Liko Kenney /// 388 /// 389

58 comments

  • John
    John Chicago
    Guys.. I like the podcast but.. you’re boot licking on this episode is out of hand. You need to familiarize yourself with the constitution. It is your right to request the officers name and badge number. How do you know if they’re even a cop?? And all that yes sir no sir shit. I get it. But fuck that. You don’t have to kiss their ass and act like they’re the principal at your grade school cuz they went through a few months of training and get to carry a gun. Also, it is illegal for a cop to pull you over because you’re in a hick town at 4am.

    Guys.. I like the podcast but.. you’re boot licking on this episode is out of hand. You need to familiarize yourself with the constitution. It is your right to request the officers name and badge number. How do you know if they’re even a cop?? And all that yes sir no sir shit. I get it. But fuck that. You don’t have to kiss their ass and act like they’re the principal at your grade school cuz they went through a few months of training and get to carry a gun. Also, it is illegal for a cop to pull you over because you’re in a hick town at 4am.

  • Steff
    Steff Lee
    First episode in, my impression of the tragedy was... when an spoiled angry kid confronted by a firm/stern officer, it will not end well for everybody

    First episode in, my impression of the tragedy was... when an spoiled angry kid confronted by a firm/stern officer, it will not end well for everybody

  • Brandon Simmons
    Brandon Simmons League City
    I get what Nick was saying about wishing he had seen some de-escalation techniques being used. But based on the way that Liko was talking, I don't believe that would have helped. Liko was rapid-fire with the questions and constantly keeping up the chatter. Had the officer explained why he took the ID, Liko would have just kept up the same tactic with new words. Why do you have to check me? I'm not doing anything. I can be here. This is a free country. Go hassle some real criminals. I am not a criminal..... Also, does any grown adult born in the US not know why an officer asks for their license?

    I get what Nick was saying about wishing he had seen some de-escalation techniques being used. But based on the way that Liko was talking, I don't believe that would have helped. Liko was rapid-fire with the questions and constantly keeping up the chatter. Had the officer explained why he took the ID, Liko would have just kept up the same tactic with new words. Why do you have to check me? I'm not doing anything. I can be here. This is a free country. Go hassle some real criminals. I am not a criminal..... Also, does any grown adult born in the US not know why an officer asks for their license?

  • Brandon Simmons
    Brandon Simmons League City
    Also, along with the "Yes, sir", "No, sir", as well as knowing one's rights... Even if the officer happens to be in the wrong, be polite, and don't be confrontational. There is no win in the moment. Stay calm. Stay safe. Then, later, make your argument to a lawyer, to a judge, and to Internal Affairs.

    Also, along with the "Yes, sir", "No, sir", as well as knowing one's rights... Even if the officer happens to be in the wrong, be polite, and don't be confrontational. There is no win in the moment. Stay calm. Stay safe. Then, later, make your argument to a lawyer, to a judge, and to Internal Affairs.

  • Slatts McCracker
    Slatts McCracker Sydney
    Captain-do we get an episode tomorrow-you said next week on the podcast. This case is crazy Liko: What’s up wit dat?

    Captain-do we get an episode tomorrow-you said next week on the podcast.
    This case is crazy
    Liko: What’s up wit dat?

  • G
    G Florida
    Liko sounds like Richard Simmons in the audio.

    Liko sounds like Richard Simmons in the audio.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Slatts - Part 2 will be out today, we miss spoke. Cheers Nic

    @ Slatts - Part 2 will be out today, we miss spoke.
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ John - we or at least I never questioned the part where Liko asked McKay for his name and badge #. Not only am I aware but I have personally done this on at least two occasions that I can recall, maybe more. I get what you're are saying and you are right! - I won't be pushed around, it's not in my nature. I do believe in the golden rule and the Telsa rule - get what you give. So I try to start off every encounter regardless of who it may be or what rank they hold by treating them the way I expect them to treat me in return. I hope that adds some clarity to my statements. Cheers John and thank you for posting - Nic

    @ John - we or at least I never questioned the part where Liko asked McKay for his name and badge #.
    Not only am I aware but I have personally done this on at least two occasions that I can recall, maybe more.
    I get what you're are saying and you are right!
    - I won't be pushed around, it's not in my nature. I do believe in the golden rule and the Telsa rule - get what you give. So I try to start off every encounter regardless of who it may be or what rank they hold by treating them the way I expect them to treat me in return.
    I hope that adds some clarity to my statements. Cheers John and thank you for posting - Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Brandon - sounds like my delivery was bad. I agree 100% Liko's actions, behavior and attitude were completely piss poor and way out of bounds. I actually gave a little "unpopular" praise to McKay for remaining as calm as he did. Cheers B! Nic

    @ Brandon - sounds like my delivery was bad. I agree 100% Liko's actions, behavior and attitude were completely piss poor and way out of bounds. I actually gave a little "unpopular" praise to McKay for remaining as calm as he did.
    Cheers B!
    Nic

  • Justene
    Justene MN
    I agree with Nic - - the things that police officers see in a day and contend with while on patrol are strenuous to say the least. Comply with a simple request. It really is that easy.

    I agree with Nic - - the things that police officers see in a day and contend with while on patrol are strenuous to say the least. Comply with a simple request. It really is that easy.

  • Chris
    Chris Austin tx
    The start of this episode You guys got liko’s rights wrong. He does not have to give any ID without cause. I like your podcast but this is boot licking and not the law.

    The start of this episode You guys got liko’s rights wrong. He does not have to give any ID without cause. I like your podcast but this is boot licking and not the law.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Chris • Austin tx Officer stated the cause as suspicious vehicle in a suspicious location.

    Chris • Austin tx
    Officer stated the cause as suspicious vehicle in a suspicious location.

  • Slatts McCracker
    Slatts McCracker Sydney
    After ep 1 it’s hard to put much blame on McKay. Apart from the initial outburst he’s doing pretty good to remain calm. Agree with Captain that there are things he could have said to maybe put Liko at ease, but I think at this point Liko was already starting to lose it and McKay was just waiting for the other cop to come for assistance but probably as a witness also given he knew a complaint would be coming.

