Yogurt Shop Murders - 30 Years Later /// 539 /// 540

19 comments

  • Hae
    Hae parts unknown
    what is up with the "cup of ice"? This is a weird comment since I doubt ice would survive long in Texas, in a large fire...

    what is up with the "cup of ice"? This is a weird comment since I doubt ice would survive long in Texas, in a large fire...

  • Mike
    Mike Philadelphia
    I'd be stunned if this was the killer or killers' first time committing a crime like this. Or if it was, they likely have offended again. The brutality and sexual assault aspect of the case would stun me if it was a one-off. Have yet to listen to part 2 yet, so I'll see if it's discussed, but I'm curious if any similar type crimes were committed within the general area. Maybe not necessarily arson, but robberies and/or sexual assaults of younger girls. Of the many that likely occurred during that general time, one of them may have had the same offender.

    I'd be stunned if this was the killer or killers' first time committing a crime like this. Or if it was, they likely have offended again. The brutality and sexual assault aspect of the case would stun me if it was a one-off. Have yet to listen to part 2 yet, so I'll see if it's discussed, but I'm curious if any similar type crimes were committed within the general area. Maybe not necessarily arson, but robberies and/or sexual assaults of younger girls. Of the many that likely occurred during that general time, one of them may have had the same offender.

  • Nancy S.
    Nancy S. Michigan
    I read the book “Who Killed These Girls?” and have always been intrigued by the fact that one of the victims removed a necklace or some of jewelry when she was forced to remove her clothes—was she trying to leave a clue about the killers? The Colonel said in Part I that DNA found at the scene was recently found to have matched DNA held by some repository but the company was prohibited by statute from revealing the name of that donor. I did the ancestry DNA test; if they contacted me and asked me to waive my right to privacy to help solve a 30 year old unsolved murder, I wouldn’t hesitate. Why would anyone? Where are the photos that the Captain promised to post? All I find are links to the audio files for the podcasts…

    I read the book “Who Killed These Girls?” and have always been intrigued by the fact that one of the victims removed a necklace or some of jewelry when she was forced to remove her clothes—was she trying to leave a clue about the killers? The Colonel said in Part I that DNA found at the scene was recently found to have matched DNA held by some repository but the company was prohibited by statute from revealing the name of that donor. I did the ancestry DNA test; if they contacted me and asked me to waive my right to privacy to help solve a 30 year old unsolved murder, I wouldn’t hesitate. Why would anyone?

    Where are the photos that the Captain promised to post? All I find are links to the audio files for the podcasts…

  • Brian Wilson
    Brian Wilson NZ
    Can't believe that in 30 years no-one has been able to determine whether the green car in the carpark was one of the girls or potentially a perpetrator.....

    Can't believe that in 30 years no-one has been able to determine whether the green car in the carpark was one of the girls or potentially a perpetrator.....

  • Tony
    Tony Cape Cod
    Wikipedia records closing time as 10 pm rather than 11. Which is correct?

    Wikipedia records closing time as 10 pm rather than 11. Which is correct?

  • Cliff
    Cliff GA
    I may be able to shed some light on YDNA from personal experience. When you submit a DNA sample to say, Family Tree DNA, you have the option for the analysis of autosomal DNA (ATDNA), Y-STR DNA (YDNA), or both. ATDNA is familial DNA and will potentially give you matches on both sides of your family tree and all branches. On the other hand, YDNA will potentially show matches on your DIRECT PATERNAL LINE. Basically a family chain linking you, your father, your grandfather, etc. Males only. My point is, many men only submit a DNA sample for YDNA analysis to discover their ancient paternal roots and bypass the ATDNA analysis. It appears law enforcement was smart enough to search for matches in both ATDNA and YDNA databases. This is a very basic overview, but I hope it helps.

