Johnny Gosch ////// 57 

Johnny Gosch ////// 57 

TrueCrimeGarage.com 

Etan Patz, Jacob Wetterling, Beverly Potts, Steven Stayner, Adam Walsh and Elizabeth Smart few if any are more famous than the child abduction of Johnny Gosch. It's a typical horror story but this time the boogeyman is real and we don't know his name. Young Johnny lives in a wonderful neighborhood in West Des Moines, Iowa. He comes from a great family. He has a paper route and he saves his money. Recently he purchased the dirt bike he had always wanted. On Sunday, September 5, 1982 Johnny got up early to hit the pavement and deliver the Sunday newspaper just like he did every weekend. He went down to the corner and picked up the papers. He said hi to some of the other boys who were prepping for their morning routes. A vehicle stops and asks Johnny for directions and just like that 12 year old Johnny Gosch is gone! But this story is far from over. Join us in the garage for suds and speculation as we discuss the disappearance of young Johnny Gosch. 

Beer of the Week - Des Moines IPA by Confluence Brewing Company - Des Moines IOWA 
Garage Grade - 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of 5

60 comments

  • Josephine

    Josephine Washington

    I am super excited that y'all are taking on this case! I'm interested in what you said about Paul Binacci's siblings saying that he couldn't have been where he said he was in 1982. This is something that we circle back to on the Unresolved Disappearances subreddit when talking about this case - I've not been able to find a source for anyone who knows who Paul Binacci is or was prior to 1982. Binacci's story should be so easy to discredit. He says he was sold into a pedophile ring when he was 3 years old. Literally all it would take to disprove everything that his story hinges on would be for someone to produce school yearbooks to show he was enrolled in school, for his family to come forward and say "This is my brother/son/cousin, here are some family photos." Sensational claims about a person's past get broken all the time, but here we are decades later and no one seems to have addressed who this kid was prior to telling his story. Have you guys found any verifiable sources to say who this person was in 1982? Looove the show! I've been following since week one, you guys rule! I'm thrilled beyond reason that you're tackling my favorite cold case.

    I am super excited that y'all are taking on this case! I'm interested in what you said about Paul Binacci's siblings saying that he couldn't have been where he said he was in 1982. This is something that we circle back to on the Unresolved Disappearances subreddit when talking about this case - I've not been able to find a source for anyone who knows who Paul Binacci is or was prior to 1982.

    Binacci's story should be so easy to discredit. He says he was sold into a pedophile ring when he was 3 years old. Literally all it would take to disprove everything that his story hinges on would be for someone to produce school yearbooks to show he was enrolled in school, for his family to come forward and say "This is my brother/son/cousin, here are some family photos." Sensational claims about a person's past get broken all the time, but here we are decades later and no one seems to have addressed who this kid was prior to telling his story. Have you guys found any verifiable sources to say who this person was in 1982?

    Looove the show! I've been following since week one, you guys rule! I'm thrilled beyond reason that you're tackling my favorite cold case.

  • Richard

    Richard Texas

    Has anyone figured out who the guy in the van was? The reason I ask is because if he didn't appear to be "drunk" but had slurred speech, could it be that he was forced to try to grab Johnny? As if maybe the real culprits had his child or loved one and said he had to do it or something bad would happen. It could explain his behavior. Just a thought

    Has anyone figured out who the guy in the van was? The reason I ask is because if he didn't appear to be "drunk" but had slurred speech, could it be that he was forced to try to grab Johnny? As if maybe the real culprits had his child or loved one and said he had to do it or something bad would happen. It could explain his behavior. Just a thought

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Richard • Texas Interesting thought Richard thanks for sharing! Captain

    Richard • Texas

    Interesting thought Richard thanks for sharing!

    Captain

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Josephine • Washington I am glad we got to your favorite case. I will look into that more. Thanks Captain

    Josephine • Washington

    I am glad we got to your favorite case. I will look into that more. Thanks

    Captain

  • Jen

    Jen Houston

    Hey guys, just wanted to drop a quick comment about the therapist that said Bonacci can't lie because people with multiple personalities (now called Dissociative Identity Disorder) can't lie. That's seriously the weirdest thing I've ever heard. While it's totally true that DID seems to be related to coping with a trauma, the personalities formed are usually compartmentalizing certain aspects of yourself that already are there because your full self is overwhelming. Everybody is capable of lying and probably has a part of themselves that would lie given the chance. I hope I explained that well. A woman my father was engaged to when I was younger (back when it was still called multiple personality disorder) was diagnosed with it and specifically lived in a group home because her management of it wasn't under control enough to function well. She was an incredibly sweet woman, and very kind to my brother and I, so I remember her fondly. But she also had a kid version of herself personality that would lie about the silliest things, as well as a personality that would tell the wildest most outrageous stories about herself she could just to get a reaction out of people. So while Bonacci could have experienced trauma that legit manifested in DID, and he could actually be telling the truth, the notion that he couldn't lie because of his DID is fucking ridiculous. Shit, the whole reason the diagnosis of multiple personalities/DID is still so controversial is because it's hard to tell if someone with it is being honest. Sorry for the rant, it just blew my mind that the therapist said that, even back then. Been a big fan of the podcast since season 1 - you guys actually got me into true crime related podcasts. I look forward to the new episodes every week (and I LOVE it when you do two-parters because it means I get more). Keep up the good work! - Jen

    Hey guys, just wanted to drop a quick comment about the therapist that said Bonacci can't lie because people with multiple personalities (now called Dissociative Identity Disorder) can't lie. That's seriously the weirdest thing I've ever heard. While it's totally true that DID seems to be related to coping with a trauma, the personalities formed are usually compartmentalizing certain aspects of yourself that already are there because your full self is overwhelming. Everybody is capable of lying and probably has a part of themselves that would lie given the chance.

    I hope I explained that well. A woman my father was engaged to when I was younger (back when it was still called multiple personality disorder) was diagnosed with it and specifically lived in a group home because her management of it wasn't under control enough to function well. She was an incredibly sweet woman, and very kind to my brother and I, so I remember her fondly. But she also had a kid version of herself personality that would lie about the silliest things, as well as a personality that would tell the wildest most outrageous stories about herself she could just to get a reaction out of people.

    So while Bonacci could have experienced trauma that legit manifested in DID, and he could actually be telling the truth, the notion that he couldn't lie because of his DID is fucking ridiculous. Shit, the whole reason the diagnosis of multiple personalities/DID is still so controversial is because it's hard to tell if someone with it is being honest.

    Sorry for the rant, it just blew my mind that the therapist said that, even back then. Been a big fan of the podcast since season 1 - you guys actually got me into true crime related podcasts. I look forward to the new episodes every week (and I LOVE it when you do two-parters because it means I get more). Keep up the good work!

    - Jen

  • Fredrik

    Fredrik Sweden

    That police chief seems like a jerkface. And that Larry King threw me, for a while I thought it was the CNN guy you were talking about...

    That police chief seems like a jerkface. And that Larry King threw me, for a while I thought it was the CNN guy you were talking about...

  • Linda

    Linda Portland, OR

    First off great to hear you guys every week. I really miss the people from Cleveland, Ohio my home town, and OH in general. I work in mental health and am familiar with many mental disorders and illnesses. I gotta say, Paul Binacci just doesn't come across as speaking honestly. Even with possible multiple personality disorder, (of course I can't pretend to diagnose him) he would believe that he was telling the truth. It just doesn't seem (to me) that all of what he says is his truth. Some parts do though. It would be interesting to know his diagnosis at the time if the interview, if he had been diagnosed. Thanks for striving for the most excellent cut of your jib guys!

    First off great to hear you guys every week. I really miss the people from Cleveland, Ohio my home town, and OH in general.
    I work in mental health and am familiar with many mental disorders and illnesses. I gotta say, Paul Binacci just doesn't come across as speaking honestly. Even with possible multiple personality disorder, (of course I can't pretend to diagnose him) he would believe that he was telling the truth. It just doesn't seem (to me) that all of what he says is his truth. Some parts do though. It would be interesting to know his diagnosis at the time if the interview, if he had been diagnosed.
    Thanks for striving for the most excellent cut of your jib guys!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Linda - Cleveland Rocks - such a good time for all of the lifetime diehard Cleveland sports fans who have waited soooo long and remained passionate about their city and their times the entire time. Cleveland Rocks, Go Tribe!!! Cheers, Nic

    Linda - Cleveland Rocks - such a good time for all of the lifetime diehard Cleveland sports fans who have waited soooo long and remained passionate about their city and their times the entire time. Cleveland Rocks, Go Tribe!!!