    After ep 1 it’s hard to put much blame on McKay. Apart from the initial outburst he’s doing pretty good to remain calm.

    Agree with Captain that there are things he could have said to maybe put Liko at ease, but I think at this point Liko was already starting to lose it and McKay was just waiting for the other cop to come for assistance but probably as a witness also given he knew a complaint would be coming.

  • Michelle
    Michelle KC, MO
    @Brandon Simmons-Totally agree. Yes, know your rights, but trying to argue with an officer in that situation is a no win. I also don't think being respectful equals boot licking. I lived in a small town for a long time, and getting pulled over at 3 or 4:00 AM for no reason is a regular thing. Yeah, it ticks you off but that's just how it is. Not worth getting arrested (or worse) over.

    @Brandon Simmons-Totally agree. Yes, know your rights, but trying to argue with an officer in that situation is a no win. I also don't think being respectful equals boot licking. I lived in a small town for a long time, and getting pulled over at 3 or 4:00 AM for no reason is a regular thing. Yeah, it ticks you off but that's just how it is. Not worth getting arrested (or worse) over.

  • Josh
    Josh Places
    John, with all due respect, you sound like a childish idiot. "Bootlicking?" How about acting like a sane and intelligent person who understands that most cops are just trying to get through a somewhat dangerous job and deal with a lot of crazy/combative people. Signaling that you are not such is not "bootlicking". It is making everything easier on both them and yourself. Your method, while appealing to 16-25 year olds, and people who spent all day on Gawker, is hugely counterproductive for yourself, for society, etc. you want an officers information, sure ask for that, but do it respectfully. There is an asymmetrical power situation that society explicitly sets up because it has to trying to get into a pissing contest over it from the drop is a way to court a bad day for yourself for no gain.

    John, with all due respect, you sound like a childish idiot.

    "Bootlicking?" How about acting like a sane and intelligent person who understands that most cops are just trying to get through a somewhat dangerous job and deal with a lot of crazy/combative people. Signaling that you are not such is not "bootlicking". It is making everything easier on both them and yourself. Your method, while appealing to 16-25 year olds, and people who spent all day on Gawker, is hugely counterproductive for yourself, for society, etc. you want an officers information, sure ask for that, but do it respectfully. There is an asymmetrical power situation that society explicitly sets up because it has to trying to get into a pissing contest over it from the drop is a way to court a bad day for yourself for no gain.

  • Oregon Buckeye
    Oregon Buckeye Eugene, Oregon
    Guys-- The cop sounds like a real piece of work. Liko, while acting like a punk, was still within his rights. We don't have to 'present our papers' and this cop is a bully. He doesn't deserve to wear a badge.

    Guys--

    The cop sounds like a real piece of work. Liko, while acting like a punk, was still within his rights. We don't have to 'present our papers' and this cop is a bully. He doesn't deserve to wear a badge.

  • Justene
    Justene MN
    After watching the video of the shooting, I was taken aback by the use of the pepper spray. Was this because of the history of Liko not listening to McCay's requests? I also was wondering why he ran into the car. He was waiting for back up I am assuming and it seems like the best thing to do would have been to wait for back up knowing the history.... the reaction from McCay seemed bizarre to me.

    After watching the video of the shooting, I was taken aback by the use of the pepper spray. Was this because of the history of Liko not listening to McCay's requests? I also was wondering why he ran into the car. He was waiting for back up I am assuming and it seems like the best thing to do would have been to wait for back up knowing the history.... the reaction from McCay seemed bizarre to me.

  • Michelle
    Michelle KC, MO
    Listened to part 2 and watched the video of the last "stop". I don't understand the tapping of Liko's car, and certainly don't understand why he jumped out and sprayed the pepper spray. It seemed like he was just being a bully at that point. During the first stop, it seemed like Liko was creating the problem and during this one, it is completely on McKay (IMO) What a totally avoidable tragedy! P.S. Bought some Bombas socks during a quarantine online shopping frenzy and they are Awesome!!

    Listened to part 2 and watched the video of the last "stop". I don't understand the tapping of Liko's car, and certainly don't understand why he jumped out and sprayed the pepper spray. It seemed like he was just being a bully at that point. During the first stop, it seemed like Liko was creating the problem and during this one, it is completely on McKay (IMO) What a totally avoidable tragedy!

    P.S. Bought some Bombas socks during a quarantine online shopping frenzy and they are Awesome!!

  • Susan
    Susan Parts Unknown
    The officer sounds like he was a bit too into his job, and he met up with a kid that was just a bit too much of an asshole. Bad combination. But Liko shot him with a gun, and that should have never happened. Liko was at fault --- he was confrontational, way to sassy and a real pain in the ass. He DOES sound as if he has growing mental health issues -- he loved his gun and it is too bad someone sold it to him in the first place. And then he ran over the officer TWICE! Lloyd sounds like he was on waaaay too much medication. He really should have ended up in jail for shooting Liko. He really had no right to do that at all. So, in my opinion, Lloyd needs to be in jail, and the death of the officer is a shame. Liko, well, Liko was a stupid kid with a big mouth and a bad attitude. Always a troublesome combination.

    The officer sounds like he was a bit too into his job, and he met up with a kid that was just a bit too much of an asshole. Bad combination. But Liko shot him with a gun, and that should have never happened. Liko was at fault --- he was confrontational, way to sassy and a real pain in the ass. He DOES sound as if he has growing mental health issues -- he loved his gun and it is too bad someone sold it to him in the first place. And then he ran over the officer TWICE! Lloyd sounds like he was on waaaay too much medication. He really should have ended up in jail for shooting Liko. He really had no right to do that at all. So, in my opinion, Lloyd needs to be in jail, and the death of the officer is a shame. Liko, well, Liko was a stupid kid with a big mouth and a bad attitude. Always a troublesome combination.

  • Jack
    Jack Parts Disowned
    Live free or die. Just maybe not shoot someone else and run them over twice because you have a problem with authority.

