Glass & Mason ////// 451

25 comments

  • Kell
    Kell AZ
    "Pima," pronounced "peema" (Spanish). Name of a tribe (the Pimahitos). Also a county & community college in Arizona.

    "Pima," pronounced "peema" (Spanish). Name of a tribe (the Pimahitos). Also a county & community college in Arizona.

  • Kell
    Kell AZ
    Sorry, guys, but I think you were running a bit too PC on this one. ANY woman who does ANYTHING having to do with a strip club is engaging in high-risk behavior. By definition, the men who go to those places do not think of women as fully human beings. The murderer(s) could have been horny incels, guys mad because they turned down advances, guys who thought they had a right to "have" them because they were obviously "asking for it" by working in a strip club, etc., etc., ad nauseum. And, we don't know what self-preservation instincts were missing in these women, but they obviously weren't thinking clearly. (Why was one of them happy about having an unplanned baby with no father, let alone husband, in sight? This is not how sane, reasonable women run their lives.) Having anything to do with a strip club is insane. Not just stupid, INSANE. They refused to acknowledge that they were surrounded regularly by mentally unstable men. Who knows who they were willing to open their door for?

    Sorry, guys, but I think you were running a bit too PC on this one. ANY woman who does ANYTHING having to do with a strip club is engaging in high-risk behavior. By definition, the men who go to those places do not think of women as fully human beings. The murderer(s) could have been horny incels, guys mad because they turned down advances, guys who thought they had a right to "have" them because they were obviously "asking for it" by working in a strip club, etc., etc., ad nauseum. And, we don't know what self-preservation instincts were missing in these women, but they obviously weren't thinking clearly. (Why was one of them happy about having an unplanned baby with no father, let alone husband, in sight? This is not how sane, reasonable women run their lives.) Having anything to do with a strip club is insane. Not just stupid, INSANE. They refused to acknowledge that they were surrounded regularly by mentally unstable men. Who knows who they were willing to open their door for?

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Kell, Thank you for "peema" and the post. I don't disagree with you and to add to it there are plenty of jobs especially in the bartending business that come with added risk. I was a bartender full-time for a few years and enjoyed it so much that I continued to bartend part-time for 10 more years. We should be very clear though in regards to some of the information in your post... We do not know for certain that this was an unplanned pregnancy. We do know the father was her current boyfriend and according to the family, there was talk about getting married. Cheers Nic

    Hi Kell,

    Thank you for "peema" and the post. I don't disagree with you and to add to it there are plenty of jobs especially in the bartending business that come with added risk. I was a bartender full-time for a few years and enjoyed it so much that I continued to bartend part-time for 10 more years.
    We should be very clear though in regards to some of the information in your post... We do not know for certain that this was an unplanned pregnancy. We do know the father was her current boyfriend and according to the family, there was talk about getting married.
    Cheers Nic

  • Ashley Verlander
    Ashley Verlander
    It's been 10 years. I can't fathom why they wouldn't release more information at this point. I'm also wondering if they interviewed or looked into any of the contractors working in the house.

    It's been 10 years. I can't fathom why they wouldn't release more information at this point. I'm also wondering if they interviewed or looked into any of the contractors working in the house.

  • Megs
    Megs Pittsburgh
    Did police look into the people who were remodeling the house?

    Did police look into the people who were remodeling the house?

  • Patrick
    Patrick Massachusetts
    Hey Guys, I think that you may have missed a possible theory. You mentioned that their home was being renovated. I believe it may be possible that one or some of the guys working on the home may have taken an interest in these 2 young ladies. This could possibly also explain your thoughts on why the phones were destroyed, i.e. trying to hide someone who may have communicated with one or both of them. Someone working on their home likely would have called or texted, and destroying the phones could be hiding that identifying information. These workers may also have had some way of gaining access to the home, spare key for example, for working when the girls were not home. Or possibly they would have willingly let them in as they recognized them from working in the home.

    Hey Guys,
    I think that you may have missed a possible theory. You mentioned that their home was being renovated. I believe it may be possible that one or some of the guys working on the home may have taken an interest in these 2 young ladies. This could possibly also explain your thoughts on why the phones were destroyed, i.e. trying to hide someone who may have communicated with one or both of them. Someone working on their home likely would have called or texted, and destroying the phones could be hiding that identifying information. These workers may also have had some way of gaining access to the home, spare key for example, for working when the girls were not home. Or possibly they would have willingly let them in as they recognized them from working in the home.

