Lane Bryant Shooting /// 200 /// 201

101 comments

  • Cheryl

    Cheryl Buffalo

    Don’t let those haters bother u Nic!! your a good guy who cares and u treat eveything u discuss with respect and bring a strong sense of community to the podcast. U guys care and it shows 😘😘😘😘 keep being sweet , cheers mate 🍺- ur girl -cheryl

    Don’t let those haters bother u Nic!! your a good guy who cares and u treat eveything u discuss with respect and bring a strong sense of community to the podcast. U guys care and it shows 😘😘😘😘 keep being sweet , cheers mate 🍺- ur girl -cheryl

  • Andy

    Andy Ontario

    No such thing as a Smith and Wesson "Glock". It's probably. Smith and Wesson M&P.

    No such thing as a Smith and Wesson "Glock".
    It's probably. Smith and Wesson M&P.

  • Marlin

    Marlin Cbus

    The audio for this episode is awful on Stitcher. Usually the quality is stellar, but something is up with this one. Just wanted to let you know. Love the podcast.

    The audio for this episode is awful on Stitcher. Usually the quality is stellar, but something is up with this one. Just wanted to let you know. Love the podcast.

  • Suzzieq464

    Suzzieq464 VA

    I’m sorry that some jack ass tried to start shit by using ur podcast for their hate and negativity!! I apologize for the asshole that is gutless and won’t. We love u guys and ur show. Keep up the amazing work. 💜

    I’m sorry that some jack ass tried to start shit by using ur podcast for their hate and negativity!! I apologize for the asshole that is gutless and won’t. We love u guys and ur show. Keep up the amazing work. 💜

  • D

    D North Bend, WA

    Great show guys. Thanks for all you do! Just FYI...the audio on Lane B. On Stitcher is terrible.

    Great show guys. Thanks for all you do! Just FYI...the audio on Lane B. On Stitcher is terrible.

  • Kayia

    Kayia UT

    Could he have chosen the target because of the shipping invoice he was using as his cover? Maybe he stole, or found the shipper and thought that he could use it.

    Could he have chosen the target because of the shipping invoice he was using as his cover? Maybe he stole, or found the shipper and thought that he could use it.

  • Gary

    Gary Pueblo, CO

    I’m thinking this is a woman.

    I’m thinking this is a woman.

  • B

    B Parts Unknown

    Just finished Part 2, I really do think it's a woman. I was thinking that yesterday as I was looking at the sketch. Listening to the 911 call again, I'm pretty convinced. Even if the witness states it was a male, people can be pretty androgynous, and the suspect may have been playing that up to be more unrecognizable. There have certainly been times in my life where I was unsure. Does anyone know what the caller says as she hangs up? Maybe "hang-up" since it's Bluetooth? My gut tells me it was just a robbery. I like the theory that he/she showed up early to just snag a few hundred and get in and out quickly. ALTHOUGH, the amount of time spent in the store does bother me. Maybe it was their first robbery? They planned it to some extent but once in the store, nerves/stress just took over. I agree that this was probably a very unstable person that went in for a robbery but it went off the rails. Given the timeline, I think that phone call did lead to the shootings. The suspect thinking that because the cops are close, there's a bigger chance they will be picked up for it and ID'd versus being able to get away and be long gone prior to the cops showing up. I do like the Captain's theory on a revenge killing. Perhaps she worked at another store, or had a problem with another store? Happy Birthday Captain!

    Just finished Part 2, I really do think it's a woman. I was thinking that yesterday as I was looking at the sketch. Listening to the 911 call again, I'm pretty convinced. Even if the witness states it was a male, people can be pretty androgynous, and the suspect may have been playing that up to be more unrecognizable. There have certainly been times in my life where I was unsure.

    Does anyone know what the caller says as she hangs up? Maybe "hang-up" since it's Bluetooth?

    My gut tells me it was just a robbery. I like the theory that he/she showed up early to just snag a few hundred and get in and out quickly. ALTHOUGH, the amount of time spent in the store does bother me. Maybe it was their first robbery? They planned it to some extent but once in the store, nerves/stress just took over. I agree that this was probably a very unstable person that went in for a robbery but it went off the rails. Given the timeline, I think that phone call did lead to the shootings. The suspect thinking that because the cops are close, there's a bigger chance they will be picked up for it and ID'd versus being able to get away and be long gone prior to the cops showing up. I do like the Captain's theory on a revenge killing. Perhaps she worked at another store, or had a problem with another store?

    Happy Birthday Captain!

  • Megan

    Megan WA

    The audio on Stitcher is pretty terrible for both parts of this episode. The episode is fascinating and I listened to it anyway, just thought you should know.

    The audio on Stitcher is pretty terrible for both parts of this episode. The episode is fascinating and I listened to it anyway, just thought you should know.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    At B So I've listened to that over and over - she may be saying Hang Up so that the robber does not hear the dispatcher... I have thought that she was repeating... Hurry as this may be the last thing she thinks she can say to the dispatcher. Emphasizing that they need to hurry and I can't stay in the phone as the man with the gun is "losing it"

    At B
    So I've listened to that over and over - she may be saying Hang Up so that the robber does not hear the dispatcher...
    I have thought that she was repeating... Hurry as this may be the last thing she thinks she can say to the dispatcher. Emphasizing that they need to hurry and I can't stay in the phone as the man with the gun is "losing it"

  • B

    B

    There is a survivor, right? I assume she told the police it was a man. That seems simple enough without bringing DNA and whatnot into this. Am I missing something here?

    There is a survivor, right? I assume she told the police it was a man. That seems simple enough without bringing DNA and whatnot into this. Am I missing something here?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    There is a lot of speculation if it is in fact a man. According to the witness the offender was make. Police suggest they have DNA - that could clear this up. Suggesting "good" DNA is one thing actually having it is another. The simple thought is could this have been a woman in men's clothing and because the survivor was terrorized, afraid and for most of the time bound and face down could she have the gender of the shooter wrong? Just food for thought and several websites have had this debate - so it was good to debate this. I think it's a man! Cheers Nic

    There is a lot of speculation if it is in fact a man. According to the witness the offender was make. Police suggest they have DNA - that could clear this up. Suggesting "good" DNA is one thing actually having it is another. The simple thought is could this have been a woman in men's clothing and because the survivor was terrorized, afraid and for most of the time bound and face down could she have the gender of the shooter wrong? Just food for thought and several websites have had this debate - so it was good to debate this. I think it's a man!
    Cheers Nic

  • Carol

    Carol California

    Regarding the voices heard in the background of the 911 calls, I believe there are 4 people talking. The caller, the 911 operator, the killer and one of the other victims. I know we're told that the victim's voices were edited out of the call, but to me it sounds like: Operator: 911 Emergency Caller : Lane Bryant Background Voice (a bit lower in register) Yo! Other background voice (sounds like a woman) Sir, we know that (something something) custody (maybe customers). I think the person that said yo was the killer, and that the higher register response was one of the other victims trying to placate the gunman. She even calls him Sir, as a retail salesperson would to a customer. I don't disagree that the killer may have been a woman, but just wanted to add that I hear two distinct background voices.

    Regarding the voices heard in the background of the 911 calls, I believe there are 4 people talking. The caller, the 911 operator, the killer and one of the other victims. I know we're told that the victim's voices were edited out of the call, but to me it sounds like:

    Operator: 911 Emergency
    Caller : Lane Bryant
    Background Voice (a bit lower in register) Yo!
    Other background voice (sounds like a woman) Sir, we know that (something something) custody (maybe customers).

    I think the person that said yo was the killer, and that the higher register response was one of the other victims trying to placate the gunman. She even calls him Sir, as a retail salesperson would to a customer.

    I don't disagree that the killer may have been a woman, but just wanted to add that I hear two distinct background voices.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    That's good work Carol... We know one of the women fought with the shooter for a bit. This could be the conversation between the two just before or after he hit her and she used her nails to defend herself. Nic

    That's good work Carol... We know one of the women fought with the shooter for a bit. This could be the conversation between the two just before or after he hit her and she used her nails to defend herself.
    Nic

  • Emily

    Emily Wisconsin

    This just doesn't seem like a robbery. Why was he(who sounds like a she) in there so long? I think that the suspect was a she, and either knew someone in that store or at the very least had dealt with someone in that store. Revenge seems likely to me. Maybe the story with the delivery was just to get into the store and to see if whomever the revenge was aimed toward, was actually working that day in the store. Then when the victim called 911, the suspect panicked and killed them all. I'm with Captain on this one. Cheers and Happy Birthday!

    This just doesn't seem like a robbery. Why was he(who sounds like a she) in there so long? I think that the suspect was a she, and either knew someone in that store or at the very least had dealt with someone in that store. Revenge seems likely to me. Maybe the story with the delivery was just to get into the store and to see if whomever the revenge was aimed toward, was actually working that day in the store. Then when the victim called 911, the suspect panicked and killed them all. I'm with Captain on this one. Cheers and Happy Birthday!

  • Neverj

    Neverj UGA

    Yeah the Capt heard hooves and skipped past horses and zebras and went straight to unicorns! This isn't a witness who saw the guy from across the street. You're throwing out any sexual part of the crime if you're saying it's a woman. Execution style murder is overwhelmingly not a female crime. And btw, the one dread in the front and manicured nails in no way points to either sex. The majority of black guys I've met have had "manicured" looking nails, tho I think they just take good care of them as opposed to going to a salon. Great choice of case this week tho. Happy Birthday!

    Yeah the Capt heard hooves and skipped past horses and zebras and went straight to unicorns! This isn't a witness who saw the guy from across the street. You're throwing out any sexual part of the crime if you're saying it's a woman. Execution style murder is overwhelmingly not a female crime. And btw, the one dread in the front and manicured nails in no way points to either sex. The majority of black guys I've met have had "manicured" looking nails, tho I think they just take good care of them as opposed to going to a salon. Great choice of case this week tho. Happy Birthday!

  • B

    B

    Sorry, Nic. I hadn’t finished the episode yet, so I hadn’t heard the theories about male clothes and whatnot at the end. Shouldn’t have jumped the gun! Thanks for responding.

    Sorry, Nic. I hadn’t finished the episode yet, so I hadn’t heard the theories about male clothes and whatnot at the end. Shouldn’t have jumped the gun! Thanks for responding.

  • Angela

    Angela British Columbia

    The 911 call sounds just like a woman. I concur with others that state the 3D picture appears to be a woman. Haven't listened to Stitcher, still listening through Apple...so no comments. Happy Birthday Captain.

    The 911 call sounds just like a woman. I concur with others that state the 3D picture appears to be a woman.
    Haven't listened to Stitcher, still listening through Apple...so no comments. Happy Birthday Captain.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous

    From the sketch, the suspect looks female. She (if it is indeed a she) also looks to be a larger-sized woman. Maybe it was a 'Superbike' type of murder where she felt like she had been slighted and wanted revenege, the sort of killing that would make sense only to a deranged person. As for the suspect looking androgynous, as a part of the GLBTQ community myself, this could have certainly been the case. I have several friends that are often being misgendered because their clothing or looks. I have a good friend that, even before he began to transition, was always being called 'sir' and 'him' and 'he' rather than the 'she' that he was biologically was. (By before beginning to transition, I mean he had not yet started taking testosterone and actively presenting as male.) If he had committed the crime (he didn't!), the witness would have been very likely, especially because of the tense situtation, to have said the shooter was a 17-year-old male despite being a 30-year-old female. I'm not saying the suspect is part of the GLBTQ community; I'm just saying it's harder to tell than most people realize if someone who doesn't look like what a 'typical' man or woman looks like. Or acts like. I thought a lot of about that during the Aliza Sherman case with so many people saying 'The killer was female because she runs like a girl!" A lot of men 'run like a girl' and a lot of women don't because most often when they say that, it's because the person doesn't run with any form, like keeping their elbows in. I don't think anyone here has mentioned it but I've seen people saying the shooter was female because of the manicured fingernails. While that's something to consider, I've known quite a few men with manicured fingernails, some of which were gay and others straight. And my own fingernails are a mess. Anyway, I just wanted to add my own perspective because as someone who sees gender differently, I thought it might be of interest to the discussion. And have a happy birthday, Captain! Cheers! Thank you, both of you, Nic and the Captain, for all the hard work you do. I love your show and look forward to it every week. Peace, Zana

    From the sketch, the suspect looks female. She (if it is indeed a she) also looks to be a larger-sized woman. Maybe it was a 'Superbike' type of murder where she felt like she had been slighted and wanted revenege, the sort of killing that would make sense only to a deranged person.

