West Mesa Body Pit ////// 50 

West Mesa Body Pit ////// 50 

TrueCrimeGarage.com 

In 2009 a woman walking her dog discovered a human bone on the city of Albuquerque's West Mesa. It would take over 2 months for searchers to comb the nearly 100 acre patch of barren desert. They found the bodies of 11 women and a fetus. Police at times have said they have had as many as 20 suspects and as little as a handful. They have yet to name an "official suspect." Tonight in the garage we have beer oh yeah and we have suspects too and they are pretty official. So stop by for a chat with the Captain and Nic, cheers! 

Beer of the week - Molotov Cocktail Heavy by Evil Twin Brewing 
Garage Grade - 4 1/2 out of 5 bottle caps

27 comments

  • Tim

    Tim Chino Hills, Ca

    Great episode guys and a very interesting case. I look forward to looking into it deeper after I listen a couple of more times. However, I wanted to make a few comments on the legalization/decriminalization questions related to prostitution. I am a pretty libertarian guy and would support massive reductions in governments intrusion into our lives, but some distinctions have to be made between liberties. For example, decriminalizing the personal use of marijuana is an example of giving someone the freedom to do what they want with their own body. As long as the person does not drive a car or operate equipment at work under the influence, they are only impacting themselves. At this point one should ask themselves how libertarian are you. Do you believe that the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) should exist? If you say yes, then you should not be for decriminalization of prostitution. Unlike exercising your liberty to subject your body to the effects of marijuana, selling your body to someone subjects not only you to the effects of their body, but it also subjects them to the effects of yours, meaning you are both exposed to any diseases, bacteria, viruses, or toxins in the other individual’s system. Both individuals then go on to expose other individuals such as spouses, casual partners, and other prostitutes, not mentioning some of the things that are spread even easier. Therefore, unlike the personal use of marijuana, prostitution is a public health concern and cannot just be decriminalized without creating harmful societal effects. So the next logical leap would be legalization and regulation. However, this argument almost immediately collapses in on itself, because many of the people engaging in prostitution are doing so because they have addictions that put them in a high risk category. Public health officials would have to deny these high risk individual access to authorized prostitution, meaning that they would have to resort to a black market trade. This would also be known as illegal prostitution or right back to where we started from. Another thing to note is that prostitution is actually legal in part of Nevada under regulated guidelines. It is expensive, which is why illegal prostitution still occurs in cities like Las Vegas. It is cool to believe that there are a bunch of “Happy Hookers” out there that are working their way through college while driving a Corvette. And I am sure there are some, but the reality is that those are likely the lottery winners of that trade. Society likes glamorize prostitution using terms like “The Girl Friend Experience”, but the reality is men aren’t going to prostitutes to do what they would do with their girlfriend. Any person considering engaging in prostitution should be clear that the John’s are buying a product they intend to use. And any listener to this show, should know that too many times the women and men out there who engaged in this behavior won a different kind of lottery, suffering at the hands of monsters. Up here on my soap box, I would love to declare an answer to this problem, but I cannot, because there is no easy answer. However, I believe that prostitution remaining illegal is an important part of the answer. Rather than tearing down stigmas surrounding it, because a few people make a good living at it with no ill effects, people should be educated to the reality. And that is that more times than not John’s are intentionally or unintentionally exploiting individuals in vulnerable positions forced to engage in prostitution at the hands of pimps or addictions. Working on the punishment and/or rehabilitation of the prostitutes and John’s is likely a better place to start. Tim

    Great episode guys and a very interesting case. I look forward to looking into it deeper after I listen a couple of more times.

    However, I wanted to make a few comments on the legalization/decriminalization questions related to prostitution. I am a pretty libertarian guy and would support massive reductions in governments intrusion into our lives, but some distinctions have to be made between liberties. For example, decriminalizing the personal use of marijuana is an example of giving someone the freedom to do what they want with their own body. As long as the person does not drive a car or operate equipment at work under the influence, they are only impacting themselves.

    At this point one should ask themselves how libertarian are you. Do you believe that the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) should exist? If you say yes, then you should not be for decriminalization of prostitution.
    Unlike exercising your liberty to subject your body to the effects of marijuana, selling your body to someone subjects not only you to the effects of their body, but it also subjects them to the effects of yours, meaning you are both exposed to any diseases, bacteria, viruses, or toxins in the other individual’s system. Both individuals then go on to expose other individuals such as spouses, casual partners, and other prostitutes, not mentioning some of the things that are spread even easier. Therefore, unlike the personal use of marijuana, prostitution is a public health concern and cannot just be decriminalized without creating harmful societal effects.

