Ahmaud Arbery /// 400 /// 401

92 comments

  • Kim
    Kim Atlanta
    What video was that DA watching? McMichsrls admits on the cop's cam that they chased him down once and he turned and jogged the other way to avoid them. Roddy aka Rowdy tried to block him too. They corner him a 3rd time and the son gets out of the truck with a shotgun while the Dad stands in the back with a 357. He even runs on the other side of the truck to avoid the son. C'MON .. GET REAL

    What video was that DA watching? McMichsrls admits on the cop's cam that they chased him down once and he turned and jogged the other way to avoid them. Roddy aka Rowdy tried to block him too. They corner him a 3rd time and the son gets out of the truck with a shotgun while the Dad stands in the back with a 357. He even runs on the other side of the truck to avoid the son. C'MON
    .. GET REAL

  • Steff
    Steff Parts Unknown (PU)
    One episode in, and what keeps bugging my mind is : Why Ahmaud didn't just stop and politely said "Yes, sir. Can i help you" or somekind like that when he was stopped initially. If he keeps running away from them both and just keep ingoring them, i guess the men will be spooked and did irrational stuff. It's bad of course, but I'm just keeping my foot on both sides of the story. If I didn't really pay attention during some part, and if Ahmaud really DID politely asked them why they're stopping them, I'm sorry for my mistake, and i think the shooters were at fault. Cheers :)

    One episode in, and what keeps bugging my mind is :

    Why Ahmaud didn't just stop and politely said "Yes, sir. Can i help you" or somekind like that when he was stopped initially. If he keeps running away from them both and just keep ingoring them, i guess the men will be spooked and did irrational stuff. It's bad of course, but I'm just keeping my foot on both sides of the story.

    If I didn't really pay attention during some part, and if Ahmaud really DID politely asked them why they're stopping them, I'm sorry for my mistake, and i think the shooters were at fault.

    Cheers smile

  • Eric
    Eric Chicago
    Despite accounting for only 13% of the population.....

    Despite accounting for only 13% of the population.....

  • K
    K Northern VA
    The owner of the OPEN home that Ahmaud was seen on video entering made a statement that they had no problem with Ahmaud and that he did NOT steal anything. Also, just want to point out that even a SUSPECTED BURGLARY is not grounds for MURDER.

    The owner of the OPEN home that Ahmaud was seen on video entering made a statement that they had no problem with Ahmaud and that he did NOT steal anything.
    Also, just want to point out that even a SUSPECTED BURGLARY is not grounds for MURDER.

  • Sherry
    Sherry Indiana
    The law only allowed them to make a citizen’s arrest if they actually witnessed a felony. They did not. They seemed to believe that they had a right to detain Ahmaud simply because they saw him in the house. People walk in and out of houses under construction all the time. It’s not a reason to make a citizen’s arrest. Also, if these perpetrators had been black, they would have been arrested for the shooting right away. The dad’s connection to LE is why they got a pass.

    The law only allowed them to make a citizen’s arrest if they actually witnessed a felony. They did not. They seemed to believe that they had a right to detain Ahmaud simply because they saw him in the house. People walk in and out of houses under construction all the time. It’s not a reason to make a citizen’s arrest. Also, if these perpetrators had been black, they would have been arrested for the shooting right away. The dad’s connection to LE is why they got a pass.

  • Jovan
    Jovan Ontario
    If you're going to hunt down a black man and kill him just for fun, are you going to get on the call to 911 while you're doing it and film the whole thing for posterity? It's ridiculous that people are falling for this race-baiting BS. You even have a video and you still believe that America is the most racist place and we have to absolve our sins. The law allows them to make a citizen's arrest if there is reasonable grounds for suspicion, which in their mind there was, and I agree with them. They're open carrying and NOT pointing the guns at him. Also perfectly legal. They keep telling him to stop and keep calling out to him and he keeps running. It hits the fan only once he stops running away and runs towards the guy holding a shotgun, and even then not until he reaches him. Heartbreaking, but textbook justifiable homicide.

    If you're going to hunt down a black man and kill him just for fun, are you going to get on the call to 911 while you're doing it and film the whole thing for posterity?

    It's ridiculous that people are falling for this race-baiting BS. You even have a video and you still believe that America is the most racist place and we have to absolve our sins.

    The law allows them to make a citizen's arrest if there is reasonable grounds for suspicion, which in their mind there was, and I agree with them. They're open carrying and NOT pointing the guns at him. Also perfectly legal. They keep telling him to stop and keep calling out to him and he keeps running. It hits the fan only once he stops running away and runs towards the guy holding a shotgun, and even then not until he reaches him. Heartbreaking, but textbook justifiable homicide.

  • Carla
    Carla Seattle, WA
    Thank you for covering this now, EVERYONE needs to know about it!

    Thank you for covering this now, EVERYONE needs to know about it!

  • Joan
    Joan Massachusetts
    I love you guys, but come on. What you (we) should be talking about is what is truly criminal: (a) laws that allow people to carry guns (full stop) and make citizens arrests; and (b) the fact that it is almost always men of color who get slaughtered; (c) aggressive (to be charitable), entitled white men are able to justify what in my mind is in no way justifiable--pursuing a young man because they "think" he is a criminal. I mean, afterall, don't all black men look the same? And, yes, I mean that ironically and with great sadness. Such an unnecessary tragedy. I don't think I can stomach listening to the second episode on this barbaric act.

    I love you guys, but come on. What you (we) should be talking about is what is truly criminal: (a) laws that allow people to carry guns (full stop) and make citizens arrests; and (b) the fact that it is almost always men of color who get slaughtered; (c) aggressive (to be charitable), entitled white men are able to justify what in my mind is in no way justifiable--pursuing a young man because they "think" he is a criminal. I mean, afterall, don't all black men look the same? And, yes, I mean that ironically and with great sadness. Such an unnecessary tragedy. I don't think I can stomach listening to the second episode on this barbaric act.

  • Afua
    Afua Brooklyn
    The story about him being in the house was that he was there for water. Also the sister of the shooter records the body of Aubrey after he is dead. This is evident of racial and maybe even psychotic behavior. There is no agenda when historically the matter of a black man or woman is being chased by violent white men has happened countless times since slavery. This is a Black lives Matter issue!!

    The story about him being in the house was that he was there for water. Also the sister of the shooter records the body of Aubrey after he is dead. This is evident of racial and maybe even psychotic behavior. There is no agenda when historically the matter of a black man or woman is being chased by violent white men has happened countless times since slavery. This is a Black lives Matter issue!!

  • Paula
    Paula Michigan
    Does anyone know if Roddy followed the father/son duo directly from their home? I want to know. If he did, why didn’t he ride with them? He wanted to tape from afar? If he didn’t, and the father or son called him, how were they able to give a location to him and not to dispatch? Answers please- I’m going crazy over this thought. Thanks 😊

    Does anyone know if Roddy followed the father/son duo directly from their home? I want to know.
    If he did, why didn’t he ride with them? He wanted to tape from afar?
    If he didn’t, and the father or son called him, how were they able to give a location to him and not to dispatch?
    Answers please- I’m going crazy over this thought. Thanks 😊

  • Ana
    Ana Indiana
    Same I definitely felt on the fence about this one, torn between if it was an intended "murder" or just simply a situation that escalated and ended up in a tragic death.

    Same I definitely felt on the fence about this one, torn between if it was an intended "murder" or just simply a situation that escalated and ended up in a tragic death.

  • Sammie
    Sammie Ky
    They have to see him in the middle of a crime in order to make a citizen's arrest. There was no crime there for there should have never been a citizen's arrest. They were simply looking for black man to shoot and they found one. You cannot defend these aholes. I hope they enjoy their entire life in prison.

    They have to see him in the middle of a crime in order to make a citizen's arrest. There was no crime there for there should have never been a citizen's arrest. They were simply looking for black man to shoot and they found one. You cannot defend these aholes. I hope they enjoy their entire life in prison.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    This is absolutely a black lives matter issue. To be clear though - it has been stated that he may have been in the house for water. This is a theory that truly holds just as much or as little weight as some others as to why he may have been in the home. Regardless of why he was in the home, he should not have been killed, obviously. I don't even think that the McMichaels and Bryan had cause to pursue him, stop him or detain him. That's why I think this makes these three the aggressors and then gave Ahmaud the right to defend himself. The McMichaels being the aggressors don't get the same right to defend. I hope this goes before a good and fair judge and jury. This was a tough case to present and I appreciate everyone listening and the feedback. We felt compelled to tell this story and weigh in. Best to all - Nic

    This is absolutely a black lives matter issue. To be clear though - it has been stated that he may have been in the house for water. This is a theory that truly holds just as much or as little weight as some others as to why he may have been in the home. Regardless of why he was in the home, he should not have been killed, obviously. I don't even think that the McMichaels and Bryan had cause to pursue him, stop him or detain him. That's why I think this makes these three the aggressors and then gave Ahmaud the right to defend himself. The McMichaels being the aggressors don't get the same right to defend. I hope this goes before a good and fair judge and jury.
    This was a tough case to present and I appreciate everyone listening and the feedback. We felt compelled to tell this story and weigh in.
    Best to all - Nic

  • EB
    EB NY
    Done. You guys are blind to your own white boy privilege. And I’m white, and I recognize this disease. You are all over the map, trying to CYA, and if you were really interested in covering the story with accuracy, maybe you should have waited and taken your time to think it through. Your “logic” is all over the map. You both left out facts covered by the NYT (Nic, you cite the NYT but honestly did you actually follow the reporting closely?) Ridiculous. You want to make it a “both sides” issue, which is very popular with the dope in charge these days. Was a long time fan. No longer.

    Done. You guys are blind to your own white boy privilege. And I’m white, and I recognize this disease. You are all over the map, trying to CYA, and if you were really interested in covering the story with accuracy, maybe you should have waited and taken your time to think it through. Your “logic” is all over the map. You both left out facts covered by the NYT (Nic, you cite the NYT but honestly did you actually follow the reporting closely?)

    Ridiculous. You want to make it a “both sides” issue, which is very popular with the dope in charge these days.

    Was a long time fan. No longer.

  • Sarah
    Sarah Alabama
    Just to respond to Steff in Parts Unknown, the McMichaels had absolutely no authority to tell Ahmaud to stop on a public sidewalk or to chase him. Honestly, if someone is pursuing me on the street, whether or not I see a gun, I'm not going to stop and politely ask them what they want. I'm gonna try to get the hell away.

    Just to respond to Steff in Parts Unknown, the McMichaels had absolutely no authority to tell Ahmaud to stop on a public sidewalk or to chase him. Honestly, if someone is pursuing me on the street, whether or not I see a gun, I'm not going to stop and politely ask them what they want. I'm gonna try to get the hell away.

  • sunny
    sunny canada
    Joan, i hope you did decide to skip the second episode. How anyone can look at this case and the state of things in general and be pissed off about an "agenda" being pushed is beyond me. This is not being made up or imagined, these things ARE happening. This week alone has enough FILMED evidence of the huge problem racism still is. And if you're going to talk about Ahmaud being on probation (a fact that these noble citizens with gunz could know how...?) why not talk about the accounts of former classmates of the shooter that he was always a raging racist and how they're not surprised something like this happened. We all know Nic is the brains of the operation but I can usually appreciate the captain's input, this one though...nope.

    Joan, i hope you did decide to skip the second episode. How anyone can look at this case and the state of things in general and be pissed off about an "agenda" being pushed is beyond me. This is not being made up or imagined, these things ARE happening. This week alone has enough FILMED evidence of the huge problem racism still is.
    And if you're going to talk about Ahmaud being on probation (a fact that these noble citizens with gunz could know how...?) why not talk about the accounts of former classmates of the shooter that he was always a raging racist and how they're not surprised something like this happened.
    We all know Nic is the brains of the operation but I can usually appreciate the captain's input, this one though...nope.

  • Dominique
    Dominique Parts Unknown
    I have now listened to both episodes even though I said I was not because i was going to get upset and here I am upset. With out going down a full list on the internet about what I am upset I just wanted to clear something up. It is quite possible for Mr Arbery to have been jogging/running 10 miles from his home. My husband and a few of his buddies run 10-20 miles every other day their longer stretches being on the weekend because they have more time to run it. One of our close friends, on occasion will run a hiking trail up a mountain that is 8 miles (4 up and 4 down) all before he goes to work in the morning. So its quite possible for him to be living his best life trying to jog and stay in shape on such a nice day for it. Those men had no right to approach him. and to the comment above as to why Mr Arbery didnt just stop and say "whats the problem?" why should he? he doesnt have to talk to strangers if he does not want to. Especially strangers that are chasing him a vehicle . I know I would not have stopped at all! Especially in the deep south. Those men should have called the police if they felt he was robbing a house instead of trying to be the police THATS what should have happened. If they didnt feel the need to play police officer that day Mr Arbery would not be on the pavement

    I have now listened to both episodes even though I said I was not because i was going to get upset and here I am upset. With out going down a full list on the internet about what I am upset I just wanted to clear something up. It is quite possible for Mr Arbery to have been jogging/running 10 miles from his home. My husband and a few of his buddies run 10-20 miles every other day their longer stretches being on the weekend because they have more time to run it. One of our close friends, on occasion will run a hiking trail up a mountain that is 8 miles (4 up and 4 down) all before he goes to work in the morning. So its quite possible for him to be living his best life trying to jog and stay in shape on such a nice day for it. Those men had no right to approach him.

    and to the comment above as to why Mr Arbery didnt just stop and say "whats the problem?" why should he? he doesnt have to talk to strangers if he does not want to. Especially strangers that are chasing him a vehicle . I know I would not have stopped at all! Especially in the deep south. Those men should have called the police if they felt he was robbing a house instead of trying to be the police THATS what should have happened. If they didnt feel the need to play police officer that day Mr Arbery would not be on the pavement

  • Justene
    Justene MN
    I keep coming back to the fact that this was 10 miles away from his house. I don't get it? Doesn't this seem strange? I don't understand how or why he was there.

    I keep coming back to the fact that this was 10 miles away from his house. I don't get it? Doesn't this seem strange? I don't understand how or why he was there.

  • Annabelle Porter
    Annabelle Porter
    This was a truly awful take on this show. Two white men sitting around debating on how to find truth about a black man that was murdered, trying to change the motive to something a little more white washed. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool.

    This was a truly awful take on this show. Two white men sitting around debating on how to find truth about a black man that was murdered, trying to change the motive to something a little more white washed. Cool.

    Cool. Cool. Cool.

  • Sharon
    Sharon RVA
    Just a thought for the 2 posters who mention Arbery stopping to address the 3 men attempting to arrest him. If 3 random men with guns are shouting at you, and holding weapons, are you seriously going to stop and ask them politely what they want? Just imagine yourself as a young black male facing this situation. Arbery was not obligated in any way to listen or obey them. As a middle aged white woman with all the privilege in the world, I would have hauled *ss in the opposite direction. NO WAY would I have stopped and tried to address these people. Respectfully, the only agenda the majority of people have with this case is to try to ensure that black people have the same rights to do things that we white folks take for granted, without getting killed for it. Just as a comparison, my 25 year old white daughter drives to a different neighborhood to jog, about 7 miles away from her apartment. She has the normal fears all women have when we are out and about, but she doesn't really worry about being chased down and confronted by 3 angry white men.

    Just a thought for the 2 posters who mention Arbery stopping to address the 3 men attempting to arrest him. If 3 random men with guns are shouting at you, and holding weapons, are you seriously going to stop and ask them politely what they want? Just imagine yourself as a young black male facing this situation. Arbery was not obligated in any way to listen or obey them. As a middle aged white woman with all the privilege in the world, I would have hauled *ss in the opposite direction. NO WAY would I have stopped and tried to address these people.

    Respectfully, the only agenda the majority of people have with this case is to try to ensure that black people have the same rights to do things that we white folks take for granted, without getting killed for it. Just as a comparison, my 25 year old white daughter drives to a different neighborhood to jog, about 7 miles away from her apartment. She has the normal fears all women have when we are out and about, but she doesn't really worry about being chased down and confronted by 3 angry white men.

  • Tracy
    Tracy Sunshine Coast, Australia
    I can hardly find the words to express how sad this makes me. As a parent, as a woman of colour, as a HUMAN BEING I am infuriated that this a) happens at all and then b) is left untouched for months whilst a family, a nation, a race grieves. I am as angered as the Captain, the excuses, and that it is allowed even for a moment is unfathomable.

