Rey Rivera /// 429 /// 430

39 comments

  • mG
    mG tX
    The fatigue factor on the Ray Rivera case is setting in. Multiple podcasts have extensively covered this case in the past two months.

    The fatigue factor on the Ray Rivera case is setting in. Multiple podcasts have extensively covered this case in the past two months.

  • chris
    chris fl
    Seems like maybe he was trying to capture a particular camera angle or something and fell. That, and the concern over potential liability if the work was being done for Stansbury when Reyes died, may also explain why Stansbury clammed up.

    Seems like maybe he was trying to capture a particular camera angle or something and fell. That, and the concern over potential liability if the work was being done for Stansbury when Reyes died, may also explain why Stansbury clammed up.

  • Jenny Alonso
    Jenny Alonso Miami
    I am intrigued with this case.

    I am intrigued with this case.

  • Dr. Meow Meow
    Dr. Meow Meow
    Did The Captain just yada yada murder?

    Did The Captain just yada yada murder?

  • Matt
    Matt Virginia
    Well done. A few thoughts: 1. Helicopters would not be unusual in downtown Baltimore. Having attended many Orioles games over the years, there is a constant presence of helicopters coming and going to Shock Trauma hospital. The noise blends into the background, probably more so in a residential building that likely has thick(er) windows. I don't think Rivera was placed there by a helicopter, but it's not an implausible scenario. 2. Has anyone determined if the Rivera fell through the roof at the same time that he fell? For example, could he had fallen, weakened the ceiling, and fallen through later? This would explain personal items remaining on the roof while the body ended up inside the Belvedere. I offer this as a possibility because Baltimore, like most mid-Atlantic cities, is humid with seasonal showers in the spring and summer. The moist climate can weaken already weakened structures (cracks, holes in ceilings, etc.). Again, I don't think this was the case, but it's not implausible. 3. Let's say the personal items were intentionally placed on the roof of the Belvedere. The question is, who gains from that? The absence of those items would not point to foul play, because Rivera could have easily discarded them prior to an alleged suicide. Placing the items beside the body means taking an unnecessary risk of exposure. 4. In Rivera's note, do you think "reward" was a euphemism for "payback"? If his job with Porter Stansberry did not go well, could he have wanted to "reward" his friend? Could he have wanted to "reward" others who made his experience a bad one? 5. Does the person who called Rivera shortly before he died even know he/she is a person of interest? It could have been work-related, and that person has since moved on to some other job. All of these years later, that phone call may be a very distant memory to that person.

    Well done. A few thoughts:

    1. Helicopters would not be unusual in downtown Baltimore. Having attended many Orioles games over the years, there is a constant presence of helicopters coming and going to Shock Trauma hospital. The noise blends into the background, probably more so in a residential building that likely has thick(er) windows. I don't think Rivera was placed there by a helicopter, but it's not an implausible scenario.

    2. Has anyone determined if the Rivera fell through the roof at the same time that he fell? For example, could he had fallen, weakened the ceiling, and fallen through later? This would explain personal items remaining on the roof while the body ended up inside the Belvedere. I offer this as a possibility because Baltimore, like most mid-Atlantic cities, is humid with seasonal showers in the spring and summer. The moist climate can weaken already weakened structures (cracks, holes in ceilings, etc.). Again, I don't think this was the case, but it's not implausible.

    3. Let's say the personal items were intentionally placed on the roof of the Belvedere. The question is, who gains from that? The absence of those items would not point to foul play, because Rivera could have easily discarded them prior to an alleged suicide. Placing the items beside the body means taking an unnecessary risk of exposure.

    4. In Rivera's note, do you think "reward" was a euphemism for "payback"? If his job with Porter Stansberry did not go well, could he have wanted to "reward" his friend? Could he have wanted to "reward" others who made his experience a bad one?

    5. Does the person who called Rivera shortly before he died even know he/she is a person of interest? It could have been work-related, and that person has since moved on to some other job. All of these years later, that phone call may be a very distant memory to that person.

  • Slatts McCracker
    Slatts McCracker Sydney, Aus
    Consider this: -It was Porter that called Rey-he wanted to know when the conference video would be finished (or Porter had someone call Rey on his behalf about this) -Once Rey is found and it appears to be suicide, Porter thinks, oh shit, was it my call that pushed him over the edge. Am I morally (not legally) responsible for my mates death -that would explain his subsequent actions and why he may still not want to admit to the call today. As for the Note, it’s more likely to be evidence of a psychotic break in the way it interweaves real people (Porter) with bizarre themes, rather than a movie script (unless Porter was to be a character) Cheers

    Consider this:
    -It was Porter that called Rey-he wanted to know when the conference video would be finished (or Porter had someone call Rey on his behalf about this)
    -Once Rey is found and it appears to be suicide, Porter thinks, oh shit, was it my call that pushed him over the edge. Am I morally (not legally) responsible for my mates death
    -that would explain his subsequent actions and why he may still not want to admit to the call today.

    As for the Note, it’s more likely to be evidence of a psychotic break in the way it interweaves real people (Porter) with bizarre themes, rather than a movie script (unless Porter was to be a character)

    Cheers

  • Michelle
    Michelle Baltimore
    I'm very surprised to hear that there wasn't actually a gag order. That was a huge red flag to me when I watched Unsolved Mysteries. I still feel that it wasn't a suicide, given the injuries and how ridiculously far that jump would've been.

    I'm very surprised to hear that there wasn't actually a gag order. That was a huge red flag to me when I watched Unsolved Mysteries. I still feel that it wasn't a suicide, given the injuries and how ridiculously far that jump would've been.

