DeOrr Kunz /// 305 /// 306

73 comments

  • Natasha

    Natasha Wisconsin

    I bet the parents are involved and has done something. The boy looks like he might have FAS, fetal alcohol syndrome.

    I bet the parents are involved and has done something. The boy looks like he might have FAS, fetal alcohol syndrome.

  • LORI

    LORI DALLAS

    This is a sad story, but I'm not buying what the father is saying.. he seems very nervous to the point that he's talking really fast and saying way too much. Also I didn't think he seemed all that broken up. I can't wait to hear part 2! I love TCG!!!

    This is a sad story, but I'm not buying what the father is saying.. he seems very nervous to the point that he's talking really fast and saying way too much. Also I didn't think he seemed all that broken up. I can't wait to hear part 2!

    I love TCG!!!

  • Alexis

    Alexis Massachusetts

    The 911 operator asked how long he'd been missing, not how long they were looking for him. I understood the hour to represent the time from when they first left the campground to go fishing. That was the last time they saw him. After fishing, they realized he was missing and looked for him for about 20 minutes before calling 911. I don't think they changed their story, I think they were referring to different periods of time.

    The 911 operator asked how long he'd been missing, not how long they were looking for him. I understood the hour to represent the time from when they first left the campground to go fishing. That was the last time they saw him. After fishing, they realized he was missing and looked for him for about 20 minutes before calling 911. I don't think they changed their story, I think they were referring to different periods of time.

  • Alexis

    Alexis Massachusetts

    A couple observations as the mother of young children: I think it's kind of weird to say that because a 2-year-old didn't bring his favorite items, he didn't wander off on his own. It's not like an adult, where you can say that they wouldn't leave on purpose without their car keys, phone, and wallet -- as an adult you cannot actually go far without the essentials you need to travel, pay for items, etc. But a 2-year-old who wanders off might not see their wandering as "leaving." I also think it's weird that the father said that they left to go fishing, leaving the 2-year-old to get ready for his nap. My children never just went and took a nap on their own. I couldn't just leave them and trust that they'd tend to themselves and put themselves down for a nap. That doesn't make any sense. If the intention was for the great-grandfather to put him down for his nap, it seems that instructions would have been given to him by the parents.

    A couple observations as the mother of young children:
    I think it's kind of weird to say that because a 2-year-old didn't bring his favorite items, he didn't wander off on his own. It's not like an adult, where you can say that they wouldn't leave on purpose without their car keys, phone, and wallet -- as an adult you cannot actually go far without the essentials you need to travel, pay for items, etc. But a 2-year-old who wanders off might not see their wandering as "leaving."

    I also think it's weird that the father said that they left to go fishing, leaving the 2-year-old to get ready for his nap. My children never just went and took a nap on their own. I couldn't just leave them and trust that they'd tend to themselves and put themselves down for a nap. That doesn't make any sense. If the intention was for the great-grandfather to put him down for his nap, it seems that instructions would have been given to him by the parents.

  •  Julie

    Julie

    As a mother of a 4 YO who went missing all I knew was panic, I'm not sure how long he was gone but I saw his toys at the end of the driveway, I freaked out, got in my van and drove around the block yelling for him. I came home and called the police, they were immediately at my house looking for him. They looked everywhere, in the cars, alleys, knocked on doors and he was nowhere to be found. I need to explain this child to you and then you can understand my statement. He was an angelic child, never in trouble, as close to perfect as you could as get. So after about an hour we were standing in the front yard talking to an officer and my 4 yo son raised up in the back of my van. I was never so relieved in my life. I had looked in that van, the police had looked in the van, no one saw him. When I asked him why he didn't come out when we were calling him he said he was afraid he was in trouble. Remember what I said, he was never in trouble but since we had told the kids not to play in the vehicles, he thought he was in trouble. You don't know what goes on in these kids heads or how easily they can become lost and how hard they are to find even if they are right in front of you. This also reminds me of the story about the boy who went camping with his family, disappeared. A long time after he was found dead from the elements, they just couldn't find him. I know there is more tomorrow but just wanted to share my story. BYW, he is 30 now and still just as sweet.

    As a mother of a 4 YO who went missing all I knew was panic, I'm not sure how long he was gone but I saw his toys at the end of the driveway, I freaked out, got in my van and drove around the block yelling for him. I came home and called the police, they were immediately at my house looking for him. They looked everywhere, in the cars, alleys, knocked on doors and he was nowhere to be found. I need to explain this child to you and then you can understand my statement. He was an angelic child, never in trouble, as close to perfect as you could as get. So after about an hour we were standing in the front yard talking to an officer and my 4 yo son raised up in the back of my van. I was never so relieved in my life. I had looked in that van, the police had looked in the van, no one saw him. When I asked him why he didn't come out when we were calling him he said he was afraid he was in trouble. Remember what I said, he was never in trouble but since we had told the kids not to play in the vehicles, he thought he was in trouble. You don't know what goes on in these kids heads or how easily they can become lost and how hard they are to find even if they are right in front of you.
    This also reminds me of the story about the boy who went camping with his family, disappeared. A long time after he was found dead from the elements, they just couldn't find him. I know there is more tomorrow but just wanted to share my story. BYW, he is 30 now and still just as sweet.

  • Kat

    Kat Colorado

    I believe the insurance tracking device is one of those devices you plug into your car, so the insurance company can see how many miles you drive and how safe of a driver you are. I know Progressive has offered these for discounts. I don't know if they act as a location tracking device, or just miles traveled and speed. If it does track location, then that would raise questions as to why the parents would not want their vehicle locations monitored.

    I believe the insurance tracking device is one of those devices you plug into your car, so the insurance company can see how many miles you drive and how safe of a driver you are. I know Progressive has offered these for discounts. I don't know if they act as a location tracking device, or just miles traveled and speed. If it does track location, then that would raise questions as to why the parents would not want their vehicle locations monitored.

  • Deanna

    Deanna Michigan

    When I heard insurance tracking device, I thought of the device that car insurance companies (like the Progressive Snapshot) that tracks your driving for a few months in order to offer you a discount on your premiums. It tracks hard braking and such.

    When I heard insurance tracking device, I thought of the device that car insurance companies (like the Progressive Snapshot) that tracks your driving for a few months in order to offer you a discount on your premiums. It tracks hard braking and such.

  • todd

    todd ia

    Is there anywhere around the campsite with "snake" in the name? Snake river, snake canyon, snake anything........at the 39:50 mark in the episode, Vernal trips up twice using the word "snake" when trying to name the Salman Search and Rescue team. Freudian slip or honest mistake? If I was investigating, I would definitely find out if there is anywhere near there referred to as "snake" anything. I am not suggesting the parents did anything to the boy but it would be worth checking out, he did leave the scene twice that day, once to go into town and once to get better cell signal.

    Is there anywhere around the campsite with "snake" in the name? Snake river, snake canyon, snake anything........at the 39:50 mark in the episode, Vernal trips up twice using the word "snake" when trying to name the Salman Search and Rescue team. Freudian slip or honest mistake? If I was investigating, I would definitely find out if there is anywhere near there referred to as "snake" anything. I am not suggesting the parents did anything to the boy but it would be worth checking out, he did leave the scene twice that day, once to go into town and once to get better cell signal.

  • Leslie

    Leslie Louisville

    The insurance tracking device is probably something like Progressive’s snapshot device. You plug it into your car and it monitors your driving habits and you get discounts for consistently safe driving.

    The insurance tracking device is probably something like Progressive’s snapshot device. You plug it into your car and it monitors your driving habits and you get discounts for consistently safe driving.

  • Luna

    Luna Salem

    An insurance tracking device plugs into your car to possibly lower insurance rates. Like a safe driving discount. It monitored miles driven, speed, sudden stops, etc.

    An insurance tracking device plugs into your car to possibly lower insurance rates. Like a safe driving discount. It monitored miles driven, speed, sudden stops, etc.

  • Betty

    Betty Wyoming

    I live just 90 miles from this and hear things about it all the time. I really think one of the parents has something to do with this. BTW - Leadore is pronounced le-door.

    I live just 90 miles from this and hear things about it all the time. I really think one of the parents has something to do with this. BTW - Leadore is pronounced le-door.

  • Jack

    Jack Virginia

    Insurance tracking box, hooks up to obd2 port and tracks speed and location data. This could be used to track their whereabouts in the preceding months. Insurance companies can do base priceing according to your driving habits with these voluntarily devices.

    Insurance tracking box, hooks up to obd2 port and tracks speed and location data. This could be used to track their whereabouts in the preceding months. Insurance companies can do base priceing according to your driving habits with these voluntarily devices.

  • Kristina

    Kristina South Carolin

    The insurance tracking device was probably a device that plugs into your car and tracks driving habits in order to get a lower and more personalized rate on your auto insurance. I work in auto insurance and know of 2 companies that offer these programs. Nationwide and Progressive. The detectives might be interested in it because it could possibly be used to determine when and where that vehicle has been... ???

    The insurance tracking device was probably a device that plugs into your car and tracks driving habits in order to get a lower and more personalized rate on your auto insurance. I work in auto insurance and know of 2 companies that offer these programs. Nationwide and Progressive. The detectives might be interested in it because it could possibly be used to determine when and where that vehicle has been... ???