  • Rachel
    Rachel O-H-I-O
    I didn’t finish listening yet but I’m waiting for my Target drive up so I thought I’d pop on and mention my thoughts :) They are similar to the comments above but with a different angle. First of all I don’t believe it was robbery because they were killed by strangulation. Most burglars come armed with something. And if you are armed you don’t strangle people, you use your weapon. The caveat to this is if they came home and surprised the burglar who was already there. If you think you’re robbing an empty house you probably don’t bring a weapon. But then that means that while you were strangling one of them the other waited around until it was her turn to be strangled? No. Or if only one came home and surprised you, then you kill the one witness and get out of dodge. So I don’t buy the burglary angle. I think it was a person known to one of the girls. They let them in. Somewhere in the course of the visit, the violence occurred. If the other girl was home at the time, it would have been necessary to kill her too. But it would have been someone who most likely was close enough to the first victim so that being a line in a room, say a bedroom with the perp, would not be weird. So they are alone, he strangled the first girl, realizes now he has to kill the other girl who is also home because she will obviously discover her friends body and know it was him. Or, true roommate wasn’t home but he made plans with the first Vic via text, so he retrieves her phone to erase the massages and realizes she texted her roommate to tell her she was having company and who it was. So now he has to wait for the roommate to get home, kill her, then destroy both phones. That’s my 222 cents ☺️

    I didn’t finish listening yet but I’m waiting for my Target drive up so I thought I’d pop on and mention my thoughts smile They are similar to the comments above but with a different angle. First of all I don’t believe it was robbery because they were killed by strangulation. Most burglars come armed with something. And if you are armed you don’t strangle people, you use your weapon. The caveat to this is if they came home and surprised the burglar who was already there. If you think you’re robbing an empty house you probably don’t bring a weapon. But then that means that while you were strangling one of them the other waited around until it was her turn to be strangled? No. Or if only one came home and surprised you, then you kill the one witness and get out of dodge. So I don’t buy the burglary angle. I think it was a person known to one of the girls. They let them in. Somewhere in the course of the visit, the violence occurred. If the other girl was home at the time, it would have been necessary to kill her too. But it would have been someone who most likely was close enough to the first victim so that being a line in a room, say a bedroom with the perp, would not be weird. So they are alone, he strangled the first girl, realizes now he has to kill the other girl who is also home because she will obviously discover her friends body and know it was him. Or, true roommate wasn’t home but he made plans with the first Vic via text, so he retrieves her phone to erase the massages and realizes she texted her roommate to tell her she was having company and who it was. So now he has to wait for the roommate to get home, kill her, then destroy both phones. That’s my 222 cents ☺️

  • Joe Martinez
    Joe Martinez
    She was in danger of losing her house and then suddenly came up with the money. My thought is that she either borrowed money from someone shady at the “Gentlemen’s Establishment” and couldn’t pay it back or maybe started working for a drug dealer and got caught up in something. Maybe she was a courier (hence the people coming and going) and someone decided they wanted the drugs but didn’t want to pay so they killed them.

    She was in danger of losing her house and then suddenly came up with the money. My thought is that she either borrowed money from someone shady at the “Gentlemen’s Establishment” and couldn’t pay it back or maybe started working for a drug dealer and got caught up in something. Maybe she was a courier (hence the people coming and going) and someone decided they wanted the drugs but didn’t want to pay so they killed them.

  • Brian
    Brian California
    I want to add another theory. 2011 was in the heyday of girls picking up extra cash by working as prostitutes on Backpage and Craigslist. I'm not being judgmental here, it was really common. I would venture to say there a many thousands of women who are doctors/lawyers/engineers today who made extra money working Backpage when they were in college. It would be highly likely that two girls working in a strip club, even as bartenders, might be picking up extra money this way. Let me make a few points: 1. the neighbors said they had lots of "friends" coming and going. 2. The police said there was no "useful DNA". Maybe that means there was way too much DNA?, 3. She was in financial trouble on her house, then she made enough money to get out of trouble and even start renovating. They would have been making about $100 for a 1/2 hour that often only took 15 minutes, 4. They had an "event" they were supposed to work that day. That doesn't mean they were working as bartenders. 5. The police said they couldn't rule out robbery. Maybe the killer stole their computer? 6. They boiled the phones, and the text messages weren't fruitful. Again, maybe they were using the phone to access the web anonymously. This the sort of thing two girls could be into and nobody in their family or friends group would know about it. It's illegal and the system was set up to keep both the girl and her client anonymous. I participated in many good times with totally normal girls who were often very open that they had normal day jobs and were doing it for money and adventure and even because they liked all the sex. It wasn't unusual for them to work out of their homes. They never seemed to believe that it was dangerous.