    So the next logical leap would be legalization and regulation. However, this argument almost immediately collapses in on itself, because many of the people engaging in prostitution are doing so because they have addictions that put them in a high risk category. Public health officials would have to deny these high risk individual access to authorized prostitution, meaning that they would have to resort to a black market trade. This would also be known as illegal prostitution or right back to where we started from.

    Another thing to note is that prostitution is actually legal in part of Nevada under regulated guidelines. It is expensive, which is why illegal prostitution still occurs in cities like Las Vegas.

    It is cool to believe that there are a bunch of “Happy Hookers” out there that are working their way through college while driving a Corvette. And I am sure there are some, but the reality is that those are likely the lottery winners of that trade. Society likes glamorize prostitution using terms like “The Girl Friend Experience”, but the reality is men aren’t going to prostitutes to do what they would do with their girlfriend. Any person considering engaging in prostitution should be clear that the John’s are buying a product they intend to use. And any listener to this show, should know that too many times the women and men out there who engaged in this behavior won a different kind of lottery, suffering at the hands of monsters.

    Up here on my soap box, I would love to declare an answer to this problem, but I cannot, because there is no easy answer. However, I believe that prostitution remaining illegal is an important part of the answer. Rather than tearing down stigmas surrounding it, because a few people make a good living at it with no ill effects, people should be educated to the reality. And that is that more times than not John’s are intentionally or unintentionally exploiting individuals in vulnerable positions forced to engage in prostitution at the hands of pimps or addictions.

    Working on the punishment and/or rehabilitation of the prostitutes and John’s is likely a better place to start.

    Tim

  • Kennardo

    Kennardo Albuquerque

    In Albuquerque, there is a religious group that is always out protesting sin and sinners. You can find them outside the abortion clinics holding signs with pictures of aborted fetuses. They go to the University with bull horns and yell things like, "you are all going to hell, if you don't change your evil ways..." And just last week, I saw them at a busy intersection as we were going to the State Fair, yelling similar words of fire and brimstone. They are not your normal right wing Christians, these guys and gals are truly radical... by the way, i consider myself right wing so i am not trying to sound disrespectful. Could it be possible that someone associated with this group would take it upon themselves to punish the "wicked"? Some of these guys seem a little unhinged on the level of the Faith Militant. Just a thought....

    In Albuquerque, there is a religious group that is always out protesting sin and sinners. You can find them outside the abortion clinics holding signs with pictures of aborted fetuses. They go to the University with bull horns and yell things like, "you are all going to hell, if you don't change your evil ways..." And just last week, I saw them at a busy intersection as we were going to the State Fair, yelling similar words of fire and brimstone. They are not your normal right wing Christians, these guys and gals are truly radical... by the way, i consider myself right wing so i am not trying to sound disrespectful.

    Could it be possible that someone associated with this group would take it upon themselves to punish the "wicked"? Some of these guys seem a little unhinged on the level of the Faith Militant.

    Just a thought....

  • Jeff

    Jeff Indiana

    The guy on the recordings sounds like he has a Chicago/Wisconsin accent.

    The guy on the recordings sounds like he has a Chicago/Wisconsin accent.

  • THE mailman

    THE mailman Portland

    Hey guys. Good episode. I heard another podcast recently about this case and it does shine light on a couple things, including how they used the satellite images to get a timeline of the Mesa. Check it out https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/casefile-true-crime/id998568017?mt=2&i=373443694 Keep up the good work!

    Hey guys. Good episode. I heard another podcast recently about this case and it does shine light on a couple things, including how they used the satellite images to get a timeline of the Mesa. Check it out https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/casefile-true-crime/id998568017?mt=2&i=373443694

    Keep up the good work!

  • Beth

    Beth Cincinnati

    The voices on the recordings are eerie. I wish they were clearer, but there's definitely a geographical similarity at the very least. Not western for sure. Great episode

    The voices on the recordings are eerie. I wish they were clearer, but there's definitely a geographical similarity at the very least. Not western for sure.

    Great episode

  • Phil

    Phil Manteca CA

    I just binge listened to the show. This west Mesa case reminded me of a local case here in CA that i heard about a few years ago. The speed freak killers. They had a dump site for their victims as well. I'd be interested to hear the whole story from you guys.

    I just binge listened to the show. This west Mesa case reminded me of a local case here in CA that i heard about a few years ago. The speed freak killers. They had a dump site for their victims as well. I'd be interested to hear the whole story from you guys.