    As for the suspect looking androgynous, as a part of the GLBTQ community myself, this could have certainly been the case. I have several friends that are often being misgendered because their clothing or looks. I have a good friend that, even before he began to transition, was always being called 'sir' and 'him' and 'he' rather than the 'she' that he was biologically was. (By before beginning to transition, I mean he had not yet started taking testosterone and actively presenting as male.) If he had committed the crime (he didn't!), the witness would have been very likely, especially because of the tense situtation, to have said the shooter was a 17-year-old male despite being a 30-year-old female.

    I'm not saying the suspect is part of the GLBTQ community; I'm just saying it's harder to tell than most people realize if someone who doesn't look like what a 'typical' man or woman looks like. Or acts like. I thought a lot of about that during the Aliza Sherman case with so many people saying 'The killer was female because she runs like a girl!" A lot of men 'run like a girl' and a lot of women don't because most often when they say that, it's because the person doesn't run with any form, like keeping their elbows in.

    I don't think anyone here has mentioned it but I've seen people saying the shooter was female because of the manicured fingernails. While that's something to consider, I've known quite a few men with manicured fingernails, some of which were gay and others straight. And my own fingernails are a mess.

    Anyway, I just wanted to add my own perspective because as someone who sees gender differently, I thought it might be of interest to the discussion.

    And have a happy birthday, Captain! Cheers!

    Thank you, both of you, Nic and the Captain, for all the hard work you do. I love your show and look forward to it every week.

    Peace,
    Zana

  • Joel

    Joel Valley springs CA

    Are we sure the survivor wasn’t apart of it? Why would she shoot them all in the head but her? It doesn’t even sound like it was that bad of a wound. If she moved why wouldn’t they take another shot to make sure?

    Are we sure the survivor wasn’t apart of it? Why would she shoot them all in the head but her? It doesn’t even sound like it was that bad of a wound. If she moved why wouldn’t they take another shot to make sure?

  • Janelle

    Janelle FL

    At first I really was not thinking that it was a woman but I think The Captain makes some great points! I have had several woman friends who I would consider Tom boys. They don't like getting dressed up and are completely comfortable going out in a baggy t-shirt, pants and sneakers. Now if this woman was over weight and wearing loose, maybe gender neutral clothing, I could see possibly the eye witness thinking it was a male. Also, I know braids can be a common hair style among both men and women but didn't they say the suspect had beads in their hair? That seems more like a female thing to me. Thanks for another great podcast guys!

    At first I really was not thinking that it was a woman but I think The Captain makes some great points! I have had several woman friends who I would consider Tom boys. They don't like getting dressed up and are completely comfortable going out in a baggy t-shirt, pants and sneakers. Now if this woman was over weight and wearing loose, maybe gender neutral clothing, I could see possibly the eye witness thinking it was a male. Also, I know braids can be a common hair style among both men and women but didn't they say the suspect had beads in their hair? That seems more like a female thing to me. Thanks for another great podcast guys!

  • Debbie

    Debbie South Dakota

    I am confused, if the killer was in the store for 40 minutes, were not other customers coming in during that time? Or did he have them lock the door?

    I am confused, if the killer was in the store for 40 minutes, were not other customers coming in during that time?
    Or did he have them lock the door?

  • Sue

    Sue Pennsylvania

    I think the sketch looks like a women. Still no idea of motive for murder. Happy Birthday Captain! Cheers!

    I think the sketch looks like a women. Still no idea of motive for murder.

    Happy Birthday Captain!
    Cheers!

  • Luke

    Luke Australia

    I know when I worked retail we would store the money from Friday/Saturday/Sunday in the safe and deposit it all Monday morning because the bank in our area wasn’t operating on the weekend. Is it possible that this store did this so the suspect believed they could enter after the store was opened on Saturday and get the Friday takings? Great episodes guys. Cheers mates!

    I know when I worked retail we would store the money from Friday/Saturday/Sunday in the safe and deposit it all Monday morning because the bank in our area wasn’t operating on the weekend. Is it possible that this store did this so the suspect believed they could enter after the store was opened on Saturday and get the Friday takings?

    Great episodes guys. Cheers mates!

  • Jennifer

    Jennifer Aurora Illinois

    Connie had an overnight job stocking shelves at the Super Target in the same shopping center. Did she work that Friday night and have her mani/pedi scheduled before going to Lane Bryant? If she did, is it possible this could account for DNA under her nails? Also, there are suburbs in close proximity to Tinley with a much higher demographic of African Americans than Tinley Park itself. Joliet is only about twenty minutes away and at the time the African American population was approximately 22,000. So I don’t agree with you about the murderer not being local.

    Connie had an overnight job stocking shelves at the Super Target in the same shopping center. Did she work that Friday night and have her mani/pedi scheduled before going to Lane Bryant? If she did, is it possible this could account for DNA under her nails? Also, there are suburbs in close proximity to Tinley with a much higher demographic of African Americans than Tinley Park itself. Joliet is only about twenty minutes away and at the time the African American population was approximately 22,000. So I don’t agree with you about the murderer not being local.

  • Andrea

    Andrea Minneapolis

    As a queer female, I am very strongly leaning towards a female or female-bodied human (trans male?) both the audio as well as sketch give me that feeling. Especially that audio!

    As a queer female, I am very strongly leaning towards a female or female-bodied human (trans male?) both the audio as well as sketch give me that feeling. Especially that audio!

  • Neener

    Neener Vermont

    It’s 2018. We actively recognize that gender isn’t always binary. There’s always been people who don’t fit the one or the other model. We’re just more conscious of those nuances now, and while the primary focus should always be making sure the rights of human beings to be safe in who they are, it’s reasonable to think that in true crime situations, gender is more complex than “man” or “woman”, and we need to be open to that and be willing and open to explore possibilities beyond dna and/or gender stereotypes. 1.7% of humans are considered “hermaphroditic” That’s a huge number and deserves an enormously greater amount of social consideration than we currently offer.

    It’s 2018. We actively recognize that gender isn’t always binary. There’s always been people who don’t fit the one or the other model. We’re just more conscious of those nuances now, and while the primary focus should always be making sure the rights of human beings to be safe in who they are, it’s reasonable to think that in true crime situations, gender is more complex than “man” or “woman”, and we need to be open to that and be willing and open to explore possibilities beyond dna and/or gender stereotypes.
    1.7% of humans are considered “hermaphroditic” That’s a huge number and deserves an enormously greater amount of social consideration than we currently offer.

  • James

    James Dayton

    When I first looked at the photo I immediately thought woman. The witness says it's a man though so I would give a ton of credit to that. As far as the voice being higher register, I believe it sounds like an excited/agitated man speaking in the background. Here's how I think it went down. His idea is that he's going to use the "delivery" to get the manager toward the back, close to an office and have her get into a safe to give him the previous nights cash deposit. He could do this with customers in the store and it would look like she was just getting a delivery, walking to the back without use of force, where he could then rob her. Then walk out like nothing happen (or go out the back door). None of this goes the way its supposed too. Instead she calls the other Lane Bryant and tells them a delivery man is here. She doesn't go to the back, because she's making calls, meanwhile people are walking in and he's standing there, now there are witnesses. Instead of abandoning the situation, he takes her hostage, along with the people now in the store and tries to get her to give up the previous days deposit. The manager is telling him that she doesn't have any deposit and he doesn't believe it. This is probably the "Yo, I'm tired of yelling..." He finds the woman on the phone then shoots them to leave no witnesses. He thought the cops would be further away. He got really lucky. Also, he could've cased the place out and known the parking lot cameras were not an obstacle. He didn't leave a lot of evidence. It's a higher end retailer in a suburban area next to a highway with an interchange 2 miles away. The fact that were still looking for him 10 years later makes me think he thought about all these things beforehand.

    When I first looked at the photo I immediately thought woman. The witness says it's a man though so I would give a ton of credit to that. As far as the voice being higher register, I believe it sounds like an excited/agitated man speaking in the background.

    Here's how I think it went down. His idea is that he's going to use the "delivery" to get the manager toward the back, close to an office and have her get into a safe to give him the previous nights cash deposit. He could do this with customers in the store and it would look like she was just getting a delivery, walking to the back without use of force, where he could then rob her. Then walk out like nothing happen (or go out the back door). None of this goes the way its supposed too. Instead she calls the other Lane Bryant and tells them a delivery man is here. She doesn't go to the back, because she's making calls, meanwhile people are walking in and he's standing there, now there are witnesses. Instead of abandoning the situation, he takes her hostage, along with the people now in the store and tries to get her to give up the previous days deposit. The manager is telling him that she doesn't have any deposit and he doesn't believe it. This is probably the "Yo, I'm tired of yelling..." He finds the woman on the phone then shoots them to leave no witnesses. He thought the cops would be further away. He got really lucky.

    Also, he could've cased the place out and known the parking lot cameras were not an obstacle. He didn't leave a lot of evidence. It's a higher end retailer in a suburban area next to a highway with an interchange 2 miles away. The fact that were still looking for him 10 years later makes me think he thought about all these things beforehand.

  • Derek

    Derek Philadelphia

    I think it’s a woman.

    I think it’s a woman.

  • Locallady

    Locallady Parts Unknown

    I wonder if this individual decided to get high before heading into the store. If they needed some extra courage, cocoaine/some type of speed could give them the extra UMPH needed to go through with the robbery, and would also easily lead to the panic and escalation we see when the killing starts.

    I wonder if this individual decided to get high before heading into the store. If they needed some extra courage, cocoaine/some type of speed could give them the extra UMPH needed to go through with the robbery, and would also easily lead to the panic and escalation we see when the killing starts.

  • Ashley

    Ashley

    As far as the gender of the offender goes, and I'm not meaning any offense, but sometimes gender can be confused when let's say a female is attracted to other females. Sometimes those individuals dress more like a male like the "butch" of the relationship and it's hard to tell a specific gender. I'm sure we've all ran into those scenarios before. Maybe that's why the eye witness thought it was a man.

    As far as the gender of the offender goes, and I'm not meaning any offense, but sometimes gender can be confused when let's say a female is attracted to other females. Sometimes those individuals dress more like a male like the "butch" of the relationship and it's hard to tell a specific gender. I'm sure we've all ran into those scenarios before. Maybe that's why the eye witness thought it was a man.

  • RB

    RB Cleveland

    I definitely believe it was a woman. Do we know if the suspect was for sure in either the SUV or sedan? If not, then they very easily could've ran into a nearby store with hopes that they'd be unrecognizable. Perhaps "she" planned it out so that the gender wouldn't be easily recognizable during the robbery. With that said, they may have discarded the clothes and looked like a non-suspect-able woman shopping that morning... I also don't think it was a robbery... It could've been "vengeance" for something. Maybe it was like a "pretty woman" scenario and she had been offended, or felt bullied by a salesperson earlier in the week at that store? When someone breaks, they can really break. Just food for thought... Crazier things have happened.

