Jessica Johnson /// 282 /// 283

31 comments

  • Missy

    Missy TN

    I would like to know about the lividity in her body at the time she was found. The photo makes her skin appear pretty normal, not much discoloration... To set lividity takes 6 to 8 hours, right? What was the condition of her hyoid bone? I HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO THIS (because of the creepy factor)- but what does low-height hanging do to the neck & face? I would imagine there should be discoloration, swelling, puffiness if the blood flow was restricted at the neck... It's reported she was in full rigor? That takes about 8 hours (depending on temperatures)- is that correct? Just hmmmmm.

    I would like to know about the lividity in her body at the time she was found. The photo makes her skin appear pretty normal, not much discoloration... To set lividity takes 6 to 8 hours, right?

    What was the condition of her hyoid bone?

    I HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO THIS (because of the creepy factor)- but what does low-height hanging do to the neck & face? I would imagine there should be discoloration, swelling, puffiness if the blood flow was restricted at the neck...

    It's reported she was in full rigor? That takes about 8 hours (depending on temperatures)- is that correct?

    Just hmmmmm.

  • Carrie Medlin

    Carrie Medlin

    One thing that came to my mind is that she was used to send a message to Jesse.. it was a delivery.. to his mailbox...

    One thing that came to my mind is that she was used to send a message to Jesse.. it was a delivery.. to his mailbox...

  • Lynn

    Lynn Nd

    Her skin looks too good- her arm should be mottled. She look like she’s recently placed there.

    Her skin looks too good- her arm should be mottled. She look like she’s recently placed there.

  • Tyna

    Tyna SC

    If you look at the picture you can see where her left hand is and that gives you an idea of how her arm is pushed up against the post. Maybe the indentation could be weeds or grass. But that looks more like a shoe print to me. Either way I doubt it is wood grain going that direction.

    If you look at the picture you can see where her left hand is and that gives you an idea of how her arm is pushed up against the post. Maybe the indentation could be weeds or grass. But that looks more like a shoe print to me. Either way I doubt it is wood grain going that direction.

  • Jessica

    Jessica Mississippi

    *no I’m not kidding about my name and location. My name really is Jessica and I really do live in Mississippi. I live in Jackson, though. Another thing I have in common with Jessica besides name and location is that I am a drug addict as well. God willing, I will have 11 years of sobriety on March 3. I’ll never understand why some of us survive and others don’t. I guess that’s not for me to decide. I LOVE this podcast, and I love you guys Nick & Captain! But, I have to speak up on this topic. I’ve noticed it in several other episodes as well, but I guess now is a good time to share. There are a lot of stereotypes and misunderstandings of addicts & addiction that are perpetuated by the show. We’re not morons, nor are we stupid- in fact, addicts have some of the highest IQs out there. We’re not evil or awful or intrinsically bad or immoral. We’re sick. Addiction will drive good people with good morals and a good heart to do irrational and sometimes unforgivable things. Don’t misunderstand me here- I’m NOT excusing any behavior of addicts. I’ve done plenty of things I regret, as have most of us - addict or not. I don’t want to be controversial or call anyone out or put anyone down. Stereotypes are rampant and stem from ignorance about a person or persons. All I want to do is give a voice to those of us who no longer have one. I’ve lost way too many friends to addiction. My dad died when he was 36 years old because of all the damage he had done to his body. I’ve had a best friend die from a heroin overdose, more than one friend die of suicide, numerous families torn apart, and my cousin will spend most of the rest of his life in prison for something he did while high on crystal meth in an attempt to get more crystal meth. He and my dad would have given you the shirt off their backs until they were ravaged by the disease of addiction. The solution to ignorance is education, so I want to give some recommended reading for anyone interested in learning more about addiction and why we do the things we do. The first is the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” also called “the big book”. This will give stories and experiences of alcoholics/addicts (same thing different name) and their families to help put things in perspective. It’s an easy read. The second is a more difficult read, but it’s incredibly educational and all based in empirical scientific research. It’s called RecoveryMind Training: A Neuroscientific Approach to Treating Addiction by Paul H. Earley, MD DFASAM. I encourage anyone with a lack of understanding of the disease of addiction to read one or both of these books. Addiction is not at all an issue of morals- it’s an ugly and deadly disease- the only disease that will ever tell you that you don’t have the disease. It turns completely irrational things (that are obviously irrational to everyone around them) into the only rational option available. It’s a parasite that invades the host organism and uses it to its own advantage until it’s host is dead. It’s sad and devastating and heartbreaking. But we are in no way intrinsically bad or immoral people. We aren’t stupid or moronic. We are just like YOU- but unfortunate enough to suffer from the most emotionally painful, desperate and hopeless disease there is. I hope that helped someone learn something new. If not, that’s ok too. Thanks for taking the time to read this 🖤