  • shutuptim

    shutuptim dog train, tn

    "However, I wanted to make a few comments on the legalization/decriminalization questions related to prostitution. I am a pretty libertarian guy and would support massive reductions in governments intrusion into our lives, but some distinctions have to be made between liberties. For example, decriminalizing the personal use of marijuana is an example of giving someone the freedom to do what they want with their own body. As long as the person does not drive a car or operate equipment at work under the influence, they are only impacting themselves." Roger the,seems reasonable "At this point one should ask themselves how libertarian are you. Do you believe that the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) should exist? If you say yes, then you should not be for decriminalization of prostitution. Unlike exercising your liberty to subject your body to the effects of marijuana, selling your body to someone subjects not only you to the effects of their body, but it also subjects them to the effects of yours, meaning you are both exposed to any diseases, bacteria, viruses, or toxins in the other individual’s system. Both individuals then go on to expose other individuals such as spouses, casual partners, and other prostitutes, not mentioning some of the things that are spread even easier. Therefore, unlike the personal use of marijuana, prostitution is a public health concern and cannot just be decriminalized without creating harmful societal effects." You get all the same stuff with just plain old sex. "So the next logical leap would be legalization and regulation. However, this argument almost immediately collapses in on itself, because many of the people engaging in prostitution are doing so because they have addictions that put them in a high risk category. Public health officials would have to deny these high risk individual access to authorized prostitution, meaning that they would have to resort to a black market trade. This would also be known as illegal prostitution or right back to where we started from." Your argument is that legal prostitution would be illegal anyway. "Another thing to note is that prostitution is actually legal in part of Nevada under regulated guidelines. It is expensive, which is why illegal prostitution still occurs in cities like Las Vegas." It's inconvenient. It's over regulated, Explain the difference between that and a massage. It's the part that gets rubbed, "It is cool to believe that there are a bunch of “Happy Hookers” out there that are working their way through college while driving a Corvette. And I am sure there are some, but the reality is that those are likely the lottery winners of that trade. Society likes glamorize prostitution using terms like “The Girl Friend Experience”, but the reality is men aren’t going to prostitutes to do what they would do with their girlfriend. Any person considering engaging in prostitution should be clear that the John’s are buying a product they intend to use. And any listener to this show, should know that too many times the women and men out there who engaged in this behavior won a different kind of lottery, suffering at the hands of monsters." Pretty sure you have some problems. "Up here on my soap box, I would love to declare an answer to this problem, but I cannot, because there is no easy answer. However, I believe that prostitution remaining illegal is an important part of the answer. Rather than tearing down stigmas surrounding it, because a few people make a good living at it with no ill effects, people should be educated to the reality. And that is that more times than not John’s are intentionally or unintentionally exploiting individuals in vulnerable positions forced to engage in prostitution at the hands of pimps or addictions." Jeebus, you know a lot about this stuff. "Working on the punishment and/or rehabilitation of the prostitutes and John’s is likely a better place to start." The idea is that punishment isn't really a solution. Punishment for doing nothing wrong is what the bad man did to you. Don't project.

    "However, I wanted to make a few comments on the legalization/decriminalization questions related to prostitution. I am a pretty libertarian guy and would support massive reductions in governments intrusion into our lives, but some distinctions have to be made between liberties. For example, decriminalizing the personal use of marijuana is an example of giving someone the freedom to do what they want with their own body. As long as the person does not drive a car or operate equipment at work under the influence, they are only impacting themselves."

    Roger the,seems reasonable

    "At this point one should ask themselves how libertarian are you. Do you believe that the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) should exist? If you say yes, then you should not be for decriminalization of prostitution.
    Unlike exercising your liberty to subject your body to the effects of marijuana, selling your body to someone subjects not only you to the effects of their body, but it also subjects them to the effects of yours, meaning you are both exposed to any diseases, bacteria, viruses, or toxins in the other individual’s system. Both individuals then go on to expose other individuals such as spouses, casual partners, and other prostitutes, not mentioning some of the things that are spread even easier. Therefore, unlike the personal use of marijuana, prostitution is a public health concern and cannot just be decriminalized without creating harmful societal effects."

    You get all the same stuff with just plain old sex.

    "So the next logical leap would be legalization and regulation. However, this argument almost immediately collapses in on itself, because many of the people engaging in prostitution are doing so because they have addictions that put them in a high risk category. Public health officials would have to deny these high risk individual access to authorized prostitution, meaning that they would have to resort to a black market trade. This would also be known as illegal prostitution or right back to where we started from."

    Your argument is that legal prostitution would be illegal anyway.

