Delphi Murders Revisited /// 320 /// 321

43 comments

  • Jennifer Peters

    Jennifer Peters Terre Haute, Indiana

    This state has been torn upside down over these two innocent children’s murders. It really hits close to home. Glad you guys are covering. But hopefully after the last couple days they have found the murder it will take some time to prove. Let’s hope these families finally get answers! . It’s on News 13 out of Indianapolis.

    This state has been torn upside down over these two innocent children’s murders. It really hits close to home. Glad you guys are covering. But hopefully after the last couple days they have found the murder it will take some time to prove. Let’s hope these families finally get answers! . It’s on News 13 out of Indianapolis.

  • Marie

    Marie Canada

    Everyone keeps saying the guy on the bridge is wearing a flap jack hat..and the sketch shows a beret type hat. To me it looks like he's wearing a camo trucker ball cap and has long hair which is what makes it look like a different style of hat. Anyone else or just me?

    Everyone keeps saying the guy on the bridge is wearing a flap jack hat..and the sketch shows a beret type hat. To me it looks like he's wearing a camo trucker ball cap and has long hair which is what makes it look like a different style of hat. Anyone else or just me?

  • Carlos Lam

    Carlos Lam

    Great episode, dudes! FYI: operating a vehicle as a habitual traffic violator (aka HTV) is a level 6 felony here in Indiana. If Mr. Logan was already CONVICTED of that offense at the time of the Delphi murders (Feb-2017), then his DNA was indeed in government possession. Indiana Code section 10-13-6-10 was amended in 2017 to require that DNA be collected for all persons ARRESTED for a felony, but the amendment didn't become effective until 01/01/2018.

    Great episode, dudes! FYI: operating a vehicle as a habitual traffic violator (aka HTV) is a level 6 felony here in Indiana. If Mr. Logan was already CONVICTED of that offense at the time of the Delphi murders (Feb-2017), then his DNA was indeed in government possession. Indiana Code section 10-13-6-10 was amended in 2017 to require that DNA be collected for all persons ARRESTED for a felony, but the amendment didn't become effective until 01/01/2018.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you Carlos! Cheers Nic

    Thank you Carlos!
    Cheers Nic

  • Michael

    Michael Burlington,Indiana

    They have someone that they wanted DNA from but isn’t a suspect He kidnapped and rapped a woman a woman 20 min west of Delphi in a big city so I’m sure they are just trying to rule him out but it does show that they do have DNA to test against There is another case about 10 min from Delphi in a small town of flora it’s also in Carroll county 4 girls all 10 and under that were killed in a fire that someone intentionally set this happens just a few months before the Delphi murders not sure if there is enough information about the case for you to make a show on but you might look into that I’m sure it has nothing to do with the Delphi case but very close together

    They have someone that they wanted DNA from but isn’t a suspect He kidnapped and rapped a woman a woman 20 min west of Delphi in a big city so I’m sure they are just trying to rule him out but it does show that they do have DNA to test against There is another case about 10 min from Delphi in a small town of flora it’s also in Carroll county 4 girls all 10 and under that were killed in a fire that someone intentionally set this happens just a few months before the Delphi murders not sure if there is enough information about the case for you to make a show on but you might look into that I’m sure it has nothing to do with the Delphi case but very close together

  • Ginny

    Ginny Florida

    I question the DNA also. The timeline for this crime is so small that I find it hard to believe that one person was able to kill 2 teenage girls and get away from the scene without leaving anything behind.Was murder the only intention? Did he go on a hike with the intention and "equipment" to do this without leaving any DNA evidence? That seems so unlikely. There is so much we don't know, but this crime (the murder and whatever else happened) would have been done quickly. I know water can destroy/damage DNA , but they were found shortly after they disappeared and not submerged. I hope they solve it. So sad.

    I question the DNA also. The timeline for this crime is so small that I find it hard to believe that one person was able to kill 2 teenage girls and get away from the scene without leaving anything behind.Was murder the only intention? Did he go on a hike with the intention and "equipment" to do this without leaving any DNA evidence? That seems so unlikely. There is so much we don't know, but this crime (the murder and whatever else happened) would have been done quickly. I know water can destroy/damage DNA , but they were found shortly after they disappeared and not submerged. I hope they solve it. So sad.

  • mG

    mG

    I guess everybody has hope that Detective CODIS will solve it, that seems to be the only thing that ever solves a cold case today. Certainly they have tested whatever DNA they have and nothing hit. The sketch is worthless (they almost always are). The voice is worthless. After the Golden State Killer was captured everybody got this false sense that CODIS would catch all the bad guys, we just have to be patient. But no matches are showing up and there is zero evidence being worked. Sadly, I have little confidence here.

    I guess everybody has hope that Detective CODIS will solve it, that seems to be the only thing that ever solves a cold case today. Certainly they have tested whatever DNA they have and nothing hit. The sketch is worthless (they almost always are). The voice is worthless. After the Golden State Killer was captured everybody got this false sense that CODIS would catch all the bad guys, we just have to be patient. But no matches are showing up and there is zero evidence being worked. Sadly, I have little confidence here.

  • Amanda Skogen

    Amanda Skogen Washington

    Love the extra info on the timeline here. I was enjoying the back and forth between Nic and the Captain regarding the DNA. I talked to my dad, who is a retired child sex crimes detective of 40 years, and while the laws are different in each state, he cleared a few things up for me. An arrest doesn't require DNA. What does require a DNA sample is a warrant. Even if I've been arrested on suspicion of murder, they cannot require me to provide a DNA sample without a warrant signed by a judge. Also, regarding Nations, MOST people who are required to be registered sex offenders do have their DNA in a state registry. That is part of the gig of the pervert roundup. He did say that not all who are required to be registered sex offenders are required to provide their DNA, but the vast majority do. So, that would lead me to believe that they do not have the suspects DNA, because they would have been able to easily compare it to Nations DNA that is most likely on file.