    I want to add another theory. 2011 was in the heyday of girls picking up extra cash by working as prostitutes on Backpage and Craigslist. I'm not being judgmental here, it was really common. I would venture to say there a many thousands of women who are doctors/lawyers/engineers today who made extra money working Backpage when they were in college. It would be highly likely that two girls working in a strip club, even as bartenders, might be picking up extra money this way. Let me make a few points: 1. the neighbors said they had lots of "friends" coming and going. 2. The police said there was no "useful DNA". Maybe that means there was way too much DNA?, 3. She was in financial trouble on her house, then she made enough money to get out of trouble and even start renovating. They would have been making about $100 for a 1/2 hour that often only took 15 minutes, 4. They had an "event" they were supposed to work that day. That doesn't mean they were working as bartenders. 5. The police said they couldn't rule out robbery. Maybe the killer stole their computer? 6. They boiled the phones, and the text messages weren't fruitful. Again, maybe they were using the phone to access the web anonymously.

    This the sort of thing two girls could be into and nobody in their family or friends group would know about it. It's illegal and the system was set up to keep both the girl and her client anonymous. I participated in many good times with totally normal girls who were often very open that they had normal day jobs and were doing it for money and adventure and even because they liked all the sex. It wasn't unusual for them to work out of their homes. They never seemed to believe that it was dangerous.

  • John
    John Connecticut
    I am confused on one point ... the phone(s) being destroyed. I must have missed it, in the episode ... but some of the above comments seem to suggest that the phones of the victims were destroyed. So ... my question ... even if the physical phones were destroyed, does that really even matter? Wouldn't all of the same information (calls, texts, messages, etc.) still be accessible by the police through the phone company? What good would it do, to physically destroy the phones ... if all the same info is still available anyway through the phone company records? Thanks.

    I am confused on one point ... the phone(s) being destroyed. I must have missed it, in the episode ... but some of the above comments seem to suggest that the phones of the victims were destroyed. So ... my question ... even if the physical phones were destroyed, does that really even matter? Wouldn't all of the same information (calls, texts, messages, etc.) still be accessible by the police through the phone company? What good would it do, to physically destroy the phones ... if all the same info is still available anyway through the phone company records? Thanks.

  • April
    April Michigan
    I waited tables in strip clubs in my early 20s while I was living alone with my young child. The tips were amazing and allowed me to go to school while supporting my kid, but something like this happening was a constant fear of mine. While I've run into random creeps at many jobs I've had, the clubs are a whole other level, and the nature of the business begets hurt/angry male egos. I would not be surprised if that is the connection in this case, although there isn't enough information available to do anything but surmise at this point.

    I waited tables in strip clubs in my early 20s while I was living alone with my young child. The tips were amazing and allowed me to go to school while supporting my kid, but something like this happening was a constant fear of mine. While I've run into random creeps at many jobs I've had, the clubs are a whole other level, and the nature of the business begets hurt/angry male egos. I would not be surprised if that is the connection in this case, although there isn't enough information available to do anything but surmise at this point.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @John - yes, this is a good question. The phones were placed in a pot of water and left in the sink. So regardless of the result, the prep attempted to destroy the phones. Again this is important regardless of the result. We know of communications that the woman had that evening with others but because police ar of the stance to not release info - it's unclear if they gained that knowledge by talking with others, checking others phone or is they got the info from phone records and/or the cloud or what have you. It's important because whoever the perp or perps are it was important to them to destroy the phones. So this suggests there was communication between victim and perp on these phones or information that would create leads. I highly suspect that more was done to these phones before placing them in water. I also believe that the killer(s) is someone known to the women and known quite well. I think the contractor angle is an interesting one and one that the Captain and I spoke about off-mic but I think that is barking up the wrong tree. I think the women were set up. I think someone used the - working an event that night - to make sure both would be home. This was done because the killer is in fact so close to the victims - that they knew if I kill one the other will point their finger directly at me and therefore he planned to kill both. This is a sad case and someone out there other than the perp knows something important. It's overdue for them to come forward. - Nic