  • Luke

    Luke

    I agree with a lot of what Nic was saying. I think that DeOrr was on this camping trip at some point. It would be very difficult to have 4 people (1 of them not even part of the family) continue with a lie that he was there. I also think that the only reason the grandfather’s friend would continue to lie about what happened is if he had something directly to do with the disappearance. Why continue to lie and cover for 2 people you barely know. I also think that the grandfather could have been influenced ‘yes dad remember you saw DeOrr this morning, when we got back from the shops’ It seems incredible that DeOrr would be in the proximity of the campground based on the thorough searches that went on. The father drove for some time (15 mins?) to get cell service, have searches happened off this road this whole way? If you search Timber Creek Campground Idaho on Google Maps you get an idea of just how remote this area is. This reminds me of a show that came out in Australia recently called ‘The Cry’. It was about a young couple who went on a trip with a baby and then the baby disappears, there is an investigation and court case after. Don’t want to ruin the story incase anyone wants to check it out. Appreciate the show mates, really gets me through the ride week slump.

    I agree with a lot of what Nic was saying. I think that DeOrr was on this camping trip at some point. It would be very difficult to have 4 people (1 of them not even part of the family) continue with a lie that he was there. I also think that the only reason the grandfather’s friend would continue to lie about what happened is if he had something directly to do with the disappearance. Why continue to lie and cover for 2 people you barely know.
    I also think that the grandfather could have been influenced ‘yes dad remember you saw DeOrr this morning, when we got back from the shops’
    It seems incredible that DeOrr would be in the proximity of the campground based on the thorough searches that went on. The father drove for some time (15 mins?) to get cell service, have searches happened off this road this whole way? If you search Timber Creek Campground Idaho on Google Maps you get an idea of just how remote this area is.

    This reminds me of a show that came out in Australia recently called ‘The Cry’. It was about a young couple who went on a trip with a baby and then the baby disappears, there is an investigation and court case after. Don’t want to ruin the story incase anyone wants to check it out.

    Appreciate the show mates, really gets me through the ride week slump.

  • Michelle

    Michelle Markham

    I don't think the sheriff was saying if they knew THE FAMILY and if they didn't have the kids with them. What he was saying is... If you know A FAMILY that didn't have a 2 1/2 year old and then suddenly DOES have one, then they may have TAKEN the child and the police would like to look into a family like that. Because they are getting lots of calls about small blonde children. It's overwhelming.

    I don't think the sheriff was saying if they knew THE FAMILY and if they didn't have the kids with them. What he was saying is... If you know A FAMILY that didn't have a 2 1/2 year old and then suddenly DOES have one, then they may have TAKEN the child and the police would like to look into a family like that. Because they are getting lots of calls about small blonde children. It's overwhelming.

  • Zana

    Zana Kentucky

    I relistened to the interview and I don't think the sheriff was talking about this family when he said to look for a blond boy. I think he was talking about if the child had been abducted; if you knew of any family who did not have a child prior to this and suddenly do that is something he wants to explore. He said contact your local law-enforcement because they (his office) were overwhelmed. He would not have said that if he wanted you to contact him directly.

    I relistened to the interview and I don't think the sheriff was talking about this family when he said to look for a blond boy. I think he was talking about if the child had been abducted; if you knew of any family who did not have a child prior to this and suddenly do that is something he wants to explore. He said contact your local law-enforcement because they (his office) were overwhelmed. He would not have said that if he wanted you to contact him directly.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Good call Michelle and Zana! That makes more sense - he could have been given away or abducted and someone raising him or he was kept alive for some time. Cheers Nic

    Good call Michelle and Zana! That makes more sense - he could have been given away or abducted and someone raising him or he was kept alive for some time.
    Cheers Nic

  • Brynn

    Brynn Wyoming

    I would bet the insurance tracking device is probably something similar to the Snapshot you can get from Progressive. You plug it into your car and it keeps track of how fast you go, if you slam on the brakes and you send it back to the insurance company and if you have safe driving habits you can get a rate discount.

    I would bet the insurance tracking device is probably something similar to the Snapshot you can get from Progressive. You plug it into your car and it keeps track of how fast you go, if you slam on the brakes and you send it back to the insurance company and if you have safe driving habits you can get a rate discount.

  • Chingoso

    Chingoso Argentina

    I don't know if anyone pointed this out in the comments as I haven read them. At the beginning of the 911 call the dispatcher asks the mother what is the boy wearing, and after she claimed that he is missing for an hour, the mother refers to the kid as "he was wearing" instead of "he is wearing". It probably means nothing but I just found it weird when the episode started and then after all the changes of stories and blame assignment from the mother it just stuck to me as: Well, they did something definitely.

    I don't know if anyone pointed this out in the comments as I haven read them. At the beginning of the 911 call the dispatcher asks the mother what is the boy wearing, and after she claimed that he is missing for an hour, the mother refers to the kid as "he was wearing" instead of "he is wearing". It probably means nothing but I just found it weird when the episode started and then after all the changes of stories and blame assignment from the mother it just stuck to me as: Well, they did something definitely.

  • Amanda

    Amanda Pittsburgh

    I loved both your thoughts on this case. You guys are so logical and your breakdown on the possibilities of who to believe were excellent points. Anyways just wanted to say I really enjoyed these episodes, great job guys!

    I loved both your thoughts on this case. You guys are so logical and your breakdown on the possibilities of who to believe were excellent points. Anyways just wanted to say I really enjoyed these episodes, great job guys!

  • Katgerine

    Katgerine South Carolina

    Michelle- I agree with your interpretation of the sheriiff’s commebts. He doesn’t want reports of any 3 yo blond boy people see. He wants reports of any 3 yo blond boys showing up suddenly in a family or with an adult that never had a child before. Alexis- I also agree with your comment about the 911 operators question to mom bring about how long the child had likely been missing, not how long since they realized he was gone and had been actively searching. This reminds me of the Madeline McCann case a bit. Where I am left wondering if something accidental happened to the child earlier in the day or overnight. They go “shopping” to dispose of his body (sorry! I know that is harsh). Come back and then say he went missing in the woods. I can’t imagine the send of leaving a fast moving three year old in the care of an elderly man who has to tug oxygen around behind him. Especially if there is water nearby.

    Michelle- I agree with your interpretation of the sheriiff’s commebts. He doesn’t want reports of any 3 yo blond boy people see. He wants reports of any 3 yo blond boys showing up suddenly in a family or with an adult that never had a child before.

    Alexis- I also agree with your comment about the 911 operators question to mom bring about how long the child had likely been missing, not how long since they realized he was gone and had been actively searching.

    This reminds me of the Madeline McCann case a bit. Where I am left wondering if something accidental happened to the child earlier in the day or overnight. They go “shopping” to dispose of his body (sorry! I know that is harsh). Come back and then say he went missing in the woods. I can’t imagine the send of leaving a fast moving three year old in the care of an elderly man who has to tug oxygen around behind him. Especially if there is water nearby.

  • JoLane

    JoLane Virginia

    Maybe I’ve missed something but if the grandfather needed someone to take care of him why was he left in charge of watching the little boy? The grandfather was ill so how was he capable of keeping up with a 2 year old.

    Maybe I’ve missed something but if the grandfather needed someone to take care of him why was he left in charge of watching the little boy? The grandfather was ill so how was he capable of keeping up with a 2 year old.

  • Angie

    Angie Arizona

    Hi guys! 2 notes: Please don’t assume you know what most women know about their cycles, let alone use it against one. I’m almost 40 and have never tracked mine (sheer forgetfulness) as of this moment I couldn’t tell you when the next period is or when I had my last one lol. As for the case... My suspicion lies more with mom, but that dad knows. What struck me most was the interview in ep1- the father was talking over her a lot, and what you guys pegged as frantic I took more as him ensuring she doesn’t say something wrong, or wanting to control the conversation. Also, he seemed to gush a little too much about the sheriff dept, almost like he’s trying to flatter them, stay in their good graces? If I knew for a fact that my son went missing in that small campsite, and days later searchers still found no trace, I’d be questioning their competence, not praising their efforts.

    Hi guys! 2 notes: Please don’t assume you know what most women know about their cycles, let alone use it against one. I’m almost 40 and have never tracked mine (sheer forgetfulness) as of this moment I couldn’t tell you when the next period is or when I had my last one lol.
    As for the case... My suspicion lies more with mom, but that dad knows. What struck me most was the interview in ep1- the father was talking over her a lot, and what you guys pegged as frantic I took more as him ensuring she doesn’t say something wrong, or wanting to control the conversation. Also, he seemed to gush a little too much about the sheriff dept, almost like he’s trying to flatter them, stay in their good graces? If I knew for a fact that my son went missing in that small campsite, and days later searchers still found no trace, I’d be questioning their competence, not praising their efforts.

