Brandon Lawson Update ////// Episode 310

31 comments

  • jtallroth

    jtallroth Sweden

    A cellphone will ping even if it’s not used. If the phone is moving it will ping when it moves into an area which is covered by a ‘new tower’. Just wanted to clarify that. Thanks! //J-Tall

    A cellphone will ping even if it’s not used. If the phone is moving it will ping when it moves into an area which is covered by a ‘new tower’. Just wanted to clarify that. Thanks!
    //J-Tall

  • Krissy

    Krissy Parts Unknown

    West Texas is like the Wild West. I work for a pipeline company, and it’s common place in that area for land owners to point guns at our people and on occasion be shot at.... even when they’ve been notified of work being done on the right of way. However, in my experience these owners do not they are in the wrong, so I would expect them to call the police after any altercation on the property. Sounds like an unfortunate accident to me.

    West Texas is like the Wild West. I work for a pipeline company, and it’s common place in that area for land owners to point guns at our people and on occasion be shot at.... even when they’ve been notified of work being done on the right of way. However, in my experience these owners do not they are in the wrong, so I would expect them to call the police after any altercation on the property. Sounds like an unfortunate accident to me.

  • Dominic Eubanks

    Dominic Eubanks Pittsburgh

    Very experienced with meth and its effects. It sounds like text book meth psychosis. People having paranoid hallucinations is super common especially if your staying up for awhile. Sounds like he got lost and died in the elements. I'd bet the hogs got to his body or maybe it's in the river.

    Very experienced with meth and its effects. It sounds like text book meth psychosis. People having paranoid hallucinations is super common especially if your staying up for awhile. Sounds like he got lost and died in the elements. I'd bet the hogs got to his body or maybe it's in the river.

  • Sabrina

    Sabrina Tampa, FL

    I want to say I love you guys covering older cases, doing updates, more info on cases you have done before (I think Nic mentioned this in a comment from last weeks Amy case, you may do more of these and I love this idea) It gets more people talking, more awareness, maybe even just 1 person listens or reads and boom, we get a break or lead in a cold case (I just listened to Bear Brook and amazing how that was solved and a lot of work put in and talking to people and someone saying or looking for someone). So thank you for this and I love the idea of you doing these kinds of case updates/more info. I am still wondering about the whole river thing. I listened when Lance and Tim played Kyle's info earlier this year, and Kyle said that noise was vehicles driving over the bridge, and that Brandon must have been by or under the bridge (I may not be quoting exactly but something like this). I still always wonder if Brandon slipped and fell into the river and was carried away to where ever the Colorado river deposits too (forgive my geography and where rivers drain to lack of knowledge). and that could be why they never found him. But I think someone commented on this saying the river was not deep in that section, like only a few inches deep or something so that likely didn't happen. So I am left with: I am still staying with him in the river being washed away, or he got lost and died in the woods and hasn't been found yet, or he was on the wrong persons land and was killed there. I do not believe the "he left to go be with another women" thing, he had kids and from everything I have heard and read he would not leave them like that. It does seem he was on something and having delusions, and that was always speculated about, but no matter if drugs were a factor, we are not all perfect, we all make mistakes and do things we shouldn't and until you walk in someone else's shoes or boots or socks, we should not judge, and he still deserves to be found no matter what. I can only imagine his poor kids who I am sure are much more grown up now must feel not having their dad, wondering what happened to him, feeling helpless not being able to find him. And to be told by law enforcement their dad left to go be with another woman, that's ridiculous and get out there and do your job.

    I want to say I love you guys covering older cases, doing updates, more info on cases you have done before (I think Nic mentioned this in a comment from last weeks Amy case, you may do more of these and I love this idea) It gets more people talking, more awareness, maybe even just 1 person listens or reads and boom, we get a break or lead in a cold case (I just listened to Bear Brook and amazing how that was solved and a lot of work put in and talking to people and someone saying or looking for someone). So thank you for this and I love the idea of you doing these kinds of case updates/more info.

    I am still wondering about the whole river thing. I listened when Lance and Tim played Kyle's info earlier this year, and Kyle said that noise was vehicles driving over the bridge, and that Brandon must have been by or under the bridge (I may not be quoting exactly but something like this). I still always wonder if Brandon slipped and fell into the river and was carried away to where ever the Colorado river deposits too (forgive my geography and where rivers drain to lack of knowledge). and that could be why they never found him. But I think someone commented on this saying the river was not deep in that section, like only a few inches deep or something so that likely didn't happen.

    So I am left with: I am still staying with him in the river being washed away, or he got lost and died in the woods and hasn't been found yet, or he was on the wrong persons land and was killed there.

    I do not believe the "he left to go be with another women" thing, he had kids and from everything I have heard and read he would not leave them like that.

    It does seem he was on something and having delusions, and that was always speculated about, but no matter if drugs were a factor, we are not all perfect, we all make mistakes and do things we shouldn't and until you walk in someone else's shoes or boots or socks, we should not judge, and he still deserves to be found no matter what. I can only imagine his poor kids who I am sure are much more grown up now must feel not having their dad, wondering what happened to him, feeling helpless not being able to find him. And to be told by law enforcement their dad left to go be with another woman, that's ridiculous and get out there and do your job.

  • todd

    todd iowa

    This used to be one of the top 3 cases I wanted solved but it has moved way down the list since it has been revealed that he just passed a drug test for a new job and immediately celebrated by getting high on meth. I want cases solved that involve innocent people that were victims of bad people or accidents. I might get attacked for this view from people saying "he was a great person or he was a great dad"....NO, a great person and dad isn't a meth tweaker. A great dad is a man who puts his children before himself.

    This used to be one of the top 3 cases I wanted solved but it has moved way down the list since it has been revealed that he just passed a drug test for a new job and immediately celebrated by getting high on meth. I want cases solved that involve innocent people that were victims of bad people or accidents. I might get attacked for this view from people saying "he was a great person or he was a great dad"....NO, a great person and dad isn't a meth tweaker. A great dad is a man who puts his children before himself.

  • John

    John Ireland

    Great episode again, I hope I don't offend anyone with this but what if his brother killed him and dumped the body, he drove Brandons truck to the spot it was found and had his wife drive his own truck behind him so he could then just say he was taking gas to Brandon. Is this at all possible?