    @John - yes, this is a good question. The phones were placed in a pot of water and left in the sink. So regardless of the result, the prep attempted to destroy the phones. Again this is important regardless of the result. We know of communications that the woman had that evening with others but because police ar of the stance to not release info - it's unclear if they gained that knowledge by talking with others, checking others phone or is they got the info from phone records and/or the cloud or what have you. It's important because whoever the perp or perps are it was important to them to destroy the phones. So this suggests there was communication between victim and perp on these phones or information that would create leads. I highly suspect that more was done to these phones before placing them in water. I also believe that the killer(s) is someone known to the women and known quite well. I think the contractor angle is an interesting one and one that the Captain and I spoke about off-mic but I think that is barking up the wrong tree. I think the women were set up. I think someone used the - working an event that night - to make sure both would be home. This was done because the killer is in fact so close to the victims - that they knew if I kill one the other will point their finger directly at me and therefore he planned to kill both.
    This is a sad case and someone out there other than the perp knows something important. It's overdue for them to come forward. - Nic

  • Raerae
    Raerae Arizona
    I worked with both of these girls at the time of their murders. Melissa did not have a mean bone in her body nor did she have anybody in this entire world that would ever want to be an enemy of hers. Unfortunately I believe that she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I have bartended in the strip clubs with them and have continued for the past 23 years. There may be some nights that drama happens, but that is why security is there. To ensure that we are safe, to assure that they walk us through our cars at the end of the night. We don't put ourselves in a dangerous position just for money. And it's not really even a dangerous position. Not everybody that goes in there is a pig. People become your regulars and become your friends and a very helpful. A lot of us, like myself, began and started working in the industry because yes it is Fast Cash. But I need a fast cash, being a single mother of four children, and never getting a diamond child support. Everybody in this world pick their job for a reason, I picked mine to support my children all by myself and I did a pretty good job at it. You guys antagonizing the girls it's just ridiculous. Put yourselves in their families positions, what if that was your sister your daughter your niece or nephew? Shame on you guys

    I worked with both of these girls at the time of their murders. Melissa did not have a mean bone in her body nor did she have anybody in this entire world that would ever want to be an enemy of hers. Unfortunately I believe that she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I have bartended in the strip clubs with them and have continued for the past 23 years. There may be some nights that drama happens, but that is why security is there. To ensure that we are safe, to assure that they walk us through our cars at the end of the night. We don't put ourselves in a dangerous position just for money. And it's not really even a dangerous position. Not everybody that goes in there is a pig. People become your regulars and become your friends and a very helpful. A lot of us, like myself, began and started working in the industry because yes it is Fast Cash. But I need a fast cash, being a single mother of four children, and never getting a diamond child support. Everybody in this world pick their job for a reason, I picked mine to support my children all by myself and I did a pretty good job at it. You guys antagonizing the girls it's just ridiculous. Put yourselves in their families positions, what if that was your sister your daughter your niece or nephew? Shame on you guys

  • John
    John Connecticut
    Nic - yes, thanks. What you say does make sense. You should have been a detective / investigator! Thanks for the good work / great episodes. I always enjoy listening to your show. Thanks again.

    Nic - yes, thanks. What you say does make sense. You should have been a detective / investigator! Thanks for the good work / great episodes. I always enjoy listening to your show. Thanks again.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Raerae, I thought some of the posts here were harsh on here but I thought were very fair on the show. Either way apologies. We were trying to raise some awareness for this still-unsolved case and get some justice for these young ladies that were killed by some selfish maniac. It's been too long and I hope and pray that the Mason and Glass family get the answers they deserve. Cheers and Happy Holidays to all! Nic

    Hi Raerae,
    I thought some of the posts here were harsh on here but I thought were very fair on the show. Either way apologies. We were trying to raise some awareness for this still-unsolved case and get some justice for these young ladies that were killed by some selfish maniac. It's been too long and I hope and pray that the Mason and Glass family get the answers they deserve.
    Cheers and Happy Holidays to all!
    Nic