  • Michelle

    Michelle Durham, NC

    I agree with the Captain when he spoke about the police department throwing shade on the parents; I think, Nic, you are off base when you spoke about it being the family's job to answer the police statements about missing money with one if their own detailing where the rest of the money went. And here's why: First, The family has not been charged with anything, and so can't rely on a public attorney to advise them on how to act, react, or speak with the police. Very few people know how to counteract bad PR, or even understand when it's happening to them. Don't let your knowledge as a business owner make you fall into the fallacy of assuming that the parents understand that the money in the trust is public and therefore the public has the right to know how it is spent. That might never occur to them. And, in many cases, we are not always allowed to know where our money goes once it's been distributed to governmental organizations. Second, it's downright dirty politics to play out a criminal case in the court of public opinion. It usually backfires on the police department and/or district attorney that uses such tactics to pressure subjects to confess or deal. Casey Anthony is one such example; so are the parents of Jon-Benet Ramsey. Colorado police and attorneys all but stood on street corners with bullhorns accusing the parents of murdering their daughter. Several lawsuits later, they are a few million dollars worth of public money poorer, and the case remains unsolved. How dare any investigator or spokesperson accuse parents of knowing their daughter is dead, and lying about it? That they have done so is nothing short of malicious libel, criminal negligence, and besmirching the reputation of all Leo's who bust their ass to protect and serve victims everywhere. Whatever an investigator's private feelings are, this is about a missing child. I wouldn't trust that department to ensure the garbage is picked up safely in that town.

    I agree with the Captain when he spoke about the police department throwing shade on the parents; I think, Nic, you are off base when you spoke about it being the family's job to answer the police statements about missing money with one if their own detailing where the rest of the money went. And here's why:

    First, The family has not been charged with anything, and so can't rely on a public attorney to advise them on how to act, react, or speak with the police. Very few people know how to counteract bad PR, or even understand when it's happening to them. Don't let your knowledge as a business owner make you fall into the fallacy of assuming that the parents understand that the money in the trust is public and therefore the public has the right to know how it is spent. That might never occur to them. And, in many cases, we are not always allowed to know where our money goes once it's been distributed to governmental organizations.

    Second, it's downright dirty politics to play out a criminal case in the court of public opinion. It usually backfires on the police department and/or district attorney that uses such tactics to pressure subjects to confess or deal. Casey Anthony is one such example; so are the parents of Jon-Benet Ramsey. Colorado police and attorneys all but stood on street corners with bullhorns accusing the parents of murdering their daughter. Several lawsuits later, they are a few million dollars worth of public money poorer, and the case remains unsolved.

    How dare any investigator or spokesperson accuse parents of knowing their daughter is dead, and lying about it? That they have done so is nothing short of malicious libel, criminal negligence, and besmirching the reputation of all Leo's who bust their ass to protect and serve victims everywhere.

    Whatever an investigator's private feelings are, this is about a missing child. I wouldn't trust that department to ensure the garbage is picked up safely in that town.

  • Angie

    Angie Arizona

    Had another thought - were drugs involved? We’ve heard stories of parents getting doped up and rolling over on a kid. Say they get high, accidentally smother him, wake up to him dead and panic. Explains the lapses in memory, time anomalies, and the guilt the parents feel.

    Had another thought - were drugs involved? We’ve heard stories of parents getting doped up and rolling over on a kid. Say they get high, accidentally smother him, wake up to him dead and panic. Explains the lapses in memory, time anomalies, and the guilt the parents feel.

  • Greg

    Greg NJ

    I was thinking right from Pt. 1: what is the parental history of both of these people? This is something I'm sure investigators jumped right on - did they have any previous interaction with Child Protective Services? The case of the Harts 1+ years ago particularly brings that question to mind.

    I was thinking right from Pt. 1: what is the parental history of both of these people? This is something I'm sure investigators jumped right on - did they have any previous interaction with Child Protective Services? The case of the Harts 1+ years ago particularly brings that question to mind.

  • Michelle

    Michelle NY

    Luke, the first thing I thought of when I was listening to these episodes was The Cry. While it's a fictional show, it presents a scenario I had never thought of before, and something that could even apply to this case. If you guys haven't watched it, it is DEFINITELY recommended viewing. The first thing that struck me about this entire case was listening to the first interview the parents gave. Up until that point, anything was possible -- animal, abduction, creek. Listening to that interview, I focused more on the tone and the cadence instead of the words. The father constantly talks over and interrupts the mother; how he's constantly talking, but not really saying anything'; how the mother is not allowed to express how she feels. The father is trying to control the narrative and what is being presented. When I listened to that interview, I was 100% sure they had something to do with this child's disappearance. Whether it was an accident, discipline that went too far, abuse, or whatever, I believe they had something to do with it. The great grandfather and the weird friend were brought along to be scapegoats. Why would an elderly man who relies on oxygen go camping in a place that remote? It defies logic! His age, and the simpleness of the friend Isaac, was something that the parents thought they could use to their advantage -- minds they thought they could easily mold to a story that makes no sense. This is one of those stories that makes me so frustrated and sad at the same time.

    Luke, the first thing I thought of when I was listening to these episodes was The Cry. While it's a fictional show, it presents a scenario I had never thought of before, and something that could even apply to this case. If you guys haven't watched it, it is DEFINITELY recommended viewing.

    The first thing that struck me about this entire case was listening to the first interview the parents gave. Up until that point, anything was possible -- animal, abduction, creek. Listening to that interview, I focused more on the tone and the cadence instead of the words. The father constantly talks over and interrupts the mother; how he's constantly talking, but not really saying anything'; how the mother is not allowed to express how she feels. The father is trying to control the narrative and what is being presented. When I listened to that interview, I was 100% sure they had something to do with this child's disappearance. Whether it was an accident, discipline that went too far, abuse, or whatever, I believe they had something to do with it. The great grandfather and the weird friend were brought along to be scapegoats. Why would an elderly man who relies on oxygen go camping in a place that remote? It defies logic! His age, and the simpleness of the friend Isaac, was something that the parents thought they could use to their advantage -- minds they thought they could easily mold to a story that makes no sense.

    This is one of those stories that makes me so frustrated and sad at the same time.

  • Paul

    Paul Lancashire

    The only thing that didn't make sense was why the "family friend" would enter into a conspiracy to protect the family (or vice versa). I presume the credit card with "purchases unknown to investigators in testimony" made by a "family friend" is something that might be being used as blackmail. If they can find something to give the "family friend" a reason to corroborate the parents' story then I can't see any other reasonable alternative...

    The only thing that didn't make sense was why the "family friend" would enter into a conspiracy to protect the family (or vice versa). I presume the credit card with "purchases unknown to investigators in testimony" made by a "family friend" is something that might be being used as blackmail. If they can find something to give the "family friend" a reason to corroborate the parents' story then I can't see any other reasonable alternative...

  • Wing

    Wing Seattle

    A couple thoughts... - camo jacket: kids grow out of stuff so fast, typically when parents buy a specific clothing item, they only get one of that SIZE. If camo is their ‘thing’, then the jacket found at the apartment has to either be one he’s already grown out of, or it’s new (tags on). Was there ever a statement from the mother about it? - insurance tracking device: I’m guessing it’s one of those tracking things that tracks driving behavior/habits for higher or lower rates. My husband had one of those, it tracks hard brakes...what hours you drive...etc. and decreases the “good driver discount” the more risky it determines you are - leaving him with grandfather: given the isolated-ness of the area, it is possible they thought it’d be ok to leave him with grandpa, other than running into the water or woods, it seems he was old enough to be obedient..especially in that environment

    A couple thoughts...

    - camo jacket: kids grow out of stuff so fast, typically when parents buy a specific clothing item, they only get one of that SIZE. If camo is their ‘thing’, then the jacket found at the apartment has to either be one he’s already grown out of, or it’s new (tags on). Was there ever a statement from the mother about it?

    - insurance tracking device: I’m guessing it’s
    one of those tracking things that tracks driving behavior/habits for higher or lower rates. My husband had one of those, it tracks hard brakes...what hours you drive...etc. and decreases the “good driver discount” the more risky it determines you are

    - leaving him with grandfather: given the isolated-ness of the area, it is possible they thought it’d be ok to leave him with grandpa, other than running into the water or woods, it seems he was old enough to be obedient..especially in that environment

  • Christina

    Christina Indiana

    I don’t find the “tampon run” story to be unlikely at all. Many women’s cycles don’t run like clockwork and you might get a surprise here and there. The last two places I’ve worked have kept an “emergency” stash of feminine products in the women’s restroom for just such occasions.

    I don’t find the “tampon run” story to be unlikely at all. Many women’s cycles don’t run like clockwork and you might get a surprise here and there. The last two places I’ve worked have kept an “emergency” stash of feminine products in the women’s restroom for just such occasions.

  • Mamo

    Mamo Canada

    I've watched various videos of the dad, he has me mostly beleiving he doesn't know what happened to his son. The mother's behaviour is very strange, she is looking down a lot, seemingly avoidant. It doesn't mean 100% she did anything but doesn't look great. Reminds me of when I was forced to lie at a meeting for a psych class project, it was extremely uncomfortable and I'm pretty sure my body language and speech was very similar to the way hers is in her video interviews. Also her history and what she did after her son went missing (quick relationship) doesn't do her any favours in terms of image.

    I've watched various videos of the dad, he has me mostly beleiving he doesn't know what happened to his son. The mother's behaviour is very strange, she is looking down a lot, seemingly avoidant. It doesn't mean 100% she did anything but doesn't look great. Reminds me of when I was forced to lie at a meeting for a psych class project, it was extremely uncomfortable and I'm pretty sure my body language and speech was very similar to the way hers is in her video interviews. Also her history and what she did after her son went missing (quick relationship) doesn't do her any favours in terms of image.