    Great episode again, I hope I don't offend anyone with this but what if his brother killed him and dumped the body, he drove Brandons truck to the spot it was found and had his wife drive his own truck behind him so he could then just say he was taking gas to Brandon. Is this at all possible?

  • Tracy

    Tracy Frisco, Texas

    There doesn't have to be any "additives" to the methamphetamine in order to produce paranoia and delusions. The person doesn't even have to be a heavy or long time user. Meth can produce these types of behaviors with 1 use. It is especially difficult to gauge the level of delusion when you are not with the person experiencing the delusions, i.e. someone on the phone. Someone can SOUND completely normal, but still be experiencing the delusion. After all, the delusion is very real to them. In this case, Brandon is talking about State Troopers and other people being nearby, and it SOUNDS plausible, but the simplest answer is that there was no one there, it was just a meth induced delusion.

    There doesn't have to be any "additives" to the methamphetamine in order to produce paranoia and delusions. The person doesn't even have to be a heavy or long time user. Meth can produce these types of behaviors with 1 use. It is especially difficult to gauge the level of delusion when you are not with the person experiencing the delusions, i.e. someone on the phone. Someone can SOUND completely normal, but still be experiencing the delusion. After all, the delusion is very real to them. In this case, Brandon is talking about State Troopers and other people being nearby, and it SOUNDS plausible, but the simplest answer is that there was no one there, it was just a meth induced delusion.

  • Mellow

    Mellow Seattle

    Never done meth but been around it a lot. The way nic described Brandon’s use sounded exactly like my brother, basically doesn’t do it anymore but about every 6 months to a year he does for some reason. We always know because he goes straight paranoid psychotic. Thinks people are surveiling him through his phone, thinks cops are drugging him to keep him quiet even tho he didn’t see anything they need him to be quiet about etc. I bet a car just happened to be going same way as him for a while so he thought they were “running him out of town” or maybe after he was out of gas waiting on his brother a car stopped to check on him and he thought they were there to mess with him and he took off running into the dark and called 911. Maybe once he finally realized they were gone he calmed down enough to not want to risk jail because of his warrant which he didn’t care about at the time he thought someone was after him. I can’t understand why las enforcement would think he ran off with a woman and I think Cpt did a good job shooting it down. He just abandons his car, his kids, his new job he wanted and never turns on his phone again? I don’t think so, like mentioned above I think unfortunately he fell in the river or died in a spot hard to find and all those hogs got to him.

    Never done meth but been around it a lot. The way nic described Brandon’s use sounded exactly like my brother, basically doesn’t do it anymore but about every 6 months to a year he does for some reason. We always know because he goes straight paranoid psychotic. Thinks people are surveiling him through his phone, thinks cops are drugging him to keep him quiet even tho he didn’t see anything they need him to be quiet about etc.

    I bet a car just happened to be going same way as him for a while so he thought they were “running him out of town” or maybe after he was out of gas waiting on his brother a car stopped to check on him and he thought they were there to mess with him and he took off running into the dark and called 911. Maybe once he finally realized they were gone he calmed down enough to not want to risk jail because of his warrant which he didn’t care about at the time he thought someone was after him.

    I can’t understand why las enforcement would think he ran off with a woman and I think Cpt did a good job shooting it down. He just abandons his car, his kids, his new job he wanted and never turns on his phone again? I don’t think so, like mentioned above I think unfortunately he fell in the river or died in a spot hard to find and all those hogs got to him.

  • Jessica

    Jessica AR

    I'm 98% sure this is what Brandon says: "Yes, I'm in the middle of a field, a staper (state trooper) just cruised (pulled) some guy(s) over, right here goin' towards Abiline on both sides... my truck ran out of gas, there's one car here, got chased (up into) the woods... please hurry... (went up) talkin' to him... Uh, I totally ran into him... (sta)per shot the first guy...No, I need the cops." (three gunshots that are muffled). Brandon is in a state of shock, and disbelief, as if he can't believe what just happened. Because he's being chased, he gets to the point right away: 1) Where he is, 2) What he just saw in sequence. He came up on a state Trooper that had pulled some guys over. He saw an officer he thought could help him... until he sees the Trooper execute the "first guy." He walked right into the crime scene where someone was shot. The "first guy" is the first guy Brandon sees in the car, likely the passenger if he's walking on the side of the road. When he got close enough, he must have seen the crime in progress. The chase begins. Likely another Trooper chases him down. The call is edited where Brandon says, "Staper shot the first guy." They tried to edit "Staper."

    I'm 98% sure this is what Brandon says: "Yes, I'm in the middle of a field, a staper (state trooper) just cruised (pulled) some guy(s) over, right here goin' towards Abiline on both sides... my truck ran out of gas, there's one car here, got chased (up into) the woods... please hurry... (went up) talkin' to him... Uh, I totally ran into him... (sta)per shot the first guy...No, I need the cops." (three gunshots that are muffled). Brandon is in a state of shock, and disbelief, as if he can't believe what just happened. Because he's being chased, he gets to the point right away: 1) Where he is, 2) What he just saw in sequence. He came up on a state Trooper that had pulled some guys over. He saw an officer he thought could help him... until he sees the Trooper execute the "first guy." He walked right into the crime scene where someone was shot. The "first guy" is the first guy Brandon sees in the car, likely the passenger if he's walking on the side of the road. When he got close enough, he must have seen the crime in progress. The chase begins. Likely another Trooper chases him down. The call is edited where Brandon says, "Staper shot the first guy." They tried to edit "Staper."

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous Parts unknown

    This case makes so much more sense now. I really hope the family someday gets some definitive answers.

    This case makes so much more sense now. I really hope the family someday gets some definitive answers.

  • John

    John Wisconsin

    I got excited when Tim and Lance danced around the theory of a wild boar attack. It got me listening to the 911 tape all over again. Maybe a dozen or so hogs on both sides of the highway chased them into the woods. He needs the cops for firepower. But I guess that's a no go as well.

    I got excited when Tim and Lance danced around the theory of a wild boar attack. It got me listening to the 911 tape all over again. Maybe a dozen or so hogs on both sides of the highway chased them into the woods. He needs the cops for firepower.

    But I guess that's a no go as well.

