Delphi Murders /// 4 Years Later /// 468 /// 469

78 comments

  • Jo-Jo
    Jo-Jo Las Vegas
    I am a teacher and the first thing I thought of when you started talking about the perp’s voice and how he said, “Guys, down the hill,” was that this guy sounds just like a PE teacher. At the very least, it would be great if they could interview all of the teachers and coaches in the area.

    I am a teacher and the first thing I thought of when you started talking about the perp’s voice and how he said, “Guys, down the hill,” was that this guy sounds just like a PE teacher. At the very least, it would be great if they could interview all of the teachers and coaches in the area.

  • SheilaM
    SheilaM
    Just look at that photo of Abby. I live thousands of miles away on a whole different continent, but from seeing other pictures, I can tell who it is. I can see what she's wearing and I can describe it. If I were a member of her family or a school friend or teacher... even someone who lived down the street from her, then I would know instantly who she is. Why then, can the same not be said for Bridge Guy? Someone MUST know him. I heard or read somewhere that LE said Bridge Guy IS the guy. If they are so sure, then that must come from something else on the camera... video or audio or both. They say there is less to see / hear than we think... well, why not tell us then? After 4 years and no arrest, surely it can only help matters? We know that the families are aware of at least some of the content so releasing the information cannot further hurt them. In fact having lost these beautiful girls in such a horrific way, can anything hurt them more? Theory: The reason Bridge Guy is not recognisable to anyone is that he was heavily disguise. That is why the 2nd sketch is a more accurate representation of his true likeness. But why would he be disguised? Because he knew in advance what he was going to do. And he knew if anyone caught sight of him he would be identifiable. We could speculate forever about why these girls would be targeted. Maybe they taunted him on some occasion? Maybe he said something to one of them and they ridiculed him. That would certainly be a good reason why they would feel creeped out or even threatened when they realised he was following them. I'm so far away, but this case haunts me. Two young girls enjoying an unseasonably lovely day. Their whole lives ahead... and then it ends. Their fear and pain and the sorrow of everyone who knew them hurts my soul. This guy has to be caught for the whole world to sleep easier!! Incidentally, Nic, on True Crime Binge you and Bob talked about taking a road trip to Delphi sometime. Maybe inviting along the Captain too. I would so love for that to become a reality and for you to take us listeners along with you too. To be party to some of your conversations and observations would be fascinating.

    Just look at that photo of Abby. I live thousands of miles away on a whole different continent, but from seeing other pictures, I can tell who it is. I can see what she's wearing and I can describe it. If I were a member of her family or a school friend or teacher... even someone who lived down the street from her, then I would know instantly who she is.

    Why then, can the same not be said for Bridge Guy? Someone MUST know him.

    I heard or read somewhere that LE said Bridge Guy IS the guy. If they are so sure, then that must come from something else on the camera... video or audio or both. They say there is less to see / hear than we think... well, why not tell us then? After 4 years and no arrest, surely it can only help matters? We know that the families are aware of at least some of the content so releasing the information cannot further hurt them. In fact having lost these beautiful girls in such a horrific way, can anything hurt them more?

    Theory: The reason Bridge Guy is not recognisable to anyone is that he was heavily disguise. That is why the 2nd sketch is a more accurate representation of his true likeness. But why would he be disguised? Because he knew in advance what he was going to do. And he knew if anyone caught sight of him he would be identifiable.

    We could speculate forever about why these girls would be targeted. Maybe they taunted him on some occasion? Maybe he said something to one of them and they ridiculed him. That would certainly be a good reason why they would feel creeped out or even threatened when they realised he was following them.

    I'm so far away, but this case haunts me. Two young girls enjoying an unseasonably lovely day. Their whole lives ahead... and then it ends. Their fear and pain and the sorrow of everyone who knew them hurts my soul. This guy has to be caught for the whole world to sleep easier!!

    Incidentally, Nic, on True Crime Binge you and Bob talked about taking a road trip to Delphi sometime. Maybe inviting along the Captain too. I would so love for that to become a reality and for you to take us listeners along with you too. To be party to some of your conversations and observations would be fascinating.

  • Amelia
    Amelia Ohio
    LE does know who did this. He is in prison now. They will bring charges but are currently solidifying the case for trial. It’s a crying shame Ron Logan didn’t give his tip until 2 more people were murdered.

    LE does know who did this. He is in prison now. They will bring charges but are currently solidifying the case for trial. It’s a crying shame Ron Logan didn’t give his tip until 2 more people were murdered.

  • Tiffany
    Tiffany Indiana
    You know I thought this the first time you guys brought up the tone of voice and how it sounds more authoritative like a teacher. My thoughts are not so much towards teachers or coaches, however I do wonder if the school bus driver angle has be looked into. If school was off that day a school bus driver would be off work as well.

    You know I thought this the first time you guys brought up the tone of voice and how it sounds more authoritative like a teacher. My thoughts are not so much towards teachers or coaches, however I do wonder if the school bus driver angle has be looked into. If school was off that day a school bus driver would be off work as well.

  • Whitney
    Whitney AZ
    It definitely sounds more and more like they know who it is and are building the case. I like the idea that he is already in prison. If he is, would it really take this long to pursue him? If he is not in prison and they do know who he is, does it help or hinder the case to keep everything so close to the belt? They say he is one mistake or tip from being caught, but are they getting in the way by not releasing just a tad more? They’ve given us gold in the video & audio, but confusion in the sketches. What is it that’s needed to tip the iceberg?

    It definitely sounds more and more like they know who it is and are building the case. I like the idea that he is already in prison. If he is, would it really take this long to pursue him?

    If he is not in prison and they do know who he is, does it help or hinder the case to keep everything so close to the belt? They say he is one mistake or tip from being caught, but are they getting in the way by not releasing just a tad more?

    They’ve given us gold in the video & audio, but confusion in the sketches. What is it that’s needed to tip the iceberg?

  • Amanda
    Amanda Grand Rapids, MI
    The other day I was looking at the BG photos on Google images and I came across one where he looks like a young guy in a beanie type hat. I wish I could post it here! I've always assumed it was an older guy based on the photo and the sound of his voice (even with the updated sketch). With so many kids being on the trail that day it makes a lot of sense that BG was also a student and saw an opportunity to commit a crime he'd planned/fantasized about. Hope they catch the POS soon.

    The other day I was looking at the BG photos on Google images and I came across one where he looks like a young guy in a beanie type hat. I wish I could post it here!

    I've always assumed it was an older guy based on the photo and the sound of his voice (even with the updated sketch). With so many kids being on the trail that day it makes a lot of sense that BG was also a student and saw an opportunity to commit a crime he'd planned/fantasized about. Hope they catch the POS soon.

  • Christina
    Christina Waxhaw, NC
    Cap'n - Your theme is so haunting. Sounds great!

    Cap'n - Your theme is so haunting. Sounds great!

  • Aine Walsh
    Aine Walsh
    I’m a teacher, I don’t agree with the PE teacher observation, he didn’t sound authoritative to me. He sounds meek almost anti social, not comfortable with normal human interaction, possibly. I know that’s a lot to get from one tiny clip, but his walk, his demeanor, the way he walks with his head down, he seems as though he would be someone others think of as ‘weird’ someone who is known to fly off the handle easily. He seemed sloppy in appearance . I know several PE teachers and every one of them either wear cargo shorts or some type of sweat/track pants all the time lol, they seem to dress for comfort and only wear jeans when they are dressing up with a polo shirt, ill fitting, baggy jeans don't scream PE teacher to me.

    I’m a teacher, I don’t agree with the PE teacher observation, he didn’t sound authoritative to me. He sounds meek almost anti social, not comfortable with normal human interaction, possibly. I know that’s a lot to get from one tiny clip, but his walk, his demeanor, the way he walks with his head down, he seems as though he would be someone others think of as ‘weird’ someone who is known to fly off the handle easily. He seemed sloppy in appearance . I know several PE teachers and every one of them either wear cargo shorts or some type of sweat/track pants all the time lol, they seem to dress for comfort and only wear jeans when they are dressing up with a polo shirt, ill fitting, baggy jeans don't scream PE teacher to me.

  • Cookie
    Cookie Topeka
    It is reasonable to believe there are two individuals. I can even entertain that BG is left handed for reasonable reasons. Sure it is a stretch and I don’t bank on it but I can see it being feasible if the jacket outline is left handed side draw but these things don’t not add to the conversation. The connection to Evansdale is striking but with the inverted dates to both double homicides it is mind blowing. LE have footprints likely in both cases and likely some BG DNA and more evidence we will never get. If we want to be frustrated look at the sketches. On the surface it is a ridiculous explanation on why their are differences, but who knows what they are actually doing. Four years later all we ask has an answer, no comment.

    It is reasonable to believe there are two individuals.

    I can even entertain that BG is left handed for reasonable reasons. Sure it is a stretch and I don’t bank on it but I can see it being feasible if the jacket outline is left handed side draw but these things don’t not add to the conversation.

    The connection to Evansdale is striking but with the inverted dates to both double homicides it is mind blowing.

    LE have footprints likely in both cases and likely some BG DNA and more evidence we will never get. If we want to be frustrated look at the sketches. On the surface it is a ridiculous explanation on why their are differences, but who knows what they are actually doing.

    Four years later all we ask has an answer, no comment.

  • Mackenzie
    Mackenzie Canada
    Who are they talking about at the end with the wife giving a false alibi?

    Who are they talking about at the end with the wife giving a false alibi?

  • Mia
    Mia Parts Unknown
    4 years has been way too long for this sad case to still be unsolved. I do wish we had a little more information. The guy on the bridge has to be the suspect cause surely a responsible person would have come forward saying that is me. I hope this catch this catch this POS or if they do have a suspect or so don’t let them out of their sight. Also if they have a suspect couldn’t they compare the DNA but then like said of the killer was among the ones searching and I truly believe he was then he could claim that is why the DNA was found but then if the DNA was found directly on the girls then why would that be the case?

