The Fifth Nail /// 118 /// 119

43 comments

  • Diana

    Diana Baltimore, MD

    Not sending out an AMBER Alert within the first 48 hours was tragic. Didn't the police notice that an additional two young children lived in the home when they searched the crime scene? BTW - love your podcast! Great job covering some complex cases!

    Not sending out an AMBER Alert within the first 48 hours was tragic. Didn't the police notice that an additional two young children lived in the home when they searched the crime scene?
    BTW - love your podcast! Great job covering some complex cases!

  • Toni

    Toni Boise, ID

    Long time listener. Love you guys. Hands down the very best true crime podcast out there. I feel like I know you guys, like we are friends or something. From one beer lover to another, if I ever make it to OH, I will totally buy you both a delicious beer! About this case, I live in Idaho and this was a VERY big deal when it happened. I studied Criminal Justice at Boise State University during the time Duncan was on trial and I was able to see scans of his brain and stuff, super interesting. One super quick thing though, just a little thing that I feel like I should point out, Coeur d'Alene is pronounced Cor (like phone cord without the D sound) duh-lane. Nic seemed to have a little bit of trouble with that, as do many others :) Keep up the great work!! You guys rock!

    Long time listener. Love you guys. Hands down the very best true crime podcast out there. I feel like I know you guys, like we are friends or something. From one beer lover to another, if I ever make it to OH, I will totally buy you both a delicious beer! About this case, I live in Idaho and this was a VERY big deal when it happened. I studied Criminal Justice at Boise State University during the time Duncan was on trial and I was able to see scans of his brain and stuff, super interesting. One super quick thing though, just a little thing that I feel like I should point out, Coeur d'Alene is pronounced Cor (like phone cord without the D sound) duh-lane. Nic seemed to have a little bit of trouble with that, as do many others smile Keep up the great work!! You guys rock!

  • Charity

    Charity Oregon

    Coeur d'Alene Idaho is a little over 300 miles from Seattle, not 30 miles 😊

    Coeur d'Alene Idaho is a little over 300 miles from Seattle, not 30 miles 😊

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Ha! Charity I'm an idiot. I meant to say Spokane, Washington. It's probably only funny to me because when we make a mistake like that it's quite embarrassing because now I know a whole bunch of people are still yet to hear this and they are going to be like, what's this guy talking about! Cheers and thanks, Nic

    Ha! Charity I'm an idiot. I meant to say Spokane, Washington. It's probably only funny to me because when we make a mistake like that it's quite embarrassing because now I know a whole bunch of people are still yet to hear this and they are going to be like, what's this guy talking about!
    Cheers and thanks,
    Nic

  • Jeff

    Jeff Georgia

    Just wanted to say thanks to 2 days in a row of making me lol. I listened to the phantom episode yesterday and busted out laughing at the Captain saying "allegebly". So today when I heard him laughing at your computer comment, I lost it. Both at your comment lol, but also at the thought of the nerve of "Captain Allegebly" to laugh at your computer comment. You've earned your beer money this week for sure! Love the show! Keep at it!

    Just wanted to say thanks to 2 days in a row of making me lol. I listened to the phantom episode yesterday and busted out laughing at the Captain saying "allegebly". So today when I heard him laughing at your computer comment, I lost it. Both at your comment lol, but also at the thought of the nerve of "Captain Allegebly" to laugh at your computer comment. You've earned your beer money this week for sure! Love the show! Keep at it!

  • Dave

    Dave Sacramento, Ca

    "He went to school for computer." Best line of the series! Keep up the great work!!!

    "He went to school for computer." Best line of the series! Keep up the great work!!!

  • JT

    JT Missouri

    A couple great episodes. Listened to them in one sitting. The story prompted some research and I found this .... It looks like Shasta is pretty close to the goal and could use some help advertising. Just a thought. . . https://www.change.org/p/idaho-slade-and-dylans-law

    A couple great episodes. Listened to them in one sitting. The story prompted some research and I found this .... It looks like Shasta is pretty close to the goal and could use some help advertising. Just a thought. . .

    https://www.change.org/p/idaho-slade-and-dylans-law

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you JT! TCG

    Thank you JT!

    TCG

  • Lorrin

    Lorrin Springfield, Massachusetts

    I began college with the plan of eventually majoring in computer. The curriculum proved to be very challenging. The fact that Duncan got far enough to be credited as being someone who successfully studied computer says a lot. Loved the episode. Keep up the great work guys and thank you.