    I may be able to shed some light on YDNA from personal experience. When you submit a DNA sample to say, Family Tree DNA, you have the option for the analysis of autosomal DNA (ATDNA), Y-STR DNA (YDNA), or both. ATDNA is familial DNA and will potentially give you matches on both sides of your family tree and all branches. On the other hand, YDNA will potentially show matches on your DIRECT PATERNAL LINE. Basically a family chain linking you, your father, your grandfather, etc. Males only. My point is, many men only submit a DNA sample for YDNA analysis to discover their ancient paternal roots and bypass the ATDNA analysis. It appears law enforcement was smart enough to search for matches in both ATDNA and YDNA databases. This is a very basic overview, but I hope it helps.

  • cathy
    cathy virginia
    Can we talk a minute about the fact that the FBI has information that will almost certainly lead to one of the perpetrators of this quadruple sexual assault/murder and they are hiding behind "federal statute"??? I know Nic talks about this at the end of Part 2, and his words are powerful, but how is this STILL a thing years after being discovered? Of all the states in this nation, Texas is the LAST state I would have expected to take this one sitting down. I cannot conceive of a reason that personal privacy would trump the good of society in this case. At least two brutal murderers have been running free--probably still in Texas--for 30 years. And Texans aren't getting loud about this? Do their state and federal representatives not know about this or do they just not care? If you are living in Texas, I would really encourage you to raise this issue with your representatives. Push them to take action. It's the only way you are going to get a Federal agency to budge on some "statute." They need the powers that be to tell them "make it so."

    Can we talk a minute about the fact that the FBI has information that will almost certainly lead to one of the perpetrators of this quadruple sexual assault/murder and they are hiding behind "federal statute"??? I know Nic talks about this at the end of Part 2, and his words are powerful, but how is this STILL a thing years after being discovered? Of all the states in this nation, Texas is the LAST state I would have expected to take this one sitting down. I cannot conceive of a reason that personal privacy would trump the good of society in this case. At least two brutal murderers have been running free--probably still in Texas--for 30 years. And Texans aren't getting loud about this? Do their state and federal representatives not know about this or do they just not care? If you are living in Texas, I would really encourage you to raise this issue with your representatives. Push them to take action. It's the only way you are going to get a Federal agency to budge on some "statute." They need the powers that be to tell them "make it so."

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    The yogurt shop closed at 11pm on Fridays back in 1991. That’s the bad part of Wikipedia- much like the “McDuff confessed to the yogurt shop killings just before his execution” that is listed on Wiki as well on the same page. If the statement does not come with a coinciding citation then it always means that further investigation is necessary as it’s likely incorrect. Cheers Nic

    The yogurt shop closed at 11pm on Fridays back in 1991. That’s the bad part of Wikipedia- much like the “McDuff confessed to the yogurt shop killings just before his execution” that is listed on Wiki as well on the same page. If the statement does not come with a coinciding citation then it always means that further investigation is necessary as it’s likely incorrect.
    Cheers Nic

  • Jackie
    Jackie
    So, was taking out the trash one of the things on the closing list? I could see that being a 2 person job at 11 something with 2 teenage girls that are also friends. And the younger girls were supposed to be helping, so maybe that’s who was mid cleaning in the front? This case is so confusing. I feel like Amy must’ve been hiding for awhile or something and that’s why she got more of a beating and was also in a different room. Then again, maybe she was truly just a fighter and still hanging on and that’s as far as she got crawling away before she just couldn’t go any more? This one is so frustrating. Almost anything is possible.

    So, was taking out the trash one of the things on the closing list? I could see that being a 2 person job at 11 something with 2 teenage girls that are also friends. And the younger girls were supposed to be helping, so maybe that’s who was mid cleaning in the front? This case is so confusing. I feel like Amy must’ve been hiding for awhile or something and that’s why she got more of a beating and was also in a different room. Then again, maybe she was truly just a fighter and still hanging on and that’s as far as she got crawling away before she just couldn’t go any more? This one is so frustrating. Almost anything is possible.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Jackie, Excellent question on the trash. Yes typically this would be an end of the day task. It wasn't on the list that I had but in all actuality it could have been a late shift duty. Cheers Nic

    Hi Jackie,
    Excellent question on the trash. Yes typically this would be an end of the day task. It wasn't on the list that I had but in all actuality it could have been a late shift duty.
    Cheers Nic

  • Jacqueline
    Jacqueline Fleming island Fl
    Long time listener. Enjoy your show. I realize that unsolved crimes that are considered open that the police or FBI don’t want to release information that could hurt prosecution but it seems a lot of times that aren’t receptive to outside information or help and also that to us on the outside that they don’t follow up on some things they could. Again I realize we don’t know what they are doing internally but listening it sure can be frustrating.