    4 years has been way too long for this sad case to still be unsolved. I do wish we had a little more information. The guy on the bridge has to be the suspect cause surely a responsible person would have come forward saying that is me. I hope this catch this catch this POS or if they do have a suspect or so don’t let them out of their sight. Also if they have a suspect couldn’t they compare the DNA but then like said of the killer was among the ones searching and I truly believe he was then he could claim that is why the DNA was found but then if the DNA was found directly on the girls then why would that be the case?

  • Aine Walsh
    Aine Walsh
    When these questions were submitted, was a name or contact info required? This may sound silly, but do you think they were hoping BG would submit a question? Questions like who has access to areas containing sensitive information, almost sounds like someone digging for information for a viable defense. As though they are thinking they could say the evidence is planted because so many people had access to restricted areas.

    When these questions were submitted, was a name or contact info required? This may sound silly, but do you think they were hoping BG would submit a question? Questions like who has access to areas containing sensitive information, almost sounds like someone digging for information for a viable defense. As though they are thinking they could say the evidence is planted because so many people had access to restricted areas.

  • Carrie
    Carrie Colorado
    So I know one theory is that he was on the dead end side of the bridge and passed the girls and turned around to trap them and Libbey took his video because he creeped them out.. . but what if it really is someone familiar to them and the video was more like a "hey look it's mister X from school" type of a situation.. just a thought.

    So I know one theory is that he was on the dead end side of the bridge and passed the girls and turned around to trap them and Libbey took his video because he creeped them out.. . but what if it really is someone familiar to them and the video was more like a "hey look it's mister X from school" type of a situation.. just a thought.

  • Mel
    Mel Oregon
    Wondering why the Captain is so sure the perp would be covered in blood. If they were strangled, it could be a relatively blood free crime scene. Did I miss something? Thanks!

    Wondering why the Captain is so sure the perp would be covered in blood. If they were strangled, it could be a relatively blood free crime scene. Did I miss something? Thanks!

  • Bee
    Bee Sydney
    The Captain keeps mentioning that the perp would have been covered in blood. But the cause of death hasn't been released. So, is this based on the scarves-worn-at-funeral rumour (or is that fact?)? TCG 🤍

    The Captain keeps mentioning that the perp would have been covered in blood. But the cause of death hasn't been released. So, is this based on the scarves-worn-at-funeral rumour (or is that fact?)?
    TCG 🤍

  • Tracy Dick
    Tracy Dick New York
    Captain! You know who it is. Since we only need to prove that the alibi given by his wife is a lie, surely you guys can hire a private investigator or get an investigative journalist to do some real digging. All they need to focus on is what the wife was doing for that hour and thirty minutes on the 13th. If LE pinged everyone's cellphone that day around the time of the crime, his phone either must have been left with his wife which bolsters his alibi, or it was elsewhere which would impeach his alibi. Anyway, I believe you know who it is and I'm certain you just put the fear of God in him with this episode.

    Captain! You know who it is. Since we only need to prove that the alibi given by his wife is a lie, surely you guys can hire a private investigator or get an investigative journalist to do some real digging. All they need to focus on is what the wife was doing for that hour and thirty minutes on the 13th.

    If LE pinged everyone's cellphone that day around the time of the crime, his phone either must have been left with his wife which bolsters his alibi, or it was elsewhere which would impeach his alibi.

    Anyway, I believe you know who it is and I'm certain you just put the fear of God in him with this episode.

  • Bridget
    Bridget RI
    I’m also thinking he sounds like a teacher. Relaxed and used to being around kids. And there was no school that day, so unless it was one of those things where kids are off but teachers had to report to school it would make sense he’d be out and not working that day. This is one of the cases that I can’t shake, and feel almost desperate to have solved and the POS put away. I hope it happens soon.

    I’m also thinking he sounds like a teacher. Relaxed and used to being around kids. And there was no school that day, so unless it was one of those things where kids are off but teachers had to report to school it would make sense he’d be out and not working that day.

    This is one of the cases that I can’t shake, and feel almost desperate to have solved and the POS put away. I hope it happens soon.

  • Joe
    Joe Indiana
    Nobody talks about where he sprung himself from?! I believe he posted up on that hill behind the Abbey snap chat photo (I also believe he had been there before for recon). Then closed in on them once they were “cornered” on the opposite side of the bridge. You can clearly see a hand gun in the lower right quarter of his jacket on the video. He knew how to infiltrate that specific “target area” and exit. If he was that good, it wasn’t his first time going in and out of that area unnoticed. I also believe it all went sideways at some point, and he didn’t know the video/audio was rolling. No low life nothing can pull this off. Dude is a prominent figure in society who has cash and means to pay people off. He was way over dressed on an unseasonable warm day. Thats what tipped off Libby to start the video. He probably shed all of his bloody’d extra clothing (which is why there was so much evidence) once he killed them, then bolted back to the old CPS building to exfiltrate. 🎤 drop.

    Nobody talks about where he sprung himself from?! I believe he posted up on that hill behind the Abbey snap chat photo (I also believe he had been there before for recon). Then closed in on them once they were “cornered” on the opposite side of the bridge. You can clearly see a hand gun in the lower right quarter of his jacket on the video. He knew how to infiltrate that specific “target area” and exit. If he was that good, it wasn’t his first time going in and out of that area unnoticed. I also believe it all went sideways at some point, and he didn’t know the video/audio was rolling. No low life nothing can pull this off. Dude is a prominent figure in society who has cash and means to pay people off. He was way over dressed on an unseasonable warm day. Thats what tipped off Libby to start the video. He probably shed all of his bloody’d extra clothing (which is why there was so much evidence) once he killed them, then bolted back to the old CPS building to exfiltrate. 🎤 drop.

  • Alicia
    Alicia FL
    My Arm-chair Profile: He's older than anyone thinks. 40-55. He's shortish. 5'9"-5'11". He hasn't lived there in years, but had experience there in his childhood. He was going through a big life change: cancer, divorce, lost job, something like that. And that plays a part of his unaccountability. Anyone who should've known where he was didn't b/c they thought he was at a doctor appt, or his ex-wife or old co-workers had no need to know where he was anymore b/c of the circumstance. A forensic anthropologist would know why he walks in that unique way and be able to explain it so that it's more apparent to the rest of us so that we might better pick him out. I think he is NOT a teacher. If he were a local teacher he might assume other kids would be out and about to witness. I think he was in a bad place mentally/emotionally, and at the worst place at the "right" time. And a lot of people say "guys". I'm from southeast MI but haven't lived there in two decades and I still say it. Furthermore, I have no interaction with kids or authority of kids. My two cents! It is beyond shameful that this guy is walking free given all the help we were given by the girls to catch him.

    My Arm-chair Profile: He's older than anyone thinks. 40-55. He's shortish. 5'9"-5'11". He hasn't lived there in years, but had experience there in his childhood. He was going through a big life change: cancer, divorce, lost job, something like that. And that plays a part of his unaccountability. Anyone who should've known where he was didn't b/c they thought he was at a doctor appt, or his ex-wife or old co-workers had no need to know where he was anymore b/c of the circumstance. A forensic anthropologist would know why he walks in that unique way and be able to explain it so that it's more apparent to the rest of us so that we might better pick him out. I think he is NOT a teacher. If he were a local teacher he might assume other kids would be out and about to witness. I think he was in a bad place mentally/emotionally, and at the worst place at the "right" time. And a lot of people say "guys". I'm from southeast MI but haven't lived there in two decades and I still say it. Furthermore, I have no interaction with kids or authority of kids. My two cents! It is beyond shameful that this guy is walking free given all the help we were given by the girls to catch him.

  • Emk
    Emk Boston
    Holding back details about the crime is getting this investigation nowhere. They need help from the public and the stupid composite sketch is a joke. They need to release ALL the video and audio for starters. Somebody could maybe ID the bridge guy if they could see more of him in action.

    Holding back details about the crime is getting this investigation nowhere. They need help from the public and the stupid composite sketch is a joke. They need to release ALL the video and audio for starters. Somebody could maybe ID the bridge guy if they could see more of him in action.

  • Christie Groves
    Christie Groves Seattle, Washington
    I was on the fence about posting a comment, but I did turn in a PE Teacher from the local HS to Kelsie German, and she confirmed it was not him and he had been cleared. I went through every single softball, sports, public Kids photo from all schools in Delphi at that time to come up with the gym teacher who looks like the second sketch and could "look younger," if he wanted to. It can be found if you choose to look. I also am under the impression that Abby crawled to Libby or was near her and still alive at the time of her meaning Libby's death, it's my gut feeling that Abby was the one trying to cover her with the leaves, branches, debris the best she could in the position and situation she was in. I was actually in the process of writing a letter to an forensic anthropologist who is looking at this case when I saw it come up on Stitcher today. I was writing to her, with regards to something Ron Logan said in his first interview after the murders. I started to write, (When the Delphi Murders first happened, there was a lot of heat on Ron Logan the property owner. He said something in his very active interview with a reporter a day or two after the girls, Abby and Libby were found deceased, something like, "my son grew up here playing in these woods." In another interview he states, "I think it's someone in the family," and then the interviewer asks why?, He say's, "you can't see the forest through the trees.") These two separate interviews and what Ron said has always stood out to me, maybe haunted is the right word, while I think I found that Rons Step Son died in 2008, I don't know if he has a biological son and if he was vetted, not to put more trouble in Rons lap- just trying to clear this up, and of course I am sorry for his step sons death. So, this step son was born in 1967, we can assume he had friends, and at that time the friends would be 50 in 2017. I wonder if one of these friends might stand out to Ron, and maybe still come to see Ron and if so, maybe he did that day - this is just a thought. I personally found the second sketch to be of a much younger man than the "Bridge Guy" he appears in his late 40's to me. I still think the Gym Teacher looks like the second sketch and I do believe Nic, the Teachers were in Teacher Meetings that day. I know I sound like a broken records but we have 5 miles and in that 5 mile radius of where a person is last seen we have answers to who they are, or if they are missing they can be found. “- I hear him, whispering. - What does he say? - I can feel his mouth on my ear, his breath. He tells me that he loves me.” Kiss The Girls