  • Stephanie
    Stephanie FL
    It seems to be a psychotic break. Maybe not purposeful suicide, but maybe he got to the roof to run away from whoever he believed killed his coworker in the vehicle accident and whoever he believed was after his wife when she was jogging. He seems to have been living in an alternate reality. Maybe he ran with his flip flops and phone in hand and just leapt from the rooftop. The story we hear on Unsolved Mysteries leaves too many questions and seems to have a conspiracy theory bent to it. It is awful for his family to have him die that way and that it left so many unanswered questions, but the truth is likely simple and tragic. I appreciate the podcast giving the theories but overall providing a more realistic idea of what may have happened to Rey Rivera.

    It seems to be a psychotic break. Maybe not purposeful suicide, but maybe he got to the roof to run away from whoever he believed killed his coworker in the vehicle accident and whoever he believed was after his wife when she was jogging. He seems to have been living in an alternate reality. Maybe he ran with his flip flops and phone in hand and just leapt from the rooftop.

    The story we hear on Unsolved Mysteries leaves too many questions and seems to have a conspiracy theory bent to it. It is awful for his family to have him die that way and that it left so many unanswered questions, but the truth is likely simple and tragic. I appreciate the podcast giving the theories but overall providing a more realistic idea of what may have happened to Rey Rivera.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous TN
    The key to this case is to find out who called Ray? Also seems like a man of his size would have made a larger hole in the roof.

    The key to this case is to find out who called Ray?
    Also seems like a man of his size would have made a larger hole in the roof.

  • Christie Groves
    Christie Groves Seattle, WA
    Hi- I just wanted to firm up that the room that Rey fell into use to be a Pool, this is what the old custodian refers to it as. As well, I use to read autopsy's for years for a Law Firm it was part of me invoicing the clients in a High Volume Law Firm that did probates, wills, trusts and life ins., policy pay outs. I was the sole Bookkeeper, anyway- those leg fractures Rey sustained could have easily happened to his shins had he gone head first, just like with shin splints the impact of his shins folding the wrong way at knee, at point of impact could have caused this. I was sent his autopsy by way of another podcaster whom reviewed the case and it really was not how unsolved mysteries said. Basically one leg had the tibia and fibia sticking out do to the massive laceration of lower right leg because the wound from the roof metals gashed it open to a depth of 4"x6" and it broke out. As well, I believe Allison was so upset the M.E. who performed the autopsy tried to calm her down by just telling her what she needed to hear. I also feel that Rey may have been alive after he dove into the roof thinking that like "the game" the movie he would survive, because Rey's body was leaned up against the wall and the blood splatter was such that it's possible his head just slid down into a more relaxed position upon death and decomp. I am upset that unsolved mysteries is featuring an episode that is due to mental health decline and getting ratings for it. I have pasted the URL for his autopsy below. One last thing I was told by said podcaster, that Allison and Rey had gone to the rooftop before to look at the city and the stars and Rey went to a bar there also. Thank you!

    Hi- I just wanted to firm up that the room that Rey fell into use to be a Pool, this is what the old custodian refers to it as. As well, I use to read autopsy's for years for a Law Firm it was part of me invoicing the clients in a High Volume Law Firm that did probates, wills, trusts and life ins., policy pay outs. I was the sole Bookkeeper, anyway- those leg fractures Rey sustained could have easily happened to his shins had he gone head first, just like with shin splints the impact of his shins folding the wrong way at knee, at point of impact could have caused this. I was sent his autopsy by way of another podcaster whom reviewed the case and it really was not how unsolved mysteries said. Basically one leg had the tibia and fibia sticking out do to the massive laceration of lower right leg because the wound from the roof metals gashed it open to a depth of 4"x6" and it broke out. As well, I believe Allison was so upset the M.E. who performed the autopsy tried to calm her down by just telling her what she needed to hear. I also feel that Rey may have been alive after he dove into the roof thinking that like "the game" the movie he would survive, because Rey's body was leaned up against the wall and the blood splatter was such that it's possible his head just slid down into a more relaxed position upon death and decomp. I am upset that unsolved mysteries is featuring an episode that is due to mental health decline and getting ratings for it. I have pasted the URL for his autopsy below. One last thing I was told by said podcaster, that Allison and Rey had gone to the rooftop before to look at the city and the stars and Rey went to a bar there also. Thank you!

  • Davey Boy
    Davey Boy Virginia
    A couple of problems I have with the suicide theory: 1. The trajectory of the fall. As pointed out on Unsolved Mysteries, the location of the hole/Rey's body makes it nearly mathematically impossible for someone to jump off and land where he did, especially considering that he was WEARING FLIP FLOPS. TCG said he could do it from the roof, but how did he get access to the roof? The 11th floor was a ledge, so he would have not been able to get a running jump. And the parking garage was not high enough to kill someone if they jumped. 2. The coroner said the injuries were inconsistent with someone jumping from that height and deemed the cause of death inconclusive. If someone did in fact jump from the roof of a 13 story building, wouldn't the cause of death be obvious for someone who jumped from that height? 3. Why was the hole in the roof so small for a guy who was 6'5''? 4. Why/How do his glasses and cell phone have no scratches whatsoever? 5. Why did he leave the house the way he did? Usually when people are going to commit suicide, they don't just put down their soda and chips and head for a tall building. His actions at the house that morning and afternoon (according to his wife and the house guest) do not indicate someone who was suicidal that day. Obviously we never really know what is going on in someone's head, but him leaving the house in a rush, and also coming back into the house for a moment (the house guest thinking he forgot something) indicates someone who is in a rush/panic, but not suicidal. 6. Who made the phone call to him and why haven't they come forward? 7. Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward Rey went missing. THAT'S IT? Stansberry runs a successful financial firm, and this is one of Stansberry's best friends, yet all he can muster is 1K? Really? Personally, I think Rey discovered something while working for Stansberry that he wasn't supposed to know. I think Rey knew his life, or his wife's life, might be in danger. I think Rey was dealing with depression and/or low self esteem, but I don't think he left the house that day with the intention of killing himself. I also think the people who did it knew that there were no cameras at the hotel. I'm not saying Stansberry is necessarily responsible for his death, but I think he knows who did it. Perhaps Rey's death was even a warning to Stansberry himself. Stansberry does not have the most ethical reputation, so this is plausible.