  • Shannon

    Shannon Dayton OH

    I think the 911 call is just a retelling of what he told his brother . That there were 3 Mexicans chasing him out of town . That the state trooper had gotten one “just the first guy “ and he thinks the other 2 are still after him . I think he was obviously hallucinating. I’m wondering how accurate the pings are . Could it be a mile difference ? That’s a huge amount when talking about walking and minutes difference. If he saw his brother and the trooper , told him to run and at that point he started running himself would he end up near the area of the last ping? I know when my son is at school it sometimes shows him about 6 blocks away , so the pings may not be completely accurate . On the sounds on the 911 call that might be a car going over the bridge, I’m curious about a couple things .. 1. What time was the truckers call about the vehicle in the road? Could that be the semi going over? 2. Was the bridge the direction the trooper came from? I had heard that the road was so seldom used that you could lay in the road for an hour and not get hit by a car ? So how many people could have passed over that bridge if that really is the case ? Even tho I feel like the 911 call was cleared up in my mind , it still doesn’t explain how he died ? The river wasn’t supposed to be deep by any means . If that is so, then how did he die ?? I could see someone running around for awhile and out of touch with reality , but it really seems like it would be easy to find his body if he had some kind of accident . Maybe I’m wrong but it does make me wonder if there was some foul play . Maybe he got himself into a situation that things just got out of hand and things got covered up , either a land owner , law enforcement, someone passing by maybe first tried to help but things went wrong .. honesty nothing makes sense. How could not ONE item of Brandons not be found?? Not a phone , a bright yellow shirt ? Hell a scrap of the freaking shirt ?? Wallet ? Shoes ? Car keys? Nothing ! You can’t tell me an animal ate all that .. where is it? This is what makes me think despite him being on drugs , something seems suspicious.. I used to think the 911 call was the key , now all it seems is just another call documenting a timeline of where he might have been and nothing useful at all . Last thing.. I don’t think you can even think “why would he call 911 and then run from the trooper” nothing he has to make sense . If he was not high it would be highly suspicious.. but when he’s hallucinating, nothing is going to make sense .

    I think the 911 call is just a retelling of what he told his brother . That there were 3 Mexicans chasing him out of town . That the state trooper had gotten one “just the first guy “ and he thinks the other 2 are still after him . I think he was obviously hallucinating. I’m wondering how accurate the pings are . Could it be a mile difference ? That’s a huge amount when talking about walking and minutes difference. If he saw his brother and the trooper , told him to run and at that point he started running himself would he end up near the area of the last ping? I know when my son is at school it sometimes shows him about 6 blocks away , so the pings may not be completely accurate . On the sounds on the 911 call that might be a car going over the bridge, I’m curious about a couple things .. 1. What time was the truckers call about the vehicle in the road? Could that be the semi going over? 2. Was the bridge the direction the trooper came from? I had heard that the road was so seldom used that you could lay in the road for an hour and not get hit by a car ? So how many people could have passed over that bridge if that really is the case ? Even tho I feel like the 911 call was cleared up in my mind , it still doesn’t explain how he died ? The river wasn’t supposed to be deep by any means . If that is so, then how did he die ?? I could see someone running around for awhile and out of touch with reality , but it really seems like it would be easy to find his body if he had some kind of accident . Maybe I’m wrong but it does make me wonder if there was some foul play . Maybe he got himself into a situation that things just got out of hand and things got covered up , either a land owner , law enforcement, someone passing by maybe first tried to help but things went wrong .. honesty nothing makes sense. How could not ONE item of Brandons not be found?? Not a phone , a bright yellow shirt ? Hell a scrap of the freaking shirt ?? Wallet ? Shoes ? Car keys? Nothing ! You can’t tell me an animal ate all that .. where is it? This is what makes me think despite him being on drugs , something seems suspicious.. I used to think the 911 call was the key , now all it seems is just another call documenting a timeline of where he might have been and nothing useful at all . Last thing.. I don’t think you can even think “why would he call 911 and then run from the trooper” nothing he has to make sense . If he was not high it would be highly suspicious.. but when he’s hallucinating, nothing is going to make sense .

  • Crystal

    Crystal Kentucky

    Ok I had to go back and listened to the 2 previous episodes to get caught up and I have not finished the current episode BUT I hear on the 911 call I am In a field and ran into strangers pushing cows over and then something about them running both ways .... maybe out of each side of the field were any cattle fields around where his truck was found I have never posted anything online before but I couldn’t get this of my mind

    Ok I had to go back and listened to the 2 previous episodes to get caught up and I have not finished the current episode BUT I hear on the 911 call I am In a field and ran into strangers pushing cows over and then something about them running both ways .... maybe out of each side of the field were any cattle fields around where his truck was found I have never posted anything online before but I couldn’t get this of my mind

  • Amanda Rose

    Amanda Rose Columbia

    After listening to the Crawlspace podcast with Kyle Lawson, we know Brandon was high on Meth. Unlike a lot of drugs meth can keep you high for days. I do not feel that Brandon was just high and hallucinating but I do feel being high explains why he is having a hard time communicating with the 911 dispatcher. This is what I hear... " Yes Im in a field, a sniper pushed/ pulled some guys over." ( with out slowing down the tape I hear a sniper just breached some guys over. My opinion is that Brandon ran out of gas at the wrong place at the wrong time. He came up on the scene of at least two people who had been shot at by an unidentified person. I believe this unidentified person may have been the police officer who was there when Kyle arrived to the scene. There is roughly 20-30 minutes between Brandons 911 call and Kyle showing up. Then Kyle states he went down the road to essentially wait for the "responding" officer to leave for about an hour and a half. That is plenty of timed for someone trained in criminal justice to clean to evidence. Also want to note I hear cars passing on the road and not gunshots and you can hear at least one other person is there talking to Brandon. I think the call ended when someone took the phone from Brandon and possibly threw it. To add to my corrupt cop theory... Kyle was not allowed close proximity to the truck. The officer told kyle not to go north. The trucker who supposedly called 911 is not on any record. And in Investigation and searches the police are always very quick with the answers. For ex. Cant find his body= wild hogs(no bones, hair, clothes or personal effects have been found), the brother took him somewhere ( Kyle was with is wife and child ), he cheated and ran off with his lover( I could see leaving the wife maybe even the children but he was so close with his parents he obviously called them in times of trouble so this seems 100% out of character from what I have learned). This is my theory. I do not know the victim or his family and I do not live in that area. I will close with saying that it is disgusting and tragic when law enforcement easily dismiss a murder or missing person case because that person is an addict. They are human! Brandon Lawson was a man, a partner and a father and he and his family deserve answers and justice.