    I was on the fence about posting a comment, but I did turn in a PE Teacher from the local HS to Kelsie German, and she confirmed it was not him and he had been cleared. I went through every single softball, sports, public Kids photo from all schools in Delphi at that time to come up with the gym teacher who looks like the second sketch and could "look younger," if he wanted to. It can be found if you choose to look. I also am under the impression that Abby crawled to Libby or was near her and still alive at the time of her meaning Libby's death, it's my gut feeling that Abby was the one trying to cover her with the leaves, branches, debris the best she could in the position and situation she was in. I was actually in the process of writing a letter to an forensic anthropologist who is looking at this case when I saw it come up on Stitcher today. I was writing to her, with regards to something Ron Logan said in his first interview after the murders. I started to write, (When the Delphi Murders first happened, there was a lot of heat on Ron Logan the property owner. He said something in his very active interview with a reporter a day or two after the girls, Abby and Libby were found deceased, something like, "my son grew up here playing in these woods." In another interview he states, "I think it's someone in the family," and then the interviewer asks why?, He say's, "you can't see the forest through the trees.") These two separate interviews and what Ron said has always stood out to me, maybe haunted is the right word, while I think I found that Rons Step Son died in 2008, I don't know if he has a biological son and if he was vetted, not to put more trouble in Rons lap- just trying to clear this up, and of course I am sorry for his step sons death. So, this step son was born in 1967, we can assume he had friends, and at that time the friends would be 50 in 2017. I wonder if one of these friends might stand out to Ron, and maybe still come to see Ron and if so, maybe he did that day - this is just a thought. I personally found the second sketch to be of a much younger man than the "Bridge Guy" he appears in his late 40's to me. I still think the Gym Teacher looks like the second sketch and I do believe Nic, the Teachers were in Teacher Meetings that day. I know I sound like a broken records but we have 5 miles and in that 5 mile radius of where a person is last seen we have answers to who they are, or if they are missing they can be found.

    “- I hear him, whispering.
    - What does he say?
    - I can feel his mouth on my ear, his breath. He tells me that he loves me.” Kiss The Girls

  • Ed
    Ed IL
    Nic, You mention at least two suspects are well known to LE but are not in the public. How are you defining this exactly - ie not Daniel Nations for instance, like a very prominent public suspect? Does this extend to people mentioned somewhat lightly online but not openly discussed in the media (ie a youth pastor etc)? Just wondering what you mean by not in the public - aka not on major outlets or not anywhere at all to your knowledge? Thanks for the clarification - this was a great end to the second part! Ed

    Nic,

    You mention at least two suspects are well known to LE but are not in the public. How are you defining this exactly - ie not Daniel Nations for instance, like a very prominent public suspect? Does this extend to people mentioned somewhat lightly online but not openly discussed in the media (ie a youth pastor etc)? Just wondering what you mean by not in the public - aka not on major outlets or not anywhere at all to your knowledge?

    Thanks for the clarification - this was a great end to the second part!

    Ed

  • Rob
    Rob Colorado
    Aine, I had the exact same thought.

    Aine, I had the exact same thought.

  • Jack
    Jack South Carolina
    This case caught my attention when it happened because my granddaughter is named Abby and was the same age as Abby Williams on that day so hearing the news naturally caught my ear.. Since then i have researched and theorized many times and i came up with the solution several times only to think about it then come back all confused so i start over.. Every time i start over i subtract everything that i can not verify to get it as simple as possible. Personally i think the horrendous nature of this crime tends to lead to overthinking when it boils down to a few simple steps. There is a clear, though horrible logic to this crime. I listen to your podcast every week and think you have some great insight into this case. Recently i decided to flip the entire trail, high bridge, creek, crime scene around and follow the creek in the opposite direction. If you go upstream and head towards Wilson Bridge there appears to be a few possibilities for getting out of there unseen. Way back in the beginning i started with him going the other way back across Freedom Bridge, through the main parking lot, to RR tracks, and back through town to catch a ride or even over to Wabash River and walk towards Lafayette and catch a ride out in the country. Also had a cemetery route and a route to the old CPS. What got me thinking about this bew idea of him heading upstream is i heard on maybe HLN that “he just disappeared into the woods after the crime.” Truth is that i have no idea how he entered or exited.. Thanks for covering this case and sticking with it. Justice is coming.

    This case caught my attention when it happened because my granddaughter is named Abby and was the same age as Abby Williams on that day so hearing the news naturally caught my ear.. Since then i have researched and theorized many times and i came up with the solution several times only to think about it then come back all confused so i start over.. Every time i start over i subtract everything that i can not verify to get it as simple as possible. Personally i think the horrendous nature of this crime tends to lead to overthinking when it boils down to a few simple steps. There is a clear, though horrible logic to this crime. I listen to your podcast every week and think you have some great insight into this case. Recently i decided to flip the entire trail, high bridge, creek, crime scene around and follow the creek in the opposite direction. If you go upstream and head towards Wilson Bridge there appears to be a few possibilities for getting out of there unseen. Way back in the beginning i started with him going the other way back across Freedom Bridge, through the main parking lot, to RR tracks, and back through town to catch a ride or even over to Wabash River and walk towards Lafayette and catch a ride out in the country. Also had a cemetery route and a route to the old CPS. What got me thinking about this bew idea of him heading upstream is i heard on maybe HLN that “he just disappeared into the woods after the crime.” Truth is that i have no idea how he entered or exited.. Thanks for covering this case and sticking with it. Justice is coming.

  • Jack Greene
    Jack Greene South Carolina
    Maybe in search party. Maybe in evening of 13th or 14th morning or both. As far as him getting close enough to crime scene to make that claim i do not know. It was a very bold, risky crime so maybe he would want to get that close to the girls in the search. Also possible he tried to lead searchers away from the girls. His reckless boldness is what led me to think that he just walked right out of the trails down the main trail and exited through the main parking area on foot. This was my very first theory four years ago, He was very direct in his approach though we do not know how long he was out thrre prowling or if he had vern out there stalking several times before. I tend to think that he gets off on being right in the middle of everything and smirking that “i am right here and they can not catch me” type of arrogance. I also got the phys ed teacher, coach, minister, youth counselor, authoritarian vibe from his voice. Maybe pseudo-LE like security guard, parks/rec type? I hope you and Bob do get to visit the trails and walk it then report your impressions. I only know one person personally who went by there and she said that she got a totally different vibe from being out there in person and she did not even cross high bridge or Deer Creek. She did get lost and drive over Wilson Bridge. So maybe that is where i got the idea that he may have entered ir exited from that direction. Peace.

    Maybe in search party. Maybe in evening of 13th or 14th morning or both. As far as him getting close enough to crime scene to make that claim i do not know. It was a very bold, risky crime so maybe he would want to get that close to the girls in the search. Also possible he tried to lead searchers away from the girls. His reckless boldness is what led me to think that he just walked right out of the trails down the main trail and exited through the main parking area on foot. This was my very first theory four years ago, He was very direct in his approach though we do not know how long he was out thrre prowling or if he had vern out there stalking several times before. I tend to think that he gets off on being right in the middle of everything and smirking that “i am right here and they can not catch me” type of arrogance. I also got the phys ed teacher, coach, minister, youth counselor, authoritarian vibe from his voice. Maybe pseudo-LE like security guard, parks/rec type? I hope you and Bob do get to visit the trails and walk it then report your impressions. I only know one person personally who went by there and she said that she got a totally different vibe from being out there in person and she did not even cross high bridge or Deer Creek. She did get lost and drive over Wilson Bridge. So maybe that is where i got the idea that he may have entered ir exited from that direction. Peace.

  • Jack Greene
    Jack Greene South Carolina
    My suspect also has a wife covering for him. I doubt if he is the killer though. He is not in prison of jail.

    My suspect also has a wife covering for him. I doubt if he is the killer though. He is not in prison of jail.

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo
    I understand why they have such a tight lid on this case in order to someday get a guilty verdict on a capital case, but unless they already know who BG is and are working on some angle to trap him but not spook him, they have no reason to hold back on an FBI profile. If they released an FBI profile I think it would immediately trigger a memory or detail to someone in the public that would identify BG. The only reason not to release the profile is because they already know and they are passed identification. And if they do know BG, then every day that passes without an arrest is a failure of LE for being outsmarted for 4 years by a monster walking free.

    I understand why they have such a tight lid on this case in order to someday get a guilty verdict on a capital case, but unless they already know who BG is and are working on some angle to trap him but not spook him, they have no reason to hold back on an FBI profile. If they released an FBI profile I think it would immediately trigger a memory or detail to someone in the public that would identify BG. The only reason not to release the profile is because they already know and they are passed identification. And if they do know BG, then every day that passes without an arrest is a failure of LE for being outsmarted for 4 years by a monster walking free.

  • Debby Sullivan
    Debby Sullivan
    I agree with Aine... I don't see him as a teacher or somebody in authority over kids. He appears unsure of himself to me.. not confident, but bumbling. Probably has few social skills. I also don't hear "Down the hill" as a command... not forceful enough, too casual. He is definitely a local who has been there often. You can tell by the way he casually strolls across the bridge. I'm thinking this was a crime of opportunity and not planned. It seems like he spends a lot of time outdoors... maybe a hunter? That would explain why he had a knife, if we are assuming that this is how the girls were killed. Am I the only one who thought that most of the police's answers to the questions were evasive? I'd LOVE to see the FBI profile... very mysterious that they won't share it. I agree that SOMEBODY knows who he is and is either intentionally or inadvertently covering for him... I would guess a female wife/partner. Anyway, I hope it gets solved soon. To me he has the makings of a serial killer, if he's not one already. Slainte Debby

    I agree with Aine... I don't see him as a teacher or somebody in authority over kids. He appears unsure of himself to me.. not confident, but bumbling. Probably has few social skills. I also don't hear "Down the hill" as a command... not forceful enough, too casual. He is definitely a local who has been there often. You can tell by the way he casually strolls across the bridge. I'm thinking this was a crime of opportunity and not planned. It seems like he spends a lot of time outdoors... maybe a hunter? That would explain why he had a knife, if we are assuming that this is how the girls were killed. Am I the only one who thought that most of the police's answers to the questions were evasive? I'd LOVE to see the FBI profile... very mysterious that they won't share it. I agree that SOMEBODY knows who he is and is either intentionally or inadvertently covering for him... I would guess a female wife/partner. Anyway, I hope it gets solved soon. To me he has the makings of a serial killer, if he's not one already.
    Slainte
    Debby

  • Elizabeth
    Elizabeth Oregon
    I totally agree that the bridge and trail are not well known. I grew up in the next county, lived there for over 40 years, and loved to find unique, nature filled location to take photos. I was given several recommendations from many other nature lovers for places to go, but I was never told about the Monon High bridge. I had no idea it existed. So yes, Kelsey's comments about this location are spot on. The murderer would have to know the place well, have been there several times and knew exactly what he was doing.