    A couple of problems I have with the suicide theory:

    1. The trajectory of the fall. As pointed out on Unsolved Mysteries, the location of the hole/Rey's body makes it nearly mathematically impossible for someone to jump off and land where he did, especially considering that he was WEARING FLIP FLOPS. TCG said he could do it from the roof, but how did he get access to the roof? The 11th floor was a ledge, so he would have not been able to get a running jump. And the parking garage was not high enough to kill someone if they jumped.

    2. The coroner said the injuries were inconsistent with someone jumping from that height and deemed the cause of death inconclusive. If someone did in fact jump from the roof of a 13 story building, wouldn't the cause of death be obvious for someone who jumped from that height?

    3. Why was the hole in the roof so small for a guy who was 6'5''?

    4. Why/How do his glasses and cell phone have no scratches whatsoever?

    5. Why did he leave the house the way he did? Usually when people are going to commit suicide, they don't just put down their soda and chips and head for a tall building. His actions at the house that morning and afternoon (according to his wife and the house guest) do not indicate someone who was suicidal that day. Obviously we never really know what is going on in someone's head, but him leaving the house in a rush, and also coming back into the house for a moment (the house guest thinking he forgot something) indicates someone who is in a rush/panic, but not suicidal.

    6. Who made the phone call to him and why haven't they come forward?

    7. Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward Rey went missing. THAT'S IT? Stansberry runs a successful financial firm, and this is one of Stansberry's best friends, yet all he can muster is 1K? Really?

    Personally, I think Rey discovered something while working for Stansberry that he wasn't supposed to know. I think Rey knew his life, or his wife's life, might be in danger. I think Rey was dealing with depression and/or low self esteem, but I don't think he left the house that day with the intention of killing himself. I also think the people who did it knew that there were no cameras at the hotel. I'm not saying Stansberry is necessarily responsible for his death, but I think he knows who did it. Perhaps Rey's death was even a warning to Stansberry himself. Stansberry does not have the most ethical reputation, so this is plausible.

  • Elizabeth
    Elizabeth St Louis
    I still finishing Part 2 but I really had hoped you would touch base on the autopsy report. I am not big on Reddit, but I went down the rabbit hole on this case. The autopsy report does NOT mention the condition of his feet. IF he went through the roof, and IF he created that fairly small hole: 1) No DNA found around the hole, 2) his body only had a few scratches, 3) IF he went through feet first why wouldn't the autopsy report say ANYTHING. He was beaten and this was set up, period. I think the note could have been a "cipher" that goes along with the "game" theory. Hence, someone breaking in. After all, he's hanging with a bunch of very creative writers that are all intelligent. The Baltimore police were not known for being very thorough during those years where the murders were climbing in the city. Another popular case is Adnan to prove that point. Stansbury was also well connected in the city.

    I still finishing Part 2 but I really had hoped you would touch base on the autopsy report. I am not big on Reddit, but I went down the rabbit hole on this case. The autopsy report does NOT mention the condition of his feet. IF he went through the roof, and IF he created that fairly small hole: 1) No DNA found around the hole, 2) his body only had a few scratches, 3) IF he went through feet first why wouldn't the autopsy report say ANYTHING.

    He was beaten and this was set up, period.

    I think the note could have been a "cipher" that goes along with the "game" theory. Hence, someone breaking in. After all, he's hanging with a bunch of very creative writers that are all intelligent.

    The Baltimore police were not known for being very thorough during those years where the murders were climbing in the city. Another popular case is Adnan to prove that point. Stansbury was also well connected in the city.

  • Angelica
    Angelica Hudson, MA
    Just a thought... what if the call was for some sort of initiation into the society and that is what the note is referring to by the “game”? Maybe the initiation was to jump from the roof of a building. Rey happened to jump first and it went horribly wrong. The note could be what he would have sent to the free masonries after his initiation. Just a thought.

    Just a thought... what if the call was for some sort of initiation into the society and that is what the note is referring to by the “game”? Maybe the initiation was to jump from the roof of a building. Rey happened to jump first and it went horribly wrong. The note could be what he would have sent to the free masonries after his initiation. Just a thought.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you Christie for posting! We didn't get into the autopsy - frankly, this case was very easy to fill 2 hours and still not get to somethings - however, I will say my head was swimming by the time after the garage session this week. I think the major reason I take issue with the "leg injury inconsistent with a fall" portion - is how accurate can that opinion be when they obviously seem to be clueless on where he fell/jumped from. That would play a big role and the fact that there are two impacts would make this different from most of not all of the other falling/jumping deaths that they have reviewed. As said I'm with you - I think suicide is more likely here and it's not really close for me. But even if we are right in regards to the outcome - there still are a lot of question marks here. Still a mystery. Cheers Nic

    Thank you Christie for posting! We didn't get into the autopsy - frankly, this case was very easy to fill 2 hours and still not get to somethings - however, I will say my head was swimming by the time after the garage session this week. I think the major reason I take issue with the "leg injury inconsistent with a fall" portion - is how accurate can that opinion be when they obviously seem to be clueless on where he fell/jumped from. That would play a big role and the fact that there are two impacts would make this different from most of not all of the other falling/jumping deaths that they have reviewed. As said I'm with you - I think suicide is more likely here and it's not really close for me. But even if we are right in regards to the outcome - there still are a lot of question marks here. Still a mystery.
    Cheers Nic