  • Christie Groves "The Doe Patrol"
    Christie Groves "The Doe Patrol" WA
    I listened to this podcast twice, and have read all the comments, and I like Rachel from Ohios idea that it could be one of the workers, working in the house, and to further do we know anything about the owners of the home that they were renting from and/or previous tenants that live their? I am sure that the investigators have run down these avenues already but, it would be nice to know the dynamics of that rental. Could it even have been one of the neighbors that thought there was too much vehicle/foot traffic? I also wanted to point out, w/ regards to the strip club comments, that I have gone to strip clubs several times in my life because I enjoy the music and dancing, I mostly have gone with my male friends and a couple ex-boyfriends over the years, and I am not a Pig or sexually defiant/obsessed or any weird fetish, I seriously just like the music and watching the woman dance, I would not feel comfortable in a male strip club at all!!!!! Hell, there are bigger Pigs and Sluts at some of the dance clubs I use to go dancing at before Covid. Thanks again TCG for the podcast & remember, if the Beer doesn't get to you, the Crime will- Christie

    I listened to this podcast twice, and have read all the comments, and I like Rachel from Ohios idea that it could be one of the workers, working in the house, and to further do we know anything about the owners of the home that they were renting from and/or previous tenants that live their? I am sure that the investigators have run down these avenues already but, it would be nice to know the dynamics of that rental. Could it even have been one of the neighbors that thought there was too much vehicle/foot traffic? I also wanted to point out, w/ regards to the strip club comments, that I have gone to strip clubs several times in my life because I enjoy the music and dancing, I mostly have gone with my male friends and a couple ex-boyfriends over the years, and I am not a Pig or sexually defiant/obsessed or any weird fetish, I seriously just like the music and watching the woman dance, I would not feel comfortable in a male strip club at all!!!!! Hell, there are bigger Pigs and Sluts at some of the dance clubs I use to go dancing at before Covid.
    Thanks again TCG for the podcast & remember, if the Beer doesn't get to you, the Crime will- Christie

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Oklahoma
    The mention of the Glass & Mason home being under renovation during or shortly before the the murders throws up a big red flag for me. I might also bring back up the fact it backs up to or has an extremely close-property line with an apartment complex opens up other investigatory efforts I hope that were followed upon by law enforcement. The renovation would most likely cause keys to be distributed to construction worker needing access and would be a possible deep pool of potential suspects to interview and take buccal swabs from for DNA extraction. These are very often prime pickings for suspects.

    The mention of the Glass & Mason home being under renovation during or shortly before the the murders throws up a big red flag for me. I might also bring back up the fact it backs up to or has an extremely close-property line with an apartment complex opens up other investigatory efforts I hope that were followed upon by law enforcement. The renovation would most likely cause keys to be distributed to construction worker needing access and would be a possible deep pool of potential suspects to interview and take buccal swabs from for DNA extraction. These are very often prime pickings for suspects.

  • Chey
    Chey Virginia
    I feel like the event they were supposed to work that night plays a huge part in whatever happened at their house. Whether it was an attempted robbery, maybe someone who was aware of the event but not of the cancellation? Or perhaps someone claiming to be the drivers? The fact that they were supposed to be chauffeured that night really really sticks out to me.

    I feel like the event they were supposed to work that night plays a huge part in whatever happened at their house. Whether it was an attempted robbery, maybe someone who was aware of the event but not of the cancellation? Or perhaps someone claiming to be the drivers? The fact that they were supposed to be chauffeured that night really really sticks out to me.

  • Cheyenne Hamilton
    Cheyenne Hamilton Virginia
    Hey y’all! After reading the comments here I see y’all are kinda seeing my point of view. While the contractors may be involved, I just don’t think it’s relevant. While there are cases of contractors murdering and robbing their employers, it’s not a common occurrence, as common as construction and renovation is. The fact that they were working an event and being chauffeured really sticks out to me. It looks to me like they had to have let the killers in, perhaps under the guise of being the drivers? The sources say that the event was canceled but it wasn’t clear to me that the girls knew it was canceled. The phones is the biggest part of that theory. Perhaps someone reached out claiming to be the drivers, or they were never informed it was canceled. I just feel like the event that night is hugely involved in what happened to them.