    Cheers, Nic

  • Renee

    Renee Pittsburgh PA

    Omg... Thanks for contributing to my obsession with this case. I know you guys will do it justice.

    Omg... Thanks for contributing to my obsession with this case. I know you guys will do it justice.

  • Randy

    Randy Toronto canada

    Great episode! Looking forward to part 2. I was also excited to hear that we might be getting 2 episodes a week! I hope you weren't just teasing us? Keep up the great work! Loving listening to you guys.

    Great episode! Looking forward to part 2.
    I was also excited to hear that we might be getting 2 episodes a week! I hope you weren't just teasing us?
    Keep up the great work! Loving listening to you guys.

  • Bill Hilly

    Bill Hilly Ren Deck Woods, WI

    What ?!? Now why did you make me take off my beautiful jorts and throw them in the garbage can several months ago ?!? Only to announce to God and country that you wear socks with flip-flops yourself ??? Admiral, you owe me a pair of nice greasy stained home-made jorts !!! 😎

    What ?!? Now why did you make me take off my beautiful jorts and throw them in the garbage can several months ago ?!? Only to announce to God and country that you wear socks with flip-flops yourself ???
    Admiral, you owe me a pair of nice greasy stained home-made jorts !!! 😎

  • Erica

    Erica USA

    Seriously guys, where did you get your information? What in the world makes you believe that Lawrence King really was the leader of a devil-worshiping cult of cannibalistic pedophiles that including George Bush? Have you seriously never heard of Satanic Panic? It never once occurred to that maybe it's a little weird that Paul Bonacci's claims were suspiciously similar to the famously false claims in the McMartin preschool trial, Martensville satanic scandal, the book Michelle Remembers, etc etc etc? (Fun fact: the author of Michelle Remembers ALSO claimed to suffer from the fictitious multiple personality disorder!) I'm asking honest questions with no snark intended. I'm a huge fan of the show, but I gotta say: I'm floored by your lack of healthy skepticism here.

    Seriously guys, where did you get your information? What in the world makes you believe that Lawrence King really was the leader of a devil-worshiping cult of cannibalistic pedophiles that including George Bush? Have you seriously never heard of Satanic Panic? It never once occurred to that maybe it's a little weird that Paul Bonacci's claims were suspiciously similar to the famously false claims in the McMartin preschool trial, Martensville satanic scandal, the book Michelle Remembers, etc etc etc? (Fun fact: the author of Michelle Remembers ALSO claimed to suffer from the fictitious multiple personality disorder!) I'm asking honest questions with no snark intended.

    I'm a huge fan of the show, but I gotta say: I'm floored by your lack of healthy skepticism here.

  • Amanda

    Amanda Maryland

    I look forward to Part 2! I saw the Netflix documentary, and based on some stuff I'm sure you guys are going to cover later, I feel like the mother started to believe anything that would give her a sense of closure or having some kind of answer. I'm glad that police these days don't assume all missing children are runaways. It makes my blood boil when I hear about these old cases where the cops didn't take a missing child seriously. In the end, the family knows the child best and would know if something just isn't right.

    I look forward to Part 2! I saw the Netflix documentary, and based on some stuff I'm sure you guys are going to cover later, I feel like the mother started to believe anything that would give her a sense of closure or having some kind of answer. I'm glad that police these days don't assume all missing children are runaways. It makes my blood boil when I hear about these old cases where the cops didn't take a missing child seriously. In the end, the family knows the child best and would know if something just isn't right.

  • Beth

    Beth Munroeville, AL

    This story has always been disturbing to me. I remember when it happened because I was around the same age. It is heartbreaking to hear how the (lack of) investigation was (not) handled. Shocking. Johnny's mom is an incredibly strong woman who has done everything she can to find her son. I admire her tenacity greatly. And my heart breaks for her hearing you guys tell this story.

    This story has always been disturbing to me. I remember when it happened because I was around the same age. It is heartbreaking to hear how the (lack of) investigation was (not) handled. Shocking. Johnny's mom is an incredibly strong woman who has done everything she can to find her son. I admire her tenacity greatly. And my heart breaks for her hearing you guys tell this story.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Erica • USA Thanks for your thoughts. We didn't say George Bush was involved and yes I said Satanic actions, but didn't mean that Lawrence King was into Satanic worship. Just the act of abusing kids to me is pure evil. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Thanks for listening. Captain

    Erica • USA

    Thanks for your thoughts. We didn't say George Bush was involved and yes I said Satanic actions, but didn't mean that Lawrence King was into Satanic worship. Just the act of abusing kids to me is pure evil. Sorry I wasn't clear about that.
    Thanks for listening.

    Captain

  • Tim

    Tim Chino Hills, Ca

    Another intriguing episode guys. Doing some database searches in relation to Johnny’s abduction I came across a couple of interesting thing. One of them raise goosebumps on my arms. In 1986, a pedophile was apprehended in Pennsylvania by the name of Allen Ewing. Ewing was a crafty Pedophile who groomed kids and would take them to a cabin he had where he and his friends would molest them. Although he seemed quite good at getting away with enticing young boys into sex acts, he seemed to develop a compulsion for attacking boy in wooded areas. Police believed if he had not been caught he would have worked up to murder. One of the members of his child abuse ring was one of the individuals that help him along into the world of child abuse. His name was James Patterson. While Pennsylvania is a long way from West Des Moines, IA, I cannot help but believe that there is a striking resembles between Mr. Patterson and the sketch of the suspect in the Gosch abduction. I have to wonder if Ewing’s appetite for assault wasn’t developed from an experience a few years before. The story of Ewing and Patterson can be found here: Page 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvU3lieXpmczdvNW8/view?usp=sharing Continuation with image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBveURWek9vekVVNXc/view?usp=sharing A picture of James Patterson is included in the article. The sketches of the suspect can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBveEdCMVRnOVE5aVk/view?usp=sharing and here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvWUg2alhyZ2lzR1E/view?usp=sharing and here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvMmR6cU5TMlNTWEE/view?usp=sharing Here is where I put the images together: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvdmZSdUxaRFlnVkk/view?usp=sharing I additionally discovered that in 1986 there was an active pedophile ring arrested in Des Moines. The article I have found so far on it, can be found here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvdnlRSjBobjRQbDg/view?usp=sharing It is incredible to me the number of pedophile rings that seem to be out there. Obviously, there is only so much that can be investigated from internet databases, but I would be interested to hear/see anyone else’s opinions on this. Tim

    Another intriguing episode guys.

    Doing some database searches in relation to Johnny’s abduction I came across a couple of interesting thing. One of them raise goosebumps on my arms.

    In 1986, a pedophile was apprehended in Pennsylvania by the name of Allen Ewing. Ewing was a crafty Pedophile who groomed kids and would take them to a cabin he had where he and his friends would molest them. Although he seemed quite good at getting away with enticing young boys into sex acts, he seemed to develop a compulsion for attacking boy in wooded areas. Police believed if he had not been caught he would have worked up to murder.

    One of the members of his child abuse ring was one of the individuals that help him along into the world of child abuse. His name was James Patterson.

    While Pennsylvania is a long way from West Des Moines, IA, I cannot help but believe that there is a striking resembles between Mr. Patterson and the sketch of the suspect in the Gosch abduction. I have to wonder if Ewing’s appetite for assault wasn’t developed from an experience a few years before.

    The story of Ewing and Patterson can be found here:
    Page 1:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvU3lieXpmczdvNW8/view?usp=sharing

    Continuation with image:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBveURWek9vekVVNXc/view?usp=sharing

    A picture of James Patterson is included in the article.
    The sketches of the suspect can be found here:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBveEdCMVRnOVE5aVk/view?usp=sharing

    and here
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvWUg2alhyZ2lzR1E/view?usp=sharing

    and here
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvMmR6cU5TMlNTWEE/view?usp=sharing

    Here is where I put the images together:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvdmZSdUxaRFlnVkk/view?usp=sharing

    I additionally discovered that in 1986 there was an active pedophile ring arrested in Des Moines.
    The article I have found so far on it, can be found here.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvdnlRSjBobjRQbDg/view?usp=sharing

    It is incredible to me the number of pedophile rings that seem to be out there.

    Obviously, there is only so much that can be investigated from internet databases, but I would be interested to hear/see anyone else’s opinions on this.