    I definitely believe it was a woman. Do we know if the suspect was for sure in either the SUV or sedan? If not, then they very easily could've ran into a nearby store with hopes that they'd be unrecognizable. Perhaps "she" planned it out so that the gender wouldn't be easily recognizable during the robbery. With that said, they may have discarded the clothes and looked like a non-suspect-able woman shopping that morning... I also don't think it was a robbery... It could've been "vengeance" for something. Maybe it was like a "pretty woman" scenario and she had been offended, or felt bullied by a salesperson earlier in the week at that store? When someone breaks, they can really break. Just food for thought... Crazier things have happened.

  • Timesha

    Timesha

    I think I have to agree with the captain. The suspect is a woman. Looking at the 3D sketch, I'm positive it's a woman. Also I don't believe this was a robbery gone wrong. This person had an agenda. Her plan was derailed by the 911 call and I believe that's why everyone was shot. The suspect didn't want to leave with unfinished business.

    I think I have to agree with the captain. The suspect is a woman. Looking at the 3D sketch, I'm positive it's a woman. Also I don't believe this was a robbery gone wrong. This person had an agenda. Her plan was derailed by the 911 call and I believe that's why everyone was shot. The suspect didn't want to leave with unfinished business.

  • Jordan

    Jordan Texas

    If Rhoda called another Lane Bryant store regarding the supposed delivery, perhaps the words she was using to describe the situation would allude to the suspect being a man. If the PD got in contact with the other store associate, they may have been able to learn more about the suspect through that conversation with Rhoda. If the conversation went something like this, for example, “Were you guys supposed to receive a delivery this morning. We have a man here trying to make a delivery, but we don’t have anything scheduled…” This is further evidence that the suspect is a man.

    If Rhoda called another Lane Bryant store regarding the supposed delivery, perhaps the words she was using to describe the situation would allude to the suspect being a man. If the PD got in contact with the other store associate, they may have been able to learn more about the suspect through that conversation with Rhoda. If the conversation went something like this, for example, “Were you guys supposed to receive a delivery this morning. We have a man here trying to make a delivery, but we don’t have anything scheduled…” This is further evidence that the suspect is a man.

  • Kristy

    Kristy Parts unknown

    I think it's a woman. I never agree with the captain but I think he's right on this one.

    I think it's a woman. I never agree with the captain but I think he's right on this one.

  • Kat

    Kat Beaumont tx

    That looks like a woman

    That looks like a woman

  • Kat

    Kat Beaumont tx

    That is a female hair style as a hair stylist that’s a female hair style

    That is a female hair style as a hair stylist that’s a female hair style

  • Ginny

    Ginny Florida

    I am going to be the jerk that is going to say I hope the one survivor was fully investigated and cleared. The question about her messing up the gender of the person because of the tense and stressful situation doesn't hold for me because she gives a very detailed account of what happens before hand. She is able to tell that the person came in, introduced himself, looked around for a camera, was standing with them while her manager called another store all before the assault happens. This perp didn't walk in, throw bags over their heads and drag them to the back. There was a lot of face time and interaction. The whole investigation is based solely on her account. Sadly, these days, I don't think you can trust what a person says -just because. Everything should be verified. It does seem a bit strange that the one survivor is the other person that worked at the store. Maybe the robbery wasn't to get money out of the store, but to cover up money/goods that had already been taken from the store (lululemon). Maybe Rhonda was the target and it was done early to minimize other potential victims. The other ladies were at the very wrong place at the very wrong time. Very tragic and sad. The loss of life is always sad but when it is over "stuff" it makes it even more senseless. Great job again guys. You always do great work. Happy Birthday Captain

    I am going to be the jerk that is going to say I hope the one survivor was fully investigated and cleared. The question about her messing up the gender of the person because of the tense and stressful situation doesn't hold for me because she gives a very detailed account of what happens before hand. She is able to tell that the person came in, introduced himself, looked around for a camera, was standing with them while her manager called another store all before the assault happens. This perp didn't walk in, throw bags over their heads and drag them to the back. There was a lot of face time and interaction. The whole investigation is based solely on her account. Sadly, these days, I don't think you can trust what a person says -just because. Everything should be verified. It does seem a bit strange that the one survivor is the other person that worked at the store. Maybe the robbery wasn't to get money out of the store, but to cover up money/goods that had already been taken from the store (lululemon). Maybe Rhonda was the target and it was done early to minimize other potential victims. The other ladies were at the very wrong place at the very wrong time. Very tragic and sad. The loss of life is always sad but when it is over "stuff" it makes it even more senseless.

    Great job again guys. You always do great work. Happy Birthday Captain

  • Kari

    Kari Yucaipa ca

    I agree with the captain If that’s the suspects voice on the 911 call it so sounds like a woman’s voice.

    I agree with the captain If that’s the suspects voice on the 911 call it so sounds like a woman’s voice.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous

    I get they want to keep the survivor private but, I'm hesitate with some things. How is there not more information based on the survivor? Are we sure she wasn't part of this? Do we know if there is a connection between her and the manager? Also, where are those papers that the suspect had in his hands? They have to be somewhere?

    I get they want to keep the survivor private but, I'm hesitate with some things. How is there not more information based on the survivor? Are we sure she wasn't part of this? Do we know if there is a connection between her and the manager? Also, where are those papers that the suspect had in his hands? They have to be somewhere?

  • Christy

    Christy Arizona

    That composite on the right could be a woman. The high cheek bones, jaw line and ears close to the head. 😉

    That composite on the right could be a woman. The high cheek bones, jaw line and ears close to the head. 😉

  • Ausin

    Ausin UT

    What if it’s a male but a younger male? Like a teenager and possibly this was some sort of gang initiation and he had to kill people to get into the gang and chose the location because like you said it’s a soft target and just make it look like a robbery gone bad and get a few bucks in the process. Just a thought I had after listening to the police call a few times. The audio makes the voice sound a little high pitch but not to the range I would think a female would be in.

    What if it’s a male but a younger male? Like a teenager and possibly this was some sort of gang initiation and he had to kill people to get into the gang and chose the location because like you said it’s a soft target and just make it look like a robbery gone bad and get a few bucks in the process. Just a thought I had after listening to the police call a few times. The audio makes the voice sound a little high pitch but not to the range I would think a female would be in.

  • Aspen

    Aspen New Hampshire

    I did get a strong feeling that this is a masculine looking female or non binary individual, something of the sort. It’s totally possible that the witness AND everyone else were unaware of this. I hope the police thoroughly followed up on that possibility.

    I did get a strong feeling that this is a masculine looking female or non binary individual, something of the sort. It’s totally possible that the witness AND everyone else were unaware of this. I hope the police thoroughly followed up on that possibility.

  • Ashley

    Ashley Ohio

    Did anyone check the witness for gunshot residue.... feels very "Quick Change". Everything seems to hinge on her account. How does a suspect just vanish in minutes... seems odd. Love this show! Nic you are always amazing! Happy Birthday Captain-- hope it's filled with cupcakes and scotch. Cheers

    Did anyone check the witness for gunshot residue.... feels very "Quick Change". Everything seems to hinge on her account.
    How does a suspect just vanish in minutes... seems odd.
    Love this show!
    Nic you are always amazing!
    Happy Birthday Captain-- hope it's filled with cupcakes and scotch.
    Cheers

  • Linda

    Linda Denver

    I think it was a woman. A man wouldn't be that familiar with Lane Bryant, much less consider it a target for a robbery. But, a tall, large woman would because it would be a place where she would most likely shop, or even work. Also, the image of the suspect looks feminine to me. I also agree with those who say the suspect had an agenda other than robbery. I lived in Chicago at the time, and followed the story closely. It always perplexed me that a suspect was never found considering the quick police response, a surviving witness, and items left behind by the "robber." Happy birthday, Captain!

    I think it was a woman. A man wouldn't be that familiar with Lane Bryant, much less consider it a target for a robbery. But, a tall, large woman would because it would be a place where she would most likely shop, or even work. Also, the image of the suspect looks feminine to me. I also agree with those who say the suspect had an agenda other than robbery. I lived in Chicago at the time, and followed the story closely. It always perplexed me that a suspect was never found considering the quick police response, a surviving witness, and items left behind by the "robber."

    Happy birthday, Captain!

  • Baylee

    Baylee Elkhart, IN

    Hey guys! Obsessed with your show. So... the sketch definitely screams female to me. I called the hotline, listened to the audio, it sounds more male than female though there are a lot of women with voices that lean more to the masculine side. The clip played on your show absolutely sounds female, I thought that from Part One. I was thinking... I understand that the victim fought the attacker and that's where the DNA came from(that I can't find any articles for), but my thought process is - what if the victim has a significant other that is male and they were playing around, having sex, whatever else that may have happened, and that the people in the lab simply saw that some DNA showed up as female and some showed up as male, so they went with that it must've been a male subject? I don't know how the whole process works, but it sounds like a "quicker" way to try to get a subject as opposed to "well, there's also female and we know she's female so let's compare everything." So... the clip sounding like a female that just has a voice in a lower register than others and the sketch that looks like a female who would've had a beaded hairdo as a fashion statement along with the "longer" winter jacket that is a popular choice for females... it all just screams to me that it's most likely a female and there wasn't quite enough work put into this as I've heard and read on other cases where there are people wrongly accused or it's just a cold case with "no leads." Just a thought.

    Hey guys! Obsessed with your show. So... the sketch definitely screams female to me. I called the hotline, listened to the audio, it sounds more male than female though there are a lot of women with voices that lean more to the masculine side. The clip played on your show absolutely sounds female, I thought that from Part One. I was thinking... I understand that the victim fought the attacker and that's where the DNA came from(that I can't find any articles for), but my thought process is - what if the victim has a significant other that is male and they were playing around, having sex, whatever else that may have happened, and that the people in the lab simply saw that some DNA showed up as female and some showed up as male, so they went with that it must've been a male subject? I don't know how the whole process works, but it sounds like a "quicker" way to try to get a subject as opposed to "well, there's also female and we know she's female so let's compare everything." So... the clip sounding like a female that just has a voice in a lower register than others and the sketch that looks like a female who would've had a beaded hairdo as a fashion statement along with the "longer" winter jacket that is a popular choice for females... it all just screams to me that it's most likely a female and there wasn't quite enough work put into this as I've heard and read on other cases where there are people wrongly accused or it's just a cold case with "no leads." Just a thought.

