Delphi Murders /// Under the Bridge /// 509 /// 510 /// 511

279 comments

  • Denise
    Denise Naples, Fl
    Hav been haunted by this case, hope in some way what you are sharing brings light to such darkness!!!!

    Hav been haunted by this case, hope in some way what you are sharing brings light to such darkness!!!!

  • Jessi Mullins
    Jessi Mullins TN
    Hello! Thanks so much! I now have a platform to follow and will support you all to the fullest! I have listened to Skip or read his post on reddit for a long time. He sent me some info over messenger and seems to care a lot about this case. This sold me I am ordering some merch!

    Hello! Thanks so much! I now have a platform to follow and will support you all to the fullest! I have listened to Skip or read his post on reddit for a long time. He sent me some info over messenger and seems to care a lot about this case. This sold me I am ordering some merch!

  • Amelia
    Amelia NYC
    Colonel! Captain! You are spoiling us uploading three episodes about one of the most important cases today! Thank you so much

    Colonel! Captain! You are spoiling us uploading three episodes about one of the most important cases today!

    Thank you so much

  • Deborah
    Deborah Cowell
    Does anyone know if DO was present during the 2019 news conference?

    Does anyone know if DO was present during the 2019 news conference?

  • Kelly
    Kelly Tampa
    Holy smokes!!! It makes so much sense! Fantastic episodes! Skip is so impressive. Thanks y’all!

    Holy smokes!!! It makes so much sense! Fantastic episodes! Skip is so impressive. Thanks y’all!

  • Rudypoot
    Rudypoot Parts unknown
    I think you guys did a great job appealing to anyone out there that may know more or who has been telling lies. I believe that Sheriff is a bad ass and is doing all he can to build this case and get this disgusting lowlife. I can’t wait for the day of reckoning!! Keep up the good work and keep putting out everything you can. You never know who’s listening. Thanks for sincerely caring about these cases and these families. You guys are doing good work and it’s not for nothing. You never know what your voices can accomplish.

    I think you guys did a great job appealing to anyone out there that may know more or who has been telling lies. I believe that Sheriff is a bad ass and is doing all he can to build this case and get this disgusting lowlife. I can’t wait for the day of reckoning!! Keep up the good work and keep putting out everything you can. You never know who’s listening. Thanks for sincerely caring about these cases and these families. You guys are doing good work and it’s not for nothing. You never know what your voices can accomplish.

  • Sue
    Sue Myrtle Beach, SC
    Excellent three part show guys! I wonder two things, if Libby knew him, she didn't recognize bridge guy based on the comment one of the girls made when she said "is creepy guy still there". Another thing is, even if bridge guy's DNA isn't in the data base, they could still obtain DNA from a suspect, without him knowing it, and have it tested. It makes me wonder if they actually have any DNA at all.

    Excellent three part show guys! I wonder two things, if Libby knew him, she didn't recognize bridge guy based on the comment one of the girls made when she said "is creepy guy still there". Another thing is, even if bridge guy's DNA isn't in the data base, they could still obtain DNA from a suspect, without him knowing it, and have it tested. It makes me wonder if they actually have any DNA at all.

  • Speedro
    Speedro Slc Utah
    Nice tweak on the theme song! And great show as always. Cheers.

    Nice tweak on the theme song! And great show as always. Cheers.

  • Kaidadragon
    Kaidadragon NM
    I just want to say THANK YOU to NIC for being the voice of reason while going through this theory. He approaches it with logic and investigative techniques that I really appreciate. I want to point out that the FBI has been involved in this investigation while the girls were still missing and hadn't been found yet. Even a great IT guy can't necessarily hide things from their investigative specialists unless he's a hacker of the highest level. Didn't he Iphone 6 upload to the iCloud? Her pictures could have been uploaded to the cloud before the factory reset...

    I just want to say THANK YOU to NIC for being the voice of reason while going through this theory. He approaches it with logic and investigative techniques that I really appreciate. I want to point out that the FBI has been involved in this investigation while the girls were still missing and hadn't been found yet. Even a great IT guy can't necessarily hide things from their investigative specialists unless he's a hacker of the highest level. Didn't he Iphone 6 upload to the iCloud? Her pictures could have been uploaded to the cloud before the factory reset...

  • James
    James Canberra
    A little late to the case, can someone give me a hint as to the name of D.P? Or how I could find it? So many acronyms to follow in this case! Thanks!

    A little late to the case, can someone give me a hint as to the name of D.P? Or how I could find it? So many acronyms to follow in this case!
    Thanks!

  • Alora
    Alora Cincinnati, OH
    Loved the conversations with Skip. He brought up some very interesting points. People get super defensive and aggressive about this case but at the end of the day we all just want this case solved. I have a question for Skip, could police get a search warrant for the person of interest just based on the fact they were at the scene of the crime and their story keeps changing? Is that probable cause? Have the police asked for a DNA sample from this person of interest to rule out his DNA near the crime scene?

    Loved the conversations with Skip. He brought up some very interesting points. People get super defensive and aggressive about this case but at the end of the day we all just want this case solved. I have a question for Skip, could police get a search warrant for the person of interest just based on the fact they were at the scene of the crime and their story keeps changing? Is that probable cause? Have the police asked for a DNA sample from this person of interest to rule out his DNA near the crime scene?

  • Mark Conlon
    Mark Conlon
    FYI, they won’t have Miranda issues for an interview that was with someone believed to be a witness. Miranda Warnings are only due when there is what is considered a custodial investigation/interview. Best way to think about it as in an adversarial interview or when LE believes someone to be a suspect or POI involved in some criminal activity. An individual freely giving information to police who truly believe the person to be a witness, would not be protected by lack of Miranda warnings. It’s from the LE perspective. They can lie to the interviewee and claim they don’t believe he’s a suspect (to him/her), but the moment they believe the person to be involved (regardless of whether they’ve told him/her) they have to mirandize them.

    FYI, they won’t have Miranda issues for an interview that was with someone believed to be a witness. Miranda Warnings are only due when there is what is considered a custodial investigation/interview. Best way to think about it as in an adversarial interview or when LE believes someone to be a suspect or POI involved in some criminal activity. An individual freely giving information to police who truly believe the person to be a witness, would not be protected by lack of Miranda warnings. It’s from the LE perspective. They can lie to the interviewee and claim they don’t believe he’s a suspect (to him/her), but the moment they believe the person to be involved (regardless of whether they’ve told him/her) they have to mirandize them.

  • Danielle
    Danielle New Orleans
    You can’t just leave us hangin like that!!! Where’s the evidence of a drug connection or a family member? What’s you response to kelsi Shutting this theory down almost immediately after the captains post on Reddit?

    You can’t just leave us hangin like that!!! Where’s the evidence of a drug connection or a family member? What’s you response to kelsi
    Shutting this theory down almost immediately after the captains post on Reddit?

  • AT
    AT NeNc
    Haven’t listened yet to part 3 but for now just wanted to say great job—this series of episodes is a real sizzler. I agree with what I think y’all were saying that Doug Carter’s presser was deliberate, and not merely BS-ing like some have opined. He practically gnashed the speech out as though in spiritual torment, foreboding darker things than just frustration at a case being stalled. Listening to the interview, it’s impressive the way the TCG crew works. Captain lays down the planks drawing Skip’s theory out and Nic shores them up by interjecting factual logistics to sound out what’s being presented. To me it shows part of why TCG is a top contender of the genre, despite not being under a larger corporate umbrella like most of the “slicks”! (Pardon the anachronism).

    Haven’t listened yet to part 3 but for now just wanted to say great job—this series of episodes is a real sizzler. I agree with what I think y’all were saying that Doug Carter’s presser was deliberate, and not merely BS-ing like some have opined. He practically gnashed the speech out as though in spiritual torment, foreboding darker things than just frustration at a case being stalled.
    Listening to the interview, it’s impressive the way the TCG crew works. Captain lays down the planks drawing Skip’s theory out and Nic shores them up by interjecting factual logistics to sound out what’s being presented. To me it shows part of why TCG is a top contender of the genre, despite not being under a larger corporate umbrella like most of the “slicks”! (Pardon the anachronism).

  • AL - Montréal
    AL - Montréal
    Three Delphi episodes with intriguing insight and points worth pondering on a night I wasn’t expecting a TCG episode, let alone THREE, is just fantastic. Colonel and Captain, you’re both gems! To Skip, could you expand on the idea of one of the girls having being targeted? I’ve read posts on Reddit but was never really convinced of its merit until mention of your POI having followed Libby on FB. TBH I have so many questions and theories running through my mind that I’m going to revisit tonight’s episodes and contemplate where I stand with the case. I genuinely appreciated your commentary and approach to the case. It was also refreshing to be reminded that LE know what they’re doing and have the passion and fortitude to solve this heinous crime. so often I read online that there is corruption or bungling of the case by LE and I just don’t believe that to be true- I never have. When there is an information vacuum, people fill that void with unnecessary rumour and negative commentary. There is always hope, and hopefully let ‘today be the day’ will one day be the day this crime is solved!

    Three Delphi episodes with intriguing insight and points worth pondering on a night I wasn’t expecting a TCG episode, let alone THREE, is just fantastic. Colonel and Captain, you’re both gems!

    To Skip, could you expand on the idea of one of the girls having being targeted? I’ve read posts on Reddit but was never really convinced of its merit until mention of your POI having followed Libby on FB. TBH I have so many questions and theories running through my mind that I’m going to revisit tonight’s episodes and contemplate where I stand with the case. I genuinely appreciated your commentary and approach to the case. It was also refreshing to be reminded that LE know what they’re doing and have the passion and fortitude to solve this heinous crime. so often I read online that there is corruption or bungling of the case by LE and I just don’t believe that to be true- I never have. When there is an information vacuum, people fill that void with unnecessary rumour and negative commentary. There is always hope, and hopefully let ‘today be the day’ will one day be the day this crime is solved!

  • Kristy Ward
    Kristy Ward Australia
    I, like so many of us, have been following this case from the beginning and I don’t know if it’s an information overload issue for me or if I haven’t actually heard the information but are we aware if either of the girls were conversing with someone over the internet? From the very beginning I had this gut feeling that they were meeting someone there that day and the person that showed up was not who they were expecting. It sticks out in my mind that it was close to Valentine’s Day, could one of the girls have developed a possible love interest/crush and organised to meet them that day at the bridge and bought their best friend for moral support as it was likely not something they had ever done before due to their age. This scenario could explain so many things that I’ve heard about the case and I would really love to hear other peoples opinions on this theory :)

    I, like so many of us, have been following this case from the beginning and I don’t know if it’s an information overload issue for me or if I haven’t actually heard the information but are we aware if either of the girls were conversing with someone over the internet?

    From the very beginning I had this gut feeling that they were meeting someone there that day and the person that showed up was not who they were expecting.

    It sticks out in my mind that it was close to Valentine’s Day, could one of the girls have developed a possible love interest/crush and organised to meet them that day at the bridge and bought their best friend for moral support as it was likely not something they had ever done before due to their age.

    This scenario could explain so many things that I’ve heard about the case and I would really love to hear other peoples opinions on this theory smile

  • Linda
    Linda AU
    I think the biggest question in this theory was the one with regards to the fact that if the girls knew who it was, they would have said that in the video/audio. The answer given was completely irrelevant and glossed over.

    I think the biggest question in this theory was the one with regards to the fact that if the girls knew who it was, they would have said that in the video/audio. The answer given was completely irrelevant and glossed over.

  • Kelly
    Kelly Mass
    Do you guys know what time Cheyenne uploaded her picture of the bridge? What I’m seeing is that it was uploaded at 3:49, is that what you guys have come across in your research? If so, could BG have committed the crime and knowing that Cheyenne takes pics of the bridge and has gone there before, booked it outta there to wherever she was and made her post that picture at 349 to help establish his alibi. The timeline is tight but it’s such a small town perhaps it could work. But why would Cheyenne provide an alibi? Maybe she didn’t know at the time and just did as he asked or maybe BG has something he’s holding over her head to make her provide the alibi.

    Do you guys know what time Cheyenne uploaded her picture of the bridge? What I’m seeing is that it was uploaded at 3:49, is that what you guys have come across in your research? If so, could BG have committed the crime and knowing that Cheyenne takes pics of the bridge and has gone there before, booked it outta there to wherever she was and made her post that picture at 349 to help establish his alibi. The timeline is tight but it’s such a small town perhaps it could work. But why would Cheyenne provide an alibi? Maybe she didn’t know at the time and just did as he asked or maybe BG has something he’s holding over her head to make her provide the alibi.

  • Taz
    Taz NZ
    Ok, so if Skip’s POI is the dude, then why no arrest yet, if it’s true that he was in the area at the time? Two possibilities in my view (and it could be one, or both, of these): — 1. Alibi. He has someone who claims to have been with him during the time of interest. From the podcast, this would be the woman he claimed he was with. I think law enforcement must have identified her and she is backing up his story, since a lie about that would definitely put him at the top of the suspect list. I’d guess that he’s convinced her that he isn’t the bridge guy, maybe she’s seen the video and doesn’t believe it’s him, and maybe he had some other excuse for her for the missing time (drugs, blackout), and managed to convince her he is innocent and that if she doesn’t alibi him, it will be falsely pinned on him. Hopefully with time she will realise the importance of telling the truth, and come forward, and trust the process. —2 - No forensics that tie him to the crime scene. For example, if there’s absolutely nothing in terms of evidence pinning him to the crime scene, or any fingerprints/DNA end up excluding him somehow (if the latter, they need to retest at a different independent lab or use different methods). My take as a lawyer (not from the US) is that I’d prosecute the case if the guy had an alibi but there was some confirming circumstantial forensics, or If there was no alibi (with his admission he was in the area) with no confirming forensics, but with both of those in play, it would be likely he’d be found not guilty and they’d be better waiting for better forensics or for the alibi to recanted. At least they can keep the guy under surveillance so he can’t do this again, in the meantime. And maybe he’ll talk eventually.

    Ok, so if Skip’s POI is the dude, then why no arrest yet, if it’s true that he was in the area at the time?

    Two possibilities in my view (and it could be one, or both, of these):
    — 1. Alibi. He has someone who claims to have been with him during the time of interest. From the podcast, this would be the woman he claimed he was with. I think law enforcement must have identified her and she is backing up his story, since a lie about that would definitely put him at the top of the suspect list. I’d guess that he’s convinced her that he isn’t the bridge guy, maybe she’s seen the video and doesn’t believe it’s him, and maybe he had some other excuse for her for the missing time (drugs, blackout), and managed to convince her he is innocent and that if she doesn’t alibi him, it will be falsely pinned on him. Hopefully with time she will realise the importance of telling the truth, and come forward, and trust the process.

    —2 - No forensics that tie him to the crime scene. For example, if there’s absolutely nothing in terms of evidence pinning him to the crime scene, or any fingerprints/DNA end up excluding him somehow (if the latter, they need to retest at a different independent lab or use different methods).

    My take as a lawyer (not from the US) is that I’d prosecute the case if the guy had an alibi but there was some confirming circumstantial forensics, or If there was no alibi (with his admission he was in the area) with no confirming forensics, but with both of those in play, it would be likely he’d be found not guilty and they’d be better waiting for better forensics or for the alibi to recanted.

    At least they can keep the guy under surveillance so he can’t do this again, in the meantime. And maybe he’ll talk eventually.

  • Ed
    Ed Horton
    What Mark Conlon said, there is no Miranda issue when interviewing a witness. Even after that witness later becomes a suspect.

    What Mark Conlon said, there is no Miranda issue when interviewing a witness. Even after that witness later becomes a suspect.

  • Alicia Stidham
    Alicia Stidham French Lick IN
    Thanks for a very thought provoking podcast. I agree with a lot of what was said. The only thing about DP that throws me off from him being BG is he's 4-6" taller than BG supposedly is. I really enjoyed how you guys broke down stuff Carter said and how it applies to DP. If you look at the facts of this case, he is the only person who puts himself under that bridge at the time of the murders. And I find it extremely hard to believe that you wouldn't be able to hear 2 girls fighting for their lives. I also find it very suspicious that he waited several days to come forward and has changed his story. I also agree with Skip that it took Georgia looking into it unbiasly for them to realize their witness should be TV their suspect. I looked into the ladies that were mentioned and they have had some issues in their past and connections to DG's past. I hope they hear this podcast and it makes them come forward and tell the truth knowing that charges can be pressed against them for lying. I also find it odd that at the same time DP, QP, and SP all quit posting publicly on FB. I've always been felt that the killer knew the girls.. Would like to hear what other evidence Skip has. Thanks for keeping this case in the public. I can't wait for #todayistheday!!

    Thanks for a very thought provoking podcast. I agree with a lot of what was said. The only thing about DP that throws me off from him being BG is he's 4-6" taller than BG supposedly is. I really enjoyed how you guys broke down stuff Carter said and how it applies to DP. If you look at the facts of this case, he is the only person who puts himself under that bridge at the time of the murders. And I find it extremely hard to believe that you wouldn't be able to hear 2 girls fighting for their lives. I also find it very suspicious that he waited several days to come forward and has changed his story. I also agree with Skip that it took Georgia looking into it unbiasly for them to realize their witness should be TV their suspect. I looked into the ladies that were mentioned and they have had some issues in their past and connections to DG's past. I hope they hear this podcast and it makes them come forward and tell the truth knowing that charges can be pressed against them for lying. I also find it odd that at the same time DP, QP, and SP all quit posting publicly on FB. I've always been felt that the killer knew the girls.. Would like to hear what other evidence Skip has. Thanks for keeping this case in the public. I can't wait for #todayistheday!!

  • Rachel
    Rachel Minnesota
    I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I found it interesting that someone with DP's name was arrested July 31, 2008 for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". From the police blotter description, this individual was 21 and had provided alcohol to 18, 17, and 14 year old passengers. The 18-year-old was identified as female, but the minors were not identified. Certainly not evidence of anything related to this case, but may indicate a pattern of associating with or targeting younger women.

    I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I found it interesting that someone with DP's name was arrested July 31, 2008 for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". From the police blotter description, this individual was 21 and had provided alcohol to 18, 17, and 14 year old passengers. The 18-year-old was identified as female, but the minors were not identified. Certainly not evidence of anything related to this case, but may indicate a pattern of associating with or targeting younger women.

  • Caitlin S
    Caitlin S Maine
    So now I feel like possibly Cheyanne posted a picture on purpose as part of an alibi. The idea of the girls being targeted ahead of time or at least one of them makes so much sense. This case bothers me so much. Hits home since I used to be out alone or with friends all the time as a kid. Parents never knew for sure where we were. Now as a parent every time the kids want to go somewhere alone all I can think of is this case! Thanks for the the updated info.

    So now I feel like possibly Cheyanne posted a picture on purpose as part of an alibi.
    The idea of the girls being targeted ahead of time or at least one of them makes so much sense.
    This case bothers me so much. Hits home since I used to be out alone or with friends all the time as a kid. Parents never knew for sure where we were. Now as a parent every time the kids want to go somewhere alone all I can think of is this case!
    Thanks for the the updated info.

  • Deb
    Deb USA
    There is SO much to this case that we don't know. I can't wait until it is solved (and it WILL be) so everything will finally make sense. I look for a book and/or movie revealing all of the details and filling in so many blanks. Being from Indiana and just north of this location, it is extra intriguing but heartbreaking to me and have been following and listening from the beginning. #justiceforabbyandlibby!

    There is SO much to this case that we don't know. I can't wait until it is solved (and it WILL be) so everything will finally make sense. I look for a book and/or movie revealing all of the details and filling in so many blanks. Being from Indiana and just north of this location, it is extra intriguing but heartbreaking to me and have been following and listening from the beginning. #justiceforabbyandlibby!

  •  Mollie
    Mollie
    Thanks for 3 episodes on Delphi! Other than a person who probably posts and follows case on Reddit—Who is Skip and why is he credible? There was nothing in introduction. Interesting theory that checks many boxes. But Colonel is, as always voice of reason: 1. He was with another girl—if true, how can he be BG? 2. Why don’t we believe Cheyenne esp. if she has photographs posted that day? 3. Why would she alibi DP if it’s not true? What’s motive? 4. If the girls knew DP, why wouldn’t they use his name in video? Not to mention DNA…fingerprints…I would add—-if the “fight under the bridge” was DP and the girls, wouldn’t that fight be captured on the video/audio? No one has ever said they heard such a thing. Thanks again for all your work on this case!

    Thanks for 3 episodes on Delphi! Other than a person who probably posts and follows case on Reddit—Who is Skip and why is he credible? There was nothing in introduction. Interesting theory that checks many boxes. But Colonel is, as always voice of reason: 1. He was with another girl—if true, how can he be BG? 2. Why don’t we believe Cheyenne esp. if she has photographs posted that day? 3. Why would she alibi DP if it’s not true? What’s motive? 4. If the girls knew DP, why wouldn’t they use his name in video? Not to mention DNA…fingerprints…I would add—-if the “fight under the bridge” was DP and the girls, wouldn’t that fight be captured on the video/audio? No one has ever said they heard such a thing. Thanks again for all your work on this case!

  • Joe
    Joe Utica
    Is DP, David Erskin!?!?

    Is DP, David Erskin!?!?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Linda (AU)- A couple of things- We're not sure what was said by the girls. All we know is BG said... "Guys" and "Down the hill". Anything else is conjecture including any of the rumors regarding "creepy guy", etc. -

    Linda (AU)-

    A couple of things-

    We're not sure what was said by the girls. All we know is BG said... "Guys" and "Down the hill". Anything else is conjecture including any of the rumors regarding "creepy guy", etc.

    -

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Kelly (Mass) - Cheyenne originally said the photo was uploaded at 2:49. She later changed it to 3:49. A shadow analysis was done and showed that the photo was taken about 3:00. She said she didn't upload it to SN until 3:49 (at the trail head) due to lack of cell service. How did the girls photo upload to SN from virtually the same spot?

    Kelly (Mass) -

    Cheyenne originally said the photo was uploaded at 2:49. She later changed it to 3:49. A shadow analysis was done and showed that the photo was taken about 3:00. She said she didn't upload it to SN until 3:49 (at the trail head) due to lack of cell service. How did the girls photo upload to SN from virtually the same spot?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Sue (Myrtle Beach)- I was told (from someone who would know) that the DNA they have doesn't have enough markers to identify anyone. It can only exclude them.

    Sue (Myrtle Beach)-

    I was told (from someone who would know) that the DNA they have doesn't have enough markers to identify anyone. It can only exclude them.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Alora (Cincinnati)- They might be a able to get a search warrant based on what you said, but... DP was viewed as a "witness" for the first 18 months. Anything of relevance would have been long gone. As for DNA... LE has basically asked everyone in Delphi to volunteer their DNA. DP was definitely asked. I don't know whether he gave it though. LE has said that numerous individuals have chosen to not give their DNA.

    Alora (Cincinnati)-

    They might be a able to get a search warrant based on what you said, but... DP was viewed as a "witness" for the first 18 months. Anything of relevance would have been long gone. As for DNA... LE has basically asked everyone in Delphi to volunteer their DNA. DP was definitely asked. I don't know whether he gave it though. LE has said that numerous individuals have chosen to not give their DNA.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Deborah (Cowell) - I don't know if DP (or any family members or friends) was at the P.C. I haven't seen him in the photos I've seen from the event.

    Deborah (Cowell) -

    I don't know if DP (or any family members or friends) was at the P.C. I haven't seen him in the photos I've seen from the event.

  • Darth
    Darth Colorado
    Quick question - isn't Bridge Guy supposed to be 5'8" or so? Redditors seem to indicate that DP is about 6'2". That's a pretty big difference. . . .

    Quick question - isn't Bridge Guy supposed to be 5'8" or so? Redditors seem to indicate that DP is about 6'2". That's a pretty big difference. . . .

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Taz (NZ) - You make some great points. I would also add... that in a high profile case like this one. The Prosecutor is under a huge amount of pressure to get a conviction. He needs this to be a slam dunk. It doesn't help matters that the deputy prosecutor and DP are Facebook friends. I do believe that there is some cronyism involved. I think that his why the former prosecutor (Ives) has gone public recently. Also... the chances that a "Special Prosecutor" will need to be brought in are very high, due to a conflict of interest being very possible.

    Taz (NZ) -

    You make some great points. I would also add... that in a high profile case like this one. The Prosecutor is under a huge amount of pressure to get a conviction. He needs this to be a slam dunk. It doesn't help matters that the deputy prosecutor and DP are Facebook friends. I do believe that there is some cronyism involved. I think that his why the former prosecutor (Ives) has gone public recently. Also... the chances that a "Special Prosecutor" will need to be brought in are very high, due to a conflict of interest being very possible.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Joe - No not D. Erskin. We will not be revealing D.P.'s identity. If one went digging enough they can find his real name online, it is available. - Nic

    @ Joe - No not D. Erskin. We will not be revealing D.P.'s identity. If one went digging enough they can find his real name online, it is available. - Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ All As to Skip's credibility I never found that to be in question as he is simply pushing forward the idea that here is a guy (D.P.) that has placed himself at the abduction/murder scene and then changed his story and we should question the motive for changing that story and question much more about D.P. and his involvement in this case. Was he as he says a witness or was he there for another reason altogether. I agree with every part of that statement. To be clear this is Skip's theory, the Captain liked the theory enough that he wanted to invite Skip into the Garage and speak with him. I said as long as we can make it a discussion I'm game. Not much was taken out during the editing process - meaning Skip at no point dodged any questions - he was both up front about what he knew and what he did not. I appreciate his time and efforts. Cheers and let today be the day! Nic

    @ All
    As to Skip's credibility I never found that to be in question as he is simply pushing forward the idea that here is a guy (D.P.) that has placed himself at the abduction/murder scene and then changed his story and we should question the motive for changing that story and question much more about D.P. and his involvement in this case. Was he as he says a witness or was he there for another reason altogether. I agree with every part of that statement.
    To be clear this is Skip's theory, the Captain liked the theory enough that he wanted to invite Skip into the Garage and speak with him. I said as long as we can make it a discussion I'm game. Not much was taken out during the editing process - meaning Skip at no point dodged any questions - he was both up front about what he knew and what he did not. I appreciate his time and efforts.
    Cheers and let today be the day!
    Nic

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Caitlin S (Maine) - Good call. I believe that as well. Cheyenne's photo was not revealed until days after the murders. I'm not a Snapchat expert but was told that manipulating a time stamp is not difficult to do.

    Caitlin S (Maine) -

    Good call. I believe that as well. Cheyenne's photo was not revealed until days after the murders. I'm not a Snapchat expert but was told that manipulating a time stamp is not difficult to do.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Darth (Colorado) - The FBI listed BG to be between '5"6-'5"10 when the first sketch was released in July 2017. They didn't change that (or even mention it) with the release of the 2nd sketch. As for DP's height. He is not '6"2. There are photos of him standing next to people with verified heights, and he is much shorter than that (more like '5"10). That is only what is listed on his driver's license. They don't measure you at the DMV. People lie about height and weight all the time. I've seen measurement analysis that say BG is actually between '5"10 1/2-'6"0.

    Darth (Colorado) -

    The FBI listed BG to be between '5"6-'5"10 when the first sketch was released in July 2017. They didn't change that (or even mention it) with the release of the 2nd sketch. As for DP's height. He is not '6"2. There are photos of him standing next to people with verified heights, and he is much shorter than that (more like '5"10). That is only what is listed on his driver's license. They don't measure you at the DMV. People lie about height and weight all the time. I've seen measurement analysis that say BG is actually between '5"10 1/2-'6"0.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    - Let's keep in mind that Cheyenne's photo could be "authentic" and the theory still work. I was trying to pull out of Skip and the Captain - why do we have to question Cheyenne's story for the theory to work? From my understanding Cheyenne places DP there so I'm not sure what kind of "alibi" that provides. Witnessing someone at a murder scene does not eliminate that person as the murderer. The other thing to remember about Cheyenne's story is the cell phone tower records subpoena. While she could be lying - I believe her story, she could just be off on the time as a completely innocent mistake. cheers Nic

    - Let's keep in mind that Cheyenne's photo could be "authentic" and the theory still work. I was trying to pull out of Skip and the Captain - why do we have to question Cheyenne's story for the theory to work? From my understanding Cheyenne places DP there so I'm not sure what kind of "alibi" that provides. Witnessing someone at a murder scene does not eliminate that person as the murderer.
    The other thing to remember about Cheyenne's story is the cell phone tower records subpoena. While she could be lying - I believe her story, she could just be off on the time as a completely innocent mistake.
    cheers Nic

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Rachel (Minnesota)- That is another DP. Believe it or not... there are two people in the area with the exact same name (and spelled the same as well). That's actually one of the reasons this case has been so confusing. There has been a lot of intentional misdirection and misinformation put out.

    Rachel (Minnesota)-

    That is another DP. Believe it or not... there are two people in the area with the exact same name (and spelled the same as well). That's actually one of the reasons this case has been so confusing. There has been a lot of intentional misdirection and misinformation put out.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Mark Conlon/Ed - Whether there are Miranda rights or not... the point I was trying to make is that I do not believe DP was ever interviewed as anything other than a "witness". That wouldn't require reading him his rights. IMO... by the time he was identified as a potential "suspect", he was lawyered up and had stopped talking. LE has admitted that numerous people have lied to them about "alibis". Lying to LE in a double murder case is fairly serious. Why have no charges been filed?

    Mark Conlon/Ed -

    Whether there are Miranda rights or not... the point I was trying to make is that I do not believe DP was ever interviewed as anything other than a "witness". That wouldn't require reading him his rights. IMO... by the time he was identified as a potential "suspect", he was lawyered up and had stopped talking. LE has admitted that numerous people have lied to them about "alibis". Lying to LE in a double murder case is fairly serious. Why have no charges been filed?

  • Amy
    Amy Kalamazoo
    Does D.P still live in the area? what are the chances they are keeping tabs on him? thank you so much for these episodes. Keeping this case alive, active and relevant is how it will get solved. Cheers to solid work!

    Does D.P still live in the area? what are the chances they are keeping tabs on him?
    thank you so much for these episodes. Keeping this case alive, active and relevant is how it will get solved. Cheers to solid work!

  • Darth
    Darth Colorado
    One thing I'm not clear on is: did Cheyenne say she saw DP with another woman? Did she say who that woman was? I don't think it matters one way or another whether Cheyenne says she saw DP there or not - he already admitted to being there. The issue is: does she corroborate his alibi that he was with another woman?

    One thing I'm not clear on is: did Cheyenne say she saw DP with another woman? Did she say who that woman was? I don't think it matters one way or another whether Cheyenne says she saw DP there or not - he already admitted to being there. The issue is: does she corroborate his alibi that he was with another woman?

  • Richard Grant
    Richard Grant
    As a matter of happenstance I was re-listening to the episode 320 "Delphi Murders Discussion" when I saw in my feed that Under the Bridge 1 showed up- Listened to it and then noticed parts 2 and 3, so I was pretty surprised and decided to just listen to them in succession through the night. I drifted in and out of sleep and listened to them again in the morning, I'm on my third go round of the trio and I find some continuity between Nic's thoughts of there being a "helper" and Skip's thoughts on there perhaps being a driver, or someone who was giving a false alibi. I had also listened to Casefile's most recent episode (182) where it turned out the killer's alibi was falsified by people who knew him because they knew him and couldn't believe he would do it. The first thoughts that are coming to mind would be that the people who might have given D.P. a ride/alibi, if he is the killer might feel a few things that are keeping them covering for him if it's true. 1) they might really believe he couldn't have done it and don't changing their mind is just something they can't bring themselves to do 2) they might feel like it could implicate them in the crime and don't want to be charged as an accomplice and 3) if they were interviewed by police and gave false information could be concerned about coming clean on that because giving false statements to police is illegal unless I'm way off. I thought it was a compelling conversation and I'm going to have to give it a listen again today to see if I missed anything or came to conclusions that don't make sense.

    As a matter of happenstance I was re-listening to the episode 320 "Delphi Murders Discussion" when I saw in my feed that Under the Bridge 1 showed up- Listened to it and then noticed parts 2 and 3, so I was pretty surprised and decided to just listen to them in succession through the night.
    I drifted in and out of sleep and listened to them again in the morning, I'm on my third go round of the trio and I find some continuity between Nic's thoughts of there being a "helper" and Skip's thoughts on there perhaps being a driver, or someone who was giving a false alibi. I had also listened to Casefile's most recent episode (182) where it turned out the killer's alibi was falsified by people who knew him because they knew him and couldn't believe he would do it.
    The first thoughts that are coming to mind would be that the people who might have given D.P. a ride/alibi, if he is the killer might feel a few things that are keeping them covering for him if it's true. 1) they might really believe he couldn't have done it and don't changing their mind is just something they can't bring themselves to do 2) they might feel like it could implicate them in the crime and don't want to be charged as an accomplice and 3) if they were interviewed by police and gave false information could be concerned about coming clean on that because giving false statements to police is illegal unless I'm way off.
    I thought it was a compelling conversation and I'm going to have to give it a listen again today to see if I missed anything or came to conclusions that don't make sense.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Mark Conlon/Ed- Whether or not there are Miranda issues... the point I was trying to make is... IMO, DP was only interviewed by LE as a "witness". By the time he was identified as a potential suspect, he had lawyered up and stopped talking.

    Mark Conlon/Ed-

    Whether or not there are Miranda issues... the point I was trying to make is... IMO, DP was only interviewed by LE as a "witness". By the time he was identified as a potential suspect, he had lawyered up and stopped talking.

  • Laura
    Laura Texas
    I'm guess I'm going to have to go back and listen to these again because I'm completely lost. All I'm hearing are wild theories and some statements that contradict what we already know is true. Everyone has said to not speculate and name people as suspects without some evidence. All these episodes are going to do, is have a witch hunt out for this guy.

    I'm guess I'm going to have to go back and listen to these again because I'm completely lost. All I'm hearing are wild theories and some statements that contradict what we already know is true. Everyone has said to not speculate and name people as suspects without some evidence. All these episodes are going to do, is have a witch hunt out for this guy.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Al (Montréal)- Thank you for your comments. I totally agree with your comment regarding the "information vacuum". This case is filled with misinformation. Also... thank you for your comments about Law Enforcement. This theory is based heavily on LE's comments and their actions.