    Tim

  • Nicholas Macarages

    Nicholas Macarages

    Mike Boudet of Sword and Scale recently interviewed Noreen Gosch. After the interview he said that Noreen is a strong-willed mother that seems believable, but some of her claims are so hard to believe. I agree with Boudet completely. My biggest problem with her story is this: Noreen claims Johnny came to visit her later, and have her specific details about the pedophile ring. He said he had to leave, and she let him. This part sounds absurd to me. I don't care how big a scandal or who is a threat to my family. If my relative returned many years later I would not let him/her disappear again. I would live on the run to be with that loved one if need be. I can't wait to hear part 2 to see how you address some of the claims in this story!!

    Mike Boudet of Sword and Scale recently interviewed Noreen Gosch. After the interview he said that Noreen is a strong-willed mother that seems believable, but some of her claims are so hard to believe. I agree with Boudet completely. My biggest problem with her story is this:

    Noreen claims Johnny came to visit her later, and have her specific details about the pedophile ring. He said he had to leave, and she let him. This part sounds absurd to me. I don't care how big a scandal or who is a threat to my family. If my relative returned many years later I would not let him/her disappear again. I would live on the run to be with that loved one if need be.

    I can't wait to hear part 2 to see how you address some of the claims in this story!!

  • Nicholas Macarages

    Nicholas Macarages

    *gave her

    *gave her

  • John Calley

    John Calley Lyons, mi

    Bonnacci was a bonified child rapist! He had multiple convictions for this! Don't beleive the captain telling you he only touched his cousin once and there weren't other victims with more serious crimes. Interesting that they excuse raping a child if the guy has a hard childhood but not for all the other pedophiles, many of which were also abused as kids. It should have been pointed out that multiple personality disorder isn't real. I will give you guys credit that you almost got there. He's a con man and this was his way out "I didn't rape the boy, it was my other personality! I'm innocent." When you say he had nothing to gain how bout the fact that he was facing serious prison time as a child molester and was trying to sell them any story he could so he didn't end up a victim in prison. But you seriously think he wouldn't have carved names in the wall of that house before hand? He has all the hall marks of a sociopathic conman. Why didn't you mention his other claims like how he said that GEORGE HW BUSH RAPED HIM IN THE WHITE HOUSE AS VICE PRESIDENT. That's not a joke, that was one of his claims. The captain can't tell you this though because it would damage the credibility of his saintly child rapist. His other claims are no less bizzare and obviously untrue. As for where he got details only the abductor would know? I don't doubt that norreen gave him that information, maybe accidentally. Asking did he have this scar? Did the boy you took have this birthmark? He was a con man after all and he became very close with norreen because she decided to beleive all of his claims. I probably won't listen to part 2 because I like TRUE crime, not whatever you would call this show now

    Bonnacci was a bonified child rapist! He had multiple convictions for this! Don't beleive the captain telling you he only touched his cousin once and there weren't other victims with more serious crimes. Interesting that they excuse raping a child if the guy has a hard childhood but not for all the other pedophiles, many of which were also abused as kids. It should have been pointed out that multiple personality disorder isn't real. I will give you guys credit that you almost got there. He's a con man and this was his way out "I didn't rape the boy, it was my other personality! I'm innocent." When you say he had nothing to gain how bout the fact that he was facing serious prison time as a child molester and was trying to sell them any story he could so he didn't end up a victim in prison. But you seriously think he wouldn't have carved names in the wall of that house before hand? He has all the hall marks of a sociopathic conman. Why didn't you mention his other claims like how he said that GEORGE HW BUSH RAPED HIM IN THE WHITE HOUSE AS VICE PRESIDENT. That's not a joke, that was one of his claims. The captain can't tell you this though because it would damage the credibility of his saintly child rapist. His other claims are no less bizzare and obviously untrue. As for where he got details only the abductor would know? I don't doubt that norreen gave him that information, maybe accidentally. Asking did he have this scar? Did the boy you took have this birthmark? He was a con man after all and he became very close with norreen because she decided to beleive all of his claims. I probably won't listen to part 2 because I like TRUE crime, not whatever you would call this show now

  • Matthew

    Matthew Aberdeen

    Screw You for spoiling The Walking Dead

    Screw You for spoiling The Walking Dead

  • Agent66

    Agent66

    i finally registered because how could I not? I had actually just watched the Netflix doc "Who Took Johnny" a few weeks ago and thought it was a very interesting and kinda heartbreaking watch. I grew up during this time, though I was only about 3 when Johnny disappeared, but I remember seeing missing kids on milk cartons and definitely after Adam Walsh, remember the stranger danger warnings (something I kinda still live by actually). like you guys, I'm absolutely baffled at police departments who can't see their asses for their faces. I've seen/listened to cases like the Keddie murders and Chris Jenkins (? the young man who disappeared from a Halloween party and was thought to be a victim of the smiley face killer) and I just can't understand how police are able to just not do their jobs. Granted, back in the 80s we didn't have Amber Alerts or even the kind of 24/48 hour alerts that we do now, but Nick hits it on the head - this is a 12 year old boy. Goes missing one morning on his paper route. If he's run away, why the hell would he go on his paper route the next day? Why not sneak out of the house at night? Or not come home for dinner? Also, from the doc and this episode, I haven't heard about any turmoil in Gosch household that would make johnny run away in the first place. And as you said, they didn't even bother to investigate. It was almost like, "ugh! we're trying to go through a box of donuts here!" I mean, when I think Chief Wiggums could do a better job, there is a PROBLEM. But even corrupt police chief aside, was the entire department corrupt or just incompetent? I think it disgusts me more if some of these officers have children themselves. If this was your son, would you want your department to handle things like this? I kinda have mix feelings on Norene, not bad per se, but she says at one point that Johnny came to see her once and then disappeared. Not sure how to take that or if it actually happened. i will say that, I honestly think this has weighed on her and, in some cases, she might be grasping at straws, no matter how far fetch because there could be a grain of truth to some of it. If Johnny is still alive, he would be 43 years old. Certainly, he would be old enough to see his mother or call and tell her that he's fine and safe. Sadly, I don't think he's 43 and living happily in California or something. On one hand, that's sad and disappointing and if not for an idiot police force, maybe they could have found him sooner and alive. On the other hand, it took, 17, 18 years before the Walshes had closure on their case, but it meant that they knew the truth and there was a measure of closure there. Hopefully, that will come to the Goschs. On another topic, would you guys do one of Etan Patz? You mentioned it in the episode and I just discovered that they are doing a new trial for one of the suspects in the case as of last week. I remember hearing about him as a kid (again, the whole milk carton/stranger danger), but only knew him as a missing kid.

    i finally registered because how could I not?

    I had actually just watched the Netflix doc "Who Took Johnny" a few weeks ago and thought it was a very interesting and kinda heartbreaking watch. I grew up during this time, though I was only about 3 when Johnny disappeared, but I remember seeing missing kids on milk cartons and definitely after Adam Walsh, remember the stranger danger warnings (something I kinda still live by actually).

    like you guys, I'm absolutely baffled at police departments who can't see their asses for their faces. I've seen/listened to cases like the Keddie murders and Chris Jenkins (? the young man who disappeared from a Halloween party and was thought to be a victim of the smiley face killer) and I just can't understand how police are able to just not do their jobs. Granted, back in the 80s we didn't have Amber Alerts or even the kind of 24/48 hour alerts that we do now, but Nick hits it on the head - this is a 12 year old boy. Goes missing one morning on his paper route.

    If he's run away, why the hell would he go on his paper route the next day? Why not sneak out of the house at night? Or not come home for dinner? Also, from the doc and this episode, I haven't heard about any turmoil in Gosch household that would make johnny run away in the first place. And as you said, they didn't even bother to investigate. It was almost like, "ugh! we're trying to go through a box of donuts here!" I mean, when I think Chief Wiggums could do a better job, there is a PROBLEM. But even corrupt police chief aside, was the entire department corrupt or just incompetent?

    I think it disgusts me more if some of these officers have children themselves. If this was your son, would you want your department to handle things like this?

    I kinda have mix feelings on Norene, not bad per se, but she says at one point that Johnny came to see her once and then disappeared. Not sure how to take that or if it actually happened. i will say that, I honestly think this has weighed on her and, in some cases, she might be grasping at straws, no matter how far fetch because there could be a grain of truth to some of it. If Johnny is still alive, he would be 43 years old. Certainly, he would be old enough to see his mother or call and tell her that he's fine and safe.