    I totally agree that the bridge and trail are not well known. I grew up in the next county, lived there for over 40 years, and loved to find unique, nature filled location to take photos. I was given several recommendations from many other nature lovers for places to go, but I was never told about the Monon High bridge. I had no idea it existed. So yes, Kelsey's comments about this location are spot on. The murderer would have to know the place well, have been there several times and knew exactly what he was doing.

  • Ed
    Ed IL
    @Nic Thanks for the clarification! Definitely understand you’re not able to name the two. In a similar line of questioning - what would local mean exactly here? I am assuming it means within some radius of Delphi but not necessarily a Delphi resident? Also, and perhaps not doable, but any line of research to look into to kind of put two and two together on these two suspects? Maybe some avenue to look down generally? Thanks again, Ed

    @Nic

    Thanks for the clarification! Definitely understand you’re not able to name the two.

    In a similar line of questioning - what would local mean exactly here? I am assuming it means within some radius of Delphi but not necessarily a Delphi resident?

    Also, and perhaps not doable, but any line of research to look into to kind of put two and two together on these two suspects? Maybe some avenue to look down generally?

    Thanks again,

    Ed

  • Nina
    Nina Indiana
    What are the other murders of girls in the area that you mention happened? I live in Carroll county and can’t find anything about other murders. I have young children of my own so I find this very concerning.

    What are the other murders of girls in the area that you mention happened? I live in Carroll county and can’t find anything about other murders. I have young children of my own so I find this very concerning.

  • Mrs. Smith69
    Mrs. Smith69 Texas
    I don't believe I have ever agreed more with two Podcasters than after these two episodes on the Delphi murders. Y'all brought up so many different ideas that I believe are spot on and so different than many others I have heard recently. My neck hurts from nodding my head YES so much as not to disturb the people around me. Keep up the AWESOME work!!

    I don't believe I have ever agreed more with two Podcasters than after these two episodes on the Delphi murders. Y'all brought up so many different ideas that I believe are spot on and so different than many others I have heard recently. My neck hurts from nodding my head YES so much as not to disturb the people around me. Keep up the AWESOME work!!

  • Shawna
    Shawna PU, USA
    I'm going to take a hard right turn on this, but what if LE has absolutely no clue who BG is? What if Libby was catfished on Snapchat and planned a meet up with BG weeks in advance? They knew they were out of school, and that could have been a perfect time to meet up with what they thought was a cute boy they've been talking to for months. BG could have come from anywhere. He could have spent all weekend sizing up the area, planning his attack. I think he planned on abducting them, but he obviously didn't plan on Libby fighting so hard. I think he was doing good to get them both on the ground, and he knew he couldn't handle the both of them any longer so he had to kill them. Also, I know I'm out of left field with this one, there is absolutely no way BG is local. My grandma lived in a town double+ the size of Delphi, and she not only knew everyone in town, she knew everyone in the neighboring towns. Basically if she didn't know you, you didn't exist. Not because she was a busy body, but because the town was that dang small of a town. So even if BG's wife was covering for him, there would be 20 other people accusing him, especially if he was active with church or youth sports or whatever. In addition, there's no way this seems like a crime of opportunity for me. Who chooses TWO victims? The likelihood of getting caught seems almost certain. Plus this meeting place just feels so predetermined. Libby even bugged her sister about taking her to park even after she first said no. So, in closing, I think BG could have come from anywhere. He posed online as someone else to get the girls' attention. Libby wiped her phone for a reason. He could have even provided her with a burner phone that's never been found. The girls show up at the time and the place they've agreed to meet, knowing they were out of school and parents would be busy with their work week. Then they aren't met by the guy they've chatted with online, but a creeper that they keep seeing on the trail. He's following them around because he's waiting for the perfect time to pounce. He finally approaches, knowing they've got no where to run, and he intends to walk them quietly back to his car where he will leave the scene with the girls never to be heard from again. At this point, Libby decides to fight for her, and even more importantly, Abby's life. He realized that he's not getting out of this park without drawing attention, so he kills them quickly and does not get to spend the kind of time the scumbag wants to spend with them. He takes off ASAP and bails town never to return to Delphi, but vowing to find another victim or victims and having a more successful go of it with the next attempt. The cops never catch BG because they're waiting on someone they know to make the one wrong move that they'll never make, and Libby's and Abby's deaths are never avenged.

    I'm going to take a hard right turn on this, but what if LE has absolutely no clue who BG is? What if Libby was catfished on Snapchat and planned a meet up with BG weeks in advance? They knew they were out of school, and that could have been a perfect time to meet up with what they thought was a cute boy they've been talking to for months. BG could have come from anywhere. He could have spent all weekend sizing up the area, planning his attack. I think he planned on abducting them, but he obviously didn't plan on Libby fighting so hard. I think he was doing good to get them both on the ground, and he knew he couldn't handle the both of them any longer so he had to kill them.

    Also, I know I'm out of left field with this one, there is absolutely no way BG is local. My grandma lived in a town double+ the size of Delphi, and she not only knew everyone in town, she knew everyone in the neighboring towns. Basically if she didn't know you, you didn't exist. Not because she was a busy body, but because the town was that dang small of a town. So even if BG's wife was covering for him, there would be 20 other people accusing him, especially if he was active with church or youth sports or whatever. In addition, there's no way this seems like a crime of opportunity for me. Who chooses TWO victims? The likelihood of getting caught seems almost certain. Plus this meeting place just feels so predetermined. Libby even bugged her sister about taking her to park even after she first said no.

    So, in closing, I think BG could have come from anywhere. He posed online as someone else to get the girls' attention. Libby wiped her phone for a reason. He could have even provided her with a burner phone that's never been found. The girls show up at the time and the place they've agreed to meet, knowing they were out of school and parents would be busy with their work week. Then they aren't met by the guy they've chatted with online, but a creeper that they keep seeing on the trail. He's following them around because he's waiting for the perfect time to pounce. He finally approaches, knowing they've got no where to run, and he intends to walk them quietly back to his car where he will leave the scene with the girls never to be heard from again. At this point, Libby decides to fight for her, and even more importantly, Abby's life. He realized that he's not getting out of this park without drawing attention, so he kills them quickly and does not get to spend the kind of time the scumbag wants to spend with them. He takes off ASAP and bails town never to return to Delphi, but vowing to find another victim or victims and having a more successful go of it with the next attempt. The cops never catch BG because they're waiting on someone they know to make the one wrong move that they'll never make, and Libby's and Abby's deaths are never avenged.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous MI
    Nic - I have to disagree with your statement/sentiment about LE holding back evidence of MO. Of course, there are aspects of the crime that must be held back to preserve the investigation and--we all hope--conviction. This includes making sure that the jury is not so tainted with prejudicial information that BG will not be able to receive a fair trial. However, I have not heard anyone explain why knowing the cause of death, e.g., stabbing, strangulation, gun shot, would fail to preserve the integrity of the investigation or so prejudice a potential jury. Some argue (I believe yourself) that the cause of death is salacious, and won't give the public any additional information as to who the killer is. Now, that may be true if the cause of death was strangulation. But, many speculate, including, I believe, the Captain, that the girls were stabbed. If BG's wife--or son--or friend--knew that the girls were stabbed and knew that BG recently "lost" a knife hunting, it may be the final piece in their mind that they need to go to LE. Anyway, just my thoughts. Love the show, been listening since the beginning.

    Nic - I have to disagree with your statement/sentiment about LE holding back evidence of MO. Of course, there are aspects of the crime that must be held back to preserve the investigation and--we all hope--conviction. This includes making sure that the jury is not so tainted with prejudicial information that BG will not be able to receive a fair trial. However, I have not heard anyone explain why knowing the cause of death, e.g., stabbing, strangulation, gun shot, would fail to preserve the integrity of the investigation or so prejudice a potential jury. Some argue (I believe yourself) that the cause of death is salacious, and won't give the public any additional information as to who the killer is. Now, that may be true if the cause of death was strangulation. But, many speculate, including, I believe, the Captain, that the girls were stabbed. If BG's wife--or son--or friend--knew that the girls were stabbed and knew that BG recently "lost" a knife hunting, it may be the final piece in their mind that they need to go to LE. Anyway, just my thoughts. Love the show, been listening since the beginning.

  • Max
    Max ATL
    Guys great work as always, I get more information about this case from you than the LE. Please start covering the Flora fires case. Also, you can be harder on LE in the Delphi case, I won't mind :)

    Guys great work as always, I get more information about this case from you than the LE.
    Please start covering the Flora fires case.
    Also, you can be harder on LE in the Delphi case, I won't mind smile

  • Max
    Max ATL
    Not releasing the profile suggests they don't need the public's help anymore or the constant onslaught of tips and false leads. ISP is saying to the public, we don't need your tips anymore, we know who it is.

    Not releasing the profile suggests they don't need the public's help anymore or the constant onslaught of tips and false leads.

    ISP is saying to the public, we don't need your tips anymore, we know who it is.

  • Ali
    Ali California
    I agree with Aine. I think LE did the Q&A as a means of letting the public know they're still on the case and to reignite some interest in the case, potentially drum up some new tips...but most importantly, to tempt the killer into submitting a question/questions of his own. Maybe he asks something that has the most subtle detail know only to LE? A girl can dream. I hope this one gets solved soon. This and Amy.