    Live free or die. Just maybe not shoot someone else and run them over twice because you have a problem with authority.

  • Carlos
    Carlos Indiana
    The weirdest thing about this incident, IMHO, was that Gregory Floyd seemed more incensed about the fact that Liko shot and ran over a person in Floyd's presence. Floyd's words make it seem almost as if Floyd would not have cared if Liko had killed a law enforcement officer as long as Floyd didn't have to witness the incident. Honestly, if Nic hadn't gone into details about Floyd's past arrests, I would've assumed that Floyd was in shock & was just talking nonsense due to the traumatic events that had played out. That being said -- and I write this as a former prosecutor & current criminal defense attorney -- a case against Gregory Floyd for the killing of Liko would go nowhere: 1. Floyd had just seen Liko shoot & run over a law enforcement officer; a reasonable person would certainly be fearful that s/he could be next. 2. Floyd's son was in the location, so Floyd was justifiably fearful for his son's safety. 3. Floyd had seen Liko run over Officer McCay TWICE, and -- from what Nic recounted -- Liko's car was STILL on top of Officer McCay. A reasonable person in the same circumstances could conclude that deadly force was the only way to stop Liko from continuing to injure Officer McCay with the car. Given these facts, I cannot conceive of a situation where 12 men & women would unanimously agree that Floyd killed Liko unlawfully.

    The weirdest thing about this incident, IMHO, was that Gregory Floyd seemed more incensed about the fact that Liko shot and ran over a person in Floyd's presence. Floyd's words make it seem almost as if Floyd would not have cared if Liko had killed a law enforcement officer as long as Floyd didn't have to witness the incident. Honestly, if Nic hadn't gone into details about Floyd's past arrests, I would've assumed that Floyd was in shock & was just talking nonsense due to the traumatic events that had played out.

    That being said -- and I write this as a former prosecutor & current criminal defense attorney -- a case against Gregory Floyd for the killing of Liko would go nowhere:

    1. Floyd had just seen Liko shoot & run over a law enforcement officer; a reasonable person would certainly be fearful that s/he could be next.

    2. Floyd's son was in the location, so Floyd was justifiably fearful for his son's safety.

    3. Floyd had seen Liko run over Officer McCay TWICE, and -- from what Nic recounted -- Liko's car was STILL on top of Officer McCay. A reasonable person in the same circumstances could conclude that deadly force was the only way to stop Liko from continuing to injure Officer McCay with the car.

    Given these facts, I cannot conceive of a situation where 12 men & women would unanimously agree that Floyd killed Liko unlawfully.

  • Walter Harwood
    Walter Harwood Gainesville
    Guys, I’ve been a LONG time listener. But this episode... you are 100% allowed to ask for a cop to identify themselves. You can ask for a name and badge number, and they are legally required to provide it immediately, at least where I am. You guys have covered cases where people impersonate police officers... but that isn’t the only reason why you are allowed to ask. Liko asked a TOTALLY legitimate question, and the officer straight up ignored him. I know I’m allowed to ask. If a cop straight up refused to give me his name after I asked, I’d start to get worried.

    Guys, I’ve been a LONG time listener. But this episode... you are 100% allowed to ask for a cop to identify themselves. You can ask for a name and badge number, and they are legally required to provide it immediately, at least where I am. You guys have covered cases where people impersonate police officers... but that isn’t the only reason why you are allowed to ask. Liko asked a TOTALLY legitimate question, and the officer straight up ignored him. I know I’m allowed to ask. If a cop straight up refused to give me his name after I asked, I’d start to get worried.

  • Walter
    Walter Gainesville
    Also, try to put yourself in Likos shoes for a second. You put yourself in the officers’ shoes. He’s sitting in his car. A few minutes later, three guys with guns are grabbing him. Okay - he was disrespectful. But when you’re saying “grow up kid” for screaming, really? Think how scared you would be. You don’t know what’s going to happen next. They could tase you, pepper spray you, even shoot you. They could also break your arm. And of course people scream in pain. And for him not resisting: I’d like to imagine I’d instantly comply too, but I’d probably scared out of my mind and not thinking straight. If three people are tackling you, your entire nervous system is going to push you to resist. That’s just reality. If this kid had been sitting their doing shrugs or smoking or had been doing anything but sitting in his car, it would be different in terms of his mindset. But in his mind, while all this is happening, the confusion and fear is contributing to his actions. It definitely wasn’t police brutality, and the kid definitely made his own mistakes that put him in this position. But he is allowed to ask for the guy’s name, and no officer should let such a minor ask escalate. What would have happened if he had just given his name? And actually explained in a reasonable way why he is being investigated beyond just “you’re sitting here and it’s suspicious.” I’m always respectful in traffic stops and always comply. But just think how easily this officer could have calmed this guys fears and explained what was going on so he isn’t scared he’s going to just get arrested etc.

    Also, try to put yourself in Likos shoes for a second. You put yourself in the officers’ shoes. He’s sitting in his car. A few minutes later, three guys with guns are grabbing him. Okay - he was disrespectful. But when you’re saying “grow up kid” for screaming, really? Think how scared you would be. You don’t know what’s going to happen next. They could tase you, pepper spray you, even shoot you. They could also break your arm. And of course people scream in pain. And for him not resisting: I’d like to imagine I’d instantly comply too, but I’d probably scared out of my mind and not thinking straight. If three people are tackling you, your entire nervous system is going to push you to resist. That’s just reality. If this kid had been sitting their doing shrugs or smoking or had been doing anything but sitting in his car, it would be different in terms of his mindset. But in his mind, while all this is happening, the confusion and fear is contributing to his actions. It definitely wasn’t police brutality, and the kid definitely made his own mistakes that put him in this position. But he is allowed to ask for the guy’s name, and no officer should let such a minor ask escalate. What would have happened if he had just given his name? And actually explained in a reasonable way why he is being investigated beyond just “you’re sitting here and it’s suspicious.” I’m always respectful in traffic stops and always comply. But just think how easily this officer could have calmed this guys fears and explained what was going on so he isn’t scared he’s going to just get arrested etc.

