Amy Mihaljevic /// 308 /// 309

62 comments

  • Demetria Franklin

    Demetria Franklin Greensboro al

    I enjoy y'all podcast every week. I how yall break the story. It make u Imagine about it.

    I enjoy y'all podcast every week. I how yall break the story. It make u Imagine about it.

  • Emma

    Emma Illinois

    I’m confused, you already did this case for episode 22 in 2016? Sorry if I missed something?

    I’m confused, you already did this case for episode 22 in 2016? Sorry if I missed something?

  • Jeff

    Jeff Minnesota

    Was it confirmed that the curtain and blanket are/were not identified by Amy's family? Feels like those items are key to finding who took her. I feel like the discovery of her dog's hair puts the items at Amy's house or car, rather than transferred from her clothing.

    Was it confirmed that the curtain and blanket are/were not identified by Amy's family? Feels like those items are key to finding who took her. I feel like the discovery of her dog's hair puts the items at Amy's house or car, rather than transferred from her clothing.

  • Sabrina

    Sabrina Tampa, FL

    For some reason I can't get this episode on Stitcher, my preferred podcast method, so I listened on spotify. I restarted my phone and updated the Stitcher ap and still not there. I want to say thank you for covering this case and keeping it out there, I so look forward to your cases each week and I believe you are doing good in this world. The only issue I say with Nic defending law enforcement for waiting 26 years to ask if anyone has seen this curtain/blanket is that yes it may have taken a while to connect amy and the curtain, but it could not have taken 26 years, I mean how old was Amy's dog, and dogs don't live 26 years. Unless they went to the home and asked for hairs of the dog in case they need them and preserved them for 26 years to connect it, but I doubt that. I know it is not easy being in law enforcement or an investigator, but its just too bad that piece of info couldn't have been released sooner. I remember Curtains like that, the homemade kinds growing up in the 80's and they were usually made by grandparents, or the parents and 26 years later, the person who made them may not be alive, or may very well not remember they ever made a curtain. and the colors fade and may not even resemble the curtain you may have made. I remember us having those homemade curtains as a kid, but I couldn't tell you now who made them, and my parents aren't here any longer to tell me, and although my grandparents are, they may or may not remember that. It is hard to conceive of someone being a child killer/abductor/assaulter only doing this once or twice and stopping, but I do believe Nic and some others out there that feel this may have been this person's only murder, but probably not first or last assault, or inappropriate activity with young kids. This person may not have wanted to kill her, probably thought unreasonably they could just spend time with a young kid and return her and it be fine, I mean how else could this person stay under the radar so long? I just hope and pray this case can be solved some day soon. This person has gotten away with this for so many long years, I guess I can only hope the person changed and this eats him up alive inside the evil that he did, but I worry that since getting away with for so long, they may take it with them to the grave. Someone out there has to know something, even if it is something so small, please come clean and pay for your crime(s).

    For some reason I can't get this episode on Stitcher, my preferred podcast method, so I listened on spotify. I restarted my phone and updated the Stitcher ap and still not there.

    I want to say thank you for covering this case and keeping it out there, I so look forward to your cases each week and I believe you are doing good in this world.

    The only issue I say with Nic defending law enforcement for waiting 26 years to ask if anyone has seen this curtain/blanket is that yes it may have taken a while to connect amy and the curtain, but it could not have taken 26 years, I mean how old was Amy's dog, and dogs don't live 26 years. Unless they went to the home and asked for hairs of the dog in case they need them and preserved them for 26 years to connect it, but I doubt that. I know it is not easy being in law enforcement or an investigator, but its just too bad that piece of info couldn't have been released sooner. I remember Curtains like that, the homemade kinds growing up in the 80's and they were usually made by grandparents, or the parents and 26 years later, the person who made them may not be alive, or may very well not remember they ever made a curtain. and the colors fade and may not even resemble the curtain you may have made. I remember us having those homemade curtains as a kid, but I couldn't tell you now who made them, and my parents aren't here any longer to tell me, and although my grandparents are, they may or may not remember that.

    It is hard to conceive of someone being a child killer/abductor/assaulter only doing this once or twice and stopping, but I do believe Nic and some others out there that feel this may have been this person's only murder, but probably not first or last assault, or inappropriate activity with young kids. This person may not have wanted to kill her, probably thought unreasonably they could just spend time with a young kid and return her and it be fine, I mean how else could this person stay under the radar so long? I just hope and pray this case can be solved some day soon. This person has gotten away with this for so many long years, I guess I can only hope the person changed and this eats him up alive inside the evil that he did, but I worry that since getting away with for so long, they may take it with them to the grave. Someone out there has to know something, even if it is something so small, please come clean and pay for your crime(s).

  • Kate

    Kate UK

    I really enjoy your podcast- especially as I work from home on Wednesdays and look forward to listening to a new episode whilst I work. But I can't find this one on Stitcher.. Will it be added on there later? Look forward to listening!

    I really enjoy your podcast- especially as I work from home on Wednesdays and look forward to listening to a new episode whilst I work. But I can't find this one on Stitcher.. Will it be added on there later?
    Look forward to listening!

  • RACHEL

    RACHEL O-H-I-O

    The single most formative criminal case of my life, with the exception of a personal one. I grew up in Lorain county and I remember watching the news every day before they found her, hoping she would be found alive. And then I remember the feeling of utter disappointment when they found her body, knowing that hope was gone. Even now, I work down the street from the plaza on Wolf Rd. where she was taken and I drive past there frequently and still feel the sadness at how unnecessary it feels that this is still unsolved. Not unnecessary like the police are to blame, but just unnecessary like "come on, this guy can't possibly be that lucky or that smart," if you know what I mean. The middle school and the plaza and the police station are so close. Everything is so populated and would have been at that time of day especially. Looking forward to part 2.

    The single most formative criminal case of my life, with the exception of a personal one. I grew up in Lorain county and I remember watching the news every day before they found her, hoping she would be found alive. And then I remember the feeling of utter disappointment when they found her body, knowing that hope was gone. Even now, I work down the street from the plaza on Wolf Rd. where she was taken and I drive past there frequently and still feel the sadness at how unnecessary it feels that this is still unsolved. Not unnecessary like the police are to blame, but just unnecessary like "come on, this guy can't possibly be that lucky or that smart," if you know what I mean. The middle school and the plaza and the police station are so close. Everything is so populated and would have been at that time of day especially. Looking forward to part 2.

  • Amy

    Amy Cuyahoga Falls, OH

    Glad you finally covered this case! Can you cover more stories that are in rural areas? I just love to hear Nic try to say rural....it makes me feel better about my inability to say it! Every time he says it I think “awwwww, me too Nic, me too!” #youarenotalone #icantsayiteither #trytosayaurora

    Glad you finally covered this case! Can you cover more stories that are in rural areas? I just love to hear Nic try to say rural....it makes me feel better about my inability to say it! Every time he says it I think “awwwww, me too Nic, me too!” #youarenotalone #icantsayiteither #trytosayaurora

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Emma Thats was just a interview with James Renner about the case. Captain

    Emma

    Thats was just a interview with James Renner about the case.

    Captain

  • Madi

    Madi Pittsburgh, PA

    This case will always bother me until it gets solved. I am so glad you decided to dive into this case more, other than the James Renner interview. I am always inclined to think it is someone the family knows, but then I always keep going back to the fact that other girls received similar phone calls to Amy. That always throws me off and makes me think maybe there is no connection at all. Was he just making calls until finally someone agreed to meet him? It's so frustrating. But if I go with my gut, I feel that the offender knew the family somehow. My thought is that maybe the offender had attempted to meet up with girls he did not know or that there was no connection, and it didn't work..he couldn't get them to meet him. Then he decided switch plans and target Amy, possibly thinking Amy would be more comfortable meeting him since she knows him already? He may not have even known the family well, but well enough that Amy would have known he was from their phone call. Maybe just someone the family knew from living in the same town or area? Also; did you mean to give Amy's description in the 1st episode as being 5'10"? I'm assuming that a mistake as thats' taller than myself and I'm a 27 year old woman! lol. Anyhow - great episodes, about to listen to the 2nd one now!

    This case will always bother me until it gets solved. I am so glad you decided to dive into this case more, other than the James Renner interview. I am always inclined to think it is someone the family knows, but then I always keep going back to the fact that other girls received similar phone calls to Amy. That always throws me off and makes me think maybe there is no connection at all. Was he just making calls until finally someone agreed to meet him? It's so frustrating. But if I go with my gut, I feel that the offender knew the family somehow.
    My thought is that maybe the offender had attempted to meet up with girls he did not know or that there was no connection, and it didn't work..he couldn't get them to meet him. Then he decided switch plans and target Amy, possibly thinking Amy would be more comfortable meeting him since she knows him already? He may not have even known the family well, but well enough that Amy would have known he was from their phone call. Maybe just someone the family knew from living in the same town or area?
    Also; did you mean to give Amy's description in the 1st episode as being 5'10"? I'm assuming that a mistake as thats' taller than myself and I'm a 27 year old woman! lol.
    Anyhow - great episodes, about to listen to the 2nd one now!

  • Nicole

    Nicole Cincinnati

    Maybe Amy was talked into calling her mom because the killer wanted to make sure she wouldnt be missed and he sold it to Amy as make sure she is still at work so we can hurry and get the present without her finding out. Or make sure your mom is at work so we can take the present to her so she was rushed. Kids will sound off when they are trying to hide something in this example a surprise.

    Maybe Amy was talked into calling her mom because the killer wanted to make sure she wouldnt be missed and he sold it to Amy as make sure she is still at work so we can hurry and get the present without her finding out. Or make sure your mom is at work so we can take the present to her so she was rushed. Kids will sound off when they are trying to hide something in this example a surprise.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    I'm not sure what the issue was but the episodes are up on stitcher now. Also I hope everyone enjoys this idea... When we first started out we would revisit the Long Island Serial Killer case - we did several episodes but not in a row. This year a show goal was to try to get back to that idea a bit. So earlier this year we took a new look at the Oakland County Child killer case and this week Amy's case. It's good to go back to these bigger cases even when there is not new information. Plus these were completely different shows both in format and delivery. Cheers Nic

    I'm not sure what the issue was but the episodes are up on stitcher now. Also I hope everyone enjoys this idea... When we first started out we would revisit the Long Island Serial Killer case - we did several episodes but not in a row. This year a show goal was to try to get back to that idea a bit. So earlier this year we took a new look at the Oakland County Child killer case and this week Amy's case. It's good to go back to these bigger cases even when there is not new information. Plus these were completely different shows both in format and delivery.
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    It is confirmed by the family 100% the curtain and blanket did not come from the Mihaljevic house. Cheers Nic

    It is confirmed by the family 100% the curtain and blanket did not come from the Mihaljevic house.
    Cheers Nic

  • Shannon

    Shannon Dayton OH

    On the eye witness that saw the man standing by his open trunk .. I wouldn’t discount her even if she was off on the date she saw him . If Amy’s body had been there for a longer period of time as some authorities believe then it wouldn’t matter if it was an earlier date it could still be the killer. Also let’s say it was after she was placed there , it would be possible that he was stopping to see if she was still there or just revisit her as these sickos sometimes do . Maybe when he saw the jogger approaching he was just pretending to do something in his trunk . If the dates that Amy could have been placed there vary .. so could the date that the man was seen . Great podcast !

    On the eye witness that saw the man standing by his open trunk .. I wouldn’t discount her even if she was off on the date she saw him . If Amy’s body had been there for a longer period of time as some authorities believe then it wouldn’t matter if it was an earlier date it could still be the killer. Also let’s say it was after she was placed there , it would be possible that he was stopping to see if she was still there or just revisit her as these sickos sometimes do . Maybe when he saw the jogger approaching he was just pretending to do something in his trunk . If the dates that Amy could have been placed there vary .. so could the date that the man was seen .
    Great podcast !

  • Kylie

    Kylie Columbia

    Thank you guys for revisiting this case ! Such a sad one and I hope we see a resolution some day ! I know it was mentioned a few times that it’s believed that the perp wasn’t intending to murder Amy - but possibly felt that it was a necessity - what then was the intention of her abduction ? We aren’t (for sure) if there was a sexual assault - of course it would seem most obvious that the crime was sexually motivated ... maybe the murder was the sexual fantasy ? Is that a possibility? I don’t care how “micro” a penis is , I believe there would be physical evidence of an assault on a young girls body if there was a forcible rape/assault . Although to Nic’s Comment maybe the evidence of that was lost due to the amount of time her body was exposed to the elements and the rate of decomposition... also the murder itself seems very violent and personal , especially for someone who wasn’t “planning” on doing it ! Just some thoughts I had listening to the episode . Thanks for another great 2 hours ! You guys remain my favorite podcast !

    Thank you guys for revisiting this case ! Such a sad one and I hope we see a resolution some day !

    I know it was mentioned a few times that it’s believed that the perp wasn’t intending to murder Amy - but possibly felt that it was a necessity - what then was the intention of her abduction ? We aren’t (for sure) if there was a sexual assault - of course it would seem most obvious that the crime was sexually motivated ... maybe the murder was the sexual fantasy ? Is that a possibility? I don’t care how “micro” a penis is , I believe there would be physical evidence of an assault on a young girls body if there was a forcible rape/assault . Although to Nic’s Comment maybe the evidence of that was lost due to the amount of time her body was exposed to the elements and the rate of decomposition... also the murder itself seems very violent and personal , especially for someone who wasn’t “planning” on doing it !

    Just some thoughts I had listening to the episode . Thanks for another great 2 hours ! You guys remain my favorite podcast !

  • Stefanie

    Stefanie Cleveland, OH

    There were many of the FBI agents from the Cleveland office that actually lived in Bay Village. That is why they were involved so quickly.