    Al (Montréal)-

    Thank you for your comments. I totally agree with your comment regarding the "information vacuum". This case is filled with misinformation. Also... thank you for your comments about Law Enforcement. This theory is based heavily on LE's comments and their actions.

  • Jennifer B
    Jennifer B Iowa
    Great episodes as usual, and 3 at once is awesome! This is very interesting new information about this baffling and heart wrenching case. My only hope is that Nic can have a follow up episode to kind of wrap this up in a concise Nic manner. Probably just me but I got a little confused in the back and forth. Thanks gentlemen!

    Great episodes as usual, and 3 at once is awesome! This is very interesting new information about this baffling and heart wrenching case. My only hope is that Nic can have a follow up episode to kind of wrap this up in a concise Nic manner. Probably just me but I got a little confused in the back and forth. Thanks gentlemen!

  • Goodie
    Goodie Morro Bay CA
    Ima have to sit with this info for a while. 3 episodes, thank -you!!! A good reminder to not get stuck in any one direction to the solve.

    Ima have to sit with this info for a while. 3 episodes, thank -you!!! A good reminder to not get stuck in any one direction to the solve.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Alicia Stidham (French Lick IN)- I agree with everything you said 100%. As far as the height issue is concerned... I addressed it in a previous comment. I appreciate the fact that you have looked into (for yourself) a lot of the individuals involved. I thought your comment about DP, QP, and SP was interesting. I always thought that DP "injecting" himself into the case on social media was odd. LE usually instructs witnesses to keep quiet. Not DP. He was all over Facebook and was feeding a Reddit user information. It's funny... that is one of the traits that the FBI said BG would exhibit.

    Alicia Stidham (French Lick IN)-

    I agree with everything you said 100%. As far as the height issue is concerned... I addressed it in a previous comment. I appreciate the fact that you have looked into (for yourself) a lot of the individuals involved. I thought your comment about DP, QP, and SP was interesting. I always thought that DP "injecting" himself into the case on social media was odd. LE usually instructs witnesses to keep quiet. Not DP. He was all over Facebook and was feeding a Reddit user information. It's funny... that is one of the traits that the FBI said BG would exhibit.

  • Missy
    Missy TN
    I love this guy as a POI. He’s a strong candidate. I’m not SUPER familiar with the details of the timeline, so this may be thought out already by others way smarter than me! The only thing that makes me question his involvement is this. If this guy did it and other people saw him there, what time did they see him, in relation to the murders? Just before (therefore no bloody, wet, messy clothes) or just after (in which case how were his clothes not a mess)? Would he have time to commit the murders & be seen or (according to his testimony) see flannel shirt guy? I need to scrutinize the timeline with this guy in mind as killer.

    I love this guy as a POI. He’s a strong candidate.
    I’m not SUPER familiar with the details of the timeline, so this may be thought out already by others way smarter than me! The only thing that makes me question his involvement is this. If this guy did it and other people saw him there, what time did they see him, in relation to the murders? Just before (therefore no bloody, wet, messy clothes) or just after (in which case how were his clothes not a mess)? Would he have time to commit the murders & be seen or (according to his testimony) see flannel shirt guy? I need to scrutinize the timeline with this guy in mind as killer.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    I have attached an article with Doug Carter that was done shortly after the 2019 Press Conference. I think the contents are very telling. Scroll down to the part where Carter starts with... "When we decided that". Now... ask yourself this - Why did LE believe that BG "thought they were on the wrong path"? Perhaps because he provided them with information that sent them in that direction? https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/isp-were-one-tip-away-from-solving-delphi-murders

    I have attached an article with Doug Carter that was done shortly after the 2019 Press Conference. I think the contents are very telling.

    Scroll down to the part where Carter starts with... "When we decided that". Now... ask yourself this - Why did LE believe that BG "thought they were on the wrong path"? Perhaps because he provided them with information that sent them in that direction?

    https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/isp-were-one-tip-away-from-solving-delphi-murders

  • Justene
    Justene Minnesota
    Have you seen DP’s FB page? Everything on it is about the case.

    Have you seen DP’s FB page? Everything on it is about the case.

  • Malina
    Malina Kentucky
    This case makes me so sad. I am a mom girl so it hurts my heart. I do have a few questions for Skip. - I can’t remember this from the previous episode with this case and it wasn’t mentioned at all this go around, but did they question the parent that dropped them off and the parent that was supposed to pick them up? I just find it strange that they dropped these teens off to the hiking trails, left and the another parent was picking them up not too much later. It just seemed weird to me. Do we know if they were involved in this at all? You hear of so many cases taking place in parks and woods. - Have they gone back recently and questioned the supposed witnesses such as Cheyenne and Cheryl again to see if they wanted to redact anything they said after releasing the new sketch and with the new information and also did they show Cheyenne and other “witnesses” the audio/video evidence? I really hope that this case gets solved. These girls deserve justice. I feel like they got involved with the wrong adult male on social media and this is how it ended, but I also feel like the parents might be involved maybe even involuntarily.

    This case makes me so sad. I am a mom girl so it hurts my heart. I do have a few questions for Skip.

    - I can’t remember this from the previous episode with this case and it wasn’t mentioned at all this go around, but did they question the parent that dropped them off and the parent that was supposed to pick them up? I just find it strange that they dropped these teens off to the hiking trails, left and the another parent was picking them up not too much later. It just seemed weird to me. Do we know if they were involved in this at all? You hear of so many cases taking place in parks and woods.

    - Have they gone back recently and questioned the supposed witnesses such as Cheyenne and Cheryl again to see if they wanted to redact anything they said after releasing the new sketch and with the new information and also did they show Cheyenne and other “witnesses” the audio/video evidence?

    I really hope that this case gets solved. These girls deserve justice. I feel like they got involved with the wrong adult male on social media and this is how it ended, but I also feel like the parents might be involved maybe even involuntarily.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Nic- Those are legitimate questions and I agree that the theory still works if she was there, but... Cheyenne was not a witness of BG. She went public only to say who she saw, at what time, and verify her being there with a photo taken at the bridge. She said she saw a female friend, that she "didn't know was going to be there "and a "Heterosexual Couple". She admitted to talking to LE. In response to your comment..."I'm not sure what kind of alibi that provides". I believe the "alibi"(it's actually more of a corroboration) could be for someone who believes they were seen near the crime scene. Let me preface what I'm about to say with this.... We know that the 2nd sketch was done 4 days after the murders. I've been told by a local (with an impeccable source) that many locals knew early on that there was "another sketch". Now...let ask this- if you killed two people and you got wind that LE had a sketch, what would you think? You would obviously think that you had been seen, correct? So... what the alibi would provide is corroboration that conflicts with the witness of said sketch. Also.. you would need to go to LE (even if it's a week later) to explain what you were doing at the trails/bridge that day , as well as, having the 'corroborator' 'volunteer' their information as well. It's like I mentioned in the podcast. LE and the perpetrator have 180 degree opposite agendas. LE needs to place someone "under the bridge" between 2:30-3:30. The perpetrator needs to be anywhere else but there. I know I did explain it well enough in the podcast ... but better late than never.

    Nic-

    Those are legitimate questions and I agree that the theory still works if she was there, but...

    Cheyenne was not a witness of BG. She went public only to say who she saw, at what time, and verify her being there with a photo taken at the bridge. She said she saw a female friend, that she "didn't know was going to be there "and a "Heterosexual Couple". She admitted to talking to LE.

    In response to your comment..."I'm not sure what kind of alibi that provides". I believe the "alibi"(it's actually more of a corroboration) could be for someone who believes they were seen near the crime scene.

    Let me preface what I'm about to say with this.... We know that the 2nd sketch was done 4 days after the murders. I've been told by a local (with an impeccable source) that many locals knew early on that there was "another sketch".

    Now...let ask this- if you killed two people and you got wind that LE had a sketch, what would you think? You would obviously think that you had been seen, correct? So... what the alibi would provide is corroboration that conflicts with the witness of said sketch. Also.. you would need to go to LE (even if it's a week later) to explain what you were doing at the trails/bridge that day , as well as, having the 'corroborator' 'volunteer' their information as well.

    It's like I mentioned in the podcast. LE and the perpetrator have 180 degree opposite agendas. LE needs to place someone "under the bridge" between 2:30-3:30. The perpetrator needs to be anywhere else but there.

    I know I did explain it well enough in the podcast ... but better late than never.

  • Brian
    Brian New Haven CT
    @Skip You ask “How did the girls photo upload to SN from virtually the same spot? (When Cheyanne couldn’t get wifi/service). Simple, they probably had different cellular service providers. From 2017 to 2019 I was employed for an affiliate NW based in Illinois. Our crew was in Delphi from 2/15/17 to 2/17/17 for coverage and again for a press conference in ’19. Service sucks in that area. We camped out by a trail entrance when police had it contained for evidence collection and I was using my coworkers cell to check in with my wife, pregnant at the time, back home. I had no service, but he did. Tmobile was my company, don’t remember what he had. But if I walked 50 yards down the road I hit a patch of service. In these rural areas, a yards difference can mean service or no service, lots of dead spots. Now I’m in CT working for a sports network that doesn’t report on crime but this story never leaves my thoughts. Thanks for updating.

    @Skip

    You ask “How did the girls photo upload to SN from virtually the same spot? (When Cheyanne couldn’t get wifi/service).

    Simple, they probably had different cellular service providers. From 2017 to 2019 I was employed for an affiliate NW based in Illinois. Our crew was in Delphi from 2/15/17 to 2/17/17 for coverage and again for a press conference in ’19. Service sucks in that area. We camped out by a trail entrance when police had it contained for evidence collection and I was using my coworkers cell to check in with my wife, pregnant at the time, back home. I had no service, but he did. Tmobile was my company, don’t remember what he had. But if I walked 50 yards down the road I hit a patch of service. In these rural areas, a yards difference can mean service or no service, lots of dead spots. Now I’m in CT working for a sports network that doesn’t report on crime but this story never leaves my thoughts. Thanks for updating.

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo
    Only in real life is something possibly true sound so much like a movie. If DP is BG, it's very disappointing how pathetic it is for an entire state task force to be outwitted by a killer for 4.5 years. Are they really trying to solve this case or just spinning their wheels hoping people will forget and move on so they don't have to explain their mistakes and how they let the killer drive the narrative for 2 years and then can't stick the landing when they turn the tables on him? LE needs to face the public, publish the profile and let the public know what they need to solve this case.

    Only in real life is something possibly true sound so much like a movie. If DP is BG, it's very disappointing how pathetic it is for an entire state task force to be outwitted by a killer for 4.5 years. Are they really trying to solve this case or just spinning their wheels hoping people will forget and move on so they don't have to explain their mistakes and how they let the killer drive the narrative for 2 years and then can't stick the landing when they turn the tables on him? LE needs to face the public, publish the profile and let the public know what they need to solve this case.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Brian (New Haven (New Haven CT- Definitely plausible.

    @Brian (New Haven (New Haven CT-

    Definitely plausible.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Amy (Kalamazoo)- DP does still live in the area. If LE truly knows who BG is... I can promise you that they are keeping tabs on him.

    @Amy (Kalamazoo)-

    DP does still live in the area. If LE truly knows who BG is... I can promise you that they are keeping tabs on him.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Darth(Colorado)- I suppose it depends on which version of Cheyenne's story you believe. She originally said that she alone. She later said that she was with a friend. Her arrival time and photo changed by an hour. She said she knew the time because of a "Robo" call. She also made a point to say that she saw a friend (supposedly DP) of her's car (w/paper plates) when she arrived. Later said it wasn't actually in the lot. It was parked a little ways down. The weird thing is... she said she arrived at 2:50. Well... DP said he arrived 3:00. How did she see his car when she got there?

    @Darth(Colorado)-

    I suppose it depends on which version of Cheyenne's story you believe. She originally said that she alone. She later said that she was with a friend. Her arrival time and photo changed by an hour. She said she knew the time because of a "Robo" call. She also made a point to say that she saw a friend (supposedly DP) of her's car (w/paper plates) when she arrived. Later said it wasn't actually in the lot. It was parked a little ways down. The weird thing is... she said she arrived at 2:50. Well... DP said he arrived 3:00. How did she see his car when she got there?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Richard Grant- I truly hope everyone reads your entry. It's extremely well thought out and pragmatic. It answers one of the biggest questions I get regarding this theory. I really appreciate you taking the time to make such a thoughtful comment.

    @Richard Grant-

    I truly hope everyone reads your entry. It's extremely well thought out and pragmatic. It answers one of the biggest questions I get regarding this theory. I really appreciate you taking the time to make such a thoughtful comment.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Missy (TN) - Cheyenne is the only person who claims to have seen BG. Agree with your comments regarding the timeline. It's a key part. Remember what I said about what time the Perp wants to avoid the bridge area. DP claimed he was the male of the arguing couple, correct? That was what he said to explain why the female he was with didn't notice BG. DG saw FSG around 3:15-3:20 at the trail crossing. DG was coming from the trail head and FSG from the bridge. DG asked him if he had "seen the girls". FSG said, "No... but he heard a couple arguing under the bridge". So.. If FSG had been at the bridge and heard an "arguing couple".... I'll let you do the math of what time FSG was at the bridge compared to when DP said he arrived. Lastly... in response to DP 're-canting' his witness statement and saying he must have seen FSG. Well... DP claimed BG was wearing a scarf over his face. FSG wasn't wearing a scarf. So... why would he think he saw FSG? Maybe to avoid being in the area at that time? Maybe he thought FSG possibly saw him. Again.... the Perp wants to avoid that area at all costs.

    @Missy (TN) -

    Cheyenne is the only person who claims to have seen BG. Agree with your comments regarding the timeline. It's a key part. Remember what I said about what time the Perp wants to avoid the bridge area. DP claimed he was the male of the arguing couple, correct? That was what he said to explain why the female he was with didn't notice BG. DG saw FSG around 3:15-3:20 at the trail crossing. DG was coming from the trail head and FSG from the bridge. DG asked him if he had "seen the girls". FSG said, "No... but he heard a couple arguing under the bridge". So.. If FSG had been at the bridge and heard an "arguing couple"....

    I'll let you do the math of what time FSG was at the bridge compared to when DP said he arrived. Lastly... in response to DP 're-canting' his witness statement and saying he must have seen FSG. Well... DP claimed BG was wearing a scarf over his face. FSG wasn't wearing a scarf. So... why would he think he saw FSG? Maybe to avoid being in the area at that time? Maybe he thought FSG possibly saw him. Again.... the Perp wants to avoid that area at all costs.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Justine (Minnesota)- That is a fake DP page. I'm aware of it. A couple of people even suggested that it was started by me. I am not involved with the page whatsoever.

    Justine (Minnesota)-

    That is a fake DP page. I'm aware of it. A couple of people even suggested that it was started by me. I am not involved with the page whatsoever.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Malina (Kentucky)- Libby's sister (Kelsi) dropped them off and her Father (Derrick) went to pick them up later. LE has talked to both extensively. I do not believe the family has any 'direct' involvement in the murders. I don't know what contact Law Enforcement has had with Cheyenne or Cheryl, other than Cheyenne stating that she talked to LE early in the case.

    @Malina (Kentucky)-

    Libby's sister (Kelsi) dropped them off and her Father (Derrick) went to pick them up later. LE has talked to both extensively. I do not believe the family has any 'direct' involvement in the murders. I don't know what contact Law Enforcement has had with Cheyenne or Cheryl, other than Cheyenne stating that she talked to LE early in the case.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Missy (TN)- Sorry for the typo. I meant DP (not BG) in the first sentence.

    @Missy (TN)-

    Sorry for the typo. I meant DP (not BG) in the first sentence.

  • ex umbra en solem
    ex umbra en solem earth
    As an active digital forensic investigator, resetting an Iphone6 does not mean the data is gone. Data is stored in databases and by factory re-setting the device only marks the data to be allowed to be overwritten/purged. There are many tools such as Cellebrite, query analyzer, text readers etc that allow an investigator to access the data. The old iphones are easy to extract data from and I would expect that Law Enforcement has access to a technical resource that can pull this data. If assistance is needed we can help....

    As an active digital forensic investigator, resetting an Iphone6 does not mean the data is gone. Data is stored in databases and by factory re-setting the device only marks the data to be allowed to be overwritten/purged. There are many tools such as Cellebrite, query analyzer, text readers etc that allow an investigator to access the data. The old iphones are easy to extract data from and I would expect that Law Enforcement has access to a technical resource that can pull this data. If assistance is needed we can help....

  • Jess Dwight
    Jess Dwight
    Hey guys. I googled a lot today after listening to all 3 episodes. I came across a photo online of SP and son DP side by side with both sketches there as well. Sketch one highly resembles father SP and sketch two highly resembles DP. Could BG have been a diversion so that DP could do his deed but not be recognized as the man in the video? Could father SP be BG and DP still be guilty of the crime? Do we know anything about SPs whereabouts on the day of the murder?

    Hey guys. I googled a lot today after listening to all 3 episodes. I came across a photo online of SP and son DP side by side with both sketches there as well. Sketch one highly resembles father SP and sketch two highly resembles DP. Could BG have been a diversion so that DP could do his deed but not be recognized as the man in the video? Could father SP be BG and DP still be guilty of the crime? Do we know anything about SPs whereabouts on the day of the murder?

  • Jeff
    Jeff Ga
    Speculation Garage starring Skip Jansen! These episodes are brutal and if ore Occam's rarazor. Maybe he did dupe police for the first couple years but seems he injected himself into the case for attention rather than to deter the police from investigating himself. Changing his appearance.....that's just likely to happen over the course of years. Going dark online happens after years of hate online. Timelines are hard to match up if all make believe. Why didn't the girls recognize him if they knew him? I'll be back after I catch up and have a better understanding of all the claims and times of the claims.

    Speculation Garage starring Skip Jansen! These episodes are brutal and if ore Occam's rarazor. Maybe he did dupe police for the first couple years but seems he injected himself into the case for attention rather than to deter the police from investigating himself. Changing his appearance.....that's just likely to happen over the course of years. Going dark online happens after years of hate online. Timelines are hard to match up if all make believe. Why didn't the girls recognize him if they knew him? I'll be back after I catch up and have a better understanding of all the claims and times of the claims.

  • Tracy
    Tracy MA
    This was amazing Nic, Captain and Skip, thank you so much. I also got really hung up on what Nic brought up in the episode, and reiterates above: "why do we have to question Cheyenne's story for the theory to work? From my understanding Cheyenne places DP there so I'm not sure what kind of 'alibi' that provides. Witnessing someone at a murder scene does not eliminate that person as the murderer." So Skip it sounds like you are saying that the Cheyenne Alibi is DP being ON the bridge and running into people, and not UNDER the bridge murdering people. That makes sense to me. But I still feel like I'm not "getting it" in a way. If the point of the alibi is that if "you killed two people and you got wind that LE had a sketch...You would obviously think that you had been seen [and] what the alibi would provide is corroboration that conflicts with the witness of said sketch." But what about Nic's point that Cheyenne would not have been able to go "back in time" to make an alibi social media post with a time stamp (3:49?) prior to that sketch existing? I feel like this kind of got glossed over but maybe I'm just missing something, there was so much info in the episodes. Again, thank you all for the great work!

    This was amazing Nic, Captain and Skip, thank you so much. I also got really hung up on what Nic brought up in the episode, and reiterates above: "why do we have to question Cheyenne's story for the theory to work? From my understanding Cheyenne places DP there so I'm not sure what kind of 'alibi' that provides. Witnessing someone at a murder scene does not eliminate that person as the murderer."

    So Skip it sounds like you are saying that the Cheyenne Alibi is DP being ON the bridge and running into people, and not UNDER the bridge murdering people. That makes sense to me. But I still feel like I'm not "getting it" in a way. If the point of the alibi is that if "you killed two people and you got wind that LE had a sketch...You would obviously think that you had been seen [and] what the alibi would provide is corroboration that conflicts with the witness of said sketch." But what about Nic's point that Cheyenne would not have been able to go "back in time" to make an alibi social media post with a time stamp (3:49?) prior to that sketch existing? I feel like this kind of got glossed over but maybe I'm just missing something, there was so much info in the episodes. Again, thank you all for the great work!

  • jlhigh
    jlhigh TX
    Question for skip that was asked during the podcast but never got answered directly. DP claims he was part of the "arguing heterosexual couple".. But when asked "did the police speak to the female in that scenario, did she affirm she was in fact under the bridge that day arguing with DP." Is that his big alibi At this juncture i cannot see the fbi saying to dp, oh you were with a girl, okay we don't need to talk with her and confirm that statement, right?

    Question for skip that was asked during the podcast but never got answered directly.
    DP claims he was part of the "arguing heterosexual couple"..
    But when asked "did the police speak to the female in that scenario, did she affirm she was in fact under the bridge that day arguing with DP."

    Is that his big alibi

    At this juncture i cannot see the fbi saying to dp, oh you were with a girl, okay we don't need to talk with her and confirm that statement, right?

  • Dax
    Dax Louisiana
    @Skip Jensen it seems like you took a bunch of info from the Gray Hughes investigates channel and manipulated it to a point to fit your narrative, do you have an explanation for that?

    @Skip Jensen it seems like you took a bunch of info from the Gray Hughes investigates channel and manipulated it to a point to fit your narrative, do you have an explanation for that?

  • RayRay
    RayRay Seattle
    SKIP, Awesome interview. Can you confirm or deny, was DP [or BG] really said to have driven a brand new car with dealer tags to the area/scene that day? If so, what is the relationship of the car dealership, or even that specific car to this case. Its brilliant to use a test drive or a loaner car to commit a crime, if true. Can you elaborate if this is true or what you know about what car he was driving or maybe even riding as a passenger in and how that might relate to your theory please? Thx!!!

    SKIP,

    Awesome interview. Can you confirm or deny, was DP [or BG] really said to have driven a brand new car with dealer tags to the area/scene that day?

    If so, what is the relationship of the car dealership, or even that specific car to this case. Its brilliant to use a test drive or a loaner car to commit a crime, if true.

    Can you elaborate if this is true or what you know about what car he was driving or maybe even riding as a passenger in and how that might relate to your theory please?

    Thx!!!

  • John
    John Georgia
    One thing I’ve seen elsewhere is this debate regarding the Cheyanne picture in terms of fog. Her photo is foggy while the pictures from Liberty aren’t. Etc. I just started listening to the “ down the Hill “ podcast again after listening to these three episodes with Skip. Right in episode one it’s mentioned how there was fog during the searches, so I’m unsure how that can be used as a gauge. I looked around and saw DP. Wow it’s very very close to drawing made a couple days later. You guys need an episode 4(or5?) to discuss the motive and things hinted at at the end of episode 3. Definitely. There seems much more to discuss. I’m curious as to why Skip thinks that is a strong possibility? Anyway great 3 episodes very interesting 👍

    One thing I’ve seen elsewhere is this debate regarding the Cheyanne picture in terms of fog. Her photo is foggy while the pictures from Liberty aren’t. Etc. I just started listening to the “ down the Hill “ podcast again after listening to these three episodes with Skip. Right in episode one it’s mentioned how there was fog during the searches, so I’m unsure how that can be used as a gauge. I looked around and saw DP. Wow it’s very very close to drawing made a couple days later.

    You guys need an episode 4(or5?) to discuss the motive and things hinted at at the end of episode 3. Definitely. There seems much more to discuss. I’m curious as to why Skip thinks that is a strong possibility?

    Anyway great 3 episodes very interesting 👍

  • Ed
    Ed IL
    More for Nic, but what’s the story more specifically here on this whole thing? The shows were released in advance of normal release date, it reads pretty clickbaity with title, no real intro on who Skip is, then there’s the Captain reply to Kelsi’s tweet (and it appears now her tweet is gone) that feels perhaps distasteful, at the last something you privately say to her if there’s a dialogue there (?). Is there actual meat on the bone here behind the scenes that is not clear to the public or is this another CN situation? Also, even though the name isn’t on the show, it is very easy to find and Skip says it in a reply here that you guys, I presume, would have had to approve. Are you comfortable with that? Generally I haven’t seen someone be given the platform on your podcast that Skip has, also with the replies here. What’s the specific deal with it all?

    More for Nic, but what’s the story more specifically here on this whole thing?

    The shows were released in advance of normal release date, it reads pretty clickbaity with title, no real intro on who Skip is, then there’s the Captain reply to Kelsi’s tweet (and it appears now her tweet is gone) that feels perhaps distasteful, at the last something you privately say to her if there’s a dialogue there (?). Is there actual meat on the bone here behind the scenes that is not clear to the public or is this another CN situation?

    Also, even though the name isn’t on the show, it is very easy to find and Skip says it in a reply here that you guys, I presume, would have had to approve. Are you comfortable with that?

    Generally I haven’t seen someone be given the platform on your podcast that Skip has, also with the replies here. What’s the specific deal with it all?

  • Cliff
    Cliff Georgia (But Originally From WV)
    TCG, excellent update on this case. Thank you! I've been following it since the murders happened. Skip has done an awesome job with his investigation and I was not aware of much of what he has uncovered. I have no clue who DP is, but if he has tripped himself up with changing his story then he's either involved or knows who was involved. There are a some things in this case that have always intrigued me and maybe Skip can comment? If this situation was a setup (to commit murder) then I cannot imagine the killer, or killers, being so ignorant as to park a vehicle *anywhere* near the area. It would have been way too risky, in my opinion. Especially parking it at the abandoned county building or the cemetery. If it was a simply a meeting, and things somehow got out of control, then that's a different matter in regard to having a vehicle in the area since nothing nefarious was actually planned. If I had the intention to kill one or both of the girls there's no way I'm parking a vehicle at any of the trailheads or other locations. I'm going in on foot. I've pointed out before that's it's only about 1.3 miles from the murder scene to the southeast section of Delphi and by paralleling Deer Creek you can basically make the trek unseen. From what I could see on Google Earth the only two vulnerable spots would be passing under the trestle and under the Hoosier Heartland Highway. If the murder scene was as gruesome as we're lead to believe then it's highly probable the killer or killers would have had a noticeable amount of blood on them. Who in the world would exit the trail and risk being seen in this condition? Or at all for that matter? Just my thoughts. But again, thank you for the follow up on this case. You guys are the best! Cheers!

    TCG, excellent update on this case. Thank you! I've been following it since the murders happened. Skip has done an awesome job with his investigation and I was not aware of much of what he has uncovered. I have no clue who DP is, but if he has tripped himself up with changing his story then he's either involved or knows who was involved. There are a some things in this case that have always intrigued me and maybe Skip can comment? If this situation was a setup (to commit murder) then I cannot imagine the killer, or killers, being so ignorant as to park a vehicle *anywhere* near the area. It would have been way too risky, in my opinion. Especially parking it at the abandoned county building or the cemetery. If it was a simply a meeting, and things somehow got out of control, then that's a different matter in regard to having a vehicle in the area since nothing nefarious was actually planned. If I had the intention to kill one or both of the girls there's no way I'm parking a vehicle at any of the trailheads or other locations. I'm going in on foot. I've pointed out before that's it's only about 1.3 miles from the murder scene to the southeast section of Delphi and by paralleling Deer Creek you can basically make the trek unseen. From what I could see on Google Earth the only two vulnerable spots would be passing under the trestle and under the Hoosier Heartland Highway. If the murder scene was as gruesome as we're lead to believe then it's highly probable the killer or killers would have had a noticeable amount of blood on them. Who in the world would exit the trail and risk being seen in this condition? Or at all for that matter? Just my thoughts. But again, thank you for the follow up on this case. You guys are the best! Cheers!

  • B
    B Parts Unknown
    This is said in the nicest tone but who is Skip (hi Skip)? You just jumped into the episode, interviewing some random guy from... the internet? This episode seems like pure speculation (which I normally love) but what makes this different than any other thread on Reddit? Are any of the witness statements brought up confirmed and on record by LE? To quote Nic "We need to be presenting a direct story with timeline and narrative with this theory." Agreed.

    This is said in the nicest tone but who is Skip (hi Skip)? You just jumped into the episode, interviewing some random guy from... the internet? This episode seems like pure speculation (which I normally love) but what makes this different than any other thread on Reddit? Are any of the witness statements brought up confirmed and on record by LE? To quote Nic "We need to be presenting a direct story with timeline and narrative with this theory." Agreed.

  • Jane
    Jane Illinois
    I was electrified by these episodes! I have been wondering about the connection between this guy and the second sketch since I saw a post in the Reddit DelphiMurders sub with a picture of him from the local newspaper and it was so obvious he was the basis for the second sketch - down to his expression. It was as if someone drew the sketch from that picture. Ever since I saw that I have been wondering, were there two killers? was he covering for someone? I recall at the press conference Doug Carter used the words "responsible" as in "this is the person responsible for the murders" and I wondered if the second sketch was meant to let this guy know LE knew he was involved if not the actual killer. Like making him feel guilty for enabling someone else (the older BG sketch). But hearing that he was responsible at least in part for the content of the first sketch really blew my mind. It's like the puzzle pieces are coming together but you still can't see the whole picture. So thanks to TCG for allowing Skip to have a place to discuss this. Even if it is disproved, it is a valid theory to explore. LE is putting the sketch out there, and although you might argue others are comparing that to his photo, his photo is in the local paper for anyone to see, it's not like FB side-by-sides. He admits he was there that day and is part of LE's investigation as a witness. So no one is just dragging him into this like Daniel Nation or other POIs. I still have questions: is he BG? wearing bulky clothes and a hat to disguise himself? I need to listen to all 3 episodes again to understand the connection. But I agree this is a worthwhile topic and hats off to TCG for putting it out there.

    I was electrified by these episodes! I have been wondering about the connection between this guy and the second sketch since I saw a post in the Reddit DelphiMurders sub with a picture of him from the local newspaper and it was so obvious he was the basis for the second sketch - down to his expression. It was as if someone drew the sketch from that picture. Ever since I saw that I have been wondering, were there two killers? was he covering for someone? I recall at the press conference Doug Carter used the words "responsible" as in "this is the person responsible for the murders" and I wondered if the second sketch was meant to let this guy know LE knew he was involved if not the actual killer. Like making him feel guilty for enabling someone else (the older BG sketch). But hearing that he was responsible at least in part for the content of the first sketch really blew my mind. It's like the puzzle pieces are coming together but you still can't see the whole picture. So thanks to TCG for allowing Skip to have a place to discuss this. Even if it is disproved, it is a valid theory to explore. LE is putting the sketch out there, and although you might argue others are comparing that to his photo, his photo is in the local paper for anyone to see, it's not like FB side-by-sides. He admits he was there that day and is part of LE's investigation as a witness. So no one is just dragging him into this like Daniel Nation or other POIs. I still have questions: is he BG? wearing bulky clothes and a hat to disguise himself? I need to listen to all 3 episodes again to understand the connection. But I agree this is a worthwhile topic and hats off to TCG for putting it out there.

  • I thought these 3 episodes were great … but by then end it seems like there could be a 4th and 5th that included motives and some of what Skip alluded to at the end. Is there anything that can be shared to add to the revenge theory? I looked and discovered I believe who DP and won’t share but after seeing pictures yes he’s a dead ringer for the younger drawing absolutely. The more I think about it this has to be a pretty simple case being hampered by a few who are being dishonest. Can anyone confirm if that area near high bridge tends to be foggy? The reason I ask is the fog present in Cheyannes photo doesn’t seem to be present in Liberty’s photo and several have pointed to this as one reason to discount it as legitimate. However I went back and listened to “ Down the Hill” episode one and foggy conditions were mentioned during the search so it made me wonder if they are fairly common in that area? Anyway great 3 episodes… extremely interesting and it really felt like new ground was broken here. Also can anyone comment on the recent blackout on information by the police as to the cause? Is it possible they are close to a major announcement? Thanks

    I thought these 3 episodes were great … but by then end it seems like there could be a 4th and 5th that included motives and some of what Skip alluded to at the end. Is there anything that can be shared to add to the revenge theory?

    I looked and discovered I believe who DP and won’t share but after seeing pictures yes he’s a dead ringer for the younger drawing absolutely.

    The more I think about it this has to be a pretty simple case being hampered by a few who are being dishonest.

    Can anyone confirm if that area near high bridge tends to be foggy? The reason I ask is the fog present in Cheyannes photo doesn’t seem to be present in Liberty’s photo and several have pointed to this as one reason to discount it as legitimate. However I went back and listened to “ Down the Hill” episode one and foggy conditions were mentioned during the search so it made me wonder if they are fairly common in that area?

    Anyway great 3 episodes… extremely interesting and it really felt like new ground was broken here.

    Also can anyone comment on the recent blackout on information by the police as to the cause? Is it possible they are close to a major announcement? Thanks

  • Adriel
    Adriel Roscoe, IL
    I like how we're looking closely at DP who placed himself at the bridge at that time. What do you think of PB as a suspect, whose truck was parked at the cemetery around the same time? He told police he had lost his keys (which he hadn't done because he later produced them) and he was waiting for his wife to bring a spare set (that didn't exist), and to this day his wife says he never lost his keys. He says he was there to look for the girls but it seems he was there even before the families sounded the alarms. Is there anything that clears him as a suspect? It seems these two were both in proximity to the bridge that day.

    I like how we're looking closely at DP who placed himself at the bridge at that time. What do you think of PB as a suspect, whose truck was parked at the cemetery around the same time? He told police he had lost his keys (which he hadn't done because he later produced them) and he was waiting for his wife to bring a spare set (that didn't exist), and to this day his wife says he never lost his keys. He says he was there to look for the girls but it seems he was there even before the families sounded the alarms. Is there anything that clears him as a suspect? It seems these two were both in proximity to the bridge that day.

