JonBenet Ramsey ////// Santa Claus

18 comments

  • Jeff

    Jeff MN

    Keep the JBR episodes coming. You’d be doing an injustice to allow it less than a few hours of discussion! Merry Christmas, boys!

    Keep the JBR episodes coming. You’d be doing an injustice to allow it less than a few hours of discussion! Merry Christmas, boys!

  • Camille

    Camille Battle Ground, WA

    Personally, I believe Ockham's Razor should be used in many of these cases. The simplest answer, to me, is the Unknown Intruder theory. Given that another upper-class little girl in the community, who also probably paraded around stages and dance floors in precocious makeup and dresses, was nearly sexually assaulted and possibly abducted/murdered, it seems plausible that the suspect tried again on a different little girl. This would explain the use of the garrotte (sexual gratification), and also that the suspect may have waited inside the house while the Ramseys were at the evening parties, then attacked JonBenet in the night, just like the other little girl. The ransom note was just a red herring the suspect cooked up. The suspect may have assaulted other young girls in the Colorado area in the following years or, nervous about the JonBenet case, moved on to adult women or teens. All the other theories, while certainly possible, are too complex and specific. I do not believe the Ramseys were involved and that if they were, more evidence would have surfaced to place her death in their hands.

    Personally, I believe Ockham's Razor should be used in many of these cases. The simplest answer, to me, is the Unknown Intruder theory. Given that another upper-class little girl in the community, who also probably paraded around stages and dance floors in precocious makeup and dresses, was nearly sexually assaulted and possibly abducted/murdered, it seems plausible that the suspect tried again on a different little girl. This would explain the use of the garrotte (sexual gratification), and also that the suspect may have waited inside the house while the Ramseys were at the evening parties, then attacked JonBenet in the night, just like the other little girl. The ransom note was just a red herring the suspect cooked up. The suspect may have assaulted other young girls in the Colorado area in the following years or, nervous about the JonBenet case, moved on to adult women or teens.

    All the other theories, while certainly possible, are too complex and specific. I do not believe the Ramseys were involved and that if they were, more evidence would have surfaced to place her death in their hands.

  • Richard

    Richard Netherlands

    Despite the bevvy of suspects, my take-away from this eps. was some damming implications for the Ramseys. First. The letter never made any sense. If the police had done their jobs right they would have found her body within what, half an hour at most? The killer couldn't have foreseen such a delay. Why on earth leave a ransom letter at a murder scene? Makes no sense. Secondly. Clues in the letter. Any person would know a letter is a risk. It's physical evidence you leave behind. In the letter itself one can leave clues subconsciously. Why the risk if the girl was already dead and anyone would assume she would be found rather quick. Even more stupid would be actually put clues in the letter. The ransom amount of $118,000 has like a huge red neon sign pointing at it, "Look at this!" Only possible reasons: 1. the killer was an idiot, 2. the killer thought it was a clever red herring, 3. it's there to frame someone. Is there a person connected to $118,000? Well what do you know. Disgruntled ex-employee Jeff Merrick once said he was owed 118,000. Who does Mr. Ramsey name to the police? Unless you're a coincidence theorist this smacks like a frame, or attempted frame. There are no other credible explanations for this precise amount. And imo the only conceivable purpose for putting it in the letter is an attempted frame job. Were there other people aware of this claim by Jeff Merrick besides the Ramseys? Sure, but that would get really convoluted. If the letter contains another clue pointing towards Jeff that would cement it. Nic, you tried to find a persuasive answer to the S.B.T.C. abbreviation. If anyone can find a connection between Jeff Merrick and S.B.T.C. (or any part of the letter, though not much there) that would be massive. What it would mean for the Ramseys would be clear.

    Despite the bevvy of suspects, my take-away from this eps. was some damming implications for the Ramseys.

    First. The letter never made any sense. If the police had done their jobs right they would have found her body within what, half an hour at most? The killer couldn't have foreseen such a delay. Why on earth leave a ransom letter at a murder scene? Makes no sense.

    Secondly. Clues in the letter. Any person would know a letter is a risk. It's physical evidence you leave behind. In the letter itself one can leave clues subconsciously. Why the risk if the girl was already dead and anyone would assume she would be found rather quick.
    Even more stupid would be actually put clues in the letter. The ransom amount of $118,000 has like a huge red neon sign pointing at it, "Look at this!"
    Only possible reasons: 1. the killer was an idiot, 2. the killer thought it was a clever red herring, 3. it's there to frame someone.