    There were many of the FBI agents from the Cleveland office that actually lived in Bay Village. That is why they were involved so quickly.

  • Sandy

    Sandy Michigan-The U.P.!

    Has anyone else wondered if the abductor is somehow tied to the school? Is it just a coincidence the assembly that day was about not talking to strangers, etc?

    Has anyone else wondered if the abductor is somehow tied to the school? Is it just a coincidence the assembly that day was about not talking to strangers, etc?

  • Luke

    Luke

    Thanks a lot for the episodes guys, appreciate your work. I like the idea of revisiting cases and going more in depth. This is a tragic story, and I hope there is closure soon.

    Thanks a lot for the episodes guys, appreciate your work. I like the idea of revisiting cases and going more in depth. This is a tragic story, and I hope there is closure soon.

  • Amanda

    Amanda Pennsylvania

    Captain and Nic-- Do you know if authorities have had the opportunity to use the M-vac technology on the blanket/curtain? Exciting to think of the possibilities/answers it could bring to Amy's case. Have fun at CrimeCon!

    Captain and Nic--
    Do you know if authorities have had the opportunity to use the M-vac technology on the blanket/curtain? Exciting to think of the possibilities/answers it could bring to Amy's case.
    Have fun at CrimeCon!

  • John

    John Wisconsin

    Nic, don't forget you revisited the Brian Schaffer case as well. I enjoy the revisits. You guys never mail it in. Unlike "Big-Shot Bob" Ruff and his 25 minute episodes between vacations.

    Nic, don't forget you revisited the Brian Schaffer case as well. I enjoy the revisits.

    You guys never mail it in. Unlike "Big-Shot Bob" Ruff and his 25 minute episodes between vacations.

  •  Abbie A

    Abbie A

    This case absolutely breaks my heart for Amy and her family. This POS took advantage of her being young and naive. I struggle with the part about her Mom’s promotion. Sometimes it makes me think he knew them and other times I think it was just a good ploy because kids don’t always know everything about their parents work environments. I’m not sure how I feel about all of the other phone calls being related to her case. I definitely feel like it was more common back then to receive prank or disturbing phone calls than today. There weren’t cell phones back then so houses had home phones. Many phone numbers were listed in the phone book too. My name had been in the local newspaper when I was about about 7/8 which would have been 88-89 for placing well at a local gymnastics competition. The newspaper printed my name and town. I had a very uncommon maiden name and we were the only ones in the phone book in the town we lived in with that last name. Just days after this, the phone rang and I answered it. Luckily my mom was doing dishes and she heard me say, This is Abbie so she knew the person specifically asked for me. This man says to me, “Do you have hair between your legs?” I was a little kid and had no idea what he meant. My Mom heard me say, “What do you mean do I have hair between my legs?” She flew across the kitchen and ripped the phone from my hand but of course the coward hung up when she said something to him. I’m thankful that my situation stopped at the phone call because phone book had our full address in it. I think phone calls were not uncommon back then and some of the others could have been made by other sickos maybe and just happened to be around the same time. He seemed to have her targeted I think.

    This case absolutely breaks my heart for Amy and her family. This POS took advantage of her being young and naive. I struggle with the part about her Mom’s promotion. Sometimes it makes me think he knew them and other times I think it was just a good ploy because kids don’t always know everything about their parents work environments.

    I’m not sure how I feel about all of the other phone calls being related to her case. I definitely feel like it was more common back then to receive prank or disturbing phone calls than today. There weren’t cell phones back then so houses had home phones. Many phone numbers were listed in the phone book too. My name had been in the local newspaper when I was about about 7/8 which would have been 88-89 for placing well at a local gymnastics competition. The newspaper printed my name and town. I had a very uncommon maiden name and we were the only ones in the phone book in the town we lived in with that last name. Just days after this, the phone rang and I answered it. Luckily my mom was doing dishes and she heard me say, This is Abbie so she knew the person specifically asked for me. This man says to me, “Do you have hair between your legs?” I was a little kid and had no idea what he meant. My Mom heard me say, “What do you mean do I have hair between my legs?” She flew across the kitchen and ripped the phone from my hand but of course the coward hung up when she said something to him. I’m thankful that my situation stopped at the phone call because phone book had our full address in it.

    I think phone calls were not uncommon back then and some of the others could have been made by other sickos maybe and just happened to be around the same time. He seemed to have her targeted I think.

  • Alexa & James Wheeler

    Alexa & James Wheeler Sikeston, MO

    I’m a long time listener (Alexa) and we are telling you as farmers that she was not left there right after the crime. She’s too close to the road. She would have been found! Whoever had that baby dumped her shortly before she was found!

    I’m a long time listener (Alexa) and we are telling you as farmers that she was not left there right after the crime. She’s too close to the road. She would have been found! Whoever had that baby dumped her shortly before she was found!

  • HEATHER

    HEATHER VA

    I wonder if they looked at anyone that was in her school that might have records to the girls and their phone number and know where their parents worked....

    I wonder if they looked at anyone that was in her school that might have records to the girls and their phone number and know where their parents worked....

  • Amanda

    Amanda Maryland

    Really great job this week, guys! Lots of good discussion. Nic, I appreciate you being willing to correct previous statements after learning more information. I wish more people could do that (in general) without feeling like they're losing some pride in the process. I wish you didn't feel the need to apologize for graphic descriptions. Here's my view: It's a true crime podcast. Details of the crime will be discussed. I know that some people are sensitive to certain topics (children, sexual assault, etc.). But the episode provides plenty of information early on for someone to decide to turn it off if they choose. Doesn't seem fair to me when people get upset that you describe gruesome details in a podcast that analyzes criminal cases. This would probably be too risky, but is there any chance that the killer was someone who worked at the school? Maybe behind the scenes, where students wouldn't easily recognize him, but he would still have access to student information? Or maybe he was a family member or friend of someone who worked at the school and managed to get access to the records? That could explain how someone the family didn't know could track Amy down and know that she was "his type." As I said, that might have been too risky a move, since SOMEONE could recognize him. But the more I try to think about it, the weirder it gets to think of who could convince Amy to go with him, but wasn't recognized by anyone, and no one in the community seemed to notice anyone acting strangely. It's weird to realize that Amy would be about 40 years old now. I'm sure her family has always wondered about the possibilities if she'd had a chance to grow up.

    Really great job this week, guys! Lots of good discussion. Nic, I appreciate you being willing to correct previous statements after learning more information. I wish more people could do that (in general) without feeling like they're losing some pride in the process.

    I wish you didn't feel the need to apologize for graphic descriptions. Here's my view: It's a true crime podcast. Details of the crime will be discussed. I know that some people are sensitive to certain topics (children, sexual assault, etc.). But the episode provides plenty of information early on for someone to decide to turn it off if they choose. Doesn't seem fair to me when people get upset that you describe gruesome details in a podcast that analyzes criminal cases.

    This would probably be too risky, but is there any chance that the killer was someone who worked at the school? Maybe behind the scenes, where students wouldn't easily recognize him, but he would still have access to student information? Or maybe he was a family member or friend of someone who worked at the school and managed to get access to the records? That could explain how someone the family didn't know could track Amy down and know that she was "his type." As I said, that might have been too risky a move, since SOMEONE could recognize him. But the more I try to think about it, the weirder it gets to think of who could convince Amy to go with him, but wasn't recognized by anyone, and no one in the community seemed to notice anyone acting strangely.

    It's weird to realize that Amy would be about 40 years old now. I'm sure her family has always wondered about the possibilities if she'd had a chance to grow up.

  • shellie

    shellie kansas city

    I heard twice 5'10' young girl and 90 lbs? im 5'5' and 150! im sure it was a mistake. Love the Boner remark captain. you crack me up! all your haters have no sense of humor! don't ever change.

    I heard twice 5'10' young girl and 90 lbs? im 5'5' and 150! im sure it was a mistake. Love the Boner remark captain. you crack me up! all your haters have no sense of humor! don't ever change.

  • Melissa

    Melissa Iows

    It seems logical that Amy's mother may have worked with Amy's killer. The killer would probably know the time of day her mother would call her after school. Familiar with her mother enough to fool Amy to think her mother received a promotion and deserved a gift. Also, mother's talk about their children all the time at work with their coworkers. The killer would know Amy without Amy knowing the killer.

    It seems logical that Amy's mother may have worked with Amy's killer. The killer would probably know the time of day her mother would call her after school. Familiar with her mother enough to fool Amy to think her mother received a promotion and deserved a gift. Also, mother's talk about their children all the time at work with their coworkers. The killer would know Amy without Amy knowing the killer.

  • Martin

    Martin England

    Great idea to go over old cases. This one and the Brian Shaffer case were really well done, but this Amy case should have been at least three parts. I know you said you will come back to it to cover the suspects , but wouldn't it have been better to do it all in a consecutive series? Nic's passion for this case shone through and made for a great listen, but at the end it felt like a film that ended at the beginning of the third act. I am a big fan of your show and hope you will see these comments as constructive criticism. Martin

    Great idea to go over old cases. This one and the Brian Shaffer case were really well done, but this Amy case should have been at least three parts. I know you said you will come back to it to cover the suspects , but wouldn't it have been better to do it all in a consecutive series?

    Nic's passion for this case shone through and made for a great listen, but at the end it felt like a film that ended at the beginning of the third act. I am a big fan of your show and hope you will see these comments as constructive criticism.
    Martin

  • Matt

    Matt Northern Virginia

    This was one of your finest episodes yet. I enjoy James Renner's writing, but his interviews sometimes are little, um, odd (e.g., the Ray Gricar episode). Re-visiting this case and putting it in your own words (including a few words that Nic invented) really put everything in its proper perspective and is much appreciated.

    This was one of your finest episodes yet. I enjoy James Renner's writing, but his interviews sometimes are little, um, odd (e.g., the Ray Gricar episode). Re-visiting this case and putting it in your own words (including a few words that Nic invented) really put everything in its proper perspective and is much appreciated.

  • mG

    mG tX

    This guy called multiple houses where little girls lived. At least three, but maybe a lot more. This guy is not cold calling, he knows houses that have little girls and he knows phone #s. To me, this is the crux of the case. This guy had a job that allowed him access to this information. Shot out of a cannon, he was associated with the school district in some way. Maybe maintenance, maybe bus driving, maybe a paraprofessional, don't know. But I do think he was seeing these girls in person and then finding out the other information on them he would need to make contact. I think it also explains why he set Friday afternoon as the time he abducted her. I think he coveted these girls five days a week and then moved on one after school on Friday.

    This guy called multiple houses where little girls lived. At least three, but maybe a lot more. This guy is not cold calling, he knows houses that have little girls and he knows phone #s. To me, this is the crux of the case. This guy had a job that allowed him access to this information. Shot out of a cannon, he was associated with the school district in some way. Maybe maintenance, maybe bus driving, maybe a paraprofessional, don't know. But I do think he was seeing these girls in person and then finding out the other information on them he would need to make contact. I think it also explains why he set Friday afternoon as the time he abducted her. I think he coveted these girls five days a week and then moved on one after school on Friday.

  • Rob

    Rob Florida

    Don’t discount the eye witness account on the CR where she was found no matter what the date was. As you certainly know some on these folks revisit dump sites often for a variety of reasons. I’d be more interested in the time this person was there which I apologize I don’t remember from your show which is very well done by the way. Early morning or late evening encounters in that area can be very interesting as we have learned from Ridgeway, Bundy and others. Just my two cents, but love the show. Thank you for helping me pass the time on long drives guys. Keep it up

    Don’t discount the eye witness account on the CR where she was found no matter what the date was. As you certainly know some on these folks revisit dump sites often for a variety of reasons. I’d be more interested in the time this person was there which I apologize I don’t remember from your show which is very well done by the way. Early morning or late evening encounters in that area can be very interesting as we have learned from Ridgeway, Bundy and others. Just my two cents, but love the show. Thank you for helping me pass the time on long drives guys. Keep it up

  • Barbara

    Barbara North Olmsted, Ohio

    I worked for an attorney until 1985, who then went on to be a city prosecutor in Cleveland, but lived in Bay Village. I was visiting his wife in the spring of 1990. Several Bay cops and I believe a detective lived right on their street and she told me that they said Amy was not sexually molested, that the detectives, at the time, felt that the person did it for the thrill of the kill. I don't know if that opinion has changed in the 29 years since this happened but apparently that was the school of thought at the time. Also, as a side note - you made a reference early in episode 1 to North Olmsted Falls. North Olmsted and Olmsted Falls are two different cities in Cuyahoga County.

    I worked for an attorney until 1985, who then went on to be a city prosecutor in Cleveland, but lived in Bay Village. I was visiting his wife in the spring of 1990. Several Bay cops and I believe a detective lived right on their street and she told me that they said Amy was not sexually molested, that the detectives, at the time, felt that the person did it for the thrill of the kill. I don't know if that opinion has changed in the 29 years since this happened but apparently that was the school of thought at the time. Also, as a side note - you made a reference early in episode 1 to North Olmsted Falls. North Olmsted and Olmsted Falls are two different cities in Cuyahoga County.

  • Melissa55

    Melissa55 Tennessee

    I wonder, from the timing of the event (Friday afternoon after school) if he was a teacher, possibly from another district, not the local school system or he might have been recognized locally. I wonder if he could have been a sponsor or teacher from his school accompanying his class to an event Amy might have participated in. He might have seen her, become intrigued, and found out more about her. As a teacher possibly in another district it wouldn’t have been hard. It made me wonder since the profiler said he probably felt more comfortable around children. He could have seen the other girls he tried to contact the same way. It just sounds like some sort of teacher or someone who works with youth. . Anyway thanks so much for all you do. Y’all are the best.