  • Leslie

    Leslie Charlotte, NC

    I worked at Lane Bryant for a couple of years and my big question is where was the other employee? If the manager was not schduled to work there should have been at least two other employees there. One "key holder" (manager/asst manager) and a sales clerk. I worked at three different store and that policy was heavily enforced. Maybe I missed it, but I think they need to find out what happened to the scheduled employees. Happy Bday Captain and cheers back to ya Nic :-)

    I worked at Lane Bryant for a couple of years and my big question is where was the other employee? If the manager was not schduled to work there should have been at least two other employees there. One "key holder" (manager/asst manager) and a sales clerk. I worked at three different store and that policy was heavily enforced. Maybe I missed it, but I think they need to find out what happened to the scheduled employees.
    Happy Bday Captain and cheers back to ya Nic :-)

  • Skoaldude

    Skoaldude

    Mona Nelson. Looks VERY much like the sketch, even has a single braid coming down the side in addition to corn-rows. Convicted of a completely senseless murder in 2010 (Jonathan Foster), where police stated they believed that he was not the first victim. She was described in articles as being a "gruff-sounding woman". Police apparently believed she had killed before. I don't believe that whoever did this will just disappear and not be arrested for some other crime, likely murder, so focusing on people arrested for the murder of strangers seems like a good place to start. I don't believe they have DNA, which is why they can't search CODIS or get hits when people are arrested. If that is indeed the case, then I imagine all reference to a man is solely on the basis of the witness testimony. It would also be interesting if they confirmed the race of the witness, "Martha", to see if there is cross-racial identification issue that may be at play here, making it more likely it could in fact have been a woman mistaken as a man. This is from the Innocence Project on cross-racial identification. "In 66 of the 216 wrongful convictions overturned by DNA testing, cross-racial eyewitness identification was used as evidence to convict an innocent defendant. Cross-racial identification is when the witness and the defendant being identified are of different racial backgrounds. Three decades of social science research has shown that cross-racial bias exists in identification. "

    Mona Nelson. Looks VERY much like the sketch, even has a single braid coming down the side in addition to corn-rows. Convicted of a completely senseless murder in 2010 (Jonathan Foster), where police stated they believed that he was not the first victim. She was described in articles as being a "gruff-sounding woman". Police apparently believed she had killed before.

    I don't believe that whoever did this will just disappear and not be arrested for some other crime, likely murder, so focusing on people arrested for the murder of strangers seems like a good place to start.

    I don't believe they have DNA, which is why they can't search CODIS or get hits when people are arrested. If that is indeed the case, then I imagine all reference to a man is solely on the basis of the witness testimony. It would also be interesting if they confirmed the race of the witness, "Martha", to see if there is cross-racial identification issue that may be at play here, making it more likely it could in fact have been a woman mistaken as a man.

    This is from the Innocence Project on cross-racial identification.
    "In 66 of the 216 wrongful convictions overturned by DNA testing, cross-racial eyewitness identification was used as evidence to convict an innocent defendant. Cross-racial identification is when the witness and the defendant being identified are of different racial backgrounds. Three decades of social science research has shown that cross-racial bias exists in identification. "

  • Barbara B.

    Barbara B.

    Okay so I listened to the episodes last night and I have a question. I either missed this or it wasn't addressed but I would appreciate a response :) There is a sketch but I thought someone said that the sole survivor did not get a good look at the shooter. How could she have not seen him/her if they were not wearing a disguise? Hearing the audio, "YO" is the only thing I could make out, I thought the voice to be male. The gut feeling I had was that the assailant was male. Today, looking at the 3D sketch, this kind of looks like a women. I still think male but I am not 100% convinced of that. I hope they solve this case soon! I had binged on the show for a while but had to take a break. Listening to you guys felt like catching up with old friends. Happy Belated bday to the Captain! Keep up the good work guys. Love your show.

    Okay so I listened to the episodes last night and I have a question. I either missed this or it wasn't addressed but I would appreciate a response smile
    There is a sketch but I thought someone said that the sole survivor did not get a good look at the shooter. How could she have not seen him/her if they were not wearing a disguise?

    Hearing the audio, "YO" is the only thing I could make out, I thought the voice to be male. The gut feeling I had was that the assailant was male. Today, looking at the 3D sketch, this kind of looks like a women. I still think male but I am not 100% convinced of that.
    I hope they solve this case soon!

    I had binged on the show for a while but had to take a break. Listening to you guys felt like catching up with old friends. Happy Belated bday to the Captain! Keep up the good work guys. Love your show.

  • Amy

    Amy North tonawanda

    I agree— it was a woman. I thought that from the second I heard the voice in the 911 call.

    I agree— it was a woman. I thought that from the second I heard the voice in the 911 call.

  • Brandy

    Brandy Fall River, MA

    I listen exclusively on Stitcher and didn’t have any problem with these two episodes. Love listening! Thanks guys.

    I listen exclusively on Stitcher and didn’t have any problem with these two episodes. Love listening! Thanks guys.

  • Kelly

    Kelly Parts Unknown

    It could be possible that the reason for the killer remaining in the store so long was that the person that he/she was there to "target" hadn't come in to work yet at the store. 30 plus minutes is a long time to hang around when you're only there to rob the place. Happy Birthday Captain! I hope it was GREAT! Thank you both for all that you do!

    It could be possible that the reason for the killer remaining in the store so long was that the person that he/she was there to "target" hadn't come in to work yet at the store. 30 plus minutes is a long time to hang around when you're only there to rob the place. Happy Birthday Captain! I hope it was GREAT! Thank you both for all that you do!

  • Megan

    Megan

    Happy Birthday, Captain!

    Happy Birthday, Captain!

  • Rhonda

    Rhonda NH

    Looks like a woman. Drives a small SUV and is manicured. Likely with more than a few mental health issues and is there for revenge.

    Looks like a woman. Drives a small SUV and is manicured. Likely with more than a few mental health issues and is there for revenge.

  • Jessica

    Jessica Seattle

    I 100% think this is a (butch) female and possibly had issues with the store or a person who works in the store... It would also make sense as to why this is a cold case if police have been looking for a man. She was mentally unstable and could have wanted to do a hostage situation and make further demands from police for hostage negotiation? Yet when the 911 call was placed, she panicked and killed all the hostages and fled? What I didn't really catch in either parts of the episode is how or why the remaining witness cant shed any light on any kind of motive after spending that much time in the store with the suspect or repeat anything that was said? (vs speculation from the 911 call)

    I 100% think this is a (butch) female and possibly had issues with the store or a person who works in the store... It would also make sense as to why this is a cold case if police have been looking for a man. She was mentally unstable and could have wanted to do a hostage situation and make further demands from police for hostage negotiation? Yet when the 911 call was placed, she panicked and killed all the hostages and fled? What I didn't really catch in either parts of the episode is how or why the remaining witness cant shed any light on any kind of motive after spending that much time in the store with the suspect or repeat anything that was said? (vs speculation from the 911 call)

  • Kevin

    Kevin Real world

    There was an adult who was in the same store with the killer for 40 minutes. They were part of the conversation at the start about the shipment. They got a very good look at the killer, and said he was a man. They didn’t see him far away, or very briefly. They got a GOOD look at him. Suggesting it could be a woman is ridiculous and does not help solve the case.

    There was an adult who was in the same store with the killer for 40 minutes. They were part of the conversation at the start about the shipment. They got a very good look at the killer, and said he was a man. They didn’t see him far away, or very briefly. They got a GOOD look at him. Suggesting it could be a woman is ridiculous and does not help solve the case.

  • Chaos

    Chaos North of you

    Happy Birthday Captain! I'm a relatively new listener but I've been binge listening to make up for lost time. I'm looking forward to Stitcher in May to pick up older episodes. For this one, I hope they looked at nearby gang initiations. I don't think the suspect is a woman, but I think this man is a lot younger than what they have stated. This would explain the pitch. I think he was supposed to go in to rob the place, someplace easy, early in the day so not a lot of customers and the ones that are there are women so (supposedly) won't provide a lot of resistance. Without further guidance, when he heard sirens he started killing, both as a solution to the situation and to impress. He left the building into a waiting vehicle where someone else was driving. Possibly both cars had gang members since they left at the same time.

    Happy Birthday Captain!

    I'm a relatively new listener but I've been binge listening to make up for lost time. I'm looking forward to Stitcher in May to pick up older episodes.

    For this one, I hope they looked at nearby gang initiations. I don't think the suspect is a woman, but I think this man is a lot younger than what they have stated. This would explain the pitch. I think he was supposed to go in to rob the place, someplace easy, early in the day so not a lot of customers and the ones that are there are women so (supposedly) won't provide a lot of resistance.

    Without further guidance, when he heard sirens he started killing, both as a solution to the situation and to impress. He left the building into a waiting vehicle where someone else was driving. Possibly both cars had gang members since they left at the same time.

  • Nancynny

    Nancynny Pa

    I worked at Lane Bryant during this time. At my store safes had keys not codes and yes the deposit should be done at night if you had a night deposit in the mall like we did If not they do it in the morning but sometimes they aren't done at all. If this was a robbery they could.of gotten the employee who made the deposit, be it morning or night. I think it was personal.

    I worked at Lane Bryant during this time. At my store safes had keys not codes and yes the deposit should be done at night if you had a night deposit in the mall like we did If not they do it in the morning but sometimes they aren't done at all. If this was a robbery they could.of gotten the employee who made the deposit, be it morning or night. I think it was personal.

  • AmandaB

    AmandaB Qld

    Maybe it’s a man who is changing to a woman and has been mistreated in that store?

    Maybe it’s a man who is changing to a woman and has been mistreated in that store?

  • Kristin

    Kristin

    When I first saw the picture I thought, this could be a woman! Trauma does strange things to memories. We have also been conditioned that only men commit violent acts like this! I think that it was a woman! I think that the recording sounds female too! The police have gotten sucked into confirmation bias!

    When I first saw the picture I thought, this could be a woman! Trauma does strange things to memories. We have also been conditioned that only men commit violent acts like this! I think that it was a woman! I think that the recording sounds female too! The police have gotten sucked into confirmation bias!

  • Lynnis

    Lynnis San Diego, CA

    Have to agree with sound quality of Part 2...scratchy, feedback and sounds like it was taped off the radio.

    Have to agree with sound quality of Part 2...scratchy, feedback and sounds like it was taped off the radio.

  • Mel

    Mel

    Don't know about the gender of the offender, but this doesn't sound like a robbery. It sounds like a planned murder, possibly of someone who hadn't arrived yet. An employee, a customer, a delivery person. Why else would you wait? I don't think this person ever intended for anyone to leave that store alive. The witnesses had 40 minutes to get a good look at the offender- but he was worried about cameras? When the police were on their way, he didn't grab the cash and run. He executed 5 people, with the intention of executing 6. He had enough ammunition to execute at least 6 people.

    Don't know about the gender of the offender, but this doesn't sound like a robbery. It sounds like a planned murder, possibly of someone who hadn't arrived yet. An employee, a customer, a delivery person. Why else would you wait? I don't think this person ever intended for anyone to leave that store alive. The witnesses had 40 minutes to get a good look at the offender- but he was worried about cameras? When the police were on their way, he didn't grab the cash and run. He executed 5 people, with the intention of executing 6. He had enough ammunition to execute at least 6 people.

  • Joshua

    Joshua

    I don't think it's a woman. You can claim that the voice in the call sounds feminine but the witness who survived was literally there hearing all of this first hand and still believed it was a man. Not only that but we know there was an altercation where the killer overpowered multiple women attacking them which seems less realistic in the case of a female killer.

    I don't think it's a woman. You can claim that the voice in the call sounds feminine but the witness who survived was literally there hearing all of this first hand and still believed it was a man. Not only that but we know there was an altercation where the killer overpowered multiple women attacking them which seems less realistic in the case of a female killer.

  • Mark

    Mark TX

    Soft target, only women to deal with, few people out and about. My guess, it was just supposed to be a robbery, but we are most likely dealing with a perp with two strikes on him. So, if he is caught, he goes away for the rest of his life. He figures, might as well kill all the witnesses, nothing to lose. Not nearly enough information to catch him after ten years, probably dead anyways.

    Soft target, only women to deal with, few people out and about. My guess, it was just supposed to be a robbery, but we are most likely dealing with a perp with two strikes on him. So, if he is caught, he goes away for the rest of his life. He figures, might as well kill all the witnesses, nothing to lose. Not nearly enough information to catch him after ten years, probably dead anyways.

  • Mitch

    Mitch Cambridge ma.

    That sounds just like a women! I thought the captain was crazy until I heard the tape! And looks like a women!! Great show!