    I can hardly find the words to express how sad this makes me. As a parent, as a woman of colour, as a HUMAN BEING I am infuriated that this a) happens at all and then b) is left untouched for months whilst a family, a nation, a race grieves. I am as angered as the Captain, the excuses, and that it is allowed even for a moment is unfathomable.

  • Ben
    Ben Nashville
    Just by what I PERSONALLY see in the video, and by what Cap’n and Nic explained about Georgia open carry law, here’s the simplest way I can express my worthless thoughts- FROM THE VIDEO I see a man running down the street in the direction of a parked vehicle. Then I see the same man run PAST the vehicle, and (obviously INTENDING)make a 90 turn towards(the opposite of “away from”)a legally armed man, and begin to (INTENTIONALLY)cause bodily harm to him and (INTENTIONALLY ) disarm him.Maybe the armed man fired in self-defense, maybe the gun went off accidentally during the struggle. Either way, both men(the killer and the killed) were in the road legally and lawfully, up until the moment of the assault. Everything prior to that is irrelevant. No matter why the man was running, no matter why the truck was in the road, no matter who used to work where, no matter who has been on which side of law enforcement before-DO NOT ATTACK AN ARMED CITIZEN. To Nic- you mentioned and incident with your neighbor’s house, if the person trying to climb in the window suddenly charged at you and began beating you and trying to take your”backup” out of your hands-would you risk your life just to contemplate what his intent was, or would you act on your intent to survive? To Cap’n- I like you better when you’re drinking beer instead of drinking the kool aid 399 awesome True Crime episodes 1 seriously shitty Current Political Events episode Please stay away from the mass media hype material that divides us, and stick the the cannibalism/necrophilia/pedophila/beastiality stories that unite us Truly Disappointed, but still super supportive, Ben

    Just by what I PERSONALLY see in the video, and by what Cap’n and Nic explained about Georgia open carry law, here’s the simplest way I can express my worthless thoughts- FROM THE VIDEO I see a man running down the street in the direction of a parked vehicle. Then I see the same man run PAST the vehicle, and (obviously INTENDING)make a 90 turn towards(the opposite of “away from”)a legally armed man, and begin to (INTENTIONALLY)cause bodily harm to him and (INTENTIONALLY ) disarm him.Maybe the armed man fired in self-defense, maybe the gun went off accidentally during the struggle. Either way, both men(the killer and the killed) were in the road legally and lawfully, up until the moment of the assault. Everything prior to that is irrelevant. No matter why the man was running, no matter why the truck was in the road, no matter who used to work where, no matter who has been on which side of law enforcement before-DO NOT ATTACK AN ARMED CITIZEN.
    To Nic- you mentioned and incident with your neighbor’s house, if the person trying to climb in the window suddenly charged at you and began beating you and trying to take your”backup” out of your hands-would you risk your life just to contemplate what his intent was, or would you act on your intent to survive?
    To Cap’n- I like you better when you’re drinking beer instead of drinking the kool aid

    399 awesome True Crime episodes
    1 seriously shitty Current Political Events episode
    Please stay away from the mass media hype material that divides us, and stick the the cannibalism/necrophilia/pedophila/beastiality stories that unite us
    Truly Disappointed, but still super supportive,
    Ben

  • STEF with one F
    STEF with one F
    I think the guys that killed this young man were within the law or the right that was given to them by the state of Georgia. That does not mean I agree with their actions. I also think they would have done the same thing if it was a white guy. Sometimes, folks are just out for justice and breaking the law doesn't have a shade of gray. I mean that in a general way, I don't think justice means killing someone. Also, I didn't even know that citizens arrest was a thing! I've heard of it, but I thought citizens arrest was only enforced during a martial law type situation. I truthfully feel that we are going to see more of this "vigilante justice" in our communities unless we start getting tougher on crime. Even if a person were on probation and got caught from stealing from that property, that person likely would have been booked and released anyway. Protect and serve from law enforcement is a joke. I don't think law enforcement is protecting anyone when they arrest the same ole burglar every other week. I frequently look at the arrest bookings in my county. I REALLY want to know, how many times can a person get caught with forgery instruments, stolen cars, receiving stolen property, DUI, controlled substances, and possessing a firearm, etc before they actually do any time. I see the same persons booked over and over and over again for the same crimes. Additionally, how much of our financial resources are going to putting cops on the beat, just to rearrest the same offenders repeatedly. Personally, I would never approach someone breaking the law. In my experience, there are a bunch of folks out there that are on drugs, or suffering from mental illness. Thanks for talking about this difficult case. I read all of the previous comments, and having these discussions is the smartest thing we can do to learn how to make our communities safer for all of us.

    I think the guys that killed this young man were within the law or the right that was given to them by the state of Georgia. That does not mean I agree with their actions. I also think they would have done the same thing if it was a white guy. Sometimes, folks are just out for justice and breaking the law doesn't have a shade of gray. I mean that in a general way, I don't think justice means killing someone. Also, I didn't even know that citizens arrest was a thing! I've heard of it, but I thought citizens arrest was only enforced during a martial law type situation.

    I truthfully feel that we are going to see more of this "vigilante justice" in our communities unless we start getting tougher on crime. Even if a person were on probation and got caught from stealing from that property, that person likely would have been booked and released anyway.

    Protect and serve from law enforcement is a joke. I don't think law enforcement is protecting anyone when they arrest the same ole burglar every other week. I frequently look at the arrest bookings in my county. I REALLY want to know, how many times can a person get caught with forgery instruments, stolen cars, receiving stolen property, DUI, controlled substances, and possessing a firearm, etc before they actually do any time. I see the same persons booked over and over and over again for the same crimes. Additionally, how much of our financial resources are going to putting cops on the beat, just to rearrest the same offenders repeatedly.

    Personally, I would never approach someone breaking the law. In my experience, there are a bunch of folks out there that are on drugs, or suffering from mental illness.

    Thanks for talking about this difficult case. I read all of the previous comments, and having these discussions is the smartest thing we can do to learn how to make our communities safer for all of us.

  • Carolyn
    Carolyn Canada
    You guys have done a terrible job presenting this case. Such a clear case of racism and you gloss over that over and over again. Really disappointed. Have beer and don’t be racist.

    You guys have done a terrible job presenting this case. Such a clear case of racism and you gloss over that over and over again. Really disappointed. Have beer and don’t be racist.

  • Faye
    Faye Oklahoma
    I think you over simplified the implications that could have arisen in the event that the police showed up. Time and time again it’s being proven that black men are far from safe, even in misdemeanor crimes, with officers of the law. It’s your white privilege that seems to be making you think that law enforcement would behave fairly in this situation. As a reminder one of the perpetrators WAS law enforcement in this area. His prejudice, based on even the DA’s comments, was not singular. No one is forcing an agenda on this. This behavior is real and problematic.

    I think you over simplified the implications that could have arisen in the event that the police showed up. Time and time again it’s being proven that black men are far from safe, even in misdemeanor crimes, with officers of the law. It’s your white privilege that seems to be making you think that law enforcement would behave fairly in this situation. As a reminder one of the perpetrators WAS law enforcement in this area. His prejudice, based on even the DA’s comments, was not singular.
    No one is forcing an agenda on this. This behavior is real and problematic.

  • Cindy
    Cindy Boise
    I appreciate your varied perspectives, but one key factor to mention is that the senior McMichaels was a retired professional policeman and investigator. He should know protocol, to give a warning shot and how to use restraint. He was not an amateur, which lends credence to ulterior motivations on his part. He would know to immediately call 911 for assistance upon leaving his domicile indicating direction traveled and street names. He should have counseled his son to remain in the vehicle and under no circumstances escalate the situation by leaving the truck with gun in hand. Both men left their home armed and ready for a confrontation. His background record should be a key factor in determining if this was intentional hunting down and homicide or a 'citizens arrest.' Thank you.

    I appreciate your varied perspectives, but one key factor to mention is that the senior McMichaels was a retired professional policeman and investigator. He should know protocol, to give a warning shot and how to use restraint. He was not an amateur, which lends credence to ulterior motivations on his part. He would know to immediately call 911 for assistance upon leaving his domicile indicating direction traveled and street names. He should have counseled his son to remain in the vehicle and under no circumstances escalate the situation by leaving the truck with gun in hand. Both men left their home armed and ready for a confrontation. His background record should be a key factor in determining if this was intentional hunting down and homicide or a 'citizens arrest.' Thank you.

  • Shawna
    Shawna Parts Unknows
    I respect you guys for taking this on... But, YIKES! So many problematic statements. Captain saying he would have stopped? Cool. He's not a young, black man in suburban GA. Others attaching their own agendas to this incident? Black people see a different version of this same story on the news every week, and they are tired of it. I don't know for a fact that a white man coming out of that unoccupied house would have been approached in a completely different manner, I just know it's true. The murderers don't have to be wearing hoods for this incident to be considered a lynching. It's far too easy for us white people to say, "Why do 'they' always have to make it a race issue?" It's because we're used to the luxury of not being defined by the color of our skin. I'm not going to quit listening, but I will listen with a different ear. This is an opportunity to gain some perspective, to see the world through a different set of eyes. Walk in Ahmaud's shoes and recognize that a black kid in Georgia may have a completely different world view than the son of a white police officer in Ohio. They may even have a different different response to some gun-wielding white boys in a pickup truck.

    I respect you guys for taking this on... But, YIKES! So many problematic statements. Captain saying he would have stopped? Cool. He's not a young, black man in suburban GA. Others attaching their own agendas to this incident? Black people see a different version of this same story on the news every week, and they are tired of it. I don't know for a fact that a white man coming out of that unoccupied house would have been approached in a completely different manner, I just know it's true. The murderers don't have to be wearing hoods for this incident to be considered a lynching. It's far too easy for us white people to say, "Why do 'they' always have to make it a race issue?" It's because we're used to the luxury of not being defined by the color of our skin.

    I'm not going to quit listening, but I will listen with a different ear. This is an opportunity to gain some perspective, to see the world through a different set of eyes. Walk in Ahmaud's shoes and recognize that a black kid in Georgia may have a completely different world view than the son of a white police officer in Ohio. They may even have a different different response to some gun-wielding white boys in a pickup truck.

  • Sarah Aitken
    Sarah Aitken Qatar
    We have a pretty strict lockdown going on so I’m listening to lots of true crime podcasts. In so many US cases the thing I always think as a Brit is, just imagine if everyone wasn’t running around with a gun! Things get out of hand very quickly on very trivial matters when you introduce a firearm into the mix. This case is desperately sad.

    We have a pretty strict lockdown going on so I’m listening to lots of true crime podcasts. In so many US cases the thing I always think as a Brit is, just imagine if everyone wasn’t running around with a gun! Things get out of hand very quickly on very trivial matters when you introduce a firearm into the mix. This case is desperately sad.

  • Cliff
    Cliff Georgia
    Nic and Captain, I love True Crime Garage. It's the best show available. I would like to comment on entering a property or a house. My subdivision has numerous homes under construction. I never enter those homes because in my mind it's still private property. But, I do think there is some leeway on entry *IF* there is a real estate sign posted on the property during the construction phase since the house is a speculative sale. In my opinion the real estate company would probably anticipate individuals entering and inspecting the home. This vastly differs from a custom home being built by a private property owner. Under no circumstances should anyone enter the property or the home. In my opinion this is trespassing and burglary.

    Nic and Captain, I love True Crime Garage. It's the best show available. I would like to comment on entering a property or a house. My subdivision has numerous homes under construction. I never enter those homes because in my mind it's still private property. But, I do think there is some leeway on entry *IF* there is a real estate sign posted on the property during the construction phase since the house is a speculative sale. In my opinion the real estate company would probably anticipate individuals entering and inspecting the home. This vastly differs from a custom home being built by a private property owner. Under no circumstances should anyone enter the property or the home. In my opinion this is trespassing and burglary.

  • Elise
    Elise France
    When you’re black and two white guys with guns are chasing you, you’re never going to stop, really. That’s death for sure

    When you’re black and two white guys with guns are chasing you, you’re never going to stop, really. That’s death for sure

  • Enki
    Enki Belgium
    It just blows my mind that in the US you can say and getvaway with "I chased after and cornered this guy with my guns. He tried to defend himself from me threatening him with a gun, so i had to shoot him in self-defense." Does that mean Ahmaud couldve shot them in self-defense - sounds like a threatening situation for him. Why dont they just do what the police operator said or drove after him keeping the operator up to date where their "suspect" was going? Absolutely crazy.

    It just blows my mind that in the US you can say and getvaway with "I chased after and cornered this guy with my guns. He tried to defend himself from me threatening him with a gun, so i had to shoot him in self-defense." Does that mean Ahmaud couldve shot them in self-defense - sounds like a threatening situation for him. Why dont they just do what the police operator said or drove after him keeping the operator up to date where their "suspect" was going? Absolutely crazy.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hello all, In a quick rebuttal... I totally get that Greg M was former LE but regardless he was not that day, he was a citizen that from my perspective had little to no reason to pursue Ahmaud. And keep in mind the shot fired came from the gun of Travis who is not former LE. I cannot say 100% that LE would have handled this fairly, why would anyone make that assumption? That's what our tax dollars go to. The general idea is set up for LE to handle things fairly. Sometimes the human element gets in the way but again society has decided that policing is their job and not the McMichael's or WB's. I won't comment on everything here but with a blanket statement. I left a comment on page 2, if anyone would like to read that. But my general statement is - I appreciate all of the comments both pro garage and anti garage. This is a case and story that can easily divide a room and a Garage. Again I think its best that these matters are sorted out in court. Cheers to all - Nic

    Hello all,
    In a quick rebuttal...
    I totally get that Greg M was former LE but regardless he was not that day, he was a citizen that from my perspective had little to no reason to pursue Ahmaud. And keep in mind the shot fired came from the gun of Travis who is not former LE. I cannot say 100% that LE would have handled this fairly, why would anyone make that assumption? That's what our tax dollars go to. The general idea is set up for LE to handle things fairly. Sometimes the human element gets in the way but again society has decided that policing is their job and not the McMichael's or WB's.
    I won't comment on everything here but with a blanket statement. I left a comment on page 2, if anyone would like to read that. But my general statement is - I appreciate all of the comments both pro garage and anti garage. This is a case and story that can easily divide a room and a Garage. Again I think its best that these matters are sorted out in court.
    Cheers to all - Nic

  • Amy
    Amy MO
    thank you guys again for doing this story! i TOTALLY AGREE with you Captain about the speculation. i hate it! i want to know the FACTS. and it DOES NOT MATTER HIS BACKGROUND OR THAT HE WAS IN A HOUSE OR THAT HE RAN FROM THOSE GUYS. he did not deserve to die. all of that shit is IRRELEVANT!!!

    thank you guys again for doing this story! i TOTALLY AGREE with you Captain about the speculation. i hate it! i want to know the FACTS. and it DOES NOT MATTER HIS BACKGROUND OR THAT HE WAS IN A HOUSE OR THAT HE RAN FROM THOSE GUYS. he did not deserve to die. all of that shit is IRRELEVANT!!!

  • Jessica
    Jessica Maryland
    I was a long time listener but not anymore.I want to know what “agenda”was being pushed?There are countless times that black men and black boys have been targeted and killed by the hands of white men and police officers.This has racism written all over it.You both say you are going to wait for the court to decide.I as a black women have no trust in the court system to bring charges against the men who killed Ahmaud.Does the names Sandra Bland,Philando Castile, and Trayvon Martin ring a bell? I think you two should have left this case alone.You barely cover people of color on your podcast.Im sorry but you two were dead wrong to discuss this case on the podcast.

    I was a long time listener but not anymore.I want to know what “agenda”was being pushed?There are countless times that black men and black boys have been targeted and killed by the hands of white men and police officers.This has racism written all over it.You both say you are going to wait for the court to decide.I as a black women have no trust in the court system to bring charges against the men who killed Ahmaud.Does the names Sandra Bland,Philando Castile, and Trayvon Martin ring a bell?
    I think you two should have left this case alone.You barely cover people of color on your podcast.Im sorry but you two were dead wrong to discuss this case on the podcast.