    Is there a person connected to $118,000? Well what do you know. Disgruntled ex-employee Jeff Merrick once said he was owed 118,000.
    Who does Mr. Ramsey name to the police?

    Unless you're a coincidence theorist this smacks like a frame, or attempted frame.

    There are no other credible explanations for this precise amount. And imo the only conceivable purpose for putting it in the letter is an attempted frame job.

    Were there other people aware of this claim by Jeff Merrick besides the Ramseys? Sure, but that would get really convoluted.

    If the letter contains another clue pointing towards Jeff that would cement it.
    Nic, you tried to find a persuasive answer to the S.B.T.C. abbreviation.
    If anyone can find a connection between Jeff Merrick and S.B.T.C. (or any part of the letter, though not much there) that would be massive.

    What it would mean for the Ramseys would be clear.

  • Jessica

    Jessica TX

    After listen to this podcast episode, I believe that S.B.J.C. if that is in fact the lettering could be Santa Bill and Jessie Claus (his son who has kidnapping charges) or it could be Santa Bill and Janet Claus (his wife) . If it is in fact a T, Santa Bill had a son named Tristan which could be a possibility. Another note, if it was Santa Bill, who I believe it was, he would have be infatuated with JonBenet and possibly fantasized about her being his partner which could mean that he signed this note as Santa Bill and JonBenet Claus.

    After listen to this podcast episode, I believe that S.B.J.C. if that is in fact the lettering could be Santa Bill and Jessie Claus (his son who has kidnapping charges) or it could be Santa Bill and Janet Claus (his wife) . If it is in fact a T, Santa Bill had a son named Tristan which could be a possibility. Another note, if it was Santa Bill, who I believe it was, he would have be infatuated with JonBenet and possibly fantasized about her being his partner which could mean that he signed this note as Santa Bill and JonBenet Claus.