    After listening to the Crawlspace podcast with Kyle Lawson, we know Brandon was high on Meth. Unlike a lot of drugs meth can keep you high for days. I do not feel that Brandon was just high and hallucinating but I do feel being high explains why he is having a hard time communicating with the 911 dispatcher.
    This is what I hear... " Yes Im in a field, a sniper pushed/ pulled some guys over." ( with out slowing down the tape I hear a sniper just breached some guys over. My opinion is that Brandon ran out of gas at the wrong place at the wrong time. He came up on the scene of at least two people who had been shot at by an unidentified person. I believe this unidentified person may have been the police officer who was there when Kyle arrived to the scene. There is roughly 20-30 minutes between Brandons 911 call and Kyle showing up. Then Kyle states he went down the road to essentially wait for the "responding" officer to leave for about an hour and a half. That is plenty of timed for someone trained in criminal justice to clean to evidence. Also want to note I hear cars passing on the road and not gunshots and you can hear at least one other person is there talking to Brandon. I think the call ended when someone took the phone from Brandon and possibly threw it. To add to my corrupt cop theory... Kyle was not allowed close proximity to the truck. The officer told kyle not to go north. The trucker who supposedly called 911 is not on any record. And in Investigation and searches the police are always very quick with the answers. For ex. Cant find his body= wild hogs(no bones, hair, clothes or personal effects have been found), the brother took him somewhere ( Kyle was with is wife and child ), he cheated and ran off with his lover( I could see leaving the wife maybe even the children but he was so close with his parents he obviously called them in times of trouble so this seems 100% out of character from what I have learned). This is my theory. I do not know the victim or his family and I do not live in that area. I will close with saying that it is disgusting and tragic when law enforcement easily dismiss a murder or missing person case because that person is an addict. They are human! Brandon Lawson was a man, a partner and a father and he and his family deserve answers and justice.

  • Amanda

    Amanda Maryland

    When he says something about being chased through a field, I can't help wondering if he still thinks he's being chased by "Mexicans" that his girlfriend supposedly sent after him. Not sure if he's full-on hallucinating, or saw something moving nearby and his drugged-up mind interpreted it as the guys coming after him, or if he really was being chased by some unknown person. Also, I don't think he's saying "got the first guy" or "shot the first guy." I think he's saying "just the first guy." Right before that he says something about "ran into him" and the dispatcher says "Oooh, you ran into him." So I think he's responding "just the first guy," meaning, whatever is going on, there are multiple people and he's only referring to one of them. What's weird to me is that he doesn't sound afraid, in my opinion. Urgent, maybe. But not afraid. I did think it was odd that Kyle brought his wife and kid with him. It was late at night... makes no sense to bring your young child out to the middle of nowhere like that. And it doesn't seem like he was afraid of leaving his wife and kid alone, since he apparently dropped them off at home and went back out. So while I didn't think Kyle was involved before, I see what some people are saying about his wife possibly joining him so they could stage Brandon's truck somewhere. Kyle is the one who helped Brandon get the meth. Maybe something went wrong and he was trying to cover it up. I'm not sure who was pressing harder to keep the case alive-- Kyle or the girlfriend. Maybe the girlfriend kept pushing ("Come on, you were his brother and best friend! We need to find him!") and Kyle had to start helping so as not to appear suspicious. It sounds like most of the story we have now is coming from Kyle, and long after the fact. The timeline is so confusing though... that would have to mean Kyle did something to Brandon AFTER he called 911. Did the police officer at the scene back up Kyle's story about being on the phone with Brandon when he got there? The more I think about the case, the more twisted my brain gets. lol. Thanks for going back and filling in the gaps on some of these cases, guys!

    When he says something about being chased through a field, I can't help wondering if he still thinks he's being chased by "Mexicans" that his girlfriend supposedly sent after him. Not sure if he's full-on hallucinating, or saw something moving nearby and his drugged-up mind interpreted it as the guys coming after him, or if he really was being chased by some unknown person. Also, I don't think he's saying "got the first guy" or "shot the first guy." I think he's saying "just the first guy." Right before that he says something about "ran into him" and the dispatcher says "Oooh, you ran into him." So I think he's responding "just the first guy," meaning, whatever is going on, there are multiple people and he's only referring to one of them. What's weird to me is that he doesn't sound afraid, in my opinion. Urgent, maybe. But not afraid.

    I did think it was odd that Kyle brought his wife and kid with him. It was late at night... makes no sense to bring your young child out to the middle of nowhere like that. And it doesn't seem like he was afraid of leaving his wife and kid alone, since he apparently dropped them off at home and went back out. So while I didn't think Kyle was involved before, I see what some people are saying about his wife possibly joining him so they could stage Brandon's truck somewhere. Kyle is the one who helped Brandon get the meth. Maybe something went wrong and he was trying to cover it up. I'm not sure who was pressing harder to keep the case alive-- Kyle or the girlfriend. Maybe the girlfriend kept pushing ("Come on, you were his brother and best friend! We need to find him!") and Kyle had to start helping so as not to appear suspicious. It sounds like most of the story we have now is coming from Kyle, and long after the fact. The timeline is so confusing though... that would have to mean Kyle did something to Brandon AFTER he called 911. Did the police officer at the scene back up Kyle's story about being on the phone with Brandon when he got there?

    The more I think about the case, the more twisted my brain gets. lol. Thanks for going back and filling in the gaps on some of these cases, guys!

  • Annie

    Annie Overland Park, KS

    I grew up and have spent most of my life in Texas. I have traveled down the same road Brandon was on that night. His father is correct when saying it is pitch dark. If Brandon was high from the meth and became paranoid, he very well could have started running, fallen and was hurt badly. There are also old wells on most of the land around there and if he ran in the dark, he could have fallen in one of those abandoned wells and then injured himself severely and/or passed out. If he was hurt bad enough and no one could find him, he could have succumbed to his injuries. The effects of the drug could have had such an impact on his brain, that anxiety and paranoia could have taken over. These symptoms would cause irrational thinking, prompting him to flee into the dark, where the ramification was death. He very well could still be in one of these wells. If this happened, it would be almost impossible to find him years later because his body would be decomposed. I believe this theory is more probable than the one discussed where the thought is he started a new life with another woman. But, a theory is just that, an educated guess.