    I agree with Aine. I think LE did the Q&A as a means of letting the public know they're still on the case and to reignite some interest in the case, potentially drum up some new tips...but most importantly, to tempt the killer into submitting a question/questions of his own. Maybe he asks something that has the most subtle detail know only to LE? A girl can dream. I hope this one gets solved soon. This and Amy.

  • Faye
    Faye HOOSIER HEARTLAND
    Thank you for not giving up on this case. I will hoist one for you boys at the local VFW tonight.

    Thank you for not giving up on this case. I will hoist one for you boys at the local VFW tonight.

  • L
    L US
    As always, great show guys. Quick question to run by you, Nic. In a comment above you mention both 'your' suspect and The Captain's are well known to LE. How does that jive with Robert Ives recent statements (recently retired Delphi prosecutor)? He's all but flat out said that speculation that the police know who did it and are watching and waiting for a slip up isn't true. Ives said that there was never a time (while he was prosecutor) that there was a strong suspect, and there was never a "if we just had these one or two things, we'd be able to charge this guy" moment. It seems like Ives has been trying to give a little push to get them to release more information publicly. My other question is to The Captain specifically. He says he knows for a fact 'his' suspect's alibi is false. If Captain knows that with certainty, don't you think the police and FBI know that, too? I just do not find it probable that a weak alibi would hold them back from charging. A surprisingly large amount of major-crime cases that go to trial have alibi testimony (usually a family member/spouse lying for them). Unless there's very solid physical evidence that the suspect was elsewhere during the crime (like let's say hypothetically he was at Bible Blast Adventure Park and was on a park security camera riding the Holy Water Rapids Flume ride at 3:00pm 2/13), it's hard to believe an alibi alone would stop them from proceeding.

    As always, great show guys. Quick question to run by you, Nic. In a comment above you mention both 'your' suspect and The Captain's are well known to LE. How does that jive with Robert Ives recent statements (recently retired Delphi prosecutor)? He's all but flat out said that speculation that the police know who did it and are watching and waiting for a slip up isn't true. Ives said that there was never a time (while he was prosecutor) that there was a strong suspect, and there was never a "if we just had these one or two things, we'd be able to charge this guy" moment. It seems like Ives has been trying to give a little push to get them to release more information publicly.

    My other question is to The Captain specifically. He says he knows for a fact 'his' suspect's alibi is false. If Captain knows that with certainty, don't you think the police and FBI know that, too? I just do not find it probable that a weak alibi would hold them back from charging. A surprisingly large amount of major-crime cases that go to trial have alibi testimony (usually a family member/spouse lying for them). Unless there's very solid physical evidence that the suspect was elsewhere during the crime (like let's say hypothetically he was at Bible Blast Adventure Park and was on a park security camera riding the Holy Water Rapids Flume ride at 3:00pm 2/13), it's hard to believe an alibi alone would stop them from proceeding.

  • Luciana S
    Luciana S
    Seeing Abby’s photo on the bridge is so heartbreaking. Those poor girls went from having fun like typical 13/14 year old girls, to shortly after this photo was taken having their lives so heartlessly taken.

    Seeing Abby’s photo on the bridge is so heartbreaking. Those poor girls went from having fun like typical 13/14 year old girls, to shortly after this photo was taken having their lives so heartlessly taken.

  • AG
    AG MA
    What about a certain youth pastor? Kind of falls into the teacher/working with kids category and would explain BG’s calm tone.

    What about a certain youth pastor? Kind of falls into the teacher/working with kids category and would explain BG’s calm tone.

  • Luciana S
    Luciana S
    Manner of death would be homicide, cause od death is what they are keeping from the public. Manner of death is either: homicide, suicide, accident, natural, or unknown. Cause would be something like: blunt force trauma, sharp force trauma, strangulation, etc.

    Manner of death would be homicide, cause od death is what they are keeping from the public. Manner of death is either: homicide, suicide, accident, natural, or unknown. Cause would be something like: blunt force trauma, sharp force trauma, strangulation, etc.

  • B
    B VA
    Love this podcast! Addicted. I have a couple of thoughts in addition to all of your thoughts ( podcasters and listeners alike). You mentioned that there were only 2,500 in the town in the last episode. I think. It can’t take 4 years to to rule out at least most of those people. Kids, women, and maybe 70+ , black, bright red hair. If they had a dna profile, it seems like they could test the remainders or suspects. It’s a little hard to believe they don’t think it’s not rape motivated when they originally looked at all the those type of people in the original investigation. I have a feeling they don’t have dna that can say positively belongs to the killer. Even your guess if a man in prison, they would have his dna. The other thought Is about the gait. I’ve never walked in a bridge like that, but that hair seems exaggerated. Was it a ply to slow down and be near the girls longer? Maybe that is even why one started filming him. It looked stupid. Especially if he walked the bridge before or many times. Maybe if you do visit, you can tell us that.

    Love this podcast! Addicted.

    I have a couple of thoughts in addition to all of your thoughts ( podcasters and listeners alike).

    You mentioned that there were only 2,500 in the town in the last episode. I think. It can’t take 4 years to to rule out at least most of those people. Kids, women, and maybe 70+ , black, bright red hair.

    If they had a dna profile, it seems like they could test the remainders or suspects. It’s a little hard to believe they don’t think it’s not rape motivated when they originally looked at all the those type of people in the original investigation. I have a feeling they don’t have dna that can say positively belongs to the killer.
    Even your guess if a man in prison, they would have his dna.

    The other thought Is about the gait. I’ve never walked in a bridge like that, but that hair seems exaggerated. Was it a ply to slow down and be near the girls longer? Maybe that is even why one started filming him. It looked stupid. Especially if he walked the bridge before or many times.

    Maybe if you do visit, you can tell us that.

  • Alix
    Alix California
    Hi Nic and The Captain, I'm a huge fan. I was thinking about what the Capt'n was saying at the end of Pt. 2 of the recent episodes and doing a little bit of sleuthing which ended up in me searching public records and then the Beacon Map for Carroll County, IN powered by ESRI . Beacon and qPublic.net are interactive public access portals that allow users to view County and City information, public records and Geographical Information Systems (GIS) via an online portal. Regardless, I was looking at area properties near the high bridge to see who in the area would have easy access to this area and knowledge of it. After looking through several properties and doing background research on the owners one in particular stood out to me. Hypothetically speaking, this person would have easy access to the area and knowledge due to the proximity of their property to the high bridge and deer creek. Additionally, this person was born in Carroll County and graduated from Delphi Community High school, but left to attend college. Upon graduating from college this person moved back to Delphi. This person is VERY involved in the community, which imo would make it easy for people to say "he would never do something like this". They also have VERY personal ties to DCSC and would have known that the teachers were in school all day for meetings. Additionally, their job would allow them to come and go as they please. Allowing them to create their own alibi, in the form of a meeting, etc. There would be no accountability for this person. This person also has a connection through their own child/children having attended the schools in the area, but older now which would create an empty home. After committing the murders the person would have been able to flee by foot or even a 4 wheeler to their home and clean off, so to say? I'm clearly jumping to conclusions here and I don't necessarily think this person did something... but I do think that this person should be looked into more, because of everything I listed above. Thanks for all of your dedication, research, and creativity in producing this show. Cheers- Alix

    Hi Nic and The Captain,
    I'm a huge fan. I was thinking about what the Capt'n was saying at the end of Pt. 2 of the recent episodes and doing a little bit of sleuthing which ended up in me searching public records and then the Beacon Map for Carroll County, IN powered by ESRI . Beacon and qPublic.net are interactive public access portals that allow users to view County and City information, public records and Geographical Information Systems (GIS) via an online portal.
    Regardless, I was looking at area properties near the high bridge to see who in the area would have easy access to this area and knowledge of it. After looking through several properties and doing background research on the owners one in particular stood out to me. Hypothetically speaking, this person would have easy access to the area and knowledge due to the proximity of their property to the high bridge and deer creek. Additionally, this person was born in Carroll County and graduated from Delphi Community High school, but left to attend college. Upon graduating from college this person moved back to Delphi. This person is VERY involved in the community, which imo would make it easy for people to say "he would never do something like this". They also have VERY personal ties to DCSC and would have known that the teachers were in school all day for meetings. Additionally, their job would allow them to come and go as they please. Allowing them to create their own alibi, in the form of a meeting, etc. There would be no accountability for this person. This person also has a connection through their own child/children having attended the schools in the area, but older now which would create an empty home. After committing the murders the person would have been able to flee by foot or even a 4 wheeler to their home and clean off, so to say? I'm clearly jumping to conclusions here and I don't necessarily think this person did something... but I do think that this person should be looked into more, because of everything I listed above.
    Thanks for all of your dedication, research, and creativity in producing this show.
    Cheers- Alix

  • M
    M MO
    L How could one (hypothetically) be on an amusement park ride camera at 3p on 2/13 AND also (hypothetically)standing in front of a vast wooden sailing vessel at 3p on 2/13, as the (hypothetical) alibi has posted previously? M

    L
    How could one (hypothetically) be on an amusement park ride camera at 3p on 2/13 AND also (hypothetically)standing in front of a vast wooden sailing vessel at 3p on 2/13, as the (hypothetical) alibi has posted previously?
    M

  • Jerry
    Jerry Beach
    If the unheard and unseen portions of Libby's recording truly do not reveal anything then why not release them? LE's belief that the recording will provide nothing new or helpful to the public could be wrong. LE's track record, four years and no arrests, does not add any credibility to their decisions.

    If the unheard and unseen portions of Libby's recording truly do not reveal anything then why not release them? LE's belief that the recording will provide nothing new or helpful to the public could be wrong. LE's track record, four years and no arrests, does not add any credibility to their decisions.

  • Ed
    Ed IL
    @L - can you see the future? Your example of alibi and picture is basically what just occurred, or appears to have at least, with one of the two prospective suspects.

    @L - can you see the future? Your example of alibi and picture is basically what just occurred, or appears to have at least, with one of the two prospective suspects.