    I began college with the plan of eventually majoring in computer. The curriculum proved to be very challenging. The fact that Duncan got far enough to be credited as being someone who successfully studied computer says a lot. Loved the episode. Keep up the great work guys and thank you.

  • Amamda

    Amamda Georgia

    Just FYI adderal will come up on a drug test as amphetamine so they could have just on legal ADHD drugs

    Just FYI adderal will come up on a drug test as amphetamine so they could have just on legal ADHD drugs

  • David

    David Northeast TN

    Girlfriend turned me on to the podcast after she and all her coworkers have been listening. Amazes me some of the inept investigators, but glad that this one had at least a partial happy ending with Shastas return. Keep up the great work!

    Girlfriend turned me on to the podcast after she and all her coworkers have been listening. Amazes me some of the inept investigators, but glad that this one had at least a partial happy ending with Shastas return.
    Keep up the great work!

  • Natasha

    Natasha Konstanz, Germany

    Big thanks to you guys for doing this show. I got addcicted quickly, the music, the style of storytelling, the jokes, all is a blessing to my ears. Keep on going. My boyfriend is waiting for his first cool socks from SockClub, your merit as well. Cheers.

    Big thanks to you guys for doing this show. I got addcicted quickly, the music, the style of storytelling, the jokes, all is a blessing to my ears. Keep on going. My boyfriend is waiting for his first cool socks from SockClub, your merit as well.
    Cheers.

  • Mark

    Mark NY

    I REALLY like that you guys don't do the monotone voice thing I hear on a lot of true crime podcasts. That gets to be like nails on a chalkboard to me. I also like that you guys are very different from each other, both in voice, and approaches to things at times. Yet you can tell you've been friends for a long time. You sould like 2 regular guys sitting around just shooting the shit. Love it! I'm glad you don't go back and edit out, or re-do mispronunciations, or stumbles..... nobody speaks perfectly, so for me, it adds to the real feel of the show. I can tell you guys work hard at this podcast. It shows in the final product, and this is quickly becoming my favorite pod...

    I REALLY like that you guys don't do the monotone voice thing I hear on a lot of true crime podcasts. That gets to be like nails on a chalkboard to me. I also like that you guys are very different from each other, both in voice, and approaches to things at times. Yet you can tell you've been friends for a long time. You sould like 2 regular guys sitting around just shooting the shit. Love it! I'm glad you don't go back and edit out, or re-do mispronunciations, or stumbles..... nobody speaks perfectly, so for me, it adds to the real feel of the show. I can tell you guys work hard at this podcast. It shows in the final product, and this is quickly becoming my favorite pod...

  • Jake

    Jake Vancouver, WA

    First off, love the show, and got my parents hooked. Since we love beer and a good podcast, it works great! Still wrapping up the first of these two, but I wanted to put something up for The Captain to think about. So, Marijuana and Methamphetamines were found in the parents systems. However, I think some research should be done into their prescriptions. I take medication for ADHD and one of the substances that is in that medication is a Methamphetamine. I have never done Meth or even seen it in person in my life, but I would test positive due to this and have had to inform places when I have taken drug tests for jobs.

    First off, love the show, and got my parents hooked. Since we love beer and a good podcast, it works great!

    Still wrapping up the first of these two, but I wanted to put something up for The Captain to think about.
    So, Marijuana and Methamphetamines were found in the parents systems. However, I think some research should be done into their prescriptions. I take medication for ADHD and one of the substances that is in that medication is a Methamphetamine. I have never done Meth or even seen it in person in my life, but I would test positive due to this and have had to inform places when I have taken drug tests for jobs.

  • Cyndi

    Cyndi Ok

    So did/is law enforcement monitoring his wealthy perv friends?

    So did/is law enforcement monitoring his wealthy perv friends?

  • Madison Green

    Madison Green Tulare, CA

    Hey guys! Love this episode! I'm not sure if anyone has told you this before but there is an amazing website called deathpenaltyinfo.org. I remember The Captain saying that there haven't been any executions since 2003, but actually there has been many since than and even multiple that have been carried out this year. The website gives great statistics and also provides a list of the people who have been executed, where they were from, their crime and also what method was used to execute them. I couldn't find Joseph on there so Nick would be correct in saying that his execution date has not been set. Hope you find this helpful. Can't wait for the next episode!