    That sounds just like a women! I thought the captain was crazy until I heard the tape! And looks like a women!! Great show!

  • Tracy

    Tracy Virginia

    Good Episodes of TCG! Found an interview with the Task Force Commander that fills in a lot of info - timeline, details of what happened when, acknowledgement that the phone call was the catalyst for the execution style killings. Anyway, the interview makes me think that the survivor was a very credible witness and that the killer is a man. https://www.nbcchicago.com/on-air/as-seen-on/WEB-TINLEY-ARCHIVE_Chicago-472267583.html?t=2

    Good Episodes of TCG! Found an interview with the Task Force Commander that fills in a lot of info - timeline, details of what happened when, acknowledgement that the phone call was the catalyst for the execution style killings. Anyway, the interview makes me think that the survivor was a very credible witness and that the killer is a man. https://www.nbcchicago.com/on-air/as-seen-on/WEB-TINLEY-ARCHIVE_Chicago-472267583.html?t=2

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Answers....... So we checked in with Tinsley Park PD to see if we could get a definitive answer regarding if they have DNA, if it's "good" DNA and if the DNA tells us the gender of the suspect. The answer we received was.... The suspect is male and we will not comment on evidence in this case. I want to thank the Tinley Park PD for their answer. I know it still leaves some questions but they took the time to respond and that should be respected. I also love reading the very good discussions everyone has posted here in this case. I hope the Tinley Park PD get their suspect soon! Cheers Nic

    Answers.......
    So we checked in with Tinsley Park PD to see if we could get a definitive answer regarding if they have DNA, if it's "good" DNA and if the DNA tells us the gender of the suspect. The answer we received was....
    The suspect is male and we will not comment on evidence in this case.
    I want to thank the Tinley Park PD for their answer. I know it still leaves some questions but they took the time to respond and that should be respected. I also love reading the very good discussions everyone has posted here in this case. I hope the Tinley Park PD get their suspect soon!
    Cheers Nic

  • Reb

    Reb DC

    Another great case – I don’t know if this was completely off my radar, or just lost is the thin mist of my memories but truly appreciate you bringing it to me – regardless of the heartbreak that this murder has never been solved. A few things: 1. You mention the likelihood that the monster was not a local because s/he was African American and the neighborhood was so heavily white. I just note that 2 of the 5 victims appear to be of African American origin. 2. He or she? In 2008 , I was running a field office for a political campaign. I called up my trusted volunteer coordinator over the weekend (thanks for the prompt for me to catch up to her!) and we still can’t agree to this day on whether one of our most dedicated, awesome, trusted volunteers was a man or a woman. This person had a lot of similarities in hair, features, and dress as the person in the sketch. I am obviously not suggesting for a second that this person was the same person as the one in the sketch, I’m just pointing out that the witness could be mistaken about gender – my friend and I spent a lot of time with the volunteer and still come out on opposite sides of the coin as to gender of the remarkably hardworking and generous of spirit person we worked with. 3. For what it’s worth – before I even know the gender was an issue here, when you played the 911 tape – I thought “Damn, that sounds like a woman!” 4. I agree that this was something supposed to be simple that spiraled out of control. It brings to mind the horrible triple homicide at the Colonel Brooks Tavern in Washington, DC. What started off as a simple robbery at gun point went completely sideways when one of the victims recognized one of the gunman and killed everyone to cover it up. There was one guy that was hiding in the upstairs office and heard everything. If you want to read a horrible article that helps illuminate what the survivor of the Lane Bryant shooting might have felt, go here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2004/02/01/tavern-killings-leave-spirit-crushed/79a8f837-4bf6-4196-b3bc-b7f3e8b88cf4/?utm_term=.9b38f5cc6080 5. I, sadly, doubt this crime will ever be solved.

    Another great case – I don’t know if this was completely off my radar, or just lost is the thin mist of my memories but truly appreciate you bringing it to me – regardless of the heartbreak that this murder has never been solved. A few things:
    1. You mention the likelihood that the monster was not a local because s/he was African American and the neighborhood was so heavily white. I just note that 2 of the 5 victims appear to be of African American origin.
    2. He or she? In 2008 , I was running a field office for a political campaign. I called up my trusted volunteer coordinator over the weekend (thanks for the prompt for me to catch up to her!) and we still can’t agree to this day on whether one of our most dedicated, awesome, trusted volunteers was a man or a woman. This person had a lot of similarities in hair, features, and dress as the person in the sketch. I am obviously not suggesting for a second that this person was the same person as the one in the sketch, I’m just pointing out that the witness could be mistaken about gender – my friend and I spent a lot of time with the volunteer and still come out on opposite sides of the coin as to gender of the remarkably hardworking and generous of spirit person we worked with.
    3. For what it’s worth – before I even know the gender was an issue here, when you played the 911 tape – I thought “Damn, that sounds like a woman!”
    4. I agree that this was something supposed to be simple that spiraled out of control. It brings to mind the horrible triple homicide at the Colonel Brooks Tavern in Washington, DC. What started off as a simple robbery at gun point went completely sideways when one of the victims recognized one of the gunman and killed everyone to cover it up.
    There was one guy that was hiding in the upstairs office and heard everything. If you want to read a horrible article that helps illuminate what the survivor of the Lane Bryant shooting might have felt, go here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2004/02/01/tavern-killings-leave-spirit-crushed/79a8f837-4bf6-4196-b3bc-b7f3e8b88cf4/?utm_term=.9b38f5cc6080
    5. I, sadly, doubt this crime will ever be solved.

  • Pat

    Pat North Easton, MA

    My friend brought this up, and from all of our research we can't find anything online about it. And, if they really have "good" DNA (which we can't confirm) this likely isn't connected as the perpetrator would be in the system/CODIS . With those caveats out of the way, William Balfour seems like a plausible suspect to me. He committed the extremely heinous murders of Jennifer Hudson's family, about 25 mintues away and 7 months after the Lane Bryant killings. The sketch is eerily similar, and the voice from his interview in 2016 with ABC is also in-line with what I'd expect after listening to the 911 calls. He is clearly capable of such a horrendous act. So we have sketch, location, voice, and his instability that lines up with the Lane Bryant crime evidence This seems like something they would have checked, I just don't see anything online of it being investigated and dismissed, so I found it interesting to bring up The evidence against him in the Hudson killings seems fairly concrete yet he still denies it, so he likely wouldn't have confessed to Lane Bryant even after being sent to jail for life Mug shot of Balfour at time of Hudson murders http://abcnews.go.com/US/jennifer-hudson-family-murder-trial-guilty-counts/story?id=16312497 Voice sample http://abc7chicago.com/news/killer-of-jennifer-hudsons-family-breaks-silence-/1206661/

    My friend brought this up, and from all of our research we can't find anything online about it. And, if they really have "good" DNA (which we can't confirm) this likely isn't connected as the perpetrator would be in the system/CODIS .

    With those caveats out of the way, William Balfour seems like a plausible suspect to me. He committed the extremely heinous murders of Jennifer Hudson's family, about 25 mintues away and 7 months after the Lane Bryant killings.

    The sketch is eerily similar, and the voice from his interview in 2016 with ABC is also in-line with what I'd expect after listening to the 911 calls. He is clearly capable of such a horrendous act. So we have sketch, location, voice, and his instability that lines up with the Lane Bryant crime evidence

    This seems like something they would have checked, I just don't see anything online of it being investigated and dismissed, so I found it interesting to bring up

    The evidence against him in the Hudson killings seems fairly concrete yet he still denies it, so he likely wouldn't have confessed to Lane Bryant even after being sent to jail for life

    Mug shot of Balfour at time of Hudson murders http://abcnews.go.com/US/jennifer-hudson-family-murder-trial-guilty-counts/story?id=16312497

    Voice sample http://abc7chicago.com/news/killer-of-jennifer-hudsons-family-breaks-silence-/1206661/

  • Chris

    Chris Minneapolis

    Great show as always guys! A couple of thoughts. On the “inside job” theory, we know that the manager, whose name I can’t remember right now, wasn’t scheduled to work that day. But do we know there was supposed to be another manager there? If the police are going by a schedule at the workplace, she might not have been scheduled, but perhaps the store suddenly became short a manager? Fired, prolonged medical issue, whatever. So, maybe she wasn’t “scheduled,” but she was going in because there was no other manager coverage. Also, borrowing on my 25 years in casual dining restaurants (glad I got out!), there were occasions where myself, or another manager, was sent to work shifts at another location on a one time, or at least a very short term, basis. In these instances, there was never a change in the safe convo like there would have been if a manager was fired. This fill in would also have an idea of the stores sales numbers, and if there was a night drop or not. Also could explain the delivery invoice the perp had. Finally, with the audio, I don’t hear a woman as the suspect. As Nic said, the stress of the situation could cause a voice to go higher in pitch. Also, not all men have a deep voice. While I wouldn’t call my voice feminine, it certainly isn’t deep. And if there was a tape of my yelling at the tv during a NY Jets game, I’m sure it be at a higher pitch. Damn, didn’t mean to write a novel. Sorry!

    Great show as always guys!

    A couple of thoughts. On the “inside job” theory, we know that the manager, whose name I can’t remember right now, wasn’t scheduled to work that day. But do we know there was supposed to be another manager there? If the police are going by a schedule at the workplace, she might not have been scheduled, but perhaps the store suddenly became short a manager? Fired, prolonged medical issue, whatever. So, maybe she wasn’t “scheduled,” but she was going in because there was no other manager coverage.
    Also, borrowing on my 25 years in casual dining restaurants (glad I got out!), there were occasions where myself, or another manager, was sent to work shifts at another location on a one time, or at least a very short term, basis. In these instances, there was never a change in the safe convo like there would have been if a manager was fired. This fill in would also have an idea of the stores sales numbers, and if there was a night drop or not. Also could explain the delivery invoice the perp had.

    Finally, with the audio, I don’t hear a woman as the suspect. As Nic said, the stress of the situation could cause a voice to go higher in pitch. Also, not all men have a deep voice. While I wouldn’t call my voice feminine, it certainly isn’t deep. And if there was a tape of my yelling at the tv during a NY Jets game, I’m sure it be at a higher pitch.

    Damn, didn’t mean to write a novel. Sorry!

  • Mobetta64

    Mobetta64 Tulsa Ok

    As a retired Detective I think this is a gang crime gone wrong. I agree 30 minutes is a long dwell time. But If the manager was sorting out the ruse, this would take time. So the robbery took up the remainderof the time. Having heard the suggested audio, I believe he was looking for previous days take. “Yo I’m tired of telling you..... hero ( inaudible) I think he was telling the manager not to be a hero about the money. Asking for access to the safe. If he had all the occupants bound and secured he could have remained all day. Two black cars were addl support. Look outs or extras if needed. G unit clothes screams gang to me. Black cars, clothes, knit caps, leads me to think Gangster Disciples. A Chicago based gang. Also if this was an older (male) then he would be an O-G, (Older Gangster). If this was an O-G, this would lend credibility that this was not their first robbery. Keep in mind these criminal gangs allowed females to operate within its ranks. The murders; I think the story related that garments were placed over some or all of the victims, so they could not observe the shooter/suspect ? Then why kill them? He/she panicked at the 911 call. He shot all but 1 execution back of the head. The 911 caller was in the forehead? Revenge and anger he/she made it punitive to her alone. Where was the other scheduled employee? Why did she not come in THAT particular day?? Joliet is just down the highway. A prison is located there. How about thier gang composition of the community? How about DNA against penal populations? How about facial recognition against state, local and county lock up booking photos? Did the task force go back to the preceeding years for matching M.O. crimes. These cars needed fuel. Was there a search of gas station security cameras for potential matches? Extend the search radius twenty to thirty miles. Someone knows something. This suspect might have bragged to someone. Great podcast gentleman!!! Thanks for bringing these stories to life.