    I wonder, from the timing of the event (Friday afternoon after school) if he was a teacher, possibly from another district, not the local school system or he might have been recognized locally. I wonder if he could have been a sponsor or teacher from his school accompanying his class to an event Amy might have participated in. He might have seen her, become intrigued, and found out more about her. As a teacher possibly in another district it wouldn’t have been hard. It made me wonder since the profiler said he probably felt more comfortable around children. He could have seen the other girls he tried to contact the same way. It just sounds like some sort of teacher or someone who works with youth. . Anyway thanks so much for all you do. Y’all are the best.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    The other girls that were called did not go to Amy’s school. A lot of people were looked at - many in the first two weeks. This would have been persons at the school, were Amy rode horses, Anyone who knew Margaret and Mark including their co-workers. This does not mean the offender is not in one of those circles. Cheers Nic

    The other girls that were called did not go to Amy’s school. A lot of people were looked at - many in the first two weeks. This would have been persons at the school, were Amy rode horses, Anyone who knew Margaret and Mark including their co-workers. This does not mean the offender is not in one of those circles.
    Cheers Nic

  • Stephanie

    Stephanie Grove City, Ohio

    They didn't go to Amy's school, but I believe all of the girls who received calls had been to the Lake Erie Nature & Science Center, correct? Which is also somewhere this guy volunteered, prior to quitting his teaching career 1 year before retirement when the school district began requiring fingerprinting, and moved to Key West to work at Wendy's.: https://www.facebook.com/dean.runkle.79/timeline?lst=50602472%3A100004890420131%3A1560272304 The resemblance is uncanny, and there were a couple of eye witness accounts of seeing him at the shopping plaza with Amy, but I get that memories are not without error and most of the rest is circumstantial at best. I'm sure the police can't say anything since the investigation is still open, but I'd love to know whether or not the mitochondrial DNA excludes him or not.

    They didn't go to Amy's school, but I believe all of the girls who received calls had been to the Lake Erie Nature & Science Center, correct? Which is also somewhere this guy volunteered, prior to quitting his teaching career 1 year before retirement when the school district began requiring fingerprinting, and moved to Key West to work at Wendy's.: https://www.facebook.com/dean.runkle.79/timeline?lst=50602472%3A100004890420131%3A1560272304

    The resemblance is uncanny, and there were a couple of eye witness accounts of seeing him at the shopping plaza with Amy, but I get that memories are not without error and most of the rest is circumstantial at best. I'm sure the police can't say anything since the investigation is still open, but I'd love to know whether or not the mitochondrial DNA excludes him or not.

  • Kelli

    Kelli TX

    In the previous episode I believe that it was mentioned that the police had a photographer at the station. I wondered if he might also travel to different schools in the area for yearbook pictures. He would be able to see girls from different schools. He might also have contact information and the parents name on the packet/ order sheet for the school pictures.

    In the previous episode I believe that it was mentioned that the police had a photographer at the station. I wondered if he might also travel to different schools in the area for yearbook pictures. He would be able to see girls from different schools. He might also have contact information and the parents name on the packet/ order sheet for the school pictures.

  • Jo

    Jo Parts unknown

    Thinking about Amy’s case. Did anyone check out the stables where Amy was taking riding lessons? Maybe some weirdo was hanging around there or working there and got her number from her registration forms? Just a thought. Still listening to part 2. Thanks you guys! Awesome podcast! Cheers from parts unknown!

    Thinking about Amy’s case. Did anyone check out the stables where Amy was taking riding lessons? Maybe some weirdo was hanging around there or working there and got her number from her registration forms? Just a thought. Still listening to part 2. Thanks you guys! Awesome podcast! Cheers from parts unknown!

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Jo - Unfortunately we never got to any suspects on our recent Amy shows. Turns out too much to discuss and there are plenty of suspects. The very first suspect and I would dare to say prime suspect was an employee of the riding stables - he was eventually cleared as a suspect. Keep in mind no one is technically 100% cleared but this man was cleared of the reasons he was originally a suspect and he was very was cooperative with LE. Cheers Nic

    Hi Jo - Unfortunately we never got to any suspects on our recent Amy shows. Turns out too much to discuss and there are plenty of suspects. The very first suspect and I would dare to say prime suspect was an employee of the riding stables - he was eventually cleared as a suspect. Keep in mind no one is technically 100% cleared but this man was cleared of the reasons he was originally a suspect and he was very was cooperative with LE.
    Cheers Nic

  • Val

    Val AZ

    Just a thought... I think the perp lived with his mother. I think if we look at women with a single male child, divorced or widowed never remarried in the area it might narrow the suspect pool. His mother could have been a caretaker for children in one way or another and eventually stopped due to health issues possibly dementia.

    Just a thought... I think the perp lived with his mother. I think if we look at women with a single male child, divorced or widowed never remarried in the area it might narrow the suspect pool. His mother could have been a caretaker for children in one way or another and eventually stopped due to health issues possibly dementia.

  • Meg

    Meg Ohio

    I don’t know anything about anything but it sounds like the perpetrator could be someone who works in a school on a part time basis. Someone that can go in and out without too much notice like a substitute teacher or, even the mailman or photocopier repair man. Has access to the school, noticing children and could account for the time constraints of being available after school hours as well as the 2 other calls that were further from Amy’s town.

    I don’t know anything about anything but it sounds like the perpetrator could be someone who works in a school on a part time basis. Someone that can go in and out without too much notice like a substitute teacher or, even the mailman or photocopier repair man. Has access to the school, noticing children and could account for the time constraints of being available after school hours as well as the 2 other calls that were further from Amy’s town.

  • Gennie

    Gennie California

    Were Amy's clothes covered in blood? And have they sent the blood found in her underpants to the DNA lab?

    Were Amy's clothes covered in blood? And have they sent the blood found in her underpants to the DNA lab?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    It's believed that she may have been nude when killed - that is why they are pretty sure a sexual assault occurred or was attempted. This may mean that other than the spot found in the underpants there may have been no blood elsewhere. I feel very confident saying that blood has been tested. The statement often said is it was Amy's blood. Nic

    It's believed that she may have been nude when killed - that is why they are pretty sure a sexual assault occurred or was attempted. This may mean that other than the spot found in the underpants there may have been no blood elsewhere. I feel very confident saying that blood has been tested. The statement often said is it was Amy's blood.
    Nic

  • Jason

    Jason Michigan

    If she had plant growth in her clothes then she must have been dumped there early. There certainly wouldn't be any plants growing in December or January. Maybe something would still be growing at the end of October or first part of November? Also, since this happened before everyone had cell phones, I wonder where she made the call to her mother from? Pay phone? If so, you would think her mother would hear background noise since it was the middle of the afternoon.

    If she had plant growth in her clothes then she must have been dumped there early. There certainly wouldn't be any plants growing in December or January. Maybe something would still be growing at the end of October or first part of November? Also, since this happened before everyone had cell phones, I wonder where she made the call to her mother from? Pay phone? If so, you would think her mother would hear background noise since it was the middle of the afternoon.

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Such a sad case, I remember it happening and I've read up on it over the years, It does seem like the teacher suspect is probably responsible considering that the area that she was found is where he was from or was living at the time. I mean if you threw darts at a map with a 50 mile radius you'd hit that maybe one out of fifty times, just too much coincidence going on there for me. Although the dentist is kind of a strange character also. I think this is a case of the investigators probably knowing who did it but just lack the hard evidence to make the case for it. We listened to part 1 of the pod so far and will catch part 2 tomorrow. This venue has intrigued my daughter now so we will probably be listening to all of them in time. Who would have thought that in today's age , apparently you guys did and thanks for that, its better than TV. My daughter asked me if they ever looked into customers of Amy's father, she said that they probably talk about their wives & kids & sports

    Such a sad case, I remember it happening and I've read up on it over the years, It does seem like the teacher suspect is probably responsible considering that the area that she was found is where he was from or was living at the time. I mean if you threw darts at a map with a 50 mile radius you'd hit that maybe one out of fifty times, just too much coincidence going on there for me.

    Although the dentist is kind of a strange character also.

    I think this is a case of the investigators probably knowing who did it but just lack the hard evidence to make the case for it. We listened to part 1 of the pod so far and will catch part 2 tomorrow.

    This venue has intrigued my daughter now so we will probably be listening to all of them in time. Who would have thought that in today's age , apparently you guys did and thanks for that, its better than TV.

    My daughter asked me if they ever looked into customers of Amy's father, she said that they probably talk about their wives & kids & sports

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Trying to figure out the blanket and idk its a pretty shabby looking blanket, I guess if you can find one that matches it you might have something. They got Amy's dog's hair off it so obviously a tie to her there, probably where she was covered in it, it was found down the street so probably an animal took it from her and dragged it down the street, did they find any other animal hairs or signs of an animal on the curtain ? If not that could tell us that this guy may have not had pets or he just didn't have this curtain around them or the place where she was killed did not permit pets. So why was this blanket used, was it just handy, expendable, right size etc , was it because it was going to be hard to trace. We don't get to know much about the blanket other than what it looks like now and that there was Amy's dog's hair found on it. Amy bled to death somewhere, more than likely in a bathtub somewhere right ? She was hit on the head, I'll guess the hit to the head came before the knife wounds. Where can someone get away with this at they need a bathtub and they needed a phone that wasn't long distance to Bay Village. Trying to be logical it doesn't make sense that he pulled over and let Amy make a phone call at a pay phone, doubt if he walked into a store with her anywhere to make that call to her mother, where could he have walked into a building with her could be a hotel that he already had a key for or an apartment This became violent and it probably happened when Amy realized this wasn't what it was supposed to be,I seriously doubt that he made it very far away with her before the violence occurred. I think the logical conclusion is that he took her to a hotel or maybe an apartment not far away and that is where the call was made from and she was killed there the same day probably trying to fight or get out of there. So either that blanket was in the trunk of his car or it was in an apartment that he was using or he found it in a hotel room. Why would that curtain be in an apartment though unless it was actually on the window I mean essentially its garbage So that blanket points toward this being done in an apartment to me. He abducts her and while he still has some of her confidence he takes her to this apartment to make a phone call because the store he is pretending to take her to is probably very close to that apartment, she gets scared and fights , he kills her , cleans everything in the tub , takes this curtain off the window, wraps her up, takes her to Ruggles Ohio and leaves her that night, probably stays close to there that night so he can go back and check in the daytime. I think its an apartment, did any of the suspects live in an apartment within say a half our of Bay Village ? For Runkle It makes sense that this was near a school and done by a teacher from another district, as in there is no chance that one of his current students is going to be able to ID him in Bay because they are just getting out of school in another town themselves. My gut tells me this was all done in one day two at the most but she was killed the first day , and it didn't go the way he planned. The blanket was probably on a window or being used for some other reason in the place that she was killed, where ever that place is they didn't allow pets or he just didn't have any, apartment most likely but possibly a hotel room. Its not a fluke that she was left in Ruggles , Ruggles isn't on the way to anywhere that could not have been easier to get to at least a few different ways, this person was well acquainted with Ruggles. I don't think there is much doubt who did this. Its the teacher that knows kids, knows how to manipulate them and knows the area she was left at and who happens to look a lot like the sketches. So sad that he is still waking free. So , she was abducted Taken to an apartment under the pretense of using the phone or some other lie he made up. She made the call to her mom. She realizes she's in real trouble She tries to leave or fight He hits her in the head Removes her clothes ( because these do not have a lot of blood on them & haven't been washed because there was dog hair that then transferred to the blanket ? ) Kills her in the tub Waits until she stops bleeding Cleans up Puts her clothes back on her Wraps her in the curtain off the window Drives to Ruggles Leaves the body Stays nearby for at least another day Goes back to the apartment

    Trying to figure out the blanket and idk its a pretty shabby looking blanket, I guess if you can find one that matches it you might have something. They got Amy's dog's hair off it so obviously a tie to her there, probably where she was covered in it, it was found down the street so probably an animal took it from her and dragged it down the street, did they find any other animal hairs or signs of an animal on the curtain ? If not that could tell us that this guy may have not had pets or he just didn't have this curtain around them or the place where she was killed did not permit pets.

    So why was this blanket used, was it just handy, expendable, right size etc , was it because it was going to be hard to trace. We don't get to know much about the blanket other than what it looks like now and that there was Amy's dog's hair found on it.

    Amy bled to death somewhere, more than likely in a bathtub somewhere right ? She was hit on the head, I'll guess the hit to the head came before the knife wounds. Where can someone get away with this at they need a bathtub and they needed a phone that wasn't long distance to Bay Village. Trying to be logical it doesn't make sense that he pulled over and let Amy make a phone call at a pay phone, doubt if he walked into a store with her anywhere to make that call to her mother, where could he have walked into a building with her could be a hotel that he already had a key for or an apartment

    This became violent and it probably happened when Amy realized this wasn't what it was supposed to be,I seriously doubt that he made it very far away with her before the violence occurred. I think the logical conclusion is that he took her to a hotel or maybe an apartment not far away and that is where the call was made from and she was killed there the same day probably trying to fight or get out of there.

    So either that blanket was in the trunk of his car or it was in an apartment that he was using or he found it in a hotel room. Why would that curtain be in an apartment though unless it was actually on the window I mean essentially its garbage

    So that blanket points toward this being done in an apartment to me. He abducts her and while he still has some of her confidence he takes her to this apartment to make a phone call because the store he is pretending to take her to is probably very close to that apartment, she gets scared and fights , he kills her , cleans everything in the tub , takes this curtain off the window, wraps her up, takes her to Ruggles Ohio and leaves her that night, probably stays close to there that night so he can go back and check in the daytime. I think its an apartment, did any of the suspects live in an apartment within say a half our of Bay Village ?

    For Runkle It makes sense that this was near a school and done by a teacher from another district, as in there is no chance that one of his current students is going to be able to ID him in Bay because they are just getting out of school in another town themselves.