    "Another thing to note is that prostitution is actually legal in part of Nevada under regulated guidelines. It is expensive, which is why illegal prostitution still occurs in cities like Las Vegas."

    It's inconvenient. It's over regulated, Explain the difference between that and a massage. It's the part that gets rubbed,

    "It is cool to believe that there are a bunch of “Happy Hookers” out there that are working their way through college while driving a Corvette. And I am sure there are some, but the reality is that those are likely the lottery winners of that trade. Society likes glamorize prostitution using terms like “The Girl Friend Experience”, but the reality is men aren’t going to prostitutes to do what they would do with their girlfriend. Any person considering engaging in prostitution should be clear that the John’s are buying a product they intend to use. And any listener to this show, should know that too many times the women and men out there who engaged in this behavior won a different kind of lottery, suffering at the hands of monsters."

    Pretty sure you have some problems.

    "Up here on my soap box, I would love to declare an answer to this problem, but I cannot, because there is no easy answer. However, I believe that prostitution remaining illegal is an important part of the answer. Rather than tearing down stigmas surrounding it, because a few people make a good living at it with no ill effects, people should be educated to the reality. And that is that more times than not John’s are intentionally or unintentionally exploiting individuals in vulnerable positions forced to engage in prostitution at the hands of pimps or addictions."

    Jeebus, you know a lot about this stuff.

    "Working on the punishment and/or rehabilitation of the prostitutes and John’s is likely a better place to start."

    The idea is that punishment isn't really a solution. Punishment for doing nothing wrong is what the bad man did to you. Don't project.

  • Tim

    Tim Chino Hills

    Shutuptim, I graduated from school before they started teaching that insults are the foundation of a good dialog, so I have been around long enough to know a few things. The truth is that if you are willing to take full responsibility for paying a person who may have Aids or Hepatitis to have sex with you I am perfectly okay with it as long as I and my tax dollars dont have to pay for your healthcare. That is how responsibility works. I stated I am quite libertarian as lots of people do. The problem is everyone wants to be a socialist when it comes to the consequences of there actions. Good luck Tim

    Shutuptim,

    I graduated from school before they started teaching that insults are the foundation of a good dialog, so I have been around long enough to know a few things.

    The truth is that if you are willing to take full responsibility for paying a person who may have Aids or Hepatitis to have sex with you I am perfectly okay with it as long as I and my tax dollars dont have to pay for your healthcare. That is how responsibility works.

    I stated I am quite libertarian as lots of people do. The problem is everyone wants to be a socialist when it comes to the consequences of there actions.

    Good luck
    Tim

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous

    I know I'm going to get so much hate for this, but I can't not say something. I don't even feel safe using my name, which might look as cowardly, but something has to be said. If you feel like I'm jumping down your throat, I apologize, that's not my intention. It really upsets me that you both talk about decriminalizing prostitution. Just because it's legal does not mean things will go away. If you look at the red light district in Amsterdam and in Nevada, there are still problems. Women who enter this have a really hard time getting out because it's quick money that pays a lot. You both consider it a victimless crime, but what upsets me the most is that the women themselves are the victims. It saddens me that neither of you stand up that women shouldn't have to seek their bodies to make ends meet. Whether that new in prostitution, dancing, pornography, etc. The things that are legal in this stance, drugs and being assaulted, raped, it still happens. But the fact that you guys are ok with a woman numbing her mind and to be treated as an object really makes me disappointed. I'm disappointed the captain has changed his views. Now when women are arrested for prostitution, they are trying to rehabilitate them. It just blows my mind that you ignore the real underlying problem here. Debates about the death penalty and recreational drugs are one thing, but I ask you to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT debate it anymore in the podcast. It's a part of these crimes and by all means, involve what's necessary, but if I wanted to hear about something like that or debates about something today big of an issue , I'd listen yo a different podcast. It's probably pretty oblivious that I'm a female, but I the real facts are one to be looked at. It honestly caused me to not be able to pay attention for the rest of the episode. I'm not usually easily offended and I know someone will say go somewhere else or tell me to shut up if this comment is even approved at all, but I can't not say something.

    I know I'm going to get so much hate for this, but I can't not say something. I don't even feel safe using my name, which might look as cowardly, but something has to be said. If you feel like I'm jumping down your throat, I apologize, that's not my intention.