    Hey guys! Love this episode! I'm not sure if anyone has told you this before but there is an amazing website called deathpenaltyinfo.org. I remember The Captain saying that there haven't been any executions since 2003, but actually there has been many since than and even multiple that have been carried out this year. The website gives great statistics and also provides a list of the people who have been executed, where they were from, their crime and also what method was used to execute them. I couldn't find Joseph on there so Nick would be correct in saying that his execution date has not been set. Hope you find this helpful. Can't wait for the next episode!

  • Skinnyhead

    Skinnyhead NY

    [quote=Dave] "He went to school for computer." Best line of the series! Keep up the great work!!! [/quote] I love how Nic just usually plows right through Captain's (very funny) offhanded comments, This one was just too damn funny.

    Dave wrote:

    "He went to school for computer." Best line of the series! Keep up the great work!!!

    I love how Nic just usually plows right through Captain's (very funny) offhanded comments, This one was just too damn funny.

  • John

    John Cudahy WI

    Any insight into why this guy would be so brazen/stupid as to take the girl to a busy restaurant? Thank God he did....

    Any insight into why this guy would be so brazen/stupid as to take the girl to a busy restaurant? Thank God he did....

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Cyndi, Law enforcement in Fargo, ND are well aware of these guys. Known in Minnesota as well. One lives in the Fargo area and the other in Florida. Their names are on record. I didn't use them because I believe they are simply gay men who were attracted to JD3. I really think they are harmless and I think they thought JD3 was harmless as well. I think they thought JD3 was a closeted gay man and the child rape he committed when he was a child himself was a one time thing. I hope I'm right about these guys but one never knows. Nic

    Hi Cyndi,
    Law enforcement in Fargo, ND are well aware of these guys. Known in Minnesota as well. One lives in the Fargo area and the other in Florida. Their names are on record. I didn't use them because I believe they are simply gay men who were attracted to JD3. I really think they are harmless and I think they thought JD3 was harmless as well. I think they thought JD3 was a closeted gay man and the child rape he committed when he was a child himself was a one time thing. I hope I'm right about these guys but one never knows.
    Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Madison, Thank you for the website information. I like others will surely check it out. As for the 2003 comment.... JD3 is in federal prison and will eventually be executed by the federal government. They have not executed anyone since 2003. Several states have but not the federal government which is much less frequent. Cheers, Nic

    Hi Madison,

    Thank you for the website information. I like others will surely check it out. As for the 2003 comment.... JD3 is in federal prison and will eventually be executed by the federal government. They have not executed anyone since 2003. Several states have but not the federal government which is much less frequent.
    Cheers,
    Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi John, JD3 unfortunately had Shasta with him for about 7 weeks. I think as time went on he got careless or maybe on some level wanted to get caught. He did confess after all. He claims he traveled back to that area to return the girl but JD3 is consistently a liar and I won't believe a thing he says. Later after the capture the public started coming forward. Once they knew the type of vehicle he was driving they realized he and Sasta had been to several gas stations stopping for food and gas. There is video footage of this out there. Cheers, Nic

    Hi John,

    JD3 unfortunately had Shasta with him for about 7 weeks. I think as time went on he got careless or maybe on some level wanted to get caught. He did confess after all. He claims he traveled back to that area to return the girl but JD3 is consistently a liar and I won't believe a thing he says. Later after the capture the public started coming forward. Once they knew the type of vehicle he was driving they realized he and Sasta had been to several gas stations stopping for food and gas. There is video footage of this out there.
    Cheers,
    Nic

  • Janis

    Janis Michigan-GO BLUE 😉

    I just want to say that I've listened to pretty much every episode and this one was, IMO, your best yet...the music, the intro, I loved everything about it! I can't stop thinking about it tho, that poor little girl 😩I had followed this case when it first happened and then it just kind of fell off the radar... Please KEEP IT UP, you are absolutely my favorite guys to listen to~✌🏻💕

    I just want to say that I've listened to pretty much every episode and this one was, IMO, your best yet...the music, the intro, I loved everything about it! I can't stop thinking about it tho, that poor little girl 😩I had followed this case when it first happened and then it just kind of fell off the radar...
    Please KEEP IT UP, you are absolutely my favorite guys to listen to~✌🏻💕

  • Kelsey

    Kelsey Seattle

    Love that you acknowledged the Seattle/Spokane mistake so gracefully. I live in Seattle but was born in and have family in CDA, I have also referred to it as, "30 miles east of Seattle" and totally meaning Spokane. Love your podcast, excited to listen to the rest of this episode!

    Love that you acknowledged the Seattle/Spokane mistake so gracefully. I live in Seattle but was born in and have family in CDA, I have also referred to it as, "30 miles east of Seattle" and totally meaning Spokane. Love your podcast, excited to listen to the rest of this episode!