    My gut tells me this was all done in one day two at the most but she was killed the first day , and it didn't go the way he planned. The blanket was probably on a window or being used for some other reason in the place that she was killed, where ever that place is they didn't allow pets or he just didn't have any, apartment most likely but possibly a hotel room. Its not a fluke that she was left in Ruggles , Ruggles isn't on the way to anywhere that could not have been easier to get to at least a few different ways, this person was well acquainted with Ruggles. I don't think there is much doubt who did this. Its the teacher that knows kids, knows how to manipulate them and knows the area she was left at and who happens to look a lot like the sketches. So sad that he is still waking free.

    So , she was abducted
    Taken to an apartment under the pretense of using the phone or some other lie he made up.
    She made the call to her mom.
    She realizes she's in real trouble
    She tries to leave or fight
    He hits her in the head
    Removes her clothes ( because these do not have a lot of blood on them & haven't been washed because there was dog hair that then transferred to the blanket ? )
    Kills her in the tub
    Waits until she stops bleeding
    Cleans up
    Puts her clothes back on her
    Wraps her in the curtain off the window
    Drives to Ruggles
    Leaves the body
    Stays nearby for at least another day
    Goes back to the apartment

  • J

    J Cleveland

    Watched 22, what was that bout Euclid mall ? If that is true then I would count out Runkle, no way he went there with her. It would make me start looking real hard at the soccer coach.

    Watched 22, what was that bout Euclid mall ? If that is true then I would count out Runkle, no way he went there with her. It would make me start looking real hard at the soccer coach.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    J - Thank you for listening to TCG episode 22. That's a good one and we will revisit this case again and again. Regarding the Euclid mall - that was a theory I was working on at the time for a couple of reasons that I will list but not go too far into. 1. the ruse was a shopping trip. 2. there was a photography studio there 3. the digested food contents in her stomach would be consistent with food found at a food court. That was a short lived theory of mine and it does not hold water for many reasons. So please ignore it. Thanks Nic

    J - Thank you for listening to TCG episode 22. That's a good one and we will revisit this case again and again. Regarding the Euclid mall - that was a theory I was working on at the time for a couple of reasons that I will list but not go too far into. 1. the ruse was a shopping trip. 2. there was a photography studio there 3. the digested food contents in her stomach would be consistent with food found at a food court.
    That was a short lived theory of mine and it does not hold water for many reasons.
    So please ignore it.
    Thanks Nic

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Thank you for that, I'll go back to Runkle then, my experience living here is that eh a guy from Ruggles or even just the west side really the last place they want to go is East of Cleveland at 3-3:30 on a Friday or anytime really, you're not getting there in a half hour from Bay anyway, not saying he wouldn't go but its just the way it is for a lot of folks, this is all guess work it would be nice to know everything that is known. Where ever he went it wasn't random right ? At least the first stop had to be planned, he knew where he was going, my guess would be midway mall area if it were Runkle, you can get to that one pretty quick from Bay, although I don't think they went to the mall, maybe just around it. You can get to Great Northern pretty quick also I just think that is less likely though. Once he has her he is getting back to territory that he knows, I think he had a place by Midway mall there somewhere where he killed her. Nothing has ever been found as a possible place ? Hotel , apartment, I don't think that he drove her to Ruggles alive or conscience anyway. If I look at a map I say he takes he her to the Super 8 on Lorain Road just past the mall, not sure if that place were there at the time but its the type of place that has outside entry to your room it looks like from google maps, parking in the rear etc, had to be a place like that or an actual apartment, I would like to know where places like that were located in 89, from there he's on 113 pretty quickly when he leaves, 60 down to Ruggles, 40 -45 minutes. He did seem to be efficient.

    Thank you for that, I'll go back to Runkle then, my experience living here is that eh a guy from Ruggles or even just the west side really the last place they want to go is East of Cleveland at 3-3:30 on a Friday or anytime really, you're not getting there in a half hour from Bay anyway, not saying he wouldn't go but its just the way it is for a lot of folks, this is all guess work it would be nice to know everything that is known.

    Where ever he went it wasn't random right ? At least the first stop had to be planned, he knew where he was going, my guess would be midway mall area if it were Runkle, you can get to that one pretty quick from Bay, although I don't think they went to the mall, maybe just around it. You can get to Great Northern pretty quick also I just think that is less likely though.

    Once he has her he is getting back to territory that he knows, I think he had a place by Midway mall there somewhere where he killed her. Nothing has ever been found as a possible place ? Hotel , apartment, I don't think that he drove her to Ruggles alive or conscience anyway.

    If I look at a map I say he takes he her to the Super 8 on Lorain Road just past the mall, not sure if that place were there at the time but its the type of place that has outside entry to your room it looks like from google maps, parking in the rear etc, had to be a place like that or an actual apartment, I would like to know where places like that were located in 89, from there he's on 113 pretty quickly when he leaves, 60 down to Ruggles, 40 -45 minutes. He did seem to be efficient.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    I think he had a planned spot to take her that involved no shopping at all. He probably told her... I need to swing by my place or somewhere to pick up money or a card something she might go for. I think Amy was too smart and it was when he said this that she figured it out and threatened him by saying - I have to call my mom. I call her everyday after school. If I don't call she will be mad and looking for me. To which he drove to a pay phone and allowed her to call under his watchful eye. From there he either tried to reassure her and continued onto his planned location or fought her and took her there anyway. This place would allow him the privacy that he desired. - Nic

    I think he had a planned spot to take her that involved no shopping at all. He probably told her... I need to swing by my place or somewhere to pick up money or a card something she might go for. I think Amy was too smart and it was when he said this that she figured it out and threatened him by saying - I have to call my mom. I call her everyday after school. If I don't call she will be mad and looking for me. To which he drove to a pay phone and allowed her to call under his watchful eye. From there he either tried to reassure her and continued onto his planned location or fought her and took her there anyway. This place would allow him the privacy that he desired.
    - Nic

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    I agree it can be several different ways, it is really hard to tell. I think you have to go with what the different ways have in common and what each needs to add up too. I personally would go with a scenario more like this, I think he needs to keep her confidence as long as possible and so he does at least drive by a mall, malls are busy areas and almost always by freeways maybe he says he needs to stop and get his wallet or cash etc and tells her to just come in with him to make that phone call home, maybe the call is his idea maybe its her's but we know 100% that he is picking the place - & that she isn't, either scenario is plausible, this is why I think the place that he killed her is in sight of a mall or shopping center etc. Midway is just too easy, it fits everything if it's Runkle, timeline, his normal travels, busy area that is also kind of remote small-townish enough once you get not far past the mall. I don't think you have to look much further than the area in close proximity to that mall to find the site of the murder. I also think as you do that he had no intention of going shopping , as long as he is making it look like he is to her she will not have lost total confidence in him, if he's by a mall she may still believe him at least a little or may still be be hoping that her gut feelings are wrong. I don't think he has enough control of her at a phone booth in public and I doubt that he pulls over to let her make that call just because she mentions it, if that girl is smart & calm enough to get him to do that then you know she's running and he probably does too, even if he does do it I'd have to ask why would he risk that he has nothing to gain by doing that, why bother letting her make that call at all let alone from a phone booth in public, he had nothing to gain from it other than keeping her confidence for a few more minutes, I believe he was already at the place where he killed her when that call was made. I doubt if he thought he was buying time from the authorities that doesn't add up, I think he was buying time with her not the authorities & and I am sure he didn't care what the parents thought at this time, imo he had total disregard for authorities in this entire thing ( still does ) , he did it across the street from them. He was in a place where he knew he would not be caught when that call was made and he killed her there imo. It had to be a hotel or he had some access to an apartment nearby, hotels are transient apartments not so much , first guess has to be hotel imo ( I could replace hotel with motel ). So where did all the blood go ? Down a drain ? A dentist office can handle that much blood with their equipment in 89 ? , just throwing questions out there, that soccer coach is a creepy guy and he was a dentist at the time in N. Olmsted and had a connection to the horse riding place. Whoever killed her drained her blood right ? Was that for the drive to the dumping site ? Did he really need to drain her blood if he was already in Ruggles ? I wouldn't think so. I have to guess that that is why her neck was cut ? Can they tell what the intention of the cut was by the report ? Is there a comprehensive site that has all the facts, theories and evidence that has been made public ? Thank you for responding & sorry if all this seems out there I'm just an armchair QB trying to make some sense of it, I remember this happening and its still just as sad as it was then.

    I agree it can be several different ways, it is really hard to tell. I think you have to go with what the different ways have in common and what each needs to add up too. I personally would go with a scenario more like this, I think he needs to keep her confidence as long as possible and so he does at least drive by a mall, malls are busy areas and almost always by freeways maybe he says he needs to stop and get his wallet or cash etc and tells her to just come in with him to make that phone call home, maybe the call is his idea maybe its her's but we know 100% that he is picking the place - & that she isn't, either scenario is plausible, this is why I think the place that he killed her is in sight of a mall or shopping center etc.

    Midway is just too easy, it fits everything if it's Runkle, timeline, his normal travels, busy area that is also kind of remote small-townish enough once you get not far past the mall. I don't think you have to look much further than the area in close proximity to that mall to find the site of the murder.

    I also think as you do that he had no intention of going shopping , as long as he is making it look like he is to her she will not have lost total confidence in him, if he's by a mall she may still believe him at least a little or may still be be hoping that her gut feelings are wrong.

    I don't think he has enough control of her at a phone booth in public and I doubt that he pulls over to let her make that call just because she mentions it, if that girl is smart & calm enough to get him to do that then you know she's running and he probably does too, even if he does do it I'd have to ask why would he risk that he has nothing to gain by doing that, why bother letting her make that call at all let alone from a phone booth in public, he had nothing to gain from it other than keeping her confidence for a few more minutes, I believe he was already at the place where he killed her when that call was made.

    I doubt if he thought he was buying time from the authorities that doesn't add up, I think he was buying time with her not the authorities & and I am sure he didn't care what the parents thought at this time, imo he had total disregard for authorities in this entire thing ( still does ) , he did it across the street from them.

    He was in a place where he knew he would not be caught when that call was made and he killed her there imo. It had to be a hotel or he had some access to an apartment nearby, hotels are transient apartments not so much , first guess has to be hotel imo ( I could replace hotel with motel ). So where did all the blood go ? Down a drain ? A dentist office can handle that much blood with their equipment in 89 ? , just throwing questions out there, that soccer coach is a creepy guy and he was a dentist at the time in N. Olmsted and had a connection to the horse riding place. Whoever killed her drained her blood right ? Was that for the drive to the dumping site ? Did he really need to drain her blood if he was already in Ruggles ? I wouldn't think so. I have to guess that that is why her neck was cut ? Can they tell what the intention of the cut was by the report ? Is there a comprehensive site that has all the facts, theories and evidence that has been made public ? Thank you for responding & sorry if all this seems out there I'm just an armchair QB trying to make some sense of it, I remember this happening and its still just as sad as it was then.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    @ J - I think you might be on to something with the hotel/motel thought. Here are my thoughts... That makes sense because this would allow him the privacy that he wants and he would not feel terribly uncomfortable with her calling from there especially if he provided fake identification for renting the room or none at all. - The only issue is he could not have been seen with her at anytime going in or out or really anywhere around the room. Wherever the call was placed it was not terribly far from the plaza we can come to this conclusion based off of the timeline. If he stayed that close to the abduction scene and was spotted"a man with a little girl staying at a motel" this certainly would have been reported. I think its very possible but as long as Amy was never spotted with/wo him at motel. I agree regarding lack of control at a payphone but he would not allow her to make the call from his home or his work - as he would be afraid this would be too easily tracked back to him, just my opinion can't say for sure. There would have been many payphone in that area - within 10 to 15 mile radius of the abduction site. The payphone I'm referring to and there were some of these types around Columbus back then mostly at gas stations off to the side over by the air or the car wash. But you could pull up and they were situated as such that you didn't need to get out of your car - you could just pull up and roll down your window. If it was a payphone that would be the type he would choose. And I agree with you 100% he chose where. she was going to make that call. I have since recording the last episodes received the coroner's report as for intention of the cut - it does not say but it reads - Multiple stab wounds of the neck - transection of left common artery. This sounds to me to be consistent with a knife attack with intent to kill but he could have just happen to stab her here may have intended for the heart - either way she did bleed out. But these are described as stab wounds not cuts so I lean toward attack with intent to kill. Not purposely draining of blood. But who knows - somewhere the killer left a lot of blood - bath tub/ shower seems likely either attack happened there or her moved her there. Wow I'm getting upset just thinking about it... This is very interesting discussion though. Let's keep this going. Cheers Nic

    @ J - I think you might be on to something with the hotel/motel thought. Here are my thoughts...
    That makes sense because this would allow him the privacy that he wants and he would not feel terribly uncomfortable with her calling from there especially if he provided fake identification for renting the room or none at all. - The only issue is he could not have been seen with her at anytime going in or out or really anywhere around the room. Wherever the call was placed it was not terribly far from the plaza we can come to this conclusion based off of the timeline. If he stayed that close to the abduction scene and was spotted"a man with a little girl staying at a motel" this certainly would have been reported. I think its very possible but as long as Amy was never spotted with/wo him at motel.
    I agree regarding lack of control at a payphone but he would not allow her to make the call from his home or his work - as he would be afraid this would be too easily tracked back to him, just my opinion can't say for sure. There would have been many payphone in that area - within 10 to 15 mile radius of the abduction site. The payphone I'm referring to and there were some of these types around Columbus back then mostly at gas stations off to the side over by the air or the car wash. But you could pull up and they were situated as such that you didn't need to get out of your car - you could just pull up and roll down your window. If it was a payphone that would be the type he would choose. And I agree with you 100% he chose where. she was going to make that call.
    I have since recording the last episodes received the coroner's report as for intention of the cut - it does not say but it reads - Multiple stab wounds of the neck - transection of left common artery. This sounds to me to be consistent with a knife attack with intent to kill but he could have just happen to stab her here may have intended for the heart - either way she did bleed out. But these are described as stab wounds not cuts so I lean toward attack with intent to kill. Not purposely draining of blood. But who knows - somewhere the killer left a lot of blood - bath tub/ shower seems likely either attack happened there or her moved her there. Wow I'm getting upset just thinking about it...
    This is very interesting discussion though. Let's keep this going.
    Cheers Nic

