The Rawlins Rodeo Murders /// 274 /// 275

11 comments

  • LouLouLeRoux

    LouLouLeRoux Toronto

    Follow-up to my other comment, the audio returns at 13:43 so you lose a minute. All seems good now.

    Follow-up to my other comment, the audio returns at 13:43 so you lose a minute. All seems good now.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Yes thank you for letting us know. It was a glitch that must have occurred during the Part of production. The Captain was awesome and drove to the garage late last night and fixed it. Cheers Nic

    Yes thank you for letting us know. It was a glitch that must have occurred during the Part of production. The Captain was awesome and drove to the garage late last night and fixed it.
    Cheers Nic

  • Emily

    Emily MD

    WILD episode

    WILD episode

  • Shannon

    Shannon Syracuse

    you mentioned one of victims had full set of dentures and that she was adopted. Amish children can end up with dentures. maybe she was Amish and adopted? That would explain why there were minimal records for her.

    you mentioned one of victims had full set of dentures and that she was adopted. Amish children can end up with dentures. maybe she was Amish and adopted? That would explain why there were minimal records for her.

  • Tammy

    Tammy Miami

    Episodes are getting worse ,sad but true

    Episodes are getting worse ,sad but true

  • Sara the Red

    Sara the Red

    I actually work in Rawlins (not live here, Rawlins is a hole, I live an hour away). My mother grew up in the area, and graduated from Rawlins High School--and knew Carlene Brown and Christy Gross. They weren't friends--they ran in different circles--but she knew them. Her comment when I mentioned the case to her last night at dinner was that they all knew about those two going missing, but so far as she could tell (she had graduated that year, and was off at college in Laramie by this point) the local authorities kept the other two going missing (particularly Debra) VERY quiet, because they didn't want to freak people, especially kids and/or tourists, out. Also--Rawlins is actually a very, VERY small town, for all that it's one of Wyoming's 'bigger' towns. Even today. (Today, the entire state only has about 600k people in it, it was undoubtedly fewer in the 1970s.) And though hitchhiking was fairly common, the State penitentiary is located in Rawlins...and folks around here have always been a little more wary about giving rides to strangers than elsewhere. On the other hand...hitchhiking was the only way to get to, say, Casper if you didn't own a car, so it's not impossible that Carlene and Christy would have given a ride to a stranger if he was persuasive enough. My mother also said that the reports they all heard about the car was not that it was found either in Worland OR a van at the rodeo grounds, but that their car had been found at the Wagonhound rest stop, which is between Rawlins and Laramie (heading east), and which has been closed for as long as anyone can remember. (Also makes sense given where Christy was left--it's all off of I-80, and if someone wanted to, say, head south towards Oklahoma, then I-80 east to Denver, then I-25 south would be one of the likely routes.) And as for the conflicting reports about where Christy's body was found--north of Sinclair has to be the correct one, because there are no access roads south of Sinclair. However, heading north there are several county roads--as well as access to the Seminoe and Pathfinder reservoirs. And local lore, again per my mother, is that most folks figured Carlene had probably been dumped in Seminoe. And even if she wasn't...well, it's hard to describe just how *empty* it is out here unless you've visited the area. There's literally millions of places you could dump a body and no one would ever find it, or would not find it for decades. A case about ten years ago, they found the body quickly because the cops went to the BLM office, and asked the geologist there for likely mines, since the suspect had permits for several, and the geologist pointed them to the right one. Because the killer wasn't very bright and dumped his victim in one of his own mine shafts. But there are hundreds, if not thousands of long-abandoned mine shafts all over certain parts of the countryside--and that's just mine shafts. My previous job took me out into some pretty empty country, and the fact is you wouldn't even have to get very far off the interstate/state highways/county roads to find an area so empty and so full of little nooks and crannies that you could easily hide a body there forever.

    I actually work in Rawlins (not live here, Rawlins is a hole, I live an hour away). My mother grew up in the area, and graduated from Rawlins High School--and knew Carlene Brown and Christy Gross. They weren't friends--they ran in different circles--but she knew them. Her comment when I mentioned the case to her last night at dinner was that they all knew about those two going missing, but so far as she could tell (she had graduated that year, and was off at college in Laramie by this point) the local authorities kept the other two going missing (particularly Debra) VERY quiet, because they didn't want to freak people, especially kids and/or tourists, out.