  • Natalie

    Natalie Idaho

    I was going to contact you to cover this case after a long road trip of only listening to your podcast for 5 hours. Such a horrifying story for those of us in Idaho and not many people know about it. I'm a major true crime fan and your podcast is for sure one of the best I've listened to. Excited to listen to your coverage of this story!

    I was going to contact you to cover this case after a long road trip of only listening to your podcast for 5 hours. Such a horrifying story for those of us in Idaho and not many people know about it.
    I'm a major true crime fan and your podcast is for sure one of the best I've listened to. Excited to listen to your coverage of this story!

  • Brie

    Brie Coeur d'Alene, ID

    You guys read my mind! For months I have been meaning to pop over and recommend doing an episode on Duncan, but I kept forgetting to actually drop you guys a note about it. I hadn't refreshed my feed lately so I didn't see this episode yet... Pulled up the website to finally come and suggest covering this story, and saw Duncan's face at the top of the page. So crazy, I literally did a double take! Good timing guys!

    You guys read my mind! For months I have been meaning to pop over and recommend doing an episode on Duncan, but I kept forgetting to actually drop you guys a note about it. I hadn't refreshed my feed lately so I didn't see this episode yet... Pulled up the website to finally come and suggest covering this story, and saw Duncan's face at the top of the page. So crazy, I literally did a double take! Good timing guys!

  • Vikki

    Vikki Pinehurst NC

    My husband is going to school for " computer shit", so your comment " he went to school for computer" is going to be what I tell people when they ask what his major is. Thanks for the great podcast it is my latest obbession. I listen every night while getting ready to sleep. Vikki

    My husband is going to school for " computer shit", so your comment " he went to school for computer" is going to be what I tell people when they ask what his major is.
    Thanks for the great podcast it is my latest obbession. I listen every night while getting ready to sleep.
    Vikki

  • Gina66

    Gina66 Phoenix

    First and foremost, it's always a good week when I see a new TCG show up on my phone's notifications. So many cases I've never heard of or cases that have an element that is new is always interesting to hear! So thanks guys! While I believe there are SOME criminals that can be rehabilitated, not all of them can. This guy was on parole when he committed other crimes and he's certainly not the first criminal who should've stayed in jail who has been released to go out and continue what they started (Ken McDuff, Jeffery Dahmer, etc) I know this is going to sound harsh, but people like these man are NOT humans, not anymore. And the excuse of 'well, I was molested, so I molested others' is not only weak, but I find insulting to victims of molestation. I've been thinking about this (not THIS, but cases like this and others) and it's a little disconcerting that as a society, we can name serial killers off the top of our heads, but we don't know the victims. In many cases, even our justice system seems set on 'giving these people the ability to live their lives in prison and out', but what about the victims? This family doesn't get to continue their lives - Dylan doesn't get to go to college, so why are we letting these people get their GEDs or college diplomas? Shasta will never be the same after this and she's lost her entire family because a pedophile was re-released into society instead of being kept in prison cell for all of eternity. Parole should never even be a CONSIDERATION in cases like this, no matter how model a prisoner is. Just means they're waiting for defenses to fall and for people to be like 'look! he didn't get into any fights and puts books away in the library, so he must have changed!' BS, on all accounts.

    First and foremost, it's always a good week when I see a new TCG show up on my phone's notifications. So many cases I've never heard of or cases that have an element that is new is always interesting to hear! So thanks guys!

    While I believe there are SOME criminals that can be rehabilitated, not all of them can. This guy was on parole when he committed other crimes and he's certainly not the first criminal who should've stayed in jail who has been released to go out and continue what they started (Ken McDuff, Jeffery Dahmer, etc) I know this is going to sound harsh, but people like these man are NOT humans, not anymore. And the excuse of 'well, I was molested, so I molested others' is not only weak, but I find insulting to victims of molestation.

    I've been thinking about this (not THIS, but cases like this and others) and it's a little disconcerting that as a society, we can name serial killers off the top of our heads, but we don't know the victims. In many cases, even our justice system seems set on 'giving these people the ability to live their lives in prison and out', but what about the victims? This family doesn't get to continue their lives - Dylan doesn't get to go to college, so why are we letting these people get their GEDs or college diplomas?

    Shasta will never be the same after this and she's lost her entire family because a pedophile was re-released into society instead of being kept in prison cell for all of eternity. Parole should never even be a CONSIDERATION in cases like this, no matter how model a prisoner is. Just means they're waiting for defenses to fall and for people to be like 'look! he didn't get into any fights and puts books away in the library, so he must have changed!'