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Nic- The only issue is he could not have been seen with her at anytime going in or out or really anywhere around the room. idk you're talking about a guy that just abducted a little girl in daylight around her friends & across the street from a PD , he's pretty bold / arrogant. I can't overlook that and then say that anything else he does has to follow any logical scenario we might think he is following, he is already doing the unexpected but he has it nailed down, he has a plan and he's following it. I just can't believe that plan is to drive all the way to Ruggles from Bay Village. He knows he has about 20 minutes before she is going to know that this is getting ugly, he has to be prepared for that he knows too much about how she will react to not know how much time he has before she knows. What makes sense to me is that he has a place prepared to take her while he's still in the vicinity & before he totally loses her confidence, he doesn't know what he gets after she does. On google maps ( not sure its relevant, don't know if the super 8 was even there at the time but it looks like a 60's or early 70's structure to me ) It looks like the back of the hotel has separate entries or at least one back entry, and that is most likely a truckers motel looking at the rear parking, probably not much happening back there, I wouldn't just assume that he doesn't do that. I think something like that is his most logical choice, Keep in mind he basically nabbed her in front of her friends, he's pretty bold/arrogant or maybe he just doesn't care that much if he gets caught idk but he had to go somewhere, yes I remember those phones now, possibility, there was not much cord on them as I remember it being restrictive, I was probably 250 in those days maybe it was better for a skinny guy or a little kid but I don't think there was much cord on them, but if so does that place Amy in the backseat of the car and make it a sedan, or does he pull up to it on the wrong side ? So many ifs, So with the knife I guess it sounds like he is just killing her with a knife with no other intent of trying to drain her blood or something, I don't even know if that is possible honestly. I thought more of that pointing to a dentist someone that would know that stuff, she weighs what about 80 pounds and he's gotta be around maybe 180lbs I would guess from the description why did he need a knife, did he kill her in her sleep ? Do they know if the wounds were done from behind ? I have a hard time believing that he went directly to New London with her, that is a long way to go and she surely would be on to him by that time, he does need to drive the vehicle and try to control her, I gotta believe she died where the call was from and if not then I guess she died at his house or property in New London / Ruggles area. All in all, I know the stuff I have seen so far has Runkle written all over it but ti does seem to be circumstantial and if I listen to my gut this was done by the dentist, how she ends up on 1181 in that case is a question mark but who knows, you gotta figure if it is Runkle why is he dumping her there, I mean he's not stupid and how can you have this abduction planned out so carefully then drop the body in a place where you know you are going to be the only suspect from that area once they find her because if you weren't already a suspect you were soon to be one once the body was found right ? I mean doesn't the investigation at that point get geared toward the people in that area that also have business in the north, there are not that many people in that area driving that trek ? but I get that they didn't have google search options back then maybe not so easy to find where people work and live. I believe the dentist and Runkle went to the same college, not sure if it was at the same time, I wonder what are the chances that those 2 randomly knew each other ? Let's do a for instance, let's say the body wasn't found in Ruggles, from that point who believes that Runkle killed her ? How much of the case against Runkle is predicated on where the body was found, is there any other real evidence ? To my knowledge they can't find evidence of him being at the nature center or anywhere else that Amy or her parents may have been ? The dentist does not have a verifiable alibi for the time, it was said that he often missed Fridays although he seems to be a taller guy and in at least the one soccer pic has a mustache. It was said that he made a phone call to one of the girls on his soccer team and asked her if he could be her boyfriend. That's pretty creepy stuff, can't overlook that. idk so 3 things, 3 scenarios, 1, Runkle kills her in the vicinity 2, Runkle kills her near Ruggles 3, The dentist does this in the vicinity. Runkle didn't put himself around girls exclusively, can't say that for the dentist. Thanks for the thoughts, info and replies Nic. Lets hope someone can help them get this guy, it would be nice if they could before the 30th anniversary. Anything on a comprehensive site ? ( that is not a slight to what you do here, please don't take it that way )

    Nic- The only issue is he could not have been seen with her at anytime going in or out or really anywhere around the room.

    idk you're talking about a guy that just abducted a little girl in daylight around her friends & across the street from a PD , he's pretty bold / arrogant. I can't overlook that and then say that anything else he does has to follow any logical scenario we might think he is following, he is already doing the unexpected but he has it nailed down, he has a plan and he's following it.

    I just can't believe that plan is to drive all the way to Ruggles from Bay Village. He knows he has about 20 minutes before she is going to know that this is getting ugly, he has to be prepared for that he knows too much about how she will react to not know how much time he has before she knows. What makes sense to me is that he has a place prepared to take her while he's still in the vicinity & before he totally loses her confidence, he doesn't know what he gets after she does.

    On google maps

    ( not sure its relevant, don't know if the super 8 was even there at the time but it looks like a 60's or early 70's structure to me )

    It looks like the back of the hotel has separate entries or at least one back entry, and that is most likely a truckers motel looking at the rear parking, probably not much happening back there, I wouldn't just assume that he doesn't do that. I think something like that is his most logical choice,

    Keep in mind he basically nabbed her in front of her friends, he's pretty bold/arrogant or maybe he just doesn't care that much if he gets caught idk but he had to go somewhere, yes I remember those phones now, possibility, there was not much cord on them as I remember it being restrictive, I was probably 250 in those days maybe it was better for a skinny guy or a little kid but I don't think there was much cord on them, but if so does that place Amy in the backseat of the car and make it a sedan, or does he pull up to it on the wrong side ? So many ifs,

    So with the knife I guess it sounds like he is just killing her with a knife with no other intent of trying to drain her blood or something, I don't even know if that is possible honestly. I thought more of that pointing to a dentist someone that would know that stuff, she weighs what about 80 pounds and he's gotta be around maybe 180lbs I would guess from the description why did he need a knife, did he kill her in her sleep ? Do they know if the wounds were done from behind ?

    I have a hard time believing that he went directly to New London with her, that is a long way to go and she surely would be on to him by that time, he does need to drive the vehicle and try to control her, I gotta believe she died where the call was from and if not then I guess she died at his house or property in New London / Ruggles area.

    All in all, I know the stuff I have seen so far has Runkle written all over it but ti does seem to be circumstantial and if I listen to my gut this was done by the dentist, how she ends up on 1181 in that case is a question mark but who knows, you gotta figure if it is Runkle why is he dumping her there, I mean he's not stupid and how can you have this abduction planned out so carefully then drop the body in a place where you know you are going to be the only suspect from that area once they find her because if you weren't already a suspect you were soon to be one once the body was found right ? I mean doesn't the investigation at that point get geared toward the people in that area that also have business in the north, there are not that many people in that area driving that trek ? but I get that they didn't have google search options back then maybe not so easy to find where people work and live.

    I believe the dentist and Runkle went to the same college, not sure if it was at the same time, I wonder what are the chances that those 2 randomly knew each other ?

    Let's do a for instance, let's say the body wasn't found in Ruggles, from that point who believes that Runkle killed her ? How much of the case against Runkle is predicated on where the body was found, is there any other real evidence ?

    To my knowledge they can't find evidence of him being at the nature center or anywhere else that Amy or her parents may have been ?

    The dentist does not have a verifiable alibi for the time, it was said that he often missed Fridays although he seems to be a taller guy and in at least the one soccer pic has a mustache. It was said that he made a phone call to one of the girls on his soccer team and asked her if he could be her boyfriend. That's pretty creepy stuff, can't overlook that.

    idk so 3 things, 3 scenarios,

    1, Runkle kills her in the vicinity
    2, Runkle kills her near Ruggles
    3, The dentist does this in the vicinity.

    Runkle didn't put himself around girls exclusively, can't say that for the dentist.

    Thanks for the thoughts, info and replies Nic. Lets hope someone can help them get this guy, it would be nice if they could before the 30th anniversary.

    Anything on a comprehensive site ? ( that is not a slight to what you do here, please don't take it that way )

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    I watched something last night that was enlightening and found out that apparently they know something about the third site (100%) something in the autopsy which isn't mentioned in public, and that there are some fibers from a car interior that is similar to Runkle's but its not solid due to the possibility that the car has the wrong vin on it, for now I guess its not a match. So I wonder, is this really a whodunit or is it an evidence hunt for the guy that the authorities know did it. Is there really even circumstantial evidence on Runkle ? I would have to say that there is circumstantial evidence that some circumstantial evidence exists but I don't think you can call it circumstantial evidence yet. I haven't seen anything that puts him at any of the 3 sites or a site that he could get her info at other than he may or may not walk or run down 1181, He may or may not have volunteered at the science center, fibers may or may not be from his car, a car similar to his may or may not have been seen near the abduction site. These things aren't even circumstantial evidence , they need a little work just to become circumstantial. My opinion of him and other reasons it may not be him. I don't think he is a killer at heart, if he killed her it was probably as a last resort in survival mode. I think he probably liked boys and not so much girls, everything about him says that. I don't buy the prepubescent talk, it may be true that for these types that it doesn't matter but you really need to get in touch with more parents and talk to them if you believe a girl that was almost 11 is sure to be prepubescent ? I have 3 daughters and I was buying their necessities by that time and I know it wasn't anything out of the ordinary, I would drop the prepubescent part of that profile. If you really believe that he likes men/boys or prepubescent children because he sees them as the same then I would write him off, - he didn't call any boys. He just doesn't seem like the type of guy that can, or even wants to get on a phone, let alone pull that off. I think that would take a little more experience & willingness or a great deal more knowledge of Amy's family. Going through logs at the science center for info and then only coming up with 2 more girls that received calls, seems kind of odd, would think that there would be more. Even odder is that those 2 lived in the same burb and its not the one Amy is in. So only 3 girls from a log of how many ? Is he matching these logs up to yearbooks or something ? If he volunteered at the science center, isn't there a document somewhere or isn't there a person that was in charge that remembers him ? A co-worker ? Any adult ? This may have already been proven but I haven't seen that anywhere, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to prove though, if its not proven by now I gotta think its probably just not true. If you take out the science center logs, what's left to tie him to the 3 girls ? No visitor logs told him that there was a change at her mother's job, the abductor knew that there was, this was a very small change not very notable to anyone outside their family, maybe their banker,butcher,hair dresser, neighbor etc but a very small circle. How the heck does Runkle find this out ? He just seems like such a loner. So I see why they keep looking , even the circumstantial evidence needs to have a bit of shoring up, I see why this is so hard now. On another guy There is also circumstantial evidence for the dentist in NO, we know that guy was all about young girls. He lived, worked,traveled and coached soccer in N. Olmsted & was in Bay often enough to possibly have some contact with Amy or her parents. If he lived in New London or had a tie to Ruggles he would be more of a suspect than Runkle is. He's a doctor he's an intelligent guy he's probably the smartest suspect so even though its a risk to take a body that far away its more of a risk to have it found in N.Olmsted. And really, if you are going to Ruggles and your car doesn't break down and you are within an acceptable speed the chances of you getting stopped are almost nil. I've driven route 60 many many times and I don't even recall seeing a trooper or a local policeman north of 224. It's really a dead area speed trap wise, you'll see a lot more SMV's than police. Suspects by what is known to me. Runkle Dentist in N. Olmsted. //////////////////////////////////////////////// Suspects by logic Dentist in N. Olmsted Metro Parks guy Runkle. If its Runkle I believe we're missing a huge tie to Amy somewhere, -- Try to find that !!! I'm going to focus on that tie, it seems like the most realistic chance to be productive for armchair guys. I doubt that he cold-called her with as little info as stated by Amy to her friends & brother ? I would like to know what is in that autopsy that makes them believe that they know what type of site she was at. Is it a freezer burn or something or some other injury specific to a piece of equipment, well water , what is it ?

    I watched something last night that was enlightening and found out that apparently they know something about the third site (100%) something in the autopsy which isn't mentioned in public, and that there are some fibers from a car interior that is similar to Runkle's but its not solid due to the possibility that the car has the wrong vin on it, for now I guess its not a match.

    So I wonder, is this really a whodunit or is it an evidence hunt for the guy that the authorities know did it.

    Is there really even circumstantial evidence on Runkle ?

    I would have to say that there is circumstantial evidence that some circumstantial evidence exists but I don't think you can call it circumstantial evidence yet.

    I haven't seen anything that puts him at any of the 3 sites or a site that he could get her info at other than he may or may not walk or run down 1181, He may or may not have volunteered at the science center, fibers may or may not be from his car, a car similar to his may or may not have been seen near the abduction site. These things aren't even circumstantial evidence , they need a little work just to become circumstantial.

    My opinion of him and other reasons it may not be him.

    I don't think he is a killer at heart, if he killed her it was probably as a last resort in survival mode.

    I think he probably liked boys and not so much girls, everything about him says that. I don't buy the prepubescent talk, it may be true that for these types that it doesn't matter but you really need to get in touch with more parents and talk to them if you believe a girl that was almost 11 is sure to be prepubescent ? I have 3 daughters and I was buying their necessities by that time and I know it wasn't anything out of the ordinary, I would drop the prepubescent part of that profile. If you really believe that he likes men/boys or prepubescent children because he sees them as the same then I would write him off, - he didn't call any boys.