  • Thomas Doyle
    Thomas Doyle Las vegas nv
    This was a good episode you guys did And the 2nd part really helped explain that this guy may have had some mental issues and had a serious break how ever this thing with the phone call and also his research into freemason is really weird. I know you guys dont delve into secret societies etc. but it would be interesting to have someone familiar with freemasonry and secret society's and Have them go through the note and maybe they can decipher something that the average ordinary person not familiar with this stuff cant understand in his note. Thanks

    This was a good episode you guys did And the 2nd part really helped explain that this guy may have had some mental issues and had a serious break how ever this thing with the phone call and also his research into freemason is really weird. I know you guys dont delve into secret societies etc. but it would be interesting to have someone familiar with freemasonry and secret society's and Have them go through the note and maybe they can decipher something that the average ordinary person not familiar with this stuff cant understand in his note.

    Thanks

  • RACHEL
    RACHEL O-H-I-O
    I dont think the cell phone not being broken is that unusual. Once an object reaches terminal velocity, the drag on it is equal to the force of the fall. A quick google search will show you that the average phone reaches it around 15-20 feet. So from the stand point of physics, the phone is more likely to incur damage if it fell from 1 story than it is from 11. Or so my rusty memory tells me if I dig back into the school archives in my brain :)

    I dont think the cell phone not being broken is that unusual. Once an object reaches terminal velocity, the drag on it is equal to the force of the fall. A quick google search will show you that the average phone reaches it around 15-20 feet. So from the stand point of physics, the phone is more likely to incur damage if it fell from 1 story than it is from 11. Or so my rusty memory tells me if I dig back into the school archives in my brain smile

  • Quinn Soine-Norris
    Quinn Soine-Norris Newburyport, MA
    Just listening to the Rey Rivera episode. I’m pretty sure the “note” is a reference card for an online game he was playing. In 2007, I was online playing WOW and had a list of my guild contacts along with a bunch of other seemingly random items that I would keep taped to my computer for easy reference.

    Just listening to the Rey Rivera episode. I’m pretty sure the “note” is a reference card for an online game he was playing. In 2007, I was online playing WOW and had a list of my guild contacts along with a bunch of other seemingly random items that I would keep taped to my computer for easy reference.

  • Erin
    Erin Indians
    As always loved the episode - but would’ve loved hearing much more about the autopsy. As a long time listener of you and other true crime podcast, blood splatter at crime scene/death scene could have told us if he was alone when he went through the roof or not. Might even give more info on if those shin injuries were previous to death or not, right? I can’t imagine the autopsy and crime scene wouldn’t give us more clues than we got to in the episodes?

    As always loved the episode - but would’ve loved hearing much more about the autopsy. As a long time listener of you and other true crime podcast, blood splatter at crime scene/death scene could have told us if he was alone when he went through the roof or not. Might even give more info on if those shin injuries were previous to death or not, right? I can’t imagine the autopsy and crime scene wouldn’t give us more clues than we got to in the episodes?

  • Abigail
    Abigail Cuyahoga Falls, OH
    Man, I thought I knew all there was to know about this case and then you two came in swinging lol. Nic, I also lean towards suicide. Initially after watching Unsolved Mysteries, my thought was murder, but after hearing more of the facts, I think it was suicide. It is my understanding that the video Rey was working on for Stansberry was to contain part of a conference held by the company, which had a shelf date on it so to speak as far as it was to contain information that wouldn't necessary be relevant in a month or so, so the video needed to go out by a certain time. It seems like Rey did not have this video completed, we have no idea why or at what stage he was with producing the video, but he did book that editing suite for the weekend before his death. I wonder if that phone call he received from Agora/Stansberry wasn't someone calling him for a status on the video or even someone telling him, Hey man, so and so is here to pick up the video and we can't find it/don't have it. Oh shit! Rey leaves the house in a hurry hoping he can speak to someone at Stansberry to smooth things over, ask for more time to produce the video, etc. and the answer was no. If there is something more sinister going on at the company, maybe someone did kick Rey in the shins and there was some sort of altercation, or they simply just told him no - we're scrapping the whole idea of this video, it's useless at this point, and Rey panics or seems to see no other way out and jumped shortly thereafter. If the video wasn't going to go out anymore, Rey wouldn't get paid. It's interesting to me that there was a blank check from his video production company with his note - was that blank check a motivator to him? Putting it there with his list, maybe part of that note really was ideas for a screenplay, and that check was there to motivate him like when he gets paid, he can do what he is really passionate about. But then as mental illness took over/a psychotic break, parts of the note reflect that. It seems to me like a compilation of movies/things he likes, and then.....I can't make heads or tails of the bits with the game and Porter. But, if the beginning is a suicide note and he's having a psychotic break, it may only make sense to him. I think this is why Porter was initially so involved when Rey was just missing, but once they found the body, once employees of Stansberry/Agora found the hole (they had an idea of where to look since someone from the company had spoken with him last at the hotel), he went quiet because although he isn't directly responsible for Rey's death, he knows it was likely that last conversation that drove him to jump. As far as a gag order, I think it's true there probably wasn't a formal gag order in place, but it's entirely possible there was an unspoken rule not to talk or employees felt intimidated or feared losing their jobs if they spoke up. However, it's been several years now, you'd think someone would come forward who is no longer employed. It was disappointing to hear that Mikita Brottman was interviewed for Unsolved Mysteries and none of it was included. You're right, it wouldn't have been as flashy and mysterious if we knew the roof was easily accessible; however, some of us are just out here wanting the facts/truth. Great episode as always. Captain, you rocked the house with the music this week. I just listened to you on Bob Ruff's podcast and your comment about if you went missing that your dad would say you turned off all the lights still has me chuckling, so if you do release a comedy CD, you've got at least one customer. Cheers.