    I grew up and have spent most of my life in Texas. I have traveled down the same road Brandon was on that night. His father is correct when saying it is pitch dark. If Brandon was high from the meth and became paranoid, he very well could have started running, fallen and was hurt badly. There are also old wells on most of the land around there and if he ran in the dark, he could have fallen in one of those abandoned wells and then injured himself severely and/or passed out. If he was hurt bad enough and no one could find him, he could have succumbed to his injuries. The effects of the drug could have had such an impact on his brain, that anxiety and paranoia could have taken over. These symptoms would cause irrational thinking, prompting him to flee into the dark, where the ramification was death. He very well could still be in one of these wells. If this happened, it would be almost impossible to find him years later because his body would be decomposed.

    I believe this theory is more probable than the one discussed where the thought is he started a new life with another woman. But, a theory is just that, an educated guess.

  • mG

    mG tX

    Meth is does not cause hallucinations. Sometimes weed is dipped in PCP, but have never heard of it being done with meth. I just don't buy him hallucinating. My main question is where is the body? Vultures would have been all over remains if it was out there. I have seen roadkill out in that area draw 20 or so vultures. That body got moved, which implies foul play.

    Meth is does not cause hallucinations. Sometimes weed is dipped in PCP, but have never heard of it being done with meth. I just don't buy him hallucinating. My main question is where is the body? Vultures would have been all over remains if it was out there. I have seen roadkill out in that area draw 20 or so vultures. That body got moved, which implies foul play.

  • Nocturnal 911

    Nocturnal 911 NY

    *also adding: the gf & fam will never get the name of the dispatcher or truck driver that called 911 in a FOIL request. That's protected info that will be redacted ALL the time. Unless either are subpoenaed to testify in court- it's hopeless.

    *also adding: the gf & fam will never get the name of the dispatcher or truck driver that called 911 in a FOIL request. That's protected info that will be redacted ALL the time. Unless either are subpoenaed to testify in court- it's hopeless.

  • Holly

    Holly Grand Rapids MI

    Just wondering how the brother had money for food for his child on the way home but no money to put gas in the gas can? Also did he try to call his brother after the cop left when he was just sitting in his truck after the cop left?

    Just wondering how the brother had money for food for his child on the way home but no money to put gas in the gas can? Also did he try to call his brother after the cop left when he was just sitting in his truck after the cop left?

  • Kendall

    Kendall Arkansas

    What kind of cellphone did Brandon own? Kyle? Has the family tried to request data from Google? I just learned about this from the podcast “To Live and Die in LA.” I was curious so I requested my own data from Google and it is INSANE. Now I’m trying to decide if I feel upset or comforted. Regardless, my sister now knows that if something ever happens to me she has permission to log into my Google account. Thanks for the update! I haven’t stopped contemplating what happened to Brandon since y’all released his story. Cheers! Kendall

    What kind of cellphone did Brandon own? Kyle? Has the family tried to request data from Google? I just learned about this from the podcast “To Live and Die in LA.” I was curious so I requested my own data from Google and it is INSANE. Now I’m trying to decide if I feel upset or comforted. Regardless, my sister now knows that if something ever happens to me she has permission to log into my Google account.
    Thanks for the update! I haven’t stopped contemplating what happened to Brandon since y’all released his story.
    Cheers!
    Kendall

  • Maire

    Maire Toronto

    Todd from Iowa you are 100% correct

    Todd from Iowa you are 100% correct

  • Shannon

    Shannon OH

    I would be interested to know how many wells are out there and where at . Do they keep information on that type of thing? Also on the truck driver , I find it slightly odd he has just never come forward . If I ever had to cal 911 on something like this and the family wanted to talk to me I would just answer whatever they wanted to ask me . Even if I didn’t think I knew anything . Did the police ask him not too?

    I would be interested to know how many wells are out there and where at . Do they keep information on that type of thing? Also on the truck driver , I find it slightly odd he has just never come forward . If I ever had to cal 911 on something like this and the family wanted to talk to me I would just answer whatever they wanted to ask me . Even if I didn’t think I knew anything . Did the police ask him not too?

  • CC

    CC MO

    Thanks guys for all you do! Thanks for keeping people informed about the bad stuff going on in the world, it's not an easy discussion, but an important one. We all need to be more cautious and look out for each other. Thanks for covering Brandon's disappearance, since the first time I heard his call for help, it seemed like this was an easy solve, almost like something right in front of our eyes, we just cant see it! Very frustrating, and so heartbreaking. The meth don't matter, he is worthy of being looked for. If we all have to be deemed worthy to be looked for, wont be nobody out there looking for nobody!! I hope they find him, and his family gets closure. I have heard Kyle talk about him, all I hear is pain. Keeping Brandon and his family in my prayers, thanks again guys!

    Thanks guys for all you do! Thanks for keeping people informed about the bad stuff going on in the world, it's not an easy discussion, but an important one. We all need to be more cautious and look out for each other.
    Thanks for covering Brandon's disappearance, since the first time I heard his call for help, it seemed like this was an easy solve, almost like something right in front of our eyes, we just cant see it! Very frustrating, and so heartbreaking.
    The meth don't matter, he is worthy of being looked for. If we all have to be deemed worthy to be looked for, wont be nobody out there looking for nobody!!
    I hope they find him, and his family gets closure. I have heard Kyle talk about him, all I hear is pain. Keeping Brandon and his family in my prayers, thanks again guys!

