Lords of Bakersfield /// 328 /// 329

18 comments

  • amanda

    amanda indy

    no where to comment for off the record this week. sorry. but i had a thought that they pushed back mindhunter season 2 premier to line up with the 50th anniversary of the manson family murders and once upon a time in hollywood. hopefully season 3 will be released sooner.

    no where to comment for off the record this week. sorry. but i had a thought that they pushed back mindhunter season 2 premier to line up with the 50th anniversary of the manson family murders and once upon a time in hollywood. hopefully season 3 will be released sooner.

  • Nic, I agree with your $0.02 opinion about Robert Mistriel , that many of his allegations are questionable. So many people involved, and a ring of pedophiles participating in a wide conspiracy, is simply ridiculous. I feel that most "conspiracies" are just as you described--a wink, a nudge, a turning away, and then something happens and someone takes action to prevent someone else being found out, and the next thing you know mistake upon mistake starts to occur and run down hill like a waterfall. No one necessarily gathers in a room and plans out a strategy. But a big, fat, knot results that becomes tighter the more you try to pull it loose. That said, your thought that he was responsible enough to have just left the sexual abusive situations he had found himself in, at 13 years old, a preteen, or even a teenager, are completely out of line. Just because he was "selling himself" in a criminal manner does not mean he was not abused. While he was under age he was, in fact, RAPED. I am confident that you did not mean to discount sexual violence or rape victims, but this is most definitely abuse. It's common for the perpetrator to "reward" the victim with money or gifts. That doesn't make the act okay, legal, or erase its effects. The brain does not stop growing and learning until at least the age of 21, and in some cases as late as 25 or 27. Until an adult can "look around corners," and see the ultimate consequences of their behavior, they are not mature enough to understand the hurt they cause other people. This does not make them automatically innocent, but it does make their complete guilt at least highly questionable. In sexual abuse, rape, there is an abuser and an abusee. The abuser always, always, always has the power. Even a boy the size of a left tackle can be put into a situation with an older, physically weaker man where the boy is powerless. Please understand this. This kind of ignorance is why so many rapes go under-reported--and not just by women. Many heterosexual boys and men are also raped. It's a problem so far under the rug as to be buried in our collective crawlspace. I feel it is important to also point out that childhood sexual abuse fundamentally changes the composition of a growing brain, particularly the way the amygdala controls a person's aversion to risky behavior. That's been proven by research at several universities studying the impact of post-traumatic stress disorder, like Duke--I can send you links to the articles if you would like--and can be seen in CAT scans of the brain and other tests. A sexually abused child often becomes adept at lying and manipulating others to ensure what s/he sees as her survival. I believe you mentioned that Mistriel said he had been having sex with older men for money "so he could survive." From the scant testimony provided by his father, it seems that there is a story missing about this man's family that most likely explains how this whole thing started. I hope we hear it some day.

    Nic, I agree with your $0.02 opinion about Robert Mistriel , that many of his allegations are questionable. So many people involved, and a ring of pedophiles participating in a wide conspiracy, is simply ridiculous. I feel that most "conspiracies" are just as you described--a wink, a nudge, a turning away, and then something happens and someone takes action to prevent someone else being found out, and the next thing you know mistake upon mistake starts to occur and run down hill like a waterfall. No one necessarily gathers in a room and plans out a strategy. But a big, fat, knot results that becomes tighter the more you try to pull it loose.

    That said, your thought that he was responsible enough to have just left the sexual abusive situations he had found himself in, at 13 years old, a preteen, or even a teenager, are completely out of line. Just because he was "selling himself" in a criminal manner does not mean he was not abused. While he was under age he was, in fact, RAPED. I am confident that you did not mean to discount sexual violence or rape victims, but this is most definitely abuse. It's common for the perpetrator to "reward" the victim with money or gifts. That doesn't make the act okay, legal, or erase its effects.

    The brain does not stop growing and learning until at least the age of 21, and in some cases as late as 25 or 27. Until an adult can "look around corners," and see the ultimate consequences of their behavior, they are not mature enough to understand the hurt they cause other people. This does not make them automatically innocent, but it does make their complete guilt at least highly questionable. In sexual abuse, rape, there is an abuser and an abusee. The abuser always, always, always has the power. Even a boy the size of a left tackle can be put into a situation with an older, physically weaker man where the boy is powerless. Please understand this. This kind of ignorance is why so many rapes go under-reported--and not just by women. Many heterosexual boys and men are also raped. It's a problem so far under the rug as to be buried in our collective crawlspace.