  • CBH
    CBH NC
    Cheers to Nic and Captain for three episodes on a Monday about this case! Great work! @Skip - I know this might seem like a crazy question, but after listening to the episodes, I can’t get it off my mind…is there any possibility that the BG in the SnapChat pic/video that was released to the public is just someone that was out there that the girls thought was creepy? He looks a lot like the first composite sketch released and the real monster used him as part of his cover (providing “help” as a witness). In other words, do we know for a fact that the guy in the pic/video actually said the words that we’ve heard? Was there a video released where you can see and hear him speaking or are they two separate snaps/recordings? If they are separate, is it possible that there never was video of the real monster, only audio, and therefore they could be two separate people? I hope that makes sense…thanks for all of the info…it was interesteing to hear that the “younger” composite sketch was the first one made and the “older” looking one was the first to be released. I guess that’s why I can’t stop wondering if the video/pic was irrelevant and used as a red herring…

    Cheers to Nic and Captain for three episodes on a Monday about this case! Great work!
    @Skip - I know this might seem like a crazy question, but after listening to the episodes, I can’t get it off my mind…is there any possibility that the BG in the SnapChat pic/video that was released to the public is just someone that was out there that the girls thought was creepy? He looks a lot like the first composite sketch released and the real monster used him as part of his cover (providing “help” as a witness). In other words, do we know for a fact that the guy in the pic/video actually said the words that we’ve heard? Was there a video released where you can see and hear him speaking or are they two separate snaps/recordings? If they are separate, is it possible that there never was video of the real monster, only audio, and therefore they could be two separate people?
    I hope that makes sense…thanks for all of the info…it was interesteing to hear that the “younger” composite sketch was the first one made and the “older” looking one was the first to be released. I guess that’s why I can’t stop wondering if the video/pic was irrelevant and used as a red herring…

  • Derek
    Derek Nebraska
    True Crime Garage - I’ve seen several people ask, “Who is Skip?”, and you seem to be completely dodging the question. Is he a private investigator, former Detective or LE, or a well informed citizen sleuth? If you’re going to give this Skip guy 3 episodes on your show to share his thoughts, then you should at least give us a general introduction as to who he is.

    True Crime Garage - I’ve seen several people ask, “Who is Skip?”, and you seem to be completely dodging the question. Is he a private investigator, former Detective or LE, or a well informed citizen sleuth? If you’re going to give this Skip guy 3 episodes on your show to share his thoughts, then you should at least give us a general introduction as to who he is.

  • B-rad
    B-rad AZ
    Could you provide a little history as to your background on this case personally brought you to this point in time?

    Could you provide a little history as to your background on this case personally brought you to this point in time?

  • Jess Dwight
    Jess Dwight
    @CBH I feel line BG is likely a red herring. After a little sleuthing, I found a picture of DP and his father SP with the sketches side by side. Sketch one looks just like dad and sketch two looks just like son DP. BG could be SP, meant to creep the girls out and cause then to perhaps move to an area away from him? Where SP was waiting for his prey? It’s obviously a long shot and all speculation, but after seeing that photo, it’s hard to unsee. Both sketches could be men who were seen that day. The girls may have known SP but maybe not his father and that’s why they didn’t recognize him as someone they knew and thought he was just some “creepy guy.”

    @CBH I feel line BG is likely a red herring. After a little sleuthing, I found a picture of DP and his father SP with the sketches side by side. Sketch one looks just like dad and sketch two looks just like son DP. BG could be SP, meant to creep the girls out and cause then to perhaps move to an area away from him? Where SP was waiting for his prey? It’s obviously a long shot and all speculation, but after seeing that photo, it’s hard to unsee. Both sketches could be men who were seen that day. The girls may have known SP but maybe not his father and that’s why they didn’t recognize him as someone they knew and thought he was just some “creepy guy.”

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Jess Dwight- I agree that SP does look a lot like the 1st sketch as DP does the 2nd. Is that a coincidence? Maybe. Your hypothesis is certainly possible, although it is something I have never considered.

    Jess Dwight-

    I agree that SP does look a lot like the 1st sketch as DP does the 2nd. Is that a coincidence? Maybe. Your hypothesis is certainly possible, although it is something I have never considered.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Jeff- Injecting himself into the case and changing his appearance are traits that the FBI used. Could he have done those things for the reasons you mentioned? Sure. Or.., could he have done them because they fit the profile of who the FBI believes BG is? IMO... that's very possible as well. One thing to remember... he didn't shave his head and grow a beard until after the 2nd sketch (the one that resembles DP) was released. But... your point is well taken.

    Jeff-

    Injecting himself into the case and changing his appearance are traits that the FBI used. Could he have done those things for the reasons you mentioned? Sure. Or.., could he have done them because they fit the profile of who the FBI believes BG is? IMO... that's very possible as well. One thing to remember... he didn't shave his head and grow a beard until after the 2nd sketch (the one that resembles DP) was released. But... your point is well taken.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Tracy (MA)- Cheyenne never said where she saw DP. She said she arrived at 2:50 and left at 4:00. DP said he arrived at 3:00 and "walked slowly" down the trail. Cheyenne said her photo was taken at 3:00 and uploaded to SN when she got back to the trail head at 3:49. So...it was somewhere in that timeframe.

    Tracy (MA)-

    Cheyenne never said where she saw DP. She said she arrived at 2:50 and left at 4:00. DP said he arrived at 3:00 and "walked slowly" down the trail. Cheyenne said her photo was taken at 3:00 and uploaded to SN when she got back to the trail head at 3:49. So...it was somewhere in that timeframe.

  • Tasha
    Tasha Vancouver, Wa
    I have to say I was stoked to see a 3 part on the Delphi Murderers show up in my stitcher feed yesterday. I immediately started listening. I have to say when the description of Dp was said to be the brother of the girls softball coach my jaw dropped and I got instant chills. A few months ago I watched a video on YouTube from a psychic woman the channel is named sloan Bella. She was so right about so much that matches this theory with Dp. It is spooky. You guys should definitely check it out. Here is the link https://youtu.be/R66vKmWnMfQ

    I have to say I was stoked to see a 3 part on the Delphi Murderers show up in my stitcher feed yesterday. I immediately started listening. I have to say when the description of Dp was said to be the brother of the girls softball coach my jaw dropped and I got instant chills. A few months ago I watched a video on YouTube from a psychic woman the channel is named sloan Bella. She was so right about so much that matches this theory with Dp. It is spooky. You guys should definitely check it out. Here is the link
    https://youtu.be/R66vKmWnMfQ

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    JHigh (TX) - Yes. I believe that the female that DP said he was with talked to LE. I believe the main purpose was to verify where her car was parked. DP originally said he was with his girlfriend, but changed his story to another female. The reason he gave for the change was he was cheating and didn't want that getting out.

    JHigh (TX) -

    Yes. I believe that the female that DP said he was with talked to LE. I believe the main purpose was to verify where her car was parked. DP originally said he was with his girlfriend, but changed his story to another female. The reason he gave for the change was he was cheating and didn't want that getting out.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Dax (Louisiana)- I have never watched any of Grey Hughes' videos, so I don't have an explanation for that. If you are referring to the information that I received from a local friend of mine. Yes... that same person gave Grey the same information as well. It's not a big secret. I've known about well in advance of Grey putting out.

    Dax (Louisiana)-

    I have never watched any of Grey Hughes' videos, so I don't have an explanation for that. If you are referring to the information that I received from a local friend of mine. Yes... that same person gave Grey the same information as well. It's not a big secret. I've known about well in advance of Grey putting out.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    RayRay (Seattle)- Cheyenne said she saw the car and noticed the paper plates. The vehicles (and where they were parked) play a huge role in this case. I believe this sighting was a "red herring". Again... Cheyenne claimed to have seen it when she arrived at 2:50. DP said he didn't arrive until 3:00. So.. how did she see it?

    RayRay (Seattle)-

    Cheyenne said she saw the car and noticed the paper plates. The vehicles (and where they were parked) play a huge role in this case. I believe this sighting was a "red herring". Again... Cheyenne claimed to have seen it when she arrived at 2:50. DP said he didn't arrive until 3:00. So.. how did she see it?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    John (Georgia)- The fog was mentioned as a reason they couldn't start looking as early as they wanted on the morning of the 14th. I would love to do episodes 4 and 5. Hit up Nic and The Captain and demand it. 😂

    John (Georgia)-

    The fog was mentioned as a reason they couldn't start looking as early as they wanted on the morning of the 14th.

    I would love to do episodes 4 and 5. Hit up Nic and The Captain and demand it. 😂

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Cliff (Georgia)- You bring up some interesting points. I believe BG parked at the CPS building using a borrowed car. IMO... that is why Doug Carter asked for "information regarding the driver parked at the old abandoned CPS building". He asked about the "driver", not the vehicle. Also... I do think there is a possibility that It was meeting that got out of hand.

    Cliff (Georgia)-

    You bring up some interesting points. I believe BG parked at the CPS building using a borrowed car. IMO... that is why Doug Carter asked for "information regarding the driver parked at the old abandoned CPS building". He asked about the "driver", not the vehicle. Also... I do think there is a possibility that It was meeting that got out of hand.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Jane (Illinois)- You bring up a lot of good points. Your comment about DP resemblance to the 2nd sketch... "It's almost as if someone drew the sketch from that picture." There is a question I go back and forth on. Did LE know that they had a sketch (done 4 days after the murders) that looked just like a "witness"? Is that the reason they released the 1st sketch? Because they viewed him as a witness?

    Jane (Illinois)-

    You bring up a lot of good points. Your comment about DP resemblance to the 2nd sketch... "It's almost as if someone drew the sketch from that picture." There is a question I go back and forth on. Did LE know that they had a sketch (done 4 days after the murders) that looked just like a "witness"? Is that the reason they released the 1st sketch? Because they viewed him as a witness?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Adriel (Roscoe IL)- I understand why the interest in PB. He lost his keys, was very close during the search, etc. But.. I believe the 2nd sketch is the correct one and BG is a much younger individual.

    Adriel (Roscoe IL)-

    I understand why the interest in PB. He lost his keys, was very close during the search, etc. But.. I believe the 2nd sketch is the correct one and BG is a much younger individual.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    CBH (NC)- I suppose anything is possible. I understand your reasoning (the 1st sketch lines up more with the video) as well. But... LE says that the guy on the bridge with the girls is the killer. So... I have to take them at their word.

    CBH (NC)-

    I suppose anything is possible. I understand your reasoning (the 1st sketch lines up more with the video) as well. But... LE says that the guy on the bridge with the girls is the killer. So... I have to take them at their word.

  • De
    De Nice
    Ok. I just want to toss this out there. It’s questionable if he had a disguise on. The girls were 13/14. I have been that age and it was terribly exciting and flattering to have a man /older guy flirting with you. Has there ever been a deep dive of all their friends and any other social media. Maybe one of them had a crush on an older guy who suggested maybe he would be out there and might run into them. That could be how it was easy for him to control 2 at one time and approaching from a distance where they stood there until he arrived. Maybe they went willingly not expecting what was really going to happen to them.

    Ok. I just want to toss this out there. It’s questionable if he had a disguise on. The girls were 13/14. I have been that age and it was terribly exciting and flattering to have a man /older guy flirting with you. Has there ever been a deep dive of all their friends and any other social media. Maybe one of them had a crush on an older guy who suggested maybe he would be out there and might run into them. That could be how it was easy for him to control 2 at one time and approaching from a distance where they stood there until he arrived. Maybe they went willingly not expecting what was really going to happen to them.

  • Ashley
    Ashley The great white North
    Howdy gang (and skip)! Thanks for the continued coverage and discussion about this case! Out of all the POIs (or PsOI?) we have heard in the orbit of the case, DP is the one that seems MOST plausible given what we currently know. I actually have quite a few questions that I am hoping you can clarify, with source information like media statements etc when possible. 1. The timeline specific to information collected and given out during the first 4 days (Monday Feb 13 - Thursday Feb 16) of this case is really important to Skip's theory, in my opinion, and these are the places I'm getting stuck. Abby and Libby go missing Monday, bodies are found Tuesday. Wednesday LE confirms identities, releases photo and asks public for information. Thursday LE sets up the tipline and asks for witnesses to focus on specific information about BG's appearance in the video, post crime behaviours to watch for in possible suspect, and the initial audio of 'down the hill'. So.. 1. Do we know if FSG gave his statement on Monday, and in this initial statement he indicated to LE that he heard (can you confirm heard not seen?) "a couple arguing under the bridge" and that he responded to DG's question of "have you seen the girls" with this same information? If so, was it released by LE at any time to the public that they were specifically looking for potential witnesses of a "couple arguing under the bridge" in and around the time of the abduction/murder? If no, were FSG and DG discussing this openly around town, or was this information privy only to LE, FSG, and DG? If the information is not just common knowledge around town and hasn't been referenced by LE in their pleas to the public, how exactly does DP come to confirm he is the male of the "arguing couple", thus placing himself at the scene of the crime during a time at which the crime was occuring? If he comes forward as a witness days later (can you confirm the date of his initial witness statement?) claiming he is that guy, does he offer/identify himself as that guy without prior knowledge of an "arguing couple" that was out under the bridge? Because how the heck does he even know there is a "that guy" or that there was an "arguing couple" at all that he can claim to be? Did LE ask him when he came forward that he was there if he was the guy arguing under the bridge, or did he just offer that up unprompted? To me, this distinction so crucial. 2. The first sketch isn't released until July - 5 months after the initial information provided by LE on Thurs Feb 16 - and LE confirms the sketch is from "people coming forward" and from people who saw BG "walking around that day", correct? You say that a good source provided information that many people locally knew there was "another sketch", which implies that the first sketch had been released already. Depending on the actual date that DP comes forward as a witness he either A) knew there was "a" sketch that he had not yet seen and came forward as a witness to place himself at the scene to account for the possibility the sketch closely resembled him or B) came forward as a witness to place himself at the scene because he felt the sketch he has seen did resemble him closely enough that he should put himself there. However, if he was intentionally misleading LE without seeing the first sketch, and the first sketch was influenced by DP's witness statement and claim he saw BG, how could locals knowing there was "another sketch" influence DP's decision to come forward as a witness? 3. DP claims he was the male arguing with a woman under the bridge. He initially claims this is his fiancé, who then denies it was her.. and then, in response to this he changes his story and claims he was having an affair and the woman he was arguing with was someone else? If this is true, has DP identified who the woman he was cheating with is and has LE corroborated this and/or spoken with anyone claiming to be the woman he was cheating and arguing with under the bridge? If LE has identified/spoken with a woman who says she is the female cheater/arguer, then DP is either likely not BG as his presence at the scene is legitimately explained, or the woman is providing a false alibi. If it is the case that LE has not been able to corroborate DP's cheater/argument story by talking to the alleged female cheater/arguer, to me there is absolutely no other reasonable explanation at this point for DP to have been arguing under the bridge with a female voice at the time he said he was, unless he was arguing or communicating verbally with Abby and/or Libby. So if DP came forward to say he was arguing with a woman under the bridge, without prior knowledge of there being a couple arguing under the bridge, and LE has not confirmed the existence of said woman, and the only corroborating evidence is that he was seen in the area, then how has he not been arrested yet?! Is it your theory that if DP is BG there is someone providing a false alibi as the cheater/arguer and this is what is preventing his arrest? I know that is A LOT, so thanks in advance for reading and responding!

    Howdy gang (and skip)!

    Thanks for the continued coverage and discussion about this case! Out of all the POIs (or PsOI?) we have heard in the orbit of the case, DP is the one that seems MOST plausible given what we currently know.

    I actually have quite a few questions that I am hoping you can clarify, with source information like media statements etc when possible.

    1. The timeline specific to information collected and given out during the first 4 days (Monday Feb 13 - Thursday Feb 16) of this case is really important to Skip's theory, in my opinion, and these are the places I'm getting stuck. Abby and Libby go missing Monday, bodies are found Tuesday. Wednesday LE confirms identities, releases photo and asks public for information. Thursday LE sets up the tipline and asks for witnesses to focus on specific information about BG's appearance in the video, post crime behaviours to watch for in possible suspect, and the initial audio of 'down the hill'. So..

    1. Do we know if FSG gave his statement on Monday, and in this initial statement he indicated to LE that he heard (can you confirm heard not seen?) "a couple arguing under the bridge" and that he responded to DG's question of "have you seen the girls" with this same information? If so, was it released by LE at any time to the public that they were specifically looking for potential witnesses of a "couple arguing under the bridge" in and around the time of the abduction/murder? If no, were FSG and DG discussing this openly around town, or was this information privy only to LE, FSG, and DG? If the information is not just common knowledge around town and hasn't been referenced by LE in their pleas to the public, how exactly does DP come to confirm he is the male of the "arguing couple", thus placing himself at the scene of the crime during a time at which the crime was occuring? If he comes forward as a witness days later (can you confirm the date of his initial witness statement?) claiming he is that guy, does he offer/identify himself as that guy without prior knowledge of an "arguing couple" that was out under the bridge? Because how the heck does he even know there is a "that guy" or that there was an "arguing couple" at all that he can claim to be? Did LE ask him when he came forward that he was there if he was the guy arguing under the bridge, or did he just offer that up unprompted? To me, this distinction so crucial.

    2. The first sketch isn't released until July - 5 months after the initial information provided by LE on Thurs Feb 16 - and LE confirms the sketch is from "people coming forward" and from people who saw BG "walking around that day", correct? You say that a good source provided information that many people locally knew there was "another sketch", which implies that the first sketch had been released already. Depending on the actual date that DP comes forward as a witness he either A) knew there was "a" sketch that he had not yet seen and came forward as a witness to place himself at the scene to account for the possibility the sketch closely resembled him or B) came forward as a witness to place himself at the scene because he felt the sketch he has seen did resemble him closely enough that he should put himself there. However, if he was intentionally misleading LE without seeing the first sketch, and the first sketch was influenced by DP's witness statement and claim he saw BG, how could locals knowing there was "another sketch" influence DP's decision to come forward as a witness?

    3. DP claims he was the male arguing with a woman under the bridge. He initially claims this is his fiancé, who then denies it was her.. and then, in response to this he changes his story and claims he was having an affair and the woman he was arguing with was someone else? If this is true, has DP identified who the woman he was cheating with is and has LE corroborated this and/or spoken with anyone claiming to be the woman he was cheating and arguing with under the bridge? If LE has identified/spoken with a woman who says she is the female cheater/arguer, then DP is either likely not BG as his presence at the scene is legitimately explained, or the woman is providing a false alibi. If it is the case that LE has not been able to corroborate DP's cheater/argument story by talking to the alleged female cheater/arguer, to me there is absolutely no other reasonable explanation at this point for DP to have been arguing under the bridge with a female voice at the time he said he was, unless he was arguing or communicating verbally with Abby and/or Libby.

    So if DP came forward to say he was arguing with a woman under the bridge, without prior knowledge of there being a couple arguing under the bridge, and LE has not confirmed the existence of said woman, and the only corroborating evidence is that he was seen in the area, then how has he not been arrested yet?! Is it your theory that if DP is BG there is someone providing a false alibi as the cheater/arguer and this is what is preventing his arrest?

    I know that is A LOT, so thanks in advance for reading and responding!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Dax (Louisiana)- One additional thing.... If you are interested in verifying my statement. You are more than welcome to go to Reddit and look at my comment history. I have been discussing DP for approximately the last 6 months. So... that will prove that I didn't take information from Grey Hughes and manipulate it to fit my narrative. If I am not mistaken GH just recently revealed that information on his show.

    @Dax (Louisiana)-

    One additional thing.... If you are interested in verifying my statement. You are more than welcome to go to Reddit and look at my comment history. I have been discussing DP for approximately the last 6 months. So... that will prove that I didn't take information from Grey Hughes and manipulate it to fit my narrative. If I am not mistaken GH just recently revealed that information on his show.

  • Joe
    Joe Ny
    So many things I have thought about with being brought to light. Its so scary to think this could involve more than one family member. Meaning my thoughts on this have taken me to ask more questions. Like, where was SP and QP on the day in question?

    So many things I have thought about with being brought to light. Its so scary to think this could involve more than one family member. Meaning my thoughts on this have taken me to ask more questions. Like, where was SP and QP on the day in question?

  • Ali
    Ali
    Hi Skip - so great to hear you & I'm so pleased one of my favourite podcasts gave you airtime. You presented clearly & logically. Ignore all those trolls in Reddit. Your friend Ali (u/whoknows64) from NZ. If I wasn't banned from the sub I would be shutting down the trolls (& being accused of being your sock puppet :-) )

    Hi Skip - so great to hear you & I'm so pleased one of my favourite podcasts gave you airtime. You presented clearly & logically. Ignore all those trolls in Reddit. Your friend Ali (u/whoknows64) from NZ. If I wasn't banned from the sub I would be shutting down the trolls (& being accused of being your sock puppet :-) )

  • Debs
    Debs South Africa
    Hi Captain/Col and Skip ,its Debs here all the way from Durban South Africa. I listened to all 3 of these episodes last night and all I can say is WOW! All aspects of these theories with DP are so possible. Something stuck out to me, when it was mentioned that he could have known the girls I remember hearing a while ago that the voice recording of BG the way he addresses the girls sounds like he may well have known them...In my personal opinion if I don't know a person or persons I would never address them as Hey Guys and his tone of voice was quite casual.. It makes me think that the girls may have thought that coz they knew him there was possibly no immediate threat and that he was just a creepy guy they knew and when the arguing was heard under the bridge could have been the girls telling him they wont go anywhere further with him and that's when he became aggressive? Just a thought let me know what you guys think. Thanks for staying on this case and keeping it alive I really think we are almost there with solving this and I believe the Police almost have him. Looking forward to more updates.

    Hi Captain/Col and Skip ,its Debs here all the way from Durban South Africa. I listened to all 3 of these episodes last night and all I can say is WOW! All aspects of these theories with DP are so possible. Something stuck out to me, when it was mentioned that he could have known the girls I remember hearing a while ago that the voice recording of BG the way he addresses the girls sounds like he may well have known them...In my personal opinion if I don't know a person or persons I would never address them as Hey Guys and his tone of voice was quite casual..
    It makes me think that the girls may have thought that coz they knew him there was possibly no immediate threat and that he was just a creepy guy they knew and when the arguing was heard under the bridge could have been the girls telling him they wont go anywhere further with him and that's when he became aggressive? Just a thought let me know what you guys think. Thanks for staying on this case and keeping it alive I really think we are almost there with solving this and I believe the Police almost have him. Looking forward to more updates.

  • Lemon
    Lemon UK
    So this is where your podcast, for me, has completely jumped the shark. Three hours - brought out with a flourish as if there’s some major breakthrough - that does nothing but lend credence to the incoherent ramblings of yet another internet “sleuth”. Let’s get this straight...this Pearson fella (unnamed for “legal reasons” on audio, but freely identified here) waited until video was released of him (assuming he’s the guilty person) to come forward. Because, yeah....that’s what all killers captured on video do, right? Until then no one knew he was there and he was on nobody’s radar but presumably he saw himself on tape (and knew the police likely had more footage & audio of his voice) & thought...”Well, it doesn’t look like me - because I’ve had a haircut - so I’ll insert myself into the case for fun”. What? As far as I can make out he has NOT changed his story “mulitple times” as you keep insisting. He said he was there with his girlfriend. He later clarified that it was not his primary girlfriend. And? The important fact is that he was there with a woman & if he didn’t feel inclined to initially specify that it was a woman he was cheating on his real girlfriend with then who can really blame him? And yes, being where he shouldn’t have been with someone he shouldn’t have been there with could be enough to stop him coming forward if he didn’t think he had any useful info. Then he saw the video and thought...”Oh wait, I saw that guy” and came forward. It is EXTREMELY common for people to think they’ve not seen anything relevant so fail to contact LE. This is why the police always, always say...”if you were there, even if you don’t think you can help, please come forward anyway”. Nothing suspicious about this at all. Him being all over social media claiming to be responsible for the sketch - again, and? He’s an idiotic 22 year old who may have been under the impression that his contribution was more valuable than it actually was so he had a little boast. Big deal. LE probably told him to shut up, so he did. But this biggest problem with all of this is the idiotic belief that the police would have a witness who put himself in the right place at the right time WITH ANOTHER UNIFENTIFIED PERSON & just let it go. Are you insane? That woman, whoever she was, could have seen something vital and LE would have done everything to try and track her down...including a public appeal if Pearson didn’t name her. And if he refused to - and lawyered up, as you claim without evidence - that’s probable cause & he’d have been arrested, for impeding an investigation if nothing else. No - for us to have heard nothing about her means that he did identify her, she was spoken to and they were both eliminated as suspects. Nothing else makes sense. Of course, in common with all true crime zealots, the one witness with evidence that disproves the decided upon narrative must be dismissed as a liar. Why? Because she doesn’t have a forensically perfect timeline. Well, guess what, Skip? No witness ever, ever does. Human beings do not go through their lives synching their every movement against their satellite calibrated watches. Most people have no earthy idea what time they did anything & can usually only give estimates. Sometimes they think longer & harder, check their phones or ask others and are able to give better info to the police. This is NOT “changing their stories multiple times”, it’s providing better information as far as they are able. And you’ve given no credible reason why Cheyenne would be lying in the first place. For attention? What attention - I’ve never seen her thrusting herself into the spotlight. No, you just don’t believe her because it contradicts your pet theory. Pearson was clearly in the park with a woman. Cheyenne saw him. That there have been no public searches for Ms Mysterious indicates that they know who she is and she’s confirmed Pearson’s story. Any other scenario would have seen him arrested, lawyered up or not. And you are truly kidding yourself if you think “Well, LE just thought he was a witness so didn’t investigate him” is any kind of explanation for anything. Some bumbling country sheriff, maybe, but the FBI? A man puts himself in the right place at the right time but won’t identify the one person who could confirm his story...and they are reduced to press conferences with secret coded language aimed at him? You’ve watched too many movies. How absurd. Also, note....it’s impossible for an individual to scrub themselves from the internet, even if they have IT experience. He’d either have to get Google’s help or individually contact every website he’s named on and ask them to take his name down. And that wouldn’t look suspicious to LE at all, right? And what 14 year old girl wants a factory reset to get rid of a few messages? She’d have just deleted them. Unless you’re suggesting she was so techically advanced in her thinking she knew that LE/FBI/CIA etc could still access binned messages so she HAD to factory reset 🙄 And all those precious photos were probably uploaded to IG & FB or the Cloud. No, iproducts clog up easily and slow down making them basically unusable. She probably couldn’t be bothered deleting everything so just wanted a clean slate to start again. Typical 14 year old thinking. I am really surprised you put this rubbish out, Nic. It’s embarrassing & not what I thought you stood for. You have essentially named a “suspect” (in spite of the pretence of keeping his name private on the audio) & provided no sensible, credible evidence against him at all. That’s not only nasty and irresponsbile it’s also EXACTLY what the family and LE have asked people NOT TO DO. How arrogant to go ahead anyway. Clearly this won’t be any loss to you (or me for that matter) but I won’t be listening to you any more. I could just about tolerate “the captain’s” illogical, incoherent twaddle and tedious virtue-signalling when I knew some common sense was going to come from you, Nic, but I am not sure you’re capable of it anymore. And that’s a shame.

    So this is where your podcast, for me, has completely jumped the shark.

    Three hours - brought out with a flourish as if there’s some major breakthrough - that does nothing but lend credence to the incoherent ramblings of yet another internet “sleuth”.

    Let’s get this straight...this Pearson fella (unnamed for “legal reasons” on audio, but freely identified here) waited until video was released of him (assuming he’s the guilty person) to come forward. Because, yeah....that’s what all killers captured on video do, right? Until then no one knew he was there and he was on nobody’s radar but presumably he saw himself on tape (and knew the police likely had more footage & audio of his voice) & thought...”Well, it doesn’t look like me - because I’ve had a haircut - so I’ll insert myself into the case for fun”.

    What?

    As far as I can make out he has NOT changed his story “mulitple times” as you keep insisting. He said he was there with his girlfriend. He later clarified that it was not his primary girlfriend. And? The important fact is that he was there with a woman & if he didn’t feel inclined to initially specify that it was a woman he was cheating on his real girlfriend with then who can really blame him?

    And yes, being where he shouldn’t have been with someone he shouldn’t have been there with could be enough to stop him coming forward if he didn’t think he had any useful info. Then he saw the video and thought...”Oh wait, I saw that guy” and came forward.

    It is EXTREMELY common for people to think they’ve not seen anything relevant so fail to contact LE. This is why the police always, always say...”if you were there, even if you don’t think you can help, please come forward anyway”.

    Nothing suspicious about this at all.

    Him being all over social media claiming to be responsible for the sketch - again, and? He’s an idiotic 22 year old who may have been under the impression that his contribution was more valuable than it actually was so he had a little boast. Big deal. LE probably told him to shut up, so he did.

    But this biggest problem with all of this is the idiotic belief that the police would have a witness who put himself in the right place at the right time WITH ANOTHER UNIFENTIFIED PERSON & just let it go. Are you insane? That woman, whoever she was, could have seen something vital and LE would have done everything to try and track her down...including a public appeal if Pearson didn’t name her. And if he refused to - and lawyered up, as you claim without evidence - that’s probable cause & he’d have been arrested, for impeding an investigation if nothing else.

    No - for us to have heard nothing about her means that he did identify her, she was spoken to and they were both eliminated as suspects. Nothing else makes sense.

    Of course, in common with all true crime zealots, the one witness with evidence that disproves the decided upon narrative must be dismissed as a liar. Why? Because she doesn’t have a forensically perfect timeline. Well, guess what, Skip? No witness ever, ever does. Human beings do not go through their lives synching their every movement against their satellite calibrated watches. Most people have no earthy idea what time they did anything & can usually only give estimates. Sometimes they think longer & harder, check their phones or ask others and are able to give better info to the police. This is NOT “changing their stories multiple times”, it’s providing better information as far as they are able.

    And you’ve given no credible reason why Cheyenne would be lying in the first place. For attention? What attention - I’ve never seen her thrusting herself into the spotlight. No, you just don’t believe her because it contradicts your pet theory.

    Pearson was clearly in the park with a woman. Cheyenne saw him. That there have been no public searches for Ms Mysterious indicates that they know who she is and she’s confirmed Pearson’s story. Any other scenario would have seen him arrested, lawyered up or not.

    And you are truly kidding yourself if you think “Well, LE just thought he was a witness so didn’t investigate him” is any kind of explanation for anything. Some bumbling country sheriff, maybe, but the FBI? A man puts himself in the right place at the right time but won’t identify the one person who could confirm his story...and they are reduced to press conferences with secret coded language aimed at him? You’ve watched too many movies. How absurd.

    Also, note....it’s impossible for an individual to scrub themselves from the internet, even if they have IT experience. He’d either have to get Google’s help or individually contact every website he’s named on and ask them to take his name down. And that wouldn’t look suspicious to LE at all, right?

    And what 14 year old girl wants a factory reset to get rid of a few messages? She’d have just deleted them. Unless you’re suggesting she was so techically advanced in her thinking she knew that LE/FBI/CIA etc could still access binned messages so she HAD to factory reset 🙄 And all those precious photos were probably uploaded to IG & FB or the Cloud. No, iproducts clog up easily and slow down making them basically unusable. She probably couldn’t be bothered deleting everything so just wanted a clean slate to start again. Typical 14 year old thinking.

    I am really surprised you put this rubbish out, Nic. It’s embarrassing & not what I thought you stood for. You have essentially named a “suspect” (in spite of the pretence of keeping his name private on the audio) & provided no sensible, credible evidence against him at all. That’s not only nasty and irresponsbile it’s also EXACTLY what the family and LE have asked people NOT TO DO. How arrogant to go ahead anyway.

    Clearly this won’t be any loss to you (or me for that matter) but I won’t be listening to you any more. I could just about tolerate “the captain’s” illogical, incoherent twaddle and tedious virtue-signalling when I knew some common sense was going to come from you, Nic, but I am not sure you’re capable of it anymore. And that’s a shame.

  • IthinkIknow
    IthinkIknow Parts Unknown
    I've not read the comments exhaustively; however, I concur that Miranda is not a problem (albeit for a slightly different reason than those expressed above). A Miranda warning and a valid waiver of those Miranda rights are prerequisites to admissibility of a statement that is the product of custodial interrogation. So, as a criminal defense lawyer, the first question I ask myself is whether the person giving the statement is "in custody." Loosely-speaking, there are two ways to measure that: if law enforcement has "arrested" the person, and if the person doesn't feel free to leave, then the person is "in custody." If the person is not in custody, then Miranda is not an issue. Another way of saying this is that voluntary statements do not require Miranda warnings and subsequent waivers. A good example is the goofy law student in Georgia who gave an interview to a television reporter about his classmate/neighbor while they were still looking for her. Even if the reporter were law enforcement, that statement would be admissible because the suspect was not "in custody" when he gave the statement. So, when DP(?) gave his statement to law enforcement, the absence of Miranda warnings and valid waivers would not prohibit the admission of that statement into a subsequent criminal prosecution. Just my two cents; I could definitely be wrong.

    I've not read the comments exhaustively; however, I concur that Miranda is not a problem (albeit for a slightly different reason than those expressed above).

    A Miranda warning and a valid waiver of those Miranda rights are prerequisites to admissibility of a statement that is the product of custodial interrogation. So, as a criminal defense lawyer, the first question I ask myself is whether the person giving the statement is "in custody." Loosely-speaking, there are two ways to measure that: if law enforcement has "arrested" the person, and if the person doesn't feel free to leave, then the person is "in custody." If the person is not in custody, then Miranda is not an issue. Another way of saying this is that voluntary statements do not require Miranda warnings and subsequent waivers. A good example is the goofy law student in Georgia who gave an interview to a television reporter about his classmate/neighbor while they were still looking for her. Even if the reporter were law enforcement, that statement would be admissible because the suspect was not "in custody" when he gave the statement.

    So, when DP(?) gave his statement to law enforcement, the absence of Miranda warnings and valid waivers would not prohibit the admission of that statement into a subsequent criminal prosecution. Just my two cents; I could definitely be wrong.

  • joejeroli
    joejeroli Kitchener, ON, Canada
    Hey guys. A question for Skip. Have the authorities tried comparing the "down the hill" voice with the suspect's voice using voice recognition software? There is some really great software out there that can easily do this...and since the suspect didn't know he was being recorded...the matching should be quite easy.

    Hey guys.