    Hey y’all! After reading the comments here I see y’all are kinda seeing my point of view. While the contractors may be involved, I just don’t think it’s relevant. While there are cases of contractors murdering and robbing their employers, it’s not a common occurrence, as common as construction and renovation is. The fact that they were working an event and being chauffeured really sticks out to me. It looks to me like they had to have let the killers in, perhaps under the guise of being the drivers? The sources say that the event was canceled but it wasn’t clear to me that the girls knew it was canceled. The phones is the biggest part of that theory. Perhaps someone reached out claiming to be the drivers, or they were never informed it was canceled. I just feel like the event that night is hugely involved in what happened to them.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Chey - yes the event is weird to me as well. Here is another idea... What if the event was a ruse to make sure both women would be home that night? I think the phones show that there is a connection from perp(s) to victims here. So what if the murder was planned and the killer - he or they knew they had to kill both to cover the murder of the other. A ruse is setup requesting that both women work a high-end event for the night to be picked up at their place, that night just before the event - let's say 9 pm. The killer - he or they would know to expect both women at their home and likely no one else there. Heck you could call at 8:45 telling them the event was cancelled and if you are close enough you could probably ascertain that A - they are both home and B- they are the only ones present. Cheers Nic

    Hi Chey - yes the event is weird to me as well. Here is another idea... What if the event was a ruse to make sure both women would be home that night? I think the phones show that there is a connection from perp(s) to victims here. So what if the murder was planned and the killer - he or they knew they had to kill both to cover the murder of the other. A ruse is setup requesting that both women work a high-end event for the night to be picked up at their place, that night just before the event - let's say 9 pm. The killer - he or they would know to expect both women at their home and likely no one else there. Heck you could call at 8:45 telling them the event was cancelled and if you are close enough you could probably ascertain that A - they are both home and B- they are the only ones present.
    Cheers Nic

  • mG
    mG tX
    Not questioning the Captain's music making skills or production ability, but the music is starting to contrast a bit with the show. You present a mystery murder and instead of a brooding style of music we get something that would be pumping out of a night club at Miami Beach. Not saying bad music, just saying not as fitting as it has been in the past. But as usual, great show and always entertaining content. Nic, you are the espy winner for best host, Captain, lets hear some God is an Astronaut/Earth themed stuff.

    Not questioning the Captain's music making skills or production ability, but the music is starting to contrast a bit with the show. You present a mystery murder and instead of a brooding style of music we get something that would be pumping out of a night club at Miami Beach. Not saying bad music, just saying not as fitting as it has been in the past. But as usual, great show and always entertaining content. Nic, you are the espy winner for best host, Captain, lets hear some God is an Astronaut/Earth themed stuff.

  • Mollie
    Mollie WEST Virginia
    You mentioned the phones in the dish water as an effort to destroy evidence on the phones, as if the perpetrator had been in contact with them. But I was thinking there could be a simpler explanation. If someone came into the home and wanted to control the situation, they might have demanded the phones and tossed them into the sink so they could not be used to call for help. Just a thought! I really enjoy the show—thanks!

    You mentioned the phones in the dish water as an effort to destroy evidence on the phones, as if the perpetrator had been in contact with them. But I was thinking there could be a simpler explanation. If someone came into the home and wanted to control the situation, they might have demanded the phones and tossed them into the sink so they could not be used to call for help. Just a thought! I really enjoy the show—thanks!

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Excellent thought Mollie. This certainly a possibility. I'm really starting to think we have a situation where multiple perps are involved. One is known and known very well to one or both women. It's a possibility that they knew all three but not necessary to the theory. These women were tough and fighters so restraints are needed. The motive for the ring leader was personal. You would have to be able to figure the additional attackers - at least one of them and get them to turn on the leader. It has never been fully stated but I believe they have DNA. This could lead to the killer - either they are not testing it or there is something wrong with the sample. This case would be a perfect fit for local law enforcement and local leaders to step up to the plate and do something that should have been done years ago. SOLVE THIS CASE! For the families and for the community! Nic