  • Mel

    Mel A long way away

    I completely agree with Michelle and Zana- that is how I heard it. I thought a few things- I cant find a scenario where the family would cover for Isaac, or where Isaac would cover for the family. If either side had dirt on the other, I think it would have come out. The interview with the parents- I cant imagine the stress, the despair and the anxiety they must have been feeling, but I felt like shaking the father for being such a control freak! His partner was not allowed to speak! He shut her up every time! My other thought was on the description of entry to the campground. The sheriff described how anyone coming in would have been seen, due to the size of the campground. This only matters if grandpa was awake, and not dozing. Also, there must have been another entrance, given that someone was able to come in and sprinkle the cremains of a loved one without being stopped by law enforcement.

    I completely agree with Michelle and Zana- that is how I heard it.
    I thought a few things- I cant find a scenario where the family would cover for Isaac, or where Isaac would cover for the family. If either side had dirt on the other, I think it would have come out.
    The interview with the parents- I cant imagine the stress, the despair and the anxiety they must have been feeling, but I felt like shaking the father for being such a control freak! His partner was not allowed to speak! He shut her up every time!
    My other thought was on the description of entry to the campground. The sheriff described how anyone coming in would have been seen, due to the size of the campground. This only matters if grandpa was awake, and not dozing. Also, there must have been another entrance, given that someone was able to come in and sprinkle the cremains of a loved one without being stopped by law enforcement.

  • Kiki

    Kiki Parts Unknown

    Hey Captain, Long time listener, first time commenter... Just a note about women knowing their cycle... a bit mansplanie there bud but I love you so I’ll let that slide. Here are the womanly facts you seek... a lot of women don’t know their cycle. Many women have irregular cycles all their life. You only really “know” if you are on birth control and even then it can vary one or two days from when you think it might be. Some medications, lifestyles and extreme or changing body mass can affect a woman’s cycle... anywho my final point is that Jessica has given away two kids and lost one kid so she don’t know her cycle bro lol Love your jibs mates

    Hey Captain,

    Long time listener, first time commenter...

    Just a note about women knowing their cycle... a bit mansplanie there bud but I love you so I’ll let that slide. Here are the womanly facts you seek... a lot of women don’t know their cycle. Many women have irregular cycles all their life. You only really “know” if you are on birth control and even then it can vary one or two days from when you think it might be. Some medications, lifestyles and extreme or changing body mass can affect a woman’s cycle... anywho my final point is that Jessica has given away two kids and lost one kid so she don’t know her cycle bro lol

    Love your jibs mates

  • Jon Cook

    Jon Cook Buckeye Country

    5:15 my friends

    5:15 my friends

  • Eva

    Eva Boise, ID

    I noticed a lot of people posted about the insurance tracking device. I'm an insurance agent in Idaho and there are a few companies that offer this including progressive, safeco, state farm, and allied (nationwide). Depending on the company location is tracked, but most only track driving habits and distance. More than likely there's nothing to that box and the tracker.

    I noticed a lot of people posted about the insurance tracking device. I'm an insurance agent in Idaho and there are a few companies that offer this including progressive, safeco, state farm, and allied (nationwide). Depending on the company location is tracked, but most only track driving habits and distance. More than likely there's nothing to that box and the tracker.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    I didn’t find the tampon run to be strange at all. I think most of us - women and even men (husband/ boyfriend) have experienced a surprise need for a run to CVS. Also as stated in an earlier comment - it’s clear to me now for some reason I heard the Sheriff say “knows the family” when he actually said “knows a family”. This clears up that for me. Regarding the credit card purchases.... to be clear the purchases made by a family friend I strongly don’t think they mean Isaac who was on the camping trip. Again I see no reason for Isaac to cover for the parents or the parents to cover for Isaac. This is a strange and interesting case. You can tell by the episode length we could have done 4 parts on this thing. There are things we didn’t get to like the Parents never got married. They split up not too long after DeOrr’s disappearance and Jessica got married to someone else - I think it was 8 months after. I hope they gave him away and that DeOrr is happy and healthy in a family that wants him and treats him well. Cheers Nic

    I didn’t find the tampon run to be strange at all. I think most of us - women and even men (husband/ boyfriend) have experienced a surprise need for a run to CVS.
    Also as stated in an earlier comment - it’s clear to me now for some reason I heard the Sheriff say “knows the family” when he actually said “knows a family”. This clears up that for me.
    Regarding the credit card purchases.... to be clear the purchases made by a family friend I strongly don’t think they mean Isaac who was on the camping trip. Again I see no reason for Isaac to cover for the parents or the parents to cover for Isaac. This is a strange and interesting case. You can tell by the episode length we could have done 4 parts on this thing. There are things we didn’t get to like the Parents never got married. They split up not too long after DeOrr’s disappearance and Jessica got married to someone else - I think it was 8 months after.
    I hope they gave him away and that DeOrr is happy and healthy in a family that wants him and treats him well.
    Cheers Nic

  • Jarvis

    Jarvis Kansas

    Wow, how odd someone is spreading ashes during an early investigation and at the very time dogs are trying to find little DeOrr.

    Wow, how odd someone is spreading ashes during an early investigation and at the very time dogs are trying to find little DeOrr.

  • Abby H

    Abby H

    Their statement rubs me entirely the wrong way. I get everyone acts differently to trauma, but who in the world spends more time talking about how great the volunteers are & how they have such advanced search equipment than talking about your missing child!?!?! Have to completely agree with you Nic about their discussing the possible sighting. I actually skipped back after hearing that part to listen again & make sure I caught that correctly. It seems quite odd that you would insinuate that you believe your child was abducted, but when asked what rumors they would like to address, they bring up the possible sighting? Why would this be so quickly dismissed by the family as nothing more than a rumor? They say the “problem” with that is Dad drives a black truck & they hadn’t left camp since way earlier in the day, but that doesn’t negate the possibility. Next, when asked how they are holding up, they say all the family support then throw in hope at end. Found it interesting that was secondary. Also suspicious, they do not mention him by name until over 9 minutes into the interview which is the one & only time he’s mentioned by name by the parents. I did find it interesting in the Sheriffs statement when he stated that Isaac has been very truthful. But when asked about parents/gpa, he never uses the world truthful. He only says they’ve been cooperative & that he feels “real good” about them. I have to say I do believe DeOrr was at the camp site, but he never returned from their trip in town. It was likely a ruse for Jessica to ask Isaac to show her where to fish while Vernal maybe spread down the blanket, cup, & monkey making it appear as if the child had been there. Gpa was probably fast asleep.

    Their statement rubs me entirely the wrong way. I get everyone acts differently to trauma, but who in the world spends more time talking about how great the volunteers are & how they have such advanced search equipment than talking about your missing child!?!?! Have to completely agree with you Nic about their discussing the possible sighting. I actually skipped back after hearing that part to listen again & make sure I caught that correctly. It seems quite odd that you would insinuate that you believe your child was abducted, but when asked what rumors they would like to address, they bring up the possible sighting? Why would this be so quickly dismissed by the family as nothing more than a rumor? They say the “problem” with that is Dad drives a black truck & they hadn’t left camp since way earlier in the day, but that doesn’t negate the possibility. Next, when asked how they are holding up, they say all the family support then throw in hope at end. Found it interesting that was secondary. Also suspicious, they do not mention him by name until over 9 minutes into the interview which is the one & only time he’s mentioned by name by the parents.

    I did find it interesting in the Sheriffs statement when he stated that Isaac has been very truthful. But when asked about parents/gpa, he never uses the world truthful. He only says they’ve been cooperative & that he feels “real good” about them.

    I have to say I do believe DeOrr was at the camp site, but he never returned from their trip in town. It was likely a ruse for Jessica to ask Isaac to show her where to fish while Vernal maybe spread down the blanket, cup, & monkey making it appear as if the child had been there. Gpa was probably fast asleep.

  • Fallin

    Fallin Wisconsin

    They said they found an insurance tracking box .I would think that is what is put in your car for your insurance company to see how many times you hard brake ,or how fast you are driving can help lower your car insurance or make it go up

    They said they found an insurance tracking box .I would think that is what is put in your car for your insurance company to see how many times you hard brake ,or how fast you are driving can help lower your car insurance or make it go up

  • Sarah

    Sarah PA

    Sorry, Captain, but periods can be random and it isn't that shocking to find yourself without a tampon.

    Sorry, Captain, but periods can be random and it isn't that shocking to find yourself without a tampon.