  • Mort

    Mort UK

    I have followed this case for a while. I was always suspicious about the accuracy of the 911 call, and after reading the article that came out on the anniversary of his disappearance last year, I felt that this was drug related. The new revelations certainly point that way. Regarding the 911 call; according to Kyle, Brandon is referring to a state trooper and simply misspoke. This ties in with other information Kyle relays on the crawl space podcast i.e. Brandon stated he was being pursued by three people and a State Trooper had 'got' one. According to Kyle, Brandon also stated that he (Brandon)'got' one. So the 911 call (to me) is a bit clearer. 'A state trooper just pushed some guy over' (Similar to Shannon's comment) and Brandon's comment, often interpreted as 'shot the first guy' or 'not the first guy' is actually 'got the first guy' as in Brandon is stating that he also 'got' one of the pursuers. There another couple of things which I think need to be clarified. I can't remember where I read this, but it was stated (possibly by Deputy Neil) that at the time of the disappearance the Colorado river would only have been a couple of feet deep (summer). Consequently while someone could still drown in it, they would not be fully submerged or carried downstream. That would suggest that if he was in the river he would have been found. Kyle also states that the sounds on the 911 call that some took to be gunshots were actually the noise of vehicles travelling over the bridge. If he means the bridge over the Colorado, I don't know if Brandon could have made it back to the area of his vehicle by the time Kyle arrived. That is of course if Brandon actually was hiding near the vehicle when Kyle arrived.

    I have followed this case for a while. I was always suspicious about the accuracy of the 911 call, and after reading the article that came out on the anniversary of his disappearance last year, I felt that this was drug related. The new revelations certainly point that way. Regarding the 911 call; according to Kyle, Brandon is referring to a state trooper and simply misspoke. This ties in with other information Kyle relays on the crawl space podcast i.e. Brandon stated he was being pursued by three people and a State Trooper had 'got' one. According to Kyle, Brandon also stated that he (Brandon)'got' one. So the 911 call (to me) is a bit clearer. 'A state trooper just pushed some guy over' (Similar to Shannon's comment) and Brandon's comment, often interpreted as 'shot the first guy' or 'not the first guy' is actually 'got the first guy' as in Brandon is stating that he also 'got' one of the pursuers.

    There another couple of things which I think need to be clarified. I can't remember where I read this, but it was stated (possibly by Deputy Neil) that at the time of the disappearance the Colorado river would only have been a couple of feet deep (summer). Consequently while someone could still drown in it, they would not be fully submerged or carried downstream. That would suggest that if he was in the river he would have been found.

    Kyle also states that the sounds on the 911 call that some took to be gunshots were actually the noise of vehicles travelling over the bridge. If he means the bridge over the Colorado, I don't know if Brandon could have made it back to the area of his vehicle by the time Kyle arrived. That is of course if Brandon actually was hiding near the vehicle when Kyle arrived.

  • Brian

    Brian TX

    I don't believe that the river would be a big factor. I know the area and it is only 3-4 deep unless there is a ton of rain which was not the case that year. The bridge is a couple of miles out of Bronte, there is a lot of open plowed fields in the area as well as smaller mesquite trees that don't offer very much cover. All that said though if he started walking east or west he could have easily walked right into a dry creek and fell right in. Some in that area drop straight down 15 foot which is definitely far enough to kill or hurt him bad enough to not get out. If that is the case though flash floods since then especially this year could carry the body off from the area or cover it with mud.

    I don't believe that the river would be a big factor. I know the area and it is only 3-4 deep unless there is a ton of rain which was not the case that year. The bridge is a couple of miles out of Bronte, there is a lot of open plowed fields in the area as well as smaller mesquite trees that don't offer very much cover. All that said though if he started walking east or west he could have easily walked right into a dry creek and fell right in. Some in that area drop straight down 15 foot which is definitely far enough to kill or hurt him bad enough to not get out. If that is the case though flash floods since then especially this year could carry the body off from the area or cover it with mud.

  • Laura

    Laura Michigan

    Has the last call between the brothers been verified through cell phone records? Time? Length? There is a lot being put on that last call between the brothers in which we only have Kyle's accounting. I apologize if I missed this.

    Has the last call between the brothers been verified through cell phone records? Time? Length? There is a lot being put on that last call between the brothers in which we only have Kyle's accounting. I apologize if I missed this.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous AR

    First of all, thanks Captain and Nic for telling these stories. I know that at times they are hard to listen to and very heart breaking. I can only imagine the emotional toll on you both as you try to tell the story and stay respectful to the victims and their families. Brandon Lawson’s case has interested me for some time. I too have spent an unknown amount of time listening to the 911 call. After listening to the updates and the information given by his brother, Kyle, I listened again. I cannot tell word for word what he is saying (I don’t think anyone will ever know exactly) but I can say that it all makes sense to me now. Unfortunately, I have first hand experience with meth psychosis, my ex husband suffered from it during our divorce. And as someone who has never used drugs, it was hard for me to comprehend the complete change in personality that took place in the matter of weeks. He became someone else entirely. The once confident foreman on the job, became a paranoid man afraid to leave his home. Listening to Kyle describing how Brandon asked him to make sure that the gf wasn’t touching his stuff and how he believed she was having Mexicans run him out of town sounds like my experience. My ex was convinced that I was having him followed and that I even had the police involved. There were times when he would be afraid of the police and then turn around and call them himself. Unfortunately, it’s all part of the paranoia. Having said that, here’s what I think.... Brandon and the gf got into it, he left and immediately started thinking he was being followed. He passed a state trooper with a car pulled over and he believed it to be one of the cars following him. He probably drove around trying to “lose them” and ended up running out of gas. More than likely, he saw headlights and panicked thinking it was someone that was out to get him so he ran into the woods believing he was being chased. He called 911 and started telling them everything that he believed to be true, starting with where he was “in a field”, the car being pulled over, “ I accidentally ran into them”, (meaning he accidentally passed right by them). I believe he says “I’m cut” letting them know he has hurt himself. By the time Kyle is at the truck with the cop, Brandon has probably decided that the cops are in on it and that’s why he tells him to run. Unfortunately at that point I think Brandon decided to start running again and ended up dying due to some unknown consequences of running in the pitch black night. Whether it was falling in a well or the river or some other accident. I believe that Brandon is an unfortunate casualty of a drug that some people think they can casually use whenever they want without suffering long term effects. Again speaking from experience, I have seen drugs turn loving husbands and fathers into paranoid, anxiety ridden shells of who they used to be. I hope that, for the sake of the family, they find his remains, although at this point it is probably unlikely. They need closure and I hope they get it. I think that the gf and Kyle both probably omitted some of the details of that day thinking that the drug use would cloud some people’s perception of Brandon, someone they love and want help finding. Drug use aside, Brandon is still lost, and all the lost deserve to be found. Thanks again for all your hard work and for the passion you put into telling these stories.