    Love the extra info on the timeline here. I was enjoying the back and forth between Nic and the Captain regarding the DNA. I talked to my dad, who is a retired child sex crimes detective of 40 years, and while the laws are different in each state, he cleared a few things up for me. An arrest doesn't require DNA. What does require a DNA sample is a warrant. Even if I've been arrested on suspicion of murder, they cannot require me to provide a DNA sample without a warrant signed by a judge. Also, regarding Nations, MOST people who are required to be registered sex offenders do have their DNA in a state registry. That is part of the gig of the pervert roundup. He did say that not all who are required to be registered sex offenders are required to provide their DNA, but the vast majority do. So, that would lead me to believe that they do not have the suspects DNA, because they would have been able to easily compare it to Nations DNA that is most likely on file.

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    The clothing that bridge guy is wearing automatically puts him in the 42 plus age range to me. Nobody under that age wears dad jeans like that. Also, the "Guys, down the hill" audio is significant to me because it tells me a few things. First of all, calling the girls "guys" is a colloquialism that not everyone uses when there is a disparity in age like there appears to be to me. It suggests a certain familiarity with the individuals or the types of individual you are speaking with. For instance, the two classes of people I can think of that would be male and calling young ladies "guys" would be a) a teacher b) a parent . Also, the inflection in his voice seems to be giving somewhat of a warning. Like "guys....don't go that way! go this way, down the hill...." But the way he is saying it is lacking fear or panic. He was in total control of the situation, yet not close enough to the girls that he would be able to force them in a certain direction through physical contact. Or be able to keep Libby from using her phone for that matter. This all culminates to tell me that he most likely had a gun and that is how he kept two girls from fleeing. That is not to say the gun is the murder weapon. But if I were a betting person, I would put money on him having one. That opens up a whole other scope to the profile of who this person was. It would mean he was someone who always or mostly carried a firearm. Or it would be someone who came prepared. If he came prepared, he couldn't have been prepared to meet Abby and Libby since their trip was last minute and almost didn't happen. I know it sounds like wild speculation but it really isn't if you use deductive reasoning and remove the impossible. One more thing the audio tells me: If I am in the middle of a crime unfolding, and I have the presence of mind to record audio of the person's voice, and I personally know the perp, I am going to record myself saying their name, like "Bob, why are you doing this?" Or something like that. Because of this, I believe it's very likely the girls did not know the perp. I have more to say and could probably discuss this for hours, but when I am just writing my thoughts without the format of a dialogue with someone else, I cant ever seem to remember succinctly what I have to say lol

    The clothing that bridge guy is wearing automatically puts him in the 42 plus age range to me. Nobody under that age wears dad jeans like that. Also, the "Guys, down the hill" audio is significant to me because it tells me a few things. First of all, calling the girls "guys" is a colloquialism that not everyone uses when there is a disparity in age like there appears to be to me. It suggests a certain familiarity with the individuals or the types of individual you are speaking with. For instance, the two classes of people I can think of that would be male and calling young ladies "guys" would be a) a teacher b) a parent .

    Also, the inflection in his voice seems to be giving somewhat of a warning. Like "guys....don't go that way! go this way, down the hill...." But the way he is saying it is lacking fear or panic. He was in total control of the situation, yet not close enough to the girls that he would be able to force them in a certain direction through physical contact. Or be able to keep Libby from using her phone for that matter. This all culminates to tell me that he most likely had a gun and that is how he kept two girls from fleeing. That is not to say the gun is the murder weapon. But if I were a betting person, I would put money on him having one. That opens up a whole other scope to the profile of who this person was. It would mean he was someone who always or mostly carried a firearm. Or it would be someone who came prepared. If he came prepared, he couldn't have been prepared to meet Abby and Libby since their trip was last minute and almost didn't happen. I know it sounds like wild speculation but it really isn't if you use deductive reasoning and remove the impossible.

    One more thing the audio tells me: If I am in the middle of a crime unfolding, and I have the presence of mind to record audio of the person's voice, and I personally know the perp, I am going to record myself saying their name, like "Bob, why are you doing this?" Or something like that. Because of this, I believe it's very likely the girls did not know the perp. I have more to say and could probably discuss this for hours, but when I am just writing my thoughts without the format of a dialogue with someone else, I cant ever seem to remember succinctly what I have to say lol

  • Cathy

    Cathy Massachusetts

    What this case needs is a fresh set of eyes... it is unacceptable with the amount of evidence (and we don't even know the half of it Im sure) they haven't been able to hunt down this monster. There is something fishy going on, with two completely different sketches and no leads after all this time.

    What this case needs is a fresh set of eyes... it is unacceptable with the amount of evidence (and we don't even know the half of it Im sure) they haven't been able to hunt down this monster. There is something fishy going on, with two completely different sketches and no leads after all this time.

  • Jenni

    Jenni Lexington Ky

    The Shack is a movie about a little girl who gets kidnapped and they find her body in an old abandoned shack in the woods.

    The Shack is a movie about a little girl who gets kidnapped and they find her body in an old abandoned shack in the woods.