    Man, I thought I knew all there was to know about this case and then you two came in swinging lol.

    Nic, I also lean towards suicide. Initially after watching Unsolved Mysteries, my thought was murder, but after hearing more of the facts, I think it was suicide. It is my understanding that the video Rey was working on for Stansberry was to contain part of a conference held by the company, which had a shelf date on it so to speak as far as it was to contain information that wouldn't necessary be relevant in a month or so, so the video needed to go out by a certain time. It seems like Rey did not have this video completed, we have no idea why or at what stage he was with producing the video, but he did book that editing suite for the weekend before his death. I wonder if that phone call he received from Agora/Stansberry wasn't someone calling him for a status on the video or even someone telling him, Hey man, so and so is here to pick up the video and we can't find it/don't have it. Oh shit! Rey leaves the house in a hurry hoping he can speak to someone at Stansberry to smooth things over, ask for more time to produce the video, etc. and the answer was no. If there is something more sinister going on at the company, maybe someone did kick Rey in the shins and there was some sort of altercation, or they simply just told him no - we're scrapping the whole idea of this video, it's useless at this point, and Rey panics or seems to see no other way out and jumped shortly thereafter. If the video wasn't going to go out anymore, Rey wouldn't get paid. It's interesting to me that there was a blank check from his video production company with his note - was that blank check a motivator to him? Putting it there with his list, maybe part of that note really was ideas for a screenplay, and that check was there to motivate him like when he gets paid, he can do what he is really passionate about. But then as mental illness took over/a psychotic break, parts of the note reflect that. It seems to me like a compilation of movies/things he likes, and then.....I can't make heads or tails of the bits with the game and Porter. But, if the beginning is a suicide note and he's having a psychotic break, it may only make sense to him.

    I think this is why Porter was initially so involved when Rey was just missing, but once they found the body, once employees of Stansberry/Agora found the hole (they had an idea of where to look since someone from the company had spoken with him last at the hotel), he went quiet because although he isn't directly responsible for Rey's death, he knows it was likely that last conversation that drove him to jump. As far as a gag order, I think it's true there probably wasn't a formal gag order in place, but it's entirely possible there was an unspoken rule not to talk or employees felt intimidated or feared losing their jobs if they spoke up. However, it's been several years now, you'd think someone would come forward who is no longer employed.

    It was disappointing to hear that Mikita Brottman was interviewed for Unsolved Mysteries and none of it was included. You're right, it wouldn't have been as flashy and mysterious if we knew the roof was easily accessible; however, some of us are just out here wanting the facts/truth.

    Great episode as always. Captain, you rocked the house with the music this week. I just listened to you on Bob Ruff's podcast and your comment about if you went missing that your dad would say you turned off all the lights still has me chuckling, so if you do release a comedy CD, you've got at least one customer.

    Cheers.

  • Drew
    Drew Parts Unknown
    I think that the 'accident' scenario is quite easily overlooked here. One thing that points me to this theory is the 'note' that was tape to the back of his laptop. I have read over and over the contents(or what can be deciphered ) of the note, and it just looks like open note taking. Reys family and friends had even said that he was constantly writing or coming up with ideas for scripts or stories, and this seems to be the ramblings of someone that is brainstorming for a script. I only say this because of my own experience in the film industry and writing scripts. My theory is that Rey was scouting a filming location on top of the Belvidere. At some point, he got up on or near the ledge and fell to his death. I think the fall easily could have done the damage to his shins, but also with the distance of 40ft out from the ledge of the top of the hotel, who's to say he didn't hit the ledge on the 11th floor on his way down? I think that could have redirected the trajectory of his fall far enough to make up for this distance, especially if he fell from one of the corners of the roof that juts out a bit more towards the place where he broke through the roof. Just my two cents as I had not seen this theory being presented yet.

    I think that the 'accident' scenario is quite easily overlooked here. One thing that points me to this theory is the 'note' that was tape to the back of his laptop. I have read over and over the contents(or what can be deciphered ) of the note, and it just looks like open note taking. Reys family and friends had even said that he was constantly writing or coming up with ideas for scripts or stories, and this seems to be the ramblings of someone that is brainstorming for a script. I only say this because of my own experience in the film industry and writing scripts.

    My theory is that Rey was scouting a filming location on top of the Belvidere. At some point, he got up on or near the ledge and fell to his death. I think the fall easily could have done the damage to his shins, but also with the distance of 40ft out from the ledge of the top of the hotel, who's to say he didn't hit the ledge on the 11th floor on his way down? I think that could have redirected the trajectory of his fall far enough to make up for this distance, especially if he fell from one of the corners of the roof that juts out a bit more towards the place where he broke through the roof. Just my two cents as I had not seen this theory being presented yet.

  • Cindy
    Cindy Somewhere
    Re: The call What if he did not actually receive a call; had a fake conversation that was overheard by the houseguest. I'm not thinking that he did this intentionally for the guest to hear. If he was experiencing a mental health crisis perhaps he thought he was having an actual phone conversation.

    Re: The call
    What if he did not actually receive a call; had a fake conversation that was overheard by the houseguest. I'm not thinking that he did this intentionally for the guest to hear. If he was experiencing a mental health crisis perhaps he thought he was having an actual phone conversation.