    Also--Rawlins is actually a very, VERY small town, for all that it's one of Wyoming's 'bigger' towns. Even today. (Today, the entire state only has about 600k people in it, it was undoubtedly fewer in the 1970s.) And though hitchhiking was fairly common, the State penitentiary is located in Rawlins...and folks around here have always been a little more wary about giving rides to strangers than elsewhere. On the other hand...hitchhiking was the only way to get to, say, Casper if you didn't own a car, so it's not impossible that Carlene and Christy would have given a ride to a stranger if he was persuasive enough. My mother also said that the reports they all heard about the car was not that it was found either in Worland OR a van at the rodeo grounds, but that their car had been found at the Wagonhound rest stop, which is between Rawlins and Laramie (heading east), and which has been closed for as long as anyone can remember. (Also makes sense given where Christy was left--it's all off of I-80, and if someone wanted to, say, head south towards Oklahoma, then I-80 east to Denver, then I-25 south would be one of the likely routes.) And as for the conflicting reports about where Christy's body was found--north of Sinclair has to be the correct one, because there are no access roads south of Sinclair. However, heading north there are several county roads--as well as access to the Seminoe and Pathfinder reservoirs. And local lore, again per my mother, is that most folks figured Carlene had probably been dumped in Seminoe. And even if she wasn't...well, it's hard to describe just how *empty* it is out here unless you've visited the area. There's literally millions of places you could dump a body and no one would ever find it, or would not find it for decades. A case about ten years ago, they found the body quickly because the cops went to the BLM office, and asked the geologist there for likely mines, since the suspect had permits for several, and the geologist pointed them to the right one. Because the killer wasn't very bright and dumped his victim in one of his own mine shafts. But there are hundreds, if not thousands of long-abandoned mine shafts all over certain parts of the countryside--and that's just mine shafts. My previous job took me out into some pretty empty country, and the fact is you wouldn't even have to get very far off the interstate/state highways/county roads to find an area so empty and so full of little nooks and crannies that you could easily hide a body there forever.

  • Tammy

    Tammy halifax

    crap episode, again. seems 3 outa 4 are bad. will this caca continue?

    crap episode, again. seems 3 outa 4 are bad. will this caca continue?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Shannon - Carlene was adopted and Debra had the dentures. Please read Sara the Red’s post great stuff. Cheers Nic - Tammy we have plenty more episodes :-)

    Hi Shannon - Carlene was adopted and Debra had the dentures. Please read Sara the Red’s post great stuff.
    Cheers Nic

    - Tammy we have plenty more episodes :-)

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    @Tammy there are other FREE shows to listen to out there. We hope you will stick around and Continue to listen. We put a lot into each show and try to make them as informative and entertaining as possible. Personally I thought episode 1 of the Rawlins Rodeo Murders was fantastic. I know I ranted a lot about the lack of information on Debrah's case but it infuriated me. You should have seen me stomping around my house when doing research yelling "I GUESS IF YOU'RE A LITTLE KID AND YOU GO MISSING IN WYOMING IN THE 70'S NO ONE GIVES A SHIT!" I'm a great hunter of info on these cases and if I can't find ANYTHING on your case and its less than 50's old in the U.S. something very strange and fishy is going on there. Stick around Tammy we have some great stuff on tap for 2019! Cheers Nic

    @Tammy there are other FREE shows to listen to out there. We hope you will stick around and Continue to listen. We put a lot into each show and try to make them as informative and entertaining as possible. Personally I thought episode 1 of the Rawlins Rodeo Murders was fantastic. I know I ranted a lot about the lack of information on Debrah's case but it infuriated me. You should have seen me stomping around my house when doing research yelling "I GUESS IF YOU'RE A LITTLE KID AND YOU GO MISSING IN WYOMING IN THE 70'S NO ONE GIVES A SHIT!" I'm a great hunter of info on these cases and if I can't find ANYTHING on your case and its less than 50's old in the U.S. something very strange and fishy is going on there.
    Stick around Tammy we have some great stuff on tap for 2019!
    Cheers Nic

  • Joseph R. Schmidt

    Joseph R. Schmidt New York, USA

    https://coldcaseinformationcenter.wordpress.com/2018/12/31/deborah-rae-meyer/ This is my blog site. I wrote about Deborahs case a while ago. I hope this can shed light on the so little information available on her case.

    https://coldcaseinformationcenter.wordpress.com/2018/12/31/deborah-rae-meyer/

    This is my blog site. I wrote about Deborahs case a while ago. I hope this can shed light on the so little information available on her case.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you for this Joseph. I was not able to find this when researching these cases for the show. The best I could find was some of the old newspaper articles. Thanks again -Cheers Nic

    Thank you for this Joseph. I was not able to find this when researching these cases for the show. The best I could find was some of the old newspaper articles.
    Thanks again -Cheers Nic

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