  • Walter
    Walter Gaiensville
    Also, is sitting in a park after hours something you should literally go to jail for and have a mugshot on your record forever? I don’t think you all explained why he’s being arrested in the first place. Is it simply that he didn’t comply?

    Also, is sitting in a park after hours something you should literally go to jail for and have a mugshot on your record forever? I don’t think you all explained why he’s being arrested in the first place. Is it simply that he didn’t comply?

  • Walter
    Walter Gainesville
    Well... after listening more... Liko got what he deserved. Sorry for spamming you guys.

    Well... after listening more... Liko got what he deserved. Sorry for spamming you guys.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Walter - All good my friend. Thanks for the posts! Cheers Nic

    @ Walter - All good my friend. Thanks for the posts!
    Cheers Nic

  • Jaime
    Jaime Canada
    There are so many horrific and disgusting things in these episodes, done by every single person... The response is always just violence and more violence with a side of guns. There is something deeply wrong with the amount of times a situation almost exactly like this (without the added insanity of Floyd...) has happened in the US. The amount of death at the hands of officers and others supposedly "doing the right thing" (appropriate use of force and other bullshit) is completely. fucked. Listening to podcasts run by Americans makes this seem like it's often viewed as normal or justifiable. It's not. Also, officers don't deserve respect simply because they are officers. Many people have legitimate reasons to distrust them, and this is something they've brought upon themselves after decades of violence, of corruption, of racism, misogyny, homophobia, do I really need to go on.

    There are so many horrific and disgusting things in these episodes, done by every single person... The response is always just violence and more violence with a side of guns. There is something deeply wrong with the amount of times a situation almost exactly like this (without the added insanity of Floyd...) has happened in the US. The amount of death at the hands of officers and others supposedly "doing the right thing" (appropriate use of force and other bullshit) is completely. fucked. Listening to podcasts run by Americans makes this seem like it's often viewed as normal or justifiable. It's not.

    Also, officers don't deserve respect simply because they are officers. Many people have legitimate reasons to distrust them, and this is something they've brought upon themselves after decades of violence, of corruption, of racism, misogyny, homophobia, do I really need to go on.

  • Oregon Buckeye
    Oregon Buckeye Eugene, Oregon
    I just read the Boston Magazine article mentioned in the show. The cop was not real popular around the village. He thought it was his job to teach the residents to respect "his" rule of law and went out of his way to be martinet. For a while, he even went around sporting a Hitler mustache. The chief of police really needed to reel him in. Unmentioned in the show (I think) was the fact that a deal had been worked out between Liko and the local police that McKay was not to have 1:1 interactions with him. This is why Liko was asking for another cop to be there and then tried to get away. Doesn't excuse him shooting and then running over McKay but it gives some background.

    I just read the Boston Magazine article mentioned in the show. The cop was not real popular around the village. He thought it was his job to teach the residents to respect "his" rule of law and went out of his way to be martinet. For a while, he even went around sporting a Hitler mustache. The chief of police really needed to reel him in. Unmentioned in the show (I think) was the fact that a deal had been worked out between Liko and the local police that McKay was not to have 1:1 interactions with him. This is why Liko was asking for another cop to be there and then tried to get away. Doesn't excuse him shooting and then running over McKay but it gives some background.

  • Monika
    Monika Yorkshire
    Thanks Guys, interesting podcast. I'm struggling to pick a side to be honest, lesser evil... 'should've could've would've' kind of an inner conversation! I think I agree (unsure who said it though) that these two just fuelled each other up. What an interesting twist though! I didn't expect Maura's case to reappear in this podcast! Such a welcome 'development', it desperately needs progress, but it sounds like a lot of information is being withheld by the police so it may lay dormant for another few years! Fab job guys, I love it!

    Thanks Guys, interesting podcast. I'm struggling to pick a side to be honest, lesser evil... 'should've could've would've' kind of an inner conversation! I think I agree (unsure who said it though) that these two just fuelled each other up.
    What an interesting twist though! I didn't expect Maura's case to reappear in this podcast! Such a welcome 'development', it desperately needs progress, but it sounds like a lot of information is being withheld by the police so it may lay dormant for another few years!
    Fab job guys, I love it!

  • Kathie Ray
    Kathie Ray Vancouver WA
    Cap! I was crushed when you said there are haters out there on you! I think you’re great and Nick needs you to keep him on his toes! Your sound editing was skillful. Thanks!

    Cap! I was crushed when you said there are haters out there on you! I think you’re great and Nick needs you to keep him on his toes! Your sound editing was skillful. Thanks!

  • Carlos
    Carlos Indiana
    Hey, Jaime from Canada, I totally disagree with you about officers not deserving respect because of their position, and I'm a criminal defense attorney! The guys & gals in blue or brown have voluntarily entered a profession that exposes them to physical danger and mental/emotional trauma. These men & women willingly do a job that brings them into contact with human beings at some of the lowest points of their lives: addiction, domestic violence, sexual depredation. It's no wonder that cops have a 30% higher suicide rate & a 200% greater substance abuse rate than the general population (and -- yes -- I know that correlation doesn't equal causation, but I'm not going to doubt that the things cops see & hear can cause some of them to despair). Can an officer lose that respect because s/he abuse their authority? Of course. However, an officer starts out with a reserve of respect, IMHO, because s/he is willing to do a job that is necessary yet fraught with danger.

    Hey, Jaime from Canada, I totally disagree with you about officers not deserving respect because of their position, and I'm a criminal defense attorney!

    The guys & gals in blue or brown have voluntarily entered a profession that exposes them to physical danger and mental/emotional trauma. These men & women willingly do a job that brings them into contact with human beings at some of the lowest points of their lives: addiction, domestic violence, sexual depredation. It's no wonder that cops have a 30% higher suicide rate & a 200% greater substance abuse rate than the general population (and -- yes -- I know that correlation doesn't equal causation, but I'm not going to doubt that the things cops see & hear can cause some of them to despair).