    A question for Skip. Have the authorities tried comparing the "down the hill" voice with the suspect's voice using voice recognition software? There is some really great software out there that can easily do this...and since the suspect didn't know he was being recorded...the matching should be quite easy.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Lemon, We knew that not everyone would love this week's shows but we knew a lot of people wold so we put them out. This is a case that has fascinated both myself and the Captain and we are always going to want to work the cases that we are intrigued by its just human nature. The BEST thing about TCG is next week we will be on to a different case and I have to say its a damn good one that I think you will enjoy listening to. Thank you for the feedback and hopefully we can share a beer together next week. Cheers Nic

    Hi Lemon,
    We knew that not everyone would love this week's shows but we knew a lot of people wold so we put them out. This is a case that has fascinated both myself and the Captain and we are always going to want to work the cases that we are intrigued by its just human nature. The BEST thing about TCG is next week we will be on to a different case and I have to say its a damn good one that I think you will enjoy listening to. Thank you for the feedback and hopefully we can share a beer together next week.
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Gray Hughes Hi Gray and welcome back to our blog. I respect a lot of your work but twice you have accused TCG or ripping your material. First off we have on several occasions recommended to our listeners the first season of Scene of the Crime which according to the credits - credits Jessica Bettencourt with writing and research. Jessica is a personal friend of mine and helps me with writing and research here in the garage so to say TCG has ripped your material is a very odd and frankly wrong statement. I have used Scene of the Crime as one of my primary resources when researching this case for most of our TCG episodes and will continue to do so as SOC is one of the best sources for factual information on this case and that is a credit to Jess, You and Mike. However I have been told that True Crime Garage was a resource for Scene when putting together season one. I didn't wine and complain that no one mentioned my name or the Garage. These cases belong to the victims and the investigating agencies that work them and the community where they occurred not to you and I. Please keep the bigger picture in mind. Cheers Nic

    @ Gray Hughes
    Hi Gray and welcome back to our blog. I respect a lot of your work but twice you have accused TCG or ripping your material. First off we have on several occasions recommended to our listeners the first season of Scene of the Crime which according to the credits - credits Jessica Bettencourt with writing and research. Jessica is a personal friend of mine and helps me with writing and research here in the garage so to say TCG has ripped your material is a very odd and frankly wrong statement. I have used Scene of the Crime as one of my primary resources when researching this case for most of our TCG episodes and will continue to do so as SOC is one of the best sources for factual information on this case and that is a credit to Jess, You and Mike. However I have been told that True Crime Garage was a resource for Scene when putting together season one. I didn't wine and complain that no one mentioned my name or the Garage. These cases belong to the victims and the investigating agencies that work them and the community where they occurred not to you and I. Please keep the bigger picture in mind.
    Cheers Nic

  • Joe
    Joe Ny
    So many more questions need to be answered. Could there have been more than one person helping? Like one or even two more people plus BG. The voice on video seems mature, aged. The video of BG resembles a family member of the POI in these three episodes. And to be honest, the brother of DP looks a lot like DP.

    So many more questions need to be answered. Could there have been more than one person helping? Like one or even two more people plus BG. The voice on video seems mature, aged. The video of BG resembles a family member of the POI in these three episodes. And to be honest, the brother of DP looks a lot like DP.

  • Joe
    Joe NY
    Another thing, is that water way deep enough for boat around there or anywhere near the crime scene?

    Another thing, is that water way deep enough for boat around there or anywhere near the crime scene?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Ali- Thank you for listening Ali. I really appreciate the support. It's needed sometimes with all the geniuses out there. 😜

    @Ali-

    Thank you for listening Ali. I really appreciate the support. It's needed sometimes with all the geniuses out there. 😜

  • Joe
    Joe NY
    Furthermore, I find it really odd that the only two people in the POI's family facebook accounts are private but the other two people thats apart of the immediate is not.

    Furthermore, I find it really odd that the only two people in the POI's family facebook accounts are private but the other two people thats apart of the immediate is not.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    De (Nice)- I've heard the "disguise" theory as well. One thing I've never understood is.... why people think that if the girls knew BG, they would have automatically said his name. I've never understood that logic. You mentioned BG's ability to control the girls. I believe that's a huge piece of the pie. LE has said that none of the re-enactments on SM have been correct. It's also been said that Abby could have run. A source told me that Libby had been "dragged". And finally... LE said that one of the girls (presumably Abby) realizes what is about to happen (her murder). I think you can come up with a pretty good hypothesis based on that information.

    De (Nice)-

    I've heard the "disguise" theory as well. One thing I've never understood is.... why people think that if the girls knew BG, they would have automatically said his name. I've never understood that logic.

    You mentioned BG's ability to control the girls. I believe that's a huge piece of the pie. LE has said that none of the re-enactments on SM have been correct. It's also been said that Abby could have run. A source told me that Libby had been "dragged". And finally... LE said that one of the girls (presumably Abby) realizes what is about to happen (her murder). I think you can come up with a pretty good hypothesis based on that information.

  • Lemon
    Lemon UK
    Nic It’s not about “not loving the show” it’s about the staggering irresponsibility of you putting it out at all. You named a suspect & laid out a theory with holes so big you could manoeuvre the International Space Station through them. It’s blatantly obvious that DP didn’t do anything wrong & now he’s likely to get death threats. On his behalf, screw you...hope he sues.

    Nic

    It’s not about “not loving the show” it’s about the staggering irresponsibility of you putting it out at all.

    You named a suspect & laid out a theory with holes so big you could manoeuvre the International Space Station through them.

    It’s blatantly obvious that DP didn’t do anything wrong & now he’s likely to get death threats. On his behalf, screw you...hope he sues.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    JoeJeroli (Kichener ON Canada)- I believe that the "voice recognition software" has been used in this case. I also believe that "facial recognition software" was used by the FBI. I also have thought it was curious when Tobe Leazenby said... "I know that voice. Who is that."

    JoeJeroli (Kichener ON Canada)-

    I believe that the "voice recognition software" has been used in this case. I also believe that "facial recognition software" was used by the FBI.

    I also have thought it was curious when Tobe Leazenby said... "I know that voice. Who is that."

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Debs (South Africa)- IMO... your thoughts are fantastic. Very logical and well thought out. You make some extremely valid points. One of the biggest questions in this case, has been... "why didn't anyone hear anything?" Well.... maybe they did. FSG heard a couple "arguing under the bridge".

    Debs (South Africa)-

    IMO... your thoughts are fantastic. Very logical and well thought out. You make some extremely valid points.

    One of the biggest questions in this case, has been... "why didn't anyone hear anything?"

    Well.... maybe they did. FSG heard a couple "arguing under the bridge".

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo
    Cheers, Nic and Captain! I am feeling a little lost after listening through all 3 episodes 2x. I could really use a follow-up with you guys breaking down the theory (ie, what works and what doesn't), going through each witness and how they relate to each other, and putting it all into context from beginning, middle and end. I am having trouble following where all these moving parts fit in the bigger picture. As always, TCG for life!

    Cheers, Nic and Captain! I am feeling a little lost after listening through all 3 episodes 2x. I could really use a follow-up with you guys breaking down the theory (ie, what works and what doesn't), going through each witness and how they relate to each other, and putting it all into context from beginning, middle and end. I am having trouble following where all these moving parts fit in the bigger picture. As always, TCG for life!

  • Betania
    Betania Uk
    Thank you for the great episodes, very intriguing theory. I always had the feeling that the police was talking directly to someone during that press conference. It seems like they just need one person to come forward to make everything fit. Here’s hoping. Xx

    Thank you for the great episodes, very intriguing theory. I always had the feeling that the police was talking directly to someone during that press conference. It seems like they just need one person to come forward to make everything fit. Here’s hoping. Xx

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Ashley (The Great White North)- Wow! What a post. You obviously have been following the case and know a lot a about it. And... I agree that DP is the most plausible POI. Let me see if I can address your questions in the order that you asked. Also... I am glad you are focusing on the timeline, as it is critical to this case. 1) I'm not sure exactly which day FSG made the statement to LE, but it was very early on. There was nothing made public, at that time, regarding an "arguing couple". DG and FSG were not "openly discussing this around town". As far as I know... DG and FSG have never said a word publicly". I think I see what you are saying... DP came forward at least a week after the murders. He said he saw the photo on TV and said... "that's the guy I saw. He admitted to being "arguing couple guy" as a way to explain the female not seeing BG at all (even though DP said he passed right by them). I believe he came forward unaware of FSG's statement. I believe he offered the "arguing couple" part impromptu. 2) I believe DP came forward because he heard there was "a sketch". I said "another sketch" in relation to the first sketch as we see it now. DP contributed to the 1st sketch, but had heard of another sketch that was done. A couple of things- The killer wouldn't have to know if the sketch resembled him or not. He's the killer. He knows he did it. He would think someone saw him and assume the sketch resembles him. Why would he think it look likes anyone else? He came forward because he believed he was seen and needed corroboration to place him anywhere else but the crime scene. All of the other post-crime stuff is him adjusting his story as information comes in. "You want to know what we know". LE has said ten times that they know BG is following the case. 3) DP has never stated publicly the name of the female he was with. And yes... LE knows who this person is. I believe she is the one providing the false alibi. I believe that is what is preventing an arrest. I hope I've answered your question. Again... enjoyed your post very much. Great insight.

    @Ashley (The Great White North)-

    Wow! What a post. You obviously have been following the case and know a lot a about it. And... I agree that DP is the most plausible POI. Let me see if I can address your questions in the order that you asked. Also... I am glad you are focusing on the timeline, as it is critical to this case.

    1) I'm not sure exactly which day FSG made the statement to LE, but it was very early on. There was nothing made public, at that time, regarding an "arguing couple". DG and FSG were not "openly discussing this around town". As far as I know... DG and FSG have never said a word publicly".

    I think I see what you are saying... DP came forward at least a week after the murders. He said he saw the photo on TV and said... "that's the guy I saw. He admitted to being "arguing couple guy" as a way to explain the female not seeing BG at all (even though DP said he passed right by them). I believe he came forward unaware of FSG's statement. I believe he offered the "arguing couple" part impromptu.

    2) I believe DP came forward because he heard there was "a sketch". I said "another sketch" in relation to the first sketch as we see it now. DP contributed to the 1st sketch, but had heard of another sketch that was done. A couple of things- The killer wouldn't have to know if the sketch resembled him or not. He's the killer. He knows he did it. He would think someone saw him and assume the sketch resembles him. Why would he think it look likes anyone else? He came forward because he believed he was seen and needed corroboration to place him anywhere else but the crime scene. All of the other post-crime stuff is him adjusting his story as information comes in. "You want to know what we know". LE has said ten times that they know BG is following the case.

    3) DP has never stated publicly the name of the female he was with. And yes... LE knows who this person is. I believe she is the one providing the false alibi. I believe that is what is preventing an arrest.

    I hope I've answered your question. Again... enjoyed your post very much. Great insight.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Joe (NY)- Yes. The water, in the creek, is deep enough for a small boat. I don't think you are the only one that finds the Facebook situation odd.

    Joe (NY)-

    Yes. The water, in the creek, is deep enough for a small boat.

    I don't think you are the only one that finds the Facebook situation odd.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Dax (Louisiana)- Last thing regarding your Grey Hughes comment. The source of the information has contacted GH via text letting him know that he gave me this information well prior to GH releasing any of it. So... I guess that will wrap that up.

    @Dax (Louisiana)-

    Last thing regarding your Grey Hughes comment. The source of the information has contacted GH via text letting him know that he gave me this information well prior to GH releasing any of it.

    So... I guess that will wrap that up.

  • Toni
    Toni Srbija
    @Skip can you give us some direction where we can read about your mentioned theory at end of the 3rd ep (I guess somewhere on reddit or subred but would be nice to get any link).

    @Skip can you give us some direction where we can read about your mentioned theory at end of the 3rd ep (I guess somewhere on reddit or subred but would be nice to get any link).

  • Tiffany
    Tiffany Parts Unknown
    @Skip Great interview on TCG! You have done your research clearly! Few questions for you- Is DP the DP that has a wedding website for an upcoming wedding? If this is him, very interesting how there are no pictures of him on the website. If this is the same DP, is the bride to be the same girlfriend DP was cheating on when he was at the bridge? Has she come forward with any information? During the Press Conference it sounded to me as LE knows who the killer is. Do you feel this way? Everything DC said during the PC makes me think he was talking directly to him. What would make LE shut completely down for 2 plus years with nothing? What is LE waiting on? I read that everyone who was present at the Press Conference in 2019 had to sign an attendance log for LE? Is this true do you know? If so, was DP signed in? Or was any of his family present or signed in? I am wondering if DG ever states he sees DP when he arrives looking for the girls when they don't answer the phone calls from him? Has DP ever contacted you via social media or any of the forums discussing the case? Has he tried contacting TCG? He likes to be involved in the case with LE why would he not reach out to you too? At the end of episode 3 of TCG you state-you said you think there is a drug and revenge component here. Would you please elaborate more on this? What are your thoughts on JBC as a suspect? Is that pure coincidence? Thank you so much. I hope these episodes will help get the killer off the streets.

    @Skip
    Great interview on TCG! You have done your research clearly! Few questions for you-
    Is DP the DP that has a wedding website for an upcoming wedding? If this is him, very interesting how there are no pictures of him on the website. If this is the same DP, is the bride to be the same girlfriend DP was cheating on when he was at the bridge? Has she come forward with any information?
    During the Press Conference it sounded to me as LE knows who the killer is. Do you feel this way? Everything DC said during the PC makes me think he was talking directly to him. What would make LE shut completely down for 2 plus years with nothing? What is LE waiting on?
    I read that everyone who was present at the Press Conference in 2019 had to sign an attendance log for LE? Is this true do you know? If so, was DP signed in? Or was any of his family present or signed in?
    I am wondering if DG ever states he sees DP when he arrives looking for the girls when they don't answer the phone calls from him?
    Has DP ever contacted you via social media or any of the forums discussing the case? Has he tried contacting TCG? He likes to be involved in the case with LE why would he not reach out to you too?
    At the end of episode 3 of TCG you state-you said you think there is a drug and revenge component here. Would you please elaborate more on this?
    What are your thoughts on JBC as a suspect? Is that pure coincidence?
    Thank you so much. I hope these episodes will help get the killer off the streets.

  • Scarlet Begoinas
    Scarlet Begoinas Shakedown Street
    LEMON (UK): Well said. Your thorough comment has made any input I have irrelevant. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. SKIP JANSEN: I'd be interested in your qualifications to present anyone as a suspect/discuss this case with any legitimacy because your "suspect" hasn't washed his presence from the internet in the least. A simple, two-minute background check (something that TCG can well afford) turned up his current, active, and verified social media as well as professional media accounts. Did you make that statement to discourage listeners from searching for and harassing him? Doubtful, as you had no issue doxxing him in the comments here, which is an interesting concept of legalities to be sure; doing that in print carries consequences as well as doing so on a podcast. Just as an endnote, in rural areas, not all cell phone service providers are created equally! Unless you know the girls' carriers as well as Cheyenne's, it's more likely than not that you're blowing her timeline discrepancy out of proportion because if they had separate service providers, one could easily have provided coverage in that region while the other didn't. This is not a rare occurrence. TCG: I understand that this case is an attention-grabber and therefore a revenue-booster, but for the love of God/beer/human decency/[insert what you love here], PLEASE use better judgement when inviting guests on your show! SJ was about as credible a source as Sylvia Browne would have been. Spitballing theories amongst friends is fine - I'm sure we all do it - but to publish a three-part episode while you do so is egregious. To blatantly disregard and disrespect the girls' families and LE is something that a podcast with your experience and standing should have known better than to do.

    LEMON (UK): Well said. Your thorough comment has made any input I have irrelevant. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

    SKIP JANSEN: I'd be interested in your qualifications to present anyone as a suspect/discuss this case with any legitimacy because your "suspect" hasn't washed his presence from the internet in the least. A simple, two-minute background check (something that TCG can well afford) turned up his current, active, and verified social media as well as professional media accounts. Did you make that statement to discourage listeners from searching for and harassing him? Doubtful, as you had no issue doxxing him in the comments here, which is an interesting concept of legalities to be sure; doing that in print carries consequences as well as doing so on a podcast. Just as an endnote, in rural areas, not all cell phone service providers are created equally! Unless you know the girls' carriers as well as Cheyenne's, it's more likely than not that you're blowing her timeline discrepancy out of proportion because if they had separate service providers, one could easily have provided coverage in that region while the other didn't. This is not a rare occurrence.

    TCG: I understand that this case is an attention-grabber and therefore a revenue-booster, but for the love of God/beer/human decency/[insert what you love here], PLEASE use better judgement when inviting guests on your show! SJ was about as credible a source as Sylvia Browne would have been. Spitballing theories amongst friends is fine - I'm sure we all do it - but to publish a three-part episode while you do so is egregious. To blatantly disregard and disrespect the girls' families and LE is something that a podcast with your experience and standing should have known better than to do.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Ashley (Great White North)- One additional item regarding the timeline. My source said that LE knows BG was at the crime scene at least 20 minutes after Derrick arrived. That would put him there until 3:35. So... how did DP see BG leaving toward the Freedom Bridge at 3:15? Again... is this why he re-canted and said he possibly saw FSG? Because he knows (based on information released) that his story didn't make sense and it also puts him in virtually the same place as FSG? And again... DP claimed that BG was wearing a scarf over his face. FSG wasn't wearing a scarf. He wasn't wearing a blue jacket either. So... why did he think he saw FSG? Ashley- The post-crime activity is crucial to completely understand the case. You are definitely asking the right questions. I think you just about have it.

    @Ashley (Great White North)-

    One additional item regarding the timeline. My source said that LE knows BG was at the crime scene at least 20 minutes after Derrick arrived. That would put him there until 3:35. So... how did DP see BG leaving toward the Freedom Bridge at 3:15?

    Again... is this why he re-canted and said he possibly saw FSG? Because he knows (based on information released) that his story didn't make sense and it also puts him in virtually the same place as FSG? And again... DP claimed that BG was wearing a scarf over his face. FSG wasn't wearing a scarf. He wasn't wearing a blue jacket either. So... why did he think he saw FSG?

    Ashley- The post-crime activity is crucial to completely understand the case. You are definitely asking the right questions. I think you just about have it.

  • Cookie
    Cookie Kansas
    IMO BG is not DP. DP is suspect. But If I’m wrong I think DP had training from somewhere. This isn’t normal for a 22 year old home boy to be this stealth especially in control tactics.

    IMO BG is not DP. DP is suspect. But If I’m wrong I think DP had training from somewhere. This isn’t normal for a 22 year old home boy to be this stealth especially in control tactics.

  • Brandon Sanders
    Brandon Sanders Visalia, CA
    I may have missed something, but have they determined that it was only one killer? And if so how? And if not how do we know that the person who posted the picture (forgetting her name) is not invoked in the murders and that’s why she has conflicting statements?

    I may have missed something, but have they determined that it was only one killer? And if so how? And if not how do we know that the person who posted the picture (forgetting her name) is not invoked in the murders and that’s why she has conflicting statements?

  • Nic
    Nic UK
    Is it possible that either Cheyenne or Cheryl were actually the mystery person with DP that day if he was with someone? Maybe thats why his alibi was ‘verified’ by Cheyenne. Did you say Cheyenne & Cheryl & DP all know each other. Also is it feasible that if DP was actually there with a female that day that they would have arrived in the same vehicle if that female wasn’t his fiancé? Surely they wouldn’t have wanted to take the chance of being seen together so would have arrived separately, meaning his car and her car should have been there in the parking lot or the parking lot & the old CPS building? Throwing into doubt the 2 car sighting even more as by the time the cars were seen there surely should have been at least 3 or more if you count Derrick’s. The metadata of the photo Cheyenne took would prove when that was taken so do we know if the police ever checked that? I find it curious that no witnesses saw Cheyenne, or Cheryl. For me, Skips theory holds water. Are there things that don’t quite add up, yes of course but that’s the way of things for most theories and even factual recounts of events sometimes make you scratch your head and wonder how the events happened that way. I do believe, I have to believe that Carter knows in his heart who did this, he just needs the evidence or tip to back up what he can’t yet prove. I just want the families and the good people investigating the hell out of these awful murders that Abby & Libby have touched the hearts of people all around the world, this is bigger than just the USA. Around the world we care, we care deeply that the person or people responsible for this are brought to justice…I feel that day is coming soon now, I honestly do. Thank you for keeping Abby & Libby’s story out there. We know you won’t ever stop!

    Is it possible that either Cheyenne or Cheryl were actually the mystery person with DP that day if he was with someone? Maybe thats why his alibi was ‘verified’ by Cheyenne. Did you say Cheyenne & Cheryl & DP all know each other.

    Also is it feasible that if DP was actually there with a female that day that they would have arrived in the same vehicle if that female wasn’t his fiancé? Surely they wouldn’t have wanted to take the chance of being seen together so would have arrived separately, meaning his car and her car should have been there in the parking lot or the parking lot & the old CPS building? Throwing into doubt the 2 car sighting even more as by the time the cars were seen there surely should have been at least 3 or more if you count Derrick’s.

    The metadata of the photo Cheyenne took would prove when that was taken so do we know if the police ever checked that? I find it curious that no witnesses saw Cheyenne, or Cheryl.

    For me, Skips theory holds water. Are there things that don’t quite add up, yes of course but that’s the way of things for most theories and even factual recounts of events sometimes make you scratch your head and wonder how the events happened that way. I do believe, I have to believe that Carter knows in his heart who did this, he just needs the evidence or tip to back up what he can’t yet prove.

    I just want the families and the good people investigating the hell out of these awful murders that Abby & Libby have touched the hearts of people all around the world, this is bigger than just the USA. Around the world we care, we care deeply that the person or people responsible for this are brought to justice…I feel that day is coming soon now, I honestly do. Thank you for keeping Abby & Libby’s story out there. We know you won’t ever stop!

  • Candace
    Candace Los Angeles
    Sawl. Sawl. Sawl. C'mon, guys, the past tense of "to see" is saw. Saul is in the Bible. Let's be mature podcasters and work on our pronunciation.

    Sawl. Sawl. Sawl.

    C'mon, guys, the past tense of "to see" is saw. Saul is in the Bible.

    Let's be mature podcasters and work on our pronunciation.

  • LC
    LC NC
    Y'all should be ashamed for this 3 hour long charade and the way you came at kelsi on twitter. You're basically insinuating at the end that one of the girls was collateral damage for some sort of white collar crime gone wrong? From where , for what? Some tosser from reddit who gets snarky with people when they do not agree and has about 20 alt accounts attacking people? Good god.

    Y'all should be ashamed for this 3 hour long charade and the way you came at kelsi on twitter. You're basically insinuating at the end that one of the girls was collateral damage for some sort of white collar crime gone wrong? From where , for what? Some tosser from reddit who gets snarky with people when they do not agree and has about 20 alt accounts attacking people? Good god.

  • HeyNow
    HeyNow NY
    Wow, you guys ruffled some feathers with this one. I appreciate all the hard work, but this was a 3 part conspiracy theory. Yikes. I'll be back with a cold beer next week. Hoping it's back to your roots. Cheers.

    Wow, you guys ruffled some feathers with this one. I appreciate all the hard work, but this was a 3 part conspiracy theory. Yikes.

    I'll be back with a cold beer next week. Hoping it's back to your roots. Cheers.

  • Kelly
    Kelly Florida
    Skip, excellent points and info! Question, you commented the 2nd sketch was from a witness that saw something that needed to be reported that day. Can u elaborate more about what they saw?

    Skip, excellent points and info! Question, you commented the 2nd sketch was from a witness that saw something that needed to be reported that day. Can u elaborate more about what they saw?

  • Eric
    Eric Buffalo NY
    Skip is Cheyanne friends with D.P.? If she is I find it strange she said a hetrosexual couple to describe him. If those are the words she chose.

    Skip is Cheyanne friends with D.P.? If she is I find it strange she said a hetrosexual couple to describe him. If those are the words she chose.

  • Tony
    Tony Cape Cod
    TMFA. The acronyms are out of control. You explained FSG, but then started saying FSU without explaining it at all. A mistake? At any rate, if FSG's name is known to be McCain, USE THE NAME.

    TMFA. The acronyms are out of control. You explained FSG, but then started saying FSU without explaining it at all. A mistake? At any rate, if FSG's name is known to be McCain, USE THE NAME.

  • Rob
    Rob Washington
    The only way, and I mean ONLY way these episodes makes sense is if someone in LE and close to the investigation encouraged you guys to do this to put heat on this so-called suspect. Otherwise these episodes are incredibly irresponsible and self-serving. And I’m a long time TCG listener. I don’t know if your guest is right or not but usually people pushing theories who have an answer or explanation for everything are more interested in being right than getting it right

    The only way, and I mean ONLY way these episodes makes sense is if someone in LE and close to the investigation encouraged you guys to do this to put heat on this so-called suspect. Otherwise these episodes are incredibly irresponsible and self-serving. And I’m a long time TCG listener.

    I don’t know if your guest is right or not but usually people pushing theories who have an answer or explanation for everything are more interested in being right than getting it right

  • phallguy
    phallguy PA
    Hi, A few questions comments... There is a DP FB page that seems to be on par with the theory Skip is presenting. Are you aware of this FB page? If so, do you know who owns it? In regards to the younger sketch, it always bugged me as to how they knew what his hair was like. In the video/photo, it's apparent that BG is wearing a hat, yet the sketch has no hat and also the hair is prominent. Can it be assumed that the eyewitnesses that provided details of the younger sketch saw BG without a hat? If so, where did hat go?

    Hi,

    A few questions comments...

    There is a DP FB page that seems to be on par with the theory Skip is presenting. Are you aware of this FB page? If so, do you know who owns it?

    In regards to the younger sketch, it always bugged me as to how they knew what his hair was like. In the video/photo, it's apparent that BG is wearing a hat, yet the sketch has no hat and also the hair is prominent. Can it be assumed that the eyewitnesses that provided details of the younger sketch saw BG without a hat? If so, where did hat go?

  • Joe
    Joe NY
    Well anywho, thank you guys for making this podcast easy to listen to. You guys make my work week fly by! Skip, thank you for a new way to look at this very fascinating case. For everyones' life this has effected either way good or bad may it be brought to light in The Most High of Highs.

    Well anywho, thank you guys for making this podcast easy to listen to. You guys make my work week fly by! Skip, thank you for a new way to look at this very fascinating case. For everyones' life this has effected either way good or bad may it be brought to light in The Most High of Highs.

  • Nicole
    Nicole IN
    I’ve not seen the photo posted by Cheyenne, but I don’t think it’s at all possible for there to have been fog that day. It was uncharacteristically warm. A warm February day in mid-Indiana is a blessing. Was there snow on the ground? At 249 or even 349 there wouldn’t have been fog unless maybe there was snow on the ground. But still, the heat of the day would’ve burnt away any possibility of fog. I think her camera lens was dirty/smudgy. Happens all the time to mine. In and out of pockets. Dirty fingers grabbing it. Take a picture and you don’t realize it’s hazy until after you look at it. But she couldn’t post at time she was there because of poor cell service so she posted later—her hazy picture—because the whole point is to post your experience not always the quality. I think you are too caught up on the time stamp and if it happened that day or not. It probably did. Also, I had a 15 yr old at the time of the murders and she had a finsta—they all did. I was friends with her on her normal insta and I had all her passwords for all her social media but only later, as she got older, did I ever hear about her finsta and her tricks to keep me from knowing what she was really doing—deleting apps and downloading them when she wanted to use them. Maybe that’s why Libby scrubbed her phone. She was a teen girl. Delphi is boring. Excitement. Her phone knew everything.

    I’ve not seen the photo posted by Cheyenne, but I don’t think it’s at all possible for there to have been fog that day. It was uncharacteristically warm. A warm February day in mid-Indiana is a blessing. Was there snow on the ground? At 249 or even 349 there wouldn’t have been fog unless maybe there was snow on the ground. But still, the heat of the day would’ve burnt away any possibility of fog. I think her camera lens was dirty/smudgy. Happens all the time to mine. In and out of pockets. Dirty fingers grabbing it. Take a picture and you don’t realize it’s hazy until after you look at it. But she couldn’t post at time she was there because of poor cell service so she posted later—her hazy picture—because the whole point is to post your experience not always the quality. I think you are too caught up on the time stamp and if it happened that day or not. It probably did.
    Also, I had a 15 yr old at the time of the murders and she had a finsta—they all did. I was friends with her on her normal insta and I had all her passwords for all her social media but only later, as she got older, did I ever hear about her finsta and her tricks to keep me from knowing what she was really doing—deleting apps and downloading them when she wanted to use them. Maybe that’s why Libby scrubbed her phone. She was a teen girl. Delphi is boring. Excitement. Her phone knew everything.

  • Jib
    Jib Cut Thereof
    A prior poster aptly cited Occam's Razor, which generally holds that when weighing competing theories, the simplest one is preferable to the more complex. The DP-as-suspect theory is complex: it took 3 hard-to-follow episodes to tease out and relies upon speculation about important details that only law enforcement presently knows. It also seems based upon an assumption that local, state, and federal law enforcement all missed critical clues and the lack inductive reasoning skills of your average Internet sleuth. Consider the simpler theory/explanation: local, state and federal law enforcement have done their jobs with a minimal amount of competence, using evidence and analysis that are not yet known to the public. If so, they have already closely scrutinized DP (along with his female alibi) and have come to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to consider him a suspect or even a person of interest (as far as we know, and at least for now).

    A prior poster aptly cited Occam's Razor, which generally holds that when weighing competing theories, the simplest one is preferable to the more complex.

    The DP-as-suspect theory is complex: it took 3 hard-to-follow episodes to tease out and relies upon speculation about important details that only law enforcement presently knows. It also seems based upon an assumption that local, state, and federal law enforcement all missed critical clues and the lack inductive reasoning skills of your average Internet sleuth.

    Consider the simpler theory/explanation: local, state and federal law enforcement have done their jobs with a minimal amount of competence, using evidence and analysis that are not yet known to the public. If so, they have already closely scrutinized DP (along with his female alibi) and have come to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to consider him a suspect or even a person of interest (as far as we know, and at least for now).

  • LR
    LR Nova Scotia
    Skip, can you shed any light on what vengeance or motive you were talking about?

    Skip, can you shed any light on what vengeance or motive you were talking about?

  • Tracy
    Tracy MA
    Thanks Skip, I appreciate your taking the time to read and respond to everyone. I still feel like I don't understand the issue with Cheyanne's alibi. If it was fake/she may not have been there that day as you suggested, it seems like the alibi would have had to have been worked out with the perp prior/in real time, not solicited in response to the release of a sketch days later, if in fact she posted photos of the trail on social media the day of (regardless of how old the actual photos were). But again, maybe I'm lost in the course of the narrative. I'd be interested to know if Nic ended up making sense of this in his mind.

    Thanks Skip, I appreciate your taking the time to read and respond to everyone. I still feel like I don't understand the issue with Cheyanne's alibi. If it was fake/she may not have been there that day as you suggested, it seems like the alibi would have had to have been worked out with the perp prior/in real time, not solicited in response to the release of a sketch days later, if in fact she posted photos of the trail on social media the day of (regardless of how old the actual photos were). But again, maybe I'm lost in the course of the narrative. I'd be interested to know if Nic ended up making sense of this in his mind.

  • Amber
    Amber OK
    Interesting series. I'm curious as to why all three episodes were released the same day and so quickly after authorities imposed an information blackout on possible suspects.

    Interesting series. I'm curious as to why all three episodes were released the same day and so quickly after authorities imposed an information blackout on possible suspects.

  • Angela
    Angela OH
    TCG and Skip, I finally got around to listening to this 3- parter, and as a non-Reddit person, I found this to be enlightening information. I wasn’t aware of the peripheral players involved, other than what few witness statements have been put out there, so although this was all just speculative, I found it to be a worthy listen. I do have a few questions/statements, however, about this theory: 1) I have never believed the girls were out there for a meet-up with a guy. There’s just too much evidence that points away from that. The hike on the trails appeared to be an impromptu activity. The girls didn’t have permission or a ride lined up until they decided to go, and if a meet-up was part of their agenda, no evidence of it has been said to be on the girls’ phones or social media accounts. If they didn’t know they were going until just before they left the house, they wouldn’t have been able to confirm the meet-up for a specific time or place. Even if they were known to their killer, he may have been more aware of them and who they were than they were of him. Not all young girls are into the attentions of older guys 2) However, I don’t think the girls were targeted, even if their killer knew them. This goes along with a pet theory/amateur investigation of my own, but I believe BG may have walked from the car parked at CPS along the road that turns into the driveway under the bridge, and I think he left the same way. I think he came up the hill to the bridge to lie in wait for a chance victim(s). He may have done this before with no “luck,” but this time happened upon 2 victims. I think, that as the girls neared the end of the bridge, he stepped out and gave them the creeps. I think he initially walked past them on the bridge, maybe to size up the situation and consider if he could handle 2 victims. Then he made a wide turn back towards them, which triggered Libby to get out her phone. Again, just a theory. So, if that is a plausible way it could have happened, could BG have been seen somewhere other than the trails? Also, another theory I have is that the “arguing couple” may have occurred because one or both of the girls made a break for it and tried to run. Given what we have been told about the girls’ personalities and Libby’s athleticism, I find it hard to imagine they wouldn’t have made the attempt. He may have only intended to take them under the bridge, and they are the ones who ran for the creek. He probably caught up with them going up the bank. But the audio/video recording that we haven’t heard could put that theory to pasture, I suppose. 3) So, my question about DP being the perp is this: do you think that (surely) DP’s witness statement was recorded, and if so, would there be enough of a recording of BG’s voice to make any kind of comparison with some kind of voice analyzer? This case has gotten under my skin from the beginning. The area surrounding Delphi doesn’t look any different from where I hung out as a kid, and my best friend and I were always going off on spontaneous hikes. We still like to hike these hills together, and our parents wouldn’t have thought any more about it beyond, “Don’t fall into the creek/gully/bridge and break a leg!” If we didn’t come back when we were expected, searchers would’ve been looking for us to be lost or injured, not murdered; just as in this case. Sorry so long! Thanks for the listen, guys, and keep it coming! Cheers!