    He just doesn't seem like the type of guy that can, or even wants to get on a phone, let alone pull that off. I think that would take a little more experience & willingness or a great deal more knowledge of Amy's family.

    Going through logs at the science center for info and then only coming up with 2 more girls that received calls, seems kind of odd, would think that there would be more. Even odder is that those 2 lived in the same burb and its not the one Amy is in. So only 3 girls from a log of how many ? Is he matching these logs up to yearbooks or something ?

    If he volunteered at the science center, isn't there a document somewhere or isn't there a person that was in charge that remembers him ? A co-worker ? Any adult ? This may have already been proven but I haven't seen that anywhere, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to prove though, if its not proven by now I gotta think its probably just not true.

    If you take out the science center logs, what's left to tie him to the 3 girls ?

    No visitor logs told him that there was a change at her mother's job, the abductor knew that there was, this was a very small change not very notable to anyone outside their family, maybe their banker,butcher,hair dresser, neighbor etc but a very small circle. How the heck does Runkle find this out ? He just seems like such a loner.

    So I see why they keep looking , even the circumstantial evidence needs to have a bit of shoring up, I see why this is so hard now.

    On another guy

    There is also circumstantial evidence for the dentist in NO, we know that guy was all about young girls. He lived, worked,traveled and coached soccer in N. Olmsted & was in Bay often enough to possibly have some contact with Amy or her parents. If he lived in New London or had a tie to Ruggles he would be more of a suspect than Runkle is.

    He's a doctor he's an intelligent guy he's probably the smartest suspect so even though its a risk to take a body that far away its more of a risk to have it found in N.Olmsted. And really, if you are going to Ruggles and your car doesn't break down and you are within an acceptable speed the chances of you getting stopped are almost nil.

    I've driven route 60 many many times and I don't even recall seeing a trooper or a local policeman north of 224. It's really a dead area speed trap wise, you'll see a lot more SMV's than police.

    Suspects by what is known to me.

    Runkle

    Dentist in N. Olmsted.

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Suspects by logic

    Dentist in N. Olmsted

    Metro Parks guy

    Runkle.

    If its Runkle I believe we're missing a huge tie to Amy somewhere, -- Try to find that !!!

    I'm going to focus on that tie, it seems like the most realistic chance to be productive for armchair guys.

    I doubt that he cold-called her with as little info as stated by Amy to her friends & brother ?

    I would like to know what is in that autopsy that makes them believe that they know what type of site she was at. Is it a freezer burn or something or some other injury specific to a piece of equipment, well water , what is it ?

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    This is difficult to follow I listened to a podcast yesterday that said that there was an album of pictures found in a storage unit of Dean Runkel's. In one of the pics it has a pic of Dean's car, was it a Gran Prix or a Grand AM ? They didn't say. Also another site says that he was compliant with background checks and his prints were taken. What is true here did he comply or not ? If he was compliant why did he leave town, and even at that he's certainly been entitled to his retirement pay for a while now hasn't he ? He graduated college in 66, so he's probably born around 44, is he really 75 now the pic that was taken in key west looks like a 50 year old ? Why is he living in shelters & flipping burgers if he has retirement money ? Teachers generally get pretty good retirement pay at least enough to get an apartment. On a Facebook page that looks like its his he has two public page likes, one is the lake Erie Nature & Science Center, why would he do that ? Is he taunting ? Is he innocent and just pissed that you think he did it ? Is he just an A-hole ? The other is the city of Amherst. I saw a news clip of him receiving an award for teacher of the week, its some time after 89. I think I've been wrong about the guy, he's certainly capable of making those phone calls and he's quite full of himself. I believe he is only interested in boys, I think he just hates females period regardless of age. I don't understand why no one can come up with evidence that he volunteered at the science center can someone explain that reason ? I mean they were on to that tie to the other girls fairly early on right ? Wouldn't there have been a list of volunteers , workers, made out pretty early on ? Has any adult said; "yes I have seen Mr Runkle here on occasion" ? Come on do they not manage the place it sounds like they just open the doors and let the visitors take over , that can't be true hopefully. In that photo album which I can't find online he captions some pics, in one he says "I'm the one you're looking for", more taunting ? There's a lot of info out there, but quite honestly its all muddied up, there doesn't seem to be anywhere that you can go to just get facts. So although this is intriguing and I've become a little hooked it, I'm just spinning my wheels at this point, one site says something another site refutes it. My final thoughts on this. 1.) You most likely have the wrong profile if its Runkle, this guy hates females it doesn't matter what age they are he just hates them. 2.) Most of the witnesses, even for the circumstantial evidence were children. 3.) The car fibers probably don't match Runkle's car. 4.) The body probably laid in a field for months covered in those blankets, those broke loose by nature or animals then she was found. 5.) I doubt that the hair that is "similar" to Amy's dog can even hold up in court. I haven't heard anyone say that was a definite match. 6.) There are two sketches usually posted together one has glasses the other does not this is from two separate kids looking at the same guy at the same time, frames were bigger back then and pronounced not like wire frames now where you can hardly tell someone is wearing glasses, these sketches combined look like half the white adult male population under 50 at the time. Why does he get described as bushy hair but the sketches don't reflect that ? 7.) Bushy hair does not describe Runkle in 89, maybe in high school but not in 89 you can clearly see that in the video. his hair looks typical but it does look like the sketch which is not bushy, just as much as millions of other males in 89, I looked like that sketch in 89 and so did most of my friends. 8.) In general on the net about 90% of the info is a case being built with one suspect in mind. If it is that guy and they know it that's fine but I do believe that some of the info is being molded to fit the desired outcome. It may prove to be the correct outcome but why do that. idk, but oh well this gets frustrating and no point in me looking at it any longer I'm not going to be any help, and there really isn't much more to look at on the net, earrings, folder, boots, curtain, blanket, pictures, sketches, a little bit about the autopsy basically she got hit in the head and stabbed in the neck and bled to death, there isn't even a consensus of whether she was sexually assaulted or not. I get that they can't just throw this info out there but most of what is out there is muddied up and is essentially guesswork & hearsay and one site refutes the another, there isn't even a consensus on what is available to the public. Well I hope that they get the right person and that family gets some closure soon before the person dies, this guy could already be dead or dying, he's probably in his 70's by now if he is even alive. See you on the next big job

    This is difficult to follow

    I listened to a podcast yesterday that said that there was an album of pictures found in a storage unit of Dean Runkel's. In one of the pics it has a pic of Dean's car, was it a Gran Prix or a Grand AM ? They didn't say.

    Also another site says that he was compliant with background checks and his prints were taken. What is true here did he comply or not ?

    If he was compliant why did he leave town, and even at that he's certainly been entitled to his retirement pay for a while now hasn't he ? He graduated college in 66, so he's probably born around 44, is he really 75 now the pic that was taken in key west looks like a 50 year old ? Why is he living in shelters & flipping burgers if he has retirement money ? Teachers generally get pretty good retirement pay at least enough to get an apartment.

    On a Facebook page that looks like its his he has two public page likes, one is the lake Erie Nature & Science Center, why would he do that ? Is he taunting ? Is he innocent and just pissed that you think he did it ? Is he just an A-hole ? The other is the city of Amherst.

    I saw a news clip of him receiving an award for teacher of the week, its some time after 89. I think I've been wrong about the guy, he's certainly capable of making those phone calls and he's quite full of himself. I believe he is only interested in boys, I think he just hates females period regardless of age.

    I don't understand why no one can come up with evidence that he volunteered at the science center can someone explain that reason ? I mean they were on to that tie to the other girls fairly early on right ? Wouldn't there have been a list of volunteers , workers, made out pretty early on ? Has any adult said; "yes I have seen Mr Runkle here on occasion" ? Come on do they not manage the place it sounds like they just open the doors and let the visitors take over , that can't be true hopefully.

    In that photo album which I can't find online he captions some pics, in one he says "I'm the one you're looking for", more taunting ?

    There's a lot of info out there, but quite honestly its all muddied up, there doesn't seem to be anywhere that you can go to just get facts. So although this is intriguing and I've become a little hooked it, I'm just spinning my wheels at this point, one site says something another site refutes it.

    My final thoughts on this.

    1.) You most likely have the wrong profile if its Runkle, this guy hates females it doesn't matter what age they are he just hates them.

    2.) Most of the witnesses, even for the circumstantial evidence were children.

    3.) The car fibers probably don't match Runkle's car.

    4.) The body probably laid in a field for months covered in those blankets, those broke loose by nature or animals then she was found.

    5.) I doubt that the hair that is "similar" to Amy's dog can even hold up in court. I haven't heard anyone say that was a definite match.

    6.) There are two sketches usually posted together one has glasses the other does not this is from two separate kids looking at the same guy at the same time, frames were bigger back then and pronounced not like wire frames now where you can hardly tell someone is wearing glasses, these sketches combined look like half the white adult male population under 50 at the time. Why does he get described as bushy hair but the sketches don't reflect that ?

    7.) Bushy hair does not describe Runkle in 89, maybe in high school but not in 89 you can clearly see that in the video. his hair looks typical but it does look like the sketch which is not bushy, just as much as millions of other males in 89, I looked like that sketch in 89 and so did most of my friends.

    8.) In general on the net about 90% of the info is a case being built with one suspect in mind. If it is that guy and they know it that's fine but I do believe that some of the info is being molded to fit the desired outcome. It may prove to be the correct outcome but why do that.

    idk, but oh well this gets frustrating and no point in me looking at it any longer I'm not going to be any help, and there really isn't much more to look at on the net, earrings, folder, boots, curtain, blanket, pictures, sketches, a little bit about the autopsy basically she got hit in the head and stabbed in the neck and bled to death, there isn't even a consensus of whether she was sexually assaulted or not. I get that they can't just throw this info out there but most of what is out there is muddied up and is essentially guesswork & hearsay and one site refutes the another, there isn't even a consensus on what is available to the public.

    Well I hope that they get the right person and that family gets some closure soon before the person dies, this guy could already be dead or dying, he's probably in his 70's by now if he is even alive. See you on the next big job

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    J - give me some time and I'll try to address these posts later this week. I have a stacked day and you have put a lot out there with a ton of good thought on everything. I will hit something real quick right here... When I said he can't be seen with Amy going in or out or anywhere around the hotel/motel - I didn't say this because of his choice of movements. I say this because no one came forward to report that. They were looking for her that night, picture on the news - everyone looking the next morning. This would have been so fresh in the heads of everyone. If they were spotted it would have been reported. We would know about this - there would have been some vague release out there to the public... a man was spotted near the " " with someone that resembled Amy... Of course - this is unsolved for a reason, likely many... & I might be wrong just speculating. I'll get back and address all soon. Cheers j - Nic

    J - give me some time and I'll try to address these posts later this week. I have a stacked day and you have put a lot out there with a ton of good thought on everything. I will hit something real quick right here...
    When I said he can't be seen with Amy going in or out or anywhere around the hotel/motel - I didn't say this because of his choice of movements. I say this because no one came forward to report that. They were looking for her that night, picture on the news - everyone looking the next morning. This would have been so fresh in the heads of everyone. If they were spotted it would have been reported. We would know about this - there would have been some vague release out there to the public... a man was spotted near the " " with someone that resembled Amy...
    Of course - this is unsolved for a reason, likely many... & I might be wrong just speculating.
    I'll get back and address all soon.
    Cheers j - Nic

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    True, she could have been hit in the head and driven straight to New London- with the exception of stopping for the phone call, which would probably be before she got hit in the head, not sure because it doesn't say how devastating that was, was it slight or maybe a slight concussion or was it debilitating who knows. So if we're trying to map out the logic here, we're a little stuck at the question of was it a call made from in the car or out of the car, as you say out-of-car calls ( or stops ) present a considerable risk to his identification, however it would also be hard to physically have her make that call from inside the car, those phones were not given enough cord to let them hit the ground, and from what I recall they were much shorter as think about it the longer that cord was the more the phones would have been abused by the public think of a slinging motion against a wall or people just driving of without hanging them up and they are a choke/tangle hazard therefore it was of benefit to the manufacturer to make them a short as possible. If I understand the car correctly it was a Grand Am, not sure which model year but I am assuming that was a 2 door vehicle, that makes the logistic even harder unless I guess he could have pulled up on the passenger side, I don't think at this pint he would have her crawl over him to get to that phone to talk to her mother so she would have her back to him while hanging up do they know if she was struck in the back or from the front ? Also on that thought she would not be able to see what he may have reached for while she was on the phone, hmmm makes me wonder , you may be on to something with that drive up phone call. From there if she is incapacitated its a cakewalk to get to new London with her. This may be the most plausible scenario because it virtually wipes out a 4th spot since we can almost assume that he took her to his property at some point because they have this item in the autopsy that points to a third location. I'm thinking that hit to the head would have to be on her right side & probably from behind in this case or at least slightly to her right if not completely from behind, he wouldn't have room to swing from his left to her left, any hit made inside the car though would need to be with a heavier object to do any damage maybe a flapjack, he doesn't look like a guy that is going to hurt anyone with a fist and I doubt he trusts that he could, there just isn't much swing room from either hand really, other than a hit to the head how does he keep her restrained for the rest of the ride to New London ? A flapjack seems plausible here it fits this scenario. From other things I've seen since my previous posts I am 99.9% that it's Runkle, that page like on his Fb page seals that up for me, he is taunting the authorities which from the very beginning has been part of what this has been about for him I think that is clear now, he did it across the street from them and now 25+ years later continues to taunt them, its a game to him. What does he have against them ? On another note, what seems to be a common assumption in these cases is that items are kept for trophies this may be true idk I mean I guess they would know, but they also serve the purpose of keeping items that may hold their own fingerprint on them, in Amy's case its boots that look like the type that could, earrings, and that binder, maybe they are kept for dual purposes maybe just fingerprints and I guess maybe just trophies but that seems less likely to me. Let's see if the loser is brave enough to post one of the items & play the game at a little higher stake.