  • Straydog77

    Straydog77 Reddit

    It's disappointing to hear so many basic errors about Michael Helgoth. Did you guys actually look at the case documents, or did you just watch an old A&E Documentary and say "hey, let's make a podcast"? I would expect a higher standard of fact-checking from people who are actually making money to talk about the case. THE HELGOTH THEORY: First off, we need to look at where the "Michael Helgoth theory" came from. Michael Helgoth was a guy with no criminal record and no documented history of violence, who never met the Ramseys, never went to the house, and had absolutely no connection to the Ramseys. The whole reason his name gets brought up is because of a theory from a man named John Kenady, a convicted sex offender with a long criminal record who, according to Boulder County Sheriff Joe Pelle, "had had some mental problems". In addition to these obvious credibility issues, Kenady clearly has a personal history with Helgoth. John Kenady is not the first lowlife who claimed to have "cracked the case" by accusing an acquaintance. Bernice Johnson accused Todd Fuss. Andrew Novick accused Robert Ferbrache. Glenn Meyer's ex-wife accused Glenn Meyer. This is a high profile case, and high profile cases attract nuts. Over the years Kenady has gone from saying he was sure Helgoth crushed Jonbenet's skull, to saying he thinks Helgoth was just "involved" with a group of killers. All this stuff about Helgoth "coming into some money", the stuff about liking "young girls" - this is all totally unsubstantiated hearsay from Kenady. THE "PROPERTY DISPUTE" You tell us Helgoth "was apparently in some kind of property dispute with the Ramseys". This is completely untrue. If you had checked where this came from, you would see it came from a 1995 news article about an auto yard owned by Helgoth's father, which was going to be sold to the Boulder City Council to build a public park. There was no "conflict" about the sale. There was absolutely no mention of the Ramseys or any link to the Ramsey family whatsoever. Internet posters somehow twisted this into a conflict between Helgoth and the Ramseys - some idiot claimed that John's company headquarters were built on the former site of the auto yard. In fact, John's company's headquarters already existed in 1995, and they were in the center of Boulder, nowhere near the auto yard. The Ramseys had nothing to do with any of it. The Helgoths weren't even mad at the council. The council didn't even end up buying the land until 2007. It is just a complete non-issue that got blown up by rabid Ramsey-supporters on the internet in the early 2000s. HELGOTH'S SUICIDE You guys speculate that Helgoth may have been murdered by someone involved in the Jonbenet's death or may have " caught wind that he was a suspect and decided to take his own life" The fact is, Michael Helgoth committed suicide on Valentine's Day, 1997, at the age of 26. He had recently broken up with his girlfriend (this was confirmed by a friend who had attended Helgoth's funeral). His younger sister had been diagnosed with cancer and was dying (she died the following year at the age of 21). According to friends he was "heavily into drugs" and depressed in the lead-up to his suicide. This was a tragic case of a young guy who took his own life. HELGOTH'S BOOTS You claim that Helgoth's Hi-Tec boots "possibly matched one of two sets of unidentified footprints found in the Ramseys' basement". "That's very troubling," you say, "that we have unidentified shoe prints in the Ramseys' basement". Helgoth's boots were handed over to police by the Ramseys' private investigator Ollie Gray in August, 2000. Police passed them on to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) for analysis. Forensic footprint analysis is when you compare the wear patterns and defects on a shoe and a footprint. Even with a partial print, like the one in this case, it can determine if a boot could have made a print or not. On November 21, 2000 Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner announced the results of CBI's tests: "The boots do not match," Beckner said Monday. He told the Boulder Daily Camera the results had come back "about two weeks ago". He added that "DNA tests and interviews with friends and family of the man who owned the boots led police to conclude the man was not involved in the little girl's mysterious killing. "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner said." A simple search through the relevant news stories would have showed you this. Also, you probably would have stumbled on this article from That's right, the print in the basement has been matched. To Burke Ramsey. Burke Ramsey had specifically told the Grand Jury that he owned Hi-Tec boots, even describing how he liked pointing them in different directions because they had a compass on the shoelaces (a distinctive feature of the Hi-Tec brand). Burke's friend Fleet White JR also stated that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots. Burke was asked about this again in 2016 and he again confirmed that he owned boots with compasses on the laces. Burke pointed out that he went down to the basement all the time, and there is no reason to assume the prints are connected to the killing. I happen to agree with Burke on this point. HELGOTH'S DNA Here's what you guys said about Helgoth's DNA: Tweedledum: "I believe they've asked the family of Helgoth to cooperate and try and give them some DNA to test and I believe they have said no." Tweedledee: "Several sources in print say he's been cleared by DNA, and I throw that back at the wall to see if it sticks, and I don't know if it sticks ... the jury is still out." How about instead of throwing shit at the wall, you actually do some research? On September 1, 2000, "Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said detectives took DNA samples from the person in 1997 and learned it does not match DNA found at the Ramsey crime scene." (Boulder Daily Camera, September 1, 2000) Here's my problem with this podcast. You say "you can't exclude him as a suspect, provided the other puzzle pieces fit, and we can't confirm that they fit". But you could have confirmed that they don't fit! You had an opportunity here to clear up a bit of pointless mythology that has been floating around this case for way too long. But instead, you sat there and wasted twenty minutes talking about this guy as though he might be a credible suspect. It's a waste of your time and your listeners' time. And honestly, it's kind of offensive, not just to the memory of an innocent man who was given no opportunity to defend himself, but to the intelligence of all who try to discuss this case in a rational way. It's no coincidence that this theory was pitched to the media by private investigators who were PAID BY ANOTHER SUSPECT IN THE KILLING. Let's stop kidding ourselves - the speculation and the "mysterious uncertainties" about Helgoth exist for one purpose and one purpose only: to bolster the Ramseys' public image. By the way, Gary Oliva (not "Olivia") also gave DNA, and was investigated and cleared by the DA's office back in 2003. I stopped listening after Helgoth because it's obvious you guys are not offering anything other than the usual outdated speculation. There are so many interesting facets of the Ramsey case. It's unfortunately that you chose to just rehash things that were debunked 19 years ago, and I hope in future episodes you are a little more rigorous with your sources.

    It's disappointing to hear so many basic errors about Michael Helgoth. Did you guys actually look at the case documents, or did you just watch an old A&E Documentary and say "hey, let's make a podcast"? I would expect a higher standard of fact-checking from people who are actually making money to talk about the case.

    THE HELGOTH THEORY:

    First off, we need to look at where the "Michael Helgoth theory" came from. Michael Helgoth was a guy with no criminal record and no documented history of violence, who never met the Ramseys, never went to the house, and had absolutely no connection to the Ramseys.