    Long time listener. Enjoy your show. I realize that unsolved crimes that are considered open that the police or FBI don’t want to release information that could hurt prosecution but it seems a lot of times that aren’t receptive to outside information or help and also that to us on the outside that they don’t follow up on some things they could. Again I realize we don’t know what they are doing internally but listening it sure can be frustrating.

  • Thanks for doing a follow up on this case and breaking down the specific timeline. Everyone needs to read "Who Killed These Girls?" The guys brought up how most everyone in the shop that day was able to be identified, except those two sitting closest to the counter. Beverly Lowry briefly talks about some fellas in Mexico who may have admitted to the killings, or they were suspected of the killings. I don't remember the specifics as to what happened there, but thinking along the lines of some "travelers" passing through Austin/Texas and being close to Mexico, I think these fellas in Mexico should be looked into, if they aren't already. Something similar to Las Cruces. We should also remember that the killer or killers may be dead, but shouldn't deter the investigation. The DNA is the key.

    Thanks for doing a follow up on this case and breaking down the specific timeline. Everyone needs to read "Who Killed These Girls?" The guys brought up how most everyone in the shop that day was able to be identified, except those two sitting closest to the counter. Beverly Lowry briefly talks about some fellas in Mexico who may have admitted to the killings, or they were suspected of the killings. I don't remember the specifics as to what happened there, but thinking along the lines of some "travelers" passing through Austin/Texas and being close to Mexico, I think these fellas in Mexico should be looked into, if they aren't already. Something similar to Las Cruces. We should also remember that the killer or killers may be dead, but shouldn't deter the investigation. The DNA is the key.

  • Ian
    Ian Utah
    Any thought that the perpetraitors could have followed the two girls from the mall. And they were targeted sexually from the start?

    Any thought that the perpetraitors could have followed the two girls from the mall. And they were targeted sexually from the start?

  • Cindy
    Cindy USA
    This somewhat reminds me of the Burger Chef murders, Indianapolis, November 1978. Have you covered that crime yet?

    This somewhat reminds me of the Burger Chef murders, Indianapolis, November 1978. Have you covered that crime yet?

  • mG
    mG tX
    Thank you so much for giving more exposure to this case. I have lived in Austin my entire life and actually student taught at a school very close to the crime scene the year this happened, which caused me to have to drive past Anderson lane almost every day. I have followed this case religiously ever since and have read everything associated with the case, including Mitchell and Lowry's books. I always had trouble with the four teens originally charged, because this crime seemed sexual and masochistic, not just a botched robbery by four teen losers. I thought Jones was a capable investigator, but so much damage was caused to the scene by the fire and firefighters, it made solving this case through evidence impossible. Someone was going to have to talk in order to solve it. Although I think Mitchell's book was superior to "Who Killed These Girls," there is one telling thing in her book that is so powerful. After she spends the whole book making the case that the four boys didn't do it, and neither she or I believe they did, she includes Scott's written statement at the very end. If anybody has ever read that written statement, there would be no doubt in their mind that Scott was involved. It is so convincing. That statement has forever clouded this case and investigation. Is the letter truthful? Probably not, I think it was the product of coercion. But many will never be able to dismiss it. Although, there were other written confessions that were as believable. I believe it was the two guys in the store, the timeline screams it. They were camped inside that shop at the time when the savagery went down. I believe the two monsters are probably both dead, and as such, sadly, I believe the poor families of these girls will never get the closure they deserve. I wish I could shake my interest in this case, because it is so depressing and tragic. Good job, gentlemen for keeping the search for justice alive.