    Sadly, I don't think he's 43 and living happily in California or something. On one hand, that's sad and disappointing and if not for an idiot police force, maybe they could have found him sooner and alive. On the other hand, it took, 17, 18 years before the Walshes had closure on their case, but it meant that they knew the truth and there was a measure of closure there. Hopefully, that will come to the Goschs.

    On another topic, would you guys do one of Etan Patz? You mentioned it in the episode and I just discovered that they are doing a new trial for one of the suspects in the case as of last week. I remember hearing about him as a kid (again, the whole milk carton/stranger danger), but only knew him as a missing kid.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Wow John! Calm down my friend. It should have come through clear that I'm not convinced by Bonacci's claims and we did not mention some of the claims because there was so much to cover and some of his story is so far out there we didn't want to waste your time. We did not give Paul a pass for "raping a kid" we simply pointed out that when Paul did that he was a child himself that is different from the legal term of pedophilia. As far as multiple personalities goes I'm not schooled enough on the subject to put my stamp on if that is a real disorder or not. You are free to give your opinion on such right here on this forum but please refrain from stating what my opinion should be. Cheers to everyone and a safe and happy Halloween! Nic

    Wow John! Calm down my friend. It should have come through clear that I'm not convinced by Bonacci's claims and we did not mention some of the claims because there was so much to cover and some of his story is so far out there we didn't want to waste your time. We did not give Paul a pass for "raping a kid" we simply pointed out that when Paul did that he was a child himself that is different from the legal term of pedophilia. As far as multiple personalities goes I'm not schooled enough on the subject to put my stamp on if that is a real disorder or not. You are free to give your opinion on such right here on this forum but please refrain from stating what my opinion should be.
    Cheers to everyone and a safe and happy Halloween!
    Nic

  • Sakura

    Sakura New Zealand

    Hi guys, great episode! On Noreen's ever evolving stories, I would like to make a prediction based on what I call the Stigmata Effect...that's where the placement of the "wounds" exhibited by alleged stigmatics have changed based on where theologians and historians believe the wounds of Christ were located, e.g. from the palms to the wrists and back to the palms again. So Noreen's most recent version of the story contains a taser because the "trope" of abduction victims being tased has been in popular culture for a while now. I predict she's going to drop the taser like a hot rock in future though and here's why. In the recent Jonbenet Ramsey reinvestigation they demonstrated that tasers don't knock people out, quite the opposite actually. That idea of tasing a victim into unconsciousness has been debunked and that will filter through and affect narratives like the Johnny Gosch story. Now it's not that Noreen's doing this on purpose by the way, she's not. This effect is subconscious. So there's my prediction.

    Hi guys, great episode! On Noreen's ever evolving stories, I would like to make a prediction based on what I call the Stigmata Effect...that's where the placement of the "wounds" exhibited by alleged stigmatics have changed based on where theologians and historians believe the wounds of Christ were located, e.g. from the palms to the wrists and back to the palms again. So Noreen's most recent version of the story contains a taser because the "trope" of abduction victims being tased has been in popular culture for a while now. I predict she's going to drop the taser like a hot rock in future though and here's why. In the recent Jonbenet Ramsey reinvestigation they demonstrated that tasers don't knock people out, quite the opposite actually. That idea of tasing a victim into unconsciousness has been debunked and that will filter through and affect narratives like the Johnny Gosch story. Now it's not that Noreen's doing this on purpose by the way, she's not. This effect is subconscious. So there's my prediction.

  • Shan

    Shan Minneapolis, MN

    A big thank you to the Captain for recommending "Who Took Johnny". I truly enjoyed watching the documentary. Cheers boys!

    A big thank you to the Captain for recommending "Who Took Johnny". I truly enjoyed watching the documentary.
    Cheers boys!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Sakura, I think someone put a gun on Johnny and he got in the car and the asshole drove off with him. I think Johnny could have got away unless he was compromised. Cheers, Nic

    Sakura,
    I think someone put a gun on Johnny and he got in the car and the asshole drove off with him. I think Johnny could have got away unless he was compromised.
    Cheers, Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Shan, The Captain is a damn good dude! Thanks for tuning in, cheers, Nic

    Shan,
    The Captain is a damn good dude!
    Thanks for tuning in, cheers, Nic

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous USA

    I had to register simply to ask you where the hell did you get that pronunciation for dachshund???? In my entire life, which is a bit longer than you guys, I have never heard it pronounced - what was it? Doo-Shawn?????? Dah-Shawn??? Really? It's DOX-un, if anything, or if you want to put a German spin on it - Dox-UND. You made it all this way in life without knowing how to at least get it near the correct pronunciation? Doo-Shawn is now my new rap name.

    I had to register simply to ask you where the hell did you get that pronunciation for dachshund???? In my entire life, which is a bit longer than you guys, I have never heard it pronounced - what was it? Doo-Shawn?????? Dah-Shawn??? Really? It's DOX-un, if anything, or if you want to put a German spin on it - Dox-UND. You made it all this way in life without knowing how to at least get it near the correct pronunciation? Doo-Shawn is now my new rap name.

  • Sakura

    Sakura New Zealand

    Totally agree with you Nic. I didn't go into this further cos I was using my phone to comment and I hate that tiny keyboard, but I wanted to say that I feel awful for Noreen, because of how much flack she gets from people who don't understand two things.... 1. That human memory is infinitably fallible, and 2. That losing a child is the worst thing that can possibly happen to a person, ever in the history of ever!!

    Totally agree with you Nic. I didn't go into this further cos I was using my phone to comment and I hate that tiny keyboard, but I wanted to say that I feel awful for Noreen, because of how much flack she gets from people who don't understand two things.... 1. That human memory is infinitably fallible, and 2. That losing a child is the worst thing that can possibly happen to a person, ever in the history of ever!!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Shea, I got the pronunciation from my tiny brain. Thanks for pointing it out much to my dismay. Nic

    Shea, I got the pronunciation from my tiny brain. Thanks for pointing it out much to my dismay. Nic

  • HoboJoe

    HoboJoe Saint Louis, MO

    Just wanted to mention that whole Franklin County scandal and how there is legitimate evidence of a pedophile ring. There doesn't necessarily have to be satanism involved, though that is believed to be the case. As someone said in this comments section already though, that is mostly due to all the satanic panic. Regardless, there was in all likelihood a very sinister pedophile ring. I'm not sure how much competition you guys are in with The Last Podcast on the Left, but they have an awesome couple episodes about the whole thing. Pretty well-researched. https://soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode119-the-satanic-government-part-ii-the-franklin-cover-up-part-i-1 https://soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode120-the-satanic-government-part-iii-the-franklin-cover-up-part-ii-1

    Just wanted to mention that whole Franklin County scandal and how there is legitimate evidence of a pedophile ring. There doesn't necessarily have to be satanism involved, though that is believed to be the case. As someone said in this comments section already though, that is mostly due to all the satanic panic. Regardless, there was in all likelihood a very sinister pedophile ring.

    I'm not sure how much competition you guys are in with The Last Podcast on the Left, but they have an awesome couple episodes about the whole thing. Pretty well-researched.

    https://soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode119-the-satanic-government-part-ii-the-franklin-cover-up-part-i-1
    https://soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode120-the-satanic-government-part-iii-the-franklin-cover-up-part-ii-1

  • Veselin

    Veselin Bulgarria

    It is all a conspiracy theory of course... I really did not think you would go down that hole... all these topics are like conspiracy theory 101 - bohemian grove, the nebraska stuff... and especially the owl - just open a book - the owl is an anciant greek symbol of wisdom and that's it about it - no 'groves', or pedophiles in droves, or buddies of Karl Roves' :)))

    It is all a conspiracy theory of course... I really did not think you would go down that hole... all these topics are like conspiracy theory 101 - bohemian grove, the nebraska stuff... and especially the owl - just open a book - the owl is an anciant greek symbol of wisdom and that's it about it - no 'groves', or pedophiles in droves, or buddies of Karl Roves' smile))

  • MysteryIslandGirl

    MysteryIslandGirl Somewhere in the San Juan Archipelago, WA.