    Can an officer lose that respect because s/he abuse their authority? Of course. However, an officer starts out with a reserve of respect, IMHO, because s/he is willing to do a job that is necessary yet fraught with danger.

  • mG
    mG tX
    Can't believe this has not been turned into a movie. It does seem like a destined thing. You got the punk kid that did not like authority and the police officer that thrived on exerting authority. I think the kid was bad, no doubt, he did what he wanted to do and had never been raised to respect authority. That being said, this police officer does not strike me as the ideal cop, he saw everything in black and white and looked to hassle people for anything. Cops that thrive on finding expired registration stickers are confused on what their job is. But guess what, when a cop asks you for ID, you have no recourse but to give it to him, period. He can stop on the street while you are raking leaves in your yard and you are bound by law to give him ID. So, maybe the cop was a bit of a dick, but guess what, they are allowed to be that way.

    Can't believe this has not been turned into a movie. It does seem like a destined thing. You got the punk kid that did not like authority and the police officer that thrived on exerting authority. I think the kid was bad, no doubt, he did what he wanted to do and had never been raised to respect authority. That being said, this police officer does not strike me as the ideal cop, he saw everything in black and white and looked to hassle people for anything. Cops that thrive on finding expired registration stickers are confused on what their job is. But guess what, when a cop asks you for ID, you have no recourse but to give it to him, period. He can stop on the street while you are raking leaves in your yard and you are bound by law to give him ID. So, maybe the cop was a bit of a dick, but guess what, they are allowed to be that way.

  • mG
    mG tX
    Can't believe this has not been turned into a movie. It does seem like a destined thing. You got the punk kid that did not like authority and the police officer that thrived on exerting authority. I think the kid was bad, no doubt, he did what he wanted to do and had never been raised to respect authority. That being said, this police officer does not strike me as the ideal cop, he saw everything in black and white and looked to hassle people for anything. Cops that thrive on finding expired registration stickers are confused on what their job is. But guess what, when a cop asks you for ID, you have no recourse but to give it to him, period. He can stop on the street while you are raking leaves in your yard and you are bound by law to give him ID. So, maybe the cop was a bit of a dick, but guess what, they are allowed to be that way.

    Can't believe this has not been turned into a movie. It does seem like a destined thing. You got the punk kid that did not like authority and the police officer that thrived on exerting authority. I think the kid was bad, no doubt, he did what he wanted to do and had never been raised to respect authority. That being said, this police officer does not strike me as the ideal cop, he saw everything in black and white and looked to hassle people for anything. Cops that thrive on finding expired registration stickers are confused on what their job is. But guess what, when a cop asks you for ID, you have no recourse but to give it to him, period. He can stop on the street while you are raking leaves in your yard and you are bound by law to give him ID. So, maybe the cop was a bit of a dick, but guess what, they are allowed to be that way.

  • Ty
    Ty Jackson
    I don't think the ramming of the car was to stop Kenney from leaving the officer's jurisdiction; I would think the hot pursuit rule would have applied if the subject had driven away again. It seems to me that it was more likely done "to prove a point," the point being that the officer was bigger, tougher, more powerful, etc. Based on his citation book history, compared to all his colleague officers', he seems like exactly the wrong kind of person to be a law enforcement professional, in that he was too aggressive, stubborn, and hot-headed, and he enjoyed f&%$ing with people. Not wearing his vest was a terrible error in judgment. His gunshot wounds might not have been survivable, but if he had caught the four worst ones in the vest, he might have been able to keep himself from being run over. The kid was obviously mentally unbalanced, another hot-head, and a trouble-maker in general, as well as a criminal. The outcome was the result of dozens of bad decisions by both of them. Either one of them could have pulled the plug on the situation at any time, but neither one chose to. With apologies to Roger Miller, "That's What Happens When Two Jerks Collide."

    I don't think the ramming of the car was to stop Kenney from leaving the officer's jurisdiction; I would think the hot pursuit rule would have applied if the subject had driven away again. It seems to me that it was more likely done "to prove a point," the point being that the officer was bigger, tougher, more powerful, etc. Based on his citation book history, compared to all his colleague officers', he seems like exactly the wrong kind of person to be a law enforcement professional, in that he was too aggressive, stubborn, and hot-headed, and he enjoyed f&%$ing with people. Not wearing his vest was a terrible error in judgment. His gunshot wounds might not have been survivable, but if he had caught the four worst ones in the vest, he might have been able to keep himself from being run over. The kid was obviously mentally unbalanced, another hot-head, and a trouble-maker in general, as well as a criminal. The outcome was the result of dozens of bad decisions by both of them. Either one of them could have pulled the plug on the situation at any time, but neither one chose to. With apologies to Roger Miller, "That's What Happens When Two Jerks Collide."

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Spot on Ty! Cheers Nic

    Spot on Ty!
    Cheers Nic

  • PG
    PG Indiana
    In pt. 2, there was some question about how Officer McKay could have recognized the the plate was expired. I looked it up and NH requires front plates, and uses color coded decals on the plates to indicate when the plates are expired. Indiana uses the same system. For instance, all cars in Indiana with up to date plates in 2020 will have a white decal on the plate. The decal for 2019 was green, so if an officer sees a plate with a green decal on it he knows the plate is expired, he doesn't even need to look it up. All Officer McKay had to do to see Kenny's plates were expired was see what color decal was on them.

    In pt. 2, there was some question about how Officer McKay could have recognized the the plate was expired. I looked it up and NH requires front plates, and uses color coded decals on the plates to indicate when the plates are expired. Indiana uses the same system. For instance, all cars in Indiana with up to date plates in 2020 will have a white decal on the plate. The decal for 2019 was green, so if an officer sees a plate with a green decal on it he knows the plate is expired, he doesn't even need to look it up. All Officer McKay had to do to see Kenny's plates were expired was see what color decal was on them.