  • Jeff
    Jeff Ga
    So disappointed this week as both TCG and Gen Why did pointless cases. Only actual cases if you ignore the evidence. I hoped you would at least call out Unsolved Mysteries for everything they left out and lied about. As Rey's friend since childhood said, this is a chance to discuss mental illness not a murder mystery. Porter didn't back off as The Captain stated. He fully cooperated with law enforcement. Rey's wife told Porter and other friends when looking for him that Rey was morose and wouldn't get out of bed the Saturday before. Not only the cops think it's suicide but also the local woman who wrote the book about it. And the claims of it being difficult to access the roof are kind of debunked by said author being able to do it. I'm a huge fan and have been a loyal listener for years. Each week I expect an accurate depiction of the case and in the cases I'm familiar with that you've covered in the past, I've felt I've got that. But it seems you were more interested in popping out an episode and appeasing the fans who bought into Unsolved Mysteries depiction rather than approaching it the way you do a typical case.

    So disappointed this week as both TCG and Gen Why did pointless cases. Only actual cases if you ignore the evidence. I hoped you would at least call out Unsolved Mysteries for everything they left out and lied about. As Rey's friend since childhood said, this is a chance to discuss mental illness not a murder mystery. Porter didn't back off as The Captain stated. He fully cooperated with law enforcement. Rey's wife told Porter and other friends when looking for him that Rey was morose and wouldn't get out of bed the Saturday before. Not only the cops think it's suicide but also the local woman who wrote the book about it. And the claims of it being difficult to access the roof are kind of debunked by said author being able to do it. I'm a huge fan and have been a loyal listener for years. Each week I expect an accurate depiction of the case and in the cases I'm familiar with that you've covered in the past, I've felt I've got that. But it seems you were more interested in popping out an episode and appeasing the fans who bought into Unsolved Mysteries depiction rather than approaching it the way you do a typical case.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Jeff - yes this was a very much requested case. I hesitated to do this one as so many others already have. However, for every reason you pointed out that this is a suicide we stated those very same reasons using the same source. We brought to light for many who have not found or reviewed that info. We flat out said - you have to wonder did the show (unsolved mysteries) leave this out because with this info its not such a mystery. Anyway, we march on - next week there will be a new case. Cheers, and thank you for posting! Nic

    @ Jeff - yes this was a very much requested case. I hesitated to do this one as so many others already have. However, for every reason you pointed out that this is a suicide we stated those very same reasons using the same source. We brought to light for many who have not found or reviewed that info. We flat out said - you have to wonder did the show (unsolved mysteries) leave this out because with this info its not such a mystery.
    Anyway, we march on - next week there will be a new case.
    Cheers, and thank you for posting!
    Nic

  • Toby
    Toby Hudiksvall, Sweden
    Seems to me like people are making a big deal of the fact that this guy's body ended up in a weird place where it remained unnoticed for a week or so, and then build all sorts of theories around this fact! It's a strange one-in a-million incidence, but i wouldn't call it anything more. After all, given that he fell, jumped or was pushed from that building (or from an helicopter, airplane or alien aircraft!), he pretty much had to end up *somewhere* below; in the street, on some roof, car or whatever! That's like firing a gun in the general direction of a barn, and then paint rings around the bullet hole in the wall, to prove your marksman skills..!

    Seems to me like people are making a big deal of the fact that this guy's body ended up in a weird place where it remained unnoticed for a week or so, and then build all sorts of theories around this fact! It's a strange one-in a-million incidence, but i wouldn't call it anything more. After all, given that he fell, jumped or was pushed from that building (or from an helicopter, airplane or alien aircraft!), he pretty much had to end up *somewhere* below; in the street, on some roof, car or whatever!

    That's like firing a gun in the general direction of a barn, and then paint rings around the bullet hole in the wall, to prove your marksman skills..!

  • Lucy
    Lucy Somewhere
    Hi, I listened podvats from crime junkies, Stephanie Harlowee and watched Netflix video. And to be honest it feels that you left ou a lot of information which actually rises questions and in no way comes up in consistent with suicide story. For instance there were way more friends or Rey who reported about his mental state and none of them called him depressed or psichotic. Also, the book auther mentioned that police did not investigated crime scene thouroughly, most likely even DNA was not checked from the whole on the roof and no guests at the hotel were questioned especialy from 11 floor. Also why are saying main detective switch was logical when he in Netflex said himself that the reason they gave him was "too emotionaly invested"? I really doubt it was a suicide. Like he was all good till 6 o'clock and suddenly he falls to mental break? Does it really happen so sudden and unexpected? And overall his worries could have been very real if someone was threatining to his life. And alarm went off 2 times before his death, you can't just brush it away as nothing... Their financial situation was nit so bad, they were seling their house and was preparing to move. He was already finished with his script and there was even someone who wanted to direct it.

    Hi, I listened podvats from crime junkies, Stephanie Harlowee and watched Netflix video. And to be honest it feels that you left ou a lot of information which actually rises questions and in no way comes up in consistent with suicide story.

    For instance there were way more friends or Rey who reported about his mental state and none of them called him depressed or psichotic.

    Also, the book auther mentioned that police did not investigated crime scene thouroughly, most likely even DNA was not checked from the whole on the roof and no guests at the hotel were questioned especialy from 11 floor.

    Also why are saying main detective switch was logical when he in Netflex said himself that the reason they gave him was "too emotionaly invested"?

    I really doubt it was a suicide. Like he was all good till 6 o'clock and suddenly he falls to mental break? Does it really happen so sudden and unexpected? And overall his worries could have been very real if someone was threatining to his life. And alarm went off 2 times before his death, you can't just brush it away as nothing...

    Their financial situation was nit so bad, they were seling their house and was preparing to move. He was already finished with his script and there was even someone who wanted to direct it.

  • John
    John washington
    Oh, hit send to soon. What if he was on the building because he was going to shoot some video from there for his project (ties in with the sunrise/sunset chart web page) and fell, or the roof collapsed while he was scouting the location.