    I feel it is important to also point out that childhood sexual abuse fundamentally changes the composition of a growing brain, particularly the way the amygdala controls a person's aversion to risky behavior. That's been proven by research at several universities studying the impact of post-traumatic stress disorder, like Duke--I can send you links to the articles if you would like--and can be seen in CAT scans of the brain and other tests. A sexually abused child often becomes adept at lying and manipulating others to ensure what s/he sees as her survival. I believe you mentioned that Mistriel said he had been having sex with older men for money "so he could survive." From the scant testimony provided by his father, it seems that there is a story missing about this man's family that most likely explains how this whole thing started. I hope we hear it some day.

  • Matt

    Matt Virginia

    What was the Captain saying about an average predator having 200+ victims? Was that for this case, or is that a national average? I'm curious as to the source of that number.

    What was the Captain saying about an average predator having 200+ victims? Was that for this case, or is that a national average? I'm curious as to the source of that number.

  • Alysia

    Alysia NJ

    Just wanted to provide some insight because the Captain inquired as to why Biggs was not charged with Robbery. Robbery = theft + force. Meaning in the commission of a theft, the suspect used some sort of force. The level of force and/or whether a weapon was used determines the degree. So if the theft was an afterthought, it may not have fallen within the statutory confines of a “robbery.” Theft in the most basic sense is unlawful taking. The degree of which is dependent upon the value of the property taken. For example, in NJ theft of property less than $200 is considered a disorderly persons offense; $200-$500 a fourth degree felony; $500-$75000 a third degree felony; $75000+ a second degree felony. So, if what Biggs stole was worthless, it very well could have been considered a misdemeanor/disorderly persons offense and therefore not important in Superior Court proceedings. Disorderly persons offenses usually hang around until the more serious crimes are resolved and then will be remanded to municipal court or dismissed. Additionally, just for further reference, burglary = unlawful entry (or hiding) + crime. Meaning the suspect enters a property of which he/she does not have permission to be, with the intent of committing a crime therein. Most of the time, that crime is theft, but it does not have to be. The “hiding” aspect comes into play, for example, when a suspect is legally allowed to be in a store but when it closes, suspect hides in a dressing room - no longer legally being inside the store- and then commits a crime (if that makes sense). Burglary is a third degree crime, second if a weapon is used, so hypothetically you could be charged with a misdemeanor theft but a third degree burglary. Just wanted to try to clear it up as best I could. I do not know specifics of California’s criminal law but most states have codified the same uniform criminal code and are thus, very similar. Hope this helps!

    Just wanted to provide some insight because the Captain inquired as to why Biggs was not charged with Robbery.

    Robbery = theft + force. Meaning in the commission of a theft, the suspect used some sort of force. The level of force and/or whether a weapon was used determines the degree. So if the theft was an afterthought, it may not have fallen within the statutory confines of a “robbery.”

    Theft in the most basic sense is unlawful taking. The degree of which is dependent upon the value of the property taken. For example, in NJ theft of property less than $200 is considered a disorderly persons offense; $200-$500 a fourth degree felony; $500-$75000 a third degree felony; $75000+ a second degree felony.
    So, if what Biggs stole was worthless, it very well could have been considered a misdemeanor/disorderly persons offense and therefore not important in Superior Court proceedings. Disorderly persons offenses usually hang around until the more serious crimes are resolved and then will be remanded to municipal court or dismissed.

    Additionally, just for further reference, burglary = unlawful entry (or hiding) + crime. Meaning the suspect enters a property of which he/she does not have permission to be, with the intent of committing a crime therein. Most of the time, that crime is theft, but it does not have to be. The “hiding” aspect comes into play, for example, when a suspect is legally allowed to be in a store but when it closes, suspect hides in a dressing room - no longer legally being inside the store- and then commits a crime (if that makes sense). Burglary is a third degree crime, second if a weapon is used, so hypothetically you could be charged with a misdemeanor theft but a third degree burglary.

    Just wanted to try to clear it up as best I could. I do not know specifics of California’s criminal law but most states have codified the same uniform criminal code and are thus, very similar. Hope this helps!