  • Gray Hughes

    Gray Hughes Portland, Oregon

    WE linked horses in kirts facebook images to horse on logan's property, so they at least knew each other. Also have you seen the flow 3 video and animations I made on the delphi case. I work with Morf and Lordan on 3 men and a mystery animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3YrGDdKKY flow of crime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZzBCyLSI0E corrected walk cycle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaaVdBEiKj4 grayhuze2@gmail.com

    WE linked horses in kirts facebook images to horse on logan's property, so they at least knew each other. Also have you seen the flow 3 video and animations I made on the delphi case. I work with Morf and Lordan on 3 men and a mystery
    animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3YrGDdKKY
    flow of crime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZzBCyLSI0E
    corrected walk cycle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaaVdBEiKj4
    grayhuze2@gmail.com

  • Alisha Tillery

    Alisha Tillery Alabama

    It’s The Shack. If interested, there are videos where Kelsi German speaks of that movie and how much it meant to her, and she believes she had spoken to the officer that mentioned The Shack in the press conference, and they had talked about how they liked the movie before that press conference came about. She says she thinks those comments are unrelated to the case. Also, Kelsi has recently started her own YouTube channel, and openly discusses what she can, dispels rumors, and highlights events that honor Libby & Abby. Kelsi seems to be a sweet girl. Now plans on studying forensics in college... Have a good day mates. P. S. Yes, those people attacking Kelsi are nuts and just damn mean.

    It’s The Shack. If interested, there are videos where Kelsi German speaks of that movie and how much it meant to her, and she believes she had spoken to the officer that mentioned The Shack in the press conference, and they had talked about how they liked the movie before that press conference came about. She says she thinks those comments are unrelated to the case.
    Also, Kelsi has recently started her own YouTube channel, and openly discusses what she can, dispels rumors, and highlights events that honor Libby & Abby. Kelsi seems to be a sweet girl. Now plans on studying forensics in college...
    Have a good day mates.
    P. S. Yes, those people attacking Kelsi are nuts and just damn mean.

  • Kelly

    Kelly Los Angeles, CA

    Lol a little amusing bickering this episode. I get what Captain was saying and found myself agreeing. I also think, and hope I am wrong, that the cops screwed something up royally. I also don’t think they are close to solving this. They sounded tough in that last big press conference but I think they are grasping at straws. Again, hope I’m wrong. Maybe releasing more info to the public would help. Could be time.

    Lol a little amusing bickering this episode. I get what Captain was saying and found myself agreeing. I also think, and hope I am wrong, that the cops screwed something up royally. I also don’t think they are close to solving this. They sounded tough in that last big press conference but I think they are grasping at straws. Again, hope I’m wrong. Maybe releasing more info to the public would help. Could be time.

  • Reb

    Reb DC

    Question - as I missed it if you said it, and my internet searches make it totally impossible to know what to rely on: Do we know their causes of death? Especially given the narrow window that you helped refine in these episodes, I've always had a hard time trying to figure out how he controlled these two girls PARTICULARLY because them taking a photo of the guy while on the bridge indicates that they were in Stranger Danger mode almost the second they crossed paths. The photo of the dude would appear to have been taken pre-engagement, as he was running towards them (something that had never occurred to me, but once you mentioned it, I can't look at the photo without an even deeper sense of The Creeps.) Thanks for keeping this case in the public mind!

    Question - as I missed it if you said it, and my internet searches make it totally impossible to know what to rely on: Do we know their causes of death?
    Especially given the narrow window that you helped refine in these episodes, I've always had a hard time trying to figure out how he controlled these two girls PARTICULARLY because them taking a photo of the guy while on the bridge indicates that they were in Stranger Danger mode almost the second they crossed paths. The photo of the dude would appear to have been taken pre-engagement, as he was running towards them (something that had never occurred to me, but once you mentioned it, I can't look at the photo without an even deeper sense of The Creeps.)
    Thanks for keeping this case in the public mind!

  • Stacey

    Stacey Queens, NY

    Being that The Shack is a Christian story I wonder if the Detective was trying to add onto the guilt that the perp should be feeling. Also, I got a chill when I heard them say at the press conference that the killer may be here in this room.

    Being that The Shack is a Christian story I wonder if the Detective was trying to add onto the guilt that the perp should be feeling. Also, I got a chill when I heard them say at the press conference that the killer may be here in this room.

  • Alysia

    Alysia NJ

    I listen at work - so apologies if I missed this - But my question is, why isn’t anyone focused on what looks like a fanny pack/satchel the suspect is carrying? As it is pixelated, it might not be a fanny pack at all - but it truly looks like something. Not many men - that I know at least - would carry anything similar even if they were hiking. Do many men in the area use these things or am I missing something here?

    I listen at work - so apologies if I missed this -

    But my question is, why isn’t anyone focused on what looks like a fanny pack/satchel the suspect is carrying? As it is pixelated, it might not be a fanny pack at all - but it truly looks like something. Not many men - that I know at least - would carry anything similar even if they were hiking.

    Do many men in the area use these things or am I missing something here?

  • John

    John Wisconsin

    Capt is correct is suggesting police could release more information. What good is it doing? They can keep an ace up their sleeve but their current strategy isn't working! Also Why didn't you guys play the soundbites?

    Capt is correct is suggesting police could release more information. What good is it doing? They can keep an ace up their sleeve but their current strategy isn't working!

    Also Why didn't you guys play the soundbites?