    TCG and Skip,
    I finally got around to listening to this 3- parter, and as a non-Reddit person, I found this to be enlightening information. I wasn’t aware of the peripheral players involved, other than what few witness statements have been put out there, so although this was all just speculative, I found it to be a worthy listen.

    I do have a few questions/statements, however, about this theory:
    1) I have never believed the girls were out there for a meet-up with a guy. There’s just too much evidence that points away from that. The hike on the trails appeared to be an impromptu activity. The girls didn’t have permission or a ride lined up until they decided to go, and if a meet-up was part of their agenda, no evidence of it has been said to be on the girls’ phones or social media accounts. If they didn’t know they were going until just before they left the house, they wouldn’t have been able to confirm the meet-up for a specific time or place.
    Even if they were known to their killer, he may have been more aware of them and who they were than they were of him. Not all young girls are into the attentions of older guys

    2) However, I don’t think the girls were targeted, even if their killer knew them. This goes along with a pet theory/amateur investigation of my own, but I believe BG may have walked from the car parked at CPS along the road that turns into the driveway under the bridge, and I think he left the same way. I think he came up the hill to the bridge to lie in wait for a chance victim(s). He may have done this before with no “luck,” but this time happened upon 2 victims. I think, that as the girls neared the end of the bridge, he stepped out and gave them the creeps. I think he initially walked past them on the bridge, maybe to size up the situation and consider if he could handle 2 victims. Then he made a wide turn back towards them, which triggered Libby to get out her phone. Again, just a theory.

    So, if that is a plausible way it could have happened, could BG have been seen somewhere other than the trails?

    Also, another theory I have is that the “arguing couple” may have occurred because one or both of the girls made a break for it and tried to run. Given what we have been told about the girls’ personalities and Libby’s athleticism, I find it hard to imagine they wouldn’t have made the attempt. He may have only intended to take them under the bridge, and they are the ones who ran for the creek. He probably caught up with them going up the bank. But the audio/video recording that we haven’t heard could put that theory to pasture, I suppose.

    3) So, my question about DP being the perp is this: do you think that (surely) DP’s witness statement was recorded, and if so, would there be enough of a recording of BG’s voice to make any kind of comparison with some kind of voice analyzer?

    This case has gotten under my skin from the beginning. The area surrounding Delphi doesn’t look any different from where I hung out as a kid, and my best friend and I were always going off on spontaneous hikes. We still like to hike these hills together, and our parents wouldn’t have thought any more about it beyond, “Don’t fall into the creek/gully/bridge and break a leg!” If we didn’t come back when we were expected, searchers would’ve been looking for us to be lost or injured, not murdered; just as in this case.

    Sorry so long! Thanks for the listen, guys, and keep it coming! Cheers!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Toni- Below is a link to my Reddit comment history. This comment would be a good place to start, as this was about the time I started discussing DP. A warning though- As you move forward... you will start to notice a lot of pushback from several users. A lot of unsubstantiated accusations and threats. It's strange... you can literally bring up any POI and nobody says a word. But... if you mention DP, all hell breaks loose. https://www.reddit.com/r/LibbyandAbby/comments/m34e6u/what_is_your_profile_of_the_killers/gqn0bzo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

    @Toni-

    Below is a link to my Reddit comment history. This comment would be a good place to start, as this was about the time I started discussing DP.

    A warning though- As you move forward... you will start to notice a lot of pushback from several users. A lot of unsubstantiated accusations and threats. It's strange... you can literally bring up any POI and nobody says a word. But... if you mention DP, all hell breaks loose.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/LibbyandAbby/comments/m34e6u/what_is_your_profile_of_the_killers/gqn0bzo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Brandon Sanders- That's interesting!

    @Brandon Sanders-

    That's interesting!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Tiffany (Parts Unknown)- Yes. That is the same DP. Also... yes, that is the same girlfriend he had at the time of the murders. She has not come forward with anything that I am aware of. I definitely believe LE knows who the killer is. And... I agree that the press conference was pointed at one particular individual. My belief is that LE has "shut down" because they know BG is following the case (have mentioned it numerous times) and has used public information to his advantage. I'm not sure if DP was at the 2019 P.C. or not. I kinda doubt. But... I believe (like Carter said)... he was close by watching. DG has never mentioned seeing DP as far as I know. I don't know for sure if DP has ever tried to contact me. I do know that one of his buddies did though. Yes... I stated that there is drug and revenge component, but... it's more personal than that. I can't say too much about it, but... I'll say this (since I did mention it on the podcast)... The revenge could stem from the negative outcome of a drug (fentanyl). Sorry.. can't say more. What do I think of JBC as a suspect? LE said the community will be shocked when BG is arrested. Would anybody be shocked if it was that guy?

    @Tiffany (Parts Unknown)-

    Yes. That is the same DP. Also... yes, that is the same girlfriend he had at the time of the murders. She has not come forward with anything that I am aware of.

    I definitely believe LE knows who the killer is. And... I agree that the press conference was pointed at one particular individual. My belief is that LE has "shut down" because they know BG is following the case (have mentioned it numerous times) and has used public information to his advantage. I'm not sure if DP was at the 2019 P.C. or not. I kinda doubt. But... I believe (like Carter said)... he was close by watching. DG has never mentioned seeing DP as far as I know. I don't know for sure if DP has ever tried to contact me. I do know that one of his buddies did though. Yes... I stated that there is drug and revenge component, but... it's more personal than that. I can't say too much about it, but... I'll say this (since I did mention it on the podcast)... The revenge could stem from the negative outcome of a drug (fentanyl). Sorry.. can't say more.

    What do I think of JBC as a suspect? LE said the community will be shocked when BG is arrested. Would anybody be shocked if it was that guy?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Tiffany- I think I got them all. Whew!

    @Tiffany-

    I think I got them all. Whew!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Nic (UK)- Good questions. 1- Yes. Cheyenne, Cheryl, and DP all know each other. 2- I agree that if they were cheating, they wouldn't want to arrive together. And yes... that would add two more cars . DP said "they" arrived at the Mears lot at 3:00. When Michelle Wise drove by at 3:00 she saw 2 cars. But... I agree that (according to these "witnesses") more cars should have been there. 3- Agreed. I also find it very curious that Cheyenne and Cheryl were not. Lastly.. I couldn't agree more. This person needs to be accountable for his actions, and the girls and their families need justice.

    @Nic (UK)-

    Good questions.

    1- Yes. Cheyenne, Cheryl, and DP all know each other.
    2- I agree that if they were cheating, they wouldn't want to arrive together. And yes... that would add two more cars . DP said "they" arrived at the Mears lot at 3:00. When Michelle Wise drove by at 3:00 she saw 2 cars. But... I agree that (according to these "witnesses") more cars should have been there.

    3- Agreed. I also find it very curious that Cheyenne and Cheryl were not.

    Lastly.. I couldn't agree more. This person needs to be accountable for his actions, and the girls and their families need justice.

  • Sherrie
    Sherrie Canada
    Wow what a rabbit hole this is turning out to be! I came across a YouTube video last night that was made 3 years ago. It discusses DP, has his voice recording on it and also a correspondence with the police. Police are recorded as saying that he is known to police, that he has mental health issues as well as possible drug problems. It suggests that the police took a DNA swab from him, and he even goes in to try to explain why his DNA might be at the scene of the crime and how that doesn’t mean he is guilty of the double murder. He goes in to detail how he killed some Jennifer girl (who turns out to not be dead) the guy lies a lot.

    Wow what a rabbit hole this is turning out to be! I came across a YouTube video last night that was made 3 years ago. It discusses DP, has his voice recording on it and also a correspondence with the police. Police are recorded as saying that he is known to police, that he has mental health issues as well as possible drug problems. It suggests that the police took a DNA swab from him, and he even goes in to try to explain why his DNA might be at the scene of the crime and how that doesn’t mean he is guilty of the double murder. He goes in to detail how he killed some Jennifer girl (who turns out to not be dead) the guy lies a lot.

  • Lucia
    Lucia Netherlands
    Thanks to Lemon (UK) and Scarlet Begoinas for summarising so well all my concerns and issues with the episode. I found it as well not aligned with the usual quality and on somewhat on morally sketchy ground when it comes to the victims, their families, and to the POI discussed in the episode. I second Scarlet's appeal to use some more vetting/better judgement - as you did in the past - when inviting guests, and I would like to add to this a plea to remove from the blog the name of the 'suspect'; many other instances in the past - think the Boston Marathon bombing for one - have shown us how dangerous is to name names so publicly and for everyone's consumption.

    Thanks to Lemon (UK) and Scarlet Begoinas for summarising so well all my concerns and issues with the episode. I found it as well not aligned with the usual quality and on somewhat on morally sketchy ground when it comes to the victims, their families, and to the POI discussed in the episode. I second Scarlet's appeal to use some more vetting/better judgement - as you did in the past - when inviting guests, and I would like to add to this a plea to remove from the blog the name of the 'suspect'; many other instances in the past - think the Boston Marathon bombing for one - have shown us how dangerous is to name names so publicly and for everyone's consumption.

  • Jen
    Jen PA
    Lemon/Scarlet- I couldn’t agree more. This isn’t about disliking an episode, it’s about the ethical issues involved in implicating someone in a heinous double murder, based purely on the speculations of an armchair detective, and acting like that’s nothing. Were we supposed to be impressed that Skip has been researching this case for a year? Here’s your gold star. Nic- Skip literally posted the guy’s full name, age, and location six comments before your comment saying that you WOULDN’T post that information. I guess he didn’t get the memo. Never mind that you admit that you had already given specific enough information about him that he could be found online. So are we encouraging doxxing now? You need to address this issue, although the cat is out of the bag now, so it’d be too little, too late. I’ve listened to this podcast for years. Again: This is not about disliking an episode or disagreeing about a theory. This is about publicly releasing identifying information about someone who hasn’t been named as a suspect by law enforcement, based on speculation from someone who is not qualified to publicly name suspects. It is unethical and frankly, disgusting. If I hadn’t previously loved the podcast so much I probably wouldn’t be so shocked and disappointed. I cannot continue to support any podcast that would do so.

    Lemon/Scarlet- I couldn’t agree more. This isn’t about disliking an episode, it’s about the ethical issues involved in implicating someone in a heinous double murder, based purely on the speculations of an armchair detective, and acting like that’s nothing. Were we supposed to be impressed that Skip has been researching this case for a year? Here’s your gold star.

    Nic- Skip literally posted the guy’s full name, age, and location six comments before your comment saying that you WOULDN’T post that information. I guess he didn’t get the memo. Never mind that you admit that you had already given specific enough information about him that he could be found online. So are we encouraging doxxing now? You need to address this issue, although the cat is out of the bag now, so it’d be too little, too late.

    I’ve listened to this podcast for years. Again: This is not about disliking an episode or disagreeing about a theory. This is about publicly releasing identifying information about someone who hasn’t been named as a suspect by law enforcement, based on speculation from someone who is not qualified to publicly name suspects. It is unethical and frankly, disgusting. If I hadn’t previously loved the podcast so much I probably wouldn’t be so shocked and disappointed. I cannot continue to support any podcast that would do so.

  • Jenna
    Jenna UK
    Hi guys, Long time listener here who's never felt the need to comment before. On listening to the last episodes, I was left somewhat speechless and disappointed. These episodes were extremely irresponsible for a podcast with your level of fanbase to post. These are for three main reasons: At no point was it made clear that the interviewee had zero professional credentials; this should have been made clear from the very start. Allowing the 'suspects' name to be released on your platform (while not named in the audio, he is named in this thread) is hugely irresponsible. Releasing someone's details when they have not even been named by LE as a POI is how witch hunts start and puts a potentially innocent person at risk. If anything happens to him as a result of this, the blame lies partly on yourselves. Finally, arguing with the literal family of one of the victums on twitter is in extremely bad taste. I'm not sure how your thoughts and condolences can be with the victim's family while at the same time you can directly and knowingly defy their wishes. Very disappointed with this.

    Hi guys,

    Long time listener here who's never felt the need to comment before. On listening to the last episodes, I was left somewhat speechless and disappointed.

    These episodes were extremely irresponsible for a podcast with your level of fanbase to post. These are for three main reasons:

    At no point was it made clear that the interviewee had zero professional credentials; this should have been made clear from the very start.

    Allowing the 'suspects' name to be released on your platform (while not named in the audio, he is named in this thread) is hugely irresponsible. Releasing someone's details when they have not even been named by LE as a POI is how witch hunts start and puts a potentially innocent person at risk. If anything happens to him as a result of this, the blame lies partly on yourselves.

    Finally, arguing with the literal family of one of the victums on twitter is in extremely bad taste. I'm not sure how your thoughts and condolences can be with the victim's family while at the same time you can directly and knowingly defy their wishes.

    Very disappointed with this.

  • Pringle
    Pringle CA
    Allowing your guest to dox your latest "suspect" in these very comments is gross. Catering to armchair detectives is the lowest form of True Crime content, glad you showed the podcast's true colors

    Allowing your guest to dox your latest "suspect" in these very comments is gross. Catering to armchair detectives is the lowest form of True Crime content, glad you showed the podcast's true colors

  • Lawyer Lauren
    Lawyer Lauren Boston
    Thanks Skip (and nic and the captain of course)! I don’t see a Miranda issues here. If BG did talk to police already in a non-custodial interview in which he was not yet deemed a suspect or POI, his statements to police from that interview are still admissible. And in a case like this there’s also some likelihood that police gave Miranda waivers to everyone they interviewed in case there’s ever any confusion/claim about the interview being a custodial interrogation.

    Thanks Skip (and nic and the captain of course)!

    I don’t see a Miranda issues here. If BG did talk to police already in a non-custodial interview in which he was not yet deemed a suspect or POI, his statements to police from that interview are still admissible. And in a case like this there’s also some likelihood that police gave Miranda waivers to everyone they interviewed in case there’s ever any confusion/claim about the interview being a custodial interrogation.

  • Cathy
    Cathy Boston
    Great episodes guys! And I wholeheartedly endorse Alligator Candy for recommended reading. Fantastic, quick read for TCG enthusiasts. @skip, after doing some googling I came across another POI who was at the scene that day and also in the search party that found the girls. He is older and seems to fit the pieces better than DP, IMO. Are you aware of this person and any thoughts on him? He has a connection to one of the girls' family and a possible link to the double Evansdale murders. His car was also confirmed to be in the area that day. Thanks!

    Great episodes guys! And I wholeheartedly endorse Alligator Candy for recommended reading. Fantastic, quick read for TCG enthusiasts.

    @skip, after doing some googling I came across another POI who was at the scene that day and also in the search party that found the girls. He is older and seems to fit the pieces better than DP, IMO. Are you aware of this person and any thoughts on him? He has a connection to one of the girls' family and a possible link to the double Evansdale murders. His car was also confirmed to be in the area that day. Thanks!

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Sherrie - I believe that is a different D.P. @Better Call Saul - we are mature - over 600 episodes of TCG and OTR - been in the game a long time. Saw, Saw, Saw - we're from Ohio ;-) Cheers Nic

    @ Sherrie - I believe that is a different D.P.

    @Better Call Saul - we are mature - over 600 episodes of TCG and OTR - been in the game a long time. Saw, Saw, Saw - we're from Ohio ;-)

    Cheers Nic

  • John - Georgia Ok as a long time listener to TCG I’m going to come to their defense here a bit… I mean claims of doxing? Really? There’s a reason LE switched gears here and it’s awfully convenient that the person in question basically looks exactly like the *original* drawing released and fits other aspects including location, time & is a local person. Why would anyone not discuss the possibility?? One interesting thing that I remember hearing in the summation of theories on “ down the Hill” that I think is likely to have occurred here is that BG may have passed the girls ( coming from direction of where they were headed) and turned around after passing them , causing Libby to be alerted and start recording. It makes sense and explains how it was BG was able to “catch up” to them. Now maybe that’s all wrong but it makes sense. The more I think about it the entire “argument “ story sounds like cover. Flannel guy might have heard it like an argument sure ( he wouldn’t have known what he heard) but there’s no possibility in my mind this person was arguing at that time and NOT hearing anything from BF and the girls at the same time… especially given the admitted location & time of this “argument “… it’s impossible to me. So I feel the argument was actually yelling, pleading etc from the murder itself. Just an opinion but we are discussing a quiet park…

    John - Georgia

    Ok as a long time listener to TCG I’m going to come to their defense here a bit… I mean claims of doxing? Really? There’s a reason LE switched gears here and it’s awfully convenient that the person in question basically looks exactly like the *original* drawing released and fits other aspects including location, time & is a local person. Why would anyone not discuss the possibility??

    One interesting thing that I remember hearing in the summation of theories on “ down the Hill” that I think is likely to have occurred here is that BG may have passed the girls ( coming from direction of where they were headed) and turned around after passing them , causing Libby to be alerted and start recording. It makes sense and explains how it was BG was able to “catch up” to them. Now maybe that’s all wrong but it makes sense.

    The more I think about it the entire “argument “ story sounds like cover. Flannel guy might have heard it like an argument sure ( he wouldn’t have known what he heard) but there’s no possibility in my mind this person was arguing at that time and NOT hearing anything from BF and the girls at the same time… especially given the admitted location & time of this “argument “… it’s impossible to me. So I feel the argument was actually yelling, pleading etc from the murder itself. Just an opinion but we are discussing a quiet park…

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Kelly (FL) I believe that DP was seen walking between Hwy 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Hwy toward the CPS building.

    @Kelly (FL)

    I believe that DP was seen walking between Hwy 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Hwy toward the CPS building.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Eric (Buffalo NY)- Yes. Cheyenne and DP are friends (or at least were at the time). I agree that the "heterosexual couple" comment is strange. She also said " I saw a friend, who.... I didn't know was going to be there". Sometimes... 'over explaining' can be a sign that someone isn't being truthful.

    @Eric (Buffalo NY)-

    Yes. Cheyenne and DP are friends (or at least were at the time). I agree that the "heterosexual couple" comment is strange. She also said " I saw a friend, who.... I didn't know was going to be there". Sometimes... 'over explaining' can be a sign that someone isn't being truthful.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Phallguy (PA)- Good observation. I believe by the time the witness saw BG, he had likely removed the hat (if there indeed is one in the photo/video). The hat could have been placed in his back pocket or in a carry bag. Early on. LE asked if anyone saw an individual walking near the Hoosier Heartland Hwy with a duffel bag. The CPS building sits along that road.

    Phallguy (PA)-

    Good observation. I believe by the time the witness saw BG, he had likely removed the hat (if there indeed is one in the photo/video). The hat could have been placed in his back pocket or in a carry bag. Early on. LE asked if anyone saw an individual walking near the Hoosier Heartland Hwy with a duffel bag. The CPS building sits along that road.

  • Joe
    Joe NY
    I have listen to ask three if these episodes like 4 times now. I have a question bout how they crossed Deer Creek. Did they get into water and cross or was the bridge use to cross over the water?

    I have listen to ask three if these episodes like 4 times now. I have a question bout how they crossed Deer Creek. Did they get into water and cross or was the bridge use to cross over the water?

  • Adriel
    Adriel Glenwood, IA
    @Cathy I know who you mean and agree he's a good suspect. Like DP he places himself under the bridge and his story doesn't add up. And his truck was parked right by the murder site. And he's the right height and body type. And if you put his face next to the man in the video (not the sketch) it's the same face. I'd love for him to be cleared somehow but I don't think he can be.

    @Cathy I know who you mean and agree he's a good suspect. Like DP he places himself under the bridge and his story doesn't add up. And his truck was parked right by the murder site. And he's the right height and body type. And if you put his face next to the man in the video (not the sketch) it's the same face. I'd love for him to be cleared somehow but I don't think he can be.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Jib (Cut Thereof)- Gonna have to disagree with you here. As a matter of fact, IMO.... if you apply Occam'sRazor, DP is the most likely POI. He was there that day. You don't even have to attach the most important variable to him. He did it himself. The basic nuts and bolts of the theory are actually quite simple. It's the peripheral stuff that makes it complex. In regards to your comments about LE, let me say this. When a multi task force is involved like it was in this case, the coordination has to be handled very precisely. One group could be handling witness statements, another chasing down leads, another corroborating alibis. It's really not that hard for something to fall through the cracks. That's why.... IMO it wasn't until the GBI came in, as a more self-contained unit, to start seeing the inconsistencies and discrepancies of certain individuals. Finally... if your theory is correct, why did they release a new sketch in 2019 with Carter saying, "We are just beginning. We are just now beginning"? And... follow that up with....."When we decided to release the 2nd sketch I don't believe the individual knew we were going to do that. I think he was probably there and/or watching, simply because he thought we were on the wrong path." Why would LE believe that BG thought they were on the wrong path? Perhaps because he lead them down that path? Occam's Razor!

    Jib (Cut Thereof)-

    Gonna have to disagree with you here. As a matter of fact, IMO.... if you apply Occam'sRazor, DP is the most likely POI. He was there that day. You don't even have to attach the most important variable to him. He did it himself. The basic nuts and bolts of the theory are actually quite simple. It's the peripheral stuff that makes it complex.

    In regards to your comments about LE, let me say this. When a multi task force is involved like it was in this case, the coordination has to be handled very precisely. One group could be handling witness statements, another chasing down leads, another corroborating alibis. It's really not that hard for something to fall through the cracks. That's why.... IMO it wasn't until the GBI came in, as a more self-contained unit, to start seeing the inconsistencies and discrepancies of certain individuals.

    Finally... if your theory is correct, why did they release a new sketch in 2019 with Carter saying, "We are just beginning. We are just now beginning"? And... follow that up with....."When we decided to release the 2nd sketch I don't believe the individual knew we were going to do that. I think he was probably there and/or watching, simply because he thought we were on the wrong path."

    Why would LE believe that BG thought they were on the wrong path? Perhaps because he lead them down that path? Occam's Razor!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Angela (Ohio)- I like your comments. Very well thought out. 1) I understand all your points. But... from purely a analytical point of view, the odds of anyone being in an area that remote looking to murder someone on a Monday afternoon are astronomically low. Maybe they talked to someone and told them they would be there if they could get a ride. I do agree that he was more aware of them than they were of him. 2) I agree with you (for the most part) about his path in. I don't have a real opinion on whether the entered the bridge from the north or the south, but I do believe he came from the area along the creek. I don't believe BG was seen on the trails. I do agree with your assessment about the girls being part of "arguing couple" but...if they took off, why would they go across the creek? Running in water is difficult. Wouldn't they run toward the private drive that you mentioned? 3) Yes. I would imagine his witness interviews were taped. I don't believe they have enough to compare it if they only have what has been released. Some consider that junk science anyway. Not anything that would help with a conviction.

    Angela (Ohio)-

    I like your comments. Very well thought out.

    1) I understand all your points. But... from purely a analytical point of view, the odds of anyone being in an area that remote looking to murder someone on a Monday afternoon are astronomically low. Maybe they talked to someone and told them they would be there if they could get a ride. I do agree that he was more aware of them than they were of him.

    2) I agree with you (for the most part) about his path in. I don't have a real opinion on whether the entered the bridge from the north or the south, but I do believe he came from the area along the creek. I don't believe BG was seen on the trails. I do agree with your assessment about the girls being part of "arguing couple" but...if they took off, why would they go across the creek? Running in water is difficult. Wouldn't they run toward the private drive that you mentioned?

    3) Yes. I would imagine his witness interviews were taped. I don't believe they have enough to compare it if they only have what has been released. Some consider that junk science anyway. Not anything that would help with a conviction.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Cathy (Boston)- I'm familiar with that POI. Definitely suspicious. But... not the correct age to be BG IMO.

    Cathy (Boston)-

    I'm familiar with that POI. Definitely suspicious. But... not the correct age to be BG IMO.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    All- I want to apologize to anyone who was offended by seeing the POI's name in this thread. That's on me. I put it out there and shouldn't have. As for my credentials... I asked The Captain and Nic for the anonymity. I would hope that everyone will focus on the theory instead of the theory provider. The theory is either plausible or it is not. If you think it's plausible, consider it. If you think it's not, disregard it. Thank you!

    All-

    I want to apologize to anyone who was offended by seeing the POI's name in this thread. That's on me. I put it out there and shouldn't have.

    As for my credentials... I asked The Captain and Nic for the anonymity. I would hope that everyone will focus on the theory instead of the theory provider.

    The theory is either plausible or it is not. If you think it's plausible, consider it. If you think it's not, disregard it.

    Thank you!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Joe (NY)- It is definitely believed that the girls crossed the creek. Why and how are the unknowns. LE has said that none of the re-enactments are correct. One of the ways I try and create an hypothesis is to take all the questions there are regarding the abduction and answer them with the known facts, to come to a conclusion.

    Joe (NY)-

    It is definitely believed that the girls crossed the creek. Why and how are the unknowns. LE has said that none of the re-enactments are correct.

    One of the ways I try and create an hypothesis is to take all the questions there are regarding the abduction and answer them with the known facts, to come to a conclusion.

  • Cathy
    Cathy Boston
    @skip @adriel The other POI is older, yes, but checks many of the boxes. There is a 45 page blog on him online with many compelling reasons to suspect him. Also there is a theory that one of the girls was catfished with a photo of the younger man while an older man was the one that actually did the killing. I also hope it's not true with his connection to the family but it is very suspicious. Nic/Capt have you looked into this guy?

    @skip @adriel
    The other POI is older, yes, but checks many of the boxes. There is a 45 page blog on him online with many compelling reasons to suspect him. Also there is a theory that one of the girls was catfished with a photo of the younger man while an older man was the one that actually did the killing. I also hope it's not true with his connection to the family but it is very suspicious. Nic/Capt have you looked into this guy?

  • El
    El Parts Unknown
    As someone who had an iPhone 6, I cannot tell you how many times I had to do a factory reset because it stopped working. I would miss calls, it wouldn’t receive texts, it would freeze up, and stuff would just stop working sometimes. Despite this, I was still able to plug it into my computer and download all of my pictures and videos. If she wasn’t using the cloud she very easily could have just uploaded them to her computer. If she wasn’t uploading them to her computer she might have already shared the ones she wanted on social media, and then didn’t consider resetting it and the pictures being deleted off her phone losing them. Texts, pictures, videos, all that stuff can be backed up easily. I don’t find it suspicious at all that a kid with a phone that isn’t working would ask for a reset. It seems irresponsible to make an assumption that she was attempting to hide her conversations with someone by resetting the phone with no proof. Especially if she is texting with that person, all the logs of texted numbers would be on the phone bill, and if it was through an app like Facebook messenger or snap chat, those logs aren’t stored on the phone regardless. Also, I’m regards to Cheyenne, just because she went out with the purpose to take pictures, doesn’t mean she did. I’ve gone out to take pictures with my friends, got distracted, or the lights been bad, or we got to chatting and just didn’t take nearly as many as we had anticipated. So saying she’s lying because she only uploaded one picture seems like putting a lot of blame on her for not acting the way you think she should be. If we are going to throw out speculation and accusation, I would feel more comfortable if it was based in actual evidence, and not based on how we think someone should act, or we think we know how someone should react to a given situation where we have no context and no evidence.

    As someone who had an iPhone 6, I cannot tell you how many times I had to do a factory reset because it stopped working. I would miss calls, it wouldn’t receive texts, it would freeze up, and stuff would just stop working sometimes. Despite this, I was still able to plug it into my computer and download all of my pictures and videos. If she wasn’t using the cloud she very easily could have just uploaded them to her computer. If she wasn’t uploading them to her computer she might have already shared the ones she wanted on social media, and then didn’t consider resetting it and the pictures being deleted off her phone losing them. Texts, pictures, videos, all that stuff can be backed up easily. I don’t find it suspicious at all that a kid with a phone that isn’t working would ask for a reset. It seems irresponsible to make an assumption that she was attempting to hide her conversations with someone by resetting the phone with no proof. Especially if she is texting with that person, all the logs of texted numbers would be on the phone bill, and if it was through an app like Facebook messenger or snap chat, those logs aren’t stored on the phone regardless.

    Also, I’m regards to Cheyenne, just because she went out with the purpose to take pictures, doesn’t mean she did. I’ve gone out to take pictures with my friends, got distracted, or the lights been bad, or we got to chatting and just didn’t take nearly as many as we had anticipated. So saying she’s lying because she only uploaded one picture seems like putting a lot of blame on her for not acting the way you think she should be.

    If we are going to throw out speculation and accusation, I would feel more comfortable if it was based in actual evidence, and not based on how we think someone should act, or we think we know how someone should react to a given situation where we have no context and no evidence.

  • Amber
    Amber OK
    Skip You posted: “I believe that DP was seen walking between Hwy 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Hwy toward the CPS building.” DP was seen, or a man you believe to have been DP was seen?

    Skip

    You posted: “I believe that DP was seen walking between Hwy 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Hwy toward the CPS building.”

    DP was seen, or a man you believe to have been DP was seen?

  • John- Georgia One other thing I’ve been thinking about. The “guys… down the hill” recording. I think many immediately jump to the theory it “must be an older guy” based on what they are hearing. I think there’s a problem in doing that though because it took from what I understand a lot of filtering etc etc to get to what we have heard. I know as a musician what you hear right in front of you sounds very different than a recording even with great microphones in a studio… let alone a cell phone after it’s gone through tons of processing. So I’d say… not so fast on determining its “an old guy” based on that recording.

    John- Georgia

    One other thing I’ve been thinking about. The “guys… down the hill” recording. I think many immediately jump to the theory it “must be an older guy” based on what they are hearing. I think there’s a problem in doing that though because it took from what I understand a lot of filtering etc etc to get to what we have heard. I know as a musician what you hear right in front of you sounds very different than a recording even with great microphones in a studio… let alone a cell phone after it’s gone through tons of processing. So I’d say… not so fast on determining its “an old guy” based on that recording.

  • Seth
    Seth NC
    I have to echo a few of the comments here that are extremely disappointed you chose to publish these episodes. I'm disappointed to the extent that I'm not sure I can continue listening to the show in the same frame. I always thought you guys were different from many true crime pods in that you did hard research and would only report theories if it wasn't going to be potentially VERY damaging to a potentially innocent person's life. You spent three episodes meandering over a redditors theory without ever giving the listener a reason to put any weight behind this dudes idea. And the worst part is it was three episodes of accusing someone of a horrific murder on very flimsy "evidence" at best. It's disappointing given your fairly frequent criticisms when law enforcement railroads someone and makes the evidence fit their narrative. And these episodes were hypocritical in that regard and I honestly think they should be taken down. Not because the quality was subpar for their standards (which it definitely was, it was a confusing interview with someone that they never provided any context to), but because accusing someone of that crime with basically no evidence, or extremely flimsy evidence, is extremely problematic. If DP is actually innocent, you are genuinely ruining his life and reputation. You can claim that you didn't name the person, but I came to this blog post and Skip literally names them in full...I mean, this is extremely not cool and I really thought you folks were better than this.

    I have to echo a few of the comments here that are extremely disappointed you chose to publish these episodes. I'm disappointed to the extent that I'm not sure I can continue listening to the show in the same frame. I always thought you guys were different from many true crime pods in that you did hard research and would only report theories if it wasn't going to be potentially VERY damaging to a potentially innocent person's life.

    You spent three episodes meandering over a redditors theory without ever giving the listener a reason to put any weight behind this dudes idea. And the worst part is it was three episodes of accusing someone of a horrific murder on very flimsy "evidence" at best.

    It's disappointing given your fairly frequent criticisms when law enforcement railroads someone and makes the evidence fit their narrative. And these episodes were hypocritical in that regard and I honestly think they should be taken down. Not because the quality was subpar for their standards (which it definitely was, it was a confusing interview with someone that they never provided any context to), but because accusing someone of that crime with basically no evidence, or extremely flimsy evidence, is extremely problematic. If DP is actually innocent, you are genuinely ruining his life and reputation.

    You can claim that you didn't name the person, but I came to this blog post and Skip literally names them in full...I mean, this is extremely not cool and I really thought you folks were better than this.

  • Tiffany
    Tiffany Parts Unknown
    @Skip Thank you for answering all of my questions! So based on the drug and revenge component being a possible motive, I have more questions. Does DG know DP? Or vice versa? Does Cheyenne or Cheryl know DG? Could the drug deal that Cheyenne said she witnessed that day be part of how this all ties together? I think I can read between the lines about the revenge and personal components of this. Is there any truth to a leak within LE and the Prosecutors Office that has been feeding DP information and basically stonewalling the investigation. Lastly, we know DP put himself there at the scene of the crime, makes sense to me. What does not make sense, and maybe I missed it, but how did he know the girls were going to be there that day? The tight window of time has me feeling something is off. If 2:50 was the time BG made contact with A&L, 3pm-FSG heard "arguing" 3:15 was the time DG spoke with FSG- and not to mention 3pm is the time Cheyenne thought she saw a drug deal go down with DG- how could this gruesome crime happen without anyone hearing anything? Did I miss something? Thank you so much! I think I have listened to each episode at least 6 times now!!

    @Skip
    Thank you for answering all of my questions! So based on the drug and revenge component being a possible motive, I have more questions. Does DG know DP? Or vice versa? Does Cheyenne or Cheryl know DG? Could the drug deal that Cheyenne said she witnessed that day be part of how this all ties together? I think I can read between the lines about the revenge and personal components of this. Is there any truth to a leak within LE and the Prosecutors Office that has been feeding DP information and basically stonewalling the investigation. Lastly, we know DP put himself there at the scene of the crime, makes sense to me. What does not make sense, and maybe I missed it, but how did he know the girls were going to be there that day? The tight window of time has me feeling something is off.
    If 2:50 was the time BG made contact with A&L,
    3pm-FSG heard "arguing"
    3:15 was the time DG spoke with FSG- and not to mention 3pm is the time Cheyenne thought she saw a drug deal go down with DG- how could this gruesome crime happen without anyone hearing anything? Did I miss something?
    Thank you so much! I think I have listened to each episode at least 6 times now!!

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ El - I agree 100% my friend. @ Seth - noted and I certainly recognize and respect your feedback. I'm going to have to review these posts again. D.P. was not to be named here. Thank you both and everyone else for posting - Cheers Nic

    @ El - I agree 100% my friend.

    @ Seth - noted and I certainly recognize and respect your feedback. I'm going to have to review these posts again. D.P. was not to be named here.