    Oh, hit send to soon. What if he was on the building because he was going to shoot some video from there for his project (ties in with the sunrise/sunset chart web page) and fell, or the roof collapsed while he was scouting the location.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you John for the link. That looks like the article we were referencing at the end of part two. Cheers Nic

    Thank you John for the link. That looks like the article we were referencing at the end of part two.
    Cheers Nic

  • MamaK
    MamaK Missouri
    My family has mental issues that are more maniac/psychotic instead of depression type suicidal types. I am an RN as well and am not just stabbing in the dark here. As much as I love a mystery, I’m fairly certain his is suicide. It’s very similar to mental breaks my ex and my daughter have had which came precariously close to suicides for both of them at times had not someone been there to intervene. As much as I want Reys to be a mystery it really seems clear a psychotic break suicide.

    My family has mental issues that are more maniac/psychotic instead of depression type suicidal types. I am an RN as well and am not just stabbing in the dark here. As much as I love a mystery, I’m fairly certain his is suicide. It’s very similar to mental breaks my ex and my daughter have had which came precariously close to suicides for both of them at times had not someone been there to intervene. As much as I want Reys to be a mystery it really seems clear a psychotic break suicide.

  • Spanners
    Spanners Gaberdeen
    Lucy - how on earth could you collect DNA from the whole of a roof?

    Lucy - how on earth could you collect DNA from the whole of a roof?

  • Taylor
    Taylor NC
    Unsolved Murders said that there actually were working cameras in the building and the footage was fully reviewed with no sight of Rey. The only camera that was not connected was the camera on the roof. It was confirmed that Rey was not inside that building.

    Unsolved Murders said that there actually were working cameras in the building and the footage was fully reviewed with no sight of Rey. The only camera that was not connected was the camera on the roof. It was confirmed that Rey was not inside that building.

  • mG
    mG tX
    I think many suicides are bizarre and hard to understand and if you spend too much time reading stuff into the before and after, you get some extravagant theories. I see a guy that had a break from reality and this led him to kill himself in a hard to explain way.

    I think many suicides are bizarre and hard to understand and if you spend too much time reading stuff into the before and after, you get some extravagant theories. I see a guy that had a break from reality and this led him to kill himself in a hard to explain way.

  • Operation Tiberius
    Operation Tiberius UK
    Rey Rivera- My take. The “Counsel” is an assembled group created by exclusive highly organized individuals using synonyms. He (Rey) thinks and will be rewarded (paid) for his part. They recruit individuals(members) as pawns, for financial gain and enjoyment. There were other unsuspecting players throughout the world as It would be hard to tie them all together. His note is a “Thank you speech” for the exclusive final celebratory event. The blank check was to be carried with the written speech to the event as to transfer funds or a tip to the assisting players. His thought process of "Making five years younger" means gaining additional financial rewards without worry of financial burden for several years. He was recruited, used as a pawn, and then murdered. What groups are known around many areas in the world? Money and Evil can anything.

    Rey Rivera- My take.

    The “Counsel” is an assembled group created by exclusive highly organized individuals using synonyms. He (Rey) thinks and will be rewarded (paid) for his part.

    They recruit individuals(members) as pawns, for financial gain and enjoyment. There were other unsuspecting players throughout the world as It would be hard to tie them all together.

    His note is a “Thank you speech” for the exclusive final celebratory event. The blank check was to be carried with the written speech to the event as to transfer funds or a tip to the assisting players.

    His thought process of "Making five years younger" means gaining additional financial rewards without worry of financial burden for several years.

    He was recruited, used as a pawn, and then murdered.

    What groups are known around many areas in the world?

    Money and Evil can anything.

  • Felony Melanie
    Felony Melanie Lord Only Knows
    Guys, y'all both misremembered the movie The Game. None of the main characters died. The waitress/gf is in on it. Michael Douglas's character does jump thru a huge glass roof/ceiling but only after thinking he had fatally shot his own brother, Sean Penn. He lands on a big air pillow thing and all his friends are cheersing him. This was the first I had heard of this case. Your podcast was so compelling that I'm up late watching the UM episode. A note about Netflix production. I lost faith in their ability to tell the truth when I read that the toothless guy from Tiger King had gotten his teeth done but Netflix chose to portray him without, like y'all said, it adds to the drama. Cheers!

    Guys, y'all both misremembered the movie The Game. None of the main characters died. The waitress/gf is in on it. Michael Douglas's character does jump thru a huge glass roof/ceiling but only after thinking he had fatally shot his own brother, Sean Penn. He lands on a big air pillow thing and all his friends are cheersing him.
    This was the first I had heard of this case. Your podcast was so compelling that I'm up late watching the UM episode. A note about Netflix production. I lost faith in their ability to tell the truth when I read that the toothless guy from Tiger King had gotten his teeth done but Netflix chose to portray him without, like y'all said, it adds to the drama.
    Cheers!

  • Aaron
    Aaron Chippewa Lake Ohio
    I think I posted a comment on the wrong episode. I just watched this on Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix. And I listened to this episode too. What got me was the size of the hole he fell threw in the roof. Seems like a lot of fishy things going on and alot of unanswered questions. I do enjoy listening to you guys every week. I have a set of Bluetooth headphones I use at work. And listen every day. I'm still working on the other episodes.

    I think I posted a comment on the wrong episode. I just watched this on Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix. And I listened to this episode too. What got me was the size of the hole he fell threw in the roof. Seems like a lot of fishy things going on and alot of unanswered questions. I do enjoy listening to you guys every week. I have a set of Bluetooth headphones I use at work. And listen every day. I'm still working on the other episodes.

  • Andrea
    Andrea Vermont
    Someone needs to find out who lived in the condo on the 11th floor. It is a big missing piece to the puzzle, as the ledge presents with the best angle from which to jump.