  • Nigel

    Nigel Vic, Australia

    Awesome return to form on the Double Delphi murder episode guys... the old banter I love was back. Each suspect you mentioned I checked their pics and seriously my jaw dropped when I seen Thomas Bruce. The profilers have given us the basics, but over time, studying the bridge pic, I kinda developed my own profile. I thought the guy was in his 40’s, so it’s interesting LE are prepared to suggest he could be as young as 20? He appears to be wearing a cloth cap, like an Englishman, as if he’s got a bit of time for himself, more the clear headed narcissist than a scattered psycho. And saying that...the attack was meticulously planned as far as I can tell. He’s too well dressed it seems, to be a drifter, but I wonder what it is he conjured, by way of disguise, that’s allowed him to go unrecognised in restaurants and gas stations. He’d be a friendly fellow on the surface, but to those who know him, someone not to be messed with. It’s sad how the families in these cases are put to the sword, and so I hope they can get this well-conditioned experienced snake, sooner rather than later.

    Awesome return to form on the Double Delphi murder episode guys... the old banter I love was back.
    Each suspect you mentioned I checked their pics and seriously my jaw dropped when I seen Thomas Bruce. The profilers have given us the basics, but over time, studying the bridge pic, I kinda developed my own profile. I thought the guy was in his 40’s, so it’s interesting LE are prepared to suggest he could be as young as 20? He appears to be wearing a cloth cap, like an Englishman, as if he’s got a bit of time for himself, more the clear headed narcissist than a scattered psycho. And saying that...the attack was meticulously planned as far as I can tell. He’s too well dressed it seems, to be a drifter, but I wonder what it is he conjured, by way of disguise, that’s allowed him to go unrecognised in restaurants and gas stations. He’d be a friendly fellow on the surface, but to those who know him, someone not to be messed with. It’s sad how the families in these cases are put to the sword, and so I hope they can get this well-conditioned experienced snake, sooner rather than later.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    @Reb - the cause of death has not been released to the public and I suspect until an arrest is made than they will hold onto that. Regarding the video of BG - I think he gave them the creeps but that is it - they filmed him and truly didn't know that he was a threat until got close and caught up tp them. BG speeding up to get to them tells me he was there with an agenda he was there to do something specific. It might not have been to kill but he knew the entire morning that whatever it was it might end with killing. He was prepared and had thought this plan out in advance. Sad and scary sh!t - Nic

    @Reb - the cause of death has not been released to the public and I suspect until an arrest is made than they will hold onto that. Regarding the video of BG - I think he gave them the creeps but that is it - they filmed him and truly didn't know that he was a threat until got close and caught up tp them. BG speeding up to get to them tells me he was there with an agenda he was there to do something specific. It might not have been to kill but he knew the entire morning that whatever it was it might end with killing. He was prepared and had thought this plan out in advance.
    Sad and scary sh!t - Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    @Alysia - we talked a bit about this when we first covered the case in 2017. Those two shows are filled with speculation on this case and some good and frightening speculation at that. We did those shows before the sketch of BG came so we thoroughly went through what we thought we were seeing in that picture. So we see what you are seeing - we thought this is one of three things, fanny pack, some type of hunting/fishing kit (field dressing kit) this would be strapped to you like a vest, belt or fanny pack. Or it could be the bottom of his hoodie sticking out maybe with something in the front pocket. It could be any of these and I do think he was wearing hoodie under his zip up jacket. He should have been noticed maybe a bit more by persons in the area as I believe he was overly dressed for a "warm" February day. Nic

    @Alysia - we talked a bit about this when we first covered the case in 2017. Those two shows are filled with speculation on this case and some good and frightening speculation at that. We did those shows before the sketch of BG came so we thoroughly went through what we thought we were seeing in that picture.
    So we see what you are seeing - we thought this is one of three things, fanny pack, some type of hunting/fishing kit (field dressing kit) this would be strapped to you like a vest, belt or fanny pack. Or it could be the bottom of his hoodie sticking out maybe with something in the front pocket. It could be any of these and I do think he was wearing hoodie under his zip up jacket. He should have been noticed maybe a bit more by persons in the area as I believe he was overly dressed for a "warm" February day.
    Nic

  • J

    J Massachusetts

    Sounds like “hill” is really “there” - said with a speech impediment (rhotacism) “Down there”

    Sounds like “hill” is really “there” - said with a speech impediment (rhotacism)
    “Down there”

  • Martin

    Martin England, UK

    Nic, you really don't have to keep on telling us that so-and-so is a disgusting or horrible person, or that they are a monster - we get it. This is a habit you've picked up over recent episodes and it is unnecessary. Really, leave it to the Captain to do all of that stuff - he does it better than you and by you doing it, it means that we are losing the calmer more dispassionate half of the duo. Also, I think that you are trying to get your retaliation in first when it comes to the disagreements with the Captain. He was spot on with what he said about keeping an open mind about Kelsi and contradictions in her statements/interviews. It is as if you are trying to take the offensive before the Captain has chance to do so. I know he can be an arse to you, but that is no reason for you to do the same to him. Other than that, I love what you do! PS, more of the snappier, more concise one-case episodes like the Dennehy and Lueck cases please.

    Nic, you really don't have to keep on telling us that so-and-so is a disgusting or horrible person, or that they are a monster - we get it. This is a habit you've picked up over recent episodes and it is unnecessary. Really, leave it to the Captain to do all of that stuff - he does it better than you and by you doing it, it means that we are losing the calmer more dispassionate half of the duo.

    Also, I think that you are trying to get your retaliation in first when it comes to the disagreements with the Captain. He was spot on with what he said about keeping an open mind about Kelsi and contradictions in her statements/interviews. It is as if you are trying to take the offensive before the Captain has chance to do so. I know he can be an arse to you, but that is no reason for you to do the same to him.