    Thank you both and everyone else for posting - Cheers Nic

  • Teresa
    Teresa OKC
    Great job! I was shocked at the first listen, then went back and savored every word. Thank you all for putting the pieces together!! I'm a fan and believe that TCG is the pinnacle of true crime podcasts. I just want to say to any of you who disagree with the points presented in these episodes, grow the hell up and stop being mean! What ever made you think you have the right to tear down people the way you do?Intelligent people have discourse without personal remarks. Just make your point and stick to the subject. Do you feel like this is the way mature, people with any class at all relate to one another or offer opinions? Have some grace for others and it WILL come back around. Also, I'm just actually blown away by this info! THANKS GUYS!!!!!

    Great job! I was shocked at the first listen, then went back and savored every word. Thank you all for putting the pieces together!! I'm a fan and believe that TCG is the pinnacle of true crime podcasts. I just want to say to any of you who disagree with the points presented in these episodes, grow the hell up and stop being mean! What ever made you think you have the right to tear down people the way you do?Intelligent people have discourse without personal remarks. Just make your point and stick to the subject. Do you feel like this is the way mature, people with any class at all relate to one another or offer opinions? Have some grace for others and it WILL come back around.
    Also, I'm just actually blown away by this info! THANKS GUYS!!!!!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Amber- I believe that is where the witness of the 2nd sketch saw who I believe to be DP.

    @Amber-

    I believe that is where the witness of the 2nd sketch saw who I believe to be DP.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    EL- The accusations are based on evidence. Cheyenne put it on SM for the world to see. She originally claimed she got there at 3:50. She later changed that to 2:50. She 'remembered' that because she got a robo call. She also originally said that she saw "A man" sitting in his car as she was leaving at 4:00. She later changed that to seeing "two people" in the car doing what "looked like a dope deal". Becky Patty has said that no one was with DG when he got there. BP called Tara at 4:00 and Tara got there at 4:10. DG got in the car with her. So... how did Cheyenne see two people doing a drug deal before she left? Look... if you want to pass this off as innocent misremembering, go ahead. Also... if you think that I am the only one who thinks her story doesn't add up, then you haven't been paying attention.

    EL-

    The accusations are based on evidence. Cheyenne put it on SM for the world to see. She originally claimed she got there at 3:50. She later changed that to 2:50. She 'remembered' that because she got a robo call. She also originally said that she saw "A man" sitting in his car as she was leaving at 4:00. She later changed that to seeing "two people" in the car doing what "looked like a dope deal". Becky Patty has said that no one was with DG when he got there. BP called Tara at 4:00 and Tara got there at 4:10. DG got in the car with her. So... how did Cheyenne see two people doing a drug deal before she left?

    Look... if you want to pass this off as innocent misremembering, go ahead. Also... if you think that I am the only one who thinks her story doesn't add up, then you haven't been paying attention.

  • Teresa
    Teresa OKC
    Hey Skip, In the press conference, what did "The Shack" movie have to do with anything?

    Hey Skip,
    In the press conference, what did "The Shack" movie have to do with anything?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Tiffany (Parts Unknown)- - Yes. From what I gathered, DP and DG know each other. I believe the families all know each other. - Yes. Cheyenne and Cheryl both know DG. As a matter of fact, DG and Jack Engles (who has a child with Cheryl) were housed together at the Westville Level One Prison facility. Jack's brother Chase was married to Cheyenne. - I don't have any evidence that there was a "leak". I think it's more likely that someone could have fed him information unknowingly. - I believe BG made contact with A & L before 2:50 (more like 2:30). Also.. 4:00 is when Cheyenne said she saw the "dope deal". Cheyenne's photo puts here on the bridge around 3:00. Why didn't she hear anything? I can't answer that. -"How could this gruesome crime happen without anyone hearing anything?" Maybe they did. FSG heard an "arguing couple" under the bridge".

    Tiffany (Parts Unknown)-

    - Yes. From what I gathered, DP and DG know each other. I believe the families all know each other.

    - Yes. Cheyenne and Cheryl both know DG. As a matter of fact, DG and Jack Engles (who has a child with Cheryl) were housed together at the Westville Level One Prison facility. Jack's brother Chase was married to Cheyenne.

    - I don't have any evidence that there was a "leak". I think it's more likely that someone could have fed him information unknowingly.

    - I believe BG made contact with A & L before 2:50 (more like 2:30). Also.. 4:00 is when Cheyenne said she saw the "dope deal". Cheyenne's photo puts here on the bridge around 3:00. Why didn't she hear anything? I can't answer that.

    -"How could this gruesome crime happen without anyone hearing anything?" Maybe they did. FSG heard an "arguing couple" under the bridge".

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @John (Georgia)- All good points.

    @John (Georgia)-

    All good points.

  • Joseph
    Joseph Fishers, IN
    Does LE or anyone else have recorded audio other than what Libby recorded. Does DP voice and BG voice sound similar?

    Does LE or anyone else have recorded audio other than what Libby recorded. Does DP voice and BG voice sound similar?

  • Valerie
    Valerie NC
    I just have a question and a few thoughts and not sure if these were mentioned even though I listened twice. 1. When is DP seen? Was it after the crime was committed or beforehand? What was he wearing at that time? If he was seen beforehand, was he dressed like BG? If after, did he change because I’m assuming he’d be soaking wet from walking across the stream/river and possibly be covered in blood. Was there time for the whole crime to go down and be staged like they have suggested and him change clothes to then be spotted around the bridge afterwards? 2. It definitely strikes me as odd that there were definitely people around the bridge right when the murders must have been taking place and that no one heard them screaming for help. Makes me think he had his hands on one of the girls and possibly a knife or gun pointed on them and told them both if either of you makes a noise then she dies etc. And maybe once he had them to the place he killed them at, he had covered their mouths with tape? Reports suggest people were on that bridge right around the time of the murders and don’t hear anything and during the winter with no foliage, I would thought girls screaming for their lives would have been heard unless they had been taped shut. Just thinking out loud here.

    I just have a question and a few thoughts and not sure if these were mentioned even though I listened twice.
    1. When is DP seen? Was it after the crime was committed or beforehand? What was he wearing at that time? If he was seen beforehand, was he dressed like BG? If after, did he change because I’m assuming he’d be soaking wet from walking across the stream/river and possibly be covered in blood. Was there time for the whole crime to go down and be staged like they have suggested and him change clothes to then be spotted around the bridge afterwards?

    2. It definitely strikes me as odd that there were definitely people around the bridge right when the murders must have been taking place and that no one heard them screaming for help. Makes me think he had his hands on one of the girls and possibly a knife or gun pointed on them and told them both if either of you makes a noise then she dies etc. And maybe once he had them to the place he killed them at, he had covered their mouths with tape? Reports suggest people were on that bridge right around the time of the murders and don’t hear anything and during the winter with no foliage, I would thought girls screaming for their lives would have been heard unless they had been taped shut. Just thinking out loud here.

  • Andy
    Andy Indianapolis
    Thank you for continuing to follow this fascinating case. Skip, are you concerned about Cheyenne suing you for defamation, now that you have gone on a worldwide podcast and accused her of lying to the police to provide a false alibi for a killer? Since we know that DP has at least 2 alibi witnesses...Cheyenne and the unnamed woman that he was with (who as Skip has said in the comments has clearly talked to LE), it seems that the only evidence against DP is that he has inserted himself into the case. Seems like there is just as much evidence that Skip is BG.

    Thank you for continuing to follow this fascinating case. Skip, are you concerned about Cheyenne suing you for defamation, now that you have gone on a worldwide podcast and accused her of lying to the police to provide a false alibi for a killer? Since we know that DP has at least 2 alibi witnesses...Cheyenne and the unnamed woman that he was with (who as Skip has said in the comments has clearly talked to LE), it seems that the only evidence against DP is that he has inserted himself into the case. Seems like there is just as much evidence that Skip is BG.

  • Scott
    Scott NC
    If Libby knew DP and the two were connected on Facebook, wouldn’t there be some indication of their familiarity from the audio recording? It seems to me this person has to be a complete stranger, otherwise they would have been named during the video recording, or their relationship/familiarity would have been alluded to

    If Libby knew DP and the two were connected on Facebook, wouldn’t there be some indication of their familiarity from the audio recording? It seems to me this person has to be a complete stranger, otherwise they would have been named during the video recording, or their relationship/familiarity would have been alluded to

  • Seth
    Seth NC
    Appreciate the response, Nic. And I will say you personally seemed to be making some effort to make clear it was speculation. However, given how obvious you made it that you didn't want the person to be named, I think it speaks volumes about the reliability and quality of your guest that he came to your blog shortly after the episode and directly named the person, and I hope that makes you re-consider whether or not it was worth giving him this platform.

    Appreciate the response, Nic. And I will say you personally seemed to be making some effort to make clear it was speculation. However, given how obvious you made it that you didn't want the person to be named, I think it speaks volumes about the reliability and quality of your guest that he came to your blog shortly after the episode and directly named the person, and I hope that makes you re-consider whether or not it was worth giving him this platform.

  • Meredith
    Meredith Raleigh
    So why are you only allowing comments agreeing with you? Not going to address the fact the Snapchat theory you have is invalid due to It not being an available feature until later that year?

    So why are you only allowing comments agreeing with you? Not going to address the fact the Snapchat theory you have is invalid due to
    It not being an available feature until later that year?

  • Mike
    Mike Maryland
    Congratulations. These episodes managed to be both irresponsible and incoherent at the same time. Maybe some tiny group of fanatical followers of this case had any idea what you were talking about. What little I could understand appeared to basically accuse someone with a thin fig leaf of anonymity that you knew many would see through based on a goofy conspiracy theory by a person who seems to have no credentials whatsoever. At least if he does you didn't share that. This kind of naked speculation does more harm than good and only serves to further confuse an already tangled and tragic case. I tuned in, as someone who doesn't follow this case every day but does have an interest, to see if there was any reliable update on whether the man charged in an abduction of a 9-year-old in another Indiana town recently, James Brian Chadwell Jr., had been cleared or was still under suspicion. I got so lost in the weeds of this podcast I finally gave up trying to determine if he is your "DP" or if you all believe Chadwell had nothing to do with it. I don't think it would matter to me now, because I don't trust your judgment to sift through things anyway.

    Congratulations. These episodes managed to be both irresponsible and incoherent at the same time. Maybe some tiny group of fanatical followers of this case had any idea what you were talking about. What little I could understand appeared to basically accuse someone with a thin fig leaf of anonymity that you knew many would see through based on a goofy conspiracy theory by a person who seems to have no credentials whatsoever. At least if he does you didn't share that.

    This kind of naked speculation does more harm than good and only serves to further confuse an already tangled and tragic case.
    I tuned in, as someone who doesn't follow this case every day but does have an interest, to see if there was any reliable update on whether the man charged in an abduction of a 9-year-old in another Indiana town recently, James Brian Chadwell Jr., had been cleared or was still under suspicion. I got so lost in the weeds of this podcast I finally gave up trying to determine if he is your "DP" or if you all believe Chadwell had nothing to do with it. I don't think it would matter to me now, because I don't trust your judgment to sift through things anyway.

  • Michael
    Michael Texas
    Yeah. Pull these episodes down. If in a few days you still think this responsible content then put up again. Advice from someone seeing you make a big mistake here and hoping you see it with a few days to think about. One thing for a true crime hobbyist to make claims on Reddit but you have influence and have the credibility to destroy this guys life. As Lemon says, if DP can’t produce the girl (girlfriend or second girlfriend) than the weight of 150 LE officers is on him. If he can’t produce a credible gf than we aren’t pleading with Cheyenne to come clean on a podcast, we are watching her interrogation video on Dateline as police threaten to lock her up for providing false statements. To believe Skip is to believe that a credible girl wasn’t produced by DP.

    Yeah. Pull these episodes down. If in a few days you still think this responsible content then put up again. Advice from someone seeing you make a big mistake here and hoping you see it with a few days to think about.

    One thing for a true crime hobbyist to make claims on Reddit but you have influence and have the credibility to destroy this guys life.

    As Lemon says, if DP can’t produce the girl (girlfriend or second girlfriend) than the weight of 150 LE officers is on him. If he can’t produce a credible gf than we aren’t pleading with Cheyenne to come clean on a podcast, we are watching her interrogation video on Dateline as police threaten to lock her up for providing false statements. To believe Skip is to believe that a credible girl wasn’t produced by DP.

  • Michael
    Michael Texas
    Nic Claiming that you are just going to stick to DP’s initials which makes this all kosher is BS. Skip has put this guys name and links to his photo on. Reddit. You don’t have to be a sleuth to connect skip Jansen on TCG to skip Jansen on Reddit. This is just you CYA and I think you are better than this.

    Nic

    Claiming that you are just going to stick to DP’s initials which makes this all kosher is BS. Skip has put this guys name and links to his photo on. Reddit. You don’t have to be a sleuth to connect skip Jansen on TCG to skip Jansen on Reddit. This is just you CYA and I think you are better than this.

  • Joe
    Joe NY
    Why was BG so bundled up that day if it was so warm out. Was it because it helped him to disgise himself. or because he was there all morning ( when it was still very cold out) waiting looking for the right victim. I believe they were talking to someone before that day and that person told them to meet there. This whole thing is diabolical. I think there are a few red herrings in this case; furthermore, the people involved know who they are and what they did. May it fester and fester for the rest of their lives. They will never be truly free and happy. Never. Their actions will be brought to the Highest of Judges.

    Why was BG so bundled up that day if it was so warm out. Was it because it helped him to disgise himself. or because he was there all morning ( when it was still very cold out) waiting looking for the right victim. I believe they were talking to someone before that day and that person told them to meet there. This whole thing is diabolical. I think there are a few red herrings in this case; furthermore, the people involved know who they are and what they did. May it fester and fester for the rest of their lives. They will never be truly free and happy. Never. Their actions will be brought to the Highest of Judges.

  • Joe
    Joe NY
    One more thing about BG, there is one more thing that leads me to believe that he is older in age. This being that he didn't take cell phone or try destroying it. If BG is older I'm thinking that's not in the forefront of his thinking because he didn't grow up with one; not like a younger person anyway. I feel like if BG was younger he would of made sure bout something like that. Unless this goes to prove that BG is young and has never done something like this before and he panicked after the murder of the first girl.

    One more thing about BG, there is one more thing that leads me to believe that he is older in age. This being that he didn't take cell phone or try destroying it. If BG is older I'm thinking that's not in the forefront of his thinking because he didn't grow up with one; not like a younger person anyway. I feel like if BG was younger he would of made sure bout something like that. Unless this goes to prove that BG is young and has never done something like this before and he panicked after the murder of the first girl.

  • Jennifer
    Jennifer Columbia, SC
    Hi, prosecutor here! Just one quick thing while I'm mid-episode, there wouldn't be any Miranda issues for someone brought in to be interviewed only as a witness. Miranda only applies to custodial interrogations, which is a very specific subset of interviews. If someone is not in custody (i.e., they are not in a situation where they are not free to leave), then they do not need to be read their Miranda rights. It's a common misconception that everyone who is ever questioned by the police needs to be read their rights. That isn't the case. It isn't even necessary for the police to read a person who has just been arrested their rights UNLESS they intend to question that person about the offense for which they are being arrested. Miranda also does not apply to voluntary statements made to police that are initiated by the person being questioned (i.e., not in response to a question asked by the police, but rather a spontaneous statement made by the interviewee).

    Hi, prosecutor here! Just one quick thing while I'm mid-episode, there wouldn't be any Miranda issues for someone brought in to be interviewed only as a witness. Miranda only applies to custodial interrogations, which is a very specific subset of interviews. If someone is not in custody (i.e., they are not in a situation where they are not free to leave), then they do not need to be read their Miranda rights. It's a common misconception that everyone who is ever questioned by the police needs to be read their rights. That isn't the case. It isn't even necessary for the police to read a person who has just been arrested their rights UNLESS they intend to question that person about the offense for which they are being arrested. Miranda also does not apply to voluntary statements made to police that are initiated by the person being questioned (i.e., not in response to a question asked by the police, but rather a spontaneous statement made by the interviewee).

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you Jennifer. Cheers Nic

    Thank you Jennifer. Cheers Nic

  • K7B
    K7B Chicago
    This case is haunting, it is hard to believe that is is unsolved after all of this time and all of this scrutiny by everyone involved. The community of crime solvers have a lot of interesting theories, but no answers. I would like to change the "Captains" moniker and change it to the "King" He is the king of the dick jokes. I started listening from Episode 1 about 6 months ago and I am now listening to the Unabomber series and I have listened to every "Off the Record" Love the show and the hard work with the passion that you put into your work. My wife is definitely "Team Captain" because until she met me she thought that the "Bad" guys were cool.

    This case is haunting, it is hard to believe that is is unsolved after all of this time and all of this scrutiny by everyone involved. The community of crime solvers have a lot of interesting theories, but no answers.

    I would like to change the "Captains" moniker and change it to the "King" He is the king of the dick jokes. I started listening from Episode 1 about 6 months ago and I am now listening to the Unabomber series and I have listened to every "Off the Record"

    Love the show and the hard work with the passion that you put into your work. My wife is definitely "Team Captain" because until she met me she thought that the "Bad" guys were cool.

  • John (Georgia) (my name won’t post?) Two things after listening to yet another podcast on Delphi (scene of the crime)…. It’s crazy to think that LE honestly felt this would get wrapped up in a matter of days… crazy given where this is after 4 years. There no indication of why they initially believed this .. but it seems to be the case. Second point I wish there was some way possible of knowing what percentage of evidence the public knows about - obviously without giving away WHAT that evidence is … but after hearing in multiple accounts that there was in fact a lot and some of it odd or distinctive … I’d love to know how much they’re holding back , again without knowing specifics. It seems almost contradictory that there’s likely not much more video or audio yet …there’s supposedly a lot of evidence. Has anyone ever indicated the make and model of car for example? I know cliches being what they are people feel overwhelmed and think things like “it could have been anyone “…. But honestly…no it can’t. It’s a town of 3k people… there’s only so many people at the park that day… there’s only so many vehicles… etc. very frustrating

    John (Georgia) (my name won’t post?)

    Two things after listening to yet another podcast on Delphi (scene of the crime)…. It’s crazy to think that LE honestly felt this would get wrapped up in a matter of days… crazy given where this is after 4 years. There no indication of why they initially believed this .. but it seems to be the case.

    Second point I wish there was some way possible of knowing what percentage of evidence the public knows about - obviously without giving away WHAT that evidence is … but after hearing in multiple accounts that there was in fact a lot and some of it odd or distinctive … I’d love to know how much they’re holding back , again without knowing specifics. It seems almost contradictory that there’s likely not much more video or audio yet …there’s supposedly a lot of evidence.

    Has anyone ever indicated the make and model of car for example?

    I know cliches being what they are people feel overwhelmed and think things like “it could have been anyone “…. But honestly…no it can’t. It’s a town of 3k people… there’s only so many people at the park that day… there’s only so many vehicles… etc. very frustrating

  • Ashley
    Ashley Nebraska
    As a long time fan of the show I do despair. You should rename these segments “suspect of the month”. Every time it’s someone new and absolutely no apologies to those thrown under the bus before. You are losing me as a listener and I know I’m not alone, which is ironic given the great work you both have always done in keeping this case in the public eye. Please please stop this now

    As a long time fan of the show I do despair. You should rename these segments “suspect of the month”. Every time it’s someone new and absolutely no apologies to those thrown under the bus before.

    You are losing me as a listener and I know I’m not alone, which is ironic given the great work you both have always done in keeping this case in the public eye. Please please stop this now

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Joseph (Fisher's IN)- IMO... there is most likely additional audio. As for the comparing DP and BG... I don't believe they have released enough to make a fair comparison.

    @Joseph (Fisher's IN)-

    IMO... there is most likely additional audio. As for the comparing DP and BG... I don't believe they have released enough to make a fair comparison.

  • Steph
    Steph RI
    Skip and TCG - I really enjoyed these episodes. This is one of the cases that I frequently check for updates. I’m just curious, what are your thoughts on the whole “Leigh Kerr” thing that popped up a few months ago? Do you think this person was credible and giving accurate info or just trolling? And do you think that he is actually JDW? (The pastor who seemed to accidentally answer a question under the wrong profile?) I know many think the leaker was full of shit. Some said they thought he was BG himself. I’ve always been on the fence.

    Skip and TCG - I really enjoyed these episodes. This is one of the cases that I frequently check for updates. I’m just curious, what are your thoughts on the whole “Leigh Kerr” thing that popped up a few months ago? Do you think this person was credible and giving accurate info or just trolling? And do you think that he is actually JDW? (The pastor who seemed to accidentally answer a question under the wrong profile?) I know many think the leaker was full of shit. Some said they thought he was BG himself. I’ve always been on the fence.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Valerie (NC)- 1) I believe he was seen walking between Hwy 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Hwy as he was approaching his vehicle at the CPS building. I think it is likely that he had shed the jacket and possible hat, by this point. 2) The entire story about who was near the bridge and what was heard/ not heard has always been ambiguous. The accounts have changed a lot over the years. For example... I was told that FSG told DG that he " heard a couple under the bridge". That changed to "heard a couple arguing under the bridge". That changed again to "saw a couple under the bridge". The most recent I heard is... "a couple at the bridge". All of this has taken place without DG or FSG ever saying a word publicly. So... I tend to believe early statements before influence becomes involved. Remember... in Part One, I stated that "LE and perpetrators have 180 degree opposite agendas. LE needs to place someone under the bridge from 2:30-3:30. The perpetrator needs to be anywhere else but there." It's like a game of musical chairs. The perp will go to great lengths to avoid being the last one standing when the music stops.

    @Valerie (NC)-

    1) I believe he was seen walking between Hwy 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Hwy as he was approaching his vehicle at the CPS building. I think it is likely that he had shed the jacket and possible hat, by this point.

    2) The entire story about who was near the bridge and what was heard/ not heard has always been ambiguous.

    The accounts have changed a lot over the years. For example... I was told that FSG told DG that he " heard a couple under the bridge". That changed to "heard a couple arguing under the bridge". That changed again to "saw a couple under the bridge". The most recent I heard is... "a couple at the bridge". All of this has taken place without DG or FSG ever saying a word publicly. So... I tend to believe early statements before influence becomes involved.

    Remember... in Part One, I stated that "LE and perpetrators have 180 degree opposite agendas. LE needs to place someone under the bridge from 2:30-3:30. The perpetrator needs to be anywhere else but there." It's like a game of musical chairs. The perp will go to great lengths to avoid being the last one standing when the music stops.

  • Joan
    Joan Brisbane
    Does anyone not think ‘down the hill’ sounds like an Irish accent? I’ve only ever heard that accent.

    Does anyone not think ‘down the hill’ sounds like an Irish accent? I’ve only ever heard that accent.

  • Collin
    Collin Indiana
    Skip, why can’t you say anymore about your theory? You only note you believe it is related to fentanyl but more personal than that. If you aren’t law enforcement in some capacity, why “can’t you say anymore”? I get the sense you theorize DG was involved with DP’s family and LG was a revenge kill. Please elaborate. Thanks for your time

    Skip, why can’t you say anymore about your theory? You only note you believe it is related to fentanyl but more personal than that. If you aren’t law enforcement in some capacity, why “can’t you say anymore”? I get the sense you theorize DG was involved with DP’s family and LG was a revenge kill. Please elaborate. Thanks for your time

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Meredith (Raleigh)- I think you may have misunderstood what was said. I don't recall the exact exchange (or who said it), but.... I don't think it had anything to do with a "feature" on the app. Libby uploaded a photo to SN at 2:07. Correct? The point was... if BG was following her on Snapchat, he would have known that she was on the bridge. A local wouldn't need a map feature (or whatever you are referencing) to identify the location. It would be very obvious.

    Meredith (Raleigh)-

    I think you may have misunderstood what was said. I don't recall the exact exchange (or who said it), but.... I don't think it had anything to do with a "feature" on the app.

    Libby uploaded a photo to SN at 2:07. Correct? The point was... if BG was following her on Snapchat, he would have known that she was on the bridge. A local wouldn't need a map feature (or whatever you are referencing) to identify the location. It would be very obvious.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Jennifer Columbus (SC)- Thank you Jennifer. Wasn't 100% sure about that. I was getting conflicting information. I do wonder what potential issues might arise when a "witness" becomes a "suspect". I believe this particular POI has only been interviewed as a witness. And... we don't know which organization(s) handled the witness statements. IMO.. that may have been an issue early on. When a multitask force is involved, it has to be coordinated perfectly, at each level. It's really not that hard for something to fall through the cracks or get missed. That's why I believe it wasn't until the GBI was brought in that any bias was removed and viewed through a different optic. That lead to.... "For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy." The time frame fits perfectly.

    @Jennifer Columbus (SC)-

    Thank you Jennifer. Wasn't 100% sure about that. I was getting conflicting information. I do wonder what potential issues might arise when a "witness" becomes a "suspect". I believe this particular POI has only been interviewed as a witness. And... we don't know which organization(s) handled the witness statements.

    IMO.. that may have been an issue early on. When a multitask force is involved, it has to be coordinated perfectly, at each level. It's really not that hard for something to fall through the cracks or get missed. That's why I believe it wasn't until the GBI was brought in that any bias was removed and viewed through a different optic. That lead to.... "For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy." The time frame fits perfectly.

  • Tiffany
    Tiffany Parts Unknown
    Hey Nic & Captain! Thanks for always putting out quality podcasts! You guys are the best! I have a few questions for you after listening to the 3 part Delphi New Suspect episodes you just released. I do not want to assume, but it does sound to me like you both are leaning towards agreeing with Skip that BG is DP and he is in fact the number 1 suspect. Is this true? If so, when did you both decide DP is BG? I went back to episodes 468 & 469 The 4 years later episodes. During those episodes I didn't get the feeling you had a suspect in mind until the very end of episode 469. Captain, at the end of episode 469, you said the suspect is a married older man, who has kids, grandkids, goes to church, makes a lot of money for the area, lives in a big house, a leader of a company, a career man. You said his wife is lying for him for an alibi and it would be a shock to the community this person was BG. This is clearly not DP. Would you elaborate on your thoughts of who BG really is? Is it this older married man or is it DP? Cheers to both of you!!

    Hey Nic & Captain!
    Thanks for always putting out quality podcasts! You guys are the best! I have a few questions for you after listening to the 3 part Delphi New Suspect episodes you just released. I do not want to assume, but it does sound to me like you both are leaning towards agreeing with Skip that BG is DP and he is in fact the number 1 suspect. Is this true? If so, when did you both decide DP is BG? I went back to episodes 468 & 469 The 4 years later episodes. During those episodes I didn't get the feeling you had a suspect in mind until the very end of episode 469. Captain, at the end of episode 469, you said the suspect is a married older man, who has kids, grandkids, goes to church, makes a lot of money for the area, lives in a big house, a leader of a company, a career man. You said his wife is lying for him for an alibi and it would be a shock to the community this person was BG. This is clearly not DP. Would you elaborate on your thoughts of who BG really is? Is it this older married man or is it DP? Cheers to both of you!!

  • Jax
    Jax Marissa, IL
    NEW SUSPECT IS BEING INVESTIGATED! Lafayette, IN arrested James Brian Chadwell in April after searching his house and finding a missing half beaten sexually abused 9 year old girl. He's being charged with attempted murder, from what i gather he was abusing her in the basement when the police came knocking. He lives only 15 MILES AWAY FROM DELPHI !!! Investigators are looking into his case. I'm going to share a link (I'm not a fan of the platform ofthe article but it shows a lot) and you will see that he resembles the sketch! Chadwell has a tattoo of two young girls crying on each arm, one even resembles Libby! He has social media posts showing him camping under an old rail road bridge! He hikes often according to social media. This link doesn't provide it, but search for his tiktok videos and then listen to the audio clip. I believe they sound very similar. I assume they Ran DNA on him. Maybe they got a hit but aren't releasing info until they get more out of him. Maybe there's no match. As of July Delphi investigators started to look into him. Please Google James Brian Chadwell and profile him. I think he may be a good suspect. https://heavy.com/news/james-brian-chadwell/

    NEW SUSPECT IS BEING INVESTIGATED!
    Lafayette, IN arrested James Brian Chadwell in April after searching his house and finding a missing half beaten sexually abused 9 year old girl. He's being charged with attempted murder, from what i gather he was abusing her in the basement when the police came knocking.
    He lives only 15 MILES AWAY FROM DELPHI !!!
    Investigators are looking into his case. I'm going to share a link (I'm not a fan of the platform ofthe article but it shows a lot) and you will see that he resembles the sketch!
    Chadwell has a tattoo of two young girls crying on each arm, one even resembles Libby! He has social media posts showing him camping under an old rail road bridge!
    He hikes often according to social media.

    This link doesn't provide it, but search for his tiktok videos and then listen to the audio clip. I believe they sound very similar.
    I assume they Ran DNA on him. Maybe they got a hit but aren't releasing info until they get more out of him. Maybe there's no match. As of July Delphi investigators started to look into him. Please Google James Brian Chadwell and profile him. I think he may be a good suspect. https://heavy.com/news/james-brian-chadwell/

  • Jhonny5
    Jhonny5 Parts Unknown
    The one thing I don’t understand, and I don’t know if someone else brought this up in previous comments because I did not read them all. If DP is the offender, or one of the offenders, then why would he come out publicly? If LE had come out and named him as a suspect or POI then it would make sense why he could come out publicly. He’s knows then that they are looking at him and will be following and reading what he puts out there. But they haven’t named anyone as a suspect or POI. The only theory that I recall Skip putting forth as possible motivation for DP to come out publicly is he wants to put up smoke screens and red herrings for investigators. Well he could do that much more effectively directly with investigators through the interview process, calling them, sending them letters, or something to that effect. Doing it publicly through social media and other public forums seems like it wouldn’t be very successful, especially in this case where there is already soo much speculation and conjecture already out there. There’s no guarantee that any of the investigators will ever even see anything he puts out there. Even if they do see it, there’s no guarantee they lend that information any credibility and follow any possible avenues of investigation. In short, it seems pretty foolish for someone to think they can lead investigators astray through social media and public forums where anyone can post anything. Seems like a longshot. Why bring that attention to yourself if the goal is to not be anywhere near the crime scene at the time of the crime? This all seems like people who were in the park that day seeing an opportunity to get some notoriety and that’s why their stories and timelines are off. They want to seem like they are important witness’s when in actuality they probably didn’t witness anything of any real significance, so they have to change their stories and times. One last comment, I was some what bothered with the way Skip spoke with such conviction about how LE claimed the offender(s) is following the case closely, implying that it is a fact. Like most everything with this case, we don’t know that. That is speculation. I do believe the offender(s) are following the case as that tid bit of intel more than likely comes from the FBI’s profile of the offender(s), but he shouldn’t state it in such a way that it implies it’s a fact, it hurts your credibility. We think they are following the case, but we don’t know for sure.

    The one thing I don’t understand, and I don’t know if someone else brought this up in previous comments because I did not read them all. If DP is the offender, or one of the offenders, then why would he come out publicly? If LE had come out and named him as a suspect or POI then it would make sense why he could come out publicly. He’s knows then that they are looking at him and will be following and reading what he puts out there. But they haven’t named anyone as a suspect or POI.
    The only theory that I recall Skip putting forth as possible motivation for DP to come out publicly is he wants to put up smoke screens and red herrings for investigators. Well he could do that much more effectively directly with investigators through the interview process, calling them, sending them letters, or something to that effect. Doing it publicly through social media and other public forums seems like it wouldn’t be very successful, especially in this case where there is already soo much speculation and conjecture already out there. There’s no guarantee that any of the investigators will ever even see anything he puts out there. Even if they do see it, there’s no guarantee they lend that information any credibility and follow any possible avenues of investigation. In short, it seems pretty foolish for someone to think they can lead investigators astray through social media and public forums where anyone can post anything. Seems like a longshot. Why bring that attention to yourself if the goal is to not be anywhere near the crime scene at the time of the crime?
    This all seems like people who were in the park that day seeing an opportunity to get some notoriety and that’s why their stories and timelines are off. They want to seem like they are important witness’s when in actuality they probably didn’t witness anything of any real significance, so they have to change their stories and times.
    One last comment, I was some what bothered with the way Skip spoke with such conviction about how LE claimed the offender(s) is following the case closely, implying that it is a fact. Like most everything with this case, we don’t know that. That is speculation. I do believe the offender(s) are following the case as that tid bit of intel more than likely comes from the FBI’s profile of the offender(s), but he shouldn’t state it in such a way that it implies it’s a fact, it hurts your credibility. We think they are following the case, but we don’t know for sure.

  • Phil Johnson
    Phil Johnson Houston, TX
    I think they had the GBI get involved because this case has a Tara Grinstead vibe to it.

    I think they had the GBI get involved because this case has a Tara Grinstead vibe to it.

  • Jhonny5
    Jhonny5 Parts Unknown
    To follow up and clarify my previous comment, I understand DP was interviewed at least once by investigators. If DP is the offender it serves him little, if any, benefit to continue to speak about it publicly, why draw that attention to you? This doesn't mean DP isn't the offender, I just think its highly unlikely. Skip reminds me of James Renner in how he kind of glosses over some things that poke holes in his theory and/or creates ideas, conjecture and speculation to fit his theory. Skip is constantly reminding us that the offender(s) would follow the case, as if its fact. DP is following the case and there's 3-4 other points, that we really don't know if they are true/real, that could connect him to the crime. We don't know if lied to investigators, we don't know wat he said to investigators. LE has release very little information so theres a lot of conjecture in his theory. Also, a completely innocent witness who was interviewed by LE would also likely follow the case closely and and maybe even post about it on social media and Reddit.

    To follow up and clarify my previous comment, I understand DP was interviewed at least once by investigators. If DP is the offender it serves him little, if any, benefit to continue to speak about it publicly, why draw that attention to you? This doesn't mean DP isn't the offender, I just think its highly unlikely.
    Skip reminds me of James Renner in how he kind of glosses over some things that poke holes in his theory and/or creates ideas, conjecture and speculation to fit his theory. Skip is constantly reminding us that the offender(s) would follow the case, as if its fact. DP is following the case and there's 3-4 other points, that we really don't know if they are true/real, that could connect him to the crime. We don't know if lied to investigators, we don't know wat he said to investigators. LE has release very little information so theres a lot of conjecture in his theory. Also, a completely innocent witness who was interviewed by LE would also likely follow the case closely and and maybe even post about it on social media and Reddit.