    Excellent thought Mollie. This certainly a possibility. I'm really starting to think we have a situation where multiple perps are involved. One is known and known very well to one or both women. It's a possibility that they knew all three but not necessary to the theory. These women were tough and fighters so restraints are needed. The motive for the ring leader was personal. You would have to be able to figure the additional attackers - at least one of them and get them to turn on the leader. It has never been fully stated but I believe they have DNA. This could lead to the killer - either they are not testing it or there is something wrong with the sample.
    This case would be a perfect fit for local law enforcement and local leaders to step up to the plate and do something that should have been done years ago. SOLVE THIS CASE! For the families and for the community!
    Nic

  • Jeff
    Jeff Ga
    Its rare I find myself defending police but here I am. Shocking that the true crime podcast hosts want all the information on active cases! But your argument for why lacks logic. Who would have information relevant that would suddenly come forward if only they had a more narrow time frame? If they have information that covers any of the larger time frame, they should have been interviewed by police who are aware of the more narrow timeframe. Plenty of reasons to bash police already. We don't need to make assumptions that lack evidence to claim police are holding back due to their ego.

    Its rare I find myself defending police but here I am. Shocking that the true crime podcast hosts want all the information on active cases! But your argument for why lacks logic. Who would have information relevant that would suddenly come forward if only they had a more narrow time frame? If they have information that covers any of the larger time frame, they should have been interviewed by police who are aware of the more narrow timeframe. Plenty of reasons to bash police already. We don't need to make assumptions that lack evidence to claim police are holding back due to their ego.

  • Sheila Moore
    Sheila Moore
    I'm a bit late to this, but I think that everyone is spot on with the main theories of construction workers or clientele of the strip club. Both are possibilities in my opinion. Maybe someone from either group got obsessed with one of the young ladies and couldn't handle the lack of interest? Or maybe it had to do with the mysterious financial reversal of fortunes? The three things that jumped out at me were the "event", the phones and the dna. What was this event? We heard it was cancelled. Did it even exist? If it was a ruse as Nic suggests, might it be a fake event? If the girls knew it was cancelled who told them? Could this be what was on the phones? Information about the event that could lead to the killer? The phones trouble me. If the idea was to prevent evidence being found, then why not simply pocket the phones and take them away with them? Put them in a bigger body of water like a river, a lake or the sea? Or better still get a sledgehammer!! I really like Mollie's idea that it may have been a form of control... take away the phones and then further remove hope by immersing them in water. You don't use the word "useful" in the sentence if there was no dna found. You simply say, no dna was found. Why insert the word useful in there at all? The only thing that makes sense is that they do have dna. Why isn't it useful? Either it's too small a sample or it's more than one person's dna and they're too mixed up to produce reliable results. I am also of the belief that the /s were known to at least one of the girls and that's why they could get in or be let in so easily. All the experts say strangling is a personal crime. You have to be up close and personal with the victim and see them die. Thank you for reading this. Really enjoy the show. Not only my favourite True Crime Podcast, but my favourite podcast of all time... ever! She

    I'm a bit late to this, but I think that everyone is spot on with the main theories of construction workers or clientele of the strip club. Both are possibilities in my opinion. Maybe someone from either group got obsessed with one of the young ladies and couldn't handle the lack of interest? Or maybe it had to do with the mysterious financial reversal of fortunes?

    The three things that jumped out at me were the "event", the phones and the dna.

    What was this event? We heard it was cancelled. Did it even exist? If it was a ruse as Nic suggests, might it be a fake event? If the girls knew it was cancelled who told them? Could this be what was on the phones? Information about the event that could lead to the killer?

    The phones trouble me. If the idea was to prevent evidence being found, then why not simply pocket the phones and take them away with them? Put them in a bigger body of water like a river, a lake or the sea? Or better still get a sledgehammer!!

    I really like Mollie's idea that it may have been a form of control... take away the phones and then further remove hope by immersing them in water.

    You don't use the word "useful" in the sentence if there was no dna found. You simply say, no dna was found. Why insert the word useful in there at all? The only thing that makes sense is that they do have dna. Why isn't it useful? Either it's too small a sample or it's more than one person's dna and they're too mixed up to produce reliable results.

    I am also of the belief that the /s were known to at least one of the girls and that's why they could get in or be let in so easily. All the experts say strangling is a personal crime. You have to be up close and personal with the victim and see them die.

    Thank you for reading this. Really enjoy the show. Not only my favourite True Crime Podcast, but my favourite podcast of all time... ever! She

Add comment