    The whole reason his name gets brought up is because of a theory from a man named John Kenady, a convicted sex offender with a long criminal record who, according to Boulder County Sheriff Joe Pelle, "had had some mental problems". In addition to these obvious credibility issues, Kenady clearly has a personal history with Helgoth. John Kenady is not the first lowlife who claimed to have "cracked the case" by accusing an acquaintance. Bernice Johnson accused Todd Fuss. Andrew Novick accused Robert Ferbrache. Glenn Meyer's ex-wife accused Glenn Meyer. This is a high profile case, and high profile cases attract nuts.

    Over the years Kenady has gone from saying he was sure Helgoth crushed Jonbenet's skull, to saying he thinks Helgoth was just "involved" with a group of killers. All this stuff about Helgoth "coming into some money", the stuff about liking "young girls" - this is all totally unsubstantiated hearsay from Kenady.

    THE "PROPERTY DISPUTE"

    You tell us Helgoth "was apparently in some kind of property dispute with the Ramseys".

    This is completely untrue. If you had checked where this came from, you would see it came from a 1995 news article about an auto yard owned by Helgoth's father, which was going to be sold to the Boulder City Council to build a public park. There was no "conflict" about the sale. There was absolutely no mention of the Ramseys or any link to the Ramsey family whatsoever.

    Internet posters somehow twisted this into a conflict between Helgoth and the Ramseys - some idiot claimed that John's company headquarters were built on the former site of the auto yard. In fact, John's company's headquarters already existed in 1995, and they were in the center of Boulder, nowhere near the auto yard. The Ramseys had nothing to do with any of it. The Helgoths weren't even mad at the council. The council didn't even end up buying the land until 2007. It is just a complete non-issue that got blown up by rabid Ramsey-supporters on the internet in the early 2000s.

    HELGOTH'S SUICIDE

    You guys speculate that Helgoth may have been murdered by someone involved in the Jonbenet's death or may have " caught wind that he was a suspect and decided to take his own life"

    The fact is, Michael Helgoth committed suicide on Valentine's Day, 1997, at the age of 26. He had recently broken up with his girlfriend (this was confirmed by a friend who had attended Helgoth's funeral). His younger sister had been diagnosed with cancer and was dying (she died the following year at the age of 21). According to friends he was "heavily into drugs" and depressed in the lead-up to his suicide. This was a tragic case of a young guy who took his own life.

    HELGOTH'S BOOTS

    You claim that Helgoth's Hi-Tec boots "possibly matched one of two sets of unidentified footprints found in the Ramseys' basement". "That's very troubling," you say, "that we have unidentified shoe prints in the Ramseys' basement".

    Helgoth's boots were handed over to police by the Ramseys' private investigator Ollie Gray in August, 2000. Police passed them on to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) for analysis. Forensic footprint analysis is when you compare the wear patterns and defects on a shoe and a footprint. Even with a partial print, like the one in this case, it can determine if a boot could have made a print or not.

    On November 21, 2000 Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner announced the results of CBI's tests: "The boots do not match," Beckner said Monday. He told the Boulder Daily Camera the results had come back "about two weeks ago". He added that "DNA tests and interviews with friends and family of the man who owned the boots led police to conclude the man was not involved in the little girl's mysterious killing. "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner said."

    A simple search through the relevant news stories would have showed you this. Also, you probably would have stumbled on this article from

    That's right, the print in the basement has been matched. To Burke Ramsey. Burke Ramsey had specifically told the Grand Jury that he owned Hi-Tec boots, even describing how he liked pointing them in different directions because they had a compass on the shoelaces (a distinctive feature of the Hi-Tec brand). Burke's friend Fleet White JR also stated that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots. Burke was asked about this again in 2016 and he again confirmed that he owned boots with compasses on the laces. Burke pointed out that he went down to the basement all the time, and there is no reason to assume the prints are connected to the killing. I happen to agree with Burke on this point.

    HELGOTH'S DNA

    Here's what you guys said about Helgoth's DNA:

    Tweedledum: "I believe they've asked the family of Helgoth to cooperate and try and give them some DNA to test and I believe they have said no."

    Tweedledee: "Several sources in print say he's been cleared by DNA, and I throw that back at the wall to see if it sticks, and I don't know if it sticks ... the jury is still out."