  • Elaine
    Elaine CA
    I don't ever go on to comment on these sites but just totally felt the need to in this case. They have released video showing multiple people including couples etc entering the home and looking around, including at night. None of those people were chased down or had the police called on them, so this completely disproves the "if he were white the same thing would've happened". I can promise you if those men were going for a run and someone stopped them all hell would break loose and any reactionary action they took would be called justified as they feared for their life. Those men put themselves in the situation by continuing to chase them even though police were already called. Open carry or not, it is still illegal for you to point a gun at someone without legal justification and they had absolutely no justification. Ahmaud Arbery's history is irrelevant, if they were in a court of law it would be thrown out due to seeming prejudicial. This is America and people defending others abilities to go around carrying a gun while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Ahmaud had a right to go running without being cornered. Imagine a white man being stopped by black guys carrying guns, that would be the biggest story all over the newspaper. My last point I would like to make is addressing the Captain saying there is no proof these guys are racist because we don't know if they jumped up and clapped after their killed a black man. That's an absurd statement, racism displays itself in many different ways, you saying the fact that did not display the most aggressive showing of racism shows we can't judge is a completely ignorant statement. You're also leaving out one very important fact that not only was the behavior of those 2 (possibly 3) men absolutely done in the name of racism so was the prosecutors response in deciding not to pursue charges. The man was unarmed had nothing on his person, was on foot, these other men were in their vehicles taking their guns intentionally, how in the hell were they not charged?? Oh that's right because the story of black man scary white man innocent is exactly the type of BS reasoning that gets used. 100% this would not have happened if he were white. Why does he owe them an explanation for anything? Even as a woman I can tell you if a man pulled his car over and said he just wanted to talk to me I would bolt in the other direction. I applaud you guys for taking on this subject, I was excited to see his name popped up because you were addressing something important, its a step in the right direction but we all still have a ways to go with understanding our privilege and just how deeply rooted racism truly runs in our country.

    I don't ever go on to comment on these sites but just totally felt the need to in this case. They have released video showing multiple people including couples etc entering the home and looking around, including at night. None of those people were chased down or had the police called on them, so this completely disproves the "if he were white the same thing would've happened". I can promise you if those men were going for a run and someone stopped them all hell would break loose and any reactionary action they took would be called justified as they feared for their life. Those men put themselves in the situation by continuing to chase them even though police were already called. Open carry or not, it is still illegal for you to point a gun at someone without legal justification and they had absolutely no justification. Ahmaud Arbery's history is irrelevant, if they were in a court of law it would be thrown out due to seeming prejudicial. This is America and people defending others abilities to go around carrying a gun while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Ahmaud had a right to go running without being cornered. Imagine a white man being stopped by black guys carrying guns, that would be the biggest story all over the newspaper. My last point I would like to make is addressing the Captain saying there is no proof these guys are racist because we don't know if they jumped up and clapped after their killed a black man. That's an absurd statement, racism displays itself in many different ways, you saying the fact that did not display the most aggressive showing of racism shows we can't judge is a completely ignorant statement. You're also leaving out one very important fact that not only was the behavior of those 2 (possibly 3) men absolutely done in the name of racism so was the prosecutors response in deciding not to pursue charges. The man was unarmed had nothing on his person, was on foot, these other men were in their vehicles taking their guns intentionally, how in the hell were they not charged?? Oh that's right because the story of black man scary white man innocent is exactly the type of BS reasoning that gets used. 100% this would not have happened if he were white. Why does he owe them an explanation for anything? Even as a woman I can tell you if a man pulled his car over and said he just wanted to talk to me I would bolt in the other direction. I applaud you guys for taking on this subject, I was excited to see his name popped up because you were addressing something important, its a step in the right direction but we all still have a ways to go with understanding our privilege and just how deeply rooted racism truly runs in our country.

  • D
    D London, UK
    To Steff (PU) who asked why didn't AA stop to talk? Just to give you an idea how someone may be feeling at a moment like that, I was in a somewhat similar situation as Ahmaud once as a stupid teenager. Long story short, I did trespass several times and mess with the neighbor's property (not stealing, just... messing with stuff to annoy the kid that lived there because I thought it would be funny to show off to my friends... like I said, stupid. I was 12). Eventually, the kid gets pissed off and rallies practically all the other kids in the neighborhood to come beat me up (I was there on vacation, so not a local and only knew a couple of the other kids). One day, they corner me about a block or so away from the house where I was staying. Initially, I tried to walk away because I've never been either big and scary or a fighter so no way in hell would I stand up to a bunch of people cornering me. Yet when 10-12 other kids (some of them clearly older than me) surrounded me and left me no space to get away, I went into fight mode. I picked out "the leader" and punched him in the face, where to that point they were only "talking to me", aka, asking why I was trespassing and messing with the kid (I didn't want to tell them, because by that point I had realized how stupid what I did was and now felt both cornered and embarrassed), although they did that in a very intimidating manner. Luckily, the dude appreciated me standing up for myself (and also the other kid looked stupid for calling everyone he knew to beat up scrawny me) and things mellowed out, but imagine if any weapons were involved. Tl;dr: if you can't run, you're going to fight, even if it's a really bad idea. You need a lot of cool to actually stop talk to two or three armed men who are chasing you in their cars. I actually want to know anyone who really thinks that would be their response to that kind of situation. It's really terrifying to see a bunch of people - in AA's case, armed - surround you like that. I can only imagine that when someone comes at you with a shotgun and two guys block your way with their cars after you've clearly been trying to get away and had not caused them any harm, to me it looks like they are very ready to use that shotgun - especially in a racially charged situation. I mean, seriously, why else are they coming at you? You didn't attack them, you were actually running away, yet three guys pick up their weapons and chase you down the street. I don't wanna stop and talk to them and I'm not even black. The dad, for having been law enforcement, sounds like he was a shit cop to begin with. This is so not how you should tackle that situation and he should've known that. You're really putting the other person on edge with your over the top response to whatever the other person did.

    To Steff (PU) who asked why didn't AA stop to talk?

    Just to give you an idea how someone may be feeling at a moment like that, I was in a somewhat similar situation as Ahmaud once as a stupid teenager. Long story short, I did trespass several times and mess with the neighbor's property (not stealing, just... messing with stuff to annoy the kid that lived there because I thought it would be funny to show off to my friends... like I said, stupid. I was 12). Eventually, the kid gets pissed off and rallies practically all the other kids in the neighborhood to come beat me up (I was there on vacation, so not a local and only knew a couple of the other kids). One day, they corner me about a block or so away from the house where I was staying. Initially, I tried to walk away because I've never been either big and scary or a fighter so no way in hell would I stand up to a bunch of people cornering me. Yet when 10-12 other kids (some of them clearly older than me) surrounded me and left me no space to get away, I went into fight mode. I picked out "the leader" and punched him in the face, where to that point they were only "talking to me", aka, asking why I was trespassing and messing with the kid (I didn't want to tell them, because by that point I had realized how stupid what I did was and now felt both cornered and embarrassed), although they did that in a very intimidating manner. Luckily, the dude appreciated me standing up for myself (and also the other kid looked stupid for calling everyone he knew to beat up scrawny me) and things mellowed out, but imagine if any weapons were involved.

    Tl;dr: if you can't run, you're going to fight, even if it's a really bad idea. You need a lot of cool to actually stop talk to two or three armed men who are chasing you in their cars. I actually want to know anyone who really thinks that would be their response to that kind of situation.

    It's really terrifying to see a bunch of people - in AA's case, armed - surround you like that. I can only imagine that when someone comes at you with a shotgun and two guys block your way with their cars after you've clearly been trying to get away and had not caused them any harm, to me it looks like they are very ready to use that shotgun - especially in a racially charged situation. I mean, seriously, why else are they coming at you? You didn't attack them, you were actually running away, yet three guys pick up their weapons and chase you down the street. I don't wanna stop and talk to them and I'm not even black. The dad, for having been law enforcement, sounds like he was a shit cop to begin with. This is so not how you should tackle that situation and he should've known that. You're really putting the other person on edge with your over the top response to whatever the other person did.

  • Amy
    Amy KY
    It may be legal to open carry in GA as it is in my state. However, one firearm fact I've always been taught is: do not draw a weapon unless you intend to use it. If strangers on a street asked me to stop, I would not, as is my right. When those people get out of the car and hold a weapon as they tell me to stop, I have to assume they are willing to use the weapon to MAKE me stop. I don't have any great options at this point. Stay: maybe I get shot, maybe kidnapped. Run: maybe shot in the back. Stand my ground: die and have people blame me for not just saying "how can I help you sir?" I am a white female. I would not have stopped for those backwoods looking guys in their pickup truck. I can only imagine a black male in the deep south would feel even more threatened given that situation. I appreciate that you guys tried to take a neutral approach to the topic.

    It may be legal to open carry in GA as it is in my state. However, one firearm fact I've always been taught is: do not draw a weapon unless you intend to use it. If strangers on a street asked me to stop, I would not, as is my right. When those people get out of the car and hold a weapon as they tell me to stop, I have to assume they are willing to use the weapon to MAKE me stop. I don't have any great options at this point. Stay: maybe I get shot, maybe kidnapped. Run: maybe shot in the back. Stand my ground: die and have people blame me for not just saying "how can I help you sir?"

    I am a white female. I would not have stopped for those backwoods looking guys in their pickup truck. I can only imagine a black male in the deep south would feel even more threatened given that situation.

    I appreciate that you guys tried to take a neutral approach to the topic.

  • Gail
    Gail Berkeley
    You were brave to tackle this one but maybe you should have waited. You both were willing to hypothesize about Ahmaud’s motives but really reluctant to hypothesize about the McMichaels being racist. We know a certain percentage of law enforcement are in it for the wrong reasons. I think, if you look at the theory that they were racist, you would find that that could explain the questions you still have. It is clear that they exaggerated the robberies in the area in their phone call to 911. I believe the gun stolen from the car was theirs - idiots to leave it in an unlocked car (and there is nothing to suggest that it wasn’t also loaded) - but certainly that had them pissed. The only account of Ahmaud “booking” it from the house is also from the McMichaels so why assume he wasn’t jogging away initially? I can only imagine how terrified he must have been.

    You were brave to tackle this one but maybe you should have waited. You both were willing to hypothesize about Ahmaud’s motives but really reluctant to hypothesize about the McMichaels being racist. We know a certain percentage of law enforcement are in it for the wrong reasons. I think, if you look at the theory that they were racist, you would find that that could explain the questions you still have. It is clear that they exaggerated the robberies in the area in their phone call to 911. I believe the gun stolen from the car was theirs - idiots to leave it in an unlocked car (and there is nothing to suggest that it wasn’t also loaded) - but certainly that had them pissed. The only account of Ahmaud “booking” it from the house is also from the McMichaels so why assume he wasn’t jogging away initially? I can only imagine how terrified he must have been.

  • Christa
    Christa Cape Cod, MA
    As a woman, I was taught at a young age to run away from any stranger trying to get you to go with them in a car. It would have been my instinct to get the hell away from three men in trucks trying to talk to me or get me to go with them. I don’t know why people say he should have just calmly gone along with them. They weren’t police, why would he stop for them? It’s commendable that you guys are trying to be balanced. But let’s take a moment to imagine this EXACT same scenario with three black men in trucks with guns confronting a white jogger (or suspected burglar). First, you might be ticked off that a gang of black men would ASSUME a 25-year-old white guy running in the neighborhood was a burglar. Then you can visualize why a young white guy surrounded by black men with guys would try to run away, then eventually fight rather than go with them. Lastly, you can imagine that three black men who killed an unarmed white guy would have been arrested quickly, not two months later.

    As a woman, I was taught at a young age to run away from any stranger trying to get you to go with them in a car. It would have been my instinct to get the hell away from three men in trucks trying to talk to me or get me to go with them. I don’t know why people say he should have just calmly gone along with them. They weren’t police, why would he stop for them?

    It’s commendable that you guys are trying to be balanced. But let’s take a moment to imagine this EXACT same scenario with three black men in trucks with guns confronting a white jogger (or suspected burglar). First, you might be ticked off that a gang of black men would ASSUME a 25-year-old white guy running in the neighborhood was a burglar. Then you can visualize why a young white guy surrounded by black men with guys would try to run away, then eventually fight rather than go with them. Lastly, you can imagine that three black men who killed an unarmed white guy would have been arrested quickly, not two months later.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous North Carolina
    I don't normally comment; I could not stay silent on this one. I usually enjoy your podcast very much, but the way you covered this was incredibly irresponsible. I've been following this case very closely (as a white woman) from "up-the-road" in North Carolina, where unfortunately scenarios like this ring far-too-true.... The "facts" you presented in the first episode (especially regarding the prosecutor(s)) completely lacked the nuance and context required to understand this situation. This includes the general climate of race-relations in the south, the idiosyncrasy of small towns, and a few very important (actual) facts including (1) the DA knew it was not a crime to be on a property with open doors and they did not actually witness any crime (ie theft) therefore the provisions around citizen arrest did not apply (2) he saw the video that does not leave much up to interpretation.(3) he was not obligated in his position to give an opinion when he recused himself (which the Captain tried to point out... hate to say he's right for once) AND (4) the police were ready to make an arrest in the case but didn't because said-prosecutor would not support it. When it comes to the reason it took so long for him to be arrested, you are missing the forest for the trees! The issue is not the technicalities themselves, but the fact that the people in power leveraged those technicalities to create the delay in the first-place based on a nepostic and corrupt local system, hoping it would all just go away. I'm not all the way through the second episode , yet (trying to figure out if I can stomach it)... but I can't get over why you can't get over the fact he was jogging??? Yes, he was jogging. From the video I saw, he looked like a jogger I would see or even be on my own run. I also run to a different neighborhood because I like the scenery and houses better. And yes, some people (not me) will run 10, 15, 20 miles on their long-run days.I can't even imagine if someone pulled up in a truck beside me yelling with guns because they didn't recognize me from their neighborhood and therefore assumed I was up to no-good? Also, who TF goes to rob a house without a vehicle or even full pants with pockets to put whatever they steal into, or a means to escape quickly? I get that maybe neither of you go for runs (although I would recommend it with all of the delicious beer you drink... it will catch up with you at some point)... I just cannot understand why the fact he was actually running would be so completely unfathomable. To respond to a couple comments on this thread, first... try to put yourself in the position of a black man in the south and white men in a truck with GUNS start to follow you and scream at you, there is NO WAY you stop and ask "can I help you?" (Heck, put yourself in the position of ANYONE out on a jog when this happens and they jump out of their truck and block you with a weapon.) The history of overt, let-alone systemic, racism in this part of the country is NO joke- especially in these rural areas. Second, the perp calling 911 makes perfect sense... gives them probable-deniability, and is (yet another) example of certain people who feel the right to weaponize law enforcement for their own -purposes (see also: Central Park Dog Woman). This is only multiplied by the fact he knew many of the people in power there, and probably felt even more secure in the fact his story would be backed up (which it was, initially). If you listen to the whole call, the dispatcher is literally asking him (and he cannot answer) what crime she can tell the officers they are reporting, and he can't tell her what crime because it is not. I can't say whether these men set out to kill someone that day; I want to believe they did not. But what I can say (as mentioned by another commenter above), the minute you pull out your weapon, you have to accept the fact you are going to use it. I learned this from my mother who was in LE. And as someone in LE, dude knew this, as did his son. Even if they did believe this person was a robber, does that justify taking a life? They chose to pursue him with guns (they accepted the fact they would use). Ergo, they had already decided this man's life was less-important than whatever property they felt he'd taken. I really do appreciate the work you do with your Podcast; however I think you are WAY out-of-your-depth on this one. It is not possible to accurately present the "facts" in a case like this without sensitivity around the systemic racial nuances of this country and especially the south. You absolutely blew through all of this with such complete disregard, it made me very sad, angry, and also insulted on the behalf of the family and all POCs. I do not think you did this story (or the victim) justice, nor the author whose work you cited (and who does understand and articulate that nuance very well). I know it is probably hard to really understand it unless you have beared witness or experienced it... so I would recommend, if covering a sensitive and, frankly, raw, topic like this in the future, perhaps including a guest who does have a little more experience in this area. So now I am trying to figure out what to do with you guys going forward. Depending on how you respond to some of the feedback shared on this thread is going to determine whether or not I continue to listen to your podcast, honestly. I leave a lot of space for people to make mistakes (goodness knows we all do) and even more space for those who are willing to own up to them.... I'm hoping you pick the latter.

    I don't normally comment; I could not stay silent on this one. I usually enjoy your podcast very much, but the way you covered this was incredibly irresponsible. I've been following this case very closely (as a white woman) from "up-the-road" in North Carolina, where unfortunately scenarios like this ring far-too-true....