    Other than that, I love what you do!

    PS, more of the snappier, more concise one-case episodes like the Dennehy and Lueck cases please.

  • mG

    mG

    Personally, I think the authorities have their main suspect, it is just about trying to build an open and shut case, which must be turning out to be harder said than done. I think their suspect is Charles Andrew Eldridge. The one thing that always intrigued me about this case was Abby and Libby's insistence on going out there. They didn't want to go to the mall, they didn't want to hang out at each other's house, they wanted to go out there, bad. That makes me think maybe they were going out there to meet someone, someone who had been in contact with them. Someone probably catfishing them. Then you find out that Eldridge has been busted for trying to arrange a sexual encounter with an undercover cop posing as a minor, and he looks shockingly similar to the sketch. He is described by everybody as a gun-lover and "weirdo." Circumstantial points to him, but maybe not the forensics.

    Personally, I think the authorities have their main suspect, it is just about trying to build an open and shut case, which must be turning out to be harder said than done. I think their suspect is Charles Andrew Eldridge. The one thing that always intrigued me about this case was Abby and Libby's insistence on going out there. They didn't want to go to the mall, they didn't want to hang out at each other's house, they wanted to go out there, bad. That makes me think maybe they were going out there to meet someone, someone who had been in contact with them. Someone probably catfishing them. Then you find out that Eldridge has been busted for trying to arrange a sexual encounter with an undercover cop posing as a minor, and he looks shockingly similar to the sketch. He is described by everybody as a gun-lover and "weirdo." Circumstantial points to him, but maybe not the forensics.

  • Laurel B

    Laurel B Lancaster Massachusetts

    Hi Guys! just recently found your podcast and I'm hooked. I heard this case on another podcast a while back and it's always been one that has stuck with me and I periodically think about. Your episodes 1&2 are by far the most informative!! You guys also have a great banter back and forth. Not sure if/when you'll see this but I wanted to suggest some beer for you as I'm a fellow beer lover. From my home state " Wachusett Brewing Company" Wally IPA (named after the red sox mascot) or their Blueberry Ale or Strawberry White if you're into fruit beers. I'd love to know what you think of these brews. Cheers!

    Hi Guys! just recently found your podcast and I'm hooked. I heard this case on another podcast a while back and it's always been one that has stuck with me and I periodically think about. Your episodes 1&2 are by far the most informative!! You guys also have a great banter back and forth. Not sure if/when you'll see this but I wanted to suggest some beer for you as I'm a fellow beer lover. From my home state " Wachusett Brewing Company" Wally IPA (named after the red sox mascot) or their Blueberry Ale or Strawberry White if you're into fruit beers. I'd love to know what you think of these brews. Cheers!

  • mG

    mG

    And for the record, losers on youtube making snotty insinuations against the grieving family members of these girls, without having the slightest clue of what they are talking about, in no way helps find the killer. I always hate when people preface an inane remark with "to be devil's advocate," because that is nothing more than someone seeking attention for attentions sake. Nobody has ever said family members should not be looked at by police. But for bored youtubers to imply that the sister was involved because she made a confused statement under duress, get real!

    And for the record, losers on youtube making snotty insinuations against the grieving family members of these girls, without having the slightest clue of what they are talking about, in no way helps find the killer. I always hate when people preface an inane remark with "to be devil's advocate," because that is nothing more than someone seeking attention for attentions sake. Nobody has ever said family members should not be looked at by police. But for bored youtubers to imply that the sister was involved because she made a confused statement under duress, get real!

  • Michael

    Michael Indiana

    Going by the new video I think it could just be a iPhone live pic and not an actual video and with a iPhone all pictures and videos are time stamped so they would know the exact time the picture was taken

    Going by the new video I think it could just be a iPhone live pic and not an actual video and with a iPhone all pictures and videos are time stamped so they would know the exact time the picture was taken

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Good take J - maybe that could be the reason no one has come forward about the voice. Makes you think. Nic

    Good take J - maybe that could be the reason no one has come forward about the voice. Makes you think.
    Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    That is interesting Michael - it is a very short clip. I’d love to know the time stamp. Nic

    That is interesting Michael - it is a very short clip. I’d love to know the time stamp.
    Nic

  • Marcy

    Marcy GA

    my question is about the BG - was he opportunity killer or was he meeting the girls like mG applied. I mean I love true crime and every case is different but it is always that opportunity killers are less likely. I mean is this bridge just known for young people to go to be alone and this BG just waited for his opportunity? If memory serves, one of the girls were really into true crime. So maybe BG did setup a meeting with one of the girls who happen to bring the other along thinking there is power in numbers. It is just that this place seems kind of remote, the girls were usually in school so unless this guy setup a meeting with one of the girls or was stalking them - how would he have known there was going to be someone out there that day? Also BG took risks taking them in the open, how did he not know they were going to scream, run or that no one would hear them? I mean they could of we don't know, but it was a risky move. I just believe it had to be someone familiar with the area....and I am leaning towards the girls thought they were meeting someone else. I am sure (or at least hoping) the police have checked their social accounts/ messaging apps and may have some of these answers.