    It really upsets me that you both talk about decriminalizing prostitution. Just because it's legal does not mean things will go away. If you look at the red light district in Amsterdam and in Nevada, there are still problems. Women who enter this have a really hard time getting out because it's quick money that pays a lot. You both consider it a victimless crime, but what upsets me the most is that the women themselves are the victims. It saddens me that neither of you stand up that women shouldn't have to seek their bodies to make ends meet. Whether that new in prostitution, dancing, pornography, etc. The things that are legal in this stance, drugs and being assaulted, raped, it still happens. But the fact that you guys are ok with a woman numbing her mind and to be treated as an object really makes me disappointed. I'm disappointed the captain has changed his views. Now when women are arrested for prostitution, they are trying to rehabilitate them. It just blows my mind that you ignore the real underlying problem here. Debates about the death penalty and recreational drugs are one thing, but I ask you to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT debate it anymore in the podcast. It's a part of these crimes and by all means, involve what's necessary, but if I wanted to hear about something like that or debates about something today big of an issue , I'd listen yo a different podcast. It's probably pretty oblivious that I'm a female, but I the real facts are one to be looked at. It honestly caused me to not be able to pay attention for the rest of the episode. I'm not usually easily offended and I know someone will say go somewhere else or tell me to shut up if this comment is even approved at all, but I can't not say something.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Anonymous - you certainly present some good points. Your comments are always welcomed here. It is a very big problem all around from the men that victimized these women to the circumstances that have led some of the women to turn to this for income. Let's just agree that it is too big and too complicated of a problem for two guys in a garage to solved. Heck it might be too big and complicated for us to even understand. regardless we refuse to ignore it and we refuse to think of prostitutes as anything other than regular citizens. cheers, Nic

    Anonymous - you certainly present some good points. Your comments are always welcomed here. It is a very big problem all around from the men that victimized these women to the circumstances that have led some of the women to turn to this for income. Let's just agree that it is too big and too complicated of a problem for two guys in a garage to solved. Heck it might be too big and complicated for us to even understand. regardless we refuse to ignore it and we refuse to think of prostitutes as anything other than regular citizens.
    cheers, Nic

  • Tim

    Tim Chino Hills, Ca

    Albuquerque is an interesting town. It seems small as you look at it on a map and start to plot the locations associated with these crimes. I agree that Edwards who was last seen in Colorado could be a key to solving the case. Additionally, the association between some of the victims is intriguing, but I could easily see people working in the sex trade knowing each other by hanging around red light districts and/or local drug dealers. A key question to me is what I would refer to as “the double”. Perhaps there is an easy answer to this that I am missing, but everything I have read seems to ignore or minimize the fact that Salazar and Berela seem to have been abducted and murdered together. It is frequently noted that Berela, who was 15, had no history of prostitution. So how did the killer get a 27 year-old and a 15 year-old into a position where he could abduct them without being seen. As these ladies were cousins and coming from a family event, it seems to me that the time line right before their disappearance would be paramount. It appears from records that Salazar lived in an apartment complex not far from the park near San Mateo and Gibson which reports indicated they were leaving. This means that they were likely abducted in less than a mile stretch of busy street, at one of the businesses along the way, or at Salazar’s apartment complex. Personally, I would think police should have concentrated a lot of effort on examining the individuals that lived in that apartment complex and the immediate area around there. I would also be curious as to Berela’s involvement in drugs. I believe this important because is she was not involved in prostitution and she would not enter a car or apartment on the promise of drugs, I would imagine that she or Salazar knew the individual well enough to do so for another reason. While Montoya obviously had a gun which could accomplish the abduction of two women, a report I read indicated that teenager’s remains he was caught with when he was killed was wrapped up. If this is true, I have to wonder if any of the remains on the West Mesa were wrapped in anything. It just seems to me that if Montoya were the killer they should have been able to definitively link him to one of the victims or ruled him out by now. Even though just this week APD released new photos obtained from Montoya’s home in an effort to stimulate the case, I have trouble believing it is actually him. http://www.koat.com/news/APD-releases-images-of-women-possibly-connected-to-West-Mesa-murder-suspect/41990322 I would like to know if he had any association with the Apartment complex Salazar lived in. Tim