    As a retired Detective I think this is a gang crime gone wrong. I agree 30 minutes is a long dwell time. But If the manager was sorting out the ruse, this would take time. So the robbery took up the remainderof the time.

    Having heard the suggested audio, I believe he was looking for previous days take. “Yo I’m tired of telling you..... hero ( inaudible) I think he was telling the manager not to be a hero about the money. Asking for access to the safe. If he had all the occupants bound and secured he could have remained all day.

    Two black cars were addl support. Look outs or extras if needed. G unit clothes screams gang to me. Black cars, clothes, knit caps, leads me to think Gangster Disciples. A Chicago based gang. Also if this was an older (male) then he would be an O-G, (Older Gangster). If this was an O-G, this would lend credibility that this was not their first robbery. Keep in mind these criminal gangs allowed females to operate within its ranks.

    The murders; I think the story related that garments were placed over some or all of the victims, so they could not observe the shooter/suspect ? Then why kill them? He/she panicked at the 911 call. He shot all but 1 execution back of the head. The 911 caller was in the forehead? Revenge and anger he/she made it punitive to her alone.

    Where was the other scheduled employee? Why did she not come in THAT particular day??

    Joliet is just down the highway. A prison is located there. How about thier gang composition of the community? How about DNA against penal populations? How about facial recognition against state, local and county lock up booking photos? Did the task force go back to the preceeding years for matching M.O. crimes. These cars needed fuel. Was there a search of gas station security cameras for potential matches? Extend the search radius twenty to thirty miles.

    Someone knows something. This suspect might have bragged to someone.

    Great podcast gentleman!!! Thanks for bringing these stories to life.

  • Marcus

    Marcus Sweden

    Could it be a crime off passion considering one off the victims was shoot in the front of the head and all the rest in the back? Maybe the assailent had relations with that woman and all the other "just happened to bee there"? Thanks for a great show.

    Could it be a crime off passion considering one off the victims was shoot in the front of the head and all the rest in the back? Maybe the assailent had relations with that woman and all the other "just happened to bee there"? Thanks for a great show.

  • Sean salter

    Sean salter Kalamazoo

    Wtf with the audio fellas was so disappointed when it was two weeks in a row also never been to the website you guys are way younger than I ever thought I pictured Nic as an old man

    Wtf with the audio fellas was so disappointed when it was two weeks in a row also never been to the website you guys are way younger than I ever thought I pictured Nic as an old man

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Sean I assume you're listening on stitcher? Stitcher has been having some issues. We have changed nothing and the audio has been great as always on most platforms. Stitcher is fixing the problem and it may already be fixed. Cheers Nic

    Sean I assume you're listening on stitcher? Stitcher has been having some issues. We have changed nothing and the audio has been great as always on most platforms. Stitcher is fixing the problem and it may already be fixed.
    Cheers Nic

  • Baylee

    Baylee Denver

    I have a gut feeling this was done by a woman. The photograph even looks feminine.

    I have a gut feeling this was done by a woman. The photograph even looks feminine.

  • Wendy

    Wendy Texas

    I'm wondering....since there is a witness that is still alive wouldn't she have heard what the scum was saying while the manager was on the phone with 911? If so, are they with holding that on purpose so as to not jeopardize the investigation? But if that's the case then why release the audio in the first place? So many questions!! So hopeful that they find animal and the families get justice!

    I'm wondering....since there is a witness that is still alive wouldn't she have heard what the scum was saying while the manager was on the phone with 911? If so, are they with holding that on purpose so as to not jeopardize the investigation? But if that's the case then why release the audio in the first place? So many questions!! So hopeful that they find animal and the families get justice!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    At Wendy- the simple answer is yes. They have that and they are holding that. Probably not verbatim as the victim was very traumatized. The police are holding way too much stuff back on this case. Let's for a second go on the thought that they have good DNA.... Okay so all you need is to find the right match, therefor the more info you hold back the less likely you are to finding that match. The more they release the faster the public will turn in this guy for you. That should be the only goal and then the DNA evidence will take care of the rest. Tell us what was said, show us the ball cap and delivery papers and we will get this guy. Nic

    At Wendy- the simple answer is yes. They have that and they are holding that. Probably not verbatim as the victim was very traumatized. The police are holding way too much stuff back on this case. Let's for a second go on the thought that they have good DNA.... Okay so all you need is to find the right match, therefor the more info you hold back the less likely you are to finding that match. The more they release the faster the public will turn in this guy for you. That should be the only goal and then the DNA evidence will take care of the rest. Tell us what was said, show us the ball cap and delivery papers and we will get this guy.
    Nic

  • Jared

    Jared Utica

    Love the podcast!!! Few thoughts from me are that I really do believe it was a woman. I feel a male in trying to pull a robbery like this if they did have a high pitched voice like that would want to make there voice sound deeper and more intimidating. A woman may have been more familiar with Lane Bryant stores, not that specific one, but maybe others in the area where they are from. I keep coming back to the thought that it was someone that was maybe had some sort limited mental capacity. It just seems from the selection of the target and even the choice of time of day not many people are carrying out robberies in the morning, also there was no mention of the person asking the manager to lock the door to keep more people from coming in as the robbery is being carried out, which for me is showing another lapse in judgement. One thing i was thinking as well is what if this suspects day job was an actually delivery person. Knowing that on the job he/she would go in show an invoice and be brought back for pickup or whatever, maybe they thought i could fake an invoice and then in the confusion make off with some cash.

    Love the podcast!!! Few thoughts from me are that I really do believe it was a woman. I feel a male in trying to pull a robbery like this if they did have a high pitched voice like that would want to make there voice sound deeper and more intimidating. A woman may have been more familiar with Lane Bryant stores, not that specific one, but maybe others in the area where they are from. I keep coming back to the thought that it was someone that was maybe had some sort limited mental capacity. It just seems from the selection of the target and even the choice of time of day not many people are carrying out robberies in the morning, also there was no mention of the person asking the manager to lock the door to keep more people from coming in as the robbery is being carried out, which for me is showing another lapse in judgement. One thing i was thinking as well is what if this suspects day job was an actually delivery person. Knowing that on the job he/she would go in show an invoice and be brought back for pickup or whatever, maybe they thought i could fake an invoice and then in the confusion make off with some cash.

  • Kim

    Kim Kansas

    The 911 background voice is male. A male who's adrenaline is starting to climb. The composite is male - possibly on the stocky side. I don't have a definite opinion on motive, only detail questions. Scanning the ceiling isn't that unusual - I often do it, mainly because I wonder if a store's surveillance is even hooked up. However, if someone scans a ceiling and then something happens, you can bet that person doesn't want known, what's about to transpire. As a hindsight issue brought up by the survivor, one can only hope they've scoured her background and do not consider her a person of interest. My questions for the witness might be simple things such as, describe the weapon in detail. Where & how did the suspect carry it? Was the suspect left or right handed - how was it held when during conversation? Point is, if this witness noticed abstract detail in the suspect's behavior, such as the scanning of the ceiling, perhaps other things were noticed, as well. I have yet to really listen to the second part but hey - Nic & The Captain - great case discussion, guys! 🍺 Sometimes, the answers just need some teasing out, not to mention 🍻 a few beers. 😉

    The 911 background voice is male. A male who's adrenaline is starting to climb. The composite is male - possibly on the stocky side.
    I don't have a definite opinion on motive, only detail questions. Scanning the ceiling isn't that unusual - I often do it, mainly because I wonder if a store's surveillance is even hooked up. However, if someone scans a ceiling and then something happens, you can bet that person doesn't want known, what's about to transpire. As a hindsight issue brought up by the survivor, one can only hope they've scoured her background and do not consider her a person of interest.
    My questions for the witness might be simple things such as, describe the weapon in detail. Where & how did the suspect carry it? Was the suspect left or right handed - how was it held when during conversation? Point is, if this witness noticed abstract detail in the suspect's behavior, such as the scanning of the ceiling, perhaps other things were noticed, as well.

    I have yet to really listen to the second part but hey - Nic & The Captain - great case discussion, guys! 🍺 Sometimes, the answers just need some teasing out, not to mention 🍻 a few beers. 😉

  • mktackabery

    mktackabery Durham, NC

    I worked as an Assistant Manager and Manager at Lane Bryant for a while, but I try not to think back on my retail hell days. That being said, some stores actually have the safe underneath the cash registers, not in the back of the stores. And even large stores, like the 22k sq. ft Tinley Park Store, might have a very tiny back room. The chain does not like to keep overstocks or extra stock on hand--pretty much all the stock is on the floor. When deliveries come in, they are not usually large in nature--maybe two to six boxes at time. A store will usually get deliveries during the week, not on the weekends. So being told that a delivery was coming in on a Saturday would be strange. The deposit bag from the night before does have to be counted again by the opening manager--cash and checks--and so do the registers. The rule is that the cash & checks from the day before must be deposited via a teller during the week or via ATM or dropbox on the weekend, but the manager or assistant manager must not go alone to the bank. In a strip mall, the bank was probably not close by. If the second morning person was late, the keyholder who opened the store would have to lock up the bag and wait until there were enough employees in the store, and another keyholder, to leave with one employee to take the bag in to the bank. The bag could not stay in the store unless there were were not enough employees at the store during the entire day for the manager/keyholder to get away with one other employee to drop it. I could see this kind of scenario at that store--the weekends were the days when, if you had young part-timers, you'd have a hard time getting them in at 8 or 9 am to open. I was forbidden by my district manager to go to the ATM dropbox at night on the weekends. This smells of inside job to me, in that someone had to tip off the suspect about where the safe was, and when the bag was likely to be in the store. In 05, I could see there being a decent amount of cash from a Friday night--not thousands and thousands, but maybe 1-2000 might be possible, for that size store; yes, fashion is a credit card business, but that location was fairly new and Joliet was not very far away. I could see people cashing checks on Thursday or Friday and coming out there to buy with cash, especially if there was a good sale. That time of year, the clearance sales were probably pretty good. For the delivery--usually the truck would be at the back of the store and a delivery person would ring a bell. UPS or FedEx would come through the front. LB does ship some of its catalog orders to stores FedEx. So a person could have faked a FedEx delivery fairly well. LB uses large gray FedEx bags for those shipments. You could get one out of a FedEx box and stuff it with old tshirts or something and maybe fake it that way. If a truck driver did park at the back, ring and no one answered, s/he would not bring in an invoice. Invoices are packed in the boxes. He would have a bill of lading from the trucking company. That would be harder to mock up, but you could probably steal a discarded one from a loading dock. If you are coming near Chicago via 80 or 90 you will see a boatload of distribution centers and warehouses. You'd just have to go by one in the early evening or at night and snoop, I guess. I think there are two strong possibilities: one is agreeing with the detective who posted earlier that this was most likely a gang initiation type of hit. A senseless attack on random people would be the perfect initiation. The other possibility, of something personal as against an employee, also seem plausible; a disgruntled employee could have explained that one manager is lazy about the bag when it's her Saturday, or that Laticia or Sherry or Carla all go get coffee in the morning and wait to do the deposit at 4 instead of in the morning like they are supposed to, and on Friday nights they have the most cash--she should get robbed, that dumb beatch. I have heard this kind of talk before. Heck, maybe I said it. While the time spent in the store seems long, 48 mins to an hour is really not that long in such a situation. Say the guy--I believe it's a guy--walks in right behind the keyholder, or a minute after that person unlocks the front door. Say 10-15 minutes waiting for her to call the other store and ask about the delivery. Say he is about to shake her down, with the second employee in the back grabbing a cart and a box of stock to take out on the floor, and two customers walk in. The guy maybe panics, is a little rougher than he meant to be, and one of the customers notices and says something like, "Young man, what are you doing?" Or even, "Can you help me find something?" and then sees the guy has a gun, and screams. Now 20-25 minutes have ticked by and the guy panics. He hustles the two customers and the manager into the back, gets them and the other employee on the floor, puts shirts on their heads or whatever, and is about to go through his scary spiel when he hears two more customers come in. Now 30 minutes have gone by, and he has not gotten to what he needs to do, which is grab the bag. He has to go out to get the other two customers, get nasty and scary, get them on the floor and cloths on their head, or whatever, and by this time one of the women has gotten to her cell phone...Time flies when you are stupid and you have a 9mm. p.s. A Glock and a Smith & Wesson 9mm look almost exactly the same. I've heard a lot of people call a 9mm a Smith and Wesson Glock. It's not accurate, but understandable.