    How about instead of throwing shit at the wall, you actually do some research? On September 1, 2000, "Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said detectives took DNA samples from the person in 1997 and learned it does not match DNA found at the Ramsey crime scene." (Boulder Daily Camera, September 1, 2000)

    Here's my problem with this podcast. You say "you can't exclude him as a suspect, provided the other puzzle pieces fit, and we can't confirm that they fit".

    But you could have confirmed that they don't fit! You had an opportunity here to clear up a bit of pointless mythology that has been floating around this case for way too long. But instead, you sat there and wasted twenty minutes talking about this guy as though he might be a credible suspect. It's a waste of your time and your listeners' time. And honestly, it's kind of offensive, not just to the memory of an innocent man who was given no opportunity to defend himself, but to the intelligence of all who try to discuss this case in a rational way.

    It's no coincidence that this theory was pitched to the media by private investigators who were PAID BY ANOTHER SUSPECT IN THE KILLING. Let's stop kidding ourselves - the speculation and the "mysterious uncertainties" about Helgoth exist for one purpose and one purpose only: to bolster the Ramseys' public image.

    By the way, Gary Oliva (not "Olivia") also gave DNA, and was investigated and cleared by the DA's office back in 2003.

    I stopped listening after Helgoth because it's obvious you guys are not offering anything other than the usual outdated speculation. There are so many interesting facets of the Ramsey case. It's unfortunately that you chose to just rehash things that were debunked 19 years ago, and I hope in future episodes you are a little more rigorous with your sources.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Straydog77 Neither one of us said we think it was Michael. We were simply pointing out major suspects in this case. Also we create around 9 hours of content....we would be geniuses if we could do that after watching the A&E documentary. Captain

    Straydog77

    Neither one of us said we think it was Michael. We were simply pointing out major suspects in this case. Also we create around 9 hours of content....we would be geniuses if we could do that after watching the A&E documentary.

    Captain

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    @Straydog77 grab a snickers Betty White. You're getting feisty.

    @Straydog77 grab a snickers Betty White. You're getting feisty.

  • Todd

    Todd Atlanta

    I have a question for everyone that keeps saying an Intruder broke in while they were gone to the Christmas Party and got familiar with the house and also used all that time to write the note. It is very Unlikely that an Unknown Intruder would have KNOWN that the family was going out to a party and would be gone from the house for a few hours. Sure, it could have been someone close to the family who knew about the party, but an UI wouldn't have known that. As for the Note, IF it was written beforehand, then why Re-write it? That would have to be the case if true because we know that 1 if not more "Practice" Notes were found in Patsy's Notepad. I agree, that there is plenty of evidence to suggest a number of possible suspects/theories. However, I have always felt it was Burke and it was an accident. I would like to know if The Ramseys had ever discussed Burke's behavior with any of their close friends or relatives...? If so, then IF Burke really did do it and then the Ramseys come out and say that it was all an accident, then anyone who would have known about Burke's previous behavior issues towards his sister would have been Immediately suspicious of the "accident". Captain and Nic, I have been waiting for these episodes ever since you guys hinted at covering this case on Off the Record, you guys are Definitely doing it justice! Exceptional Work!!

    I have a question for everyone that keeps saying an Intruder broke in while they were gone to the Christmas Party and got familiar with the house and also used all that time to write the note. It is very Unlikely that an Unknown Intruder would have KNOWN that the family was going out to a party and would be gone from the house for a few hours. Sure, it could have been someone close to the family who knew about the party, but an UI wouldn't have known that. As for the Note, IF it was written beforehand, then why Re-write it? That would have to be the case if true because we know that 1 if not more "Practice" Notes were found in Patsy's Notepad. I agree, that there is plenty of evidence to suggest a number of possible suspects/theories. However, I have always felt it was Burke and it was an accident. I would like to know if The Ramseys had ever discussed Burke's behavior with any of their close friends or relatives...? If so, then IF Burke really did do it and then the Ramseys come out and say that it was all an accident, then anyone who would have known about Burke's previous behavior issues towards his sister would have been Immediately suspicious of the "accident".
    Captain and Nic,
    I have been waiting for these episodes ever since you guys hinted at covering this case on Off the Record, you guys are Definitely doing it justice! Exceptional Work!!

  • Belindna

    Belindna Kentucky

    Everyone assumes the ransom note was written inside the house. What if someone took paper with them on a previous visit and wrote the note elsewhere. Then folded it, put it in their coat pocket and left it when they entered to commit the crime.