    Firstly - you guys are the best. I regularly find myself asking - is it Tuesday yet ? I give you **5**, for sure! (At least most of the time). I'm so glad to have recently discovered I can support the show by buying Special & Old episodes through iTunes! Secondly - I see I'm in the minority here, But the idea that such pedophile rings exist isn't really disputed (at ALL) and in this case I must side with The Captain. Paul Bonacci's story (to me) has that ring of truth; people just don't want to believe such disgusting stuff. If you go to the website for the Center for Missing & Exploited Children, it estimates 1 in 5 missing kids is a victim of human trafficking. And unfortunately, that's what human trafficking is (generally speaking). It's sex-slavery. (Sometimes it's slavery-slavery, but typically its the pervs that drive the industry). Why oh why can't you believe in this Nic? 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted in the USA & 1 in 5 men. There are perverts a-plenty out there, and the evidence that these sickos can organize is not only available - there's plenty of it. People didn't used to believe in the Organized Mafia either. Thirdly - oh Captain, my Captain, RE, the Tony Muncy show, YES the old Mary-Jane typically stays in your system for up to about 3-4 weeks depending on how much fat is on your bod.. (As THC is fat soluble). I speak from experience :) I think it's cute that you don't. Thanks for the show guys !

    Firstly - you guys are the best. I regularly find myself asking - is it Tuesday yet ? I give you **5**, for sure! (At least most of the time). I'm so glad to have recently discovered I can support the show by buying Special & Old episodes through iTunes!
    Secondly - I see I'm in the minority here, But the idea that such pedophile rings exist isn't really disputed (at ALL) and in this case I must side with The Captain. Paul Bonacci's story (to me) has that ring of truth; people just don't want to believe such disgusting stuff.
    If you go to the website for the Center for Missing & Exploited Children, it estimates 1 in 5 missing kids is a victim of human trafficking. And unfortunately, that's what human trafficking is (generally speaking). It's sex-slavery. (Sometimes it's slavery-slavery, but typically its the pervs that drive the industry). Why oh why can't you believe in this Nic? 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted in the USA & 1 in 5 men. There are perverts a-plenty out there, and the evidence that these sickos can organize is not only available - there's plenty of it. People didn't used to believe in the Organized Mafia either.

    Thirdly - oh Captain, my Captain, RE, the Tony Muncy show, YES the old Mary-Jane typically stays in your system for up to about 3-4 weeks depending on how much fat is on your bod.. (As THC is fat soluble). I speak from experience smile I think it's cute that you don't.

    Thanks for the show guys !

  • Monica

    Monica USA

    Love you guys, I'm a big fan Just like to point out in part two you mention handwriting analysis. While the accuracy of handwriting analysis has been challenged, it is admissible as evidence in court. While you're right to say that there are accreditation organizations where one can simply buy mail order certifications in handwriting analysis, the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners is recognized as an accreditation organization for experts.

    Love you guys, I'm a big fan

    Just like to point out in part two you mention handwriting analysis. While the accuracy of handwriting analysis has been challenged, it is admissible as evidence in court. While you're right to say that there are accreditation organizations where one can simply buy mail order certifications in handwriting analysis, the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners is recognized as an accreditation organization for experts.

  • Emily

    Emily Dallas,TX

    Hey guys!have the documents from the Franklin credit union civil suit been unsealed to do some bigger investigating on other individuals involved that could cooberate Paul's story about Johnny Gosch involvement? Thanks. Ps- Love the podcast. I lived in Canton,OH & Cincinnati/nky suburb for 9years so great to hear you mention big boy and Columbus. And nic, your accent is very distinct, you pronounce "torlet" instead of "toilet"- very unique to Ohioans 😊

    Hey guys!have the documents from the Franklin credit union civil suit been unsealed to do some bigger investigating on other individuals involved that could cooberate Paul's story about Johnny Gosch involvement? Thanks.

    Ps- Love the podcast. I lived in Canton,OH & Cincinnati/nky suburb for 9years so great to hear you mention big boy and Columbus. And nic, your accent is very distinct, you pronounce "torlet" instead of "toilet"- very unique to Ohioans 😊

  • Timesha

    Timesha Nebraska

    I live in Omaha and when I heard this podcast, I asked my mom about the Franklin Credit Union thing. She says she remembers the child sex ring story. She believes it happened, as do I. You guys mentioned Boys Town in connection with the ring. My mom says the now closed Omaha School for the Deaf was also involved in some way. I don't know if I really think Johnny was abducted by these people but I do think the sex ring existed at some point. Great show! Keep up the good work!

    I live in Omaha and when I heard this podcast, I asked my mom about the Franklin Credit Union thing. She says she remembers the child sex ring story. She believes it happened, as do I. You guys mentioned Boys Town in connection with the ring. My mom says the now closed Omaha School for the Deaf was also involved in some way. I don't know if I really think Johnny was abducted by these people but I do think the sex ring existed at some point. Great show! Keep up the good work!

  • Jessica

    Jessica Houston

    Listening to these 2 episodes, I really wanted to side with Captain and say that Bonacci should be given more credit re: Johnny's abduction, but in the end I just couldn't do it. I DO think there is an actual pedophile ring out there that Bonacci was involved with for whatever reason, and I also think it's possible that Johnny's captors were involved in such a ring. I just can't make the leap that puts Bonacci at Johnny's abduction. I don't believe that there is any one region of the brain or any one psychiatric disorder that would make someone unable to lie; I think it's odd Bonacci's psychiatrist said that. Perhaps he was involved with so many kidnappings he genuinely thought he was there for Johnny's. Or maybe he wanted attention by inserting himself in the case, knowing it would lead investigators to an actual pedophile ring...who knows.

    Listening to these 2 episodes, I really wanted to side with Captain and say that Bonacci should be given more credit re: Johnny's abduction, but in the end I just couldn't do it. I DO think there is an actual pedophile ring out there that Bonacci was involved with for whatever reason, and I also think it's possible that Johnny's captors were involved in such a ring. I just can't make the leap that puts Bonacci at Johnny's abduction.

    I don't believe that there is any one region of the brain or any one psychiatric disorder that would make someone unable to lie; I think it's odd Bonacci's psychiatrist said that. Perhaps he was involved with so many kidnappings he genuinely thought he was there for Johnny's. Or maybe he wanted attention by inserting himself in the case, knowing it would lead investigators to an actual pedophile ring...who knows.

  • Jessica

    Jessica Houston

    [quote=Shea] I had to register simply to ask you where the hell did you get that pronunciation for dachshund???? In my entire life, which is a bit longer than you guys, I have never heard it pronounced - what was it? Doo-Shawn?????? Dah-Shawn??? Really? It's DOX-un, if anything, or if you want to put a German spin on it - Dox-UND. You made it all this way in life without knowing how to at least get it near the correct pronunciation? Doo-Shawn is now my new rap name. [/quote] Damn girl, calm down! They do a lot of work for us, let's not skewer them over a mispronounced word here and there.

    Shea wrote:

    I had to register simply to ask you where the hell did you get that pronunciation for dachshund???? In my entire life, which is a bit longer than you guys, I have never heard it pronounced - what was it? Doo-Shawn?????? Dah-Shawn??? Really? It's DOX-un, if anything, or if you want to put a German spin on it - Dox-UND. You made it all this way in life without knowing how to at least get it near the correct pronunciation? Doo-Shawn is now my new rap name.

    Damn girl, calm down! They do a lot of work for us, let's not skewer them over a mispronounced word here and there.

  • Jessica

    Jessica Houston

    [quote=John Calley] The captain can't tell you this though because it would damage the credibility of his saintly child rapist. [/quote] Okay, that was pretty funny. Who's calling him a saint? The question here is whether or not he was involved with Johnny's abduction, NOT whether or not he was a good guy.

    John Calley wrote:

    The captain can't tell you this though because it would damage the credibility of his saintly child rapist.

    Okay, that was pretty funny. Who's calling him a saint? The question here is whether or not he was involved with Johnny's abduction, NOT whether or not he was a good guy.

  • Sharon

    Sharon South Dakota

    Happy Samhain! I first heard this story on another podcast, and so when I found the documentary on Amazon Prime, I had to have it. Actually being able to see Noreen Gosch, and the different clues, leads, or blockades, helped me put this into, well, order. Something not mentioned, and I admit, it's possible it was mentioned because I listen at work, and I get interrupted to help someone all of the time. But, was it mentioned that Big John and woman went to, gosh it was either FBI or an attorney, and the lady claimed she was Noreen, but she wasn't? I thought that was extremely weird. So much of this case is beyond odd. Also, I know that it keeps being mentioned that Noreen sees Johnny in everything that comes forward. So a lot of people choose to disbelieve her, because, really, it couldn't be all of it, could it? But why not? Why couldn't the dollar bill signature be Johnny's? Why couldn't the boy in the photo/s be Johnny? I don't know if any of it is true, besides the fact that a young boy was taken off the streets leaving nothing behind but a wagon, a dog, and undelivered newspapers. Chances are likely that Johnny Gosch is no longer in this world as a living, breathing man, but if his mama wants to believe he's alive and out there. And that one day he might come back to her. Then I'm going to pray that she's right.