    I worked as an Assistant Manager and Manager at Lane Bryant for a while, but I try not to think back on my retail hell days. That being said, some stores actually have the safe underneath the cash registers, not in the back of the stores. And even large stores, like the 22k sq. ft Tinley Park Store, might have a very tiny back room. The chain does not like to keep overstocks or extra stock on hand--pretty much all the stock is on the floor. When deliveries come in, they are not usually large in nature--maybe two to six boxes at time. A store will usually get deliveries during the week, not on the weekends. So being told that a delivery was coming in on a Saturday would be strange.

    The deposit bag from the night before does have to be counted again by the opening manager--cash and checks--and so do the registers. The rule is that the cash & checks from the day before must be deposited via a teller during the week or via ATM or dropbox on the weekend, but the manager or assistant manager must not go alone to the bank. In a strip mall, the bank was probably not close by. If the second morning person was late, the keyholder who opened the store would have to lock up the bag and wait until there were enough employees in the store, and another keyholder, to leave with one employee to take the bag in to the bank. The bag could not stay in the store unless there were were not enough employees at the store during the entire day for the manager/keyholder to get away with one other employee to drop it. I could see this kind of scenario at that store--the weekends were the days when, if you had young part-timers, you'd have a hard time getting them in at 8 or 9 am to open. I was forbidden by my district manager to go to the ATM dropbox at night on the weekends.

    This smells of inside job to me, in that someone had to tip off the suspect about where the safe was, and when the bag was likely to be in the store. In 05, I could see there being a decent amount of cash from a Friday night--not thousands and thousands, but maybe 1-2000 might be possible, for that size store; yes, fashion is a credit card business, but that location was fairly new and Joliet was not very far away. I could see people cashing checks on Thursday or Friday and coming out there to buy with cash, especially if there was a good sale. That time of year, the clearance sales were probably pretty good.

    For the delivery--usually the truck would be at the back of the store and a delivery person would ring a bell. UPS or FedEx would come through the front. LB does ship some of its catalog orders to stores FedEx. So a person could have faked a FedEx delivery fairly well. LB uses large gray FedEx bags for those shipments. You could get one out of a FedEx box and stuff it with old tshirts or something and maybe fake it that way. If a truck driver did park at the back, ring and no one answered, s/he would not bring in an invoice. Invoices are packed in the boxes. He would have a bill of lading from the trucking company. That would be harder to mock up, but you could probably steal a discarded one from a loading dock. If you are coming near Chicago via 80 or 90 you will see a boatload of distribution centers and warehouses. You'd just have to go by one in the early evening or at night and snoop, I guess.

    I think there are two strong possibilities: one is agreeing with the detective who posted earlier that this was most likely a gang initiation type of hit. A senseless attack on random people would be the perfect initiation.

    The other possibility, of something personal as against an employee, also seem plausible; a disgruntled employee could have explained that one manager is lazy about the bag when it's her Saturday, or that Laticia or Sherry or Carla all go get coffee in the morning and wait to do the deposit at 4 instead of in the morning like they are supposed to, and on Friday nights they have the most cash--she should get robbed, that dumb beatch. I have heard this kind of talk before. Heck, maybe I said it.

    While the time spent in the store seems long, 48 mins to an hour is really not that long in such a situation. Say the guy--I believe it's a guy--walks in right behind the keyholder, or a minute after that person unlocks the front door. Say 10-15 minutes waiting for her to call the other store and ask about the delivery. Say he is about to shake her down, with the second employee in the back grabbing a cart and a box of stock to take out on the floor, and two customers walk in. The guy maybe panics, is a little rougher than he meant to be, and one of the customers notices and says something like, "Young man, what are you doing?" Or even, "Can you help me find something?" and then sees the guy has a gun, and screams. Now 20-25 minutes have ticked by and the guy panics. He hustles the two customers and the manager into the back, gets them and the other employee on the floor, puts shirts on their heads or whatever, and is about to go through his scary spiel when he hears two more customers come in. Now 30 minutes have gone by, and he has not gotten to what he needs to do, which is grab the bag. He has to go out to get the other two customers, get nasty and scary, get them on the floor and cloths on their head, or whatever, and by this time one of the women has gotten to her cell phone...Time flies when you are stupid and you have a 9mm.

    p.s. A Glock and a Smith & Wesson 9mm look almost exactly the same. I've heard a lot of people call a 9mm a Smith and Wesson Glock. It's not accurate, but understandable.

  • Scott

    Scott Grand Rapids, MI

    1st of all, love, love, love your show and your insight and story telling. A lot of comments on this one are great, and others not so much. 1st, to address one of my pet peeves to commenters, if you don’t know what the hell your talking about, stfu. The guy from Ontario spouting about the type of gun, a .40 S&W is a type of cartridge; Ammo. A Glock is a gun manufacturer. So they are not the same thing. One can have a .40 S&W Glock dumb ass. Very common. I know this area well and know some about that day. I was working at Sams Club about a block away the day of the shooting and actually lived only about 3 miles to the east at the time. Of course I don’t have any insider info or anything but I can say that the area is no different than the average affluent suburb and given the time “he” had to commit the crime it always surprised me that he wasn’t caught right away given the area. Such a shocking crime and a very odd day for those living in the area who thought it to be far enough away from the city to have to worry about such things. Keep it up guys, can’t wait for your premium stuff to go up.

    1st of all, love, love, love your show and your insight and story telling. A lot of comments on this one are great, and others not so much. 1st, to address one of my pet peeves to commenters, if you don’t know what the hell your talking about, stfu. The guy from Ontario spouting about the type of gun, a .40 S&W is a type of cartridge; Ammo. A Glock is a gun manufacturer. So they are not the same thing. One can have a .40 S&W Glock dumb ass. Very common.
    I know this area well and know some about that day. I was working at Sams Club about a block away the day of the shooting and actually lived only about 3 miles to the east at the time. Of course I don’t have any insider info or anything but I can say that the area is no different than the average affluent suburb and given the time “he” had to commit the crime it always surprised me that he wasn’t caught right away given the area. Such a shocking crime and a very odd day for those living in the area who thought it to be far enough away from the city to have to worry about such things.
    Keep it up guys, can’t wait for your premium stuff to go up.

  • Stacey G

    Stacey G

    If the perp had no plan on hurting the victims, then why go in without a mask?

    If the perp had no plan on hurting the victims, then why go in without a mask?

  • Kevin

    Kevin Chicago

    Did the store have a time delay safe? That might explain why the perpetrator would stay so long and tie up the victims. Usually funds can't be accessed for 1/2 hour once the code has been entered.

    Did the store have a time delay safe? That might explain why the perpetrator would stay so long and tie up the victims. Usually funds can't be accessed for 1/2 hour once the code has been entered.

  • Tuck

    Tuck

    So just listened to the Lane Bryant shooting. Judging by the sketch of the suspect and the voice on the 911 call. I think the Captain is right. It looks and sounds a lot like a woman. They just caught the Golden State killer by running his DNA through an online genealogy database. If they do have any DNA at all in this case I would have to think it’s worth a shot.

    So just listened to the Lane Bryant shooting. Judging by the sketch of the suspect and the voice on the 911 call. I think the Captain is right. It looks and sounds a lot like a woman. They just caught the Golden State killer by running his DNA through an online genealogy database. If they do have any DNA at all in this case I would have to think it’s worth a shot.

  • S. Wertz

    S. Wertz Abingdon Illinois

    This sounds to me like a theft gone wrong. I think it would be fairly easy to go to one location and take a small inventory of some products sold and write them down, say maybe a dozen items. Go to another location and present a small list of things that “your manager sent you for”. This would explain the paperwork, when the manager wanted to call the manager from the other store the perpetrator panicked and then there was a change of plans. This is just an idea. Great podcast, keep up the great work. It’s pretty obvious that you actually care about the things you discuss.

    This sounds to me like a theft gone wrong. I think it would be fairly easy to go to one location and take a small inventory of some products sold and write them down, say maybe a dozen items. Go to another location and present a small list of things that “your manager sent you for”. This would explain the paperwork, when the manager wanted to call the manager from the other store the perpetrator panicked and then there was a change of plans. This is just an idea. Great podcast, keep up the great work. It’s pretty obvious that you actually care about the things you discuss.

  • JC

    JC Raleigh

    I may have missed it. But how close did the cops look into the survivor "Martha" 1. It sounds like a women. 2. Suspect vanishes 3. Everyone shot point blank in the head, yet this girl dodges like Neo and then plays dead. I do not think it would be hard to kill everyone, graze yourself and then hid the gun in the store. 4. Evidence kind of points to a women, yet the sole witness keeps saying it was a man. Also, with everyone dead, we only have her account of what happened. I'd rake her over the coals, and see what shakes out.

    I may have missed it. But how close did the cops look into the survivor "Martha" 1. It sounds like a women. 2. Suspect vanishes 3. Everyone shot point blank in the head, yet this girl dodges like Neo and then plays dead. I do not think it would be hard to kill everyone, graze yourself and then hid the gun in the store. 4. Evidence kind of points to a women, yet the sole witness keeps saying it was a man. Also, with everyone dead, we only have her account of what happened. I'd rake her over the coals, and see what shakes out.

  • LouLouLeRoux

    LouLouLeRoux Toronto

    @ JC Haha, "dodges like Neo" might be the best comment yet. But I agree - there definitely seems to be more to the story with the sole survivor.

    @ JC
    Haha, "dodges like Neo" might be the best comment yet. But I agree - there definitely seems to be more to the story with the sole survivor.

  • Joel

    Joel South Dakota

    I personally think that this could be a woman. Has the surviving witness ever been looked into as a suspect? I find it a little odd that the shooter wouldn't realize that he only grazed someone. Could the witness have been in on the shooting/robbery, or, could the witness have been the shooter and then shot herself to make her look innocent?

    I personally think that this could be a woman. Has the surviving witness ever been looked into as a suspect? I find it a little odd that the shooter wouldn't realize that he only grazed someone. Could the witness have been in on the shooting/robbery, or, could the witness have been the shooter and then shot herself to make her look innocent?

  • Jasmon

    Jasmon Milwaukee WI

    I honestly believe this crime was committed by a woman. A woman that is very cold hearted & may have possibly been a former employee of the franchise. That is just my personal opinion. Great show btw.

    I honestly believe this crime was committed by a woman. A woman that is very cold hearted & may have possibly been a former employee of the franchise. That is just my personal opinion. Great show btw.

  • Si

    Si Bristol, England

    Genuinely my favourite episode so far. Keep up the great work. Always look for your recommended beers.