    *no I’m not kidding about my name and location. My name really is Jessica and I really do live in Mississippi. I live in Jackson, though.
    Another thing I have in common with Jessica besides name and location is that I am a drug addict as well. God willing, I will have 11 years of sobriety on March 3. I’ll never understand why some of us survive and others don’t. I guess that’s not for me to decide.
    I LOVE this podcast, and I love you guys Nick & Captain! But, I have to speak up on this topic. I’ve noticed it in several other episodes as well, but I guess now is a good time to share.
    There are a lot of stereotypes and misunderstandings of addicts & addiction that are perpetuated by the show. We’re not morons, nor are we stupid- in fact, addicts have some of the highest IQs out there. We’re not evil or awful or intrinsically bad or immoral. We’re sick. Addiction will drive good people with good morals and a good heart to do irrational and sometimes unforgivable things. Don’t misunderstand me here- I’m NOT excusing any behavior of addicts. I’ve done plenty of things I regret, as have most of us - addict or not.
    I don’t want to be controversial or call anyone out or put anyone down. Stereotypes are rampant and stem from ignorance about a person or persons. All I want to do is give a voice to those of us who no longer have one. I’ve lost way too many friends to addiction. My dad died when he was 36 years old because of all the damage he had done to his body. I’ve had a best friend die from a heroin overdose, more than one friend die of suicide, numerous families torn apart, and my cousin will spend most of the rest of his life in prison for something he did while high on crystal meth in an attempt to get more crystal meth. He and my dad would have given you the shirt off their backs until they were ravaged by the disease of addiction.
    The solution to ignorance is education, so I want to give some recommended reading for anyone interested in learning more about addiction and why we do the things we do. The first is the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” also called “the big book”. This will give stories and experiences of alcoholics/addicts (same thing different name) and their families to help put things in perspective. It’s an easy read. The second is a more difficult read, but it’s incredibly educational and all based in empirical scientific research. It’s called RecoveryMind Training: A Neuroscientific Approach to Treating Addiction by Paul H. Earley, MD DFASAM.
    I encourage anyone with a lack of understanding of the disease of addiction to read one or both of these books. Addiction is not at all an issue of morals- it’s an ugly and deadly disease- the only disease that will ever tell you that you don’t have the disease. It turns completely irrational things (that are obviously irrational to everyone around them) into the only rational option available. It’s a parasite that invades the host organism and uses it to its own advantage until it’s host is dead. It’s sad and devastating and heartbreaking. But we are in no way intrinsically bad or immoral people. We aren’t stupid or moronic. We are just like YOU- but unfortunate enough to suffer from the most emotionally painful, desperate and hopeless disease there is.

    I hope that helped someone learn something new. If not, that’s ok too.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this 🖤

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Thank you Jessica for opening up and sharing. Rarely do I feel the need to apologize however I do here. I'm only one half of the show obviously so I'll just speak from my half. I don't think persons with an addiction are any less smart or bad people and if I came off that way - my apologies. Also a big we like your jib to you - 11 years is fantastic- you should be very proud of yourself, I am. Thanks again and have a great weekend! Nic

    Thank you Jessica for opening up and sharing. Rarely do I feel the need to apologize however I do here. I'm only one half of the show obviously so I'll just speak from my half. I don't think persons with an addiction are any less smart or bad people and if I came off that way - my apologies. Also a big we like your jib to you - 11 years is fantastic- you should be very proud of yourself, I am.
    Thanks again and have a great weekend!
    Nic

  • Amy

    Amy Nj

    No way can someone put her like that in full rigor. So if her boyfriend is saying oh she must have been there right before she was found. Can’t be. You couldn’t do that to a body in rigor

    No way can someone put her like that in full rigor. So if her boyfriend is saying oh she must have been there right before she was found. Can’t be. You couldn’t do that to a body in rigor

  • Megan

    Megan Wisconsin

    Stupid question...but since she would have had to walk barefoot from the house to the mailbox in order to hang herself, wouldn't the soles of her feet give some indication to this? I know that even walking from my door across the driveway my feet pick up bits of dirt and rock...and growing up in the country your feet showed it any time you walked barefoot.