  • Gillian
    Gillian Melbourne, Australia
    If they do have DNA, have the asked the males in Delphi to volunteer their DNA? It happened here on an island and led to the guy who didn’t give DNA being caught

    If they do have DNA, have the asked the males in Delphi to volunteer their DNA? It happened here on an island and led to the guy who didn’t give DNA being caught

  • Stephanie
    Stephanie FL
    I just wanted to say that a signature does not necessarily mean something was written. It means it was something the killer/s did that was unnecessary to the commission crime itself and gives a clue to what was going on in his head. A signature is a tell. When the investigators say the searchers would not understand what they saw, this is what they mean. The investigators saw something as a signature whereas a novice would not possibly see it at all.

    I just wanted to say that a signature does not necessarily mean something was written. It means it was something the killer/s did that was unnecessary to the commission crime itself and gives a clue to what was going on in his head. A signature is a tell. When the investigators say the searchers would not understand what they saw, this is what they mean. The investigators saw something as a signature whereas a novice would not possibly see it at all.

  • Martin
    Martin England
    Nic, is the guy with the initials MH one of your suspects? If not why do you think he is not involved?

    Nic, is the guy with the initials MH one of your suspects? If not why do you think he is not involved?

  • Cassandra
    Cassandra Winnipeg
    Captain’s theory (which by the way is one of the best 5 mins you’ll ever hear on a podcast) would answer a key question. I have never been able to figure out where BG appeared from. He’s not behind Abby in the SC photo and he’s not visible in the front facing photo either. If the suspect came from where Captain thinks he did, on foot, this would bring him out to the side of the end bridge exit, concealed by the woods. BG steps out, walks onto the bridge, passes the girls, stops, turns around then approaches them with the LE ruse. If you look this up on the map it’s truly jaw-dropping

    Captain’s theory (which by the way is one of the best 5 mins you’ll ever hear on a podcast) would answer a key question.

    I have never been able to figure out where BG appeared from. He’s not behind Abby in the SC photo and he’s not visible in the front facing photo either. If the suspect came from where Captain thinks he did, on foot, this would bring him out to the side of the end bridge exit, concealed by the woods.

    BG steps out, walks onto the bridge, passes the girls, stops, turns around then approaches them with the LE ruse. If you look this up on the map it’s truly jaw-dropping

  • J
    J Las Vegas
    Without naming names or going into details, please can you explain why Nic and Captain are so divided on who BG is? Captain seems convinced his suspect is BG, whereas Nic doesn’t think it’s him and instead is opting for someone who is in jail and (also admits needs to do more research on). This really doesn’t make sense - BG is after all only one man. Personally I love captain’s theory but I’d be interested why you two (who I admire greatly) seem so divided on this. cheers

    Without naming names or going into details, please can you explain why Nic and Captain are so divided on who BG is? Captain seems convinced his suspect is BG, whereas Nic doesn’t think it’s him and instead is opting for someone who is in jail and (also admits needs to do more research on).

    This really doesn’t make sense - BG is after all only one man. Personally I love captain’s theory but I’d be interested why you two (who I admire greatly) seem so divided on this. cheers

  • Rob
    Rob Colorado
    Nic, Cap, Saw the article below this morning on Yahoo...16 year old found deceased yesterday on a trail after leaving home for a walk. Kenockee Township, MI is roughly 5 hours from Delphi. Using Google Maps, Mill Creek Trestle photos look eerily similar to the Monon High Bridge. Thought you might want to keep an eye on this. https://www.yahoo.com/news/body-missing-girl-16-found-050200660.html

    Nic, Cap,

    Saw the article below this morning on Yahoo...16 year old found deceased yesterday on a trail after leaving home for a walk. Kenockee Township, MI is roughly 5 hours from Delphi. Using Google Maps, Mill Creek Trestle photos look eerily similar to the Monon High Bridge. Thought you might want to keep an eye on this. https://www.yahoo.com/news/body-missing-girl-16-found-050200660.html

  • Jarrett
    Jarrett Alberta, Canada
    This is just a curiosity more than anything to me.. How do Cap and Colonel know about suspects that are not familiar to the public.. They are civilians just like us, no? I'm guessing deep research? My fav podcast, fellas.. I still say Nic sounds like Chris Berman from espn

    This is just a curiosity more than anything to me.. How do Cap and Colonel know about suspects that are not familiar to the public.. They are civilians just like us, no? I'm guessing deep research?

    My fav podcast, fellas.. I still say Nic sounds like Chris Berman from espn

  • Mel
    Mel Parts unknown
    Looking from another angle- if school had been in that day, how likely would it be that other people would be out on the trail? Instead of being someone out there looking for a target (on a work/school day), could it have been someone out there to do something completely different, who was surprised by witnesses who would not normally be around?

    Looking from another angle- if school had been in that day, how likely would it be that other people would be out on the trail? Instead of being someone out there looking for a target (on a work/school day), could it have been someone out there to do something completely different, who was surprised by witnesses who would not normally be around?

  • Kevin
    Kevin Parts unknown
    I think bridge guy is a fisherman. If he frequently fished that area he would be familiar with the layout of the land as he needed to be to commit this crime. I think he forced the girls across the river. Someone who frequently fished this area would know exactly where easily was able Spots to cross were. Lastly, his ability to seemingly exit the trail system without being parked anywhere obvious. As a fisherman you often have to find (semi) legal parking as close to your intended spot to reduce time walking and/or get around private property. It’s entirely possible he parked somewhere mostly inconspicuous, walked in like he would to fish and instead was looking for victims.

    I think bridge guy is a fisherman. If he frequently fished that area he would be familiar with the layout of the land as he needed to be to commit this crime. I think he forced the girls across the river. Someone who frequently fished this area would know exactly where easily was able
    Spots to cross were. Lastly, his ability to seemingly exit the trail system without being parked anywhere obvious. As a fisherman you often have to find (semi) legal parking as close to your intended spot to reduce time walking and/or get around private property. It’s entirely possible he parked somewhere mostly inconspicuous, walked in like he would to fish and instead was looking for victims.

  • Megan
    Megan VA
    I am just so concerned this case will not be solved. I hope I am wrong.

    I am just so concerned this case will not be solved. I hope I am wrong.

  • Joe
    Joe NH
    @Nic: Regarding the profile, while I’d also like to see it, I think there are several legitimate reasons why they may not want to release it, including: 1) It doesn’t fit their suspect(s). Let’s face it, not all profiles are accurate and if they have a suspect or suspects that they’re focusing on, they may not want to a) steer tips in another direction and b) have to later explain why the profile doesn’t fit. 2) It *fits* their suspect(s) and they don’t want to be accused in court of railroading someone by releasing a profile that conveniently fits a suspect that they hadn’t yet identified. 3) They don’t have a suspect but local LE don’t agree with the profile or it doesn’t match what they think they have with the sketch (e.g. age is off). I think 1 or 2 are more likely as I really think they’d release the profile if they really had no viable suspects. Love the show.

    @Nic: Regarding the profile, while I’d also like to see it, I think there are several legitimate reasons why they may not want to release it, including:

    1) It doesn’t fit their suspect(s). Let’s face it, not all profiles are accurate and if they have a suspect or suspects that they’re focusing on, they may not want to a) steer tips in another direction and b) have to later explain why the profile doesn’t fit.
    2) It *fits* their suspect(s) and they don’t want to be accused in court of railroading someone by releasing a profile that conveniently fits a suspect that they hadn’t yet identified.
    3) They don’t have a suspect but local LE don’t agree with the profile or it doesn’t match what they think they have with the sketch (e.g. age is off).

    I think 1 or 2 are more likely as I really think they’d release the profile if they really had no viable suspects.

    Love the show.

  • Katie
    Katie NC
    I believe I know who the Captain is referring to---and I agree strongly that he is an excellent suspect. The way he talks sounds to me like he is used to being in a position of authority at work, and he also gives off very strong dad vibes. He is also wearing very stereotypical middle-aged "dad jeans" and a windbreaker. I think the wife who is giving this alibi is consumed with appearances, and is most likely too selfish/narcissistic/crazy to notice or to care about the lack of relationship she has with her husband---who I believe would have an all-consuming online fantasy world and probably a pornography/voyeuristic addiction. I think this was his finally acting out his fantasies in real life--not someone who has a history of petty crime or violence. This guy is possibly even very mild-mannered and professional in his work life. However, I'm sure there are instances of women whom he has known getting a "creepy" vibe off of him. Maybe someone he has worked with or known has heard him say something inappropriate, but would never think he would be capable of something like this. I'm sure with an educated, professional, "upstanding "member of the community, LE has to be extra careful. As the guys mention in the podcast, this is a relatively short amount of time BG would have had to have been unaccounted for. Perhaps the wife was running around with the kids that afternoon, and he was left at home by himself. By the time they got back from their errands, he would have been back to his home nearby. Man, I hope this case is solved soon. Thanks as always for a great episode.

    I believe I know who the Captain is referring to---and I agree strongly that he is an excellent suspect. The way he talks sounds to me like he is used to being in a position of authority at work, and he also gives off very strong dad vibes. He is also wearing very stereotypical middle-aged "dad jeans" and a windbreaker. I think the wife who is giving this alibi is consumed with appearances, and is most likely too selfish/narcissistic/crazy to notice or to care about the lack of relationship she has with her husband---who I believe would have an all-consuming online fantasy world and probably a pornography/voyeuristic addiction. I think this was his finally acting out his fantasies in real life--not someone who has a history of petty crime or violence.
    This guy is possibly even very mild-mannered and professional in his work life. However, I'm sure there are instances of women whom he has known getting a "creepy" vibe off of him. Maybe someone he has worked with or known has heard him say something inappropriate, but would never think he would be capable of something like this.
    I'm sure with an educated, professional, "upstanding "member of the community, LE has to be extra careful.
    As the guys mention in the podcast, this is a relatively short amount of time BG would have had to have been unaccounted for. Perhaps the wife was running around with the kids that afternoon, and he was left at home by himself. By the time they got back from their errands, he would have been back to his home nearby.
    Man, I hope this case is solved soon. Thanks as always for a great episode.