    Genuinely my favourite episode so far. Keep up the great work. Always look for your recommended beers.

  • Dupplin Muir

    Dupplin Muir Kent

    I once went to a formal dinner, and a magician went from table to table doing tricks, and although we were looking at this person from a few feet, in bright light, and with no stress, no-one at the table could tell if it was a man or a woman. The problem with the DNA is whether it actually comes from the killer: perhaps she'd just scratched her partner's back that morning. The other thing I'd like to know is how the phone-call was actually made if the person was bound - though perhaps it was explained and I just didn't listen carefully enough!

    I once went to a formal dinner, and a magician went from table to table doing tricks, and although we were looking at this person from a few feet, in bright light, and with no stress, no-one at the table could tell if it was a man or a woman. The problem with the DNA is whether it actually comes from the killer: perhaps she'd just scratched her partner's back that morning.

    The other thing I'd like to know is how the phone-call was actually made if the person was bound - though perhaps it was explained and I just didn't listen carefully enough!

  • Jim

    Jim 29588

    I think that sketch definitely looks like a woman. Don't pay the haters any attention. You guys ROCK!

    I think that sketch definitely looks like a woman.
    Don't pay the haters any attention. You guys ROCK!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    The phone call was placed via Bluetooth. I'm guessing it was an ear piece that was given a voice command to make a call to 911. So hands free - Nic

    The phone call was placed via Bluetooth. I'm guessing it was an ear piece that was given a voice command to make a call to 911. So hands free - Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    There's a new rumor out which I find interesting. Rumor.... They have good DNA and it is definitely a male suspect. The killer used his teeth to tear the pieces of duct tape used to bind the victims. The DNA came from the tape strips. Cheers Nic

    There's a new rumor out which I find interesting. Rumor....
    They have good DNA and it is definitely a male suspect. The killer used his teeth to tear the pieces of duct tape used to bind the victims. The DNA came from the tape strips.
    Cheers Nic

  • Brittany

    Brittany Oak Forest, IL

    Thanks for covering this case! My neighbor was one of the victims and her family needs closure. Sarah was a great person.

    Thanks for covering this case! My neighbor was one of the victims and her family needs closure. Sarah was a great person.

  • Regina

    Regina Texas

    https://goo.gl/images/MmBTxB Have you all seen the mugshot of Mona Nelson. She looks ALOT like the 3D image of the suspect!

    https://goo.gl/images/MmBTxB

    Have you all seen the mugshot of Mona Nelson. She looks ALOT like the 3D image of the suspect!

  • Rich

    Rich Newark, NJ

    Hear are some of my initial thoughts on this case based on listening to the podcast and some research I have done: 1. Male or woman? I would say with certainty that it is a male. While there are certain qualities(beads in the braid, manicured fingernails and the potential voice on the recording) that could be made in the argument for it to be a female, I have no doubts it is a male. First off we have the report that the suspect engaged in several minutes worth of interactions with people trying to figure out locations for delivery and the manager had even gone back and forth between employees with the suspect in order to find an answer for his inquiries. Secondly, whether or not the DNA evidence is of good quality it should be enough to determine at least whether the suspect is male or female. The fact the police are certain it's a male tells me that they have the evidence and proof the back that up. 2. What was the motive for this? Several things come to my mind for this: A) Gang initiation - I have seen this suggested many time here and in other locations, but to me I do not think this was gang initiation at all. It just does not add up to me and if it was a gang initiation I believe that would have been determined by now, after 10 years. B) Inside job - This is a strong possibility, but to me this is not the motive. If this was supposed to be an intended robbery why stay in the store for so long, and why leave the doors to the store unlocked as the supposed robbery was taking place further leaving the suspect open to being caught much easier. C) Revenge - Revenge might be a poor choice for a word but I could not think of anything better. This will be the option I am going with. And here's why. First off, the papers that the suspect was holding in his hands. The victims looked at the papers!! If there was something wrong with the papers then that would have alerted the victims immediately. My thinking is the suspect worked for the delivery company, had access to invoices and either made copies of them or took some originals as a way to gain credibility with the management and employees of the store. So why would someone who worked for the delivery company do this? My thinking is that the person either made some sort of advance at one of the employees or even one of the managers and was flat out rejected. The employee/manager who he made the advances to took offense to it, reported him to his company and I am sure with previous complaints added up against him got fired for his unprofessional behavior. It might not even have been a sexual advance, it might have been something he said or did that caught the attention of an employee or manager and been reported for as well. Which in my thinking, also provides an explanation as to why the suspect would wait so long in the store. He was waiting for a specific employee or manager, and left the doors unlocked so that person could walk in with no suspicions. Once one of the victims called 911 those plans immediately went in the trash and he had to take care of everyone. At this point, with no job and many witnesses he had nothing to lose and all of this could have triggered him to take a completely irrational approach to the situation. Let me know what y'all think? I could be way overthinking this.

    Hear are some of my initial thoughts on this case based on listening to the podcast and some research I have done:

    1. Male or woman?

    I would say with certainty that it is a male. While there are certain qualities(beads in the braid, manicured fingernails and the potential voice on the recording) that could be made in the argument for it to be a female, I have no doubts it is a male. First off we have the report that the suspect engaged in several minutes worth of interactions with people trying to figure out locations for delivery and the manager had even gone back and forth between employees with the suspect in order to find an answer for his inquiries. Secondly, whether or not the DNA evidence is of good quality it should be enough to determine at least whether the suspect is male or female. The fact the police are certain it's a male tells me that they have the evidence and proof the back that up.

    2. What was the motive for this?

    Several things come to my mind for this:

    A) Gang initiation - I have seen this suggested many time here and in other locations, but to me I do not think this was gang initiation at all. It just does not add up to me and if it was a gang initiation I believe that would have been determined by now, after 10 years.

    B) Inside job - This is a strong possibility, but to me this is not the motive. If this was supposed to be an intended robbery why stay in the store for so long, and why leave the doors to the store unlocked as the supposed robbery was taking place further leaving the suspect open to being caught much easier.

    C) Revenge - Revenge might be a poor choice for a word but I could not think of anything better. This will be the option I am going with. And here's why. First off, the papers that the suspect was holding in his hands. The victims looked at the papers!! If there was something wrong with the papers then that would have alerted the victims immediately. My thinking is the suspect worked for the delivery company, had access to invoices and either made copies of them or took some originals as a way to gain credibility with the management and employees of the store. So why would someone who worked for the delivery company do this? My thinking is that the person either made some sort of advance at one of the employees or even one of the managers and was flat out rejected. The employee/manager who he made the advances to took offense to it, reported him to his company and I am sure with previous complaints added up against him got fired for his unprofessional behavior. It might not even have been a sexual advance, it might have been something he said or did that caught the attention of an employee or manager and been reported for as well. Which in my thinking, also provides an explanation as to why the suspect would wait so long in the store. He was waiting for a specific employee or manager, and left the doors unlocked so that person could walk in with no suspicions. Once one of the victims called 911 those plans immediately went in the trash and he had to take care of everyone. At this point, with no job and many witnesses he had nothing to lose and all of this could have triggered him to take a completely irrational approach to the situation.

    Let me know what y'all think? I could be way overthinking this.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous Tinley Park

    As someone who has lived in Tinley Park my entire life I was very interested in this case being covered. During the podcast I know it was mentioned that based on the demographics of Tinley Park the assailant probably wasn't local. If you are looking at Tinley Park only, the town itself is very white, but this Lane Bryant is on the border (of the town and the county) and at the exit for a major highway (I-80). If you take a quick 5 minute drive East on I-80 you start to hit some suburbs that are predominately African American. It seems likely to me that someone came from as close as Country Club Hills (87% African American and > 5miles away) just east on I-80. If they were that close it would make sense that the helicopters and patrols wouldn't have caught them. It also only takes 15-20 minutes from this I-80 entrance to cross the border into Indiana. It is actually very common for Indiana natives from around the border to come to the Tinley Park/Orland Park area to shop so this individual could easily have been a frequent visitor. Just some more insight into the local area. A friend's father was an officer on this case and he always said the location of that store to the highway and how that highway connects quickly to other major highways was a huge headache in terms of a search.

    As someone who has lived in Tinley Park my entire life I was very interested in this case being covered. During the podcast I know it was mentioned that based on the demographics of Tinley Park the assailant probably wasn't local. If you are looking at Tinley Park only, the town itself is very white, but this Lane Bryant is on the border (of the town and the county) and at the exit for a major highway (I-80). If you take a quick 5 minute drive East on I-80 you start to hit some suburbs that are predominately African American. It seems likely to me that someone came from as close as Country Club Hills (87% African American and > 5miles away) just east on I-80. If they were that close it would make sense that the helicopters and patrols wouldn't have caught them. It also only takes 15-20 minutes from this I-80 entrance to cross the border into Indiana. It is actually very common for Indiana natives from around the border to come to the Tinley Park/Orland Park area to shop so this individual could easily have been a frequent visitor.

    Just some more insight into the local area. A friend's father was an officer on this case and he always said the location of that store to the highway and how that highway connects quickly to other major highways was a huge headache in terms of a search.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you Anonymous. I should have been more clear as I was aware of the surrounding areas. I should have said I don't believe this person is a Tinley Park resident. Cheers Nic

    Thank you Anonymous. I should have been more clear as I was aware of the surrounding areas. I should have said I don't believe this person is a Tinley Park resident.
    Cheers Nic

  • Jennifer Jones

    Jennifer Jones Denver

    Just popping in to say I also believe it's a woman. It would be wise to release more info to the public on this crime, like whether or not the DNA evidence found was sufficient, or ever existed at all. If it was a woman it would explain partly why the suspect hasn't been found. Thick winter coat? Of course. Would hide the figure. They/she could easily blend in and not be suspected publicly. She could slip back into feminine attire, change hair and voila. Also. Lane Bryant? Just doesn't initially sounds like a store a man would choose, though you guys did outline why it might have been a target. I hope it gets solved. These families deserve justice. Thanks for the amazing podcast work, guys! Just discovered it and am really enjoying it so far. Just makes me a little thirsty for a beer while I'm driving around for work! 🍻

    Just popping in to say I also believe it's a woman. It would be wise to release more info to the public on this crime, like whether or not the DNA evidence found was sufficient, or ever existed at all. If it was a woman it would explain partly why the suspect hasn't been found. Thick winter coat? Of course. Would hide the figure. They/she could easily blend in and not be suspected publicly. She could slip back into feminine attire, change hair and voila. Also. Lane Bryant? Just doesn't initially sounds like a store a man would choose, though you guys did outline why it might have been a target.
    I hope it gets solved. These families deserve justice.
    Thanks for the amazing podcast work, guys! Just discovered it and am really enjoying it so far. Just makes me a little thirsty for a beer while I'm driving around for work! 🍻

  • Tiffany J.

    Tiffany J. Chicago

    I listened to the podcast today about this case and I saw the composite of the suspect. My thoughts: Not only is this suspect is a woman, she's what people in the LGBQT community would consider a stud. A lot of African American women tend to have deeper voices and an African American stud will not only sound like a man, but look like one. I believe that's why this hasn't been solved. It will also explain the sexual component to the case. The police should broaden their search to an African American woman who is a lesbian stud.

    I listened to the podcast today about this case and I saw the composite of the suspect. My thoughts: Not only is this suspect is a woman, she's what people in the LGBQT community would consider a stud. A lot of African American women tend to have deeper voices and an African American stud will not only sound like a man, but look like one. I believe that's why this hasn't been solved. It will also explain the sexual component to the case. The police should broaden their search to an African American woman who is a lesbian stud.

Add comment