    BS, on all accounts.

  • Jaime

    Jaime Chicago, IL

    Stumbled upon this podcast and I am hooked! True crime and beer- 5/5 bottle caps! One thought about why he hasn't been charged with some of the other crimes he has confessed to could be that the Feds don't want to cause any excuses for more delays in his execution... If he's been convicted and sentenced to death already- they can't do more than that except to do it quickly. And I would assume that adding more charges makes way for more appeals (and delays). Keep up the great work! This is by far my favorite Podcast.

    Stumbled upon this podcast and I am hooked! True crime and beer- 5/5 bottle caps!

    One thought about why he hasn't been charged with some of the other crimes he has confessed to could be that the Feds don't want to cause any excuses for more delays in his execution... If he's been convicted and sentenced to death already- they can't do more than that except to do it quickly. And I would assume that adding more charges makes way for more appeals (and delays).

    Keep up the great work! This is by far my favorite Podcast.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Gina - I couldn't agree with you more. JD3 is not a human in the way that you and I are. Inside he is pure evil. I took some flack about saying we need to get the federal death penalty back up and running. I have very complicated views on the death penalty and I'm not hard and fast about execution, most of the time I think we can do better as a smart society. However any one that wants to argue hard and fast about not having a death penalty please pick a case where the perp doesn't so obviously deserve it. He is one of the worst and I don't like letting evil linger on the planet. - Nic

    Gina - I couldn't agree with you more. JD3 is not a human in the way that you and I are. Inside he is pure evil. I took some flack about saying we need to get the federal death penalty back up and running. I have very complicated views on the death penalty and I'm not hard and fast about execution, most of the time I think we can do better as a smart society. However any one that wants to argue hard and fast about not having a death penalty please pick a case where the perp doesn't so obviously deserve it. He is one of the worst and I don't like letting evil linger on the planet.
    - Nic

  • Ted

    Ted Parts unknown

    Hi fellas Wanted to let you both know I love the pod it helps me through my long days at the sausage factory in the bleak outskirts of Parts Unknown. I think I need some extra tp b/c you guys are the sh!t! Look forward to the pod every week and am working my way through your old episodes. KEEP IT UP!

    Hi fellas

    Wanted to let you both know I love the pod it helps me through my long days at the sausage factory in the bleak outskirts of Parts Unknown. I think I need some extra tp b/c you guys are the sh!t! Look forward to the pod every week and am working my way through your old episodes. KEEP IT UP!

  • Jeanie

    Jeanie Missoula, MT

    I drive by the field where Shasta's house used to be quite often on my way to visit family in Spokane. Gives me chills every time. I read that he had actually been driving around my neighborhood in Missoula as well, searching for kids before this happened. Thanks for covering this story. It is still very fresh in everyone's mind around here.

    I drive by the field where Shasta's house used to be quite often on my way to visit family in Spokane. Gives me chills every time. I read that he had actually been driving around my neighborhood in Missoula as well, searching for kids before this happened. Thanks for covering this story. It is still very fresh in everyone's mind around here.

  • J

    J FL

    I'm against the death penalty, but Joseph Duncan is the reason I say it should never be abolished. He's too dangerous to live.

    I'm against the death penalty, but Joseph Duncan is the reason I say it should never be abolished. He's too dangerous to live.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Word J!

    Word J!

  • Louise

    Louise Rochester Hills, MI

    This is the only crime I heard about from you guys that I regret learning about. After listening to your show I did my usual googling and am horrified by the specifics of the crime. I'm not going to do that again. I really appreciate that you guys don't typically give us all the gory details. Love the show!

    This is the only crime I heard about from you guys that I regret learning about. After listening to your show I did my usual googling and am horrified by the specifics of the crime. I'm not going to do that again. I really appreciate that you guys don't typically give us all the gory details. Love the show!

  • Rebecca

    Rebecca North Dakota

    Hello! I have recently discovered your podcast and love your show. I was a student at NDSU in Fargo when JD3 started school there. Your statement about he went to school "for computer" was about all we were told. We knew there was a high level sex offender and that he was going for a degree in computer technology. More than that we were not given any information, not his name, not his exact crimes, etc. As he was one of the first, they didn't know exactly how to relay and what to relay to the general public. I didn't put the pieces together until I listened to this show. Then I had a memory flash of sitting in a hall and being told about a high risk sex offender and frustrated that no one would tell us anything about him.