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    Alright, so here are my thoughts on this: I believe that DeOrr passed away due to some form of negligence or fault of the parents at the campsite during the first night there. When they realize this they set into motion a plan to create an alibi and a scenario that is impossible to solve because its not truthful. Let’s say he wandered out of the car while the parents were sleeping. They discover him before anyone else wakes up and panic. They say they are going to drive into town for gas (um who needs gas once you reached your location where you plan on staying?) and the mom says for tampons. But really they need time away to come up with a plan. Maybe they take DeOrr’s body with them and somewhere along that 7 mile lonely stretch of road they get out and bury him. Then when they get back to camp they realize Isaac is now awake and they are going to be getting out of the car without DeOrr. So Jessica says I will jump out and ask him to show me some fishing spots. This will get Isaac away from the site so that Vernal can pretend to get DeOrr from the car and or possibly clean up evidence or get rid of evidence or plant evidence. As they are walking Jessica turns around to “talk to DeOrr” as if he is there behind them so that Isaac will believe the ruse. But she wasn’t talking to anyone. DeOrr was never following her then turned to go back like she said. Isaac does what a lot of us do and accepts as a fact that DeOrr is walking behind them following them, which his brain can then manufacture into a memory that he actually saw DeOrr, when in fact he didn’t. It was simply suggested to him that he saw him based on Jessica’s behavior that was intended to give the impression DeOrr was there, and would otherwise be irrational, if he truly wasn’t there. This is important because we are highly unlikely to manufacture memories that conflict with the rational part of our brain. But if it seems plausible, our brains can very easily “get with the program” and make a false memory, and what actually never happened can suddenly seem very real, because it is in fact a “memory.” Once Vernal is done he joins them at the creek and the rest as they say is history. I think the dad talking over the mom was because he didn’t want her to slip up and say anything. Hence all the interrupting. I think the only wild card they didn’t figure on is the grandpa, but they figured they could just gaslight the old man and he would agree that he agreed to watch DeOrr if asked. But instead he says no one ever asked me to watch him. But in the end it doesn’t matter anyway because everyone writes him off as an old man. That’s my hypothesis.

    Alright, so here are my thoughts on this:

    I believe that DeOrr passed away due to some form of negligence or fault of the parents at the campsite during the first night there. When they realize this they set into motion a plan to create an alibi and a scenario that is impossible to solve because its not truthful. Let’s say he wandered out of the car while the parents were sleeping. They discover him before anyone else wakes up and panic. They say they are going to drive into town for gas (um who needs gas once you reached your location where you plan on staying?) and the mom says for tampons. But really they need time away to come up with a plan. Maybe they take DeOrr’s body with them and somewhere along that 7 mile lonely stretch of road they get out and bury him. Then when they get back to camp they realize Isaac is now awake and they are going to be getting out of the car without DeOrr. So Jessica says I will jump out and ask him to show me some fishing spots. This will get Isaac away from the site so that Vernal can pretend to get DeOrr from the car and or possibly clean up evidence or get rid of evidence or plant evidence. As they are walking Jessica turns around to “talk to DeOrr” as if he is there behind them so that Isaac will believe the ruse. But she wasn’t talking to anyone. DeOrr was never following her then turned to go back like she said. Isaac does what a lot of us do and accepts as a fact that DeOrr is walking behind them following them, which his brain can then manufacture into a memory that he actually saw DeOrr, when in fact he didn’t. It was simply suggested to him that he saw him based on Jessica’s behavior that was intended to give the impression DeOrr was there, and would otherwise be irrational, if he truly wasn’t there. This is important because we are highly unlikely to manufacture memories that conflict with the rational part of our brain. But if it seems plausible, our brains can very easily “get with the program” and make a false memory, and what actually never happened can suddenly seem very real, because it is in fact a “memory.” Once Vernal is done he joins them at the creek and the rest as they say is history. I think the dad talking over the mom was because he didn’t want her to slip up and say anything. Hence all the interrupting. I think the only wild card they didn’t figure on is the grandpa, but they figured they could just gaslight the old man and he would agree that he agreed to watch DeOrr if asked. But instead he says no one ever asked me to watch him. But in the end it doesn’t matter anyway because everyone writes him off as an old man. That’s my hypothesis.

  • Kimberly

    Kimberly Austin, TX

    This may be answered above, but I think that the insurance tracking device box is something for auto insurance. I remember one of the big insurance companies offered this device that could be plugged into your vehicle, and it would monitor your driving. If you were a good driver, they would look at the data and give you a better rate. Totally a guess - but that was my first thought. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/car-insurance/how-do-those-car-insurance-tracking-devices-work

    This may be answered above, but I think that the insurance tracking device box is something for auto insurance. I remember one of the big insurance companies offered this device that could be plugged into your vehicle, and it would monitor your driving. If you were a good driver, they would look at the data and give you a better rate. Totally a guess - but that was my first thought.
    https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/car-insurance/how-do-those-car-insurance-tracking-devices-work

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    Also, while I am thinking about it....I mentioned this on Facebook in your defense as well, so I will say it here too: In all fairness, women who don't know when they are going to start are the exception to the rule. The whole field of obstetrics is based on the premise that a cycle lasts 28-30 days so if you are pregnant and need to calculate the due date before an ultrasound (which is also needed to even know when to schedule an ultrasound) then you work backward from the first day of your last period. Because that would give an approximate time of ovulation (day 14 of cycle) and help know when you were fertile (days 13,14,15, & 16) with fertilization taking place up to two days after sex. So i do get that some women don't keep track, or some are irregular, but since that is the exception to the rule, I wouldn't expect two dudes to know that lol Not sure what any of this has to do with this case or why some listeners have their undies in a bundle about it, but as a life long woman ;) I can comfortably say you guys were accurate for 86% of women. And that's not a made up statistic either! Google baby. Further, your attempt to explain it and make sense of it was endearing and I think the women in your lives are lucky to have such open and knowledgeable men!

    Also, while I am thinking about it....I mentioned this on Facebook in your defense as well, so I will say it here too:

    In all fairness, women who don't know when they are going to start are the exception to the rule. The whole field of obstetrics is based on the premise that a cycle lasts 28-30 days so if you are pregnant and need to calculate the due date before an ultrasound (which is also needed to even know when to schedule an ultrasound) then you work backward from the first day of your last period. Because that would give an approximate time of ovulation (day 14 of cycle) and help know when you were fertile (days 13,14,15, & 16) with fertilization taking place up to two days after sex. So i do get that some women don't keep track, or some are irregular, but since that is the exception to the rule, I wouldn't expect two dudes to know that lol

    Not sure what any of this has to do with this case or why some listeners have their undies in a bundle about it, but as a life long woman wink I can comfortably say you guys were accurate for 86% of women. And that's not a made up statistic either! Google baby. Further, your attempt to explain it and make sense of it was endearing and I think the women in your lives are lucky to have such open and knowledgeable men!

  • Christina

    Christina Waxhaw, NC

    I'm only half way through the first episode, but I've been SUPER bothered by the fact that, when talking with the 911 operator and in answering her question about what the boy IS wearing, the mom says "he WAS wearing" instead of something like "he's wearing..." I dunno. I think using the past tense is odd.

    I'm only half way through the first episode, but I've been SUPER bothered by the fact that, when talking with the 911 operator and in answering her question about what the boy IS wearing, the mom says "he WAS wearing" instead of something like "he's wearing..." I dunno. I think using the past tense is odd.

  • Crissie

    Crissie Dallas

    Insurance tracking device.. when I switched to State Farm insurance they wanted me to put a GPS RIGHT tracking device in my car so they could see how far I drive to and from work, how many miles I put on my car, how fast I drive, etc. I threw it away too. Don’t blame them for that! A company I worked for had similar devices on all the pool cars and we could be fined for exceeding speed limits Progressive insurance also uses these devices .. the call it snapshot. If they drove someplace incriminating, the insurance company would have a record

    Insurance tracking device.. when I switched to State Farm insurance they wanted me to put a GPS RIGHT tracking device in my car so they could see how far I drive to and from work, how many miles I put on my car, how fast I drive, etc. I threw it away too. Don’t blame them for that! A company I worked for had similar devices on all the pool cars and we could be fined for exceeding speed limits

    Progressive insurance also uses these devices .. the call it snapshot.

    If they drove someplace incriminating, the insurance company would have a record

  • Noah

    Noah Oregon

    If you listen to Isaac's interview, he says that DeOrr's mother would not look at him in the face as she was telling him that her son was missing. That is a clue.

    If you listen to Isaac's interview, he says that DeOrr's mother would not look at him in the face as she was telling him that her son was missing. That is a clue.

  • Grimtt

    Grimtt NC

    Really interesting case. I usually wait til all episode parts come out cause the suspense is too much otherwise! Agree with the general consensus here, also, regarding g’pa if Jessica was his caretaker she might’ve been able to slip him something to make him sleep/and or forget small events that happened. We’ve all done Ambien shopping, right? (I don’t mean forget he saw the kid murdered, just when/where he saw DeOrr last.)

    Really interesting case. I usually wait til all episode parts come out cause the suspense is too much otherwise! Agree with the general consensus here, also, regarding g’pa if Jessica was his caretaker she might’ve been able to slip him something to make him sleep/and or forget small events that happened. We’ve all done Ambien shopping, right? (I don’t mean forget he saw the kid murdered, just when/where he saw DeOrr last.)

  • Jenn

    Jenn FL

    There's an interview done with Isaac where you can see him flipping something around in his hand & when you really look at it, it was a freaking bullet that he's playing with...The ENTIRE time that he's on camera! Watching him during that interview had the hair on the back of my neck standing up. I'm not sure if it was during the interview y'all played, the documentary Missing 4-1-1 that covered baby DeOrr's case in one of the segments OR another, but I don't think that he's done many media interviews. I'll try to find it & post the link here. I also know that during that Missing 4-1-1 doc, a close family friend agreed to be a part of it & "Big DeOrr" showed up while she was on camera because he had been instructed by Jessica (who was pissed about the entire situation) to stop her. The friend was very upset & he told her to do what she needed to do & not to worry about what Jessica did or said, he would talk to her. Unless that baby was accidentally killed while they were doing something stupid OR blatantly being negligent, I can't imagine that Little DeOrr died accidentally & they hid his body so well that nobody has ever found him. As a parent, if my child was killed in an accident, NOT only would 9-1-1 be called instantly, You'd have to pry him out of my arms. My opinion, to say there was an accident causing a toddler to die & both parents, the grandfather & the creepyass friend managed to keep their mouths shut is nothing but some 1st class Casey Anthony bullshit...