    The "facts" you presented in the first episode (especially regarding the prosecutor(s)) completely lacked the nuance and context required to understand this situation. This includes the general climate of race-relations in the south, the idiosyncrasy of small towns, and a few very important (actual) facts including (1) the DA knew it was not a crime to be on a property with open doors and they did not actually witness any crime (ie theft) therefore the provisions around citizen arrest did not apply (2) he saw the video that does not leave much up to interpretation.(3) he was not obligated in his position to give an opinion when he recused himself (which the Captain tried to point out... hate to say he's right for once) AND (4) the police were ready to make an arrest in the case but didn't because said-prosecutor would not support it.

    When it comes to the reason it took so long for him to be arrested, you are missing the forest for the trees! The issue is not the technicalities themselves, but the fact that the people in power leveraged those technicalities to create the delay in the first-place based on a nepostic and corrupt local system, hoping it would all just go away.

    I'm not all the way through the second episode , yet (trying to figure out if I can stomach it)... but I can't get over why you can't get over the fact he was jogging??? Yes, he was jogging. From the video I saw, he looked like a jogger I would see or even be on my own run. I also run to a different neighborhood because I like the scenery and houses better. And yes, some people (not me) will run 10, 15, 20 miles on their long-run days.I can't even imagine if someone pulled up in a truck beside me yelling with guns because they didn't recognize me from their neighborhood and therefore assumed I was up to no-good? Also, who TF goes to rob a house without a vehicle or even full pants with pockets to put whatever they steal into, or a means to escape quickly? I get that maybe neither of you go for runs (although I would recommend it with all of the delicious beer you drink... it will catch up with you at some point)... I just cannot understand why the fact he was actually running would be so completely unfathomable.

    To respond to a couple comments on this thread, first... try to put yourself in the position of a black man in the south and white men in a truck with GUNS start to follow you and scream at you, there is NO WAY you stop and ask "can I help you?" (Heck, put yourself in the position of ANYONE out on a jog when this happens and they jump out of their truck and block you with a weapon.) The history of overt, let-alone systemic, racism in this part of the country is NO joke- especially in these rural areas. Second, the perp calling 911 makes perfect sense... gives them probable-deniability, and is (yet another) example of certain people who feel the right to weaponize law enforcement for their own -purposes (see also: Central Park Dog Woman). This is only multiplied by the fact he knew many of the people in power there, and probably felt even more secure in the fact his story would be backed up (which it was, initially). If you listen to the whole call, the dispatcher is literally asking him (and he cannot answer) what crime she can tell the officers they are reporting, and he can't tell her what crime because it is not.

    I can't say whether these men set out to kill someone that day; I want to believe they did not. But what I can say (as mentioned by another commenter above), the minute you pull out your weapon, you have to accept the fact you are going to use it. I learned this from my mother who was in LE. And as someone in LE, dude knew this, as did his son. Even if they did believe this person was a robber, does that justify taking a life? They chose to pursue him with guns (they accepted the fact they would use). Ergo, they had already decided this man's life was less-important than whatever property they felt he'd taken.

    I really do appreciate the work you do with your Podcast; however I think you are WAY out-of-your-depth on this one.

    It is not possible to accurately present the "facts" in a case like this without sensitivity around the systemic racial nuances of this country and especially the south. You absolutely blew through all of this with such complete disregard, it made me very sad, angry, and also insulted on the behalf of the family and all POCs. I do not think you did this story (or the victim) justice, nor the author whose work you cited (and who does understand and articulate that nuance very well). I know it is probably hard to really understand it unless you have beared witness or experienced it... so I would recommend, if covering a sensitive and, frankly, raw, topic like this in the future, perhaps including a guest who does have a little more experience in this area.

    So now I am trying to figure out what to do with you guys going forward. Depending on how you respond to some of the feedback shared on this thread is going to determine whether or not I continue to listen to your podcast, honestly. I leave a lot of space for people to make mistakes (goodness knows we all do) and even more space for those who are willing to own up to them.... I'm hoping you pick the latter.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    To all, Thanks for posting. I'm totally not understanding the disconnect here. How did this get lost in translation when all who oppose are speaking some form of English? We both said 100% that Ahmaud was a victim and we want justice for him and his family. I have faith in the GBI and the citizens of Georgia that will form the jury to right this wrong. Best to you all and everyone! Nic

    To all,
    Thanks for posting. I'm totally not understanding the disconnect here. How did this get lost in translation when all who oppose are speaking some form of English?
    We both said 100% that Ahmaud was a victim and we want justice for him and his family. I have faith in the GBI and the citizens of Georgia that will form the jury to right this wrong.
    Best to you all and everyone! Nic

  • Springer
    Springer Lake Elsinore CA
    My first True Crime Garage ever and I am thoroughly disappointed with they way you guys chose to “ get in “ on this case. The one thing neither of you mentioned is that Amaud is not here to tell how he felt when he was trying to flea for his life. I will never listen to another episode. If you guys are not ready to just cover race issues then leave it alone. If you can’t understand what is feels like to be a black man in the south then don’t offer your opinions. I’ve lived in Acworth GA for 10 years and Andrea Costa you did a great job stating facts on race issues.

    My first True Crime Garage ever and I am thoroughly disappointed with they way you guys chose to “ get in “ on this case. The one thing neither of you mentioned is that Amaud is not here to tell how he felt when he was trying to flea for his life. I will never listen to another episode. If you guys are not ready to just cover race issues then leave it alone. If you can’t understand what is feels like to be a black man in the south then don’t offer your opinions.
    I’ve lived in Acworth GA for 10 years and Andrea Costa you did a great job stating facts on race issues.

  • Faye
    Faye Oklahoma
    Nic, Yes, you sort of said that. But you also reprehended his response to the situation he was in, among other things. I honestly think that the whole bit about “agendas” pushed your overall view to the side because it made it sound as though you don’t believe that this was about race. The tone felt very out of touch and, truthfully, very insensitive. And, we can look to history (even recent history) to realize that having faith that the GBI gets it right is not nearly enough.

    Nic,
    Yes, you sort of said that. But you also reprehended his response to the situation he was in, among other things. I honestly think that the whole bit about “agendas” pushed your overall view to the side because it made it sound as though you don’t believe that this was about race. The tone felt very out of touch and, truthfully, very insensitive.
    And, we can look to history (even recent history) to realize that having faith that the GBI gets it right is not nearly enough.

  • Annabelle Porter
    Annabelle Porter
    How did this get lost in translation? Because you're not translating it to what people are spelling out for you. Spending two episodes debating who was right or wrong in the blatant, race fueled murder of a black man while conveniently whitewashing and removing all discussion about race so you could hide from that topic cannot be blanketed over by - OH BY THE WAY HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO DIE. You literally dug into his past, his life, his faults. You speculated if he could be stealing - so many things to explain why the murderers did what they did. If he stole is irrelevant. His "record" is irrelevant. Whether he was 100 miles or 1 mile from home is IRRELEVANT. You don't get it because you cannot get it. 60+ minutes on why how and why a black man died for NO REASON at all. Saying "He didn't deserve to die BUT this was a gone wrong citizen's arrest" without talking about how those men didn't have any cause to think he did anything besides be black is amazing. We all saw the video, we all heard the same evidence. Put a honest black person on your show with you next time to get a perspective you will never comprehend.

    How did this get lost in translation?

    Because you're not translating it to what people are spelling out for you. Spending two episodes debating who was right or wrong in the blatant, race fueled murder of a black man while conveniently whitewashing and removing all discussion about race so you could hide from that topic cannot be blanketed over by -

    OH BY THE WAY HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO DIE.

    You literally dug into his past, his life, his faults. You speculated if he could be stealing - so many things to explain why the murderers did what they did.

    If he stole is irrelevant.
    His "record" is irrelevant.
    Whether he was 100 miles or 1 mile from home is IRRELEVANT.

    You don't get it because you cannot get it. 60+ minutes on why how and why a black man died for NO REASON at all. Saying "He didn't deserve to die BUT this was a gone wrong citizen's arrest" without talking about how those men didn't have any cause to think he did anything besides be black is amazing. We all saw the video, we all heard the same evidence.

    Put a honest black person on your show with you next time to get a perspective you will never comprehend.

  • Shawna
    Shawna Parts Unknown
    To: TCG Your comment seems to make things worse. You can’t understand the disconnect? Don’t understand what got lost in translation? You are not hearing your own voices. You’ve got a comment section full of people who are repeating the same msg. I don’t think it’s the majority of posters that are missing the point. Do better.

    To: TCG Your comment seems to make things worse. You can’t understand the disconnect? Don’t understand what got lost in translation? You are not hearing your own voices. You’ve got a comment section full of people who are repeating the same msg. I don’t think it’s the majority of posters that are missing the point. Do better.

  • Pamela
    Pamela Ohio
    Listen I love you guys as a fellow Ohioan, you guys do a great job covering cases and being fair, sometimes I disagree with standpoints because of life experiences that is neither here nor there I am a avid listener. I am a 33 y/o black woman who has experienced police brutality for no reason. This was not a topic you should have touched on, you have the traditional viewpoints of a standardized privileged white person when describing this case. I do hear you both in fairness but the breakdown doesn't match the overall fact no matter what Ahmaud did in his life, No matter the background this was WRONG. There is no justification, there is no 'buts' about it. I will still listen and love you both but your OhioTrumpish viewpoints are showing towards the end where you try to justify and side with a side that has no side. I am sadly used to this because I am in corp america I deal with heavy quiet blanket racism all the time ALL the damn time. Just be mindful of your viewpoints and how it comes across....

    Listen I love you guys as a fellow Ohioan, you guys do a great job covering cases and being fair, sometimes I disagree with standpoints because of life experiences that is neither here nor there I am a avid listener. I am a 33 y/o black woman who has experienced police brutality for no reason. This was not a topic you should have touched on, you have the traditional viewpoints of a standardized privileged white person when describing this case. I do hear you both in fairness but the breakdown doesn't match the overall fact no matter what Ahmaud did in his life, No matter the background this was WRONG. There is no justification, there is no 'buts' about it. I will still listen and love you both but your OhioTrumpish viewpoints are showing towards the end where you try to justify and side with a side that has no side. I am sadly used to this because I am in corp america I deal with heavy quiet blanket racism all the time ALL the damn time. Just be mindful of your viewpoints and how it comes across....

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you Pamela for listening and posting. Cheers Nic

    Thank you Pamela for listening and posting.
    Cheers Nic

  • Justine
    Justine Michigan
    I love listening to your true crime perspectives, but you shouldn't have touched this case... facts are still coming out and there has been multiple accounts of racism, subconscious and conscious from the suspects."We cant say these people are racists" why not? These murders got there guns and followed a BLACK man - Would a white man be treated the same? Also news came out saying the neighborhood Facebook page had history of the family's racism, friends say when they heard of the homicide, "I'm surprised he didnt do it sooner". Next time you cover a case with drenched in racism, dont victim. It's annoying and insensitive to examine Ahmaud's actions when you arent a young, black, man living in America. Though you dont mention it, white people who killed an innocent, unarmed black man would rather be called a murder, than a racist. Please stop defending racism, discrimination, and white privilege b/c I love your show. Also it's ok to bring a POC and/or an activist on the show since this case is still developing. Thanks

    I love listening to your true crime perspectives, but you shouldn't have touched this case... facts are still coming out and there has been multiple accounts of racism, subconscious and conscious from the suspects."We cant say these people are racists" why not? These murders got there guns and followed a BLACK man - Would a white man be treated the same? Also news came out saying the neighborhood Facebook page had history of the family's racism, friends say when they heard of the homicide, "I'm surprised he didnt do it sooner". Next time you cover a case with drenched in racism, dont victim. It's annoying and insensitive to examine Ahmaud's actions when you arent a young, black, man living in America. Though you dont mention it, white people who killed an innocent, unarmed black man would rather be called a murder, than a racist. Please stop defending racism, discrimination, and white privilege b/c I love your show. Also it's ok to bring a POC and/or an activist on the show since this case is still developing. Thanks

  • Salla
    Salla Finland
    Hi, I understood Nic's and Captain's rant on agendas as criticism towards jumping to conclusions before all facts are in, and towards the misinformation that starts to circulate every time such a case becomes viral; That the actual facts are being twisted to support one narrative or the other, and that it frustrates them, cos they just want the truth and (for example) that making the victim an innocent choir boy if he wasn't is unnecessary because regardless of what he has done in the past, or possibly did that day, he shouldn't have been killed. However, using the word 'agenda' when talking about people just wanting to be treated equal was probably not the best idea. It sounded super dismissive even though I'm sure that was not your intention. BLM is in fact an agenda, but only cos it sadly still needs to be. It will and should be pushed as long as it's necessary and tough titties to any of us white folks getting irritated by it not always being done perfectly. Also, although victimology is important, in this case the killers are known, so it would have made more sense to concentrate primarily on their backgrounds and motives, instead of the victim's. You can't really blame the critics for pointing this out. WE ALL have some underlying biases that need to be recognised before we can start to work on them. Peace!

    Hi,

    I understood Nic's and Captain's rant on agendas as criticism towards jumping to conclusions before all facts are in, and towards the misinformation that starts to circulate every time such a case becomes viral; That the actual facts are being twisted to support one narrative or the other, and that it frustrates them, cos they just want the truth and (for example) that making the victim an innocent choir boy if he wasn't is unnecessary because regardless of what he has done in the past, or possibly did that day, he shouldn't have been killed.

    However, using the word 'agenda' when talking about people just wanting to be treated equal was probably not the best idea. It sounded super dismissive even though I'm sure that was not your intention. BLM is in fact an agenda, but only cos it sadly still needs to be. It will and should be pushed as long as it's necessary and tough titties to any of us white folks getting irritated by it not always being done perfectly.

    Also, although victimology is important, in this case the killers are known, so it would have made more sense to concentrate primarily on their backgrounds and motives, instead of the victim's. You can't really blame the critics for pointing this out. WE ALL have some underlying biases that need to be recognised before we can start to work on them. Peace!

  • mG
    mG tX
    What I have never understood about this case is, what the heck is there to steal from a house under construction? Especially if you are on foot. There is nothing of value to take, it is boards, nails and cement. I have walked through many houses under construction as I am sure many different people walked through this one in question. There is simply nothing to take unless you have a truck and forklift. So to me, the whole "crime" issue makes no sense. People don't drop off their jewelry and HD televisions while the house is being built. I understand citizens being vigilant and wanting to protect where they live from criminals, but this scenario simply did not warrant that concern, the criminal aspect was not there. OK, you want to get involved, make a call to the police and then follow the suspect until the police arrive. But to confront someone with a weapon over the fact that they were in a house under construction is insanity. Moreover, he is not carrying anything! What crime are you suspecting him of? These guys were obviously hyper-vigilant about an African American in their neighborhood, it is Georgia. And maybe Ahmaud was up to no-good (not saying he was), the actions of the father and son made no sense and most likely were a violation of Arbery's rights. Getting a conviction in this case for anything serious will be a difficult task. I think a voluntary manslaughter conviction is warranted. I don't think the father and son set out to kill him, but I think their actions brought the incident to a head and led to Arbery's death.

    What I have never understood about this case is, what the heck is there to steal from a house under construction? Especially if you are on foot. There is nothing of value to take, it is boards, nails and cement. I have walked through many houses under construction as I am sure many different people walked through this one in question. There is simply nothing to take unless you have a truck and forklift. So to me, the whole "crime" issue makes no sense. People don't drop off their jewelry and HD televisions while the house is being built. I understand citizens being vigilant and wanting to protect where they live from criminals, but this scenario simply did not warrant that concern, the criminal aspect was not there. OK, you want to get involved, make a call to the police and then follow the suspect until the police arrive. But to confront someone with a weapon over the fact that they were in a house under construction is insanity. Moreover, he is not carrying anything! What crime are you suspecting him of? These guys were obviously hyper-vigilant about an African American in their neighborhood, it is Georgia. And maybe Ahmaud was up to no-good (not saying he was), the actions of the father and son made no sense and most likely were a violation of Arbery's rights. Getting a conviction in this case for anything serious will be a difficult task. I think a voluntary manslaughter conviction is warranted. I don't think the father and son set out to kill him, but I think their actions brought the incident to a head and led to Arbery's death.