    Hello!
    I have recently discovered your podcast and love your show. I was a student at NDSU in Fargo when JD3 started school there. Your statement about he went to school "for computer" was about all we were told. We knew there was a high level sex offender and that he was going for a degree in computer technology. More than that we were not given any information, not his name, not his exact crimes, etc. As he was one of the first, they didn't know exactly how to relay and what to relay to the general public. I didn't put the pieces together until I listened to this show. Then I had a memory flash of sitting in a hall and being told about a high risk sex offender and frustrated that no one would tell us anything about him.

  • Annie

    Annie Boston

    The one thing that I kept thinking when listening to this case is sadly not a new thought. People guilty of acts of pedophilia should be locked up for life. Period. There is no rehabilitation, there is no cure. Sexual violence against children should be an automatic life sentence, no parole, and no TV or internet while you're in prison. There are hardworking law abiding citizens with no tv and internet, let's stop providing those luxuries to criminals. Great job as always, covering this very tragic case.

    The one thing that I kept thinking when listening to this case is sadly not a new thought. People guilty of acts of pedophilia should be locked up for life. Period. There is no rehabilitation, there is no cure. Sexual violence against children should be an automatic life sentence, no parole, and no TV or internet while you're in prison. There are hardworking law abiding citizens with no tv and internet, let's stop providing those luxuries to criminals.
    Great job as always, covering this very tragic case.

  • Mark

    Mark Austin

    No doubt that this was the most difficult episode to listen to so far. This man is pure evil. As you go through his background you see so many telling signs that this guy was destined to perpetrate atrocities. I am not a vengeful or angry person, but I so am looking forward to the day this guy takes the needle. I only wish he was confined in a state prison, where he would not be getting the same kind of protection from his fellow inmates that comes with federal incarceration. Eventually we as a nation are going to have to understand that the problems these people have cannot be fixed and tougher laws and sentencings are needed.

    No doubt that this was the most difficult episode to listen to so far. This man is pure evil. As you go through his background you see so many telling signs that this guy was destined to perpetrate atrocities. I am not a vengeful or angry person, but I so am looking forward to the day this guy takes the needle. I only wish he was confined in a state prison, where he would not be getting the same kind of protection from his fellow inmates that comes with federal incarceration. Eventually we as a nation are going to have to understand that the problems these people have cannot be fixed and tougher laws and sentencings are needed.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    I agree with you Mark- Nic

    I agree with you Mark- Nic

  • Jennifer

    Jennifer

    I am binging on all of your episodes! I love you guys and am sad I am almost getting caught up with the episodes. I have 2 children, young children and I believe as some of the others have stated there is no rehabilitation for sexual offenders. You guys help me think of ways to protect my children. You have also taught me if you see something say something. I have actually picked up some amazing tips from listening to your podcast! Thank you so much for all you guys do, it really is a service to families, children, and victims of crime and other things! I want to order a shirt soon and I plan on it!

    I am binging on all of your episodes! I love you guys and am sad I am almost getting caught up with the episodes. I have 2 children, young children and I believe as some of the others have stated there is no rehabilitation for sexual offenders. You guys help me think of ways to protect my children. You have also taught me if you see something say something. I have actually picked up some amazing tips from listening to your podcast! Thank you so much for all you guys do, it really is a service to families, children, and victims of crime and other things! I want to order a shirt soon and I plan on it!