    Happy Samhain!

    I first heard this story on another podcast, and so when I found the documentary on Amazon Prime, I had to have it. Actually being able to see Noreen Gosch, and the different clues, leads, or blockades, helped me put this into, well, order. Something not mentioned, and I admit, it's possible it was mentioned because I listen at work, and I get interrupted to help someone all of the time. But, was it mentioned that Big John and woman went to, gosh it was either FBI or an attorney, and the lady claimed she was Noreen, but she wasn't? I thought that was extremely weird. So much of this case is beyond odd.

    Also, I know that it keeps being mentioned that Noreen sees Johnny in everything that comes forward. So a lot of people choose to disbelieve her, because, really, it couldn't be all of it, could it? But why not? Why couldn't the dollar bill signature be Johnny's? Why couldn't the boy in the photo/s be Johnny?

    I don't know if any of it is true, besides the fact that a young boy was taken off the streets leaving nothing behind but a wagon, a dog, and undelivered newspapers.

    Chances are likely that Johnny Gosch is no longer in this world as a living, breathing man, but if his mama wants to believe he's alive and out there. And that one day he might come back to her. Then I'm going to pray that she's right.

  • Marta

    Marta Sebring, FL

    I believe that Johnny fell victim of the "child sex ring". Definitely do not believe he came to visit his mom as an adult. If he did, why wouldn't she convinced him to go to the police , to stay, take a picture or any type of recording. I mean what type of son would let his mom keep suffering, the way this lady obviously has been?

    I believe that Johnny fell victim of the "child sex ring". Definitely do not believe he came to visit his mom as an adult. If he did, why wouldn't she convinced him to go to the police , to stay, take a picture or any type of recording. I mean what type of son would let his mom keep suffering, the way this lady obviously has been?

  • Erica

    Erica USA

    Captain, I didn't write that you said George Bush was involved. But Paul Bonacci and his accomplice Alicia Owens absolutely did. They claimed that they were victims of a pedophile ring that was run by powerful government officials which included George Bush, who was Vice President at the time. Every single claim by Paul Bonacci carries the hallmark of the satanic ritual abuse hysteria. Branding, cannibalism, pedophilia, underground tunnels, sexual slavery, elite parties, flying children in a plane to be sold as goods... Every single thing Paul Bonacci claimed happened to him had been claimed by others during the satanic panic hysteria of the 1980's. The only difference between Bonacci (and Owens) and the small children who were convinced of being satanic sex ring victims is that Paul Bonacci doesn't actually believe he was a victim. And unlike Michelle Smith and Shirley Ardell Mason, Bonacci probably wasn't put under hypnosis and shot up with sodium pentothol to "recover" lost memories that were being blocked by those pesky multiple personalities. He's just a con man who was using a contemporary hysteria for his own gains. If you and Nic want to learn more about multiple personality disorder, the history of the diagnosis, and how it lead to false accusations including satanic ritual abuse, I reccomend watching this lecture from Debbie Nathan: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vLKAIObPWJE Her focus in that lecture is on Shirley Ardell Mason (the woman who was Sybil and patient 0 of child abuse hysteria) and how the popularity of the book and movie Sybil lead to a culture of false accusations and eventually satanic panic.

    Captain, I didn't write that you said George Bush was involved. But Paul Bonacci and his accomplice Alicia Owens absolutely did. They claimed that they were victims of a pedophile ring that was run by powerful government officials which included George Bush, who was Vice President at the time. Every single claim by Paul Bonacci carries the hallmark of the satanic ritual abuse hysteria. Branding, cannibalism, pedophilia, underground tunnels, sexual slavery, elite parties, flying children in a plane to be sold as goods... Every single thing Paul Bonacci claimed happened to him had been claimed by others during the satanic panic hysteria of the 1980's. The only difference between Bonacci (and Owens) and the small children who were convinced of being satanic sex ring victims is that Paul Bonacci doesn't actually believe he was a victim. And unlike Michelle Smith and Shirley Ardell Mason, Bonacci probably wasn't put under hypnosis and shot up with sodium pentothol to "recover" lost memories that were being blocked by those pesky multiple personalities. He's just a con man who was using a contemporary hysteria for his own gains.

    If you and Nic want to learn more about multiple personality disorder, the history of the diagnosis, and how it lead to false accusations including satanic ritual abuse, I reccomend watching this lecture from Debbie Nathan:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vLKAIObPWJE

    Her focus in that lecture is on Shirley Ardell Mason (the woman who was Sybil and patient 0 of child abuse hysteria) and how the popularity of the book and movie Sybil lead to a culture of false accusations and eventually satanic panic.

  • Jenni

    Jenni Indianapolis

    Tim Dillion is going to hell interviewed the director of where is Johnny and spoke to Noreen this year. She repeats the story about Johnny coming to her as an adult with another adult-https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/tim-dillon-is-going-to-hell/id1135137367?mt=2&i=375425848 She said that the reason he is hiding is because he is afraid of being killed.

    Tim Dillion is going to hell interviewed the director of where is Johnny and spoke to Noreen this year. She repeats the story about Johnny coming to her as an adult with another adult-https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/tim-dillon-is-going-to-hell/id1135137367?mt=2&i=375425848

    She said that the reason he is hiding is because he is afraid of being killed.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Erica • USA Thank you! I will check out that link

    Erica • USA

    Thank you! I will check out that link

  • Tim

    Tim Chino Hills, Ca

    Although I tend to lean toward the sex ring theory, here is an example of a case from a decade before that tends towards Nic’s belief. I found a series of newspaper abductions that occurred in the early 70’s, which culminated in the abduction and murder of Joey Didier. The police in this case demonstrated true police work and were able to apprehend and convict the suspect. Here is the newspaper article that put me onto it. Note that because of the strange nature of the first two attacks, the police were considering a group involved in witch craft was behind the abductions. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvc0dXZjZhMDVIcVU/view?usp=sharing Here is a description of the events taken from the families’ scrap book. http://www.comportone.com/cpo/crime/articles/didier.htm Clearly, the police did a great job of reacting and investigating this incident. One has to wonder what may have happened if Orval Clooney had have reacted differently. Regarding Paul Bonacci, I wanted to provide a perspective as to why he may have made the claims that he made. If you watch the Discovery Channel Documentary “Conspiracy of Silence”, which is said to have been pulled from airing for whatever ominous reasons. Basically, three individuals make claims that powerful people are engaging in child abuse in the form of sex parties. The three individuals were Alisha Owens, Troy Boner, and Paul Bonacci. Owens, gets convicted of perjury and is given an unusually long sentence. Boner, makes the claim, recants, then claims he recanted under pressure from the FBI. Only to decline to make the claim again under oath. Bonacci appears in this documentary as fairly creditable as does Boner. But neither is making outlandish claims, they are basically saying we were abused, we saw others abused, and we participated in abusing others. I think that Bonacci seeing the position he was in and how things were working out for the others, either decided or it was suggested to him that the insanity plea was the best way to weasel out of the position he found himself in. When I say suggested to him, I mean by those he was accusing, because they benefited most by his ever expanding claims. While convicting someone of perjury would convince some, the claim could always be made that it was a frame up or rigged by the powerful. The same is true with Boner recanting. But with one convicted, one recanting, and one making ever expanding claims, it’s difficult to say the claims should be taken seriously. Whether any of the Franklin sex stuff is real or not, I don’t know, but as I stated I did find their statements in that documentary to be believable. Selective editing, maybe, I don’t know. Clearly, child sex abuse rings existed then and now, so I believe it is possible. However, I think people hear the word ring and think that it is something organized like a Rotary Club, with bi-laws and a command structure when they should be thinking of a toilet. I look at that it more like a bunch of turds floating around in a bowl of similar interests. While some of those bump into each other at times, they are all independent of each other. Tim

    Although I tend to lean toward the sex ring theory, here is an example of a case from a decade before that tends towards Nic’s belief.