  • Cat_pickles
    Cat_pickles NC
    Ok, I’ve only listened to part one, but I have questions: 1. He, victim, had a record with police? 2. Could he have been confronting them bc they were chasing him? 3. Was CPR attempted? I mean, I’d run too if I had two men in a truck chasing me. Boy, I’d sure get passed if they were trying to block me in- be kinda scared as well. I believe you have a right to carry a gun but being responsible is most important and I wouldn’t care if one of the folks chasing me was a retired officer or not- he should’ve had enough training to know you don’t fight with a Finger on the trigger of a pulled weapon. Our legal system says innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. 🤦🏻‍♀️ A lot of hot under the collar reactions with bad/serious consequences.... my thoughts are with all involved and hope the truth comes out.

    Ok, I’ve only listened to part one, but I have questions:
    1. He, victim, had a record with police?
    2. Could he have been confronting them bc they were chasing him?
    3. Was CPR attempted?

    I mean, I’d run too if I had two men in a truck chasing me. Boy, I’d sure get passed if they were trying to block me in- be kinda scared as well. I believe you have a right to carry a gun but being responsible is most important and I wouldn’t care if one of the folks chasing me was a retired officer or not- he should’ve had enough training to know you don’t fight with a Finger on the trigger of a pulled weapon. Our legal system says innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. 🤦🏻‍♀️ A lot of hot under the collar reactions with bad/serious consequences.... my thoughts are with all involved and hope the truth comes out.

  • AlT
    AlT WPB
    You guys were way out of your depth on this one. I revered you guys. But all you showed here was that you are typical white men, with that white man entitled/presumptive experience/perspective. Like somehow you know everyone else's experience because you've lived your own lives. I'm sad and disappointed you took this one on without a black man to consult. I'm white, but I'm a woman. If I were out for a run, anywhere in the US, home or not, I'd be running as fast as I could if men in a truck, guns waving were chasing me down. Trust, I would NOT be interested/curious in what they "had to say". I would be running for my life. And if they caught up with me, I'd be fighting for my life for fear of being raped or whatever. Like, WTF are you talking about? Maybe it's time you guys got a PR consultant or something. This one was naive. It was dangerous.

    You guys were way out of your depth on this one. I revered you guys. But all you showed here was that you are typical white men, with that white man entitled/presumptive experience/perspective. Like somehow you know everyone else's experience because you've lived your own lives. I'm sad and disappointed you took this one on without a black man to consult. I'm white, but I'm a woman. If I were out for a run, anywhere in the US, home or not, I'd be running as fast as I could if men in a truck, guns waving were chasing me down. Trust, I would NOT be interested/curious in what they "had to say". I would be running for my life. And if they caught up with me, I'd be fighting for my life for fear of being raped or whatever. Like, WTF are you talking about? Maybe it's time you guys got a PR consultant or something. This one was naive. It was dangerous.

  • SuziBeth
    SuziBeth
    "Relaxing jog" I learned a new oxymoron today. :)

    "Relaxing jog"
    I learned a new oxymoron today. smile

  • SuziBeth
    SuziBeth
    Who in the hell stores thousands of dollars worth of fishing equipment at a house which is under construction?

    Who in the hell stores thousands of dollars worth of fishing equipment at a house which is under construction?

  • Kat
    Kat Texas
    TW: Mentions Violence against Persons of Color, and Sexual Assault Non-expert opinion, but I believe this is a case of racial bias. People of color (Black, Indigenous, etc.) simply are not given the benefit of the doubt in a situation and it spirals completely out of control. Regardless of what Ahmaud may or may not have been doing he didn’t deserve what happened to him. I have a question for those who are so vigorously in favor of ‘citizens arrest.’ Where are you when women are being assaulted constantly on the streets? A woman can be shoved into a car, DOOR OPEN, and raped in a busy parking lot in broad daylight - but no one will stop to help. Are most of these citizen arrest cases really about helping others or are they just jumping to conclusions in a situation where they feel in control/like they have the upper hand or power? Thank you for reading.

    TW: Mentions Violence against Persons of Color, and Sexual Assault
    Non-expert opinion, but I believe this is a case of racial bias. People of color (Black, Indigenous, etc.) simply are not given the benefit of the doubt in a situation and it spirals completely out of control. Regardless of what Ahmaud may or may not have been doing he didn’t deserve what happened to him.
    I have a question for those who are so vigorously in favor of ‘citizens arrest.’ Where are you when women are being assaulted constantly on the streets? A woman can be shoved into a car, DOOR OPEN, and raped in a busy parking lot in broad daylight - but no one will stop to help. Are most of these citizen arrest cases really about helping others or are they just jumping to conclusions in a situation where they feel in control/like they have the upper hand or power?

    Thank you for reading.

  • Aislinn
    Aislinn Ohio
    Hey Nic- You mentioned you knew about the case of the ghost blimp. Did you know that it’s gondola is still used, and it’s stored in the Goodyear blimp hangar in Akron?

    Hey Nic-
    You mentioned you knew about the case of the ghost blimp. Did you know that it’s gondola is still used, and it’s stored in the Goodyear blimp hangar in Akron?

  • Sharon
    Sharon RVA
    The disconnect, the "thing" that is getting lost in the translation is the attempt to single out the Ahmaud Arbery case as a standalone issue. You can't. It isn't. Arbery is 1619, Selma, Rodney King, Philando Castile, Freddie Gray and on, and on, and on -and most recently, George Floyd. So much of the nuance within the story was blithely disregarded, (naively, perhaps) thinking it was possible to "look at the facts". As white folks, when it comes to stories of violence against black people just trying to live their lives and getting killed for it, it is time for us to sit down, shut up, and listen. We have no spin here. We have no say. We have absolutely abdicated that right. We have prevaricated, excused, allowed ourselves to be swayed that we can't possibly be racist, we don't have that much privilege...I get that you are trying to start a conversation. I get that you are not coming from a place of malice, but rather, one of deeply held unconscious bias. I admire that you are trying to start your journey, but you lit a match under a powder keg of a story, without doing your due diligence of trying to understand ALL of the reasons this is such a powder keg. I was where you are a few years ago (without the responsibility of having such a powerful, public voice). A friend of mine's son was taking a Spring Break trip to Florida. My friend was matter-of-factly telling me all of the precautions he was telling his son to take on his trip - stay on the highway, only stop at truck stops, not local places, don't take the backroads, if you get stopped by police, keep your hands on the wheel, and be polite and cooperative...I have 2 kids. I have never even considered having this type of conversation with them. Apparently, this is a common occurrence in households of POC. I started to cry, because no one should have to have that conversation with their child, and because it brought home to me how different my life was from his, even though we worked together, had similar education levels and economic status. But because I am white, I have advantages that I am not even aware of. So I started to see, and recognize my own bias, and my own ignorance about matters of racial disparity. I hope you take this feedback, all of it, in the best possible way. I hope that you can suppress that kneejerk reaction of denial, and the anger at being labeled as something you don't see yourself as. I hope you can internalize the possibility that maybe you do have inherent bias, as we all do, and work to be better, every single day. All the best to you.

    The disconnect, the "thing" that is getting lost in the translation is the attempt to single out the Ahmaud Arbery case as a standalone issue. You can't. It isn't. Arbery is 1619, Selma, Rodney King, Philando Castile, Freddie Gray and on, and on, and on -and most recently, George Floyd. So much of the nuance within the story was blithely disregarded, (naively, perhaps) thinking it was possible to "look at the facts".

    As white folks, when it comes to stories of violence against black people just trying to live their lives and getting killed for it, it is time for us to sit down, shut up, and listen. We have no spin here. We have no say. We have absolutely abdicated that right. We have prevaricated, excused, allowed ourselves to be swayed that we can't possibly be racist, we don't have that much privilege...I get that you are trying to start a conversation. I get that you are not coming from a place of malice, but rather, one of deeply held unconscious bias. I admire that you are trying to start your journey, but you lit a match under a powder keg of a story, without doing your due diligence of trying to understand ALL of the reasons this is such a powder keg.

    I was where you are a few years ago (without the responsibility of having such a powerful, public voice). A friend of mine's son was taking a Spring Break trip to Florida. My friend was matter-of-factly telling me all of the precautions he was telling his son to take on his trip - stay on the highway, only stop at truck stops, not local places, don't take the backroads, if you get stopped by police, keep your hands on the wheel, and be polite and cooperative...I have 2 kids. I have never even considered having this type of conversation with them. Apparently, this is a common occurrence in households of POC. I started to cry, because no one should have to have that conversation with their child, and because it brought home to me how different my life was from his, even though we worked together, had similar education levels and economic status. But because I am white, I have advantages that I am not even aware of. So I started to see, and recognize my own bias, and my own ignorance about matters of racial disparity.

    I hope you take this feedback, all of it, in the best possible way. I hope that you can suppress that kneejerk reaction of denial, and the anger at being labeled as something you don't see yourself as. I hope you can internalize the possibility that maybe you do have inherent bias, as we all do, and work to be better, every single day.

    All the best to you.

  • L. Smith
    L. Smith California
    It seems the only approach to this case is from a privileged white male. Can we at least admit that your interaction with LE is 180 degrees different than a black male's interaction with LE. I appreciate your mature discussion of this case. I would like to suggest when discussing racial tensions, invite a person of color to join the conversation. We all have a lot to learn from each other.

    It seems the only approach to this case is from a privileged white male. Can we at least admit that your interaction with LE is 180 degrees different than a black male's interaction with LE.

    I appreciate your mature discussion of this case. I would like to suggest when discussing racial tensions, invite a person of color to join the conversation. We all have a lot to learn from each other.

  • Zoorkitty
    Zoorkitty WA
    Kudos for taking on such a controversial and sensitive case. Listened to part 1, saving part 2 for today. I appreciate your timing because I feel like I am analysing this as this case develop and your attempt at balancing this out. Media/Twitter tend to run with sensational aspects which may or may not be the case on closer inspection. I am sorry if I missed it but has there been a confirmation that previous entries made to the empty house were indeed Ahmad ? Also FBI/LE confirm that eye witness accounts for identifying people is HUGELY wrong. A lot of time I cant tell people apart from my own race, I still cant tell 2 separate guys in my apt block ( from my country ) apart. The father and son are not concerned citizens, as they claimed to be, they were vigilante, which never ends well.

    Kudos for taking on such a controversial and sensitive case. Listened to part 1, saving part 2 for today. I appreciate your timing because I feel like I am analysing this as this case develop and your attempt at balancing this out. Media/Twitter tend to run with sensational aspects which may or may not be the case on closer inspection. I am sorry if I missed it but has there been a confirmation that previous entries made to the empty house were indeed Ahmad ? Also FBI/LE confirm that eye witness accounts for identifying people is HUGELY wrong. A lot of time I cant tell people apart from my own race, I still cant tell 2 separate guys in my apt block ( from my country ) apart. The father and son are not concerned citizens, as they claimed to be, they were vigilante, which never ends well.

  • Me
    Me Parts unknown
    I think you two are well off base. I understand the need to not cast a judgement so close to this but how is there any doubt? Devils advocate or not here, it seems like you two are deliberately leaving a space for reasonable doubt. Let me pose the question here, (I havent read the rest of the comments here so forgive me if I step on someones toes) if this had been reversed and a bunch of black folks video recorded themselves HUNTING (because this is exactly what this was) white folks down, yall would be singing a different tune. The video speaks for itself. White america does this shit all the time. "Well what was he REALLY doing?" None of your fucking business. We operate in two very different legal systems. Black folks caught on film committing a crime, no doubt, go to jail. White folks caught on film, let's let the legal process carry itself to its natural conclusion. Get fucked. You've lost a listener.

    I think you two are well off base. I understand the need to not cast a judgement so close to this but how is there any doubt? Devils advocate or not here, it seems like you two are deliberately leaving a space for reasonable doubt. Let me pose the question here, (I havent read the rest of the comments here so forgive me if I step on someones toes) if this had been reversed and a bunch of black folks video recorded themselves HUNTING (because this is exactly what this was) white folks down, yall would be singing a different tune.

    The video speaks for itself. White america does this shit all the time. "Well what was he REALLY doing?" None of your fucking business. We operate in two very different legal systems. Black folks caught on film committing a crime, no doubt, go to jail. White folks caught on film, let's let the legal process carry itself to its natural conclusion.

    Get fucked. You've lost a listener.

  • Dani
    Dani Boston
    I’m not quite sure you guys were ready for this one.

    I’m not quite sure you guys were ready for this one.

  • scout
    scout ny
    Sorry guys. There are not two sides to this story and it is not in any way complicated. It's as simple as black and white. This was a straight-up murder and everyone knows it, even the people trying to provide pathetic excuses. Very depressing to see how many people are trying to defend cold-blooded murder. Again. I'd love to see someone ask why a white man on foot didn't stop and "politely" ask a bunch of gun-toting black men chasing him in vehicles what he could do for them. And guess what? He doesn't need a reason for being in that neighborhood, or any other. What a disgusting load of racist bile.

    Sorry guys. There are not two sides to this story and it is not in any way complicated. It's as simple as black and white. This was a straight-up murder and everyone knows it, even the people trying to provide pathetic excuses. Very depressing to see how many people are trying to defend cold-blooded murder. Again.
    I'd love to see someone ask why a white man on foot didn't stop and "politely" ask a bunch of gun-toting black men chasing him in vehicles what he could do for them. And guess what? He doesn't need a reason for being in that neighborhood, or any other.
    What a disgusting load of racist bile.

  • Gail
    Gail Berkeley
    I think you should reread Andrea from North Carolina - really thoughtful and well stated. Why the disconnect? The Capn mentioned several times his dislike of people with an agenda. Though he never clarified what this agenda is - because he prob. Realized it would sound racist (because it is). I have been listening for awhile and you are my favorite true crime podcast but there have been comments in the past, mainly about women, that made me uncomfortable. I would suggest that it would be a good idea to bring in voices of color on issues like this and an occasional female voice ( the majority of posters here appear to be female) to get other perspectives.

    I think you should reread Andrea from North Carolina - really thoughtful and well stated. Why the disconnect? The Capn mentioned several times his dislike of people with an agenda. Though he never clarified what this agenda is - because he prob. Realized it would sound racist (because it is). I have been listening for awhile and you are my favorite true crime podcast but there have been comments in the past, mainly about women, that made me uncomfortable. I would suggest that it would be a good idea to bring in voices of color on issues like this and an occasional female voice ( the majority of posters here appear to be female) to get other perspectives.

  • Angie
    Angie Michigan
    Really disappointed to see how many clearly racist people listen to this podcast.

    Really disappointed to see how many clearly racist people listen to this podcast.

  • Donnie D
    Donnie D Kentucky
    It must be a question of proof of intent compared to suspicion of intent. In Nicks experience he states that he saw a male trying enter a his neighbors home through the window during the night. With the suspicion that the guy had bad intentions, Nick picked up his gun, went outside to confront the man with his gun out of its holster. Here, Nicks explains that if the guy had ran away, he wouldn’t have chased after him. Nick doesn’t explain what he would have done if the man had charged at him with intent of physical harm. Would Nick have been justified if he shot the man? I think so.. it was later explained to Nick that the man did Not have bad intentions but instead he was given permission by the home owner to enter the home through the window. Even though the man Did not have bad intentions, If he would have charge at Nick with bad intent, Nick would have been justified in defending himself. Anyway, love the show. Keep up the great work.

    It must be a question of proof of intent compared to suspicion of intent. In Nicks experience he states that he saw a male trying enter a his neighbors home through the window during the night. With the suspicion that the guy had bad intentions, Nick picked up his gun, went outside to confront the man with his gun out of its holster. Here, Nicks explains that if the guy had ran away, he wouldn’t have chased after him. Nick doesn’t explain what he would have done if the man had charged at him with intent of physical harm. Would Nick have been justified if he shot the man? I think so.. it was later explained to Nick that the man did Not have bad intentions but instead he was given permission by the home owner to enter the home through the window. Even though the man Did not have bad intentions, If he would have charge at Nick with bad intent, Nick would have been justified in defending himself.

    Anyway, love the show. Keep up the great work.

  • Bill
    Bill PKOTM (Parts Known Only To Me)
    ....... and you thought episode #1 was a shit show!! Had to shut off part 2. Will try to finish later. You guys don’t want to speculate on any of the information, when that’s all you do on any other episode! You have a man, on probation, who thinks it’s a good idea to go into a new construction house that just happened to have been robbed once already, jogging more than 10 miles from his house, and running away......but you can’t speculate anything with that. I call BS on you guys.