    True, she could have been hit in the head and driven straight to New London- with the exception of stopping for the phone call, which would probably be before she got hit in the head, not sure because it doesn't say how devastating that was, was it slight or maybe a slight concussion or was it debilitating who knows.

    So if we're trying to map out the logic here, we're a little stuck at the question of was it a call made from in the car or out of the car, as you say out-of-car calls ( or stops ) present a considerable risk to his identification, however it would also be hard to physically have her make that call from inside the car, those phones were not given enough cord to let them hit the ground, and from what I recall they were much shorter as think about it the longer that cord was the more the phones would have been abused by the public think of a slinging motion against a wall or people just driving of without hanging them up and they are a choke/tangle hazard therefore it was of benefit to the manufacturer to make them a short as possible.

    If I understand the car correctly it was a Grand Am, not sure which model year but I am assuming that was a 2 door vehicle, that makes the logistic even harder unless I guess he could have pulled up on the passenger side, I don't think at this pint he would have her crawl over him to get to that phone to talk to her mother so she would have her back to him while hanging up do they know if she was struck in the back or from the front ? Also on that thought she would not be able to see what he may have reached for while she was on the phone, hmmm makes me wonder , you may be on to something with that drive up phone call.

    From there if she is incapacitated its a cakewalk to get to new London with her. This may be the most plausible scenario because it virtually wipes out a 4th spot since we can almost assume that he took her to his property at some point because they have this item in the autopsy that points to a third location. I'm thinking that hit to the head would have to be on her right side & probably from behind in this case or at least slightly to her right if not completely from behind, he wouldn't have room to swing from his left to her left, any hit made inside the car though would need to be with a heavier object to do any damage maybe a flapjack, he doesn't look like a guy that is going to hurt anyone with a fist and I doubt he trusts that he could, there just isn't much swing room from either hand really, other than a hit to the head how does he keep her restrained for the rest of the ride to New London ? A flapjack seems plausible here it fits this scenario.

    From other things I've seen since my previous posts I am 99.9% that it's Runkle, that page like on his Fb page seals that up for me, he is taunting the authorities which from the very beginning has been part of what this has been about for him I think that is clear now, he did it across the street from them and now 25+ years later continues to taunt them, its a game to him. What does he have against them ?

    On another note, what seems to be a common assumption in these cases is that items are kept for trophies this may be true idk I mean I guess they would know, but they also serve the purpose of keeping items that may hold their own fingerprint on them, in Amy's case its boots that look like the type that could, earrings, and that binder, maybe they are kept for dual purposes maybe just fingerprints and I guess maybe just trophies but that seems less likely to me. Let's see if the loser is brave enough to post one of the items & play the game at a little higher stake.

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Does anyone know if the policeman that was giving the talk on strangers to the kids at the school that day had a squad car there and what time he left if he did ? Could the vehicle be seen from Wolf Road ? If not, where could it be seen from ? Such an odd coincidence, not implying anything at all toward a policeman, just trying to see how brazen the abductor was. How far in advance would the children have known about the assembly and would the parents know about it ahead of time ?

    Does anyone know if the policeman that was giving the talk on strangers to the kids at the school that day had a squad car there and what time he left if he did ? Could the vehicle be seen from Wolf Road ? If not, where could it be seen from ? Such an odd coincidence, not implying anything at all toward a policeman, just trying to see how brazen the abductor was. How far in advance would the children have known about the assembly and would the parents know about it ahead of time ?

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Well after further review it looks like his Facebook page is probably fake. So back to the drawing board :( I think I have to go back to the beginning, I would be OK if you deleted my previous posts as this one will be different and I've learned a considerable amount since I started. Since my last post I listened to several more podcasts, you guys all know and work with each other on these so no secret which ones I been listening to. I also did some other searching and etc. I have to break this down into a few columns Reasons its probably not the teacher, Reasons that it may be the teacher, What are the most logical conclusions to some questions to help fill in some gaps as there just isn't much hard info to go on so how else do you work with that. Reasons it may not be him 1.) He didn’t call any boys - this is so significant to me 2.) The VIN of his car doesn’t match the fibers. 3.) Why would he do it , he just got a new job teaching and seems like he was totally immersed in it. Why's he going to go kill a ten year old right now. 4.) No one has said he was at the science center in the few weeks before the 27th. The people that say he was there or took them there don’t actually say when. These students would have barely known him in October of 89. 5.) He was suspected of the girl in California then DNA recently showed that it was someone else and that guy was convicted. 6.) Nothing I can find even suggests that he is a violent person before or after Amy. 7.) He went to work on schedule that next week. ( assumption ) 8.) If he does groom kids a phone call wasn’t his MO , he does it through work , over time, in person, not a couple of random phone calls to an unknown girl. 9.) Evidence says he was into boys - Amy was a girl. ( I don't buy the prepubescent argument, that just sounds silly ). 10.) Why would he leave a body there in the open to be found. Why would he do that . If you were him you’d have to think if they find her body near my house my chances of being suspected just skyrocketed . You could almost make the argument that it would be so stupid to do that that it can’t be him because he just can’t be that stupid. 11.) The dog hair isn’t proven to be Amy’s dog and there is a pretty fair chance that it isn't. 12.) There are a lack of adults in all of the presumed circumstantial evidences against him. 13.) He should have been at work in Amherst during the time that the abduction occurred, it sounds like it would be odd that he missed any time at all, do any of his students remember ? 14.) He has no history of abuse with any female. 15.) He doesn't seem to fit the FBI profile. 16.) He was probably still at his school when these phone calls were made. 17.) Unless I have it wrong the dog hair is what ties the blanket to Amy, yet the dog hair isn't a 100% match is this correct ? Can those blankets/curtain possibly be meaningless ? 18.) I saw recent pictures of him he's not really a guy I would look at and think that he could do this. I've never felt in my gut that this was the guy and I still don't, I know this doesn't mean much but he actually seems pretty harmless and for whatever reason was working on good causes down in Florida, I mean I get it you don't have to be a certain size or look to have that in you but maybe he just couldn't handle being a suspect, maybe he thought he was about to be framed, maybe he's paranoid, maybe he was just breaking down or something, who knows what he was thinking but leaving wasn't a crime or an admission of guilt. I don't buy that he was afraid of being fingerprinted, that makes no sense unless there is a totally separate crime he's worried about, but there is also conflicting reports on whether or not he complied with that, I hear there that the protested to one of the school officials about it , I think that isn't so abnormal, when drug tests came along there were many that refused many of them were the cleanest people they just didn't like the invasion. Eventually they took them and all was fine, it was just a protest it wasn't a complete refusal to comply. Reasons that it could be him. 1.) He may have had access to their phone numbers & addresses after seeing them at the science center. 2.) He may have been able to be there if he left work a little early. 3.) He looks like the sketches 4.) The body was found 50 miles from the abduction site but only 2 miles from his home. 5.) The curtain looks like something that would come from a rural area type of home and he lived in a rural area. 6 ) He quit teaching and left the area sometime after he became a suspect. 7.) He may or may not have been taunting authorities with some items he left in a storage unit Of those 7 items, #2, #3, #5, could have been a lot of people, #1 is not proven to be the source of the info its just a theory, #4 would really narrow it down but we don't know to who, but it does put him on the list of possibilities. #6 & #7 happened afterward & they are meaningless at this point because the investigation itself may have caused each of them. It sounds like there is nothing on him because let's face it, it wouldn't take much real evidence and he is still free, there's just theories and maybe some coincidences that could possibly turn into circumstantial evidence but that's not going to happen without physical evidence to fill in the gaps. So let's say for instance you find out that the fibers do match his car, that just makes it circumstantial unless you can rule every other car out. If you find something of Amy's in his possession that's different that's real evidence of guilt. If you get DNA to match or at least point to him with strong odds that's a conviction, but right now there isn't even circumstantial evidence on him. Would you agree that there really isn't circumstantial evidence on him ? I think a lot of the proposed circumstantial evidence is being brought out solely as a product of there just being a lack of evidence in general that points anywhere else but anywhere else could very well be where the killer is. Jumping to some what I think are logical conclusions with limited knowledge lol After hearing more about Margaret and their marriage relationship, I wouldn't be so quick to rule out that she knew the person, I'm not saying she knew this would happen but you never know who is listening when you're talking, he may have been exactly what he said he was. I've used the tradin times before, it was the go-to for buying used cars in the area, I do not recall ever being in touch with anyone as a person buying a vehicle but you are in touch with them when you list with them. 1.) Don't rule out that the abductor isn't what he said he was, a coworker or knew her through her work etc. 2.) Who's M.O. is it to make phone calls, which suspect fits that the best ? Its probably not the teacher. 3.) What teacher kills a 10 year old helpless little girl, how often does a teacher kill a student age kid, I'm not sure if I ever remember that happening, it sounds unheard of and I'd be willing to bet that if it does happen its probably a child that the teacher knew, not some random kid off a list of numbers that the teacher cold called. 4.) How does she end up on 1181, no idea but if I have it right the teacher lived in the same neighborhood as the girl in California that turned out not to be him, so maybe its coincidence, there is a high probability that others have a connection to that place, they just haven't been found yet or at least not published. 5.) Why was she laid there in the open it doesn't look like much of an attempt to hide her, would make me think that the killer is thinking I just have to dump her out here in the middle of nowhere and get the hell out of here they'll never tie me to this place ( because he lives nowhere near it ) I would think if it was the teacher and knew the area which he did and he was going to do that that close to home he would have found some woods or just buried her somewhere , it doesn't look like there was any shortage of better places to hide her body in that area. let's face it he may not even be a suspect except that the body is within two mile of home, maybe eventually he gets asked some questions but as I understand it he has been interviewed a few times, I'm sure they asked him what they needed to. 6.) Margaret was an alcoholic she wasn't reliable , no way she knew for certain what she told to who at any given time. 7.) Why is there so little DNA ? 8.) What did he really say when he bent over to talk to Amy, did he give her the code ? Did he give her the code on one of the phone calls ? Let's not blame Amy for breaking the rule we should assume that she stayed within them until its proven that she didn't. I'd rather make the assumption that he knew the code and take it from there. She just got out of an assembly about stranger danger, it only makes sense that he was not a stranger, it sounds like he had he code. My conclusion, this thing is still wide open and that DNA is desperately needed to point to someone specific, whether its the teacher or whoever hopefully the person is in the database, if that is even possible with the type of sample they have. I no longer believe the teacher is involved, he was mid-forties never did anything like it up to that point then never did anything like it after, I just don't think its him. He just started a new job doing what he professed to love and he seems to keep himself pretty busy with his other hobbies otherwise, I just don't think that was a time that he would have done this, it doesn't add up.

    Well after further review it looks like his Facebook page is probably fake. So back to the drawing board frown

    I think I have to go back to the beginning, I would be OK if you deleted my previous posts as this one will be different and I've learned a considerable amount since I started.

    Since my last post I listened to several more podcasts, you guys all know and work with each other on these so no secret which ones I been listening to. I also did some other searching and etc.

    I have to break this down into a few columns

    Reasons its probably not the teacher,
    Reasons that it may be the teacher,
    What are the most logical conclusions to some questions to help fill in some gaps as there just isn't much hard info to go on so how else do you work with that.

    Reasons it may not be him

    1.) He didn’t call any boys - this is so significant to me

    2.) The VIN of his car doesn’t match the fibers.

    3.) Why would he do it , he just got a new job teaching and seems like he was totally immersed in it. Why's he going to go kill a ten year old right now.

    4.) No one has said he was at the science center in the few weeks before the 27th. The people that say he was there or took them there don’t actually say when. These students would have barely known him in October of 89.

    5.) He was suspected of the girl in California then DNA recently showed that it was someone else and that guy was convicted.

    6.) Nothing I can find even suggests that he is a violent person before or after Amy.

    7.) He went to work on schedule that next week. ( assumption )

    8.) If he does groom kids a phone call wasn’t his MO , he does it through work , over time, in person, not a couple of random phone calls to an unknown girl.

    9.) Evidence says he was into boys - Amy was a girl. ( I don't buy the prepubescent argument, that just sounds silly ).

    10.) Why would he leave a body there in the open to be found. Why would he do that . If you were him you’d have to think if they find her body near my house my chances of being suspected just skyrocketed . You could almost make the argument that it would be so stupid to do that that it can’t be him because he just can’t be that stupid.

    11.) The dog hair isn’t proven to be Amy’s dog and there is a pretty fair chance that it isn't.

    12.) There are a lack of adults in all of the presumed circumstantial evidences against him.

    13.) He should have been at work in Amherst during the time that the abduction occurred, it sounds like it would be odd that he missed any time at all, do any of his students remember ?

    14.) He has no history of abuse with any female.

    15.) He doesn't seem to fit the FBI profile.

    16.) He was probably still at his school when these phone calls were made.

    17.) Unless I have it wrong the dog hair is what ties the blanket to Amy, yet the dog hair isn't a 100% match is this correct ? Can those blankets/curtain possibly be meaningless ?

    18.) I saw recent pictures of him he's not really a guy I would look at and think that he could do this.

    I've never felt in my gut that this was the guy and I still don't, I know this doesn't mean much but he actually seems pretty harmless and for whatever reason was working on good causes down in Florida, I mean I get it you don't have to be a certain size or look to have that in you but maybe he just couldn't handle being a suspect, maybe he thought he was about to be framed, maybe he's paranoid, maybe he was just breaking down or something, who knows what he was thinking but leaving wasn't a crime or an admission of guilt.