    First of all, thanks Captain and Nic for telling these stories. I know that at times they are hard to listen to and very heart breaking. I can only imagine the emotional toll on you both as you try to tell the story and stay respectful to the victims and their families.
    Brandon Lawson’s case has interested me for some time. I too have spent an unknown amount of time listening to the 911 call. After listening to the updates and the information given by his brother, Kyle, I listened again. I cannot tell word for word what he is saying (I don’t think anyone will ever know exactly) but I can say that it all makes sense to me now.
    Unfortunately, I have first hand experience with meth psychosis, my ex husband suffered from it during our divorce. And as someone who has never used drugs, it was hard for me to comprehend the complete change in personality that took place in the matter of weeks. He became someone else entirely. The once confident foreman on the job, became a paranoid man afraid to leave his home.
    Listening to Kyle describing how Brandon asked him to make sure that the gf wasn’t touching his stuff and how he believed she was having Mexicans run him out of town sounds like my experience. My ex was convinced that I was having him followed and that I even had the police involved. There were times when he would be afraid of the police and then turn around and call them himself. Unfortunately, it’s all part of the paranoia.
    Having said that, here’s what I think.... Brandon and the gf got into it, he left and immediately started thinking he was being followed. He passed a state trooper with a car pulled over and he believed it to be one of the cars following him. He probably drove around trying to “lose them” and ended up running out of gas. More than likely, he saw headlights and panicked thinking it was someone that was out to get him so he ran into the woods believing he was being chased. He called 911 and started telling them everything that he believed to be true, starting with where he was “in a field”, the car being pulled over, “ I accidentally ran into them”, (meaning he accidentally passed right by them). I believe he says “I’m cut” letting them know he has hurt himself. By the time Kyle is at the truck with the cop, Brandon has probably decided that the cops are in on it and that’s why he tells him to run. Unfortunately at that point I think Brandon decided to start running again and ended up dying due to some unknown consequences of running in the pitch black night. Whether it was falling in a well or the river or some other accident. I believe that Brandon is an unfortunate casualty of a drug that some people think they can casually use whenever they want without suffering long term effects.
    Again speaking from experience, I have seen drugs turn loving husbands and fathers into paranoid, anxiety ridden shells of who they used to be. I hope that, for the sake of the family, they find his remains, although at this point it is probably unlikely. They need closure and I hope they get it. I think that the gf and Kyle both probably omitted some of the details of that day thinking that the drug use would cloud some people’s perception of Brandon, someone they love and want help finding.
    Drug use aside, Brandon is still lost, and all the lost deserve to be found.
    Thanks again for all your hard work and for the passion you put into telling these stories.

  • Nicholas

    Nicholas Missouri

    There are lots of conspiracy theories swirling around this case, many with little evidence or cause disparaging law enforcement, and there are many unusual interpretations of the 911 call fashioned to fit those conspiracies. However, I agree with Dominic's post above that the new information regarding Brandon's ongoing methamphetamine problem makes an accidental death due to methamphetamine induced psychosis the most straightforward explanation. Previously, I believe that it had been argued that he was clean and sober, because of the negative drug test; we now know he partied directly after passing it. Brandon's judgment (and speech) were impaired, and the anxiety regarding his outstanding warrants likely fueled his meth-stoked paranoia. Who knows who or what he may have thought he was running from in the dark through the Texas briars and brambles . The fact that he may have ended up near the bridge suggests to me that he and his phone may have both found a watery grave.

    There are lots of conspiracy theories swirling around this case, many with little evidence or cause disparaging law enforcement, and there are many unusual interpretations of the 911 call fashioned to fit those conspiracies. However, I agree with Dominic's post above that the new information regarding Brandon's ongoing methamphetamine problem makes an accidental death due to methamphetamine induced psychosis the most straightforward explanation. Previously, I believe that it had been argued that he was clean and sober, because of the negative drug test; we now know he partied directly after passing it. Brandon's judgment (and speech) were impaired, and the anxiety regarding his outstanding warrants likely fueled his meth-stoked paranoia. Who knows who or what he may have thought he was running from in the dark through the Texas briars and brambles . The fact that he may have ended up near the bridge suggests to me that he and his phone may have both found a watery grave.

  • Ally

    Ally Parts Unknown

    When I hear the word 'sapper' in the 911 call, it always sounded like 'state trooper' to me. I recently learned though, there's a term or ranking in the U.S. Marines known as a 'Sapper'. I didn't know if that had already been discussed, or if Brandon would of known any military lingo. But I thought it'd be worth throwing out there. This case sticks with me more than any other. What a complete and total mystery..

    When I hear the word 'sapper' in the 911 call, it always sounded like 'state trooper' to me.

    I recently learned though, there's a term or ranking in the U.S. Marines known as a 'Sapper'.

    I didn't know if that had already been discussed, or if Brandon would of known any military lingo. But I thought it'd be worth throwing out there.

    This case sticks with me more than any other. What a complete and total mystery..