    Everyone assumes the ransom note was written inside the house. What if someone took paper with them on a previous visit and wrote the note elsewhere. Then folded it, put it in their coat pocket and left it when they entered to commit the crime.

  • Nicholas

    Nicholas Parts Unknown

    Although this is the season of true believers, these intruder theories require such an incredible amount of logical gymnastics as to make theories regarding alien abductions and the chupacabra seem likely by comparison. I have two favorites that involve this sort of tortured logic. The first is the Helgoth character, who apparently was so shaken up by the announcement of the investigators hinting that they might be seeking the death penalty that he committed suicide (try that on for twisted logic!) The second is "Santa Bill". We are supposed to believe that this creepy old Santa guy in his mid 60's, five months after having his sternum split open for bypass graft surgery, is lowering himself through a small basement window and, after committing murder, attempting to hoist JonBenet through that same window. He was apparently elderly creepy Santa with superpowers. The fact that the DA felt "Santa Bill" was her main suspect is hardly surprising given that this same DA who was so eager to assist the Ramsey's that she decided to “completely exonerate“ all family members based on such scant DNA evidence on the victim's underwear that it could’ve been left by individuals originally packing it following its manufacture. These theories all have in common that we are asked to believe that the mystery intruder had great cunning and ninja-like stealth abilities, sneaking unseen to the home, surreptitiously gaining entry to a house filled with sleeping people, taking this child into the basement undetected to commit a brutal sexual assault and murder, but then suddenly and inexplicably becoming fool hearty and reckless enough to take a great deal of time to write a bogus ransom note that gained him or her no particular advantage. It takes some strange and tortured logic indeed to cast our eyes away from the obvious suspects in this case, the victim's own family, which is the apparent focus of your final episode.

    Although this is the season of true believers, these intruder theories require such an incredible amount of logical gymnastics as to make theories regarding alien abductions and the chupacabra seem likely by comparison. I have two favorites that involve this sort of tortured logic. The first is the Helgoth character, who apparently was so shaken up by the announcement of the investigators hinting that they might be seeking the death penalty that he committed suicide (try that on for twisted logic!) The second is "Santa Bill". We are supposed to believe that this creepy old Santa guy in his mid 60's, five months after having his sternum split open for bypass graft surgery, is lowering himself through a small basement window and, after committing murder, attempting to hoist JonBenet through that same window. He was apparently elderly creepy Santa with superpowers. The fact that the DA felt "Santa Bill" was her main suspect is hardly surprising given that this same DA who was so eager to assist the Ramsey's that she decided to “completely exonerate“ all family members based on such scant DNA evidence on the victim's underwear that it could’ve been left by individuals originally packing it following its manufacture. These theories all have in common that we are asked to believe that the mystery intruder had great cunning and ninja-like stealth abilities, sneaking unseen to the home, surreptitiously gaining entry to a house filled with sleeping people, taking this child into the basement undetected to commit a brutal sexual assault and murder, but then suddenly and inexplicably becoming fool hearty and reckless enough to take a great deal of time to write a bogus ransom note that gained him or her no particular advantage. It takes some strange and tortured logic indeed to cast our eyes away from the obvious suspects in this case, the victim's own family, which is the apparent focus of your final episode.

  • AdequateSizeAttache

    AdequateSizeAttache Reddit

    That you even consider Helgoth a "major suspect" to begin with is a big part of the problem. He was never a major suspect - he was one of many people who were investigated and cleared in the early days of the case. He was turned into a "major suspect" by the prime suspects of this homicide investigation through media campaigning and you guys are falling for it hook.line.sinker.

    That you even consider Helgoth a "major suspect" to begin with is a big part of the problem. He was never a major suspect - he was one of many people who were investigated and cleared in the early days of the case. He was turned into a "major suspect" by the prime suspects of this homicide investigation through media campaigning and you guys are falling for it hook.line.sinker.

  • straydog77

    straydog77 Reddit

    Your "evidence" for why Michael Helgoth is a major suspect was debunked by 2002. Also, Gary Oliva (not "Olivia") also gave DNA and was investigated and cleared by the DA's office in 2003.

    Your "evidence" for why Michael Helgoth is a major suspect was debunked by 2002.

    Also, Gary Oliva (not "Olivia") also gave DNA and was investigated and cleared by the DA's office in 2003.