    ....... and you thought episode #1 was a shit show!!

    Had to shut off part 2. Will try to finish later. You guys don’t want to speculate on any of the information, when that’s all you do on any other episode! You have a man, on probation, who thinks it’s a good idea to go into a new construction house that just happened to have been robbed once already, jogging more than 10 miles from his house, and running away......but you can’t speculate anything with that. I call BS on you guys.

  • Susan
    Susan Wayne, Illinois
    I’m glad you covered this story, it needs the discussion. I know no one really knows why Mr. Arbery went in the home, but I wanted to throw out a thought. I used to go walking with my husband’s aunt and found out when she walked on her own, she stopped in a house that was under construction every week to see the progress. I was totally surprised, never would I think this 75 year old lady was so bold. But even if she was caught, our tiny town’s police wouldn’t do much. Maybe he was curious, too. But this shooting really happened because a couple yahoos wanted to be cowboys and catch a black man. The thought of it makes my skin crawl, basically lynched him. I thought for a moment, why not stop and ask what they want? But honestly, if I was in his shoes with two POS’s in a pickup with guns yelling at me, I’d run like hell. Poor man, may he Rest In Peace 💔 PS I recently read about the murder of Dennis Day, one of the original Mouseketeers. Don’t know if there’s enough for a show, but interesting and quite a sad end for him. Cheers!!

    I’m glad you covered this story, it needs the discussion. I know no one really knows why Mr. Arbery went in the home, but I wanted to throw out a thought. I used to go walking with my husband’s aunt and found out when she walked on her own, she stopped in a house that was under construction every week to see the progress. I was totally surprised, never would I think this 75 year old lady was so bold. But even if she was caught, our tiny town’s police wouldn’t do much. Maybe he was curious, too. But this shooting really happened because a couple yahoos wanted to be cowboys and catch a black man. The thought of it makes my skin crawl, basically lynched him. I thought for a moment, why not stop and ask what they want? But honestly, if I was in his shoes with two POS’s in a pickup with guns yelling at me, I’d run like hell. Poor man, may he Rest In Peace 💔

    PS I recently read about the murder of Dennis Day, one of the original Mouseketeers. Don’t know if there’s enough for a show, but interesting and quite a sad end for him.
    Cheers!!

  • Sienna
    Sienna Akron
    Any love for Captain David Dorn killed in cold blood last night in St. Louis by rioting thugs and left to bleed to death in the street or do lives only matter when you can virtue signal for criminals? Seems that way. He was black, not that it matters.

    Any love for Captain David Dorn killed in cold blood last night in St. Louis by rioting thugs and left to bleed to death in the street or do lives only matter when you can virtue signal for criminals? Seems that way.
    He was black, not that it matters.

  • Brandie
    Brandie Manteca, CA
    Hi Gentlemen, I am a long time fan of your podcast. I almost could not make it through the second episode of Ahmaud Arbery's case. Because I feel as though you both are genuine and truly do try to work out your cases through discussion, I went ahead and continued listening. I think that especially now, maybe if you take a step back and reviewed the case, you could see why this was murder or how it can be seen as white against black. I know not all of the people commenting may not agree with me and that is ok. I hope that people will start to educate themselves and try to have a greater understanding. Here are the points that cause me to pause in listening to these episodes: Why didn't Ahmaud just stop when they approached him? He lives in the south, he is being pursued by at least 2 white men with guns. It seems pretty clear why he would continue running and not stopping. Ahmaud was on probation at the time his murder occurred. Did the McMichael's know this? No, they saw a black man running in their neighborhood and pursued him with a truck and guns. Why does it matter that McMichael's senior was in law enforcement for 24 years? Because it took 70 days for anything to happen in this case. Because there were multiple officials who had connections to the father and who were not going to pursue the case. That is until the video was leaked and people started speaking out. If the McMichael's had seen a young white man running through their neighborhood and going into the house, what do you think they would have done? How do you think they would have approached him? My guess is they would have walked over to him, called out to him, asked him what he was doing, without any weapons. They probably would have chatted it up with him and let him be on his way. The father was former law enforcement... I have to believe he had some sort of training in how to detain a suspect. I agree this "citizen's arrest" law in Georgia or any state needs to be re-evaluated. In a perfect world we would like to think, they didn't see color. They would have pursued any person walking into that house in the same way. In my heart of hearts, I don't think that is the case. Nothing that Ahmaud Arbery did that day warrant his death. Ask yourselves this, if the men were black, chasing a young white man, and shot him three times. Would it have taken 70 days for something to happen? Do you think they would have been arrested and still in jail now waiting for a trial date? Would they be charged with manslaughter? Would these same officials say they were within their right to protect themselves? It's a tough conversation, racism is a hard conversation to have. But it's here guys, in our eyes, there is no way to ignore it. It has been going on for hundreds of years. We are all entitled to our opinions and views. You are upset that people are going to use this a way to 'push their agenda", but come Captain, step back and look at this case. My heart hurts for Ahmaud's family, Breonna Taylor's family, George Floyd's family, and countless other names of black people who have lost their lives because of the color of their skin. I hope we all take some time to educate ourselves what people of color are going through and how to support. One more thing, I would like to include the posting below. My best friend's husband posted this blog describing his struggle with the current situation this country is in. He is a graduate of West Point, he served our country, he is an educator in an affluent city in the bay area. He is an amazing person and he is black. They have four children, three of which are boys. I hope you take the time to read this. It is powerful. I hope it helps you understand how some people of color are feeling right now. This Is My Race: To Be Anti-Racist and Move My Community Forward Posted on June 2, 2020 I’ve been at a loss for words, overwhelmed, anxious and tense over the last month, more so than usual. It almost feels like Baghdad in ’04. I’ve been pretty tense with leading a school through a pandemic, then the news of Ahmaud Arbery, then Breonna Taylor, then Christian Cooper, then George Floyd and the uprisings across the country and a couple towns over. I’ve been processing and trying to put into words all of my emotions while also figuring out the pace for my race to be anti-racist and move my community forward. I‘m exhausted. Since I was in middle school I’ve been trying to make sure strangers around me are comfortable. During COVID-19 going out in public in a mask doesn’t help much. I run and I race as my release. I run to clear my head, and most days it works. I like running when it’s cold, in the predawn hours, that’s what makes me comfortable. I wear more reflective gear than most would imagine, reflectors on my shoes, ankles, flashing red light on my waist, my vest, and a headlamp, to make those around me comfortable. I run through my neighborhood to clear my head, but my head is sometimes clouded with thoughts that someone may call the police because there aren’t many black men running around San Ramon period, let alone at 4 & 5am. That is part of my race. I just moved into a brand new neighborhood and they are still building houses and condos across the street. At the end of my run last week I peeked into one of the condos that’s under construction (Could my family have fit into this space instead of the one we bought?), and when I walked back across the street I thought, “What are you thinking?! You can’t do that just because you see all those other people do it.” My wife and I talked about those condos later in the day and she almost jumped out of her skin when I told her what I did. “Are you crazy!?” she exclaimed. “I know,” was my reply. Neither one of us had to say it, but we were both thinking it: Ahmaud. I ran again a couple days later. I waited until the sun was up, just to be safe. I run in the bike lane and a guy looking down at his phone swerved into the bike lane about 25 yards in front of me. I saw him looking down at his phone, but my initial reaction was, “Was that on purpose? Am I going to be the next hashtag?” That is part of my race. I think about my children. I have three black sons and a black daughter. I do not know why, but it is automatic, that I go out of my way to make sure SRPD knows who I am when I see them in the community. I have never had a negative interaction with law enforcement, but I know it only takes one time. I make sure that SRPD knows who I am when I see them in the community, and every time they are with me, I introduce my kids to them. I don’t want them to be seen as just some more black kids. That is part of my race. I’m in a professional development group with other school leaders. We take turns leading the group each week and last week was my turn. I showed a picture of my boys putting together their new bed and asked everyone to write down what they saw, and what the picture made them think about. One of our members said, “Those are beautiful boys, I hope they never have a negative encounter with the police.” I have three black sons and a black daughter. I hope they never have a negative encounter with the police, and it is my responsibility to prepare them for that possibility. It is exhausting. I’m reading Stamped (Reynolds) with my two oldest boys. We finished Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community (Dr. King) a couple months ago. They are still in elementary school. It’s been hard to explain some of the vocabulary and answer their questions, but it’s necessary for all of us to understand the history of race in America and be prepared to talk about it and become anti-racist. As a husband, father, and educator that’s what I have to do. That is part of my race. One of the biggest problems we have as a society is that we’ve avoided talking about race & racism for so long that so many of us are just plain ignorant, are afraid to talk about, or even acknowledge that racism exists. When we are in that spot mentally there is no way we can combat racism. Racism & racist structures are the air we breath. They are part of the fabric of our life. Look at our economic system, our government, the legal system, housing, and our education system. Really examine how these systems were built. Who were they built for? Who were they built to exclude? I’ll be honest, I’ve been afraid for a long time. Afraid of being too black. Afraid of being the “angry black man” as a Teacher, then an AP, and now as Principal, that only wants to talk about race. I have been afraid mainly because I’ve been the only or one of a handful of black men in my district or on my campus, and I could not let anyone have that perception of me. I’m so over that right now. I have no choice. I have to be my authentic social justice educator self every single day. That is part of my race. I’m not waiting for some leader above me to condemn the actions of the systems that do not value the lives of black and brown people. Systems that have led to the deaths of thousands including Ahmaud, Breonna, and George, or for them to call out the white privilege that Amy Cooper attempted to exercise to put Christian Cooper in that very same position. I waited in 2015, when I lived and taught in Maryland, for my leaders to respond after Freddie Gray was killed, but they were peculiarly silent. I can’t wait this time. My community, my staff, and my students need me to lead. We are creating the space on my campus to have these “difficult” and “courageous” conversations. I refuse to allow the fear and doubt to creep in and keep us breathing this same racist air. We are going to face the fear and doubt and move through it, together. This Book is Anti-Racist is my staff’s summer read, our next step. This race is so challenging, exhausting even, and I’ve only just begun, but I know that I have been put into my position for such a time as this. This is my race.

    Hi Gentlemen,
    I am a long time fan of your podcast. I almost could not make it through the second episode of Ahmaud Arbery's case. Because I feel as though you both are genuine and truly do try to work out your cases through discussion, I went ahead and continued listening. I think that especially now, maybe if you take a step back and reviewed the case, you could see why this was murder or how it can be seen as white against black. I know not all of the people commenting may not agree with me and that is ok. I hope that people will start to educate themselves and try to have a greater understanding.

    Here are the points that cause me to pause in listening to these episodes:

    Why didn't Ahmaud just stop when they approached him? He lives in the south, he is being pursued by at least 2 white men with guns. It seems pretty clear why he would continue running and not stopping.

    Ahmaud was on probation at the time his murder occurred. Did the McMichael's know this? No, they saw a black man running in their neighborhood and pursued him with a truck and guns.

    Why does it matter that McMichael's senior was in law enforcement for 24 years? Because it took 70 days for anything to happen in this case. Because there were multiple officials who had connections to the father and who were not going to pursue the case. That is until the video was leaked and people started speaking out.

    If the McMichael's had seen a young white man running through their neighborhood and going into the house, what do you think they would have done? How do you think they would have approached him? My guess is they would have walked over to him, called out to him, asked him what he was doing, without any weapons. They probably would have chatted it up with him and let him be on his way.

    The father was former law enforcement... I have to believe he had some sort of training in how to detain a suspect. I agree this "citizen's arrest" law in Georgia or any state needs to be re-evaluated.

    In a perfect world we would like to think, they didn't see color. They would have pursued any person walking into that house in the same way. In my heart of hearts, I don't think that is the case. Nothing that Ahmaud Arbery did that day warrant his death.

    Ask yourselves this, if the men were black, chasing a young white man, and shot him three times. Would it have taken 70 days for something to happen? Do you think they would have been arrested and still in jail now waiting for a trial date? Would they be charged with manslaughter? Would these same officials say they were within their right to protect themselves?

    It's a tough conversation, racism is a hard conversation to have. But it's here guys, in our eyes, there is no way to ignore it. It has been going on for hundreds of years. We are all entitled to our opinions and views. You are upset that people are going to use this a way to 'push their agenda", but come Captain, step back and look at this case.

    My heart hurts for Ahmaud's family, Breonna Taylor's family, George Floyd's family, and countless other names of black people who have lost their lives because of the color of their skin.

    I hope we all take some time to educate ourselves what people of color are going through and how to support.

    One more thing, I would like to include the posting below. My best friend's husband posted this blog describing his struggle with the current situation this country is in. He is a graduate of West Point, he served our country, he is an educator in an affluent city in the bay area. He is an amazing person and he is black. They have four children, three of which are boys. I hope you take the time to read this. It is powerful. I hope it helps you understand how some people of color are feeling right now.

    This Is My Race: To Be Anti-Racist and Move My Community Forward
    Posted on June 2, 2020
    I’ve been at a loss for words, overwhelmed, anxious and tense over the last month, more so than usual. It almost feels like Baghdad in ’04.
    I’ve been pretty tense with leading a school through a pandemic, then the news of Ahmaud Arbery, then Breonna Taylor, then Christian Cooper, then George Floyd and the uprisings across the country and a couple towns over. I’ve been processing and trying to put into words all of my emotions while also figuring out the pace for my race to be anti-racist and move my community forward.
    I‘m exhausted. Since I was in middle school I’ve been trying to make sure strangers around me are comfortable. During COVID-19 going out in public in a mask doesn’t help much.
    I run and I race as my release. I run to clear my head, and most days it works. I like running when it’s cold, in the predawn hours, that’s what makes me comfortable. I wear more reflective gear than most would imagine, reflectors on my shoes, ankles, flashing red light on my waist, my vest, and a headlamp, to make those around me comfortable.
    I run through my neighborhood to clear my head, but my head is sometimes clouded with thoughts that someone may call the police because there aren’t many black men running around San Ramon period, let alone at 4 & 5am. That is part of my race.
    I just moved into a brand new neighborhood and they are still building houses and condos across the street. At the end of my run last week I peeked into one of the condos that’s under construction (Could my family have fit into this space instead of the one we bought?), and when I walked back across the street I thought, “What are you thinking?! You can’t do that just because you see all those other people do it.” My wife and I talked about those condos later in the day and she almost jumped out of her skin when I told her what I did. “Are you crazy!?” she exclaimed. “I know,” was my reply. Neither one of us had to say it, but we were both thinking it: Ahmaud.
    I ran again a couple days later. I waited until the sun was up, just to be safe. I run in the bike lane and a guy looking down at his phone swerved into the bike lane about 25 yards in front of me. I saw him looking down at his phone, but my initial reaction was, “Was that on purpose? Am I going to be the next hashtag?” That is part of my race.
    I think about my children. I have three black sons and a black daughter.
    I do not know why, but it is automatic, that I go out of my way to make sure SRPD knows who I am when I see them in the community. I have never had a negative interaction with law enforcement, but I know it only takes one time. I make sure that SRPD knows who I am when I see them in the community, and every time they are with me, I introduce my kids to them. I don’t want them to be seen as just some more black kids. That is part of my race.
    I’m in a professional development group with other school leaders. We take turns leading the group each week and last week was my turn. I showed a picture of my boys putting together their new bed and asked everyone to write down what they saw, and what the picture made them think about. One of our members said, “Those are beautiful boys, I hope they never have a negative encounter with the police.” I have three black sons and a black daughter. I hope they never have a negative encounter with the police, and it is my responsibility to prepare them for that possibility. It is exhausting. I’m reading Stamped (Reynolds) with my two oldest boys. We finished Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community (Dr. King) a couple months ago. They are still in elementary school. It’s been hard to explain some of the vocabulary and answer their questions, but it’s necessary for all of us to understand the history of race in America and be prepared to talk about it and become anti-racist. As a husband, father, and educator that’s what I have to do. That is part of my race.
    One of the biggest problems we have as a society is that we’ve avoided talking about race & racism for so long that so many of us are just plain ignorant, are afraid to talk about, or even acknowledge that racism exists. When we are in that spot mentally there is no way we can combat racism. Racism & racist structures are the air we breath. They are part of the fabric of our life. Look at our economic system, our government, the legal system, housing, and our education system. Really examine how these systems were built. Who were they built for? Who were they built to exclude? I’ll be honest, I’ve been afraid for a long time. Afraid of being too black. Afraid of being the “angry black man” as a Teacher, then an AP, and now as Principal, that only wants to talk about race. I have been afraid mainly because I’ve been the only or one of a handful of black men in my district or on my campus, and I could not let anyone have that perception of me. I’m so over that right now. I have no choice. I have to be my authentic social justice educator self every single day. That is part of my race.
    I’m not waiting for some leader above me to condemn the actions of the systems that do not value the lives of black and brown people. Systems that have led to the deaths of thousands including Ahmaud, Breonna, and George, or for them to call out the white privilege that Amy Cooper attempted to exercise to put Christian Cooper in that very same position. I waited in 2015, when I lived and taught in Maryland, for my leaders to respond after Freddie Gray was killed, but they were peculiarly silent. I can’t wait this time. My community, my staff, and my students need me to lead. We are creating the space on my campus to have these “difficult” and “courageous” conversations. I refuse to allow the fear and doubt to creep in and keep us breathing this same racist air. We are going to face the fear and doubt and move through it, together. This Book is Anti-Racist is my staff’s summer read, our next step.
    This race is so challenging, exhausting even, and I’ve only just begun, but I know that I have been put into my position for such a time as this. This is my race.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you for the post Brandie. Agreed this is murder. I'm glad there were arrests and that this horrible and sad case is going to trial. I do want to clarify one point - we both the Captain and myself stated 100% we did not fault nor even question why Ahmaud did not stop. In fact, we questioned why these yahoos were chasing him to begin with. I can't even begin to understand what a person of color would and can experience in this country and elsewhere because people are unfair. I am trying to learn. Regardless, I did not fault Ahmaud for not stopping - I even said that I would have not stopped running from white persons chasing me with guns. I wouldn't expect anyone to - especially this terrible situation. I pray that real change is coming. With every kind wish - Nic