    my question is about the BG - was he opportunity killer or was he meeting the girls like mG applied. I mean I love true crime and every case is different but it is always that opportunity killers are less likely. I mean is this bridge just known for young people to go to be alone and this BG just waited for his opportunity? If memory serves, one of the girls were really into true crime. So maybe BG did setup a meeting with one of the girls who happen to bring the other along thinking there is power in numbers. It is just that this place seems kind of remote, the girls were usually in school so unless this guy setup a meeting with one of the girls or was stalking them - how would he have known there was going to be someone out there that day? Also BG took risks taking them in the open, how did he not know they were going to scream, run or that no one would hear them? I mean they could of we don't know, but it was a risky move. I just believe it had to be someone familiar with the area....and I am leaning towards the girls thought they were meeting someone else. I am sure (or at least hoping) the police have checked their social accounts/ messaging apps and may have some of these answers.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Marcy - I agree that may be a possibility. I lean away from that because I think this would have been too easily solved if there was that connection. I also agree that he knew the area well. If not from there or lived there before he would have cased the area - maybe work brings him to Delphi a few times a year for some reason. I do think he is and will be an opportunistic killer until caught. We go into this I believe in part 2 of this week's case but he was not there looking for Libby or Abby. He likely was not there looking for 2 young girls or even one young girl. He likely was there looking for a female victim who was vulnerable and in a compromised part of this park/or trails. I think he hung around the 505 trail where he could see the 501 pretty good right where the trail starts to meet the bridge. When he saw a situation he thought he could control he was going to make his move. He saw the two girls without an adult/without males/in a small group (2) and with no one approaching the trail after them and he had been watching so he was sure no-one was on the other side of the bridge. Once they got far enough out on the bridge he approached and moved fast. That I believe is what spoke the girls and why they recorded him or caught a Live Photo. He was scooting across that bridge. I hope they hang this sicko! Nic

    Hi Marcy - I agree that may be a possibility. I lean away from that because I think this would have been too easily solved if there was that connection. I also agree that he knew the area well. If not from there or lived there before he would have cased the area - maybe work brings him to Delphi a few times a year for some reason. I do think he is and will be an opportunistic killer until caught. We go into this I believe in part 2 of this week's case but he was not there looking for Libby or Abby. He likely was not there looking for 2 young girls or even one young girl. He likely was there looking for a female victim who was vulnerable and in a compromised part of this park/or trails. I think he hung around the 505 trail where he could see the 501 pretty good right where the trail starts to meet the bridge. When he saw a situation he thought he could control he was going to make his move. He saw the two girls without an adult/without males/in a small group (2) and with no one approaching the trail after them and he had been watching so he was sure no-one was on the other side of the bridge. Once they got far enough out on the bridge he approached and moved fast. That I believe is what spoke the girls and why they recorded him or caught a Live Photo. He was scooting across that bridge.
    I hope they hang this sicko! Nic

  • Christine

    Christine CT

    How many people visit this hiking trail around this time of year? It seems a little to planned out with so little time to be a means of opportunity. And the girls were so adamant about going. Could they have been meeting someone they met online?

    How many people visit this hiking trail around this time of year? It seems a little to planned out with so little time to be a means of opportunity. And the girls were so adamant about going. Could they have been meeting someone they met online?

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    I am going to ride the speculation train for a minute, but hear me out. I was reading more about this case just now and I got to thinking: what if they made plans with a friend or talked about going to the park when they were somewhere within ear shot of their friends perv dad. When they go to meet their friend they instead see his/her dad and think its funny so they decide to take his picture to show their friend "hey your dad is here." So the picture wasn't taken because they were creeped out, it was taken because they thought it was funny. That would explain why they waited at the end of the bridge with the guy coming toward them. That doesn't sit right with me in light of the assumption that he scared them. If someone scares you and you want to bolt, what better time than when the creepy guy is one the bridge and you can put tremendous space between you and he. Maybe that's also why the audio the guy sounds calm. Maybe at that point the girls weren't panicking or anything, because they knew the guy as so and so's dad, so maybe they even went with him willingly because he told them their friend was at the car "over that way, here follow me" or something to that effect. This would also explain why the police have stated that if someone fears for their safety by coming forward they could do it anonymously. Because a child would be in fear of incriminating their dad. And it explains why there is no digital trace of a meeting set up. I wonder who they were hanging out with in the days before their murder. anyone they could have made plans with verbally that were overheard? For that matter, if it was the father of a classmate, he could have also been present at the searches and the press conference where police alluded to his presence being possible, because he could do it under the guise of concern as a father to one of the girls classmates. Maybe that's too speculative, but I thought it realistically accounted for the stranger aspects of this case.

    I am going to ride the speculation train for a minute, but hear me out. I was reading more about this case just now and I got to thinking: what if they made plans with a friend or talked about going to the park when they were somewhere within ear shot of their friends perv dad. When they go to meet their friend they instead see his/her dad and think its funny so they decide to take his picture to show their friend "hey your dad is here." So the picture wasn't taken because they were creeped out, it was taken because they thought it was funny. That would explain why they waited at the end of the bridge with the guy coming toward them. That doesn't sit right with me in light of the assumption that he scared them. If someone scares you and you want to bolt, what better time than when the creepy guy is one the bridge and you can put tremendous space between you and he. Maybe that's also why the audio the guy sounds calm. Maybe at that point the girls weren't panicking or anything, because they knew the guy as so and so's dad, so maybe they even went with him willingly because he told them their friend was at the car "over that way, here follow me" or something to that effect. This would also explain why the police have stated that if someone fears for their safety by coming forward they could do it anonymously. Because a child would be in fear of incriminating their dad. And it explains why there is no digital trace of a meeting set up. I wonder who they were hanging out with in the days before their murder. anyone they could have made plans with verbally that were overheard? For that matter, if it was the father of a classmate, he could have also been present at the searches and the press conference where police alluded to his presence being possible, because he could do it under the guise of concern as a father to one of the girls classmates. Maybe that's too speculative, but I thought it realistically accounted for the stranger aspects of this case.