    There's an interview done with Isaac where you can see him flipping something around in his hand & when you really look at it, it was a freaking bullet that he's playing with...The ENTIRE time that he's on camera! Watching him during that interview had the hair on the back of my neck standing up. I'm not sure if it was during the interview y'all played, the documentary Missing 4-1-1 that covered baby DeOrr's case in one of the segments OR another, but I don't think that he's done many media interviews. I'll try to find it & post the link here. I also know that during that Missing 4-1-1 doc, a close family friend agreed to be a part of it & "Big DeOrr" showed up while she was on camera because he had been instructed by Jessica (who was pissed about the entire situation) to stop her. The friend was very upset & he told her to do what she needed to do & not to worry about what Jessica did or said, he would talk to her.

    Unless that baby was accidentally killed while they were doing something stupid OR blatantly being negligent, I can't imagine that Little DeOrr died accidentally & they hid his body so well that nobody has ever found him. As a parent, if my child was killed in an accident, NOT only would 9-1-1 be called instantly, You'd have to pry him out of my arms.

    My opinion, to say there was an accident causing a toddler to die & both parents, the grandfather & the creepyass friend managed to keep their mouths shut is nothing but some 1st class Casey Anthony bullshit...

  • Misha

    Misha Canada

    I am wondering if anyone interviewed or asked questions about the biological father. Could the others have tried to hide the boy from his father for some reason?

    I am wondering if anyone interviewed or asked questions about the biological father. Could the others have tried to hide the boy from his father for some reason?

  • Brandy

    Brandy Fort Worth, Texas

    Such a sad story. I also have an insurance tracker given to me via my insurance company State Farm it tracks mileage and driving via my phone while I’m logged into the app it’s a discount incentive a lot of auto insurance companies are starting to implement it.

    Such a sad story. I also have an insurance tracker given to me via my insurance company State Farm it tracks mileage and driving via my phone while I’m logged into the app it’s a discount incentive a lot of auto insurance companies are starting to implement it.

  • carole

    carole nevada

    My very first impression before even listening to the entire podcast was why would they leave the child with grandpa? You stated that the mother was hired to take care of grandpa because he was in bad health with oxygen. If I was hired to look after my grandpa there is no way I would leave my 2 year old with him because I would know he wouldn't be capable of taking care of the child because I was being paid to take of grandpa. And then Jessica throwing some suspicion on Issac with the shovel and that he was odd doesn't make sense because Jessica was with Issac who was showing her fishing sites when the child went missing according to Jessica herself. And if the grandpa was on oxygen and having to carry the tank how would he be able to use the shovel?

    My very first impression before even listening to the entire podcast was why would they leave the child with grandpa? You stated that the mother was hired to take care of grandpa because he was in bad health with oxygen. If I was hired to look after my grandpa there is no way I would leave my 2 year old with him because I would know he wouldn't be capable of taking care of the child because I was being paid to take of grandpa. And then Jessica throwing some suspicion on Issac with the shovel and that he was odd doesn't make sense because Jessica was with Issac who was showing her fishing sites when the child went missing according to Jessica herself. And if the grandpa was on oxygen and having to carry the tank how would he be able to use the shovel?

  • Det. Jimmy

    Det. Jimmy Parts Unknown

    Isaac at 27:40 -- "(She) couldn't really look at you in the face or anything. She hasn't been able to do that for a while. I don't know for what reason." Maybe Isaac is more perceptive than we give him credit for.

    Isaac at 27:40 -- "(She) couldn't really look at you in the face or anything. She hasn't been able to do that for a while. I don't know for what reason."

    Maybe Isaac is more perceptive than we give him credit for.

  • Shelley Sweat

    Shelley Sweat

    Okay, so I have a few comments. First, grandpa with an oxygen tank goes camping? Weird. Just an observation. Second, maybe with video it's different, and I am working as I listen, so perhaps I'm distracted, but the dad actually, to me, sounds convincing. It's the mom who sounds flat. I know, everyone reacts differently in these situations and we shouldn't judge, but we do. Third, I understood the police officer to mean if you know a family, any family, who did not have a 2-1/2 year old blonde boy and then, after the date of the Kunz camping trip, suddenly they have a 2-1/2 year old blonde boy, then call us... don't bother every family with a blonde kid and don't report all those sightings to us... maybe I just heard it wrong, but that's how it came across to me. The boots issue is troubling as is the fact that the dogs pick up no sign of DeOrr at the camp site. I sure hope this one is solved. Soon.

    Okay, so I have a few comments. First, grandpa with an oxygen tank goes camping? Weird. Just an observation. Second, maybe with video it's different, and I am working as I listen, so perhaps I'm distracted, but the dad actually, to me, sounds convincing. It's the mom who sounds flat. I know, everyone reacts differently in these situations and we shouldn't judge, but we do. Third, I understood the police officer to mean if you know a family, any family, who did not have a 2-1/2 year old blonde boy and then, after the date of the Kunz camping trip, suddenly they have a 2-1/2 year old blonde boy, then call us... don't bother every family with a blonde kid and don't report all those sightings to us... maybe I just heard it wrong, but that's how it came across to me. The boots issue is troubling as is the fact that the dogs pick up no sign of DeOrr at the camp site. I sure hope this one is solved. Soon.

  • Mamo

    Mamo Canada

    I agree with Det. Jimmy about Isaac. And the playing with the bullet? Not really a big deal. If he's a hunter, he may have some bullets around, I don't find that too strange.. it's a super country thing and you won't find many city dwellers doing that (or seeing that) so I can see why many would be shocked to see that.

    I agree with Det. Jimmy about Isaac.
    And the playing with the bullet? Not really a big deal. If he's a hunter, he may have some bullets around, I don't find that too strange.. it's a super country thing and you won't find many city dwellers doing that (or seeing that) so I can see why many would be shocked to see that.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you everyone for the Insurance tracking device info. We didn’t think of those when we were recording but discussed that after. A lot of people are posting what the tracking device is - so for the sake of conversation, I won’t continue to add those posts as it’s been posted many times. There is a lot of good theories and thoughts on here regarding the case and these four adults that were on the camping trip. One really good question that was asked... how long was the trip scheduled for? Unfortunately I don’t know, that was not info that I have found anywhere. If anyone knows please post. Cheers Nic

    Thank you everyone for the Insurance tracking device info. We didn’t think of those when we were recording but discussed that after. A lot of people are posting what the tracking device is - so for the sake of conversation, I won’t continue to add those posts as it’s been posted many times. There is a lot of good theories and thoughts on here regarding the case and these four adults that were on the camping trip. One really good question that was asked... how long was the trip scheduled for? Unfortunately I don’t know, that was not info that I have found anywhere. If anyone knows please post.
    Cheers Nic

  • dawg dude

    dawg dude canada

    What if the family is being 100% truthful? A little boy goes missing from a wilderness camp site. The Sheriffs first thought was animal attack. His own words " We have had many wolf reports in this area". A wildness area park friendly person/ worker finds evidence of the attack and hides it. Thinking an animal attack would be bad PR for the park. The person who finds the evidence justifies themselves by thinking "You should have been watching your kid more closely! The animals where here first!"

    What if the family is being 100% truthful? A little boy goes missing from a wilderness camp site. The Sheriffs first thought was animal attack. His own words " We have had many wolf reports in this area". A wildness area park friendly person/ worker finds evidence of the attack and hides it. Thinking an animal attack would be bad PR for the park. The person who finds the evidence justifies themselves by thinking "You should have been watching your kid more closely! The animals where here first!"

  • Deborah

    Deborah South Carolina

    Listening to the interview with the family friend, I didn’t hear him say he saw DeOrr only that he assumed he was behind him with the boy’s father. He was showing the mother where to fish. I don’t think the boy was ever there. They could have easily convinced the grandfather that he was watching the boy.

    Listening to the interview with the family friend, I didn’t hear him say he saw DeOrr only that he assumed he was behind him with the boy’s father. He was showing the mother where to fish. I don’t think the boy was ever there. They could have easily convinced the grandfather that he was watching the boy.

  • Liz

    Liz Idaho

    I live 30 minutes from this family. It hurts my heart. I ended up in a movie theater with No one else but my cousin and I , and Isaac Reinwand, in a theater watching ghost busters two. In my opinion he laughed at childish parts but seemed to miss the inappropriate (adult inuendos) parts. To me seemed very child like. I pray for baby Deorr everyday.

    I live 30 minutes from this family. It hurts my heart. I ended up in a movie theater with No one else but my cousin and I , and Isaac Reinwand, in a theater watching ghost busters two. In my opinion he laughed at childish parts but seemed to miss the inappropriate (adult inuendos) parts. To me seemed very child like. I pray for baby Deorr everyday.