    I found a series of newspaper abductions that occurred in the early 70’s, which culminated in the abduction and murder of Joey Didier.

    The police in this case demonstrated true police work and were able to apprehend and convict the suspect.
    Here is the newspaper article that put me onto it. Note that because of the strange nature of the first two attacks, the police were considering a group involved in witch craft was behind the abductions.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Ekt1xrnIBvc0dXZjZhMDVIcVU/view?usp=sharing

    Here is a description of the events taken from the families’ scrap book.

    http://www.comportone.com/cpo/crime/articles/didier.htm

    Clearly, the police did a great job of reacting and investigating this incident.
    One has to wonder what may have happened if Orval Clooney had have reacted differently.

    Regarding Paul Bonacci, I wanted to provide a perspective as to why he may have made the claims that he made. If you watch the Discovery Channel Documentary “Conspiracy of Silence”, which is said to have been pulled from airing for whatever ominous reasons. Basically, three individuals make claims that powerful people are engaging in child abuse in the form of sex parties. The three individuals were Alisha Owens, Troy Boner, and Paul Bonacci. Owens, gets convicted of perjury and is given an unusually long sentence. Boner, makes the claim, recants, then claims he recanted under pressure from the FBI. Only to decline to make the claim again under oath. Bonacci appears in this documentary as fairly creditable as does Boner. But neither is making outlandish claims, they are basically saying we were abused, we saw others abused, and we participated in abusing others.

    I think that Bonacci seeing the position he was in and how things were working out for the others, either decided or it was suggested to him that the insanity plea was the best way to weasel out of the position he found himself in. When I say suggested to him, I mean by those he was accusing, because they benefited most by his ever expanding claims. While convicting someone of perjury would convince some, the claim could always be made that it was a frame up or rigged by the powerful. The same is true with Boner recanting. But with one convicted, one recanting, and one making ever expanding claims, it’s difficult to say the claims should be taken seriously.

    Whether any of the Franklin sex stuff is real or not, I don’t know, but as I stated I did find their statements in that documentary to be believable. Selective editing, maybe, I don’t know. Clearly, child sex abuse rings existed then and now, so I believe it is possible.

    However, I think people hear the word ring and think that it is something organized like a Rotary Club, with bi-laws and a command structure when they should be thinking of a toilet. I look at that it more like a bunch of turds floating around in a bowl of similar interests. While some of those bump into each other at times, they are all independent of each other.

    Tim

  • Sarah

    Sarah NC

    Well, I came with praise and a beer referral and just couldn't stop myself from reading the comments. It's unbelievable that people of seemingly confrontational and abrasive to you guys on your own comments board and hats off to you for responding. You're both AWESOME podcasters. Love your dynamic and enjoy listening to your takes on cases. Your styles soften the blow on some gruesome shit. So on I believe the second Gosch ep you had Jade from Foothills and rightly rated it a 4.5. I work a few minutes from there and their Seeing Double IPA is even better, if you can believe it, and is not available in stores unless you find it on tap. Look for it or take a trip South! We have lots of breweries around (Haw River Farmhouse Ales is my fave, but Wicked Weed, Four Saints, NoDa, and many others in NC are pumping out the good stuff) and plenty of crime history, too! Thanks again!

    Well, I came with praise and a beer referral and just couldn't stop myself from reading the comments. It's unbelievable that people of seemingly confrontational and abrasive to you guys on your own comments board and hats off to you for responding.
    You're both AWESOME podcasters. Love your dynamic and enjoy listening to your takes on cases. Your styles soften the blow on some gruesome shit.
    So on I believe the second Gosch ep you had Jade from Foothills and rightly rated it a 4.5. I work a few minutes from there and their Seeing Double IPA is even better, if you can believe it, and is not available in stores unless you find it on tap. Look for it or take a trip South! We have lots of breweries around (Haw River Farmhouse Ales is my fave, but Wicked Weed, Four Saints, NoDa, and many
    others in NC are pumping out the good stuff)
    and plenty of crime history, too!
    Thanks again!

  • Vicki

    Vicki Tn

    I would recommend people watch on youtube the documentary "Conspiracy of Silence" and read John DeCamp's book on the Franklin cover up. Some people have suggested that the whole satanic panic thing was sort of created by these pedophile rings to make the victims who claim to have been violated by these pedo rings sound crazy, to discredit them. That they may dress like this (the robes and such) and talk about things satanic related to their victims so that if they tell it, they get lumped in now with satanic panic. I don't know (thank God I don't know). And as far as the White House and Bush, there was a huge Washington Post article that came out about the 'call boys' visiting the White House. Anyone can find it. We are never going to know what all was going on with that because they quickly covered it up. (The old "national security" excuse for anything that may tell the public that government folks are not all nice guys doing their heroic and unselfish best for it's citizens). If it is going on with high level politicians like that, and we know pedos and sexual deviants organize and communicate, how else did child porn ever get traded long before the internet, then a lot of it is done to compromise politicians so that they will basically be 'owned' so to speak. They will use whatever the person likes, prostitutes, boys, girls, whatever is necessary. That person is officially black mail-able. I have a theory that the movie "The Firm" is not really about a law firm associated with the mafia. I think it's sort of an allegory about high politics and even to some degree Congress. Maybe governments in general around the world. I also think Last Podcast on the Left's story on the Franklin Scandal is good. But be warned--they are raunchy, absolutely disgustingly tasteless and use vile, repulsive humor. You have to try and digest that for the value of the story itself, because their research is good. I don't know how much of Bonacci's story is real, but I think pedo rings and trafficking are real. Whether this is what happened to Johnny and the other paperboys will likely never be known for certain. It is notable that Bonacci described that house and when they check it out everything he said was there actually existed. Another thing about George Bush. Anyone ever seen the movie "Wag the Dog" or read the book that it's based on? It's written and shown in the movie in satire form (for the protection of the person who wrote it). He worked in the White House under Bush. This shows more than you know about how it really works. In the movie, there is a big scandal about to come out about George Bush (not identified as Bush in the film, just a fictional president) being accused of molesting a 'Fire Fly Girl' (girl scout, brownie, boy scout?). They actually create a phony 'war' to distract and also to help him get re-elected. They manipulate the news. It sounds like it's impossible especially since the tone of the movie is satire. But sometimes satire is a whistle blower's best friend. The events in the movie trace back to certain things that you have to read between the lines to match them to.

    I would recommend people watch on youtube the documentary "Conspiracy of Silence" and read John DeCamp's book on the Franklin cover up. Some people have suggested that the whole satanic panic thing was sort of created by these pedophile rings to make the victims who claim to have been violated by these pedo rings sound crazy, to discredit them. That they may dress like this (the robes and such) and talk about things satanic related to their victims so that if they tell it, they get lumped in now with satanic panic. I don't know (thank God I don't know). And as far as the White House and Bush, there was a huge Washington Post article that came out about the 'call boys' visiting the White House. Anyone can find it. We are never going to know what all was going on with that because they quickly covered it up. (The old "national security" excuse for anything that may tell the public that government folks are not all nice guys doing their heroic and unselfish best for it's citizens). If it is going on with high level politicians like that, and we know pedos and sexual deviants organize and communicate, how else did child porn ever get traded long before the internet, then a lot of it is done to compromise politicians so that they will basically be 'owned' so to speak. They will use whatever the person likes, prostitutes, boys, girls, whatever is necessary. That person is officially black mail-able.

    I have a theory that the movie "The Firm" is not really about a law firm associated with the mafia. I think it's sort of an allegory about high politics and even to some degree Congress. Maybe governments in general around the world. I also think Last Podcast on the Left's story on the Franklin Scandal is good. But be warned--they are raunchy, absolutely disgustingly tasteless and use vile, repulsive humor. You have to try and digest that for the value of the story itself, because their research is good.

    I don't know how much of Bonacci's story is real, but I think pedo rings and trafficking are real. Whether this is what happened to Johnny and the other paperboys will likely never be known for certain. It is notable that Bonacci described that house and when they check it out everything he said was there actually existed. Another thing about George Bush. Anyone ever seen the movie "Wag the Dog" or read the book that it's based on? It's written and shown in the movie in satire form (for the protection of the person who wrote it). He worked in the White House under Bush. This shows more than you know about how it really works. In the movie, there is a big scandal about to come out about George Bush (not identified as Bush in the film, just a fictional president) being accused of molesting a 'Fire Fly Girl' (girl scout, brownie, boy scout?). They actually create a phony 'war' to distract and also to help him get re-elected. They manipulate the news. It sounds like it's impossible especially since the tone of the movie is satire. But sometimes satire is a whistle blower's best friend. The events in the movie trace back to certain things that you have to read between the lines to match them to.