  • Jm

    Jm Long Island

    I really enjoy the podcast and hope you will continue on with the case with more episodes, especially off the record. I am fascinated by the case. The suspect who is currently in jail for another murder charge (strangulation and torture) is the one I think did it. The following point to this person as the possible killer: + proof he knew the area well (horses video) + photos available online of him in bulky brown hooded sweatshirt prior to murders, I believe, but not after + photos available online of him with hand in pocket I.e. possibly one mannerism LE asked public to look out for + social media break for 6 months roughly after the murders, then he returns to regular posting + change in appearance after the murders + I saw a video interview online with one of Libby’s relatives saying a close male friend of Libby said Libby was in SC contact with a 19 year old who wanted to meet her. This suspect was 19 the year of the murders. I also think given how badly Libby wanted to go to the bridge, there is a strong possibility she was going to meet someone. + some have speculated BG turns his head to spit in the video. This suspect has multiple photos online of him dipping. + close physical resemblance between Libby and suspect’s long term girlfriend. Perhaps showing preference. + in the other murder case, LE have said they are waiting til November for DNA information to come back. I hope when it does it links him to these murders. This is all personal opinion and speculation, of course. Anyway, really enjoy the podcast. Keep up the good work.

    I really enjoy the podcast and hope you will continue on with the case with more episodes, especially off the record. I am fascinated by the case. The suspect who is currently in jail for another murder charge (strangulation and torture) is the one I think did it. The following point to this person as the possible killer:
    + proof he knew the area well (horses video)
    + photos available online of him in bulky brown hooded sweatshirt prior to murders, I believe, but not after
    + photos available online of him with hand in pocket I.e. possibly one mannerism LE asked public to look out for
    + social media break for 6 months roughly after the murders, then he returns to regular posting
    + change in appearance after the murders
    + I saw a video interview online with one of Libby’s relatives saying a close male friend of Libby said Libby was in SC contact with a 19 year old who wanted to meet her. This suspect was 19 the year of the murders. I also think given how badly Libby wanted to go to the bridge, there is a strong possibility she was going to meet someone.
    + some have speculated BG turns his head to spit in the video. This suspect has multiple photos online of him dipping.
    + close physical resemblance between Libby and suspect’s long term girlfriend. Perhaps showing preference.
    + in the other murder case, LE have said they are waiting til November for DNA information to come back. I hope when it does it links him to these murders.
    This is all personal opinion and speculation, of course.
    Anyway, really enjoy the podcast. Keep up the good work.

  • Hillary

    Hillary OH

    I agree with Rachel's thoughts regarding the outfit > 40 years old, "guys" potentially identifying a parent-type/teacher/child care worker, the fact that if I were making a recording and I knew the creep following me or coercing me, I would say his name, and I agree with the likelihood of him having a gun. I also think her explanation of it being an adult they knew (maybe a friend's dad) made a lot of sense. Reb- good points, leads me to wonder if there was more than 1 perp.

    I agree with Rachel's thoughts regarding the outfit > 40 years old, "guys" potentially identifying a parent-type/teacher/child care worker, the fact that if I were making a recording and I knew the creep following me or coercing me, I would say his name, and I agree with the likelihood of him having a gun. I also think her explanation of it being an adult they knew (maybe a friend's dad) made a lot of sense.

    Reb- good points, leads me to wonder if there was more than 1 perp.

  • Anne

    Anne VA

    The video clip is pretty short and the ground is uneven. But I still think the guy limps. My husband has one leg shorter than the other and bridge guy has a similar walk. Even on uneven surfaces it is noticeable. Probably wrong but an interesting thought.

    The video clip is pretty short and the ground is uneven. But I still think the guy limps. My husband has one leg shorter than the other and bridge guy has a similar walk. Even on uneven surfaces it is noticeable. Probably wrong but an interesting thought.

  • Abraham

    Abraham Houston

    In the audio I can hear like they are walking on dry leafs while the BG saying “down the hill” .... does anybody know how to use google earth? On some other mistery videos I saw they can look satellite pic from past years, maybe maybe.

    In the audio I can hear like they are walking on dry leafs while the BG saying “down the hill” .... does anybody know how to use google earth? On some other mistery videos I saw they can look satellite pic from past years, maybe maybe.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Yes there would have been a lot of debris on the ground that time of year. I believe what we are hearing is a combo of leafs and the phone being stashed in Libby's pocket. I have reviewed some information lately and its too long of a story to say where/how... but it was a short transcript of the audio, according to this the girls at one time were talking to each other but not BG even in his presence. The audio LE have released is cut from two parts and it goes like this... BG - Guys / one of the girls - tell him yourself / BG - down the hill Haunting - I will never get over how incredibly scare they would have been! Nic

    Yes there would have been a lot of debris on the ground that time of year. I believe what we are hearing is a combo of leafs and the phone being stashed in Libby's pocket. I have reviewed some information lately and its too long of a story to say where/how... but it was a short transcript of the audio, according to this the girls at one time were talking to each other but not BG even in his presence. The audio LE have released is cut from two parts and it goes like this... BG - Guys / one of the girls - tell him yourself / BG - down the hill
    Haunting - I will never get over how incredibly scare they would have been!
    Nic

  • Bill

    Bill Sacramento

    Hey, so my biggest problem with the suspects that are involved in this case is the fact that they all attacked women in their 20s or 30s. I don't rule out the fact that murders and predators can vary on their preferred age range, but we're talking about two young teens. Most of the time, especially when the crime involves a sexual aspect, of the target is children, the perp tends to stick with younger victims. There's a lot we don't know here that could clear up some answers. Was there a sexual component to the crime? Was this a place the girls went to often? If so, did this guy watch the girls?