  • nixx
    nixx Australia
    Well this ep was not my cup of tea but I did listen, Can you imagine getting all these POI together for a big piss up, maybe then one of them might spill the truth, they all cant be telling the truth, In my mind BG had handcuffs to control the girls, and a gun but didnt shoot, he wasnt meant to kill them there, Why is is so hard to get peoples head around about the person whos car was left in or at ron logans driveway, the person who lost their keys, who found the bodys, did he drop something when he killed the girls and he just had to be near when the girls were found? so he could get what ever it was? how about 2 BGs because remember there was 2 sets of boots prints leading down to the girls from cemetery direction. 2 middle age men in it together wearing the same kind of clothes, one to coax the girls the other waiting at the car . What about abbys KIK account? was it a teen football player and his dad helped him cover it up because he would lose his scholarship? very well known in Delphi areas. Has anyone seen the video every 15 minutes done by the Delphi high school, one kid looks a lot like younger BG , but if we look hard enough 3/4 of their town looks like BG, half my town dress same too.. .just like the photo from 2016 Delphi xmas street parade, wow there is another identical BG in same clothes same hat and boots..

    Well this ep was not my cup of tea but I did listen, Can you imagine getting all these POI together for a big piss up, maybe then one of them might spill the truth, they all cant be telling the truth, In my mind BG had handcuffs to control the girls, and a gun but didnt shoot, he wasnt meant to kill them there, Why is is so hard to get peoples head around about the person whos car was left in or at ron logans driveway, the person who lost their keys, who found the bodys, did he drop something when he killed the girls and he just had to be near when the girls were found? so he could get what ever it was? how about 2 BGs because remember there was 2 sets of boots prints leading down to the girls from cemetery direction. 2 middle age men in it together wearing the same kind of clothes, one to coax the girls the other waiting at the car . What about abbys KIK account? was it a teen football player and his dad helped him cover it up because he would lose his scholarship? very well known in Delphi areas. Has anyone seen the video every 15 minutes done by the Delphi high school, one kid looks a lot like younger BG , but if we look hard enough 3/4 of their town looks like BG, half my town dress same too.. .just like the photo from 2016 Delphi xmas street parade, wow there is another identical BG in same clothes same hat and boots..

  • Marky
    Marky ON
    @Skip, if there's a small amount of DNA (or poor quality DNA), did they do a SRY profile? Do they have too few SRY markers, or general markers?

    @Skip,

    if there's a small amount of DNA (or poor quality DNA), did they do a SRY profile? Do they have too few SRY markers, or general markers?

  • b-RAD
    b-RAD Grand Canyon S tate
    @skip - Any chance you could spend more time answering questions?

    @skip -

    Any chance you could spend more time answering questions?

  • Oceania
    Oceania Canada
    Guys I don’t know. Not sure giving three episodes to a random guy’s theory is the smartest move if you are also going to dox the person they’re pointing fingers at which I would argue even stating his initials does…not hard to do some quick googling to put two and two together. So while your intentions are probably good- we all want this resolved- I think I’d have to echo what others have said in that you kind of put yourselves above doing stuff like this so it’s somewhat disappointing. It came across as a guy who has tunnel vision for his pet theory and two other guys who were broadcasting it without critical questioning. But really enjoy the show otherwise, and do appreciate that you seem to care about the Delphi case a lot.

    Guys I don’t know. Not sure giving three episodes to a random guy’s theory is the smartest move if you are also going to dox the person they’re pointing fingers at which I would argue even stating his initials does…not hard to do some quick googling to put two and two together. So while your intentions are probably good- we all want this resolved- I think I’d have to echo what others have said in that you kind of put yourselves above doing stuff like this so it’s somewhat disappointing. It came across as a guy who has tunnel vision for his pet theory and two other guys who were broadcasting it without critical questioning.

    But really enjoy the show otherwise, and do appreciate that you seem to care about the Delphi case a lot.

  • Joe Martinez
    Joe Martinez Michigan
    Skip... 1. I believe you said that DP claims to have rode the bus with the girls. How is that possible? Is the school system that small? Was he a bus attendant? 2. Has law enforcement officially cleared anyone as a suspect when it comes to family or close associates?

    Skip...

    1. I believe you said that DP claims to have rode the bus with the girls. How is that possible? Is the school system that small? Was he a bus attendant?

    2. Has law enforcement officially cleared anyone as a suspect when it comes to family or close associates?

  • Krista
    Krista CA
    Sounds like a couple of kids lying to say they were there for clout. Why wait days to report being there? Because DP wasn't there. Why wait until after the photo of BG is released to come forward? So DP can say that's the person he witnessed and use it to help create the sketch. Why does DP's story keep changing? Because DP wasn't there. Why did nobody see DP's car? DP wasn't there. Why don't we know who DP's lady friend is? Because she doesn't exist. This entire theory rests on DP saying he was there. Why should we believe him?

    Sounds like a couple of kids lying to say they were there for clout.
    Why wait days to report being there? Because DP wasn't there. Why wait until after the photo of BG is released to come forward? So DP can say that's the person he witnessed and use it to help create the sketch. Why does DP's story keep changing? Because DP wasn't there. Why did nobody see DP's car? DP wasn't there. Why don't we know who DP's lady friend is? Because she doesn't exist.
    This entire theory rests on DP saying he was there. Why should we believe him?

  • Chrissy
    Chrissy Winnipeg
    @SETH I couldn’t agree more. After Skip should have heard the guys saying time and time again how they don’t publicly name suspects, to come here on their blog and publicly name the suspect is rather gross. I enjoy anonymous speculation as much as any other armchair detective, but to be given space on someone else’s platform and then immediately break their rules says a lot about someone IMO. Love TCG, love the guys, but these episodes weren’t up to their normal high standards.

    @SETH

    I couldn’t agree more. After Skip should have heard the guys saying time and time again how they don’t publicly name suspects, to come here on their blog and publicly name the suspect is rather gross. I enjoy anonymous speculation as much as any other armchair detective, but to be given space on someone else’s platform and then immediately break their rules says a lot about someone IMO. Love TCG, love the guys, but these episodes weren’t up to their normal high standards.

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo
    Open question for anyone wanting to theorize because I am curious how it makes sense...supposing DP is BG... is his alibi so tight that LE can find no cracks in his movements, clothing or behavior before and after the murders? He would have had to arrive at the park, weapon on person, wearing too many layers, looking suspect as hell (does DP have any background in hunting or knife use? The crime scene was brutal). Wouldn't someone he know recognize the jacket and assuming his clothing was not left at the crime scene, did no one see him or a pair of wet jeans and blood-splattered clothes? I can see how there is reason to put him at the scene but wouldn't there be indicators of what he was doing before and after the crimes that would check off some boxes of circumstantial evidence? One problem I have with the many witnesses working together to cover for each other is that it's been 4.5 years and I would think someone would break- 1 person can keep a secret, 2 people can try but the more in on something the more likely it will crumble. I am not shooting the theory down (never say never until someone is charged) but besides DP at the scene at the time of the murders, is there anything else anyone knows about this guy that makes sense in the hours before and after? And OT, I have this crazy conspiracy theory in my head that BG returned to the crime scene between the murders and the bodies being found for attempts at staging or removing evidence. Anyone want to go down that rabbit hole with me?

    Open question for anyone wanting to theorize because I am curious how it makes sense...supposing DP is BG... is his alibi so tight that LE can find no cracks in his movements, clothing or behavior before and after the murders? He would have had to arrive at the park, weapon on person, wearing too many layers, looking suspect as hell (does DP have any background in hunting or knife use? The crime scene was brutal). Wouldn't someone he know recognize the jacket and assuming his clothing was not left at the crime scene, did no one see him or a pair of wet jeans and blood-splattered clothes? I can see how there is reason to put him at the scene but wouldn't there be indicators of what he was doing before and after the crimes that would check off some boxes of circumstantial evidence? One problem I have with the many witnesses working together to cover for each other is that it's been 4.5 years and I would think someone would break- 1 person can keep a secret, 2 people can try but the more in on something the more likely it will crumble. I am not shooting the theory down (never say never until someone is charged) but besides DP at the scene at the time of the murders, is there anything else anyone knows about this guy that makes sense in the hours before and after? And OT, I have this crazy conspiracy theory in my head that BG returned to the crime scene between the murders and the bodies being found for attempts at staging or removing evidence. Anyone want to go down that rabbit hole with me?

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Tiffany - in regards to a suspect for us anyway... I can't speak for the Captain but clearly the person he was discussing is a different person from who Skip is talking about. As for me I have "suspects" but unless they have been named elsewhere I haven't been discussing mine. That could change for me but I'm not here or on the show to argue suspects. I am happy to point out when and why someone does not make for a good suspect, alibi - being the biggest of those reasons. Unfortunately I have seen countless persons being named online as suspects with nothing to validate such a statement. Skip's theory is interesting but it has questions. So No, the person Skip is talking about is not "my suspect." What is interesting though is this is a person who has by their own words placed themselves at the abduction/murder scene around the same time that everything went down and then changed his story. That is very questionable behavior. So I think this person should be on everyone's big board of suspects but I think there are several "good" suspects or persons of interest in this case. I know LE has several in this case. So I think Chadwell and DP should be on that big board list. They are on mine. I still believe this is a sexually motivated abduction and will believe that until LE says otherwise. Cheers Nic

    @ Tiffany - in regards to a suspect for us anyway... I can't speak for the Captain but clearly the person he was discussing is a different person from who Skip is talking about. As for me I have "suspects" but unless they have been named elsewhere I haven't been discussing mine. That could change for me but I'm not here or on the show to argue suspects. I am happy to point out when and why someone does not make for a good suspect, alibi - being the biggest of those reasons. Unfortunately I have seen countless persons being named online as suspects with nothing to validate such a statement. Skip's theory is interesting but it has questions. So No, the person Skip is talking about is not "my suspect." What is interesting though is this is a person who has by their own words placed themselves at the abduction/murder scene around the same time that everything went down and then changed his story. That is very questionable behavior. So I think this person should be on everyone's big board of suspects but I think there are several "good" suspects or persons of interest in this case. I know LE has several in this case. So I think Chadwell and DP should be on that big board list. They are on mine. I still believe this is a sexually motivated abduction and will believe that until LE says otherwise.
    Cheers Nic

  • Joe
    Joe Nyny
    What i find very interesting with these episodes and the comments on this blog and others is the following. So why is it that when there is anyother POI mentioned you don't see nearly the amount of backlash as to ruining the POI's life. However, with this POI, everyone and thier mother is saying how messed up it is and how it could ruin his life or this and that. Does this go to show how envolved this person is in trying to follow the case?

    What i find very interesting with these episodes and the comments on this blog and others is the following. So why is it that when there is anyother POI mentioned you don't see nearly the amount of backlash as to ruining the POI's life. However, with this POI, everyone and thier mother is saying how messed up it is and how it could ruin his life or this and that. Does this go to show how envolved this person is in trying to follow the case?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Jhonny5- LE absolutely believes BG has been following the case closely. They have made reference to that numerous times. I have included statements from LE on the very blog. Also, LE has said numerous times that they have been paying close attention to Social Media throughout the investigation.

    Jhonny5-

    LE absolutely believes BG has been following the case closely. They have made reference to that numerous times. I have included statements from LE on the very blog.

    Also, LE has said numerous times that they have been paying close attention to Social Media throughout the investigation.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Marky (ON)- I was told that there are too few markers to identify an individual. I do believe they have enough to rule out. I'm certainly not a DNA expert. I was told the number of markers they have, but... wouldn't know what the threshold to get over is.

    @Marky (ON)-

    I was told that there are too few markers to identify an individual. I do believe they have enough to rule out. I'm certainly not a DNA expert. I was told the number of markers they have, but... wouldn't know what the threshold to get over is.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @b-Rad (Grand Canyon State)- I've tried to answer every question that has been asked. Did I miss one?

    @b-Rad (Grand Canyon State)-

    I've tried to answer every question that has been asked. Did I miss one?

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Joe Martinez (Michigan)- 1. Yes. The school system is that small. Plus... DP lived within a half mile of Libby, at one point. 2. I don't believe LE have publicly cleared anyone. I also don't believe that they suspect the family in any manner.

    @Joe Martinez (Michigan)-

    1. Yes. The school system is that small. Plus... DP lived within a half mile of Libby, at one point.

    2. I don't believe LE have publicly cleared anyone. I also don't believe that they suspect the family in any manner.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    Joe (NYNY)- I'm so glad you mentioned this. It's pretty obvious isn't it? The post-crime activity is a key element in finding the correct POI. The misinformation campaign that has been waged in this case is unlike anything I've ever seen. LE knows he's been following the case and has been providing misdirection and deflection. IMO... It's why they have shut the information pipeline off.

    Joe (NYNY)-

    I'm so glad you mentioned this. It's pretty obvious isn't it?

    The post-crime activity is a key element in finding the correct POI. The misinformation campaign that has been waged in this case is unlike anything I've ever seen. LE knows he's been following the case and has been providing misdirection and deflection. IMO... It's why they have shut the information pipeline off.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Joan (Brisbane)- An Irish accent? I've never heard that before. Interesting.

    @Joan (Brisbane)-

    An Irish accent? I've never heard that before. Interesting.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Collin (Indiana)- The reason I can't say more is because it involves another person that I believe to be totally innocent.

    @Collin (Indiana)-

    The reason I can't say more is because it involves another person that I believe to be totally innocent.

  • Luciana S
    Luciana S
    Does anyone else think it might be time for LE to release some more information to the public? On one hand I understand wanting to keep things from to public to protect the case. However, after four and a half years with no arrests, it may be time to release at least a little more information.

    Does anyone else think it might be time for LE to release some more information to the public? On one hand I understand wanting to keep things from to public to protect the case. However, after four and a half years with no arrests, it may be time to release at least a little more information.

  • Joe
    Joe NYNY
    In regards to April 2019 press conference, I still beileve BG is an older person; so I was thinking why would Police change sketches from the older one to younger one. This is what I came up with, so what if Police did this to put pressure on BG to come forward because he may think that younger sketch may look like someone really really close to him; moreover, when the police said we probably have talked to you or SOMEONE CLOSE TO YOU...

    In regards to April 2019 press conference,
    I still beileve BG is an older person; so I was thinking why would Police change sketches from the older one to younger one. This is what I came up with, so what if Police did this to put pressure on BG to come forward because he may think that younger sketch may look like someone really really close to him; moreover, when the police said we probably have talked to you or SOMEONE CLOSE TO YOU...

  • Jess
    Jess Parts Unknown
    Fascinating episodes - I’ve listened twice and got back through the old Delphi episodes too! Have you guys/Skip discussed or explored the theory that DP is covering for someone else - hence the inconsistencies to his story. His brother looks very much like him (for example!), and has a strong connection to the girls.

    Fascinating episodes - I’ve listened twice and got back through the old Delphi episodes too!

    Have you guys/Skip discussed or explored the theory that DP is covering for someone else - hence the inconsistencies to his story. His brother looks very much like him (for example!), and has a strong connection to the girls.

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo
    One last side note.. Nic stated in the podcast that Indiana collects DNA for all individuals convicted of a felony but it's actually anyone arrested for a felony, which is a much lower threshold. Say a POI ends up arrested for any type of felony; with probable cause, LE can then run their DNA through CODIS. If the person later ends up pleading/found guilty to misdemeanors and no felony convictions occur out of that arrest, the person can request their sample be expunged from the database after 1 year, so long as no other charges are filed (in which case the chance to test DNA is lost). So if any POIs happen to get charged with a felony (not related to being BG), it's a hurry up and wait but don't take too long kind of game. The flip side is LE only gets one shot so even if they have a recommendation of charges against a POI from a grand jury, they can't waste it until their case is beyond any reasonable doubt.

    One last side note.. Nic stated in the podcast that Indiana collects DNA for all individuals convicted of a felony but it's actually anyone arrested for a felony, which is a much lower threshold. Say a POI ends up arrested for any type of felony; with probable cause, LE can then run their DNA through CODIS. If the person later ends up pleading/found guilty to misdemeanors and no felony convictions occur out of that arrest, the person can request their sample be expunged from the database after 1 year, so long as no other charges are filed (in which case the chance to test DNA is lost). So if any POIs happen to get charged with a felony (not related to being BG), it's a hurry up and wait but don't take too long kind of game. The flip side is LE only gets one shot so even if they have a recommendation of charges against a POI from a grand jury, they can't waste it until their case is beyond any reasonable doubt.

  • Amber
    Amber
    @Skip Are there any screenshots of these alleged changing stories from DP, Cheyenne, and others discussed in this podcast?

    @Skip

    Are there any screenshots of these alleged changing stories from DP, Cheyenne, and others discussed in this podcast?

  • LR
    LR Canada
    Skip- in one of the episodes you dropped DP brothers name “Q” A quick search shows that he was arrested and faces charges of child moderation charges (at least someone named QP from Delphi). As you said in episode 3 that the killer must not be in the database prior to the murder,but Indiana had changed law to require DNA added to the database upon arrest?/conviction? - would this mean that Q’s DNA could be used to see if it is a familial match to bridge guy…?

    Skip- in one of the episodes you dropped DP brothers name “Q” A quick search shows that he was arrested and faces charges of child moderation charges (at least someone named QP from Delphi). As you said in episode 3 that the killer must not be in the database prior to the murder,but Indiana had changed law to require DNA added to the database upon arrest?/conviction? - would this mean that Q’s DNA could be used to see if it is a familial match to bridge guy…?

  • Cookie
    Cookie Topeka
    When the Col. and Cpt did their very first episode back at the start the glaring fact shared was that the county has one of the highest sexual offender rates per capita in all of the US of A. This is not Mayberry but a potential Petri dish for psychopaths. In my option the perp is home grown. Perhaps a parent(s) was involved particularity in the cover up especially since the killer was inexperienced at covering their tracks. Skip provides a notable suspect at the scene with a shady storyline, but we still are left in the dark about motive. I long held that Evansdale and Delphi were connected due to the inversely related murder dates and MOAs. Maybe on a dark spiritual level, yes, but I think the Delphi killer has nothing to do with the other murders now. I think that the killer was very familiar with someone in the family somewhere. Keep at it, guys!

    When the Col. and Cpt did their very first episode back at the start the glaring fact shared was that the county has one of the highest sexual offender rates per capita in all of the US of A.

    This is not Mayberry but a potential Petri dish for psychopaths. In my option the perp is home grown. Perhaps a parent(s) was involved particularity in the cover up especially since the killer was inexperienced at covering their tracks.

    Skip provides a notable suspect at the scene with a shady storyline, but we still are left in the dark about motive.

    I long held that Evansdale and Delphi were connected due to the inversely related murder dates and MOAs. Maybe on a dark spiritual level, yes, but I think the Delphi killer has nothing to do with the other murders now.

    I think that the killer was very familiar with someone in the family somewhere.

    Keep at it, guys!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Jess (Parts Unknown)- Good question Jess. I actually looked into the possibility that DP could be covering for someone. I also looked into his brother as a possibility. Eventually... the evidence I uncovered kept coming back to DP being the POI rather than him covering for someone.

    @Jess (Parts Unknown)-

    Good question Jess. I actually looked into the possibility that DP could be covering for someone. I also looked into his brother as a possibility. Eventually... the evidence I uncovered kept coming back to DP being the POI rather than him covering for someone.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Amber- Yes. There are screenshots showing the discrepancies. If I can figure out how to post them here.. I will.

    @Amber-

    Yes. There are screenshots showing the discrepancies. If I can figure out how to post them here.. I will.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @LR (Canada)- Believe it or not... that is another QP. Same spelling as well. Hard to believe that there are two DPs and two QPs in such a small area.

    @LR (Canada)-

    Believe it or not... that is another QP. Same spelling as well. Hard to believe that there are two DPs and two QPs in such a small area.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Luciana S- I believe that the reason LE has been so tight-lipped is because they know that the killer is following the case very closely. They want to keep him in the dark. "You want to know what we know... one day you will."

    @Luciana S-

    I believe that the reason LE has been so tight-lipped is because they know that the killer is following the case very closely. They want to keep him in the dark. "You want to know what we know... one day you will."

  • Amber
    Amber
    If the sketch depicting an older suspect truly came from DP attempting to misdirect the investigation, it's very interesting that it bears such a strong resemblance to his father.

    If the sketch depicting an older suspect truly came from DP attempting to misdirect the investigation, it's very interesting that it bears such a strong resemblance to his father.

  • Collin
    Collin Indiana
    Skip, thanks for responding to my question. Do you believe your POI acted alone to abduct and eventually kill the girls? I'm not asking about if someone inadvertently gave an alibi, I'm asking if you believe more than one person had knowledge during and after the murders were carried out. Do you think someone was sitting in the car at the CPS building waiting for POI? Do you think the POI drove to the Mears lot immediately after the crime or left the area? I apologize for all of the questions. Would you be able to send me any sort of timeline map to help me with my own investigation? Thanks again and have a great day. Also to True Crime Garage. I know some people are upset for this style of episodes and so be it. The end goal here is justice for Abby and Libby. That most likely wouldn't happen without resources like this constantly keeping attention on cases. Thanks for your time.

    Skip, thanks for responding to my question. Do you believe your POI acted alone to abduct and eventually kill the girls? I'm not asking about if someone inadvertently gave an alibi, I'm asking if you believe more than one person had knowledge during and after the murders were carried out. Do you think someone was sitting in the car at the CPS building waiting for POI? Do you think the POI drove to the Mears lot immediately after the crime or left the area? I apologize for all of the questions. Would you be able to send me any sort of timeline map to help me with my own investigation? Thanks again and have a great day.

    Also to True Crime Garage. I know some people are upset for this style of episodes and so be it. The end goal here is justice for Abby and Libby. That most likely wouldn't happen without resources like this constantly keeping attention on cases. Thanks for your time.

  • T
    T Cbus
    Personally I wouldn't have let this episode leave the recording booth. Just three episodes of speculation and nothing really newsworthy. And bringing in some random Redditor as your source? C'mon now.

    Personally I wouldn't have let this episode leave the recording booth. Just three episodes of speculation and nothing really newsworthy. And bringing in some random Redditor as your source? C'mon now.

  • Mark Q
    Mark Q Pasadena
    It seems clear to me a crime of opportunity for Skip Jansen Suspecr (BG? ) who put himself at the crime scene at 3pm. A scenario that fits the timelines and witness accounts is as follows. Suspect arrives before 2pm and cheats on his girlfriend in the car and then goes walking across the bridge with her and into the trails. Derek forgets something (scarf?) at the car and heads back across the bridge to the car by himself while his cheating girl waits for him on the trails. On the way back he sees and follows Libby/Abby across the bridge, coercing them down the hill and killing them around 2:20-2:40. Then the girl he left on the trails comes to find him below the bridge around 3pm and she argues with him for not coming back quickly (he was delayed killing the girls and FSG hears them arguing at 3pm). She didn’t know what he did? They then head back to find her friend and walk the trails together then later leaving while the search is going on. All the while suspect has a conflated alibi from the girls he was with not knowing what he did when he was alone without him.

    It seems clear to me a crime of opportunity for Skip Jansen Suspecr (BG? ) who put himself at the crime scene at 3pm. A scenario that fits the timelines and witness accounts is as follows. Suspect arrives before 2pm and cheats on his girlfriend in the car and then goes walking across the bridge with her and into the trails. Derek forgets something (scarf?) at the car and heads back across the bridge to the car by himself while his cheating girl waits for him on the trails. On the way back he sees and follows Libby/Abby across the bridge, coercing them down the hill and killing them around 2:20-2:40. Then the girl he left on the trails comes to find him below the bridge around 3pm and she argues with him for not coming back quickly (he was delayed killing the girls and FSG hears them arguing at 3pm). She didn’t know what he did? They then head back to find her friend and walk the trails together then later leaving while the search is going on. All the while suspect has a conflated alibi from the girls he was with not knowing what he did when he was alone without him.

  • Dawg
    Dawg Tenn
    I must say, it’s obvious that Skip is about four levels higher than Grey Hughes. Entertaining and a breath of fresh air.

    I must say, it’s obvious that Skip is about four levels higher than Grey Hughes.

    Entertaining and a breath of fresh air.

  • Gina
    Gina London
    @lemon @scarlet - I could not agree more. Nic comes on and says he’s not on here to discuss suspects and literally does just that. Case in point - he said last time that his suspect was currently in jail. The one through line in this debate is everyone has asked “skip” what his credentials are and consistently refuses, then says “you can verify this from my Reddit posts” - so basically the bar now set by TGC for expert guests is now “Reddittor” ? Please. I’m from the UK too and once a crowd beat up a Paediatrician because they mistakenly thought it meant he was a paedophile. You are promoting mob mentality here - after all not everyone you’ve named can be BG. I agree I hope CN and this new guy do sue you

    @lemon @scarlet - I could not agree more. Nic comes on and says he’s not on here to discuss suspects and literally does just that. Case in point - he said last time that his suspect was currently in jail.

    The one through line in this debate is everyone has asked “skip” what his credentials are and consistently refuses, then says “you can verify this from my Reddit posts” - so basically the bar now set by TGC for expert guests is now “Reddittor” ? Please.

    I’m from the UK too and once a crowd beat up a Paediatrician because they mistakenly thought it meant he was a paedophile. You are promoting mob mentality here - after all not everyone you’ve named can be BG. I agree I hope CN and this new guy do sue you

  • Brad
    Brad AZ
    @Skip, If you had to posit how many folks are involved here with your theory, i.e. including this suspect and those related/associated with him, how many people know that there's something fishy (e.g. family/fiancé/false alibi providers), or more than meets the eye with this suspect. Sorry for this poorly worded question. Even if there's someone that may inadvertently turning a blind eye?

    @Skip,
    If you had to posit how many folks are involved here with your theory, i.e. including this suspect and those related/associated with him, how many people know that there's something fishy (e.g. family/fiancé/false alibi providers), or more than meets the eye with this suspect. Sorry for this poorly worded question. Even if there's someone that may inadvertently turning a blind eye?

  • Brad
    Brad Phoenix Suns!
    @ Skip, I don't think it was directly addressed in the episodes, but are you able to speculate on what degree of premeditation (if any) would your theory would have required on the part of your suspect? Thank you.

    @ Skip,
    I don't think it was directly addressed in the episodes, but are you able to speculate on what degree of premeditation (if any) would your theory would have required on the part of your suspect?

    Thank you.

  • Chris Paul
    Chris Paul Phoenix
    @Skip, Do you have any other thoughts on the alibi that "I was with my mistress?" I personally find it odd for a tryst.

    @Skip,
    Do you have any other thoughts on the alibi that "I was with my mistress?" I personally find it odd for a tryst.

  • Big Dodge
    Big Dodge Ozark, AR
    This case ranks with WM3 to me. Delphi I do believe will be solved soon and I hope for the family it will be. Great job guys presenting this case so well.

    This case ranks with WM3 to me. Delphi I do believe will be solved soon and I hope for the family it will be. Great job guys presenting this case so well.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Mark Q (Pasadena)- That's a very interesting theory. There was a rumor that he was "unaccounted for" for 45 minutes around the time of the murders.

    @Mark Q (Pasadena)-

    That's a very interesting theory. There was a rumor that he was "unaccounted for" for 45 minutes around the time of the murders.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Dawg (TN)- Thanks Dawg!

    @Dawg (TN)-

    Thanks Dawg!

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Brad (AZ)- I believe there a at least a few who suspect this individual. Also... I definitely think that he was passed info inadvertently.

    @Brad (AZ)-

    I believe there a at least a few who suspect this individual. Also... I definitely think that he was passed info inadvertently.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Chris Paul(Phoenix)- I find it odd that he initially said it was his girlfriend... then changed it to another female.

    @Chris Paul(Phoenix)-

    I find it odd that he initially said it was his girlfriend... then changed it to another female.

  • IthinkIknow
    IthinkIknow Parts Unknown
    If DP sues Skip and/or TCG for defamation, that will result in near certainty about his involvement. Truth is an absolute defense. Active litigation means that discovery is available. So, DP could be deposed. His phone records could be subpoenaed. Etc. Etc. A murderer is stupid if he sues someone for claiming he murders. It just opens himself up for litigation that proves he did it. However, some people are stupid enough to sue even when they are guilty. I'll be happy to represent Nic and the Captain if it happens. I'll just have to get licensed in the jurisdiction where it happens. . . .

    If DP sues Skip and/or TCG for defamation, that will result in near certainty about his involvement. Truth is an absolute defense. Active litigation means that discovery is available. So, DP could be deposed. His phone records could be subpoenaed. Etc. Etc.

    A murderer is stupid if he sues someone for claiming he murders. It just opens himself up for litigation that proves he did it. However, some people are stupid enough to sue even when they are guilty. I'll be happy to represent Nic and the Captain if it happens. I'll just have to get licensed in the jurisdiction where it happens. . . .

  • JWill
    JWill TN
    Nick~ Why is this current POI receiving more support for his privacy than any others mentioned in 4 years?

    Nick~
    Why is this current POI receiving more support for his privacy than any others mentioned in 4 years?

  • Jess
    Jess Parts Unknown
    @Skip Interesting to know you’ve explored that option (covering for someone or QP). I’ve just heard some actual audio of DP and I’m even more convinced it’s him. I also see he’s now ‘single’ on his FB profile so hopefully it will free up SE to tell LE what she suspects (because how could she not?!). Here’s hoping for a breakthrough imminently.

    @Skip
    Interesting to know you’ve explored that option (covering for someone or QP).

    I’ve just heard some actual audio of DP and I’m even more convinced it’s him. I also see he’s now ‘single’ on his FB profile so hopefully it will free up SE to tell LE what she suspects (because how could she not?!). Here’s hoping for a breakthrough imminently.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ JWill - I'm sorry I don't understand the question. Could you post again? Thanks Nic

    @ JWill - I'm sorry I don't understand the question. Could you post again?
    Thanks Nic

  • Amber
    Amber
    @Skip I think maybe Chris Paul means that this alleged tryst between DP and the female is odd in that it's odd someone cheating on their fiancé in a very small town would go to a place he's likely to be seen by folks that know him. Rumors are like wildfire in a town as small as Delphi. @Chris Paul, correct me if I'm wrong.

    @Skip
    I think maybe Chris Paul means that this alleged tryst between DP and the female is odd in that it's odd someone cheating on their fiancé in a very small town would go to a place he's likely to be seen by folks that know him. Rumors are like wildfire in a town as small as Delphi.
    @Chris Paul, correct me if I'm wrong.

  • Lauren
    Lauren Canada
    Is it possible that the girls were abducted somewhere in between 2:07 and say ~2:45 from the bridge. Then DP & female arrived together or met near bridge (DP ~3 pm). DP & female did not see the girls or BG at this time because BG had already lead the girls down the hill, and towards or even across the creek (it is only about 100 m away). FSG came along and heard the couple fighting shortly thereafter (if the couple was caught up in their fight, they may have missed any noises associated with the crime. FSG and DG then crossed paths around 3:15-3:20 pm, and then Cheyenne arrived, walked to the bridge and saw DP & female (maybe this female was even Cheryl?? As she supposedly arrived around 2:30 - or perhaps Cheryl was waiting for Cheyenne somewhere else). Is it possible Cheyenne then left the bridge area (with or without Cheryl), and then DP saw BG on return from the crime at some point closer to or after 4 pm? This would give BG perhaps an hour or more to commit the crime. One of many questions I have is about "arrival times" particularly for DP & female, Cheyenne and Cheryl. Are these reported times at the Mear lot, or the bridge? Obviously we have to take times reported with a grain of salt - human memory is extremely fallible. Like you, I have spent some time looking at the BG video, and looked at pics of DP - not an ideal comparison, but I just don't see these people being the same person. I am very curious about DP's voice. Any samples of it available? I also have a hard time digesting that DP, if the perpetrator, would come forward solely because he heard there was a sketch, and figured he was seen. Sketches are generally pretty weak, memories fade with time (also the issue of the scarf - if he were the perpetrator, he had a scarf and was likely covering his face??)....it seems like a risk not worth the potential benefit. I am not super familiar with this case, so I am probably missing key facts. I am hoping someone can set me straight, if I am totally off base.

    Is it possible that the girls were abducted somewhere in between 2:07 and say ~2:45 from the bridge. Then DP & female arrived together or met near bridge (DP ~3 pm). DP & female did not see the girls or BG at this time because BG had already lead the girls down the hill, and towards or even across the creek (it is only about 100 m away). FSG came along and heard the couple fighting shortly thereafter (if the couple was caught up in their fight, they may have missed any noises associated with the crime. FSG and DG then crossed paths around 3:15-3:20 pm, and then Cheyenne arrived, walked to the bridge and saw DP & female (maybe this female was even Cheryl?? As she supposedly arrived around 2:30 - or perhaps Cheryl was waiting for Cheyenne somewhere else). Is it possible Cheyenne then left the bridge area (with or without Cheryl), and then DP saw BG on return from the crime at some point closer to or after 4 pm? This would give BG perhaps an hour or more to commit the crime.

    One of many questions I have is about "arrival times" particularly for DP & female, Cheyenne and Cheryl. Are these reported times at the Mear lot, or the bridge? Obviously we have to take times reported with a grain of salt - human memory is extremely fallible.

    Like you, I have spent some time looking at the BG video, and looked at pics of DP - not an ideal comparison, but I just don't see these people being the same person.

    I am very curious about DP's voice. Any samples of it available?

    I also have a hard time digesting that DP, if the perpetrator, would come forward solely because he heard there was a sketch, and figured he was seen. Sketches are generally pretty weak, memories fade with time (also the issue of the scarf - if he were the perpetrator, he had a scarf and was likely covering his face??)....it seems like a risk not worth the potential benefit.

    I am not super familiar with this case, so I am probably missing key facts. I am hoping someone can set me straight, if I am totally off base.