  • Brandi

    Brandi Portland

    Hey, just wanted to leave a note because you guys asked us to day what side we are on. I'm with the captain. I believe that guy at least saw Johnny. I believe he went into a crime ring.

    Hey, just wanted to leave a note because you guys asked us to day what side we are on.
    I'm with the captain. I believe that guy at least saw Johnny. I believe he went into a crime ring.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Brandi • Portland Thank You Captain

    Brandi • Portland

    Thank You

    Captain

  • Chelsea

    Chelsea OKC

    Sorry if someone pointed this out already (I'm a little late in the game). So the George Bush pic is super interesting and honestly pretty convincing... Except the part in his hair is on the wrong side. Which is such a woman-thing go notice, but I don't think it can be him just bc of this. Unless of course one of the pics could be inverted... Any ideas?

    Sorry if someone pointed this out already (I'm a little late in the game). So the George Bush pic is super interesting and honestly pretty convincing... Except the part in his hair is on the wrong side. Which is such a woman-thing go notice, but I don't think it can be him just bc of this. Unless of course one of the pics could be inverted... Any ideas?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    That was my first thought as well inverted pic. I'd love if some could put a date to that picture. Cheers Nic

    That was my first thought as well inverted pic. I'd love if some could put a date to that picture.
    Cheers Nic

  • Ali

    Ali Pittsburgh

    When you mentioned the adult male who could possibly be involved (in episode 2).. who has moved out of the area but could possibly visit his family on holidays... Has anyone ever looked into what type of vehicle his parents have owned at the time?

    When you mentioned the adult male who could possibly be involved (in episode 2).. who has moved out of the area but could possibly visit his family on holidays...
    Has anyone ever looked into what type of vehicle his parents have owned at the time?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Ali • Pittsburgh I am sure the cops or the ex FBI workers probably have but I am not for sure.

    Ali • Pittsburgh

    I am sure the cops or the ex FBI workers probably have but I am not for sure.

  • Cindy M

    Cindy M Texas

    How do you guys feel about the Jeff Gannon connection? (This is the guy that was a White House reporter and whose credentials were flaky....do you think there is a resemblance?)

    How do you guys feel about the Jeff Gannon connection? (This is the guy that was a White House reporter and whose credentials were flaky....do you think there is a resemblance?)

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Cindy M • Texas Jeff Gannon conection seems very odd. Needs to be looked into more. Captain

    Cindy M • Texas

    Jeff Gannon conection seems very odd. Needs to be looked into more.

    Captain

  • Tom R

    Tom R Dallas, TX

    Catching up on old episodes while waiting for new ones... This was one of the most fascinating and disturbing cases I've ever heard of. I hope you guys can go back someday and dig deeper into the Lincoln scandal, or any other crazy twist and turns this case lead to. What was the back story on the correctional officer who owned the ranch in Colorado that seems to have disappeared and abandoned the property? So many great tangents to veer off into!

    Catching up on old episodes while waiting for new ones... This was one of the most fascinating and disturbing cases I've ever heard of. I hope you guys can go back someday and dig deeper into the Lincoln scandal, or any other crazy twist and turns this case lead to. What was the back story on the correctional officer who owned the ranch in Colorado that seems to have disappeared and abandoned the property? So many great tangents to veer off into!

  • Christina

    Christina

    Don't laugh at me, but what about the speculation at one point that Jeff Gannon was Johnny Gosch? I'm not saying I believe it for sure, but some things are weird. He won't take a polygraph. I searched and searched for evidence of his real parents existing but there isn't any. He doesn't seem to have any family. There are also pictures of Bush Jr. kissing him on the forehead at some event. I believe he knows the Bush family and didn't just walk in off the street, with no credentials, to start lobbing softballs at Bush during briefings. They are friends and that was planned. I know it's far fetched and another crazy twist in a story full of a million crazy twists but everything about this case is so unbelievable that I'm not going to discount the possibility it's true. Why won't he take a DNA test? He has agreed to before and backed out at the last minute. Also, I believe he has claimed to have family, but where are they? Noreen doesn't seem to have tried to get his DNA and have it tested herself. It wouldn't be that hard to find out where he likes to eat, or goes for coffee, or maybe what his favorite bar is and to grab a bottle or cup he had been drinking from at some point. If Noreen didn't want to do it because she thought he'd notice her, I'm sure someone would do it for her. In fact, I really can't imagine a world in which she hasn't at least tried that. Right? Johnny's disappearance has consumed her life. If I thought of it, I'm sure she has too. Maybe she knows whether or not Johnny and Jeff are one in the same and has her reasons for keeping the truth to herself. Idkk. Everything about this case is so crazy I feel like anything is possible.

    Don't laugh at me, but what about the speculation at one point that Jeff Gannon was Johnny Gosch? I'm not saying I believe it for sure, but some things are weird. He won't take a polygraph. I searched and searched for evidence of his real parents existing but there isn't any. He doesn't seem to have any family. There are also pictures of Bush Jr. kissing him on the forehead at some event. I believe he knows the Bush family and didn't just walk in off the street, with no credentials, to start lobbing softballs at Bush during briefings. They are friends and that was planned. I know it's far fetched and another crazy twist in a story full of a million crazy twists but everything about this case is so unbelievable that I'm not going to discount the possibility it's true. Why won't he take a DNA test? He has agreed to before and backed out at the last minute. Also, I believe he has claimed to have family, but where are they? Noreen doesn't seem to have tried to get his DNA and have it tested herself. It wouldn't be that hard to find out where he likes to eat, or goes for coffee, or maybe what his favorite bar is and to grab a bottle or cup he had been drinking from at some point. If Noreen didn't want to do it because she thought he'd notice her, I'm sure someone would do it for her. In fact, I really can't imagine a world in which she hasn't at least tried that. Right? Johnny's disappearance has consumed her life. If I thought of it, I'm sure she has too. Maybe she knows whether or not Johnny and Jeff are one in the same and has her reasons for keeping the truth to herself. Idkk. Everything about this case is so crazy I feel like anything is possible.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    I still think there was a serial in the area that over the course of a decade probably is responsible for 4 -6 of these crimes all similar. I think in some cases, especially the earlier ones (including Johnny) he buried the bodies. I think this man is dead by now. I think he could have been in bad health or incarcerated by the late 80's. - Nic

    I still think there was a serial in the area that over the course of a decade probably is responsible for 4 -6 of these crimes all similar. I think in some cases, especially the earlier ones (including Johnny) he buried the bodies. I think this man is dead by now. I think he could have been in bad health or incarcerated by the late 80's. - Nic

  • Rachael

    Rachael Great unknown

    I just listened to these episodes, I'd heard of Johnny Gosch, but never knew much about the case. Anyway, I believe that more than likely Johnny is deceased, sadly. However, I gotta say Jeff Gannon does look like he could be Gosch, the noses and chins are very similar. I wish we could see a good picture of Johnny's ears because Gannon's are fairly distinctive. Anyway, crazy theory, but truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. Great podcast guys, I love listening to you whenever I can!

    I just listened to these episodes, I'd heard of Johnny Gosch, but never knew much about the case. Anyway, I believe that more than likely Johnny is deceased, sadly. However, I gotta say Jeff Gannon does look like he could be Gosch, the noses and chins are very similar. I wish we could see a good picture of Johnny's ears because Gannon's are fairly distinctive. Anyway, crazy theory, but truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

    Great podcast guys, I love listening to you whenever I can!

  • Phil D'Fridge

    Phil D'Fridge Brisbane, Australia

    Jeff Gannon/ Johnny Gosch: JG - same initials. Many people who create aliases retain their initials. Makes it easier to maintain the lie.

    Jeff Gannon/ Johnny Gosch: JG - same initials. Many people who create aliases retain their initials. Makes it easier to maintain the lie.

  • chris lee

    chris lee minnesota

    Look into the 1984 case of Eugene Martin. Paperboy abducted in Des Moines, also on a sunday morning. Last seen talking to a white male in his 30's.

    Look into the 1984 case of Eugene Martin. Paperboy abducted in Des Moines, also on a sunday morning. Last seen talking to a white male in his 30's.

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