    Thank you for the post Brandie.
    Agreed this is murder. I'm glad there were arrests and that this horrible and sad case is going to trial.
    I do want to clarify one point - we both the Captain and myself stated 100% we did not fault nor even question why Ahmaud did not stop. In fact, we questioned why these yahoos were chasing him to begin with. I can't even begin to understand what a person of color would and can experience in this country and elsewhere because people are unfair. I am trying to learn.
    Regardless, I did not fault Ahmaud for not stopping - I even said that I would have not stopped running from white persons chasing me with guns. I wouldn't expect anyone to - especially this terrible situation.
    I pray that real change is coming. With every kind wish - Nic

  • Leigh
    Leigh Canada
    For the first time, I was really let down by your commentary and lack of understanding of racism. By frequently insisting that people are using Ahmaud's death 'to push their own agenda' shows no understanding of implicit bias and the role it played in his death. His death is not being used to 'push an agenda' - it is a legitimate example of a time where excessive violence was used against a POC in a situation where he likely would not have been victimized the same way if he were white. It was extremely hard to stomach this episode and to get through it, and I am not sure I can align with your values or the values of this podcast anymore. To return to listening, I would hope that you issue an apology on an upcoming episode and that you show you've taken some steps to educate yourselves on racism, otherwise I am uncertain you are the right people to be representing victims and their stories.

    For the first time, I was really let down by your commentary and lack of understanding of racism. By frequently insisting that people are using Ahmaud's death 'to push their own agenda' shows no understanding of implicit bias and the role it played in his death.

    His death is not being used to 'push an agenda' - it is a legitimate example of a time where excessive violence was used against a POC in a situation where he likely would not have been victimized the same way if he were white. It was extremely hard to stomach this episode and to get through it, and I am not sure I can align with your values or the values of this podcast anymore. To return to listening, I would hope that you issue an apology on an upcoming episode and that you show you've taken some steps to educate yourselves on racism, otherwise I am uncertain you are the right people to be representing victims and their stories.

  • Narelle Ikpa
    Narelle Ikpa
    I see an issue here that I feel is just as important and runs parallel to the issue of race which appears to be not discussed as much I believe it should be. GUN LAWS!!!!!!!! As an Australian observing America from afar, it absolutely baffles me that this issue is not also being protested in the streets. It’s seems as though there is a general attitude that its perfectly normal and ok and even one’s right to be allowed to possess a gun. The problem is, when you give one person a gun, the next person feels he too needs a gun to protect himself against the other guy who may or may not have a gun too. Before you know it everyone has a gun and then you wonder why things like this happen. No one should be wondering around assuming anyone has a gun. It’s just not normal. It’s not a peaceful way to live. How can any community be considered safe when anyone and everyone has a gun? The answer is not only to take a look at citizen arrest laws as Nic stated (sorry, no offence Nic), the answer is to take a long hard look at your gun laws and the resulting attitudes toward guns!!!!! If these guys didn’t have guns, chances are Ahmaud would still be alive. Those men felt they were justified in having guns because they possessed them lawfully and they therefore felt justified in using them. Does this mean I believe they were justified in carrying and using their gun against Ahmaud?? Absolutely not! I am saying that legalising guns in such a loose way will no doubt allow such attitudes to be harboured by certain ignorant people. And those certain ignorant people will use them and innocent people will continue to die at their hands. While I realise gun reforms will not eliminate all gun related crimes, I believe it would certainly go a long way to help.

    I see an issue here that I feel is just as important and runs parallel to the issue of race which appears to be not discussed as much I believe it should be. GUN LAWS!!!!!!!! As an Australian observing America from afar, it absolutely baffles me that this issue is not also being protested in the streets.

    It’s seems as though there is a general attitude that its perfectly normal and ok and even one’s right to be allowed to possess a gun. The problem is, when you give one person a gun, the next person feels he too needs a gun to protect himself against the other guy who may or may not have a gun too. Before you know it everyone has a gun and then you wonder why things like this happen. No one should be wondering around assuming anyone has a gun. It’s just not normal. It’s not a peaceful way to live. How can any community be considered safe when anyone and everyone has a gun?

    The answer is not only to take a look at citizen arrest laws as Nic stated (sorry, no offence Nic), the answer is to take a long hard look at your gun laws and the resulting attitudes toward guns!!!!! If these guys didn’t have guns, chances are Ahmaud would still be alive. Those men felt they were justified in having guns because they possessed them lawfully and they therefore felt justified in using them. Does this mean I believe they were justified in carrying and using their gun against Ahmaud?? Absolutely not! I am saying that legalising guns in such a loose way will no doubt allow such attitudes to be harboured by certain ignorant people. And those certain ignorant people will use them and innocent people will continue to die at their hands.
    While I realise gun reforms will not eliminate all gun related crimes, I believe it would certainly go a long way to help.

  • Howard Fites
    Howard Fites California
    You really need to do some soul searching. These episodes are full of factual errors. 1) the jog was not 19 miles from his house it was 1.9 miles 2) for two months prior to the killing the police report no crimes reported in the area 3) you never mention that the shooters knew their victim 4) no mention of the shooters relationship with the DA 5) justice is not an agenda. Calling it an agenda is an attempt to excuse away the clear criminality in this case 6) the unfinished home owner has repeatedly said that nothing was ever stolen from his home. That would include your mystery fishing equipment. Who keeps fishing equipment in an unfinished home? 7) you omit the shooters remarks moments after the killing f****** n*****. You then claim to not have a clue what is in the mind of the shooter As if these problems are not enough you refer to the shooters as “men” and the victim as “boy”. That’s both yelling and disgusting. You owe your listeners an apology.

    You really need to do some soul searching. These episodes are full of factual errors.

    1) the jog was not 19 miles from his house it was 1.9 miles

    2) for two months prior to the killing the police report no crimes reported in the area

    3) you never mention that the shooters knew their victim

    4) no mention of the shooters relationship with the DA

    5) justice is not an agenda. Calling it an agenda is an attempt to excuse away the clear criminality in this case

    6) the unfinished home owner has repeatedly said that nothing was ever stolen from his home. That would include your mystery fishing equipment. Who keeps fishing equipment in an unfinished home?

    7) you omit the shooters remarks moments after the killing f****** n*****. You then claim to not have a clue what is in the mind of the shooter

    As if these problems are not enough you refer to the shooters as “men” and the victim as “boy”. That’s both yelling and disgusting.

    You owe your listeners an apology.

  • Annabelle Porter
    Annabelle Porter
    I can't believe you guys left this shit up instead of issuing an apology. It's one thing to be ignorant but another thing to be stubborn when someone explains how you're wrong from a position of knowledge and understanding you can never grasp and yet you choose willful ignorance instead. That shows maybe you're not just ignorant - you have you're own "agenda" (which I suspect is the reason you even touched this case) and it's prejudice and racist as well. https://t.co/h5AFCkayxh

    I can't believe you guys left this shit up instead of issuing an apology.

    It's one thing to be ignorant but another thing to be stubborn when someone explains how you're wrong from a position of knowledge and understanding you can never grasp and yet you choose willful ignorance instead.

    That shows maybe you're not just ignorant - you have you're own "agenda" (which I suspect is the reason you even touched this case) and it's prejudice and racist as well.
    https://t.co/h5AFCkayxh

  • Springer
    Springer Lake Elsinore
    This needs to be tried as a race crime as well as murder!

    This needs to be tried as a race crime as well as murder!

  • Chris N.
    Chris N. California
    Hi Nic and The Captain. I love listening to your podcast and honestly it’s one of my favorites but I am so disappointed on how you covered this case (I listened to both episodes). I know you aimed to report this case in an unbiased manner but you did the opposite. You talked so much about Mr. Arbery's past and questioned what he was doing without much talk about the McMichael's history. To report this case in an unbiased manner, you need to talk about the McMichael's racist history. Acquaintances of the McMichael's came forward to talk about about their racist behavior. Why was this omitted? It seemed that you gave the benefit of the doubt to the McMichael's. Also, there was no discussion about implicit bias/unconscious bias. Implicit bias can affect our behavior without us even realizing it. I highly recommend that you check out Harvard's implicit bias research and take an implicit bias test. It's life changing! https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html Also, you failed to acknowledge that the lived experiences and world views differ between Black and white people. Experiencing racism will affect one's behavior. You ask why Mr. Arbery didnt stop and talk to the McMichael's and say that you would have. It makes sense that you, as a white man would stop, as white people don't have the fear of race based violence. Just like a female would be more cautious than a man to stop and chat with strange men. I, as a white male would stop and talk to men in a truck that I don't know but my wife wouldnt and that makes sense! I didn't take the time to comment to be an a$$hole and make you feel bad. I really care about this podcast and want it to grow and be better. Everyday I try to take steps to be a better white male and I invite you to join me.

    Hi Nic and The Captain. I love listening to your podcast and honestly it’s one of my favorites but I am so disappointed on how you covered this case (I listened to both episodes). I know you aimed to report this case in an unbiased manner but you did the opposite. You talked so much about Mr. Arbery's past and questioned what he was doing without much talk about the McMichael's history. To report this case in an unbiased manner, you need to talk about the McMichael's racist history. Acquaintances of the McMichael's came forward to talk about about their racist behavior. Why was this omitted? It seemed that you gave the benefit of the doubt to the McMichael's. Also, there was no discussion about implicit bias/unconscious bias. Implicit bias can affect our behavior without us even realizing it. I highly recommend that you check out Harvard's implicit bias research and take an implicit bias test. It's life changing! https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

    Also, you failed to acknowledge that the lived experiences and world views differ between Black and white people. Experiencing racism will affect one's behavior. You ask why Mr. Arbery didnt stop and talk to the McMichael's and say that you would have. It makes sense that you, as a white man would stop, as white people don't have the fear of race based violence. Just like a female would be more cautious than a man to stop and chat with strange men. I, as a white male would stop and talk to men in a truck that I don't know but my wife wouldnt and that makes sense!

    I didn't take the time to comment to be an a$$hole and make you feel bad. I really care about this podcast and want it to grow and be better. Everyday I try to take steps to be a better white male and I invite you to join me.

  • Chris N.
    Chris N. California
    I just wanted to add to my last comment that being at a construction site does not warrant a citizen's arrest. It is not a felony and how would the McMichael's even know if Mr. Arbery was not allowed to be there or not? He could have lived there, been a friend of the owner or part of the construction crew. My wife and I go on daily walks in our neighborhood and many times we have walked into homes that are being remodeled/constructed exactly like Mr. Arbery. The thought of someone doing a citizen's arrest on us is so ridiculous and I can't even fathom us being killed.

    I just wanted to add to my last comment that being at a construction site does not warrant a citizen's arrest. It is not a felony and how would the McMichael's even know if Mr. Arbery was not allowed to be there or not? He could have lived there, been a friend of the owner or part of the construction crew. My wife and I go on daily walks in our neighborhood and many times we have walked into homes that are being remodeled/constructed exactly like Mr. Arbery. The thought of someone doing a citizen's arrest on us is so ridiculous and I can't even fathom us being killed.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    We were hoping to look at this under the Garage microscope and see why did it go from no charges to charges and what is appropriate. The morality of this tells us all at least the good people that this is straight-up unacceptable murder in the streets and premeditated. But morality unfortunately does not determine who sits in prison and who is sent back into society. I wanted to examine the law and how the Georgia state laws pertaining to this case and the specifics of this case. Because it is important. That is what will determine if these guys go to prison or not. We believe just what we said on the show that Ahmaud is a victim - these guys deserve to be arrested and tried for murder. It will be how the cases are argued and the laws understood by the jury. This will be important to have a fair and wise judge. I was trying to point out that the laws set us up for very dangerous situations. This is the example of what can (but obviously never should) happen when you are trusting citizens to arrest/detain someone. You can't do that because of obvious reasons. Truly we wanted to cover the case and had good intentions. But you know what they say about good intentions. It appears we only threw gasoline on a fire. Unfortunately, we are being told to stay away from cases like this in the future and we want to fight for all. I'm praying for actual change. We don't want anyone to feel this way. I'm so ashamed and so incredibly saddened by the murdering of young men that are going on in pockets of this country. There needs to be real change - real change. Racism should have never been - ever! But it is - it's 2020 we should be smarter and more evolved than this. Let's get evolved and work to do so. I'm trying. I hope others will. Cheers friends. I hope and pray for peaceful protests, for understanding and patience. As always - Be Good, Be Kind - that means to each other regardless of politics... outside of being human the rest is just BS. Oh, yeah - don't litter! Keep our planet beautiful and keep each other beautiful - we are all just a bunch of big kids trying to have some fun and seeking meaning in this life that we have been given. I'm grateful to spend it with you - cheers Nic

    We were hoping to look at this under the Garage microscope and see why did it go from no charges to charges and what is appropriate. The morality of this tells us all at least the good people that this is straight-up unacceptable murder in the streets and premeditated.
    But morality unfortunately does not determine who sits in prison and who is sent back into society. I wanted to examine the law and how the Georgia state laws pertaining to this case and the specifics of this case. Because it is important. That is what will determine if these guys go to prison or not. We believe just what we said on the show that Ahmaud is a victim - these guys deserve to be arrested and tried for murder. It will be how the cases are argued and the laws understood by the jury. This will be important to have a fair and wise judge.
    I was trying to point out that the laws set us up for very dangerous situations. This is the example of what can (but obviously never should) happen when you are trusting citizens to arrest/detain someone. You can't do that because of obvious reasons. Truly we wanted to cover the case and had good intentions. But you know what they say about good intentions. It appears we only threw gasoline on a fire. Unfortunately, we are being told to stay away from cases like this in the future and we want to fight for all.
    I'm praying for actual change. We don't want anyone to feel this way. I'm so ashamed and so incredibly saddened by the murdering of young men that are going on in pockets of this country. There needs to be real change - real change. Racism should have never been - ever! But it is - it's 2020 we should be smarter and more evolved than this. Let's get evolved and work to do so. I'm trying. I hope others will.
    Cheers friends. I hope and pray for peaceful protests, for understanding and patience. As always - Be Good, Be Kind - that means to each other regardless of politics... outside of being human the rest is just BS. Oh, yeah - don't litter! Keep our planet beautiful and keep each other beautiful - we are all just a bunch of big kids trying to have some fun and seeking meaning in this life that we have been given. I'm grateful to spend it with you - cheers Nic

  • Annabelle Porter
    Annabelle Porter
    Funny, you guys wanna leave it to the courts to decide if this was wrong or right or racist or not but you still had no issues speculating whether or not anything Ahmaud did contributed to his death or what these guys did. Man the work around comments here in an effort to avoid flat out saying this was race fueled and that YOU WERE WRONG is embarrassing. As a black woman I am done with the show. So many comments here educated you and you refuse to see or admit it. A man is dead cause he's black. Not cause some rednecks fucked up a citizens arrest. You've been linked to articles highlighting the racial slurs. The guy on from their HS who shared his experience with one of the men being a racist. You've been told fine and time again all the factual errors in your episode like the home owner repeating nothing was stolen. You just leave up all the information that led you to your bogus conclusion that it was a citizens arrest gone wrong. You thought this, used false, outdated information to morph your own agenda to fit that narrative and now you irresponsibly leave it up for your listeners to hear and spread falsely. The benefit of the doubt is gone. These aren't two ignorant white dudes, they're awful people. A good person would have taken the episodes down, highlighted where they misspoke and admitted to being wrong and out of their depth. No calls to be nice to people and keep the world clear of litter will pretty up your agenda. Trash.