  • James

    James Texas

    I don't know if anybody will see this, since I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to throw my two cents in as to what the call says and my opinion as to what might have happened. I've been doing freelance closed captioning for some time now, so I've gotten pretty good at listening to people talking and deciphering what their saying. I also live fairly close to the location, I know the Abilene area, and I'm used to hearing this thick accent. I'm not going to say that my opinion is more correct than anybody else's, but i feel like I hear most of this call fairly clearly, though he is obviously slurring from breathing heavily. Operator: 911 Emergency. Brandon: Yes, I'm in the middle of a field, a state trooper just pulled some guys over. We're out here going towards Abilene on both sides. My truck ran out of gas. There's one car here. Guy chased [this part cuts out] into the woods. Please hurry. Operator: Okay, now run that by me one more-- Brandon: There's one guy talking to him. I accidentally ran into him. Operator: Oh, you ran into him. Okay. Brandon: Shot the first guy. [I hear a gunshot here. I really don't think it's a vehicle driving over a bridge. Sounds like a gunshot to me.] [Brandon and the Operator are talking at the same time here, but I hear] Brandon: I got shot. Operator: Do you need an ambulance? Brandon: [People keep saying he says "Yeah" here, but I think it's just a groan] No I need the cops. Operator: Okay. (Brandon's breathing heavy) Operator: Is anybody hurt? [At this point, I think he's running. I can sort of hear heavy breathing. I wonder if he's got the phone in his pocket, or is just holding it in his hand while he's running.] Operator: Hello? Hello? Hello? I really would like to know how long the operator stayed on the phone before hanging up, and whether she ended the call or he did. It seemed like he was still there, and was running or hiding quietly, or something, and she sort of gave up and hung up the phone. I know the timeline shows him calling other people after this, including his brother who claims to have talked to him while the police officer was there. There's so much talk about the meth stuff now that people are dismissing this 911 call, which is crazy to me. I know that delusional people can sound lucid, but man that gunshot in the call is what gets me. It doesn't sound like a truck going over a bridge. It sounds like a gunshot, and I feel like immediately after it, I can hear him say "I got shot." It seems like if it was just a meth binge and he succumbed to the elements they would have found him. I know that there's wild pigs and other animals out there, but even the police say if he was there, they would have found him. They very quickly tried to make it seem like he ran away with another woman, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that that was even a possibility. Where's the text messages between him and this other woman? Do we really think he would leave his children behind like that? I just don't think so. Look at the pictures of them together. He wouldn't leave those kids and never talk to them again. It doesn't make any sense. Somebody shot him out there in those fields, took his body and buried it somewhere, probably a good distance from where his truck was parked. I don't know what the motive would be, but I think that's what happened. I just don't see how this could line up with what Kyle says happened. I wonder if Kyle misunderstood the phone call from his brother, or if the timeline is just wrong in some way and the 911 call happened after the phone calls to Kyle. It just seems like there has to be a mistake somewhere. I don't tend to go directly towards police cover-up, but I've seen so many small-town police that are crooked, and that's what kind of seeps into my brain here as well. I wish there was more answers, but I really don't think there ever will be, unless somebody in the police admits to some wrongdoing.

    I don't know if anybody will see this, since I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to throw my two cents in as to what the call says and my opinion as to what might have happened. I've been doing freelance closed captioning for some time now, so I've gotten pretty good at listening to people talking and deciphering what their saying. I also live fairly close to the location, I know the Abilene area, and I'm used to hearing this thick accent. I'm not going to say that my opinion is more correct than anybody else's, but i feel like I hear most of this call fairly clearly, though he is obviously slurring from breathing heavily.

    Operator: 911 Emergency.
    Brandon: Yes, I'm in the middle of a field, a state trooper just pulled some guys over. We're out here going towards Abilene on both sides. My truck ran out of gas. There's one car here. Guy chased [this part cuts out] into the woods. Please hurry.
    Operator: Okay, now run that by me one more--
    Brandon: There's one guy talking to him. I accidentally ran into him.
    Operator: Oh, you ran into him. Okay.
    Brandon: Shot the first guy.
    [I hear a gunshot here. I really don't think it's a vehicle driving over a bridge. Sounds like a gunshot to me.]
    [Brandon and the Operator are talking at the same time here, but I hear]
    Brandon: I got shot.
    Operator: Do you need an ambulance?
    Brandon: [People keep saying he says "Yeah" here, but I think it's just a groan] No I need the cops.
    Operator: Okay.
    (Brandon's breathing heavy)
    Operator: Is anybody hurt?
    [At this point, I think he's running. I can sort of hear heavy breathing. I wonder if he's got the phone in his pocket, or is just holding it in his hand while he's running.]
    Operator: Hello? Hello? Hello?

    I really would like to know how long the operator stayed on the phone before hanging up, and whether she ended the call or he did. It seemed like he was still there, and was running or hiding quietly, or something, and she sort of gave up and hung up the phone. I know the timeline shows him calling other people after this, including his brother who claims to have talked to him while the police officer was there.

    There's so much talk about the meth stuff now that people are dismissing this 911 call, which is crazy to me. I know that delusional people can sound lucid, but man that gunshot in the call is what gets me. It doesn't sound like a truck going over a bridge. It sounds like a gunshot, and I feel like immediately after it, I can hear him say "I got shot."

    It seems like if it was just a meth binge and he succumbed to the elements they would have found him. I know that there's wild pigs and other animals out there, but even the police say if he was there, they would have found him. They very quickly tried to make it seem like he ran away with another woman, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that that was even a possibility. Where's the text messages between him and this other woman? Do we really think he would leave his children behind like that? I just don't think so. Look at the pictures of them together. He wouldn't leave those kids and never talk to them again. It doesn't make any sense.

    Somebody shot him out there in those fields, took his body and buried it somewhere, probably a good distance from where his truck was parked. I don't know what the motive would be, but I think that's what happened.

    I just don't see how this could line up with what Kyle says happened. I wonder if Kyle misunderstood the phone call from his brother, or if the timeline is just wrong in some way and the 911 call happened after the phone calls to Kyle. It just seems like there has to be a mistake somewhere. I don't tend to go directly towards police cover-up, but I've seen so many small-town police that are crooked, and that's what kind of seeps into my brain here as well.

    I wish there was more answers, but I really don't think there ever will be, unless somebody in the police admits to some wrongdoing.

  • Willy

    Willy San Angelo

    Brandon was high and been up way too long,But I dare anyone to park out there at 00:50 and stand outside of their car with all the lights off. You wouldn't last 5 minutes without going totally freaked. So he's tweeked and freaked,probably freaked out a local law abiding citizen of a nearby home and was probably on said persons property. Wouldn't you be scared if there was a strange acting guy in the middle of nowhere on your property at almost 1am. So Brandon probably received a quiet country burial far far away in the vast reaches of that very desolate and wild terrain. Probably used some farm equipment and put him in deep deep.

    Brandon was high and been up way too long,But I dare anyone to park out there at 00:50 and stand outside of their car with all the lights off. You wouldn't last 5 minutes without going totally freaked. So he's tweeked and freaked,probably freaked out a local law abiding citizen of a nearby home and was probably on said persons property. Wouldn't you be scared if there was a strange acting guy in the middle of nowhere on your property at almost 1am. So Brandon probably received a quiet country burial far far away in the vast reaches of that very desolate and wild terrain. Probably used some farm equipment and put him in deep deep.

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