  • Stella De Zen

    Stella De Zen Adelaide South Australia

    Awesome podcasts....great....always look forward to every episode...cheers from Australia

    Awesome podcasts....great....always look forward to every episode...cheers from Australia

  • Paul

    Paul Wisconsin

    The problem with these kinds of stories is that there are so many of these kinds of stories. This is supposedly also happened to Danny Gosch, for those familiar with that case. Then there is the pizzagate stuff where a lot of right leaning people embraced the idea that every democrat at the highest level is secretly a pedophile. I wouldn't be shocked, per se, but i would genuinely be surprised if any of these stories were true. A. These stories appeal to people's anti establishment bias. B. The villains in these stories vary depending on who's telling it. Was it Clinton? Was it George W Bush? C. These aren't stories coming from someone who just got rescued from something, it's almost always "i was a victim of all the most powerful people in the word, all of them, and all of them are satanic pedophiles, and i decided to live with it for 20 years before telling you now. Please buy my book!"

    The problem with these kinds of stories is that there are so many of these kinds of stories. This is supposedly also happened to Danny Gosch, for those familiar with that case. Then there is the pizzagate stuff where a lot of right leaning people embraced the idea that every democrat at the highest level is secretly a pedophile. I wouldn't be shocked, per se, but i would genuinely be surprised if any of these stories were true. A. These stories appeal to people's anti establishment bias. B. The villains in these stories vary depending on who's telling it. Was it Clinton? Was it George W Bush? C. These aren't stories coming from someone who just got rescued from something, it's almost always "i was a victim of all the most powerful people in the word, all of them, and all of them are satanic pedophiles, and i decided to live with it for 20 years before telling you now. Please buy my book!"

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    @Unnamed commenter - I agree with you and you are absolutely right. This is a tough story/cases for me to really have any opinions on. That's why my opinions on it probably make little to no sense. @Matt - I don't know where the Captain's info came from but I didn't comment on the show because it really threw me off. I'm not saying he is wrong/right - just don't know Thanks to all for posting here! Nic

    @Unnamed commenter - I agree with you and you are absolutely right. This is a tough story/cases for me to really have any opinions on. That's why my opinions on it probably make little to no sense.

    @Matt - I don't know where the Captain's info came from but I didn't comment on the show because it really threw me off. I'm not saying he is wrong/right - just don't know

    Thanks to all for posting here!
    Nic

  • Casey

    Casey Orange County, California

    Wow. I feel as though Nik has been off his game for a few weeks now, but this was especially disappointing. Victim-blaming a minor for selling himself for money and drugs. He was a CHILD. What in the actual hell? So much of the doubt he casts on the alleged victims of this case was just so, so disappointing. I understand objectivity, but this didn’t feel objective to me. It feels like he blamed troubled children for the acts of terrible, high-powered men. TCG has been my favorite true crime podcast for years, but this ep was so hard for me to listen to.

    Wow. I feel as though Nik has been off his game for a few weeks now, but this was especially disappointing. Victim-blaming a minor for selling himself for money and drugs. He was a CHILD. What in the actual hell? So much of the doubt he casts on the alleged victims of this case was just so, so disappointing. I understand objectivity, but this didn’t feel objective to me. It feels like he blamed troubled children for the acts of terrible, high-powered men. TCG has been my favorite true crime podcast for years, but this ep was so hard for me to listen to.

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    Nic-I have come to trust your intuition on cases primarily because we think a lot alike I believe. I think this case was a powder keg because many things about Robert's story, from the details to the timing (after he himself is in trouble) set off red flags to a discerning person. So I can understand why you said what you said about him. That having been said, I can see the perspective of others who feel you were victim blaming. I for the record do not think you were nor that you ever would. I think you are dubious, and rightfully so, because your gut (and mine too) are saying "meh-something doesn't fit here." But to personality types that are less intuitive and more judgmental, and less assertive and more tempestuous-using those words in a psychological context according to personality mapping- they are only going to hear THE WORDS you are saying and be less inclined to try to understand why you are saying it. In a nut shell, with a case like this, anyone who takes a position askew of 100% acceptance of a victims statement is going to be attacked. I have found personally that in instances like this one, it is better to not share my thoughts since most people are not able to receive them as they are intended.