    Funny, you guys wanna leave it to the courts to decide if this was wrong or right or racist or not but you still had no issues speculating whether or not anything Ahmaud did contributed to his death or what these guys did.

    Man the work around comments here in an effort to avoid flat out saying this was race fueled and that YOU WERE WRONG is embarrassing.

    As a black woman I am done with the show. So many comments here educated you and you refuse to see or admit it.

    A man is dead cause he's black. Not cause some rednecks fucked up a citizens arrest.

    You've been linked to articles highlighting the racial slurs. The guy on from their HS who shared his experience with one of the men being a racist. You've been told fine and time again all the factual errors in your episode like the home owner repeating nothing was stolen.

    You just leave up all the information that led you to your bogus conclusion that it was a citizens arrest gone wrong.

    You thought this, used false, outdated information to morph your own agenda to fit that narrative and now you irresponsibly leave it up for your listeners to hear and spread falsely.

    The benefit of the doubt is gone. These aren't two ignorant white dudes, they're awful people. A good person would have taken the episodes down, highlighted where they misspoke and admitted to being wrong and out of their depth.

    No calls to be nice to people and keep the world clear of litter will pretty up your agenda.

    Trash.

  • Alana
    Alana GA
    I don't think some things were impartial or simply stating facts on this case. My first question would be why question if he were jogging or not? I don't care of he were 60 miles from his home. He never stole anything! Who goes to steal on foot with nothing to carry said stolen items with? No backpack, no car, no suitcase. If he went with the intent to steal, where would he have put the items? One commentator in particular, leaned on the side of the killer which I definitely had a problem with. The more I follow this case and the more that is revealed, I think you guys need to go back and do a part 3. I am definitely seeing a kind of bias here.

    I don't think some things were impartial or simply stating facts on this case. My first question would be why question if he were jogging or not? I don't care of he were 60 miles from his home. He never stole anything! Who goes to steal on foot with nothing to carry said stolen items with? No backpack, no car, no suitcase. If he went with the intent to steal, where would he have put the items?

    One commentator in particular, leaned on the side of the killer which I definitely had a problem with. The more I follow this case and the more that is revealed, I think you guys need to go back and do a part 3.

    I am definitely seeing a kind of bias here.

  • Mike
    Mike Cleveland
    I can't believe the stupidity of these armchair warriors. Nic and Captain can't even make accurate arguments and observations separating what happened before the encounter versus during the encounter, the latter being the portion that will contribute most to determining what if any crimes were committed. The lack of intelligence on the part of people who are also activists is stunning, and scary that it seems to predominate. Intelligence and reason have been replaced by hysterical emotionalism. "Crime XYZ was committed because I saw the OUTCOME and I FEEL like it was murder!" Sad thing is, most here won't understand what that sentence even means.

    I can't believe the stupidity of these armchair warriors. Nic and Captain can't even make accurate arguments and observations separating what happened before the encounter versus during the encounter, the latter being the portion that will contribute most to determining what if any crimes were committed.

    The lack of intelligence on the part of people who are also activists is stunning, and scary that it seems to predominate. Intelligence and reason have been replaced by hysterical emotionalism. "Crime XYZ was committed because I saw the OUTCOME and I FEEL like it was murder!" Sad thing is, most here won't understand what that sentence even means.

  • Jessica
    Jessica TX
    Like others have said, this is where the road ends for me and TCG. I was a fan for a long time, but your handling of this case is honestly terrible. Disappointed.

    Like others have said, this is where the road ends for me and TCG. I was a fan for a long time, but your handling of this case is honestly terrible. Disappointed.

  • Johnny
    Johnny St Louis
    Howard Fites post above mentions some of the inaccuracies I came here to point out. Kinda effed up to get your fan base to trust that you will present the facts, and then lie/omit when it fits your agenda (however delusionally noble you think that agenda is). I think you might enjoy the new fans that will seek you out specifically because you perpetuated harmful misinformation about this case. And make no mistake about it - perpetuating that sh*t does HARM.

    Howard Fites post above mentions some of the inaccuracies I came here to point out. Kinda effed up to get your fan base to trust that you will present the facts, and then lie/omit when it fits your agenda (however delusionally noble you think that agenda is). I think you might enjoy the new fans that will seek you out specifically because you perpetuated harmful misinformation about this case. And make no mistake about it - perpetuating that sh*t does HARM.

  • Elizabeth
    Elizabeth Washington
    I’m glad the captain questioned if he was jogging. I don’t think he was. We all agree either way he should not have been murdered but he wasn’t dressed for jogging. Those shorts aren’t jogging shorts. Why can’t we say this man was murdered no matter what he didn’t deserve that. He doesn’t have to be a perfect victim for his life to have immense value. I also agree with the captain that the DA who supposedly recused himself had it both ways. Either give your opinion or recuse don’t do both. By all accounts he influenced the outcome which is what Ahmaud’s mom was trying to prevent. Great show! Thanks

    I’m glad the captain questioned if he was jogging. I don’t think he was. We all agree either way he should not have been murdered but he wasn’t dressed for jogging. Those shorts aren’t jogging shorts. Why can’t we say this man was murdered no matter what he didn’t deserve that. He doesn’t have to be a perfect victim for his life to have immense value.

    I also agree with the captain that the DA who supposedly recused himself had it both ways. Either give your opinion or recuse don’t do both. By all accounts he influenced the outcome which is what Ahmaud’s mom was trying to prevent.

    Great show! Thanks

  • lisa
    lisa Ontario
    so hard to listen to this episode..... of Ahmad was a white man he’d be alive PERIOD!

    so hard to listen to this episode..... of Ahmad was a white man he’d be alive PERIOD!

  • Curtis
    Curtis Kansas City
    I have a lot of issues with this episode at this time. Most were handled when hearing you out fully. Ultimately you tried to state the facts, and tried to just describe what happened and attempted to not come down on a side, but I think you did get some of the facts wrong. It seems you would agree with me that when you pursue someone and you get out of the car and approach them with a gun you have now attacked them, and escalated it to a life or death situation. Ahmaud is now in the position where he probably feels his only defense is to go straight at the threat and get that gun away from him, so ok, seems like we are ok here. One glaring issue I have is that you guys are accusing people of having an “agenda” by saying racism is at play here. I can agree that maybe some headlines mentioned were misleading, but, when you paint a picture that hey we can’t say they are racist because they didn’t cheer and go have beers at a klan meeting after the incident. I think you guys don’t have an understanding of what racism is in society. Hey they didn’t call him the N word it isn’t racist. No. The fact is that societal racism is at play here. They would not have done any of this if it were a white man. Ahmaud may not have feared for his life as much of he were a white man. I don’t think this rises to a level of hey I’m not listening to you ever again, but please, as a white man, never, ever, ever, for the love of god try to tell the world what racism is and isn’t. You clearly grew up as a white guy who was thought that racism ended in after the civil rights movement. I know this because I am a white guy who grew up with the same idea, man racism was bad, good thing that’s over. And my idea of racism is a KKK meeting where they are spouting racial slurs. Fact is it is much deeper than that, and as white people we really need to be sensitive about saying, “we don’t know that these guys are racists”. That isn’t the fucking point guys. It doesn’t matter if they were or were not racists themselves, race played into how this happened, and how this keeps happening. PROBLEM NOT SOLVED

    I have a lot of issues with this episode at this time. Most were handled when hearing you out fully. Ultimately you tried to state the facts, and tried to just describe what happened and attempted to not come down on a side, but I think you did get some of the facts wrong. It seems you would agree with me that when you pursue someone and you get out of the car and approach them with a gun you have now attacked them, and escalated it to a life or death situation. Ahmaud is now in the position where he probably feels his only defense is to go straight at the threat and get that gun away from him, so ok, seems like we are ok here. One glaring issue I have is that you guys are accusing people of having an “agenda” by saying racism is at play here. I can agree that maybe some headlines mentioned were misleading, but, when you paint a picture that hey we can’t say they are racist because they didn’t cheer and go have beers at a klan meeting after the incident. I think you guys don’t have an understanding of what racism is in society. Hey they didn’t call him the N word it isn’t racist. No. The fact is that societal racism is at play here. They would not have done any of this if it were a white man. Ahmaud may not have feared for his life as much of he were a white man. I don’t think this rises to a level of hey I’m not listening to you ever again, but please, as a white man, never, ever, ever, for the love of god try to tell the world what racism is and isn’t. You clearly grew up as a white guy who was thought that racism ended in after the civil rights movement. I know this because I am a white guy who grew up with the same idea, man racism was bad, good thing that’s over. And my idea of racism is a KKK meeting where they are spouting racial slurs. Fact is it is much deeper than that, and as white people we really need to be sensitive about saying, “we don’t know that these guys are racists”. That isn’t the fucking point guys. It doesn’t matter if they were or were not racists themselves, race played into how this happened, and how this keeps happening. PROBLEM NOT
    SOLVED

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Curtis - you have a lot of good points. You would have to take up the "agenda" conversation with the Captain, that was his point, and even though we share a show we sometimes are not in agreement on points, items, opinions ext. I can only speak for myself here... I was not attempting to describe or dumb mansplain racism - what it means to our country and individuals. I do think it can have a different meaning for each of us. As you pointed out. And you're right I probably have a skewed perspective but regardless I'm willing to listen, learn and try to understand. In regards to Ahmaud's case - yes you're right race played a role in this and we are learning more about the events and the persons involved as we go. But at the time when we covered it, we were simply saying we don't know if they are racists, we don't know if race was a key factor. We have covered many, many homicides and I can tell you there are so many motives for murder and all of them ridiculous and senseless. As was the case here. Thank you for the wise words, Curtis. I hope you'll stick around - we're not great at understanding everything or every case. We are just two guys in a garage trying to make a little sense out of these tragedies. Cheers Nic

    @ Curtis - you have a lot of good points. You would have to take up the "agenda" conversation with the Captain, that was his point, and even though we share a show we sometimes are not in agreement on points, items, opinions ext. I can only speak for myself here...
    I was not attempting to describe or dumb mansplain racism - what it means to our country and individuals. I do think it can have a different meaning for each of us. As you pointed out. And you're right I probably have a skewed perspective but regardless I'm willing to listen, learn and try to understand. In regards to Ahmaud's case - yes you're right race played a role in this and we are learning more about the events and the persons involved as we go. But at the time when we covered it, we were simply saying we don't know if they are racists, we don't know if race was a key factor. We have covered many, many homicides and I can tell you there are so many motives for murder and all of them ridiculous and senseless. As was the case here. Thank you for the wise words, Curtis. I hope you'll stick around - we're not great at understanding everything or every case. We are just two guys in a garage trying to make a little sense out of these tragedies.
    Cheers Nic

  • Curtis
    Curtis Kansas City
    Thanks nick. I just think some care needs to be taken. I’ve listened to your podcast for a long time, and will continue. The case is obviously more complicated as you guys pointed out. And where you guys came down on it was right overall. He didn’t need to die that day, I don’t care if he robbed every damn house in the neighborhood. It seems we can definitely agree on this fact

    Thanks nick. I just think some care needs to be taken. I’ve listened to your podcast for a long time, and will continue. The case is obviously more complicated as you guys pointed out. And where you guys came down on it was right overall. He didn’t need to die that day, I don’t care if he robbed every damn house in the neighborhood. It seems we can definitely agree on this fact

  • @true crime garage
    @true crime garage Kansas City
    Well, as usual when I stay to hear you guys out, I end up realizing my foot is indeed in my mouth. I’ve been behind in all of my true crime listening because I took a long break after listening to down the hill. Sometimes I need a break from this stuff. As a result I have been binging all of my podcasts. So I had just listened to this episode earlier and now just finished another when where captain updated that it seems these guys are indeed racists, it seems I also get things wrong .

    Well, as usual when I stay to hear you guys out, I end up realizing my foot is indeed in my mouth. I’ve been behind in all of my true crime listening because I took a long break after listening to down the hill. Sometimes I need a break from this stuff. As a result I have been binging all of my podcasts. So I had just listened to this episode earlier and now just finished another when where captain updated that it seems these guys are indeed racists, it seems I also get things wrong .

  • Ashley
    Ashley Cincinnati, OH
    I'm a runner. And there are a few things that I want to clear up. 1) It is very possible that Ahmaud was doing a 20 mile run that day. That's very common for distance runners. 2) I regularly drive to different neighborhoods that I want to run for a variety of reasons - including a change of scenery or a challenging (read: hilly) course. So if he had driven there, that would not be at all weird. 3) If 3 dudes with guns started chasing me while I was running, I would absolutely not stop for them. I would run like hell. I actually carry mace and an alarm with me whenever I run for my own protection. This is all to say nothing of the clear racism that took place in this case. From the fact that 3 white men saw a black man running and assumed he had committed a crime to the fact that no one wanted to investigate this case until the video came out 2 months later. And I will not even go into the discussion of what would have happened if the police had shown up because, if history has taught us anything, it's that unarmed black men tend to die for no reason at the hands of the police. Just my 2 cents. #irunwithmaud

    I'm a runner. And there are a few things that I want to clear up.

    1) It is very possible that Ahmaud was doing a 20 mile run that day. That's very common for distance runners.

    2) I regularly drive to different neighborhoods that I want to run for a variety of reasons - including a change of scenery or a challenging (read: hilly) course. So if he had driven there, that would not be at all weird.

    3) If 3 dudes with guns started chasing me while I was running, I would absolutely not stop for them. I would run like hell. I actually carry mace and an alarm with me whenever I run for my own protection.

    This is all to say nothing of the clear racism that took place in this case. From the fact that 3 white men saw a black man running and assumed he had committed a crime to the fact that no one wanted to investigate this case until the video came out 2 months later. And I will not even go into the discussion of what would have happened if the police had shown up because, if history has taught us anything, it's that unarmed black men tend to die for no reason at the hands of the police.

    Just my 2 cents. #irunwithmaud

  • Cal
    Cal Oakland, Ca
    I laughed at the the reasoning of the people who think Ahmaud should have stopped and asked if he could be of help to the two white men in a pickup truck with guns who have been trying to corner him with the help of a third man. Anybody remember what happened to a black man in Texas who was dragged to his death behind the pickup truck of some white men? I'm white and if two armed men in a pickup truck try and stop me while I'm jogging I'm going to run like hell. The McMichaels and Bryan did not witness a crime and had absolutely no authority to stop Mr. Aubrey let alone take his life.

    I laughed at the the reasoning of the people who think Ahmaud should have stopped and asked if he could be of help to the two
    white men in a pickup truck with guns who have been trying to corner him with the help of a third man. Anybody remember what happened to a black man in Texas who was dragged to his death behind the pickup truck of some white men? I'm white and if two armed men in a pickup truck try and stop me while I'm jogging I'm going to run like hell. The McMichaels and Bryan did not witness a crime
    and had absolutely no authority to stop Mr. Aubrey let alone take his life.

  • Continued Listener
    Continued Listener Compton, Ca
    I have always enjoy how captain puts emotion to cases and Nic tries to lay out the facts n stay clear of personal opinions. This is truly a great combination for the podcast. This is a very sensitive case because it is rooted by race. I think you guys did a good job in remaining consistent on your deliveries.

    I have always enjoy how captain puts emotion to cases and Nic tries to lay out the facts n stay clear of personal opinions. This is truly a great combination for the podcast. This is a very sensitive case because it is rooted by race. I think you guys did a good job in remaining consistent on your deliveries.

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