    Albuquerque is an interesting town. It seems small as you look at it on a map and start to plot the locations associated with these crimes. I agree that Edwards who was last seen in Colorado could be a key to solving the case. Additionally, the association between some of the victims is intriguing, but I could easily see people working in the sex trade knowing each other by hanging around red light districts and/or local drug dealers.
    A key question to me is what I would refer to as “the double”. Perhaps there is an easy answer to this that I am missing, but everything I have read seems to ignore or minimize the fact that Salazar and Berela seem to have been abducted and murdered together. It is frequently noted that Berela, who was 15, had no history of prostitution. So how did the killer get a 27 year-old and a 15 year-old into a position where he could abduct them without being seen. As these ladies were cousins and coming from a family event, it seems to me that the time line right before their disappearance would be paramount. It appears from records that Salazar lived in an apartment complex not far from the park near San Mateo and Gibson which reports indicated they were leaving. This means that they were likely abducted in less than a mile stretch of busy street, at one of the businesses along the way, or at Salazar’s apartment complex. Personally, I would think police should have concentrated a lot of effort on examining the individuals that lived in that apartment complex and the immediate area around there. I would also be curious as to Berela’s involvement in drugs. I believe this important because is she was not involved in prostitution and she would not enter a car or apartment on the promise of drugs, I would imagine that she or Salazar knew the individual well enough to do so for another reason.
    While Montoya obviously had a gun which could accomplish the abduction of two women, a report I read indicated that teenager’s remains he was caught with when he was killed was wrapped up. If this is true, I have to wonder if any of the remains on the West Mesa were wrapped in anything. It just seems to me that if Montoya were the killer they should have been able to definitively link him to one of the victims or ruled him out by now. Even though just this week APD released new photos obtained from Montoya’s home in an effort to stimulate the case, I have trouble believing it is actually him.

    http://www.koat.com/news/APD-releases-images-of-women-possibly-connected-to-West-Mesa-murder-suspect/41990322

    I would like to know if he had any association with the Apartment complex Salazar lived in.

    Tim

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous

    Hi! I just finished listening to this episode at work and thought of something that the detectives probably looked into but it wasn't mentioned at all in your podcast. Like I said, I am at work so I can't double check the names but there was one of the victims who was going to get married to a guy who was just getting out of prison. I'm sure she would have been visiting this guy while he's locked up. You have to sign in and provide information when visiting prisoners, right? I would check all the visitor logs for prisons in that area to see who this girl would have been visiting. I don't know how long they would keep the records of the visits... Anyway, that's just a thought I had while listening. :) Great show!

    Hi! I just finished listening to this episode at work and thought of something that the detectives probably looked into but it wasn't mentioned at all in your podcast. Like I said, I am at work so I can't double check the names but there was one of the victims who was going to get married to a guy who was just getting out of prison. I'm sure she would have been visiting this guy while he's locked up. You have to sign in and provide information when visiting prisoners, right? I would check all the visitor logs for prisons in that area to see who this girl would have been visiting. I don't know how long they would keep the records of the visits... Anyway, that's just a thought I had while listening. smile Great show!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Erin Thanks!!! Much love Captain

    Erin

    Thanks!!! Much love

    Captain

  • JR

    JR Texas

    Just listened to this episode, and it was great. Sadly, I hadn't heard much about this case, but it's . When I heard that detectives on the case used historical satellite imagery to determine when the bodies were buried, I became curious. So I fired up google earth and went to look at the area where the burial site was. Google earth has a feature where you can scroll through historical satellite and ariel images of a location. I marked the current known location of the burial site, and began scrolling back in time. The roads, and housing developments began disappearing as scrolled back in time. Eventually I came to a satellite image dated for March 2004, and there was nothing in the area that I had marked, except for empty desert, and a lone set of tire tracks that led out to the point that I had initially marked. I thought maybe those tracks have been there forever, but in scrolling back to an image from March 2002, there is no trace of the tracks at all. I felt a cold chill just seeing this snapshot in time, and knowing immediately what those tracks signified. Given the timelines for when detectives say these killings happened, it fits perfectly. Now if they can only find out who did it. Here are the photos for comparison http://imgur.com/a/Soj9t

    Just listened to this episode, and it was great. Sadly, I hadn't heard much about this case, but it's . When I heard that detectives on the case used historical satellite imagery to determine when the bodies were buried, I became curious. So I fired up google earth and went to look at the area where the burial site was. Google earth has a feature where you can scroll through historical satellite and ariel images of a location. I marked the current known location of the burial site, and began scrolling back in time. The roads, and housing developments began disappearing as scrolled back in time. Eventually I came to a satellite image dated for March 2004, and there was nothing in the area that I had marked, except for empty desert, and a lone set of tire tracks that led out to the point that I had initially marked. I thought maybe those tracks have been there forever, but in scrolling back to an image from March 2002, there is no trace of the tracks at all. I felt a cold chill just seeing this snapshot in time, and knowing immediately what those tracks signified. Given the timelines for when detectives say these killings happened, it fits perfectly. Now if they can only find out who did it.