    Nic-I have come to trust your intuition on cases primarily because we think a lot alike I believe. I think this case was a powder keg because many things about Robert's story, from the details to the timing (after he himself is in trouble) set off red flags to a discerning person. So I can understand why you said what you said about him. That having been said, I can see the perspective of others who feel you were victim blaming. I for the record do not think you were nor that you ever would. I think you are dubious, and rightfully so, because your gut (and mine too) are saying "meh-something doesn't fit here." But to personality types that are less intuitive and more judgmental, and less assertive and more tempestuous-using those words in a psychological context according to personality mapping- they are only going to hear THE WORDS you are saying and be less inclined to try to understand why you are saying it. In a nut shell, with a case like this, anyone who takes a position askew of 100% acceptance of a victims statement is going to be attacked. I have found personally that in instances like this one, it is better to not share my thoughts since most people are not able to receive them as they are intended.

  • joe

    joe dirt

    @ casey-Whats up with everyone calling teenagers "child" or "children" nowadays? When i think of "child" or children, i think of ones who are younger than a teenager and cannot (if necessary) support themselves. Used to be the definition, guess it's changed like so many other words nowadays... No ones victim blaming a 13 year for being sexually abused. I think the kid (notice i said kid not "child"), who committed murder and then robbed the dude, does lose some points for clearly not feeling remorse for murdering someone then robbing said individual. But I don't think anyone necessary blames the kid in the end. @ paul- Bro, pizzagate is for reals! Nah, it would be interesting to know some more information on this conspiracy. Think that would be a good episode for them to do, and focus on the guy who showed up with a gun.

    @ casey-Whats up with everyone calling teenagers "child" or "children" nowadays? When i think of "child" or children, i think of ones who are younger than a teenager and cannot (if necessary) support themselves. Used to be the definition, guess it's changed like so many other words nowadays...
    No ones victim blaming a 13 year for being sexually abused. I think the kid (notice i said kid not "child"), who committed murder and then robbed the dude, does lose some points for clearly not feeling remorse for murdering someone then robbing said individual. But I don't think anyone necessary blames the kid in the end.
    @ paul- Bro, pizzagate is for reals! Nah, it would be interesting to know some more information on this conspiracy. Think that would be a good episode for them to do, and focus on the guy who showed up with a gun.

  • Cathy

    Cathy Boston

    Just couldn't get into the case this week. Too many names, perps, victims, etc to keep track of on the ride in. Seems like a sorted mess though, with lots of blame to go around. On another note, I wanted to give a shout out to Jack's Abby Brewing Co in Worcester MA. Their Blood Orange Wheat may be the best microbrew I've ever had. You guys ought to try it with the beer donation I sent in awhile ago :D. https://jacksabby.com/beer/

    Just couldn't get into the case this week. Too many names, perps, victims, etc to keep track of on the ride in. Seems like a sorted mess though, with lots of blame to go around. On another note, I wanted to give a shout out to Jack's Abby Brewing Co in Worcester MA. Their Blood Orange Wheat may be the best microbrew I've ever had. You guys ought to try it with the beer donation I sent in awhile ago biggrin. https://jacksabby.com/beer/

  • HowardGueft

    HowardGueft Hungary

    Erectile dysfunction (ED) is the inability to get or keep an erection cheap viagra firm enough to have sexual intercourse. It's also sometimes referred to as impotence.

    Erectile dysfunction (ED) is the inability to get or keep an erection cheap viagra firm enough to have sexual intercourse. It's also sometimes referred to as impotence.

  • John R. Blythe

    John R. Blythe Kern County

    Thanks for the podcast on this! I'm a Kern County native and of the Bakersfield area and have been involved in local politics when I'm not busy working in the motion picture industry. This case is still talked about periodically from a lot of even the high powered people I know in government. Unfortunately, Kern County has been controlled by a small group of people for too long, even when new people come into political positions, its like the old saying, the more things change, the more they stay the same. A colleague of mine in the film industry actually is thinking about directing a future documentary on the Lords of Bakersfield. It would be a fascinating piece. Incidentally, Bakersfield did have its own serial killer in the late 1990's and early 2000's who would stalk prostitutes in the downtown part of the city on Union Ave. Also, you guys might be interested in the recent "Bakersfield 3" case, which is very bizarre as well. That got national attention several months ago, even on the Dr. Phil Show.