  • Katherine Mason
    Katherine Mason St. Louis
    The Floyd's can be seen in the chase video from the police cam. They turned around to follow and see what was happening. It is clear as day. You got to see it. It is the big red truck that flies by. Then you see that truck again watching everything go down when McKay is ramming the car. It is clear it is the same truck. I work in CCTV I can see things that are the same on the truck that leads you to that conclusion. Watch the video again and look for that. The Floyd's wanted to be nosy and see what was going on. Not that it changes anything but if one of the Floyd's did in fact call McKay perhaps he wanted to see some major action and in fact get in on the action.

    The Floyd's can be seen in the chase video from the police cam. They turned around to follow and see what was happening. It is clear as day. You got to see it. It is the big red truck that flies by. Then you see that truck again watching everything go down when McKay is ramming the car. It is clear it is the same truck. I work in CCTV I can see things that are the same on the truck that leads you to that conclusion. Watch the video again and look for that. The Floyd's wanted to be nosy and see what was going on. Not that it changes anything but if one of the Floyd's did in fact call McKay perhaps he wanted to see some major action and in fact get in on the action.

  • Vali
    Vali Europe
    Why are so many people taking the killer's side? The police officer was just doing his job

    Why are so many people taking the killer's side? The police officer was just doing his job

  • DoomSacred
    DoomSacred Seattle
    So first time I’ve visited the TCG website but listener for about eight months. The conversations and takes are great! On this one it seems the first 10-15 minutes of the interaction are the most important. No matter McKay’s history he is straight up professional early on. Yes everyone has a right to ask for name and badge number. But I see mixed signals from the comments here. If Liko already knew who he was he wouldn’t to ask. Liko needs to stfu and let things unfold. When he starts losing his shit the only thing that has happened is the officer is running his license. Perfectly normal and expected. Officer could then just hand it back and tell Liko to be on his way and be careful. Thank you. That’s happened to me a few times; a person that only has speeding tickets and a suspended license. That’s where I am - about 30 minutes into Part 1. It seems that Liko with his attitude had something to hide. McKay, again initially, seems spot on professional. And the actions of the second officer supports that.

    So first time I’ve visited the TCG website but listener for about eight months. The conversations and takes are great!

    On this one it seems the first 10-15 minutes of the interaction are the most important. No matter McKay’s history he is straight up professional early on. Yes everyone has a right to ask for name and badge number. But I see mixed signals from the comments here. If Liko already knew who he was he wouldn’t to ask. Liko needs to stfu and let things unfold. When he starts losing his shit the only thing that has happened is the officer is running his license. Perfectly normal and expected. Officer could then just hand it back and tell Liko to be on his way and be careful. Thank you. That’s happened to me a few times; a person that only has speeding tickets and a suspended license. That’s where I am - about 30 minutes into Part 1. It seems that Liko with his attitude had something to hide. McKay, again initially, seems spot on professional. And the actions of the second officer supports that.

  • John
    John Kansas
    Yep..... Reading some these comments, I can see the total disrespect for law enforcement in the troubled millennial generation. It's pathetic.

    Yep..... Reading some these comments, I can see the total disrespect for law enforcement in the troubled millennial generation. It's pathetic.

  •  Poe54
    Poe54
    Carlos, I'm just not sure I agree. 90% of my interactions with LE - as a victim of various crimes - have been unpleasant, to say the least - and I write this as someone who has had several quite likable officers as students. Of course, Officer McKay did not deserve to be murdered, but he also sounds like he could have used some training in community relations. And I don't understand why he decided to confront Liko when he was supposed to wait for another officer to show up, nor why he rammed his car or pepper-sprayed him. Or even why he decided to chase him - since he knew who he was, couldn't he have issued him (Liko) a ticket later? But here's what I would really like to know: where were Liko's parents during the mental-health train wreck that was this kid's life? Yes, like the Captain I've had my teenage asshole moments, but Liko's behavior seems excessive and unbalanced ...

    Carlos, I'm just not sure I agree. 90% of my interactions with LE - as a victim of various crimes - have been unpleasant, to say the least - and I write this as someone who has had several quite likable officers as students. Of course, Officer McKay did not deserve to be murdered, but he also sounds like he could have used some training in community relations. And I don't understand why he decided to confront Liko when he was supposed to wait for another officer to show up, nor why he rammed his car or pepper-sprayed him. Or even why he decided to chase him - since he knew who he was, couldn't he have issued him (Liko) a ticket later?

    But here's what I would really like to know: where were Liko's parents during the mental-health train wreck that was this kid's life? Yes, like the Captain I've had my teenage asshole moments, but Liko's behavior seems excessive and unbalanced ...

  • KG
    KG the woods
    I don't talk to police for a reason. the police will violate your rights every chance they have. if you have done nothing wrong you don't have to give a cop anything. sitting in your car in a public place is within your constitutional rights and can not be used to describe a suspicious act. if cops knew it cared about the rights of the individual Mr officer should have gone about his day

    I don't talk to police for a reason. the police will violate your rights every chance they have. if you have done nothing wrong you don't have to give a cop anything. sitting in your car in a public place is within your constitutional rights and can not be used to describe a suspicious act. if cops knew it cared about the rights of the individual Mr officer should have gone about his day

  • KG
    KG the woods
    people will say "if you're doing nothing wrong why not give them your info?" because we have rights to privacy as Americans and your rights shouldn't be violated by anyone. some people think it's ok for police to take advantage of them

    people will say "if you're doing nothing wrong why not give them your info?" because we have rights to privacy as Americans and your rights shouldn't be violated by anyone. some people think it's ok for police to take advantage of them

  • KG
    KG the woods
    the captain said even if it's an unlawful arrest we have given police the right to attack us if we are resisting. imagine thinking someone is allowed to violate your rights and beat you up because he has a badge on

    the captain said even if it's an unlawful arrest we have given police the right to attack us if we are resisting. imagine thinking someone is allowed to violate your rights and beat you up because he has a badge on

  • Mike
    Mike Parts Unknown
    Am I the only one who has still scratching their head over their guest trying to link a second mortgage and line of credit with a missing person? What?!?!? Talk about grasping for straws..... what would have Maura’s disappearance done to Officer McCay’s financial status? I love listening to your podcast but that guest has zero chance of me listening to hers.