    Thank you so much for giving more exposure to this case. I have lived in Austin my entire life and actually student taught at a school very close to the crime scene the year this happened, which caused me to have to drive past Anderson lane almost every day. I have followed this case religiously ever since and have read everything associated with the case, including Mitchell and Lowry's books. I always had trouble with the four teens originally charged, because this crime seemed sexual and masochistic, not just a botched robbery by four teen losers. I thought Jones was a capable investigator, but so much damage was caused to the scene by the fire and firefighters, it made solving this case through evidence impossible. Someone was going to have to talk in order to solve it. Although I think Mitchell's book was superior to "Who Killed These Girls," there is one telling thing in her book that is so powerful. After she spends the whole book making the case that the four boys didn't do it, and neither she or I believe they did, she includes Scott's written statement at the very end. If anybody has ever read that written statement, there would be no doubt in their mind that Scott was involved. It is so convincing. That statement has forever clouded this case and investigation. Is the letter truthful? Probably not, I think it was the product of coercion. But many will never be able to dismiss it. Although, there were other written confessions that were as believable. I believe it was the two guys in the store, the timeline screams it. They were camped inside that shop at the time when the savagery went down. I believe the two monsters are probably both dead, and as such, sadly, I believe the poor families of these girls will never get the closure they deserve. I wish I could shake my interest in this case, because it is so depressing and tragic. Good job, gentlemen for keeping the search for justice alive.

  • Laurie
    Laurie PA
    Great show guys! This is another case that will most likely only be solved by DNA. Investigators were able to come up with a Y-STR (YDNA) profile in 2017. Austin police in matched the sample to one the FBI uploaded into a public research database operated by the University of Central Florida. The question becomes who's DNA did the FBI upload? However, a federal mandate protects the privacy of anonymous donors, so the FBI will not release the male name of the match. According to the FBI, it believes that the number of men sharing the same male-only genetic profile could be in the thousands and this will not help Austin investigators. It also means large groups of innocent family members could fall under unjust suspicion. I personally disagree with the FBI's stance on this situation. Why couldn't the match be investigated for a possible link? Could the killer of these girls be an existing innmates brother, father, uncle, or cousin? Absolutely! I am wondering if Austin investigators have enough DNA to try putting it through a genealogy database to make a connection on the maternal side. On another note, I do side with the guys that the motive for the crime was sexual and not robbery. Robbery was simply used a possible cover and the killers hoped the fire would destroy all physical evidence. They never went behind the counter to see that bag of money. They ordered the girls out and led them to the back area out of view from the store windows. I think a significant fact that should not be overlooked is the fact that Amy (the youngest victim at 13) was sexually assaulted. I also believe that it is possible the killer(s) were familiar to her and/or followed them to the yogurt shop from the mall. An article on the arrest of Joseph Martinez reminded me so much of this case. He raped and murdered a 13 year-old girl in 1999 and was only recently caught thanks to family DNA. You can find the article here: https://nypost.com/2021/11/30/joseph-martinez-indicted-in-1999-murder-of-bronx-13-year-old/

    Great show guys! This is another case that will most likely only be solved by DNA.

    Investigators were able to come up with a Y-STR (YDNA) profile in 2017. Austin police in matched the sample to one the FBI uploaded into a public research database operated by the University of Central Florida. The question becomes who's DNA did the FBI upload? However, a federal mandate protects the privacy of anonymous donors, so the FBI will not release the male name of the match. According to the FBI, it believes that the number of men sharing the same male-only genetic profile could be in the thousands and this will not help Austin investigators. It also means large groups of innocent family members could fall under unjust suspicion.

    I personally disagree with the FBI's stance on this situation. Why couldn't the match be investigated for a possible link? Could the killer of these girls be an existing innmates brother, father, uncle, or cousin? Absolutely! I am wondering if Austin investigators have enough DNA to try putting it through a genealogy database to make a connection on the maternal side.