    Hey, so my biggest problem with the suspects that are involved in this case is the fact that they all attacked women in their 20s or 30s. I don't rule out the fact that murders and predators can vary on their preferred age range, but we're talking about two young teens. Most of the time, especially when the crime involves a sexual aspect, of the target is children, the perp tends to stick with younger victims. There's a lot we don't know here that could clear up some answers. Was there a sexual component to the crime? Was this a place the girls went to often? If so, did this guy watch the girls?

  • Rebecca

    Rebecca Louisiana

    Why would the investigators want the perp to know they don't have DNA

    Why would the investigators want the perp to know they don't have DNA

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    I agree - they would not want BG to know, much of anything at all. They want him scared and making missteps and mistakes. Let today be the day! Cheers Nic

    I agree - they would not want BG to know, much of anything at all. They want him scared and making missteps and mistakes.
    Let today be the day!
    Cheers Nic

  • LJ

    LJ Colorado

    I’ve listened to all 6 of your podcasts multiple times, and done a fair amount of online digging. If you google flannel shirt guy, I’m only seeing a couple photos. If they’re accurate, I think that’s the guy. The bridge guy has a white-ish hood sticking out from his jacket. He walks up on the girls, they take the photo, he leads them away. Whatever he does to them happens fairly quickly. I think it’s near the creek. If he rapes them, he could possibly have removed his own pants. If so, he moves their bodies to the other side of the creek, then re-dresses, this time putting the flannel shirt over the blue jacket. His fanny pack could be a kill kit, or he could even have a backpack under the blue jacket with a change of clothes, making him appear “chubbier” than he actually is. Then he has the balls to speak to the dad, and Is cooperative with law enforcement and if I’m correct, even helped with the search, like a lot of killers do. Call me crazy, but that’s the guy.

    I’ve listened to all 6 of your podcasts multiple times, and done a fair amount of online digging. If you google flannel shirt guy, I’m only seeing a couple photos. If they’re accurate, I think that’s the guy. The bridge guy has a white-ish hood sticking out from his jacket.

    He walks up on the girls, they take the photo, he leads them away. Whatever he does to them happens fairly quickly. I think it’s near the creek. If he rapes them, he could possibly have removed his own pants. If so, he moves their bodies to the other side of the creek, then re-dresses, this time putting the flannel shirt over the blue jacket. His fanny pack could be a kill kit, or he could even have a backpack under the blue jacket with a change of clothes, making him appear “chubbier” than he actually is.

    Then he has the balls to speak to the dad, and Is cooperative with law enforcement and if I’m correct, even helped with the search, like a lot of killers do. Call me crazy, but that’s the guy.

  • Rachel

    Rachel Rancho Cucamonga, Ca

    Hello all, this is my first comment as I am new to the podcast world, but I’ve been listening to the Captain and Nick for months now catching up. So I actually heard about this case in another podcast. I really love how you guys have really dived into it. Last night I was listening to your original episodes in this one and looking at the Snapchat pictures. i has studied them before and did notice the dark figure at the crime entrances I originally thought it must be a person but giving it a closer look I wasn’t convinced. I actually found a Reddit post from a local who frequents the trail and they said there are two wooden posts down there. So that helps with that a little. Now what I hadn’t noticed was the figure in the woods on the right side of the picture of Abby. When nick mentioned that in the original episode I pulled up the picture to look. I did some googling and someone else had toxins it as well and was nice enough to circle and blow it up a bit. Of course it can be really easy to see something you wanna see especially when it’s circled, but I’ll be damned if it’s not a person in dark clothes and a beige hat/hood on. Right now I’m pretty convinced that he’s standing there. It also would explain how he’s all of a sudden in the middle of the bridge when there didn’t appear to be anyone walking on it before. I plan to look more closely in my computer where I can pull it up bigger. Sorry if this stuff has been discussed a lot. Like I said I’m newer to this and it’s great to be able to share thoughts with fellow listeners. let me know what you guys think and what else you have found. I plan to read the other back comments on this thread to learn more as well.

    Hello all,

    this is my first comment as I am new to the podcast world, but I’ve been listening to the Captain and Nick for months now catching up. So I actually heard about this case in another podcast. I really love how you guys have really dived into it. Last night I was listening to your original episodes in this one and looking at the Snapchat pictures. i has studied them before and did notice the dark figure at the crime entrances I originally thought it must be a person but giving it a closer look I wasn’t convinced. I actually found a Reddit post from a local who frequents the trail and they said there are two wooden posts down there. So that helps with that a little. Now what I hadn’t noticed was the figure in the woods on the right side of the picture of Abby. When nick mentioned that in the original episode I pulled up the picture to look. I did some googling and someone else had toxins it as well and was nice enough to circle and blow it up a bit. Of course it can be really easy to see something you wanna see especially when it’s circled, but I’ll be damned if it’s not a person in dark clothes and a beige hat/hood on. Right now I’m pretty convinced that he’s standing there. It also would explain how he’s all of a sudden in the middle of the bridge when there didn’t appear to be anyone walking on it before. I plan to look more closely in my computer where I can pull it up bigger. Sorry if this stuff has been discussed a lot. Like I said I’m newer to this and it’s great to be able to share thoughts with fellow listeners. let me know what you guys think and what else you have found. I plan to read the other back comments on this thread to learn more as well.

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