    Someone needs to find out who lived in the condo on the 11th floor. It is a big missing piece to the puzzle, as the ledge presents with the best angle from which to jump.

  • Toni
    Toni Australia
    After listening to your podcast (after listening to many other podcast) I have decided that Rey Riveria's death was probably either a suicide (and a psychosis) or a part of a psychosis. I have worked as a support worker for people with Mental Illness and it seems like the facts line up. I worked with someone who lept off a building during a psychosis and now is quadraplegic. I think that maybe Rey thought there was some sort of 'test' to get into the Freemasons by leaping off the buidling - a running jump just like in the Matrix Movie. He probably thought he would survive the fall because he was out of touch with reality. The paranoia, the depression, the fear in his eyes when the house alarm went off, taping the 'script notes' to the back of the computer, even spending time shrinking the 'script notes' down - he must of really been suffering silently and couldnt make sense of these intrusive obsessive thoughts. Its not normal behaviour. Some thoughts: 1. Rey could have held his flip flops (one in each hand) when he ran on the roof top. He wouldnt have run in the flip flops for gods sake! 2. When the phone rung and he ran out of the house, then came back to the house and then ran out...I think he came back for the 'lucky penny' that his wife had given him (she said he always kept it in a dish in the house, but it was in his back pocket of his jeans when they found his body) His paranoia must have been high and wanted some reassurance. 3. In both movies - the Matrix and The Game - leaping off the buidling was some sort of test. I think that it was a test in Rey's psychotic mind 4. People can appear 'normal' to family members - maybe a bit distracted and withdrawn and scared of some random events - and still be out of touch with reality. 5. Looking at the rooftop diagram of how Rey would have run off the rooftop in Netflix - they draw a straight line to the edge which is deceptive. I think he might have run diagonally to miss all the piping on the roof top - and if you do that the tragectory aligns with the location on the hole in the roof below. I think Netflix wasnt really showing a range of tragectories; just one - so it seems more mysterious. 6. I think that all of his intrusive and obsessive thoughts were making it hard for him to concentrate and therefore complete his actual work. Overall it is so sad when a person is so mentally unwell and suicides. I had a dear friend who killed himself and his family didnt see the warning signs because he had changed so slowly that they just thought it was normal for him. After he died they said to me "oh you know how he used to believe aliens were talking to him" and I thought "If I had known this I would have got him some help" but it was hard for the family to acknowledge this. I think Rey's family is in denial and I feel sorry that this has happened to them. :( Thanks for a great podcast guys!

    After listening to your podcast (after listening to many other podcast) I have decided that Rey Riveria's death was probably either a suicide (and a psychosis) or a part of a psychosis.
    I have worked as a support worker for people with Mental Illness and it seems like the facts line up. I worked with someone who lept off a building during a psychosis and now is quadraplegic.
    I think that maybe Rey thought there was some sort of 'test' to get into the Freemasons by leaping off the buidling - a running jump just like in the Matrix Movie. He probably thought he would survive the fall because he was out of touch with reality.
    The paranoia, the depression, the fear in his eyes when the house alarm went off, taping the 'script notes' to the back of the computer, even spending time shrinking the 'script notes' down - he must of really been suffering silently and couldnt make sense of these intrusive obsessive thoughts. Its not normal behaviour.
    Some thoughts:
    1. Rey could have held his flip flops (one in each hand) when he ran on the roof top. He wouldnt have run in the flip flops for gods sake!
    2. When the phone rung and he ran out of the house, then came back to the house and then ran out...I think he came back for the 'lucky penny' that his wife had given him (she said he always kept it in a dish in the house, but it was in his back pocket of his jeans when they found his body) His paranoia must have been high and wanted some reassurance.
    3. In both movies - the Matrix and The Game - leaping off the buidling was some sort of test. I think that it was a test in Rey's psychotic mind
    4. People can appear 'normal' to family members - maybe a bit distracted and withdrawn and scared of some random events - and still be out of touch with reality.
    5. Looking at the rooftop diagram of how Rey would have run off the rooftop in Netflix - they draw a straight line to the edge which is deceptive. I think he might have run diagonally to miss all the piping on the roof top - and if you do that the tragectory aligns with the location on the hole in the roof below. I think Netflix wasnt really showing a range of tragectories; just one - so it seems more mysterious.
    6. I think that all of his intrusive and obsessive thoughts were making it hard for him to concentrate and therefore complete his actual work.

    Overall it is so sad when a person is so mentally unwell and suicides. I had a dear friend who killed himself and his family didnt see the warning signs because he had changed so slowly that they just thought it was normal for him. After he died they said to me "oh you know how he used to believe aliens were talking to him" and I thought "If I had known this I would have got him some help" but it was hard for the family to acknowledge this. I think Rey's family is in denial and I feel sorry that this has happened to them. frown

    Thanks for a great podcast guys!

  • Shawn
    Shawn Coventry, CT.
    Maybe I'm way off but it well established that Rey Rivera was a screenwriter right. Maybe this was rey writing a rough draft of an acceptance speech , from the screen writers guild or some of the Oscar's. Maybe this letter is a man fantasizing about winning an award. That letter in the beginning when I heard nick reading it sounds alot like an acceptance speech, or maybe he writing an acceptance speech into some exclusive club ,or society.

    Maybe I'm way off but it well established that Rey Rivera was a screenwriter right. Maybe this was rey writing a rough draft of an acceptance speech , from the screen writers guild or some of the Oscar's. Maybe this letter is a man fantasizing about winning an award. That letter in the beginning when I heard nick reading it sounds alot like an acceptance speech, or maybe he writing an acceptance speech into some exclusive club ,or society.

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