    Stupid question...but since she would have had to walk barefoot from the house to the mailbox in order to hang herself, wouldn't the soles of her feet give some indication to this? I know that even walking from my door across the driveway my feet pick up bits of dirt and rock...and growing up in the country your feet showed it any time you walked barefoot.

  • Blue Meath

    Blue Meath

    Do you have a link to an uncensored photo of the crime scene? I'm trying to follow along while you guys are talking about the photo evidence, but it's difficult when I can't see the whole picture. I've googled myself silly with no luck.

    Do you have a link to an uncensored photo of the crime scene? I'm trying to follow along while you guys are talking about the photo evidence, but it's difficult when I can't see the whole picture. I've googled myself silly with no luck.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    https://co-a1.azureedge.net/co-uploa...7/08/dims.jpeg There's a few different versions of this out there. The only ones I have seen have been censored. I found one where its just the eyes that are blurred out but can't find it online at the moment. We were working off of the eyes only blurred out photo. Neither of us could / nor did we want to find one that was completely uncensored. - Nic

    https://co-a1.azureedge.net/co-uploa...7/08/dims.jpeg
    There's a few different versions of this out there. The only ones I have seen have been censored. I found one where its just the eyes that are blurred out but can't find it online at the moment. We were working off of the eyes only blurred out photo. Neither of us could / nor did we want to find one that was completely uncensored.
    - Nic

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    GOOD question Megan - There may not have been obvious evidence if she walked primarily in the grass but the driveway appears to be mostly if not all gravel. If she walked on the gravel driveway there would have been obvious signs. If there were not any indications that she walked bare foot for some time then again you have to go with this is a suspicious death and there for an investigation is necessary. Cheers Nic

    GOOD question Megan - There may not have been obvious evidence if she walked primarily in the grass but the driveway appears to be mostly if not all gravel. If she walked on the gravel driveway there would have been obvious signs. If there were not any indications that she walked bare foot for some time then again you have to go with this is a suspicious death and there for an investigation is necessary.
    Cheers Nic

  • Tony

    Tony Toronto

    censoring comments?

    censoring comments?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    No Tony we rarely censor comments - we do if they are offensive to others but no. If your comment was not posted it could be from a glitch on our website. Please post your comment. Thanks for checking the blog - Nic

    No Tony we rarely censor comments - we do if they are offensive to others but no. If your comment was not posted it could be from a glitch on our website. Please post your comment.
    Thanks for checking the blog - Nic

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous Texas

    Do you have to approve the comments before they post?

    Do you have to approve the comments before they post?

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Yes but we approve a very high percentage. As you can see even comments that are negative to us and the show get posted. We only do not approve of a comment if it is very offensive or way out of bounds. The website is not perfect and for whatever reason on rare occasions a comment will get lost. Cheers Nic

    Yes but we approve a very high percentage. As you can see even comments that are negative to us and the show get posted. We only do not approve of a comment if it is very offensive or way out of bounds. The website is not perfect and for whatever reason on rare occasions a comment will get lost.
    Cheers Nic

  • Julie

    Julie Chicago

    Here’s what I think....I think something went wrong - don’t know if it was a drug deal or an overdose but whoever she was with, carried her to the mailbox and placed her there. Tied the shoelace around her neck to make it look like a suicide. Keep up the good work guys!

    Here’s what I think....I think something went wrong - don’t know if it was a drug deal or an overdose but whoever she was with, carried her to the mailbox and placed her there. Tied the shoelace around her neck to make it look like a suicide.

    Keep up the good work guys!

  • Elise

    Elise Oklahoma

    I guess my comment got lost, so I'll try again! Has anyone yet looked at any connections she had with officers in the Police Dept? It is a very small, rural town and a lot of people don't get out; she didn't . The Departments in areas like that also usually survive, numbers wise, through nepotism and she probably graduated with a few of the officers that oversaw her case. Drugs also don't discriminate. If an officer had a problem- would you want to go through the sketchy guys SHE dealt with, or- she was also a middle man, get drugs from her instead. She was also a gorgeous girl, she had to of broken some hearts back in high school and not even known about it. One of those guys could now be an officer and not in any drug related relationship, but- perhaps got angry, saw an opportunity, maybe it was even an innocent interaction that went awry, during the 6 hours she was MIA . I understand some people in the town might have felt, "she was on drugs, not paying attention to her children enough, good riddance", whatever. But the extent of which the evidence was destroyed and the autopsy was even a wash- that makes me feel like something was lazily covered up. "Oops - we burned all of her clothes covered in evidence (that probably weren't even her clothes). 'Oops we have no idea where her shoes or the shoelaces - (the supposed murder/suicide weapon) are. 'We're not smart enough to get on her phone and no you can't have it either". Too many things were shrugged off. Maybe an officer or officer's son was involved and the easiest way to get rid of evidence is not to look at it at all. The previous time i tried to comment, it was worded much more eloquently- you get the gist :) Cheers guys, keep up the good work.