  • Pokwok

    Pokwok Montreal

    Just a comment - I think the Captain is a little misguided on this one when they talk about "recreational" meth use. Contrary to popular belief, I would venture to say that actually the vast majority of people who have done or sometimes do methamphetamine don't do it every day. I get that it's a hard drug, but unlike say heroin (something I've been addicted to on and off for a long time), methamphetamine doesn't develop hardcore dependencies as quickly or as severely as opiates do. Yes, a lot of people do become addicted and it does start to run their lives, but there actually are a lot of somewhat "white trash" people who 'casually' do meth, even crystal meth. We don't even know that this family was doing crystal meth (or do we?) we just know that methamphetamine was found in their system. There are speed pills that people ingest that contain methamphetamine - speed pills that are cheap and available, and don't necessarily have the same stigma as smoking or shooting crystal methamphetamine does. And it'll be a hardcore speed high, but lots and lots of people just pop speed pills on the weekend, and even if it was crystal meth, there are people who will smoke or snort crystal meth on the weekend as well. It actually takes a pretty big toll on a person and the high lasts an exceptionally long time, and I think it's very rare that people immediately start doing it every day - even people who become heavily dependent on it start off by doing it once a month, then once a week, then maybe once every couple of days. It's entirely possible that they bought speed pills totally unaware that they contained methamphetamine -- they might have thought it was just regular amphetamines, and many street speed pills simply are mostly amphetamines with a dash of methamphetamine in there to make it stronger, and the people buying those pills just think they are buying regular speed pills. I've obtained pressed speed pills that were being sold 10$ each that were mostly methamphetamine. Lots and lots of people do speed pills on an occasional basis. Seeing as this couple had a family to take care of, that they went to work, that they clearly had their life together in a lot of respects, it's not totally unbelievable to me that they could take speed and/or meth every now and again and not have it be this massive part of their lives the way an addiction is. D.A.R.E. and the like kind of perpetuate a false idea about what hard drug use is like for most people. Don't get me wrong - I am acutely aware of the impact drug addiction can have on a person (I've been steeped in drug addiction and drug addicts for a long time), but it is a bit of a myth that all hard drugs are a one-way ticket to hopeless addiction the minute you indulge in them. That's not true, and if it were true, a lot less people would be doing them. The whole reason that people get addicted unintentionally is because they see and know people who use them casually -- the way people who don't use hard drugs might use alcohol or marijuana. It's even true about opiates (heroin, morphine, fentanyl, etc) to a certain extent, although I would say that if they found opioids in their systems that it would be far more likely that they were struggling with an addiction 'problem', even if they managed to keep it a secret from the people in their lives. But simply finding methamphetamine in their system does not mean they were caught up in the drug world any more than simply buying some speed now and again to get high on the weekend with. It's a geographical thing as well - some places in the country are more likely to have communities were meth is available and cheap, and in those places it's not uncommon for "recreational" drug users to indulge in meth. Hell, out of the 'big bad' hard drugs, like say; crack, cocaine, heroin, meth, PCP, alcohol, benzos -- meth is among the ones that have the most amount of 'casual' users relative to how many of the users are outright addicted and dependent. As someone who has seen and done an inordinate amount of drugs, I think it would surprise most people to find out that alcohol is among the most destructive and addiction-prone. What I mean by that is that although meth is probably slightly more addictive than alcohol, it's not even close to as different as people think. An alcohol addict is just as destitute and just as caught up in the addiction cycle as a meth addict is in a lot of ways, and while I don't have any empirical stats on it (nobody really does, and projections and approximations about hard drug use are educated guesses at best, people don't usually include their drug habit in the census form), I'd venture to say that the ratio between people who casually use alcohol and full-on alcoholics is pretty similar to the ratio of people who casually use methamphetamine and are full-on meth addicts.

    Just a comment - I think the Captain is a little misguided on this one when they talk about "recreational" meth use. Contrary to popular belief, I would venture to say that actually the vast majority of people who have done or sometimes do methamphetamine don't do it every day. I get that it's a hard drug, but unlike say heroin (something I've been addicted to on and off for a long time), methamphetamine doesn't develop hardcore dependencies as quickly or as severely as opiates do. Yes, a lot of people do become addicted and it does start to run their lives, but there actually are a lot of somewhat "white trash" people who 'casually' do meth, even crystal meth. We don't even know that this family was doing crystal meth (or do we?) we just know that methamphetamine was found in their system. There are speed pills that people ingest that contain methamphetamine - speed pills that are cheap and available, and don't necessarily have the same stigma as smoking or shooting crystal methamphetamine does. And it'll be a hardcore speed high, but lots and lots of people just pop speed pills on the weekend, and even if it was crystal meth, there are people who will smoke or snort crystal meth on the weekend as well. It actually takes a pretty big toll on a person and the high lasts an exceptionally long time, and I think it's very rare that people immediately start doing it every day - even people who become heavily dependent on it start off by doing it once a month, then once a week, then maybe once every couple of days. It's entirely possible that they bought speed pills totally unaware that they contained methamphetamine -- they might have thought it was just regular amphetamines, and many street speed pills simply are mostly amphetamines with a dash of methamphetamine in there to make it stronger, and the people buying those pills just think they are buying regular speed pills. I've obtained pressed speed pills that were being sold 10$ each that were mostly methamphetamine. Lots and lots of people do speed pills on an occasional basis. Seeing as this couple had a family to take care of, that they went to work, that they clearly had their life together in a lot of respects, it's not totally unbelievable to me that they could take speed and/or meth every now and again and not have it be this massive part of their lives the way an addiction is.