  • Shandis
    Shandis British Columbia
    Hi, I just wanted to comment on an aspect of part 5. You talked about how much he uses the word “shall.” You have also discussed the possibility of him having been in the navy. I am a deckhand and working towards my officers ticket. I suggest you look into the Marine Collision Regulations People in the marine industry must know these regulation and the amount the word “shall” appears is absurd.

    Hi, I just wanted to comment on an aspect of part 5. You talked about how much he uses the word “shall.” You have also discussed the possibility of him having been in the navy. I am a deckhand and working towards my officers ticket. I suggest you look into the Marine Collision Regulations People in the marine industry must know these regulation and the amount the word “shall” appears is absurd.

  • Marcie
    Marcie Denver
    Cassandra’s post is spot-on to what I’ve wondered. As well as wondering if this wasn’t a simple “trespassing case.” Maybe by a pissed-off landowner or a child of a landowner. Clearly this perp knew the land. In Colorado we are so familiar with Kirlin v Stevens but I don’t know what the adverse-possession/trespassing laws are in IN.

    Cassandra’s post is spot-on to what I’ve wondered.

    As well as wondering if this wasn’t a simple “trespassing case.” Maybe by a pissed-off landowner or a child of a landowner. Clearly this perp knew the land.

    In Colorado we are so familiar with Kirlin v Stevens but I don’t know what the adverse-possession/trespassing laws are in IN.

  • Jamie
    Jamie New York
    This is just a hunch but I kept thinking about Israel Keyes during this episode. I think the location was chosen first and I wonder if a “kill kit” was planted beforehand a la Keyes. Maybe this guy was a fan. I think he was alone and had gotten extremely familiar with the park and his plan. He just needed the right victims. School was out that day? Was this a bus driver? This would also afford some time in the afternoons to scope out the park as well as make him familiar with kids.

    This is just a hunch but I kept thinking about Israel Keyes during this episode. I think the location was chosen first and I wonder if a “kill kit” was planted beforehand a la Keyes. Maybe this guy was a fan. I think he was alone and had gotten extremely familiar with the park and his plan. He just needed the right victims. School was out that day? Was this a bus driver? This would also afford some time in the afternoons to scope out the park as well as make him familiar with kids.

  • Rich
    Rich FL
    So here's something that's been bothering me and I don't remember it being mentioned on the podcast. Why would Libby take the time and effort to video the Bridge Guy? If she felt any sort of danger, wouldn't she have turned tail and run rather than get out her phone and start video taping this guy? This leads me to believe that, at least at first, she didn't sense any danger and probably knew him? I don't know. Something about that seems strange to me. I'd love to know everyone's thoughts on that.

    So here's something that's been bothering me and I don't remember it being mentioned on the podcast. Why would Libby take the time and effort to video the Bridge Guy? If she felt any sort of danger, wouldn't she have turned tail and run rather than get out her phone and start video taping this guy? This leads me to believe that, at least at first, she didn't sense any danger and probably knew him? I don't know. Something about that seems strange to me. I'd love to know everyone's thoughts on that.

  • Kayla
    Kayla Ontario
    Rich - they started filming him because they were weirded out/scared by him. Remember- they had already been face to face with him when he passed them coming from the other end of the bridge. A common new theory is that when they passed they slighted him in some way - either didn’t make way for him or laughed/giggled/looked funny at him and this made him flip. Captains’s suspect, who lives nearby got married to his first wife on that exact day many years ago - he no longer gets on with her at all and she now has 2 teenage twin girls of this age. All these could have led to him being triggered into carrying out the crimes (which he may not have set out to do - he may have been just out for a walk and just lost it, explaining why the case is still so hard to make sense of)

    Rich - they started filming him because they were weirded out/scared by him. Remember- they had already been face to face with him when he passed them coming from the other end of the bridge.

    A common new theory is that when they passed they slighted him in some way - either didn’t make way for him or laughed/giggled/looked funny at him and this made him flip.

    Captains’s suspect, who lives nearby got married to his first wife on that exact day many years ago - he no longer gets on with her at all and she now has 2 teenage twin girls of this age. All these could have led to him being triggered into carrying out the crimes (which he may not have set out to do - he may have been just out for a walk and just lost it, explaining why the case is still so hard to make sense of)

  • Kayla
    Kayla Ontario
    Nic thanks for replying to me - much appreciated. I have listened to the podcast from the start and am a die-hard fan which makes what I’m about to say quite hard. Because we all love you and Captain and respect you both, we understandably believe what you tell us. Therefore if captain gives his big Noah’s ark speech and basically names the guy we will not only thank captain but not mind that the guy’s been identified because he would be a POS. Now you just say, in a one line comment “oh yeah it wasn’t that guy he had an alibi and was elsewhere” - so seriously guys, which version should we believe (and if what you say is true, why in earth are we trashing captain’s suspect?). Please don’t take this as a criticism- you guys are like family to us and we love you till the end but this isn’t right

    Nic thanks for replying to me - much appreciated. I have listened to the podcast from the start and am a die-hard fan which makes what I’m about to say quite hard.

    Because we all love you and Captain and respect you both, we understandably believe what you tell us. Therefore if captain gives his big Noah’s ark speech and basically names the guy we will not only thank captain but not mind that the guy’s been identified because he would be a POS.

    Now you just say, in a one line comment “oh yeah it wasn’t that guy he had an alibi and was elsewhere” - so seriously guys, which version should we believe (and if what you say is true, why in earth are we trashing captain’s suspect?).

    Please don’t take this as a criticism- you guys are like family to us and we love you till the end but this isn’t right

  • Kayla
    Kayla Ontario
    Nic thanks for replying to me - I really appreciate it. I guess the take away from this is that although you and Captain do have different opinions, True Crime Garage is one podcast and essentially has one voice. Unfortunately if you now google captain’s suspect’s name or put it into YouTube it comes up as being associated with the murders. As they said in “The Social Network” - the internet is written in ink so this seems really unfair if he’s completely innocent. The irony, of course, is you didn’t give any info out about your suspect even though he’s in jail so if anyone should have been outed it really should have been him and not captain’s suspect. Overall though I guess my main frustration isn’t with you or Captain but the fact that this complete POS still hasn’t been brought to justice and we got some false hope for a while. For a few weeks we knew who BG was, now will we ever know? Anyway much love to you and the Captain and thanks for all you do - you two are the best.

    Nic thanks for replying to me - I really appreciate it. I guess the take away from this is that although you and Captain do have different opinions, True Crime Garage is one podcast and essentially has one voice.

    Unfortunately if you now google captain’s suspect’s name or put it into YouTube it comes up as being associated with the murders. As they said in “The Social Network” - the internet is written in ink so this seems really unfair if he’s completely innocent.

    The irony, of course, is you didn’t give any info out about your suspect even though he’s in jail so if anyone should have been outed it really should have been him and not captain’s suspect.

    Overall though I guess my main frustration isn’t with you or Captain but the fact that this complete POS still hasn’t been brought to justice and we got some false hope for a while. For a few weeks we knew who BG was, now will we ever know?

    Anyway much love to you and the Captain and thanks for all you do - you two are the best.

  • Jarrett
    Jarrett AB
    Dropping in late here... but a certain pastor in the area fits the bill quite well.. maybe the $100k that was just donated to this case will help bring out the truth...

    Dropping in late here... but a certain pastor in the area fits the bill quite well.. maybe the $100k that was just donated to this case will help bring out the truth...

  • Timmy
    Timmy New York
    Ok so this may sound weird but stick with me. Who thinks they can see Bridge guy spitting in the video? If you can then it will become very, very obvious who BG is likely to be. You’ll need to do some digging on YouTube, but Lordy Lordy it will be worth it mates.....

    Ok so this may sound weird but stick with me. Who thinks they can see Bridge guy spitting in the video? If you can then it will become very, very obvious who BG is likely to be. You’ll need to do some digging on YouTube, but Lordy Lordy it will be worth it mates.....

  • CBH
    CBH NC
    Hoping that the recent arrest is linked to Abby and Libby’s murderer, especially through DNA. Is it just me or does the man arrested in the last day or two look like an in-between of the two composite sketches? Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, but it seems like his face links the two different sketches. So thankful that the young girl that was taken has been rescued and can begin the long, important healing process from what she went through at the hands of this person?/man?/monster? Cheers to Nic, Captian and the TCG Army!

    Hoping that the recent arrest is linked to Abby and Libby’s murderer, especially through DNA. Is it just me or does the man arrested in the last day or two look like an in-between of the two composite sketches? Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, but it seems like his face links the two different sketches. So thankful that the young girl that was taken has been rescued and can begin the long, important healing process from what she went through at the hands of this person?/man?/monster?
    Cheers to Nic, Captian and the TCG Army!

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Yes, Cheers to CBH! Cheers to the Captain! Cheers to TCG Army! Let's all send out some super good vibes and pray that the Bridge Monster is outed and apprehended soon!!! Best, Nic

    Yes, Cheers to CBH! Cheers to the Captain! Cheers to TCG Army!
    Let's all send out some super good vibes and pray that the Bridge Monster is outed and apprehended soon!!!
    Best, Nic

  • Jack
    Jack MD
    Just a new take on the BG picture I can't shake and thought people might find interesting. I think BG has a dog/puppy under his jacket. Would explain the weird lumpiness, unsureness about his weight, and now that I think that's what I'm seeing my eyes can't unsee it. Makes some other things make sense too, the "odd" crime scene or potential signature, evidence of a dog being at the scene of a murder certainly fits. Explains why a teen girl may take a picture of a guy from a distance but not feel compelled to call 911. It's just a dude with a puppy in his jacket. Even makes sense as to why, he didn't want the puppy to cross the rickety bridge on foot. Just my two cents but now I can't unsee it. Also makes sense why police would release this photo in the first place. We've argued till we're blue in the face on what info this picture actually gives us, but if the information it was actually giving us was that the killer had a dog with him that day, it's a huge piece of evidence.