  • Jen
    Jen OH
    Hi Skip, I really enjoyed your interview on TCG and also on RCG with Faceman. How LE handled the two sketches makes sense to me with the DP theory. I couldn't figure out why LE would not just be clearer on the first release sketch. Their initial response of "the first sketch is now secondary" make so much sense now. If the 16 year old, DP, and a sketch artist made the composite together, ofcourse there is going to be a little if DP in there because the 16 year did see him. So regardless of DP trying to steer the sketch incorrectly, there is some.of the 16 years old observations in that sketch. It's also explains why Carter (I think?) said that the killer will end up looking like a mis of the two sketches. Wow! My second comment is a question. If Cheyenne wasn't at the trails that day, why did she post a picture of the bridge that day? As Nic said, the murders at that time were a non event....so how would C have the forsight to post the picture if DP didn't know he needed her help with an alibi yet? This is one of the things I have been mulling over. Are you saying she didn't post it on SM and all she had for proof was a time stamp that could be easily faked? I guess I am assuming that someone verified that she DID post it on SM. Any clarification would be great. Thank you!

    Hi Skip,

    I really enjoyed your interview on TCG and also on RCG with Faceman.

    How LE handled the two sketches makes sense to me with the DP theory. I couldn't figure out why LE would not just be clearer on the first release sketch. Their initial response of "the first sketch is now secondary" make so much sense now. If the 16 year old, DP, and a sketch artist made the composite together, ofcourse there is going to be a little if DP in there because the 16 year did see him. So regardless of DP trying to steer the sketch incorrectly, there is some.of the 16 years old observations in that sketch. It's also explains why Carter (I think?) said that the killer will end up looking like a mis of the two sketches. Wow!

    My second comment is a question. If Cheyenne wasn't at the trails that day, why did she post a picture of the bridge that day? As Nic said, the murders at that time were a non event....so how would C have the forsight to post the picture if DP didn't know he needed her help with an alibi yet? This is one of the things I have been mulling over. Are you saying she didn't post it on SM and all she had for proof was a time stamp that could be easily faked? I guess I am assuming that someone verified that she DID post it on SM. Any clarification would be great.

    Thank you!

  • Cyndi
    Cyndi Michigan
    Jess, how did you hear DP’s voice?

    Jess, how did you hear DP’s voice?

  • JWill
    JWill Tn
    Nick- After following this case on all media platforms, I notice I rarely see anyone ever shaming another theory presented other than this one. Bottom line.., if you suspect DP as the person who commuted these crimes you need to get prepared to get slammed. I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

    Nick-

    After following this case on all media platforms, I notice I rarely see anyone ever shaming another theory presented other than this one. Bottom line.., if you suspect DP as the person who commuted these crimes you need to get prepared to get slammed. I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

  • sacha
    sacha Europe
    Wow! This was a very bold show to make. I have no doubt there was a lot of debate beforehand about whether to go forward with this or not, and I dare say even lawyers were consulted. The positives in my view: There were a lot of good points made. Whether someone agrees or disagrees with the conclusion that DP is the perpetrator, I believe Skip and the hosts rightly brought up questions that require answering (ex. possibly relying too heavily on one person's account and so releasing an artist's impression which could not be corroborated and ended us potentially doing more harm than good--how many people may still think the originally circulated sketch is the only one which exists?). It applies renewed pressure on the authorities to address unresolved issues in the case and maintains the profile of the case. Personally speaking, I cannot shake the suspicion that mistakes, some very significant if hopefully not catastrophic, have been made by law enforcement. The last press conference smacked of desperation to 'shake the guy out' as it seemed like law enforcement had nothing else. Sometimes, first impressions can be the most instructive, and in this case it is hard not to scratch your head and wonder how on earth could this guy still not be identified despite the audio, the video, the day and time of the incident, the unfrequently visited location in a small town, etc. Something feels off about it. Skip was rightly held to task about supporting some of the weaker assertions in his theory, such as that Chayenne was not there. Nobody can be in any doubt about the desire of the TCG team to get this case solved and the murderer to be brought to justice. There are a lot of other True Crime YouTubers who are being very hypocritical about this. They claim to be taking the morale high ground by saying this series of shows was clickbait, but these same 'professionals' have no compunction to have regular, sometimes weekly, phone in shows encouraging people to share the most bizarre and unsubstantiated theories for all to hear. The negatives in my view: To focus on one individual could mean that people stop considering others. You're either very right in your conclusion or totally wrong. After going all-in on one suspect, It is going to be hard for TCG to propose an alternative person in future with any authority. I think the show could have achieved much of what it wanted to do by highlighting inconsistencies in the case, the accounts and investigation without declaring 'this is the guy'. The show would have benefited from a discussion at the end, without Skip, to evaluate and rank the better and weaker parts of what he'd advocated. If I was in Chayenne or DP's shoes, I'd be furious, especially if Skip had got his facts and theories very, very wrong. The show could at the very least offered them a right of reply. Perhaps they had, but this was not mentioned. There is always a danger that in publicising the holes in someone's alibi and the things which point to them being the culprit and accomplice, you are feeding them information on where to focus their cover-up efforts.

    Wow! This was a very bold show to make. I have no doubt there was a lot of debate beforehand about whether to go forward with this or not, and I dare say even lawyers were consulted.

    The positives in my view:
    There were a lot of good points made. Whether someone agrees or disagrees with the conclusion that DP is the perpetrator, I believe Skip and the hosts rightly brought up questions that require answering (ex. possibly relying too heavily on one person's account and so releasing an artist's impression which could not be corroborated and ended us potentially doing more harm than good--how many people may still think the originally circulated sketch is the only one which exists?).
    It applies renewed pressure on the authorities to address unresolved issues in the case and maintains the profile of the case. Personally speaking, I cannot shake the suspicion that mistakes, some very significant if hopefully not catastrophic, have been made by law enforcement. The last press conference smacked of desperation to 'shake the guy out' as it seemed like law enforcement had nothing else. Sometimes, first impressions can be the most instructive, and in this case it is hard not to scratch your head and wonder how on earth could this guy still not be identified despite the audio, the video, the day and time of the incident, the unfrequently visited location in a small town, etc. Something feels off about it.
    Skip was rightly held to task about supporting some of the weaker assertions in his theory, such as that Chayenne was not there.
    Nobody can be in any doubt about the desire of the TCG team to get this case solved and the murderer to be brought to justice.
    There are a lot of other True Crime YouTubers who are being very hypocritical about this. They claim to be taking the morale high ground by saying this series of shows was clickbait, but these same 'professionals' have no compunction to have regular, sometimes weekly, phone in shows encouraging people to share the most bizarre and unsubstantiated theories for all to hear.

    The negatives in my view:
    To focus on one individual could mean that people stop considering others. You're either very right in your conclusion or totally wrong.
    After going all-in on one suspect, It is going to be hard for TCG to propose an alternative person in future with any authority.
    I think the show could have achieved much of what it wanted to do by highlighting inconsistencies in the case, the accounts and investigation without declaring 'this is the guy'.
    The show would have benefited from a discussion at the end, without Skip, to evaluate and rank the better and weaker parts of what he'd advocated.
    If I was in Chayenne or DP's shoes, I'd be furious, especially if Skip had got his facts and theories very, very wrong. The show could at the very least offered them a right of reply. Perhaps they had, but this was not mentioned.
    There is always a danger that in publicising the holes in someone's alibi and the things which point to them being the culprit and accomplice, you are feeding them information on where to focus their cover-up efforts.

  • Daniel Cardona
    Daniel Cardona Montreal
    There is an Anthony Greeno’s video in which DP confesses to Greeno to have murder A&L. Then, he quickly retracts and says that A&L were killed by a girl (JA) and that he killed JA. It turns out that JA is actualky alive. Weird stuff. The video’s link is here: https://youtu.be/da0hfg933hU

    There is an Anthony Greeno’s video in which DP confesses to Greeno to have murder A&L. Then, he quickly retracts and says that A&L were killed by a girl (JA) and that he killed JA.

    It turns out that JA is actualky alive.
    Weird stuff.

    The video’s link is here: https://youtu.be/da0hfg933hU

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    H I Daniel - I believe that is a different "DP" - that has been an issue with this case. There are two DP's that have both inserted themselves into the investigation. But yes, weird stuff! Cheers Nic

    H I Daniel - I believe that is a different "DP" - that has been an issue with this case. There are two DP's that have both inserted themselves into the investigation. But yes, weird stuff!
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi JWill - Thanks for posting. You are exactly right! Putting out these shows I did expect to get slammed both personally and the show get slammed even more so. I am happy to share any thoughts and answer any of your questions. Please post them and I'll give them a go my friend. In regards to this theory though I don't think it rang through on the show... this is Skip's theory and not mine. It was only after discussing with him on mic by the way - the only discussion Skip and I have ever had is the one you have heard - mics on and tape rolling. I found Skip's theory to be interesting enough and plausible enough that I thought this should be on OTR or TCG. We decided together (Captain and Nic) to release the shows on TCG. But yes please I would like some questions if you have them. Thanks Nic

    Hi JWill - Thanks for posting. You are exactly right! Putting out these shows I did expect to get slammed both personally and the show get slammed even more so. I am happy to share any thoughts and answer any of your questions. Please post them and I'll give them a go my friend. In regards to this theory though I don't think it rang through on the show... this is Skip's theory and not mine. It was only after discussing with him on mic by the way - the only discussion Skip and I have ever had is the one you have heard - mics on and tape rolling. I found Skip's theory to be interesting enough and plausible enough that I thought this should be on OTR or TCG. We decided together (Captain and Nic) to release the shows on TCG. But yes please I would like some questions if you have them.
    Thanks Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Lauren, Thank you SOOOOO much for posting this. I could not agree more and I was trying to not poke holes in Skip's theory I insisted on being on the call to be the one to remind everyone of the facts of the case as we went through Skip's theory. This was not for the sake of helping or hurting the theory - it was simply for the sake of the FACTS of the case. Here we have been told many facts about the case you just have to piece them together and in many, many theories presented on the case the person with the theory has just flat out ignored some of the facts that we do have and I was not going to let that happen on TCG. Please everyone read Lauren from Canada's post. Cheers to you and everyone keep the good stuff coming! Nic

    @ Lauren,
    Thank you SOOOOO much for posting this. I could not agree more and I was trying to not poke holes in Skip's theory I insisted on being on the call to be the one to remind everyone of the facts of the case as we went through Skip's theory. This was not for the sake of helping or hurting the theory - it was simply for the sake of the FACTS of the case. Here we have been told many facts about the case you just have to piece them together and in many, many theories presented on the case the person with the theory has just flat out ignored some of the facts that we do have and I was not going to let that happen on TCG. Please everyone read Lauren from Canada's post.
    Cheers to you and everyone keep the good stuff coming!
    Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Sacha, Thank you for the post and I appreciate the break down you put together. Very nicely done! Again just a quick reminder this is Skip's theory - not Nic's. The two best theories that I have - 1 has been stated by me multiple times on TCG and OTR which does not align with Skip's theory. The second theory involves a specific person and I have not discussed this theory on mic or in any typed form anywhere, ever. If my feelings about that change, then I'll present that theory in some form. We are not asking that everyone believe everything we say but when it comes to the Delphi case we are simply saying we are in this for however long it takes and we only ask that you come along for the ride to seeing this thing through and all the bumps along the way that comes with it. cheers Nic

    Hi Sacha,

    Thank you for the post and I appreciate the break down you put together. Very nicely done! Again just a quick reminder this is Skip's theory - not Nic's. The two best theories that I have - 1 has been stated by me multiple times on TCG and OTR which does not align with Skip's theory. The second theory involves a specific person and I have not discussed this theory on mic or in any typed form anywhere, ever. If my feelings about that change, then I'll present that theory in some form. We are not asking that everyone believe everything we say but when it comes to the Delphi case we are simply saying we are in this for however long it takes and we only ask that you come along for the ride to seeing this thing through and all the bumps along the way that comes with it.
    cheers Nic

  • PRIYA
    PRIYA OR
    Has the Geo cashing theory been ruled out? Can you use Geo targeted ads? Is the killer using his real identity online or an alias based on profile? Can they plant a "fact" in the department to flush him out?

    Has the Geo cashing theory been ruled out?
    Can you use Geo targeted ads?
    Is the killer using his real identity online or an alias based on profile?
    Can they plant a "fact" in the department to flush him out?

  • PRIYA
    PRIYA Cave junction or
    Did you say you were sued by a town?

    Did you say you were sued by a town?

  • Jess
    Jess Parts Unknown
    @Cyndi DP’s fiancé has public videos on her FB profile with DP talking in them. There are at least 2 or 3 I have watched - feels intrusive but it’s there to see.

    @Cyndi
    DP’s fiancé has public videos on her FB profile with DP talking in them. There are at least 2 or 3 I have watched - feels intrusive but it’s there to see.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Lauren (Canad)- Yes. The reported times are for the Mears lot.

    @Lauren (Canad)-

    Yes. The reported times are for the Mears lot.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Jen (Ohio)- Thanks Jen. There is one thing that has been taken out of context slightly. The core of the theory is that DP mislead LE. Contributing to the 1st sketch is secondary to that. Also... Cheyenne has had numerous accounts of her events that day. I haven't found a whole that said to be true. So... considering the fact that no one saw her there... I think it's possible she wasn't there.

    @Jen (Ohio)-

    Thanks Jen.

    There is one thing that has been taken out of context slightly. The core of the theory is that DP mislead LE. Contributing to the 1st sketch is secondary to that.

    Also... Cheyenne has had numerous accounts of her events that day. I haven't found a whole that said to be true. So... considering the fact that no one saw her there... I think it's possible she wasn't there.

  • Skip Jansen
    Skip Jansen
    @Sacha (Europe)- Thank you for such a well thought out comment.

    @Sacha (Europe)-

    Thank you for such a well thought out comment.

  • Ed
    Ed Asia
    First timer here. Nice theory Skip - i believe it (after PB (orange truck, lost keys)is eliminated). So there are 2 DP's in Delphi. The one in Greano's 2018 (video mentioned above) has some mental problems. If I am not mistaken, while reading the comments above, i thought the "real" DP also had some drug/mental issues. I saw the Greeno video today (only half). And in one of the latest comments (August 2021) in Greano's Youtube video, someone asks Greano if the DP in the video is the same DP on whom the latest buzz, centers. Greano responds that he is the same guy and he has proof. He ask the commenter to email him for the proof. ????? One more thing, does/did the DP in Greano's video reside (or resided) in 2018, very close to the Monon Bridge?

    First timer here. Nice theory Skip - i believe it (after PB (orange truck, lost keys)is eliminated). So there are 2 DP's in Delphi. The one in Greano's 2018 (video mentioned above) has some mental problems. If I am not mistaken, while reading the comments above, i thought the "real" DP also had some drug/mental issues. I saw the Greeno video today (only half). And in one of the latest comments (August 2021) in Greano's Youtube video, someone asks Greano if the DP in the video is the same DP on whom the latest buzz, centers. Greano responds that he is the same guy and he has proof. He ask the commenter to email him for the proof. ????? One more thing, does/did the DP in Greano's video reside (or resided) in 2018, very close to the Monon Bridge?

  • Me
    Me Finger Lakes
    Hi: few things real quick & I apologize if this has all already been said? 1. Miranda warnings are of ZERO concern here for a "witness" now turned potential "PIO"-- ?witnesses are still deposed & give sworn statements that they are locked into regardless of their "status" at the time. Fair warning is given about the falsifying of a statement/police report. Blah blah blah. 100% admissible. 2. It is a FAR REACH (seriously, no offense) from perhaps maybe designing a "county website" to thinking by any stretch of the imagination that some super smart "IT GUY" might be reading or having internal access to law enforcement sensitive info. It CANNOT happen. MAYBE internal emails if he is a sociopath that planned & premeditated this his senior year & put in a back door???? Ehhhh. Doubtful- big-time. In terms of access to the police reporting software/programs? NOPE. NEVER. The authentication & passwords for such access is USER specific. Most require you to change/update your pass very often as well. As for the programs/software that DON'T require pass updates on the reg? That might allow you to keep the same username/pass for eternity? He'd probably have had to premeditate this 4-5 yrs b4 it happened & install spyware or malware (keystroke) & target specific users? There's literally no way he'd have that kind of access/authentication tho at his HS level. Creating a "website" (from what I understand) is internet nerd 101 for these smart kids. 3. I'm SUPER liking this kid for bg tho. Holy hell!! 4. I figured out the "prominent family" angle as it pertains to his uncle since these 3 eps aired. What does daddy do btw? 5. GF fiance---😬 better wake TF up & speak up soon- she's about to MARRY HIM!! ug. GOOD CALL on the WHY DOES SHE NOT KNOW SHE DESERVES SO MUCH BETTER than this??comment CAPTAIN! She's buying his story hook (family LOVES TO FISH), line (are there trout in that water? Is that why he's so familiar?) & sinker....(he's about to SINK HER ASZ into marriage. 6. BARF!!! 7. As alwayyyyyys... I love you guys. SOLID

    Hi: few things real quick & I apologize if this has all already been said?
    1. Miranda warnings are of ZERO concern here for a "witness" now turned potential "PIO"-- ?witnesses are still deposed & give sworn statements that they are locked into regardless of their "status" at the time. Fair warning is given about the falsifying of a statement/police report. Blah blah blah. 100% admissible.
    2. It is a FAR REACH (seriously, no offense) from perhaps maybe designing a "county website" to thinking by any stretch of the imagination that some super smart "IT GUY" might be reading or having internal access to law enforcement sensitive info. It CANNOT happen. MAYBE internal emails if he is a sociopath that planned & premeditated this his senior year & put in a back door???? Ehhhh. Doubtful- big-time. In terms of access to the police reporting software/programs? NOPE. NEVER. The authentication & passwords for such access is USER specific. Most require you to change/update your pass very often as well.
    As for the programs/software that DON'T require pass updates on the reg? That might allow you to keep the same username/pass for eternity? He'd probably have had to premeditate this 4-5 yrs b4 it happened & install spyware or malware (keystroke) & target specific users? There's literally no way he'd have that kind of access/authentication tho at his HS level. Creating a "website" (from what I understand) is internet nerd 101 for these smart kids.

    3. I'm SUPER liking this kid for bg tho. Holy hell!!

    4. I figured out the "prominent family" angle as it pertains to his uncle since these 3 eps aired. What does daddy do btw?
    5. GF fiance---😬 better wake TF up & speak up soon- she's about to MARRY HIM!! ug. GOOD CALL on the WHY DOES SHE NOT KNOW SHE DESERVES SO MUCH BETTER than this??comment CAPTAIN!

    She's buying his story hook (family LOVES TO FISH), line (are there trout in that water? Is that why he's so familiar?) & sinker....(he's about to SINK HER ASZ into marriage.
    6. BARF!!!
    7. As alwayyyyyys... I love you guys. SOLID

  • noc·tur·nal 911
    noc·tur·nal 911
    OMG guys! I'm SUPER liking this kid for BG!! Holy hell!! Quick question- I figured out the "prominent family" angle as it pertains to his uncle, but what do mommy & daddy do? His fiancé is about to get a rude awakening if he’s the guy. Makes me feel awful that she’s buying his I didn’t mean to cheat? story hook (his family LOVES TO FISH), line (are there trout in Deer Creek is THAT why he's so familiar area?) & sinker. Ug. Real quick- apologies if already mentioned? About to read all the comments above- but Absence of miranda warnings are of no concern here for a "witness" now turned potential "PIO". Witnesses give sworn depositions that they sign/are locked into regardless of their "status" at the time. Much warning is also given about the falsifying of a statement. Also, IMO it’s kind of a reach (seriously, no offense) thinking that him designing a "county website" years ago might somehow now give him internal access to law enforcement sensitive info. MAYBE he could get to internal emails? If he premeditated this & put in a back door in for fun five+ years ago, but???? ehhhh doubtful IMO. In terms of access to the police reporting software/programs/incident reports?? NOPE. NEVER. The authentication & passwords for LE access is USER specific. Even if he was the HEAD I.T. guy that set all new users up with their usernames & initial passwords? The programs prompt users to change your password immediately. Most also require you to change/update your passwords often as well. As for the programs/software that DON'T require pass updates on the regular and might allow you to keep the same password for eternity? Again, he'd had to have premeditated that ages ago & maybe installed spyware/malware/keystroke? I don’t friggin know? & targeted specific users way back when? IDK- I just don’t see him having those kinds of permissions as a senior just designing a website?? As alwayyyyyys guys—GREAT EPISODES!!! I heart ya’ll… xoxo

    OMG guys! I'm SUPER liking this kid for BG!! Holy hell!!
    Quick question- I figured out the "prominent family" angle as it pertains to his uncle, but what do mommy & daddy do? His fiancé is about to get a rude awakening if he’s the guy. Makes me feel awful that she’s buying his I didn’t mean to cheat? story hook (his family LOVES TO FISH), line (are there trout in Deer Creek is THAT why he's so familiar area?) & sinker. Ug.
    Real quick- apologies if already mentioned? About to read all the comments above- but
    Absence of miranda warnings are of no concern here for a "witness" now turned potential "PIO". Witnesses give sworn depositions that they sign/are locked into regardless of their "status" at the time. Much warning is also given about the falsifying of a statement.
    Also, IMO it’s kind of a reach (seriously, no offense) thinking that him designing a "county website" years ago might somehow now give him internal access to law enforcement sensitive info. MAYBE he could get to internal emails? If he premeditated this & put in a back door in for fun five+ years ago, but???? ehhhh doubtful IMO. In terms of access to the police reporting software/programs/incident reports?? NOPE. NEVER. The authentication & passwords for LE access is USER specific. Even if he was the HEAD I.T. guy that set all new users up with their usernames & initial passwords? The programs prompt users to change your password immediately. Most also require you to change/update your passwords often as well. As for the programs/software that DON'T require pass updates on the regular and might allow you to keep the same password for eternity? Again, he'd had to have premeditated that ages ago & maybe installed spyware/malware/keystroke? I don’t friggin know? & targeted specific users way back when? IDK- I just don’t see him having those kinds of permissions as a senior just designing a website??
    As alwayyyyyys guys—GREAT EPISODES!!! I heart ya’ll… xoxo

  • Larr
    Larr Gary In
    I believe the reason people can’t understand why Cheyenne is covering for him is because this was a group killing I don’t think at first it was suppose to but it ended that way I believe that video we see of man on the bridge that’s someone disguised meeting the girls and they are recording it just to be safe because yeah it’s dangerous it was a set up at first just to get back at the ones father for snitching but throngs took a turn and what you hear on that phone Guys Down the hill that’s not BG talking to girls that’s BG talking to Cheyenne and someone else

    I believe the reason people can’t understand why Cheyenne is covering for him is because this was a group killing I don’t think at first it was suppose to but it ended that way I believe that video we see of man on the bridge that’s someone disguised meeting the girls and they are recording it just to be safe because yeah it’s dangerous it was a set up at first just to get back at the ones father for snitching but throngs took a turn and what you hear on that phone Guys Down the hill that’s not BG talking to girls that’s BG talking to Cheyenne and someone else

  • Siobhan
    Siobhan IN
    I have 2 questions. I don't understand what you said about the Miranda Rights, the statements he made as someone being questioned should still be admissible in court. Please explain. Also, is there any chance they can use familial dna in a genealogy database?

    I have 2 questions. I don't understand what you said about the Miranda Rights, the statements he made as someone being questioned should still be admissible in court. Please explain.
    Also, is there any chance they can use familial dna in a genealogy database?

  • Raquelle
    Raquelle New Orleans
    Well I know there are a couple inaccuracies that everybody has over blown, just want to touch on a couple of the uninformed statements that were made in this thread. There is fog in Cheyenne’s picture, there was fog while they were searching, there’s fog in the pictures from that evening so just because there wasn’t fog on the bridge during the Snapchat video, doesn't mean fog didn’t roll in quite quickly. Law enforcement said that they believe what’s stopping them from prosecuting is a false alibi. The only person I can imagine with a flimsy or false alibi is DP. To the commentor who said he didn’t change his story- Yes he did. I don’t care if he didn’t want to be caught cheating, I care that he started off lying. He also didn’t come out right away when he knew the girls were murdered and everybody was looking for tips. He did not come out with his statement until after the sketch was released. This is while he knows the girls, is aware of their families, and knows where they live. He also followed them on social media. DP said he was part of the couple arguing under the bridge, then he said he wasn’t. DP said he left earlier than he did because his phone was tagged there until 315 at the murder scene. Something here is fishy. And the fish has been left out for quite some time. The cops know exactly who did it, they were speaking to him directly at the press conference, and they just need somebody to come forward and expose his ass. I have no clue what he has over anyone to keep them covering for him, but I do know that Cheyenne‘s father or Uncle was in jail with Libby‘s father. I do know that they are connected slightly through the meth community by way of their families. I do think the girls were completely innocent in this. Whether they were killed in retaliation, or because somebody had a grudge – I genuinely believe this was done by younger people, somebody who is physically fit, under 25 years old or approximately there, somebody who is deeply familiar with the area and had grown up there, somebody who was accustomed to hunting and trapping, and somebody with a real mean streak. Just because he’s a cheater and an asshole, doesn’t mean DP is a murderer – but I sure don’t like the way that he has behaved since moment one. If he knew those girls, it was all over their world. There is no way you could’ve not heard about it the moment it happened. Therefore he knew these girls, he knew their families, and yet he didn’t come forward until his alibi was jeopardized. Until people had seen him there until a sketch is done. If you don’t think he’s a killer, he’s at least a selfish piece of shit. Self-serving, aggrandizing, injecting himself in the case, everything with the police say the PG would do. I don’t wanna make presumptions either, but when you look at his facial structure, you look at the way his jaw is formed and the fullness of his cheeks- God could he be that guy on the bridge? I also noticed a lot of his pictures his pants fit poorly. I do think he’s 6 feet or under, and that as a result of having maybe shorter legs and a longer torso that many of his pants slouch the way that BGs did. I think he had a gun in his jacket pocket, and a duffel bag tucked under his jacket. I think despite the girls knowing him, they couldn’t recognize him due to how much covering he was wearing on his face. That should’ve been the first clue and probably would tip Libby off – is that it was an unseasonably warm day in Delphi. They didn’t even need to bring jackets necessarily probably a light breeze, and he was extremely overdressed for the occasion. If his car was parked at CPS, he could takeoff all the extra clothes he was wearing, put them in the duffel bag, and then walk through the woods deeper in the tree line until he reached the freedom bridge or crossed under it back to the parking lot on the other side of the highway. I would assume he would do that to avoid further detection by anyone seeing him on the Bridge. His poor fiancé. They’re still getting married. It’s amazing what women will put up with.

    Well I know there are a couple inaccuracies that everybody has over blown, just want to touch on a couple of the uninformed statements that were made in this thread.

    There is fog in Cheyenne’s picture, there was fog while they were searching, there’s fog in the pictures from that evening so just because there wasn’t fog on the bridge during the Snapchat video, doesn't mean fog didn’t roll in quite quickly.

    Law enforcement said that they believe what’s stopping them from prosecuting is a false alibi. The only person I can imagine with a flimsy or false alibi is DP. To the commentor who said he didn’t change his story- Yes he did. I don’t care if he didn’t want to be caught cheating, I care that he started off lying. He also didn’t come out right away when he knew the girls were murdered and everybody was looking for tips. He did not come out with his statement until after the sketch was released. This is while he knows the girls, is aware of their families, and knows where they live. He also followed them on social media.

    DP said he was part of the couple arguing under the bridge, then he said he wasn’t. DP said he left earlier than he did because his phone was tagged there until 315 at the murder scene. Something here is fishy. And the fish has been left out for quite some time. The cops know exactly who did it, they were speaking to him directly at the press conference, and they just need somebody to come forward and expose his ass. I have no clue what he has over anyone to keep them covering for him, but I do know that Cheyenne‘s father or Uncle was in jail with Libby‘s father. I do know that they are connected slightly through the meth community by way of their families. I do think the girls were completely innocent in this.

    Whether they were killed in retaliation, or because somebody had a grudge – I genuinely believe this was done by younger people, somebody who is physically fit, under 25 years old or approximately there, somebody who is deeply familiar with the area and had grown up there, somebody who was accustomed to hunting and trapping, and somebody with a real mean streak. Just because he’s a cheater and an asshole, doesn’t mean DP is a murderer – but I sure don’t like the way that he has behaved since moment one.

    If he knew those girls, it was all over their world. There is no way you could’ve not heard about it the moment it happened. Therefore he knew these girls, he knew their families, and yet he didn’t come forward until his alibi was jeopardized. Until people had seen him there until a sketch is done. If you don’t think he’s a killer, he’s at least a selfish piece of shit. Self-serving, aggrandizing, injecting himself in the case, everything with the police say the PG would do.

    I don’t wanna make presumptions either, but when you look at his facial structure, you look at the way his jaw is formed and the fullness of his cheeks- God could he be that guy on the bridge?

    I also noticed a lot of his pictures his pants fit poorly. I do think he’s 6 feet or under, and that as a result of having maybe shorter legs and a longer torso that many of his pants slouch the way that BGs did.

    I think he had a gun in his jacket pocket, and a duffel bag tucked under his jacket. I think despite the girls knowing him, they couldn’t recognize him due to how much covering he was wearing on his face. That should’ve been the first clue and probably would tip Libby off – is that it was an unseasonably warm day in Delphi. They didn’t even need to bring jackets necessarily probably a light breeze, and he was extremely overdressed for the occasion.

    If his car was parked at CPS, he could takeoff all the extra clothes he was wearing, put them in the duffel bag, and then walk through the woods deeper in the tree line until he reached the freedom bridge or crossed under it back to the parking lot on the other side of the highway. I would assume he would do that to avoid further detection by anyone seeing him on the Bridge.

    His poor fiancé. They’re still getting married. It’s amazing what women will put up with.

  • Cathy
    Cathy Ohio
    On the podcast Down the Hill, they play the original audio and it is terribly muffled. And then cleaned up. Kelsi states she goes to boyfriend’s and then he goes to work. Then later she states she received the call and her and a male head that way.

    On the podcast Down the Hill, they play the original audio and it is terribly muffled. And then cleaned up. Kelsi states she goes to boyfriend’s and then he goes to work. Then later she states she received the call and her and a male head that way.

  • hd
    hd parts known
    To my mind, Skip's theory is based on confirmation bias, he's convinced himself to the degree that he feels 100% that he has 'solved' the case. How many other supposed prime suspects have been bandied about by podcasters, journo's, amateur sleuths et al. They can't all be right, and i'd bet money that none if them are! There's a true crime obsession that 'the killer' is 'injecting themselves in the case'. But, seriously in real life (not in the movies), this is very rare. Most of the time those injecting themselves into a case, are well meaning members of the public, but sometimes also narcisists, and the mentally ill etc. And with high profile cases there's literally hundreds, if not thousands of people injecting themselves into these cases, to varying degrees.

    To my mind, Skip's theory is based on confirmation bias, he's convinced himself to the degree that he feels 100% that he has 'solved' the case.

    How many other supposed prime suspects have been bandied about by podcasters, journo's, amateur sleuths et al.

    They can't all be right, and i'd bet money that none if them are!

    There's a true crime obsession that 'the killer' is 'injecting themselves in the case'. But, seriously in real life (not in the movies), this is very rare.

    Most of the time those injecting themselves into a case, are well meaning members of the public, but sometimes also narcisists, and the mentally ill etc. And with high profile cases there's literally hundreds, if not thousands of people injecting themselves into these cases, to varying degrees.

  • Gray
    Gray Oz
    What does DP do for a living? I still wonder if BG is a police officer and that may have been how he was able to gain control and order the girls down the hill. Also could explain the difficulty that LE are having closing this one, as a police officer would know how to minimise evidence at the crime scene and hinder investigation. The anger and choice of words that Carter comes out with at the presser hints at it being one of their own, or someone very close. Or indeed "a witness". Close enough that it sounds personal. Also I still wonder what is the relevance of "the Shack". I just re-listened to Down The Hill podcast and around episode 7 or 8 one of the hosts asks why the girls weren't found during searches on the first night, and PSI Doug Carter declines to answer. I wonder where all our favourite POIs were that first evening into the night. Skip's willingness to push a theory did vaguely remind me of Trent Renner, but Skip you sound more informed about your case than Renner and way less presumptuous and annoying. These episodes definitely spiked interest and hopefully rattle someone's cage. I hope everyone is being nice to Kelsi and that all this arm-chair detecting solves without harming the case (or anyone innocent) in any way. Sometimes true crime podcasts give away a little too much information. I hope you all know what you're doing. I admire LE for maintaining their control over information in this active case.

    What does DP do for a living?
    I still wonder if BG is a police officer and that may have been how he was able to gain control and order the girls down the hill. Also could explain the difficulty that LE are having closing this one, as a police officer would know how to minimise evidence at the crime scene and hinder investigation. The anger and choice of words that Carter comes out with at the presser hints at it being one of their own, or someone very close. Or indeed "a witness". Close enough that it sounds personal.
    Also I still wonder what is the relevance of "the Shack".
    I just re-listened to Down The Hill podcast and around episode 7 or 8 one of the hosts asks why the girls weren't found during searches on the first night, and PSI Doug Carter declines to answer. I wonder where all our favourite POIs were that first evening into the night.
    Skip's willingness to push a theory did vaguely remind me of Trent Renner, but Skip you sound more informed about your case than Renner and way less presumptuous and annoying. These episodes definitely spiked interest and hopefully rattle someone's cage.
    I hope everyone is being nice to Kelsi and that all this arm-chair detecting solves without harming the case (or anyone innocent) in any way. Sometimes true crime podcasts give away a little too much information. I hope you all know what you're doing. I admire LE for maintaining their control over information in this active case.

  • Morgan
    Morgan MA
    Random thought popped in my head - probably not too original but what if BG is a classmate or friend's dad? If it's a small community you might recognize a dad and follow their instructions at that age...you also might not know their name but have this innate feeling that they are authority since they are someone's parents.

    Random thought popped in my head - probably not too original but what if BG is a classmate or friend's dad? If it's a small community you might recognize a dad and follow their instructions at that age...you also might not know their name but have this innate feeling that they are authority since they are someone's parents.

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