    I guess my comment got lost, so I'll try again!

    Has anyone yet looked at any connections she had with officers in the Police Dept? It is a very small, rural town and a lot of people don't get out; she didn't . The Departments in areas like that also usually survive, numbers wise, through nepotism and she probably graduated with a few of the officers that oversaw her case. Drugs also don't discriminate. If an officer had a problem- would you want to go through the sketchy guys SHE dealt with, or- she was also a middle man, get drugs from her instead. She was also a gorgeous girl, she had to of broken some hearts back in high school and not even known about it. One of those guys could now be an officer and not in any drug related relationship, but- perhaps got angry, saw an opportunity, maybe it was even an innocent interaction that went awry, during the 6 hours she was MIA . I understand some people in the town might have felt, "she was on drugs, not paying attention to her children enough, good riddance", whatever. But the extent of which the evidence was destroyed and the autopsy was even a wash- that makes me feel like something was lazily covered up. "Oops - we burned all of her clothes covered in evidence (that probably weren't even her clothes). 'Oops we have no idea where her shoes or the shoelaces - (the supposed murder/suicide weapon) are. 'We're not smart enough to get on her phone and no you can't have it either". Too many things were shrugged off. Maybe an officer or officer's son was involved and the easiest way to get rid of evidence is not to look at it at all.
    The previous time i tried to comment, it was worded much more eloquently- you get the gist smile
    Cheers guys, keep up the good work.

  • Snarky  grumpkin

    Snarky grumpkin

    So I tried posting my theory twice and still nothing gets posted...

    So I tried posting my theory twice and still nothing gets posted...

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Snarky - I’ve not seen your post to approve them. For some reason they have not come through. Please try again. Cheers Nic

    Snarky - I’ve not seen your post to approve them. For some reason they have not come through. Please try again.
    Cheers Nic

  • mG

    mG tX

    Her life was a tragedy. She was addicted to drugs. Suicide occurs frequently when these factors are present. I see nothing to indicate murder. I think the sitting position allowed her to lean forward and put more pressure on the rope. Because she was sitting on her feet, she would not be able to lean back, her backside would be elevated, she will die in that position. Pretty girl dies, tragedy/mystery. Ugly girl dies....

    Her life was a tragedy. She was addicted to drugs. Suicide occurs frequently when these factors are present. I see nothing to indicate murder. I think the sitting position allowed her to lean forward and put more pressure on the rope. Because she was sitting on her feet, she would not be able to lean back, her backside would be elevated, she will die in that position. Pretty girl dies, tragedy/mystery. Ugly girl dies....

  • Kristin

    Kristin Toledo, Ohio

    For whatever reason, this case is the one that bothers me the most. So many unknowns and the crime scene makes zero sense. It is infuriating to think of how many questions could have been answered if the scene had been preserved and investigated properly. I hope Jessica’s children and family find peace and a sense of finality one day. Also, please please please cover the Black Dahlia with all of the information that has come out recently and the amazing podcast that has also been a result of that. That case may be THE most horrific murder (or within the top 10) of all time.

    For whatever reason, this case is the one that bothers me the most. So many unknowns and the crime scene makes zero sense. It is infuriating to think of how many questions could have been answered if the scene had been preserved and investigated properly. I hope Jessica’s children and family find peace and a sense of finality one day.
    Also, please please please cover the Black Dahlia with all of the information that has come out recently and the amazing podcast that has also been a result of that. That case may be THE most horrific murder (or within the top 10) of all time.