    On another note, I do side with the guys that the motive for the crime was sexual and not robbery. Robbery was simply used a possible cover and the killers hoped the fire would destroy all physical evidence. They never went behind the counter to see that bag of money. They ordered the girls out and led them to the back area out of view from the store windows. I think a significant fact that should not be overlooked is the fact that Amy (the youngest victim at 13) was sexually assaulted. I also believe that it is possible the killer(s) were familiar to her and/or followed them to the yogurt shop from the mall. An article on the arrest of Joseph Martinez reminded me so much of this case. He raped and murdered a 13 year-old girl in 1999 and was only recently caught thanks to family DNA.

    You can find the article here: https://nypost.com/2021/11/30/joseph-martinez-indicted-in-1999-murder-of-bronx-13-year-old/

  • Katy
    Katy Canada
    Hey guys, Unfortunately I can no longer download the podcast to my device with this new player. I work in an underground setting and relied on this to listen on a weekly basis. Even after I made an account there seems to be no way to download the pod so I can listen with no signal. I hope you guys know a fix cuz I miss u already.

    Hey guys, Unfortunately I can no longer download the podcast to my device with this new player. I work in an underground setting and relied on this to listen on a weekly basis. Even after I made an account there seems to be no way to download the pod so I can listen with no signal. I hope you guys know a fix cuz I miss u already.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Katy - yes we are aware of the switch. We were required to make the change due to Stitcher now working under Sirius XM. There are ways to download the show and listen later even without a signal. You can also try the Sirius XM app and Audible app from amazon. I hope this helps. If not keep me in the loop and we will keep working to get the show to you - somehow! Cheers Nic

    Hi Katy - yes we are aware of the switch. We were required to make the change due to Stitcher now working under Sirius XM. There are ways to download the show and listen later even without a signal. You can also try the Sirius XM app and Audible app from amazon. I hope this helps. If not keep me in the loop and we will keep working to get the show to you - somehow!
    Cheers Nic

  • Christi
    Christi Texas
    I still think Kenneth McDuff is a very strong suspect. 1. His hometown and Waco are both about an hour and a half from Austin. Easy drive back and forth. 2. He was killing women while going to college in Waco. More than one. Austin is a college town, possibly changing his hunting ground. 3. He is definitely savage enough for this crime. 4. When he abducted Melissa Northrup money was stolen. Stealing money IMO is an afterthought or to throw off the motive. His mother bankrolled him, he didn’t really need it. 5. He abducts for privacy, no need to do so in a locked yogurt store in a mostly closed up strip mall. 6. Neither him or his scum sucking accomplice would ever own up to this. His accomplice would be too scared and McDuff was too much of an SOB to give any comfort to those families. He knew he was hell bound. 7. It has been written (Texas Monthly) that an informant is the one who disclosed the body locations because McDuff was a big mouth but word on the street was he talked to cops to help out a relative who had charges. Cops claim McDuff did not benefit and they will not disclose the name of the informant. I have no idea what is true or not but if he did tell it wasn’t because he decided to be decent.

    I still think Kenneth McDuff is a very strong suspect.
    1. His hometown and Waco are both about an hour and a half from Austin. Easy drive back and forth.
    2. He was killing women while going to college in Waco. More than one. Austin is a college town, possibly changing his hunting ground.
    3. He is definitely savage enough for this crime.
    4. When he abducted Melissa Northrup money was stolen. Stealing money IMO is an afterthought or to throw off the motive. His mother bankrolled him, he didn’t really need it.
    5. He abducts for privacy, no need to do so in a locked yogurt store in a mostly closed up strip mall.
    6. Neither him or his scum sucking accomplice would ever own up to this. His accomplice would be too scared and McDuff was too much of an SOB to give any comfort to those families. He knew he was hell bound.
    7. It has been written (Texas Monthly) that an informant is the one who disclosed the body locations because McDuff was a big mouth but word on the street was he talked to cops to help out a relative who had charges. Cops claim McDuff did not benefit and they will not disclose the name of the informant. I have no idea what is true or not but if he did tell it wasn’t because he decided to be decent.

Add comment