    D.A.R.E. and the like kind of perpetuate a false idea about what hard drug use is like for most people. Don't get me wrong - I am acutely aware of the impact drug addiction can have on a person (I've been steeped in drug addiction and drug addicts for a long time), but it is a bit of a myth that all hard drugs are a one-way ticket to hopeless addiction the minute you indulge in them. That's not true, and if it were true, a lot less people would be doing them. The whole reason that people get addicted unintentionally is because they see and know people who use them casually -- the way people who don't use hard drugs might use alcohol or marijuana. It's even true about opiates (heroin, morphine, fentanyl, etc) to a certain extent, although I would say that if they found opioids in their systems that it would be far more likely that they were struggling with an addiction 'problem', even if they managed to keep it a secret from the people in their lives. But simply finding methamphetamine in their system does not mean they were caught up in the drug world any more than simply buying some speed now and again to get high on the weekend with. It's a geographical thing as well - some places in the country are more likely to have communities were meth is available and cheap, and in those places it's not uncommon for "recreational" drug users to indulge in meth. Hell, out of the 'big bad' hard drugs, like say; crack, cocaine, heroin, meth, PCP, alcohol, benzos -- meth is among the ones that have the most amount of 'casual' users relative to how many of the users are outright addicted and dependent. As someone who has seen and done an inordinate amount of drugs, I think it would surprise most people to find out that alcohol is among the most destructive and addiction-prone. What I mean by that is that although meth is probably slightly more addictive than alcohol, it's not even close to as different as people think. An alcohol addict is just as destitute and just as caught up in the addiction cycle as a meth addict is in a lot of ways, and while I don't have any empirical stats on it (nobody really does, and projections and approximations about hard drug use are educated guesses at best, people don't usually include their drug habit in the census form), I'd venture to say that the ratio between people who casually use alcohol and full-on alcoholics is pretty similar to the ratio of people who casually use methamphetamine and are full-on meth addicts.

  • NicC

    NicC UK

    D we know whether JD3 was a drug user? You said there were no drugs found at the house, i’m assuming there were no signs of drug use either? Could the drugs have been brought by JD3 and he forced the parents to take them in order to help subdue them? I don’t know what effect meth has on a person but for there to be no rumours of drug use, no signs of drugs use etc seems to suggest the possibility that he brought them. It’s clear that the attacks and murders weren’t over quickly as Shasta said that her brother Slade went outside and then back into the house at one point and the mother was told to call Shasta & Dylan into the room, it’s possible JD3 was taking the drugs at the time and thought it would be funny to force his victims to? Was Slade ever given toxicology tests as well?

    D we know whether JD3 was a drug user? You said there were no drugs found at the house, i’m assuming there were no signs of drug use either?

    Could the drugs have been brought by JD3 and he forced the parents to take them in order to help subdue them? I don’t know what effect meth has on a person but for there to be no rumours of drug use, no signs of drugs use etc seems to suggest the possibility that he brought them.

    It’s clear that the attacks and murders weren’t over quickly as Shasta said that her brother Slade went outside and then back into the house at one point and the mother was told to call Shasta & Dylan into the room, it’s possible JD3 was taking the drugs at the time and thought it would be funny to force his victims to?

    Was Slade ever given toxicology tests as well?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Nic - The two adult victims were casual meth users from everything that I have seen. JD3 was not using/doing drugs as far as I can tell and I looked into him quite a bit. He is addicted to molesting/raping and sometimes killing children 100%! The murders did go down very similar to how Shasta described and JD3 has described everything in detail several times... I do not like reading his version for many reasons - he like most serials blames the victims and he thinks that his killing the family is some great achievement that we all should observe and study. None of that really matters now - we know who did it, generally what happened and he is locked up and recently lost an appeal. He is sentenced to death twice with a third to be reviewed by the Supreme Court. I will throw a garage party when they execute him. Cheers Nic

    Hi Nic - The two adult victims were casual meth users from everything that I have seen. JD3 was not using/doing drugs as far as I can tell and I looked into him quite a bit. He is addicted to molesting/raping and sometimes killing children 100%! The murders did go down very similar to how Shasta described and JD3 has described everything in detail several times... I do not like reading his version for many reasons - he like most serials blames the victims and he thinks that his killing the family is some great achievement that we all should observe and study. None of that really matters now - we know who did it, generally what happened and he is locked up and recently lost an appeal. He is sentenced to death twice with a third to be reviewed by the Supreme Court. I will throw a garage party when they execute him.
    Cheers Nic

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