  • True Crime Garage

    True Crime Garage

    Hi Kristen thanks! We will have to review the Black Dahlia. We did cover it for 3 episodes in 2016. You can find those on the stitcher app for free. Cheers Nic

    Hi Kristen thanks! We will have to review the Black Dahlia. We did cover it for 3 episodes in 2016. You can find those on the stitcher app for free.
    Cheers Nic

  • TRACII

    TRACII

    Hi Captain and Nick I'm new to Pod cast and am now addicted to listening to your POD cast. My first question is, if Jessica put her self next to that mail box and from the picture you described. showing string going across her face would. Of never let her get enough pressure with the 2nd part of the lace around her neck. She would of had to push or pull her self to hang properly. She would Of also been leaning forward with natural gravity after passing out she would of leaned forward and hung forward and her hand should of been a purplish color. I think garland walked her to the end of the driveway to get her away from the house to talk to her and he suffocated her and then sat her down and tied the shoe strings. It was to dark to see what he was doing and he missed the 2nd loop around her neck, that's why it was around her face not her neck. The marks on her arm I can't see but sound like gravel marks from the driveway or asphalt. Captain you are correct a woman would of moved her hair out of the way of the string. If Jesse security video would if been properly ceased for. Evidence the company could of given a temp password and most home. Security cameras record on DVR for 90 days before being RE recorded. What a crock of shit police department. Her. Parents should Of called Internal Affair and had them investigate the police departments GOOD OL BOY Routine. What a bunch of phucken dumbass police. If someone would. Of looked. On her. Phone her Google map would. Of told them. Is she walked or. Someone. Drive her. Down the driveway!!! Thanks for all the great shows.. I listen every day while I'm driving for work.

    Hi Captain and Nick
    I'm new to Pod cast and am now addicted to listening to your POD cast. My first question is, if Jessica put her self next to that mail box and from the picture you described. showing string going across her face would. Of never let her get enough pressure with the 2nd part of the lace around her neck. She would of had to push or pull her self to hang properly. She would Of also been leaning forward with natural gravity after passing out she would of leaned forward and hung forward and her hand should of been a purplish color. I think garland walked her to the end of the driveway to get her away from the house to talk to her and he suffocated her and then sat her down and tied the shoe strings. It was to dark to see what he was doing and he missed the 2nd loop around her neck, that's why it was around her face not her neck. The marks on her arm I can't see but sound like gravel marks from the driveway or asphalt. Captain you are correct a woman would of moved her hair out of the way of the string. If Jesse security video would if been properly ceased for. Evidence the company could of given a temp password and most home. Security cameras record on DVR for 90 days before being RE recorded. What a crock of shit police department. Her. Parents should Of called Internal Affair and had them investigate the police departments GOOD OL BOY Routine. What a bunch of phucken dumbass police. If someone would. Of looked. On her. Phone her Google map would. Of told them. Is she walked or. Someone. Drive her. Down the driveway!!! Thanks for all the great shows.. I listen every day while I'm driving for work.

  • Natasha

    Natasha Wisconsin

    I honestly don't get the whole hoopla around this case. She was a junkie that dumped her kids onto her parents to raise just so she could party and get all the attention she wanted. Most likely it was a drug deal gone bad, and the person that bought the drugs did that to her and took the money back. Then they probably hanged her as a warning message. I feel like Capt was fawning over her and saying that she was a mother, yadda yadda just because she was beautiful. I see it all the time- people get glorified just because they are good looking. If she was some homely looking girl I doubt you would be talking about her like some sort of mother of the year that fell in with the wrong crowd. PS a very small percentage of drug abuse stems from prescription drugs. Majority of people just want to have a good time and don't think they will get addicted/affected.

    I honestly don't get the whole hoopla around this case. She was a junkie that dumped her kids onto her parents to raise just so she could party and get all the attention she wanted. Most likely it was a drug deal gone bad, and the person that bought the drugs did that to her and took the money back. Then they probably hanged her as a warning message. I feel like Capt was fawning over her and saying that she was a mother, yadda yadda just because she was beautiful. I see it all the time- people get glorified just because they are good looking. If she was some homely looking girl I doubt you would be talking about her like some sort of mother of the year that fell in with the wrong crowd.
    PS a very small percentage of drug abuse stems from prescription drugs. Majority of people just want to have a good time and don't think they will get addicted/affected.

  • Driver

    Driver Colorado

    The mail carriers should have been charged for tampering with the scene. If you want to know where the money went, ask the P.O.S. mailman where he got those brand new shoes!

    The mail carriers should have been charged for tampering with the scene. If you want to know where the money went, ask the P.O.S. mailman where he got those brand new shoes!