  • Rachel

    Rachel O-H-I-O

    Belinda, and then in addition to the note they also brought the pad and pen back and put them back on Patsy’s writing desk? Possible. Not plausible. Also, pages like 25-27 of the pad were found in the garbage with a draft of the ransom note on them. Not the whole thing, but the salutation. That note was definitely written inside the house.

    Belinda, and then in addition to the note they also brought the pad and pen back and put them back on Patsy’s writing desk? Possible. Not plausible. Also, pages like 25-27 of the pad were found in the garbage with a draft of the ransom note on them. Not the whole thing, but the salutation. That note was definitely written inside the house.

  • Katie

    Katie Iowa

    After listening to the Santa episode I was scrolling through Facebook and watched a video that came up about distracted driving and at the end of it there was a clip of the kids in a kitchen https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/devastated-family-wants-every-driver-16744770 Watch the end and see what stick out like a sore thumb in the background.. it won’t let me paste a pic.. but tscb ... maybe it is that simple that the killer saw this in their kitchen that the ransom note was written in...

    After listening to the Santa episode I was scrolling through Facebook and watched a video that came up about distracted driving and at the end of it there was a clip of the kids in a kitchen https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/devastated-family-wants-every-driver-16744770 Watch the end and see what stick out like a sore thumb in the background.. it won’t let me paste a pic.. but tscb ... maybe it is that simple that the killer saw this in their kitchen that the ransom note was written in...

  • david davis

    david davis AL

    I was originally going to listen to the entire series before making a comment in hopes that multiple sides to this story might have been presented fairly but since it doesn't seem that this is going to happen here goes. 1. You make Jonbenets "second Santa" story to be extremely ominous. You might have mentioned that one of the reasons that this was not given credence was that the family planned to go to the vacation home where a second set of gifts would be given to the larger family, and she had been told that they would have a second santa visit. 2. The captain talks about how creepy it was that Santa Bill was going to adult book stores and not telling his wife about. I have to wonder how many sixty + married men go and tell there wives that they're going to town and buying porn. 3. You rather easily dismiss the skepticism than an elderly man who had recently had by-pass surgery would be planning abduction-sex murders that involved him entering a home in the dark, wandering up and down over three stories abducting and molesting a young girl, writing an epic suicide note and escaping the home without leaving any physical evidence tying him to the scene. As to the ludicrous assertions regarding the SBT or J C, note, doesn't it kind of imply that Santa (and lets face it Mrs. Claus would have had to have been involved) must have really wanted to get caught , leaving initials that could be traced to him, leaving the body in a cellar pointing to his wife's book etc. It would make more sense to me that J. Ramsey might have used SBJC and then helpfully suggested it might have been Santa. This really begins to display the the argumentative fallacy of special pleading to incredible heights. If you were into the Satanic Panic theories I would have expected you to point out the similarity between Santa and Satan Claus. I suspect your influenced by a reverence for john Douglas, who in my opinion reduced himself to the level of being a hired gun by giving the Ramseys the testimony they paid for. Secondly , like virtually all TC pod-casters you are influenced by the fact that there is a current obsession with "wrongfully convicted" cases even in cases where they a clearly not wrongfully convicted. I would go on but I dont want to exceed the length of the ransom note. Sorry guys you've some great shows but these arent among them. Appreciating the revelry of the season I thing you guys are hitting the beer fund a little early this month. ddavis

    I was originally going to listen to the entire series before making a comment in hopes that multiple sides to this story might have been presented fairly but since it doesn't seem that this is going to happen here goes. 1. You make Jonbenets "second Santa" story to be extremely ominous. You might have mentioned that one of the reasons that this was not given credence was that the family planned to go to the vacation home where a second set of gifts would be given to the larger family, and she had been told that they would have a second santa visit. 2. The captain talks about how creepy it was that Santa Bill was going to adult book stores and not telling his wife about. I have to wonder how many sixty + married men go and tell there wives that they're going to town and buying porn. 3. You rather easily dismiss the skepticism than an elderly man who had recently had by-pass surgery would be planning abduction-sex murders that involved him entering a home in the dark, wandering up and down over three stories abducting and molesting a young girl, writing an epic suicide note and escaping the home without leaving any physical evidence tying him to the scene. As to the ludicrous assertions regarding the SBT or J C, note, doesn't it kind of imply that Santa (and lets face it Mrs. Claus would have had to have been involved) must have really wanted to get caught , leaving initials that could be traced to him, leaving the body in a cellar pointing to his wife's book etc. It would make more sense to me that J. Ramsey might have used SBJC and then helpfully suggested it might have been Santa. This really begins to display the the argumentative fallacy of special pleading to incredible heights. If you were into the Satanic Panic theories I would have expected you to point out the similarity between Santa and Satan Claus. I suspect your influenced by a reverence for john Douglas, who in my opinion reduced himself to the level of being a hired gun by giving the Ramseys the testimony they paid for. Secondly , like virtually all TC pod-casters you are influenced by the fact that there is a current obsession with "wrongfully convicted" cases even in cases where they a clearly not wrongfully convicted. I would go on but I dont want to exceed the length of the ransom note. Sorry guys you've some great shows but these arent among them. Appreciating the revelry of the season I thing you guys are hitting the beer fund a little early this month. ddavis