    I don't buy that he was afraid of being fingerprinted, that makes no sense unless there is a totally separate crime he's worried about, but there is also conflicting reports on whether or not he complied with that, I hear there that the protested to one of the school officials about it , I think that isn't so abnormal, when drug tests came along there were many that refused many of them were the cleanest people they just didn't like the invasion. Eventually they took them and all was fine, it was just a protest it wasn't a complete refusal to comply.

    Reasons that it could be him.

    1.) He may have had access to their phone numbers & addresses after seeing them at the science center.

    2.) He may have been able to be there if he left work a little early.

    3.) He looks like the sketches

    4.) The body was found 50 miles from the abduction site but only 2 miles from his home.

    5.) The curtain looks like something that would come from a rural area type of home and he lived in a rural area.

    6 ) He quit teaching and left the area sometime after he became a suspect.

    7.) He may or may not have been taunting authorities with some items he left in a storage unit

    Of those 7 items, #2, #3, #5, could have been a lot of people, #1 is not proven to be the source of the info its just a theory, #4 would really narrow it down but we don't know to who, but it does put him on the list of possibilities. #6 & #7 happened afterward & they are meaningless at this point because the investigation itself may have caused each of them.

    It sounds like there is nothing on him because let's face it, it wouldn't take much real evidence and he is still free, there's just theories and maybe some coincidences that could possibly turn into circumstantial evidence but that's not going to happen without physical evidence to fill in the gaps.

    So let's say for instance you find out that the fibers do match his car, that just makes it circumstantial unless you can rule every other car out. If you find something of Amy's in his possession that's different that's real evidence of guilt. If you get DNA to match or at least point to him with strong odds that's a conviction, but right now there isn't even circumstantial evidence on him.

    Would you agree that there really isn't circumstantial evidence on him ? I think a lot of the proposed circumstantial evidence is being brought out solely as a product of there just being a lack of evidence in general that points anywhere else but anywhere else could very well be where the killer is.

    Jumping to some what I think are logical conclusions with limited knowledge lol

    After hearing more about Margaret and their marriage relationship, I wouldn't be so quick to rule out that she knew the person, I'm not saying she knew this would happen but you never know who is listening when you're talking, he may have been exactly what he said he was.

    I've used the tradin times before, it was the go-to for buying used cars in the area, I do not recall ever being in touch with anyone as a person buying a vehicle but you are in touch with them when you list with them.

    1.) Don't rule out that the abductor isn't what he said he was, a coworker or knew her through her work etc.
    2.) Who's M.O. is it to make phone calls, which suspect fits that the best ? Its probably not the teacher.
    3.) What teacher kills a 10 year old helpless little girl, how often does a teacher kill a student age kid, I'm not sure if I ever remember that happening, it sounds unheard of and I'd be willing to bet that if it does happen its probably a child that the teacher knew, not some random kid off a list of numbers that the teacher cold called.

    4.) How does she end up on 1181, no idea but if I have it right the teacher lived in the same neighborhood as the girl in California that turned out not to be him, so maybe its coincidence, there is a high probability that others have a connection to that place, they just haven't been found yet or at least not published.

    5.) Why was she laid there in the open it doesn't look like much of an attempt to hide her, would make me think that the killer is thinking I just have to dump her out here in the middle of nowhere and get the hell out of here they'll never tie me to this place ( because he lives nowhere near it ) I would think if it was the teacher and knew the area which he did and he was going to do that that close to home he would have found some woods or just buried her somewhere , it doesn't look like there was any shortage of better places to hide her body in that area. let's face it he may not even be a suspect except that the body is within two mile of home, maybe eventually he gets asked some questions but as I understand it he has been interviewed a few times, I'm sure they asked him what they needed to.

    6.) Margaret was an alcoholic she wasn't reliable , no way she knew for certain what she told to who at any given time.

    7.) Why is there so little DNA ?

    8.) What did he really say when he bent over to talk to Amy, did he give her the code ? Did he give her the code on one of the phone calls ? Let's not blame Amy for breaking the rule we should assume that she stayed within them until its proven that she didn't. I'd rather make the assumption that he knew the code and take it from there. She just got out of an assembly about stranger danger, it only makes sense that he was not a stranger, it sounds like he had he code.

    My conclusion, this thing is still wide open and that DNA is desperately needed to point to someone specific, whether its the teacher or whoever hopefully the person is in the database, if that is even possible with the type of sample they have.

    I no longer believe the teacher is involved, he was mid-forties never did anything like it up to that point then never did anything like it after, I just don't think its him. He just started a new job doing what he professed to love and he seems to keep himself pretty busy with his other hobbies otherwise, I just don't think that was a time that he would have done this, it doesn't add up.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    The police man was the now chief of police for Bay Village. The Police station was just a block or so from the school and almost across the street from the shopping plaza. Nic

    The police man was the now chief of police for Bay Village. The Police station was just a block or so from the school and almost across the street from the shopping plaza.
    Nic

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Yep I know, I'm a little familiar with the area as it is now, not sure if that is how it was then but I'm wondering if there were a cruiser parked at the school or if he just walked over. Know what I mean ? As in, was the abductor aware that there was a cruiser at the school ?

    Yep I know, I'm a little familiar with the area as it is now, not sure if that is how it was then but I'm wondering if there were a cruiser parked at the school or if he just walked over. Know what I mean ? As in, was the abductor aware that there was a cruiser at the school ?

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    A couple more notes on the teacher, he had taken breaks from teaching twice prior in his career and didn't he take a break from school for a year before entering college ? , its not like someone that worked 29 years straight then decided one day to leave his career. He's always had eyes on other things, also he kept his car for quite a while after, even after they found her, would be nice to know who got rid of a vehicle either right after the abduction or right after she was found. I read that someone's description noted big round glasses, dark hair and a bald spot, the guy doesn't have a bald spot he has more hair in his 70's than most guys at 40, in that news video he has a very full head of hair and he was probably pushing 50 at that time. Also his hair was not dark, why is he even a suspect ? Given everything I can see I'm satisfied that it wasn't him. That makes it time to look at others but first let's clear a few things up, Let's stop calling 1181 a desolate area. That was not a very desolate area where the body was found, it was basically just off the intersection of 3 busy state routes . I would not call it desolate, I guess if you are on that road it can look desolate but a fast track to any direction you want to go is only a few minutes away, let's not count out anyone based on where the body was left as I would make the assumption that all of your suspects have been at least past this place once and probably more than once. 224, 60, and 250, are all main state routes, there is nothing desolate about them, rural mostly yes but not desolate, looking for that tie to 1181 seems to get in the way of rational thinking, there doesn't need to be much of a tie, its a long farming road off of a main road near some main intersections of busy state routes. That's not desolate. let's forget about how the phone numbers were found, we're better off not knowing than guessing at something that is most likely wrong, there are many ways to get numbers, focus more on why it was those girls chosen to be called because any log you look at is going to have many more names and numbers but its only these 3 why is that. Find out why Amy was the only one in Bay to be called even though that is where the nature center is located, throw that nature center stuff out it has nothing to do with this. let's be realistic about the killer, he was close to home he had to know some things, let's not complicate it. Knew Amy had that window after school where she was home alone. Knew that Amy had freedom to roam as long as she made a phone call. Knew the family's financial state Knew where Margaret worked and that she recently went to full time. There is only one person on that list of suspects that can know all that. it's the guy at the horse farm. Every other suspect with the exception of maybe the dentist that left the country can be crossed off the list. The only way the other dentist could still be a suspect is if he was Margaret's dentist or knew Margaret from the horse farm. That profiler was wrong about Strunak, its pretty simple do you think a guy with his skin condition is going to take off on a 3 hour ride and have to move a body around ,it doesn't sound like he even had gas money to get there and back. The metro-park guy likes boys not girls. The rest just don't fit. The problem with arm-chairing this is you just don’t know what is known or what is true about what info that there is out there , the reality is that this is an active and ongoing investigation , they aren’t going to put all that info out there. It’s not a game where if you get this answer right you get to move a step forward , you are not privy to even know if anything you based your theory on is even true, during the entire thing you have to second guess everything you see and read. There are just not many facts that are made public, so I'm calling it the most obvious person that matches things that in my opinion need to be matched, the horse guy is the only one that does. Sorry for the long posts, I think this will be the last one lol

    A couple more notes on the teacher, he had taken breaks from teaching twice prior in his career and didn't he take a break from school for a year before entering college ? , its not like someone that worked 29 years straight then decided one day to leave his career. He's always had eyes on other things, also he kept his car for quite a while after, even after they found her, would be nice to know who got rid of a vehicle either right after the abduction or right after she was found.

    I read that someone's description noted big round glasses, dark hair and a bald spot, the guy doesn't have a bald spot he has more hair in his 70's than most guys at 40, in that news video he has a very full head of hair and he was probably pushing 50 at that time. Also his hair was not dark, why is he even a suspect ? Given everything I can see I'm satisfied that it wasn't him.

    That makes it time to look at others but first let's clear a few things up,

    Let's stop calling 1181 a desolate area.

    That was not a very desolate area where the body was found, it was basically just off the intersection of 3 busy state routes . I would not call it desolate, I guess if you are on that road it can look desolate but a fast track to any direction you want to go is only a few minutes away, let's not count out anyone based on where the body was left as I would make the assumption that all of your suspects have been at least past this place once and probably more than once. 224, 60, and 250, are all main state routes, there is nothing desolate about them, rural mostly yes but not desolate, looking for that tie to 1181 seems to get in the way of rational thinking, there doesn't need to be much of a tie, its a long farming road off of a main road near some main intersections of busy state routes. That's not desolate.

    let's forget about how the phone numbers were found, we're better off not knowing than guessing at something that is most likely wrong, there are many ways to get numbers, focus more on why it was those girls chosen to be called because any log you look at is going to have many more names and numbers but its only these 3 why is that. Find out why Amy was the only one in Bay to be called even though that is where the nature center is located, throw that nature center stuff out it has nothing to do with this.

    let's be realistic about the killer, he was close to home he had to know some things, let's not complicate it.

    Knew Amy had that window after school where she was home alone.

    Knew that Amy had freedom to roam as long as she made a phone call.

    Knew the family's financial state

    Knew where Margaret worked and that she recently went to full time.

    There is only one person on that list of suspects that can know all that.

    it's the guy at the horse farm.

    Every other suspect with the exception of maybe the dentist that left the country can be crossed off the list.

    The only way the other dentist could still be a suspect is if he was Margaret's dentist or knew Margaret from the horse farm.

    That profiler was wrong about Strunak, its pretty simple do you think a guy with his skin condition is going to take off on a 3 hour ride and have to move a body around ,it doesn't sound like he even had gas money to get there and back.

    The metro-park guy likes boys not girls.

    The rest just don't fit.

    The problem with arm-chairing this is you just don’t know what is known or what is true about what info that there is out there , the reality is that this is an active and ongoing investigation , they aren’t going to put all that info out there.

    It’s not a game where if you get this answer right you get to move a step forward , you are not privy to even know if anything you based your theory on is even true, during the entire thing you have to second guess everything you see and read. There are just not many facts that are made public, so I'm calling it the most obvious person that matches things that in my opinion need to be matched, the horse guy is the only one that does.

    Sorry for the long posts, I think this will be the last one lol

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    also, missed this on the previous post -- Women don't jog down desolate roads

    also, missed this on the previous post -- Women don't jog down desolate roads

  • J

    J Cleveland OH

    Here's another thing on the way this might of went down. let's say you're the killer and all the calls and everything happened just as is stated by Amy. So this guy is going to meet her at the plaza. Is he just going to show up like its an appointment ? I think not, the police station was right there, I'm thinking in the back of this guys mind he's got to be thinking has Amy told someone, have they set up a sting now, how do I know what I'm walking into here. He probably sat in the plaza for a good while before then moving his vehicle to an out of sight location and then walking to the area Amy was at. He probably parked situated to see the plaza and the police station. Who had that kind of time ? Who could have been sure they weren't be going to met with law enforcement. Was there any chance that there was an abandoned store there in the plaza that someone had access to ? A person with this access wouldn't need to be outside he could be watching from inside then walk around the building when its all set, he also does not have to get her into a car, just the back door of that empty space. Any ideas ?

    Here's another thing on the way this might of went down.

    let's say you're the killer and all the calls and everything happened just as is stated by Amy.

    So this guy is going to meet her at the plaza.

    Is he just going to show up like its an appointment ?

    I think not, the police station was right there, I'm thinking in the back of this guys mind he's got to be thinking has Amy told someone, have they set up a sting now, how do I know what I'm walking into here.

    He probably sat in the plaza for a good while before then moving his vehicle to an out of sight location and then walking to the area Amy was at. He probably parked situated to see the plaza and the police station.

    Who had that kind of time ? Who could have been sure they weren't be going to met with law enforcement.

    Was there any chance that there was an abandoned store there in the plaza that someone had access to ? A person with this access wouldn't need to be outside he could be watching from inside then walk around the building when its all set, he also does not have to get her into a car, just the back door of that empty space.

    Any ideas ?

  • Hey guys, I have a couple of thoughts... The plant that grew up through her clothes could not have done so without sun and water. So, she likely wasn't covered for the whole time she was there. Also, if the killer wanted to conceal her, preventing her from being found, he wouldn't have put her where he did. Lastly, I believe he covered her out of guilt because killing her was not his initial plan. She clearly wasn't wrapped in the blanket/sheet material because that would not easily come loose or blow off due to weather.

    Hey guys, I have a couple of thoughts... The plant that grew up through her clothes could not have done so without sun and water. So, she likely wasn't covered for the whole time she was there. Also, if the killer wanted to conceal her, preventing her from being found, he wouldn't have put her where he did. Lastly, I believe he covered her out of guilt because killing her was not his initial plan. She clearly wasn't wrapped in the blanket/sheet material because that would not easily come loose or blow off due to weather.

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