  • ALW

    ALW

    Could the area on the arm that looks like ligature/binding be from shooting up? There appears to be a puncture bruise above it. Like other people have mentioned, I think it is a statement. Perhaps she went with someone, they shot her up to the point of being incapacitated and then placed her there to die. Also, could law enforcement be involved?

    Could the area on the arm that looks like ligature/binding be from shooting up? There appears to be a puncture bruise above it. Like other people have mentioned, I think it is a statement. Perhaps she went with someone, they shot her up to the point of being incapacitated and then placed her there to die. Also, could law enforcement be involved?

  • Ty

    Ty Jackson

    This always reminds me of the murder of Sarah Maria Cornell, "The Haystack Hanging," in Fall River, MA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Maria_Cornell

    This always reminds me of the murder of Sarah Maria Cornell, "The Haystack Hanging," in Fall River, MA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Maria_Cornell

  • Lisa

    Lisa TX

    I just don't buy a suicide by shoe lace theory. I personally think that if it was suicide, from that position it would be a messier than it is. She's sitting very peacefully and put together. The shoe lace had to be just to hold her body in an upright position. I just picture the struggle to breathe/not breathe being a lot more violent than her final placement. Such a strange an interesting case. Thank you for sharing.

    I just don't buy a suicide by shoe lace theory. I personally think that if it was suicide, from that position it would be a messier than it is. She's sitting very peacefully and put together. The shoe lace had to be just to hold her body in an upright position. I just picture the struggle to breathe/not breathe being a lot more violent than her final placement. Such a strange an interesting case. Thank you for sharing.

  • Call me “Smith”

    Call me “Smith” Northwest

    I’d like to address a couple things I noticed in the photos available online. One of them about the marks on her hand and arm and the other about the possible times and locations of death. I have a little experience in law enforcement and investigations, not to suggest I’m an expert by any means but I do have some training and experience in my past. It’s hard to tell from the picture and position at the mailbox whether her body is in rigor but after looking at the other picture of her arm and hand if you look closely you can see her finger tips are blue from lividity a stage of death that happens after rigor. That still doesn’t tell us if she was or was not killed before she was placed at the mailbox though because she could have been killed and placed their shortly after death before rigor set in. One thing that I believe could be helpful was if there was any blood pooling right above her knees. The position of her body with her knees bent and weight that would be on her lower legs and knees area make me believe that if she had died in that position at the mailbox there would likely be some lividity or blood pooling right above her knees as part of her circulation would have been cut off to her lower legs because of the position she was in. I don’t suppose we will ever know that unless we have records from the M.E. - Now As far as the dark spots on her hand and arm in the second photo, I’ve looked at these a lot and I don’t believe they are injection sites or track marks, normally track marks on users are open type wounds that’s are usually scabbed or even swollen and infected looking many times. The marks on her hand and arm don’t appear to be open, puffy or scabbed and in fact look more like they are indentions or divots caused by something that pressed into the skin but didn’t puncture it. The initial thing that came to my mind when I zoomed in on those marks were several years of my military days when I had done push ups on black top or concrete that had bits of gravel on the surface. The palms of my hands would have these same type of indented dark or red spots from the weight of my body pushing my palms down onto the specks of gravel or loose blacktop on the surface of the road or on concrete whichever it happened to be. Those spots on her looked a lot like what my palms looked like as a result of that. So after looking at that picture over and over I believe that at some point while she was likely still alive or possibly immediately after death, she was likely laying on some gravel with that side of her arm and hand (the side side with the marks) in contact with the surface as weight and pressure was pressed down on the top side causing those same type of contact pressure points marks that I described as having on the palms of my hands but to a slightly more extreme amount of weight or pressure on her case. I believe it’s possible a car tire ran over her arm without breaking it OR more likely someone was standing on it. This scenario in my mind would indicate to me at least that she was most likely killed in that same incident that caused those marks prior to being placed at the mailbox. Hope this gets your wheels spinning a little bit, I’d be happy to hear your response, hell I’d be happy to even know if you actually read this or not. Love your podcast keep up the good work.