  • Vimia

    Vimia DC

    As a mother who lost a child, I can attest to the fact that it is extremely difficult to part with any of his belongings. Those things are all I have left of my child. It is really odd that they just threw his things away. I'm with the folks who honed in on the fact that Isaac said Jessica wouldn't even look him in the face or eyes when the boy was missing. I don't think he is as "slow" as the episodes made him out to be; I think that's a tell about Jessica. Odd behavior. She doesn't sound torn up. Very strange that nobody remembers seeing them in town or that she'd leave baby boy with grandpa who clearly wasn't capable of caring for him. On the first interview of the episodes, the dad uses past tense when saying about volunteers... "they were as emotionally invested" in finding DeOrr. I don't like the past tense usage cause it makes it seem like he knows something. A 10 minute window is a very short time for someone to completely vanish in. This story makes me sad and angry. That poor beautiful boy. :(

    As a mother who lost a child, I can attest to the fact that it is extremely difficult to part with any of his belongings. Those things are all I have left of my child. It is really odd that they just threw his things away. I'm with the folks who honed in on the fact that Isaac said Jessica wouldn't even look him in the face or eyes when the boy was missing. I don't think he is as "slow" as the episodes made him out to be; I think that's a tell about Jessica. Odd behavior. She doesn't sound torn up. Very strange that nobody remembers seeing them in town or that she'd leave baby boy with grandpa who clearly wasn't capable of caring for him. On the first interview of the episodes, the dad uses past tense when saying about volunteers... "they were as emotionally invested" in finding DeOrr. I don't like the past tense usage cause it makes it seem like he knows something. A 10 minute window is a very short time for someone to completely vanish in. This story makes me sad and angry. That poor beautiful boy. frown

  • Camille

    Camille Battle Ground, WA

    I lived in this part of the country for several years; and in a National Forest campground like this one but in Utah a little boy also went missing but was eventually found downstream. I really do think it's possible he went in the water and just wasn't found, despite thorough searches. Also, I do NOT think it's weird that the granddad on oxygen went camping. If you've met any Intermountain-West old-timers, nothing stands between them, their camper, and a weekend sitting in a folding chair fishing and roasting hotdogs. I don't buy an abduction. I just don't. I think the little boy is still up there and searchers just haven't found him.

    I lived in this part of the country for several years; and in a National Forest campground like this one but in Utah a little boy also went missing but was eventually found downstream. I really do think it's possible he went in the water and just wasn't found, despite thorough searches.

    Also, I do NOT think it's weird that the granddad on oxygen went camping. If you've met any Intermountain-West old-timers, nothing stands between them, their camper, and a weekend sitting in a folding chair fishing and roasting hotdogs.

    I don't buy an abduction. I just don't. I think the little boy is still up there and searchers just haven't found him.

  • Spencer

    Spencer

    Posted this on the instagram page but thought I would migrate the thought to this board here. In regards to the interview: I had a different interpretation from the two of you about the interview being "frantic" and/or a sign that they might be telling the truth, or at a minimum, be somewhat distraught. I thought it was really interesting (and smart) that you played the interview first before offering any commentary, because I left that interview clip convinced that the parents murdered him. I think if you start with the context (namely that it was over 48 hours since the boy had went missing) and then you think about what we know in cases like that (that after 48 hours and no body, it likely means: dead, dead and raped, dead and tortured, alive and raped, alive and tortured, alive waiting to be killed) and then you throw in the fact the kid is two years old, it makes everything else seem really odd. I know a lot of people have discussed how the father keeps jumping in over the mother and how that's odd, but that's not really the part that got me. I think it's the father's weird excitement and fascination with law enforcement. The way he talks about the helicopters and search and rescue and everything else seems really odd, especially considering the context outlined above. I'm not going to call it happy, but it certainly does not seem "frantic" to me. The excitement, or positivity, or whatever you want to call it from the dad seems grossly out of place, and is contrasted starkly by his comments after he is told to address the kidnapper/boy directly. At that point, it seems like he remembers that he's supposed to be upset and sad, and his (as well as the mother's) whole demeanor changes. Can't wait for this case on ep. 57 of Off the Record?

    Posted this on the instagram page but thought I would migrate the thought to this board here.

    In regards to the interview: I had a different interpretation from the two of you about the interview being "frantic" and/or a sign that they might be telling the truth, or at a minimum, be somewhat distraught.

    I thought it was really interesting (and smart) that you played the interview first before offering any commentary, because I left that interview clip convinced that the parents murdered him. I think if you start with the context (namely that it was over 48 hours since the boy had went missing) and then you think about what we know in cases like that (that after 48 hours and no body, it likely means: dead, dead and raped, dead and tortured, alive and raped, alive and tortured, alive waiting to be killed) and then you throw in the fact the kid is two years old, it makes everything else seem really odd.

    I know a lot of people have discussed how the father keeps jumping in over the mother and how that's odd, but that's not really the part that got me. I think it's the father's weird excitement and fascination with law enforcement. The way he talks about the helicopters and search and rescue and everything else seems really odd, especially considering the context outlined above. I'm not going to call it happy, but it certainly does not seem "frantic" to me. The excitement, or positivity, or whatever you want to call it from the dad seems grossly out of place, and is contrasted starkly by his comments after he is told to address the kidnapper/boy directly. At that point, it seems like he remembers that he's supposed to be upset and sad, and his (as well as the mother's) whole demeanor changes.

    Can't wait for this case on ep. 57 of Off the Record?

  • ALW

    ALW

    I was struck by how much the Dad talked in the press interview. I had two feelings about it. One, that he seemed to thrive on being the center of attention. Two was that, as you guys noted, he kept interrupting with answers. I took it as him trying to control the discussion. If you just keep talking then people can’t ask what you can’t answer

    I was struck by how much the Dad talked in the press interview. I had two feelings about it. One, that he seemed to thrive on being the center of attention. Two was that, as you guys noted, he kept interrupting with answers. I took it as him trying to control the discussion. If you just keep talking then people can’t ask what you can’t answer

  • Mike A

    Mike A NJ

    In case someone didn't comment on the insurance tracking device, my guess is that it's one of those car insurance trackers that track your mileage to give you better insurance rates.

    In case someone didn't comment on the insurance tracking device, my guess is that it's one of those car insurance trackers that track your mileage to give you better insurance rates.

  • mG

    mG tX

    Knew nothing about this case prior. However, after listening to the press conference at the very beginning, I quickly felt there was something wrong with the parents, especially dad. Your baby is missing and all the dad wants to talk about is how cool and awesome the Sheriff's department is. He did not strike me as someone concerned about the missing child. The mom seemed to be sticking to a script of cliches seen in movies of mothers with missing children. Dad would jump in and finish her sentences so as to control the proceedings. It struck me as an act. Three separate investigations could find no evidence or proof of an abduction or the child wandering off. Nic, I also believe that child was missing prior to the incident described in the 9-11 call. I think the kid probably died through some negligence and the trip was devised to cover for two panicked parents. Think of how easy it would be to convince two people of limited physical and mental abilities that there was in fact a toddler on the trip. You just have to say he was napping or describe to them some fictitious thing he did a few minutes ago, that they did not see. Do you really think the grandfather and his friend were that interested or involved in what the two year old was doing. And Captain, you seemed to try in vain to play devil's advocate here by just repeating "throwing shade" fifty times. But in the end, when the parent's story began to crumble, they started to point at everybody. That is shade. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

    Knew nothing about this case prior. However, after listening to the press conference at the very beginning, I quickly felt there was something wrong with the parents, especially dad. Your baby is missing and all the dad wants to talk about is how cool and awesome the Sheriff's department is. He did not strike me as someone concerned about the missing child. The mom seemed to be sticking to a script of cliches seen in movies of mothers with missing children. Dad would jump in and finish her sentences so as to control the proceedings. It struck me as an act. Three separate investigations could find no evidence or proof of an abduction or the child wandering off. Nic, I also believe that child was missing prior to the incident described in the 9-11 call. I think the kid probably died through some negligence and the trip was devised to cover for two panicked parents. Think of how easy it would be to convince two people of limited physical and mental abilities that there was in fact a toddler on the trip. You just have to say he was napping or describe to them some fictitious thing he did a few minutes ago, that they did not see. Do you really think the grandfather and his friend were that interested or involved in what the two year old was doing. And Captain, you seemed to try in vain to play devil's advocate here by just repeating "throwing shade" fifty times. But in the end, when the parent's story began to crumble, they started to point at everybody. That is shade. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