    Am I the only one who has still scratching their head over their guest trying to link a second mortgage and line of credit with a missing person? What?!?!? Talk about grasping for straws..... what would have Maura’s disappearance done to Officer McCay’s financial status? I love listening to your podcast but that guest has zero chance of me listening to hers.

  • Brian
    Brian North Dakota
    In most States driving is a privilege not a right in can easily be revoked by the state as the officer pointed out if you read your Drivers Ed handbook you are required to produce your driver's license registration and in most cases proof of insurance Most states consider if the keys are in the ignition you to be operating a vehicle whether it's turned on or not that does depend on the state law before the officers did get physical they asked him to put his hands on the vehicle if he had complied the incident would have been caught on the– cam video

    In most States driving is a privilege not a right in can easily be revoked by the state as the officer pointed out if you read your Drivers Ed handbook you are required to produce your driver's license registration and in most cases proof of insurance Most states consider if the keys are in the ignition you to be operating a vehicle whether it's turned on or not that does depend on the state law before the officers did get physical they asked him to put his hands on the vehicle if he had complied the incident would have been caught on the– cam video

  • Sarah
    Sarah
    After listening to both episodes and watching all of the video footage, it seems clear to me that McKay rammed Liko's car and pepper-sprayed him to get him to stay put and not flee the scene a second time. If you incapacitate someone and their vehicle they can't run away, you know? The kid had a long, proven track record of resisting arrest, assaulting police officers, and causing incredible amounts of trouble for everyone. The cop had been dealing with him and his antics for years at that point, and when he stopped him for a routine traffic stop, he took off and made the cop chase him down. By that point in the narrative, I wanted to pepper spray the kid too. He was obnoxious and was clearly going out of his way to antagonize the officer. If it'd been a normal encounter without a long history of similar antics, the cop definitely would've been out of line being that aggressive, but in my opinion, the kid earned the aggression with years of acting out. I get being independent and not caring for heavy-handed government. I completely understand wanting the freedom to live your life the way you see fit without a ton of rules and oversight. But there's a line between being proudly, even fiercely independent and in being an entitled, spoiled brat, and this kid crossed that line a long time ago. As for Floyd, he was acting in defense of others, which is an acceptable use of a firearm in nearly every state. I doubt there are many prosecutors out there willing to take their chances with a jury on a situation like this one.

    After listening to both episodes and watching all of the video footage, it seems clear to me that McKay rammed Liko's car and pepper-sprayed him to get him to stay put and not flee the scene a second time. If you incapacitate someone and their vehicle they can't run away, you know? The kid had a long, proven track record of resisting arrest, assaulting police officers, and causing incredible amounts of trouble for everyone. The cop had been dealing with him and his antics for years at that point, and when he stopped him for a routine traffic stop, he took off and made the cop chase him down. By that point in the narrative, I wanted to pepper spray the kid too. He was obnoxious and was clearly going out of his way to antagonize the officer. If it'd been a normal encounter without a long history of similar antics, the cop definitely would've been out of line being that aggressive, but in my opinion, the kid earned the aggression with years of acting out.

    I get being independent and not caring for heavy-handed government. I completely understand wanting the freedom to live your life the way you see fit without a ton of rules and oversight. But there's a line between being proudly, even fiercely independent and in being an entitled, spoiled brat, and this kid crossed that line a long time ago.

    As for Floyd, he was acting in defense of others, which is an acceptable use of a firearm in nearly every state. I doubt there are many prosecutors out there willing to take their chances with a jury on a situation like this one.

  • Connor
    Connor Washington
    Man I am a true sceptic of alot of police actions but I can't believe anyone would defend this kid. That cop as far as I could see in any of the videos showed more restraint than I ever would. That kid should have been tazed or pepper sprayed the first run in. I can't believe the shit he tried to do. If you want to argue that the cop was over abuse of power read your rules of the road. You don't want to deal with that then don't drive a fucking car. I can't believe this was even an episode there are way worse cases with video footage of individuals clearly cooperating. This kid was a fucking idiot who ran from a cop, then shot said cop, and is now dead....... Enjoy your show though

    Man I am a true sceptic of alot of police actions but I can't believe anyone would defend this kid. That cop as far as I could see in any of the videos showed more restraint than I ever would. That kid should have been tazed or pepper sprayed the first run in. I can't believe the shit he tried to do. If you want to argue that the cop was over abuse of power read your rules of the road. You don't want to deal with that then don't drive a fucking car. I can't believe this was even an episode there are way worse cases with video footage of individuals clearly cooperating. This kid was a fucking idiot who ran from a cop, then shot said cop, and is now dead.......
    Enjoy your show though

  • Vicki C
    Vicki C NYC
    I live in Brooklyn and Other Half is the BESTTTT! so excited it got 5 out 5 bottle caps for you guys! If you havent already you have to try their Green City IPA. Fave beer!

    I live in Brooklyn and Other Half is the BESTTTT! so excited it got 5 out 5 bottle caps for you guys! If you havent already you have to try their Green City IPA. Fave beer!

  • Lacy
    Lacy Kentucky
    My maiden name is Floyd, and every time Crazy Floyd was mentioned I had to giggle. This one was a wild ride! Everyone had some culpability here, and I see a lot of entitlement in all sides. Definitely gonna dog a little more into this one!

    My maiden name is Floyd, and every time Crazy Floyd was mentioned I had to giggle. This one was a wild ride! Everyone had some culpability here, and I see a lot of entitlement in all sides. Definitely gonna dog a little more into this one!

  • Nisha C.
    Nisha C. Detroit
    This case is heartbreaking. We can point fingers all day about who should've done what. In my opinion the officer handled himself well. It has to be said, if he was black he would've been shot where he stood. As an officer of the court and a black woman, I understand the hierarchy. Unfortunately, yes sir, no sir can be the difference between you making it home for dinner or not. I was taught, you do not argue with officers or be disrespectful but that's just me. The game for us is, staying alive. I'll say whatever I need to so I can make it home. The kid was out of line.