    I’d like to address a couple things I noticed in the photos available online. One of them about the marks on her hand and arm and the other about the possible times and locations of death. I have a little experience in law enforcement and investigations, not to suggest I’m an expert by any means but I do have some training and experience in my past. It’s hard to tell from the picture and position at the mailbox whether her body is in rigor but after looking at the other picture of her arm and hand if you look closely you can see her finger tips are blue from lividity a stage of death that happens after rigor. That still doesn’t tell us if she was or was not killed before she was placed at the mailbox though because she could have been killed and placed their shortly after death before rigor set in. One thing that I believe could be helpful was if there was any blood pooling right above her knees. The position of her body with her knees bent and weight that would be on her lower legs and knees area make me believe that if she had died in that position at the mailbox there would likely be some lividity or blood pooling right above her knees as part of her circulation would have been cut off to her lower legs because of the position she was in. I don’t suppose we will ever know that unless we have records from the M.E. - Now As far as the dark spots on her hand and arm in the second photo, I’ve looked at these a lot and I don’t believe they are injection sites or track marks, normally track marks on users are open type wounds that’s are usually scabbed or even swollen and infected looking many times. The marks on her hand and arm don’t appear to be open, puffy or scabbed and in fact look more like they are indentions or divots caused by something that pressed into the skin but didn’t puncture it. The initial thing that came to my mind when I zoomed in on those marks were several years of my military days when I had done push ups on black top or concrete that had bits of gravel on the surface. The palms of my hands would have these same type of indented dark or red spots from the weight of my body pushing my palms down onto the specks of gravel or loose blacktop on the surface of the road or on concrete whichever it happened to be. Those spots on her looked a lot like what my palms looked like as a result of that. So after looking at that picture over and over I believe that at some point while she was likely still alive or possibly immediately after death, she was likely laying on some gravel with that side of her arm and hand (the side side with the marks) in contact with the surface as weight and pressure was pressed down on the top side causing those same type of contact pressure points marks that I described as having on the palms of my hands but to a slightly more extreme amount of weight or pressure on her case. I believe it’s possible a car tire ran over her arm without breaking it OR more likely someone was standing on it. This scenario in my mind would indicate to me at least that she was most likely killed in that same incident that caused those marks prior to being placed at the mailbox. Hope this gets your wheels spinning a little bit, I’d be happy to hear your response, hell I’d be happy to even know if you actually read this or not. Love your podcast keep up the good work.

  • Toni

    Toni San Antonio

    For some reason this podcast really got me. After listening many things came to mind, mainly this. The shoelaces being used as a suicide weapon doesn't fit, in my opinion. She had access to drugs she could have used to overdose.

    For some reason this podcast really got me. After listening many things came to mind, mainly this. The shoelaces being used as a suicide weapon doesn't fit, in my opinion. She had access to drugs she could have used to overdose.

  • Nicholas

    Nicholas Missouri

    Cheers. I think that the Captain is closest to the mark on this one. I think this lady‘s death is a suicide. I believe that is the most straightforward explanation, given the fact that she was distraught, acting erratically, and taking multiple substances at the time of her death. In cases of asphyxiation by hanging, it is easy to get to the point of no return, even if you are ambivalent or if you are engaging in the behavior as a way of gaining attention or displaying your level of discontent to someone else. The fact that she was in a crouching position is also consistent with her attempt to engage in a low hanging. This would in fact not be an easy position in which to place a body if one is attempting to simulate a suicide. I am also not convinced by the fact that friends and family don’t think she would suicide, or that they don’t think she would commit suicide in this fashion. When one is distraught enough to make an attempt to end one’s life, usual considerations such as one’s appearance or worries how your body will be found may simply go out the window. Families rarely want to think a death is a suicide, even when the evidence is overwhelming. In this unusual suicide, there is even more fuel for denial.

    Cheers. I think that the Captain is closest to the mark on this one. I think this lady‘s death is a suicide. I believe that is the most straightforward explanation, given the fact that she was distraught, acting erratically, and taking multiple substances at the time of her death. In cases of asphyxiation by hanging, it is easy to get to the point of no return, even if you are ambivalent or if you are engaging in the behavior as a way of gaining attention or displaying your level of discontent to someone else. The fact that she was in a crouching position is also consistent with her attempt to engage in a low hanging. This would in fact not be an easy position in which to place a body if one is attempting to simulate a suicide. I am also not convinced by the fact that friends and family don’t think she would suicide, or that they don’t think she would commit suicide in this fashion. When one is distraught enough to make an attempt to end one’s life, usual considerations such as one’s appearance or worries how your body will be found may simply go out the window. Families rarely want to think a death is a suicide, even when the evidence is overwhelming. In this unusual suicide, there is even more fuel for denial.

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