  • Ells

    Ells PA

    I "lost" my daughter in my own home. It was terrifying. She was 2 at the time and my Son was 3. I had just gotten out of the shower, and my daughter had just woken up from a nap. I set both my kids up on the floor of my bedroom with toys to play with while I blow dryed my hair, in the SAME room. Not a huge bedroom at all. About 10 mins later I realized my daughter was no longer in the room, figured she just went to her room for something. A few mins later she didn't come back, I said to my Son where did she go and he said I don't know. So I walked into the hallway, checked her room, bathroom, and my Son's room. She wasn't there. I then went downstairs, the gate was shut but she did know how to open it, so I checked the other bathroom and all over downstairs. I couldn't find her. Panic set in thinking she got out of the house. At that point, I lost it. I ran outside screaming for her, running all over the place. I couldn't even think straight, I was hysterical. I ran back into the house, rechecked all the bedrooms, under the beds, in closets. I still can't tell you how long passed before I called my husband hysterical. He told me to call the police from the house phone. I didn't remember what she was wearing or how much time had passed, which at this point was about 45 mins. I continued to run through the house checking under things and in things and outside. I didn't know where I should focus my search on. In the home or outside. Finally the police arrived and they started searching inside and outside the home. Again I was totally blanking on what she was wearing , I was a wreck. About 15 mins into the police being there, I was searching my Son's room again, I fell getting up and fell into the wall. There was a very small opening where the bed frame and wall hit and she was squished in there, sitting nicely, smiling at me. She was their the ENTIRE time. She didn't have many words at the time, but she must have thought it was a game. I found out from my parents that a few weeks prior they had been babysitting and she did this hiding thing then as well, not as bad but she didn't make a peep. Needless to say anytime she does not answer me when I call ( she is almost 6 now) panic sets in and I get anxious. I think it's very easy for a child to wonder off, it's also very easy for others to think someone else is watching your kid when they are not. I also think it's very easy to get time frames mixed up and you tend to say what sounds better. I know for me I really didn't know how long things had been and I would say oh it was 15 mins or 10 mins and my husband who I called was like it was 45 mins. So though they say and think they only left DeOrr with Grandpa for 10 mins, it most likely was longer than that. And maybe he was missing for longer than an hour and they feel ashamed for saying they waited 2 hours or whatever to call. I know for me, sometimes when I tell my story I am sure some people will say, why did you wait so long to call the police while others would say you overreacted too quickly.

    I "lost" my daughter in my own home. It was terrifying. She was 2 at the time and my Son was 3. I had just gotten out of the shower, and my daughter had just woken up from a nap. I set both my kids up on the floor of my bedroom with toys to play with while I blow dryed my hair, in the SAME room. Not a huge bedroom at all. About 10 mins later I realized my daughter was no longer in the room, figured she just went to her room for something. A few mins later she didn't come back, I said to my Son where did she go and he said I don't know. So I walked into the hallway, checked her room, bathroom, and my Son's room. She wasn't there. I then went downstairs, the gate was shut but she did know how to open it, so I checked the other bathroom and all over downstairs. I couldn't find her. Panic set in thinking she got out of the house. At that point, I lost it. I ran outside screaming for her, running all over the place. I couldn't even think straight, I was hysterical. I ran back into the house, rechecked all the bedrooms, under the beds, in closets. I still can't tell you how long passed before I called my husband hysterical. He told me to call the police from the house phone. I didn't remember what she was wearing or how much time had passed, which at this point was about 45 mins. I continued to run through the house checking under things and in things and outside. I didn't know where I should focus my search on. In the home or outside. Finally the police arrived and they started searching inside and outside the home. Again I was totally blanking on what she was wearing , I was a wreck. About 15 mins into the police being there, I was searching my Son's room again, I fell getting up and fell into the wall. There was a very small opening where the bed frame and wall hit and she was squished in there, sitting nicely, smiling at me. She was their the ENTIRE time. She didn't have many words at the time, but she must have thought it was a game. I found out from my parents that a few weeks prior they had been babysitting and she did this hiding thing then as well, not as bad but she didn't make a peep. Needless to say anytime she does not answer me when I call ( she is almost 6 now) panic sets in and I get anxious.

    I think it's very easy for a child to wonder off, it's also very easy for others to think someone else is watching your kid when they are not. I also think it's very easy to get time frames mixed up and you tend to say what sounds better. I know for me I really didn't know how long things had been and I would say oh it was 15 mins or 10 mins and my husband who I called was like it was 45 mins. So though they say and think they only left DeOrr with Grandpa for 10 mins, it most likely was longer than that. And maybe he was missing for longer than an hour and they feel ashamed for saying they waited 2 hours or whatever to call. I know for me, sometimes when I tell my story I am sure some people will say, why did you wait so long to call the police while others would say you overreacted too quickly.

  • Richard

    Richard Netherlands

    The interview with the parents. A very strange response from the father. He says to the interviewer (and though him to the public) "Just be patient". Nic and the Cap call him frantic. What if he rambles on and on because he feels cornered by all the questions? Listen again and now with viewing him as being extremely defensive. Till he eventually even blurs out the interviewer has to be patient.

    The interview with the parents. A very strange response from the father. He says to the interviewer (and though him to the public) "Just be patient". Nic and the Cap call him frantic. What if he rambles on and on because he feels cornered by all the questions? Listen again and now with viewing him as being extremely defensive. Till he eventually even blurs out the interviewer has to be patient.

  • Robert

    Robert Norwich UK

    Some car insurers offer a tracking box to reduce insurance premiums.

    Some car insurers offer a tracking box to reduce insurance premiums.

  • Christina S

    Christina S

    I wonder if police or investigators ever looked into if the insurance tracker was used. It would be interesting to know their patterns prior to the event. Since it was in a home they abandoned it may be irrelevant, but just a thought especially since they also found credit card info worth looking at. I kind of take an Occam’s razor opinion on this. The parents were the last people with him. They’re in a remote area and there is zero evidence of him anywhere. I have a 16 year old and you can follow can probably track every step he’s taken in his life, he’s a messy boy! It’s pretty clear the mother was in the very least pretty irresponsible, they recently abandoned a home, she can’t hold a job other than babysitting her grandfather and has given up 2 other children. I think the investigator gave up because all roads led to the parents. Also, if she was just an overall irresponsible person, it’s easy to see that she would completely overlook needing tampons for a camping trip.

    I wonder if police or investigators ever looked into if the insurance tracker was used. It would be interesting to know their patterns prior to the event. Since it was in a home they abandoned it may be irrelevant, but just a thought especially since they also found credit card info worth looking at.
    I kind of take an Occam’s razor opinion on this. The parents were the last people with him. They’re in a remote area and there is zero evidence of him anywhere. I have a 16 year old and you can follow can probably track every step he’s taken in his life, he’s a messy boy!
    It’s pretty clear the mother was in the very least pretty irresponsible, they recently abandoned a home, she can’t hold a job other than babysitting her grandfather and has given up 2 other children. I think the investigator gave up because all roads led to the parents.
    Also, if she was just an overall irresponsible person, it’s easy to see that she would completely overlook needing tampons for a camping trip.

  • Sharon

    Sharon IN

    This is a sad case. 2 things bug me 1..did police ever check the parents vehicle for blood, etc 2...when someone reported a dirty blonde child crying at the gas station with a man, the dad said “ oh that was me”. I think a normal person would say that was probably me but please let’s talk to this person or see if they can identify me! I think the parents just don’t want kids in their life so they got rid of him. Hopefully they gave him to a better home

    This is a sad case. 2 things bug me
    1..did police ever check the parents vehicle for blood, etc
    2...when someone reported a dirty blonde child crying at the gas station with a man, the dad said “ oh that was me”. I think a normal person would say that was probably me but please let’s talk to this person or see if they can identify me!

    I think the parents just don’t want kids in their life so they got rid of him. Hopefully they gave him to a better home

  • joe

    joe dirt

    I'm on side of its the parents. No evidence has been found he was even there? Yeah, the grandpa and slow dude are good story covers because they know so little. Parents know where that little boy is.

    I'm on side of its the parents. No evidence has been found he was even there? Yeah, the grandpa and slow dude are good story covers because they know so little. Parents know where that little boy is.

  • joe

    joe dirt

    Thanks for the update Gio. Nick, u should do a bonus episode or something about cases that have since been solved since the show began.

    Thanks for the update Gio. Nick, u should do a bonus episode or something about cases that have since been solved since the show began.

  • Ty

    Ty Jackson

    I expect the "piece of equipment" the cadaver dogs hit on will turn out to be the shovel. This is a fascinating one, and the only animal (other than a human) that I can think of that might have snagged the child noiselessly and without leaving much (if any) trace would be some kind of cat (mountain lion). Wolves and bears tend to eat what they kill right there on the spot; cats often move their prey a long way before eating it. Sorry to suggest such unpleasant images, but if you read some of the classic books on man-eaters, like James Corbett's "Man-Eaters of Kumaon", you'll see examples. Side note: In Episode Two, Nic got a little heavy on the tabasco with my man, the Captain, around about the 50 minute mark. Good thing it's vacation time. XD Remember why you love each other, and what a beautiful thing you have going that is providing real help to real people who are suffering as a result of many of these cases, and let that show. My opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it. Appreciate you both!

    I expect the "piece of equipment" the cadaver dogs hit on will turn out to be the shovel.
    This is a fascinating one, and the only animal (other than a human) that I can think of that might have snagged the child noiselessly and without leaving much (if any) trace would be some kind of cat (mountain lion). Wolves and bears tend to eat what they kill right there on the spot; cats often move their prey a long way before eating it. Sorry to suggest such unpleasant images, but if you read some of the classic books on man-eaters, like James Corbett's "Man-Eaters of Kumaon", you'll see examples.
    Side note: In Episode Two, Nic got a little heavy on the tabasco with my man, the Captain, around about the 50 minute mark. Good thing it's vacation time. XD Remember why you love each other, and what a beautiful thing you have going that is providing real help to real people who are suffering as a result of many of these cases, and let that show. My opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it. Appreciate you both!

Add comment