    Just a new take on the BG picture I can't shake and thought people might find interesting.

    I think BG has a dog/puppy under his jacket. Would explain the weird lumpiness, unsureness about his weight, and now that I think that's what I'm seeing my eyes can't unsee it.

    Makes some other things make sense too, the "odd" crime scene or potential signature, evidence of a dog being at the scene of a murder certainly fits.

    Explains why a teen girl may take a picture of a guy from a distance but not feel compelled to call 911. It's just a dude with a puppy in his jacket.

    Even makes sense as to why, he didn't want the puppy to cross the rickety bridge on foot.

    Just my two cents but now I can't unsee it. Also makes sense why police would release this photo in the first place. We've argued till we're blue in the face on what info this picture actually gives us, but if the information it was actually giving us was that the killer had a dog with him that day, it's a huge piece of evidence.

  • Jack
    Jack MD
    As a follow up to my last post, this would lead me to look at a certain new POI. The POI clearly has access to dogs and puppies, and even more so the kind that would look similar to the one in the BG photo. This thought can't leave my head now that I see it. I think it connects all the dots. All the reasons of opportunity, victimology. Young girls would be a higher "priority" target if you are using a dog or puppy as your ruse. The new POI used this has his ruse in his most recent crime. It even harkens back to the Iowa case, from court records in Iowa the new POI in this case has ties dating back to 2010 so before the Evansdale murders, and again could be along the same lines. A dog being used in the ruse of two young girls. I cannot shake the feeling that the dog is the missing puzzle piece in all of this, and once you have that it makes everything make so much more sense from law enforcement comments, to victimology. Just try looking at the picture with a blank mind and see if this is something that you can see, and once you do, I promise it's tough to shake. Today's the day!

    As a follow up to my last post, this would lead me to look at a certain new POI. The POI clearly has access to dogs and puppies, and even more so the kind that would look similar to the one in the BG photo.

    This thought can't leave my head now that I see it. I think it connects all the dots. All the reasons of opportunity, victimology.

    Young girls would be a higher "priority" target if you are using a dog or puppy as your ruse. The new POI used this has his ruse in his most recent crime.

    It even harkens back to the Iowa case, from court records in Iowa the new POI in this case has ties dating back to 2010 so before the Evansdale murders, and again could be along the same lines. A dog being used in the ruse of two young girls.

    I cannot shake the feeling that the dog is the missing puzzle piece in all of this, and once you have that it makes everything make so much more sense from law enforcement comments, to victimology.

    Just try looking at the picture with a blank mind and see if this is something that you can see, and once you do, I promise it's tough to shake.

    Today's the day!

  • Jack
    Jack MD
    May officially be obsessed, but the dog would be in a sling. I found three or four versions that would work and not be visible under the jacket in the BG picture but would hold the dog/puppy right where the head would be poking out of the jacket. Something like this. https://www.chewy.com/furryfido-adjustable-dog-cat-carrier/dp/162678?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=FurryFido&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8JHP3uWt8AIV1t7ICh1k5AJWEAkYCSABEgJPJPD_BwE

    May officially be obsessed, but the dog would be in a sling.

    I found three or four versions that would work and not be visible under the jacket in the BG picture but would hold the dog/puppy right where the head would be poking out of the jacket.

    Something like this.

    https://www.chewy.com/furryfido-adjustable-dog-cat-carrier/dp/162678?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=FurryFido&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8JHP3uWt8AIV1t7ICh1k5AJWEAkYCSABEgJPJPD_BwE

  • Anon
    Anon PU
    Dog Theory: I think BG is carrying a dog underneath his jacket in photo released by police. I think this helps explain the situation from the evidence we know. The dog or puppy would be in a carrier, you can find one that looks similar with a quick Google search. The head is poking out from the jacket and is right under his chin. This is how BG chooses his victims. He either uses it as an easy approach or he lets his victim interact with the dogs. I think this explains why two teenage girls would pull their phone out and start recording from a distance, but not necessarily call 911. They are already on the other side of the bridge, and BG is already halfway to them so they have to wait it out. The first interaction between BG and the girls. I believe this could even be captured on audio and hasn't been released because it's very clear that dogs are present (barking, yipping) or the girls started the conversation and the police don't want any victim blaming to be done. I think this also explains part of what has never sit well with me, that the one LE statement saying that they weren't concerned for the public at large. This would make sense if he didn't initially snatch them, but rather they started the conversation or interaction by wanting to pet or see the dog/puppy. I think that he could have even been directing all three down the hill (girls and puppy) and that would explain his voice that he doesn't seem super stressed, simply because it hasn't quite gotten to that point. The second interaction. This is when things would have gone bad. This would be when the girls either are picking up that something is off or he can't control himself any longer. I think he wanted to redirect them to somewhere (not necessarily even the down the hill phrase, just in general to relocate them) and this is when they either fought back or informed him he was on camera and he released it was a life or death situation. Then he left. I think that LE statements make sense when thinking he had a dog or puppy with him. It would be a signature or odd crime scene. I think it could explain the vast difference in sketches, one is BG with the puppy almost entirely concealed (picture) before the crime, and the second is no hat/after the crime with no other clothing on than his single layer, likely looking far younger and especially so if he has a dog/puppy with him. I know this is just a theory, but the picture combined with all the other known statements and even some rumors, it's hard for me to shake.

    Dog Theory:

    I think BG is carrying a dog underneath his jacket in photo released by police. I think this helps explain the situation from the evidence we know.

    The dog or puppy would be in a carrier, you can find one that looks similar with a quick Google search. The head is poking out from the jacket and is right under his chin.

    This is how BG chooses his victims. He either uses it as an easy approach or he lets his victim interact with the dogs. I think this explains why two teenage girls would pull their phone out and start recording from a distance, but not necessarily call 911.

    They are already on the other side of the bridge, and BG is already halfway to them so they have to wait it out.

    The first interaction between BG and the girls. I believe this could even be captured on audio and hasn't been released because it's very clear that dogs are present (barking, yipping) or the girls started the conversation and the police don't want any victim blaming to be done. I think this also explains part of what has never sit well with me, that the one LE statement saying that they weren't concerned for the public at large. This would make sense if he didn't initially snatch them, but rather they started the conversation or interaction by wanting to pet or see the dog/puppy.

    I think that he could have even been directing all three down the hill (girls and puppy) and that would explain his voice that he doesn't seem super stressed, simply because it hasn't quite gotten to that point.

    The second interaction. This is when things would have gone bad. This would be when the girls either are picking up that something is off or he can't control himself any longer. I think he wanted to redirect them to somewhere (not necessarily even the down the hill phrase, just in general to relocate them) and this is when they either fought back or informed him he was on camera and he released it was a life or death situation.

    Then he left. I think that LE statements make sense when thinking he had a dog or puppy with him. It would be a signature or odd crime scene. I think it could explain the vast difference in sketches, one is BG with the puppy almost entirely concealed (picture) before the crime, and the second is no hat/after the crime with no other clothing on than his single layer, likely looking far younger and especially so if he has a dog/puppy with him.

    I know this is just a theory, but the picture combined with all the other known statements and even some rumors, it's hard for me to shake.

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo
    It gave me chills to see how close the new suspect fits the sketch(es), and has the same build of BG. I am waiting to hear an audio clip of his voice. Can't imagine what that little girl experienced but grateful she was found before it was too late. This guy is a monster regardless of whether he is BG or not and I hope it's not wrong to say I want him to be BG so there can be justice for Abby and Libby and one less evil piece of s*#% rotting away.

    It gave me chills to see how close the new suspect fits the sketch(es), and has the same build of BG. I am waiting to hear an audio clip of his voice. Can't imagine what that little girl experienced but grateful she was found before it was too late. This guy is a monster regardless of whether he is BG or not and I hope it's not wrong to say I want him to be BG so there can be justice for Abby and Libby and one less evil piece of s*#% rotting away.

  • Candice
    Candice Wyoming
    Can everyone please stop going on about dogs -we all know BG creeped the girls out, he didn’t entice them with anything- that’s why they video recorded him (they were scared). Quite frankly this whole thing is now sounding ridiculous- suspect after suspect, ruse after ruse when in fact this is a very simple, awful murder committed by one person who most believe is now in jail (not this new POS)

    Can everyone please stop going on about dogs -we all know BG creeped the girls out, he didn’t entice them with anything- that’s why they video recorded him (they were scared).

    Quite frankly this whole thing is now sounding ridiculous- suspect after suspect, ruse after ruse when in fact this is a very simple, awful murder committed by one person who most believe is now in jail (not this new POS)

  • John bruce
    John bruce Michigan
    I was watching a documentary on this and in the beginning they said that the owner of the land on the other side of the bridge gave them permission to film on the land but didn't want to be recorded or seen on tv. THAT'S SUSPICIOUS TO ME. If that is him in the video I can see why he wouldn't want to be seen or heard since both his voice and face is in the video. My question...has anyone looked at the land owner?

    I was watching a documentary on this and in the beginning they said that the owner of the land on the other side of the bridge gave them permission to film on the land but didn't want to be recorded or seen on tv. THAT'S SUSPICIOUS TO ME. If that is him in the video I can see why he wouldn't want to be seen or heard since both his voice and face is in the video. My question...has anyone looked at the land owner?

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi John - I believe that is Ron Logan, if so he has done several on camera interviews early on. He ran into some unrelated legal troubles and probably wants to help but on the advice of council or by helping and getting burned before wants to be a little more anonymous. Someone chime in if I have the wrong property owner. Other considerations would be this person might be worried that BG is still out there and regardless of how big of a coward we all know BG to be - he's definitely dumb enough to act impulsively. Cheers Nic

    Hi John - I believe that is Ron Logan, if so he has done several on camera interviews early on. He ran into some unrelated legal troubles and probably wants to help but on the advice of council or by helping and getting burned before wants to be a little more anonymous.
    Someone chime in if I have the wrong property owner. Other considerations would be this person might be worried that BG is still out there and regardless of how big of a coward we all know BG to be - he's definitely dumb enough to act impulsively.
    Cheers Nic

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