    Here are the photos for comparison

    http://imgur.com/a/Soj9t

  • Debra

    Debra Alberta

    Amber from Edmonton who disappeared and was murdered. The man in the recordings is not American. He definitely has a Canadian accent. I grew up in the area where she disappeared. I listened to the recording about 3 years ago when the police played it locally. I told my sister that the voice reminds me of a guy I went to high school with. This man lives or lived in that area where Amber disappeared. I haven't seen him since 1981 but the voice was so familiar. I am not saying this is the murderer. I would highly suspect not. But I have learned people can carry dark secrets. I will call crime stoppers so they can check that person out.

    Amber from Edmonton who disappeared and was murdered. The man in the recordings is not American. He definitely has a Canadian accent. I grew up in the area where she disappeared. I listened to the recording about 3 years ago when the police played it locally. I told my sister that the voice reminds me of a guy I went to high school with. This man lives or lived in that area where Amber disappeared. I haven't seen him since 1981 but the voice was so familiar. I am not saying this is the murderer. I would highly suspect not. But I have learned people can carry dark secrets. I will call crime stoppers so they can check that person out.

  • Erica

    Erica Missouri

    In the episode you guys talked about a program in Albuquerque that aids women involved in prostitution and has the check in system for them. Do you know the name of this program? Thanks!

    In the episode you guys talked about a program in Albuquerque that aids women involved in prostitution and has the check in system for them. Do you know the name of this program? Thanks!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Erica • Missouri I will try to find the name

    Erica • Missouri

    I will try to find the name

  • Sara D

    Sara D Louisiana

    Hey y'all, I'm fairly new to the show but so far I'm loving it and loving this episode. Just brainstorming about the profile...do we know if the victims spoke Spanish fluently or not?

    Hey y'all,
    I'm fairly new to the show but so far I'm loving it and loving this episode. Just brainstorming about the profile...do we know if the victims spoke Spanish fluently or not?

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    Sara D • Louisiana i don't know if that was ever reported.

    Sara D • Louisiana

    i don't know if that was ever reported.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous Louisiana

    Ok. Just thinking if they did it'd could possibly narrow the profile down more. Even so I think this guy is probably Hispanic. Usually (in my amateur true crime research) males who are serial killers especially when sex is the most obvious motive, kill within their own race. And in my opinion he's probably posing as a John, or in the case of the girl that was not known to have been a prostitute, he probably used some kind of other ruse to lure the girl with the assumption that she could make some easy money. Again I'm just brainstorming but it's Such a scary thought that this kind of violence occurred without anyone being apprehended for it. Hopefully one day justice will be served and the families will find some closure. Much love ❤️

    Ok. Just thinking if they did it'd could possibly narrow the profile down more. Even so I think this guy is probably Hispanic. Usually (in my amateur true crime research) males who are serial killers especially when sex is the most obvious motive, kill within their own race. And in my opinion he's probably posing as a John, or in the case of the girl that was not known to have been a prostitute, he probably used some kind of other ruse to lure the girl with the assumption that she could make some easy money. Again I'm just brainstorming but it's Such a scary thought that this kind of violence occurred without anyone being apprehended for it. Hopefully one day justice will be served and the families will find some closure. Much love ❤️

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    SaraD • Louisiana Thanks for the support. much love Captain

    SaraD • Louisiana

    Thanks for the support. much love

    Captain

  • Kate Davis

    Kate Davis Portland OR

    Hello - I wanted to first say how awesome you guys are for all the time you put into the show. I listen to many podcasts during my work day, and you guys really are great!! In regards to the mesa murders...there is an FBI profile that another podcaster from. It can be heard in "Case file" episode on the mesa murders and Captain you weren't far off! Lastly, You guys mentioned that the city has a report in system for the women/men who are working the streets.... I have a theory... (armchair detective hat on) Could the killer be someone who was working with the program???? Could that be how the girls knew each other? And how the killer had access to them??? Similar to Ted Bundy working at the suicide hotline center...... just a theory....

    Hello -
    I wanted to first say how awesome you guys are for all the time you put into the show. I listen to many podcasts during my work day, and you guys really are great!!

    In regards to the mesa murders...there is an FBI profile that another podcaster from. It can be heard in "Case file" episode on the mesa murders and Captain you weren't far off!

    Lastly,
    You guys mentioned that the city has a report in system for the women/men who are working the streets....
    I have a theory... (armchair detective hat on)
    Could the killer be someone who was working with the program???? Could that be how the girls knew each other? And how the killer had access to them???
    Similar to Ted Bundy working at the suicide hotline center...... just a theory....