  • Katherine Kay

    Katherine Kay Missouri

    For a long time I thought it was someone in the family that had to have done it. Then I thought a family friend, then I was back to family, Burke in particular. Then I was listening to this episode of this wonderful non bias coverage that you have done on this case (beer in hand). And what was said about the unknown intruder struck me as something that could really be a possibility. What are the chances that another girl gets attacked in her home 9 months later and she just so happen to go to the same dace school as Jonbenet? That is where the connection lies. So either it is a male that is connected with that school in some manner or connected to one of the children that was in that school at that time along with both those students. I think the police missed a huge opportunity to look into this. That is real predator stomping grounds to find victims. To hold a job there even as a desk clerk or to be a dad bringing your child to class. Then to know that most likely the man was inside the other child's home before her and her mother returned, that means that if this is the same person that killed Jonbenet then more than likely he was in their home too before they got home. Here is another thing to think about. If Jonbenet knew him from the class, or seen him around she might not have been afraid of him and went downstairs with him willingly, he might have even been the Santa Claus she was referring to that Captain keeps talking about. It might not be a literal Santa. The man might have told her the last time he saw her that he was going to visit her after Christmas, "make a Santa visit and bring her a gift". When I was younger I had a man that would follow me everywhere. Even after my father, neighbor, and neighbors son chased him up the alley this guy would still show up watching me and trying to get close to me. It went on for many years. One thing is for sure, when predators see someone they want, nothing stops them. I was lucky that the man was finally put away for indecent exposure and I guess when and if he got out I was too old for him any longer, I aged out of his liking. Hopefully he never harmed anyone but I have no idea.

    For a long time I thought it was someone in the family that had to have done it. Then I thought a family friend, then I was back to family, Burke in particular. Then I was listening to this episode of this wonderful non bias coverage that you have done on this case (beer in hand). And what was said about the unknown intruder struck me as something that could really be a possibility. What are the chances that another girl gets attacked in her home 9 months later and she just so happen to go to the same dace school as Jonbenet? That is where the connection lies. So either it is a male that is connected with that school in some manner or connected to one of the children that was in that school at that time along with both those students. I think the police missed a huge opportunity to look into this. That is real predator stomping grounds to find victims. To hold a job there even as a desk clerk or to be a dad bringing your child to class. Then to know that most likely the man was inside the other child's home before her and her mother returned, that means that if this is the same person that killed Jonbenet then more than likely he was in their home too before they got home. Here is another thing to think about. If Jonbenet knew him from the class, or seen him around she might not have been afraid of him and went downstairs with him willingly, he might have even been the Santa Claus she was referring to that Captain keeps talking about. It might not be a literal Santa. The man might have told her the last time he saw her that he was going to visit her after Christmas, "make a Santa visit and bring her a gift".

    When I was younger I had a man that would follow me everywhere. Even after my father, neighbor, and neighbors son chased him up the alley this guy would still show up watching me and trying to get close to me. It went on for many years. One thing is for sure, when predators see someone they want, nothing stops them. I was lucky that the man was finally put away for indecent exposure and I guess when and if he got out I was too old for him any longer, I aged out of his liking. Hopefully he never harmed anyone but I have no idea.

  • Amy

    Amy KC

    Katherine Kay you make some very good points!! i didnt even think about the dance school!

    Katherine Kay you make some very good points!! i didnt even think about the dance school!

  • Michele Towe

    Michele Towe Chattanooga, tn

    I have always felt it was Santa bill. SBSC - Santa bill; Santa Claus

    I have always felt it was Santa bill. SBSC - Santa bill; Santa Claus

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