    Thanks for the podcast on this! I'm a Kern County native and of the Bakersfield area and have been involved in local politics when I'm not busy working in the motion picture industry. This case is still talked about periodically from a lot of even the high powered people I know in government. Unfortunately, Kern County has been controlled by a small group of people for too long, even when new people come into political positions, its like the old saying, the more things change, the more they stay the same. A colleague of mine in the film industry actually is thinking about directing a future documentary on the Lords of Bakersfield. It would be a fascinating piece. Incidentally, Bakersfield did have its own serial killer in the late 1990's and early 2000's who would stalk prostitutes in the downtown part of the city on Union Ave. Also, you guys might be interested in the recent "Bakersfield 3" case, which is very bizarre as well. That got national attention several months ago, even on the Dr. Phil Show.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you John! We were talking a little Bakersfield three off mic. I was unaware of your SK. Cheers Nic

    Thank you John!
    We were talking a little Bakersfield three off mic. I was unaware of your SK.
    Cheers Nic

  • P.J.

    P.J. Shasta, California

    Robert Mistriel was a handsome, manipulative sociopath. And still is. Sure, he was abused and molested, and then, those who were supposed to protect him, didn't. From Sally Rockholdt to the D.A., Jagels. But he could of found help had he really wanted to. He loved being taken care of, getting gifts and money, from sad old men who cruised Bakersfield streets. As one of many teenagers who occasionally crossed paths with Bobby and the Lost boys from L.A., I can tell you without reservation that the local kids all knew those "boys from Los Angeles", and to stay away from them. They would lie, cheat, steal, and hurt you if you got in their way. My friends from Chipman certainly tried to avoid them. Do I think Bobby served enough time for not only his crimes, but others he wasn't convicted of? Yes. Because the men who really should of been held responsible (Ted Fritts) are long gone.

    Robert Mistriel was a handsome, manipulative sociopath. And still is.
    Sure, he was abused and molested, and then, those who were supposed to protect him, didn't. From Sally Rockholdt to the D.A., Jagels. But he could of found help had he really wanted to. He loved being taken care of, getting gifts and money, from sad old men who cruised Bakersfield streets.
    As one of many teenagers who occasionally crossed paths with Bobby and the Lost boys from L.A., I can tell you without reservation that the local kids all knew those "boys from Los Angeles", and to stay away from them. They would lie, cheat, steal, and hurt you if you got in their way. My friends from Chipman certainly tried to avoid them.
    Do I think Bobby served enough time for not only his crimes, but others he wasn't convicted of? Yes. Because the men who really should of been held responsible (Ted Fritts) are long gone.

  • Jenn M

    Jenn M Lockhart TX

    So I remember Nic mentioning that someone had commented TCG was nothing more than one long commercial for Mindhunter. I can't believe it took me so long to listen to y'alls advice and watch the show. Now I get it, both my husband and I had some extra time off together this week and we've been bingeing on it. I am addicted. We need to rally as a community though and get a petition going to make it last longer than 5 seasons. I mean, come on! There's so much more they could cover, or maybe we could write it ourselves and just send it in like fan art. Who's with me? Love you Nic and The Captain, keep up the great work!

    So I remember Nic mentioning that someone had commented TCG was nothing more than one long commercial for Mindhunter. I can't believe it took me so long to listen to y'alls advice and watch the show. Now I get it, both my husband and I had some extra time off together this week and we've been bingeing on it. I am addicted. We need to rally as a community though and get a petition going to make it last longer than 5 seasons. I mean, come on! There's so much more they could cover, or maybe we could write it ourselves and just send it in like fan art. Who's with me? Love you Nic and The Captain, keep up the great work!

  • mG

    mG

    I think Bakersfield shared similarities with about every other town and city at the time. Violence against homosexuals was kind of viewed as violence against African Americans in the Jim Crow South. And political connections insulated people from legal action. I feel for Mistriel, because he wasn't born that way, he got that way from a horrific childhood and years of abuse.

    I think Bakersfield shared similarities with about every other town and city at the time. Violence against homosexuals was kind of viewed as violence against African Americans in the Jim Crow South. And political connections insulated people from legal action. I feel for Mistriel, because he wasn't born that way, he got that way from a horrific childhood and years of abuse.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous Missouri

    wow what a F'ed up story. so sad how these bad people cover for each other!!! as always great job telling the story guys!

    wow what a F'ed up story. so sad how these bad people cover for each other!!! as always great job telling the story guys!

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