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    True Crime Garage

    Hi Kate - interesting theory. The Killing Season (tv show) briefly covered this case and that was a theory they were presenting. I think some locals brought that to their attention if I recall correctly. Cheers, Nic

    Hi Kate - interesting theory. The Killing Season (tv show) briefly covered this case and that was a theory they were presenting. I think some locals brought that to their attention if I recall correctly.
    Cheers,
    Nic

  • Natalie

    Natalie Joplin mo

    Hey, I have been binge listening to you show, today I just listen to the mesa show. You guys were wondering what kind of store Ron had owned, he owned a book store, and they also had a few other things for sell there, some vintage clothes, and other vintage items. My grandma had work at his store since it opened until he closed it down. Also, on a side note my sister had her senior pictures taken by him and he still has a studio open in town.

    Hey, I have been binge listening to you show, today I just listen to the mesa show. You guys were wondering what kind of store Ron had owned, he owned a book store, and they also had a few other things for sell there, some vintage clothes, and other vintage items. My grandma had work at his store since it opened until he closed it down. Also, on a side note my sister had her senior pictures taken by him and he still has a studio open in town.

  • Kristin

    Kristin Edmonton AB Canada

    The woman you speak of at the end of this episode (Nina) is not the only street woman who has been murdered in the Edmonton area. She is one of at least 8 since the late 90s. 3 different bodies have been found in the fields within 5km of a county called Leduc (near to Beaumont mentioned on this audio). Almost all of the remains found and the other women missing/murdered have been those of women who were known to have worked on the streets of Edmonton. There is a small area outside of Edmonton, known for truckers and oil patch transients, called Nisku. Police here believe we have a serial killer in central Alberta.

    The woman you speak of at the end of this episode (Nina) is not the only street woman who has been murdered in the Edmonton area. She is one of at least 8 since the late 90s. 3 different bodies have been found in the fields within 5km of a county called Leduc (near to Beaumont mentioned on this audio). Almost all of the remains found and the other women missing/murdered have been those of women who were known to have worked on the streets of Edmonton. There is a small area outside of Edmonton, known for truckers and oil patch transients, called Nisku. Police here believe we have a serial killer in central Alberta.

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    True Crime Garage

    I think you totally have one or maybe two killers working up there. Likely one or both are truckers. Next week we are looking at a serial who was also a trucker. Cheers Nic

    I think you totally have one or maybe two killers working up there. Likely one or both are truckers. Next week we are looking at a serial who was also a trucker.
    Cheers Nic

  • aimlesst

    aimlesst

    My first reaction about the boyfriend that killed Montoya is that he was really the victim's pimp rather than an actual boyfriend. Looking at the legalization question, I have three comments. First I live in Wisconsin. The area is a hub for sex trafficking, with the majority of those who connect with law enforcement started when they were under the age of 18. Second, research shows that legalizing prostitution increases sex trafficing. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986065 And third this commen from an article in Psychology Today: The evidence is clear: no matter what city or county or country (including countries where prostitution is “legalized” and regulated and sanitized), upwards of 90 percent of “sex workers” have histories of childhood sexual abuse, untreated post-traumatic stress disorder, and are disproportionately persons of color from lives of poverty, including homelessness. They often come from backgrounds of violence and exploitation, and once they are in the “life” of sex work, they are once again victims of violence and exploitation. And those male buyers of sex? They are disproportionately white and well-off financially. Many buyers are married and occupy high status positions in society, including doctors, lawyers, and politicians. Another interesting fact is that the majority of buyers of sex at some level feel remorse and would like to stop.

    My first reaction about the boyfriend that killed Montoya is that he was really the victim's pimp rather than an actual boyfriend.

    Looking at the legalization question, I have three comments. First I live in Wisconsin. The area is a hub for sex trafficking, with the majority of those who connect with law enforcement started when they were under the age of 18. Second, research shows that legalizing prostitution increases sex trafficing. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986065 And third this commen from an article in Psychology Today:
    The evidence is clear: no matter what city or county or country (including countries where prostitution is “legalized” and regulated and sanitized), upwards of 90 percent of “sex workers” have histories of childhood sexual abuse, untreated post-traumatic stress disorder, and are disproportionately persons of color from lives of poverty, including homelessness. They often come from backgrounds of violence and exploitation, and once they are in the “life” of sex work, they are once again victims of violence and exploitation. And those male buyers of sex? They are disproportionately white and well-off financially. Many buyers are married and occupy high status positions in society, including doctors, lawyers, and politicians. Another interesting fact is that the majority of buyers of sex at some level feel remorse and would like to stop.

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