    This case is heartbreaking. We can point fingers all day about who should've done what. In my opinion the officer handled himself well. It has to be said, if he was black he would've been shot where he stood. As an officer of the court and a black woman, I understand the hierarchy. Unfortunately, yes sir, no sir can be the difference between you making it home for dinner or not. I was taught, you do not argue with officers or be disrespectful but that's just me. The game for us is, staying alive. I'll say whatever I need to so I can make it home. The kid was out of line.

  •  Sarah
    Sarah
    This was a collision course from the start! To all the comments about people’s rights about giving id or cooperating with police officers...it’s about being respectful! You want to climb aboard the douche canoe go ahead....we see where that got Liko Cheers Nic & Captain

    This was a collision course from the start! To all the comments about people’s rights about giving id or cooperating with police officers...it’s about being respectful! You want to climb aboard the douche canoe go ahead....we see where that got Liko
    Cheers Nic & Captain

  • mG
    mG tX
    Watching that video changed my view on this case completely, talking about the last video. That cop was harassing, period. Pulling them over and then refusing to get out of his car and initiate conversation. How long were they supposed to wait? Bumping their car when they are already stopped, causing damage. Using pepper spray on them when they are sitting in the car waiting to talk. He was a crappy police officer. Yeah, I know the kid was a punk, but that does not change things. There was an adversarial relationship that caused the shooter to have no respect for this officer and that brought things to a head.

    Watching that video changed my view on this case completely, talking about the last video. That cop was harassing, period. Pulling them over and then refusing to get out of his car and initiate conversation. How long were they supposed to wait? Bumping their car when they are already stopped, causing damage. Using pepper spray on them when they are sitting in the car waiting to talk. He was a crappy police officer. Yeah, I know the kid was a punk, but that does not change things. There was an adversarial relationship that caused the shooter to have no respect for this officer and that brought things to a head.

  • Sarah
    Sarah Alabama
    So not quite through with the first part yet, but just want to point out that the officer is constitutionally required to have probable cause of a crime before arrest. There was no probable cause of a crime here. What is happening is an illegal arrest. You are allowed to resist an illegal crime (as in, you can't be charged with resisting arrest if the arrest is illegal).

    So not quite through with the first part yet, but just want to point out that the officer is constitutionally required to have probable cause of a crime before arrest. There was no probable cause of a crime here. What is happening is an illegal arrest. You are allowed to resist an illegal crime (as in, you can't be charged with resisting arrest if the arrest is illegal).

  • Miriam Darby
    Miriam Darby Ramsey, NJ
    I thought this case was interesting- but the end is what really blew my mind!! How come that dirty cop was never mentioned in any of the Maura Murray podcast episodes? I feel like the cop could be a HUGE key into finding out what really happened. Like maybe he told her he would clear her record if she met him at this motel room and maybe that’s where things went wrong. I’d be very interested to dive into that some more. Just like the captain, I’m addicted to this case.

    I thought this case was interesting- but the end is what really blew my mind!! How come that dirty cop was never mentioned in any of the Maura Murray podcast episodes? I feel like the cop could be a HUGE key into finding out what really happened. Like maybe he told her he would clear her record if she met him at this motel room and maybe that’s where things went wrong. I’d be very interested to dive into that some more. Just like the captain, I’m addicted to this case.

  • Nick
    Nick Indiana
    What a bunch of Bullshit. You had a thought of “The Officer Got What He Deserved”. Get the fuck out of here you idiots. And Nick, where was your Daddy a Cop? There is a difference between City mentalities and Rural Mentalities. Rural Officer have to “fend” for themselves a lot of the time. You guys obviously have no clue about Police tactics or things of that nature, I think you guys should have some type of Law Enforcement Consultation on episodes like this And not Nick’s Daddy. Officer McKay’s tactics were questionable at best and ultimately led to his death but what kind of training does BFE New Hampshire Police Dept get? A fleeing Felon escalates the situation..... especially when you know he is POS. And for Floyd, give him a plaque. Fuck Liko Kenney.

    What a bunch of Bullshit. You had a thought of “The Officer Got What He Deserved”. Get the fuck out of here you idiots. And Nick, where was your Daddy a Cop? There is a difference between City mentalities and Rural Mentalities. Rural Officer have to “fend” for themselves a lot of the time. You guys obviously have no clue about Police tactics or things of that nature, I think you guys should have some type of Law Enforcement Consultation on episodes like this And not Nick’s Daddy. Officer McKay’s tactics were questionable at best and ultimately led to his death but what kind of training does BFE New Hampshire Police Dept get? A fleeing Felon escalates the situation..... especially when you know he is POS.

    And for Floyd, give him a plaque. Fuck Liko Kenney.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Nick - I love how you rip into me and make the assumption that my father was a big-city cop. Weird! McKay attended New England college where he was a volunteer firefighter and EMT. He then attended the New Hampshire Police Academy. That was his training. McKay had officers in route. We did NOT blame this on McKay. Sounds like you're a little too dumb for our show. Cheers Nic

    @ Nick - I love how you rip into me and make the assumption that my father was a big-city cop. Weird!
    McKay attended New England college where he was a volunteer firefighter and EMT. He then attended the New Hampshire Police Academy. That was his training. McKay had officers in route. We did NOT blame this on McKay.
    Sounds like you're a little too dumb for our show.
    Cheers Nic

  • Kelley
    Kelley Missouri
    While listening to Part 2 you guys question how McKay saw the expired tags. I have no idea what the practices are there, here in Missouri the tags on the plates are color coded by year. So potentially an officer could tell the plates were expired just by seeing the color of the tag. Just a thought...

    While listening to Part 2 you guys question how McKay saw the expired tags. I have no idea what the practices are there, here in Missouri the tags on the plates are color coded by year. So potentially an officer could tell the plates were expired just by seeing the color of the tag. Just a thought...

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