Serial Killer Phone Call ////// 544

38 comments

  • Edwina
    Edwina BC Canada
    I'd love to hear John Douglas' opinion on this call. I think it is real. It sounds legit to me.

    I'd love to hear John Douglas' opinion on this call. I think it is real. It sounds legit to me.

  • Mike
    Mike Philly
    I was wondering if there was a chance he accidentally gave his real name when he spoke to the call screener instinctively, and then when he was put on hold realized what he had done and tried to play it off as a mistake and then called himself Clay. Another thing that may strengthen the chances of this being legit is the year in which he made the call. True crime has always been popular, particularly in books, but it wasn't until the past 10-15 years where it really skyrocketed in popularity among the mainstream with Netflix, documentaries, and podcasts. It seems less likely back in 1997 than today someone would be motivated to make up being a serial killer just as a gag, and would be equipped with the knowledge to do it back then to make it sound legit. Not impossible, but far less likely than it would be today when you're inundated with true crime at every corner of media and social media.

    I was wondering if there was a chance he accidentally gave his real name when he spoke to the call screener instinctively, and then when he was put on hold realized what he had done and tried to play it off as a mistake and then called himself Clay.

    Another thing that may strengthen the chances of this being legit is the year in which he made the call. True crime has always been popular, particularly in books, but it wasn't until the past 10-15 years where it really skyrocketed in popularity among the mainstream with Netflix, documentaries, and podcasts. It seems less likely back in 1997 than today someone would be motivated to make up being a serial killer just as a gag, and would be equipped with the knowledge to do it back then to make it sound legit. Not impossible, but far less likely than it would be today when you're inundated with true crime at every corner of media and social media.

  • Todd
    Todd Iowa
    Guys- when Howard says “you are from the New Orleans area”, Clay says “yea”. Then Howard talks over Clay…..does Clay say “Kenner”? Kenner is a city just West of New Orleans. It’s difficult to make out because of the talk over but it might go this way….”you are from the New Orleans area? Yea…Kenner. Maybe the Capt. can clean the audio up a bit.

    Guys- when Howard says “you are from the New Orleans area”, Clay says “yea”. Then Howard talks over Clay…..does Clay say “Kenner”? Kenner is a city just West of New Orleans. It’s difficult to make out because of the talk over but it might go this way….”you are from the New Orleans area? Yea…Kenner. Maybe the Capt. can clean the audio up a bit.

  • Gail
    Gail Berkeley
    “Kill all the golfers” - I thought you were finally going to try some b.nektar meadery!

    “Kill all the golfers” - I thought you were finally going to try some b.nektar meadery!

  • Moon Minx
    Moon Minx
    Just a couple thoughts: at the beginning of the call when Howard said Ed, I heard phone call guy say "This is Ned". I thought Howard just misheard; he got Ed from somewhere. I went back and replayed it a few times and I can hear both "This is Ned" and "This isn't Ed". Then he didn't say "I'm Clay" or "My name is Clay", he said "You can call me Clay". And secondly, re How hard Howard was listening, if he laser-focused on the guy and fired questions at him, the guy might get spooked. Perhaps his seemingly half-assed listening was a technique Howard used to disarm the guy and keep him talking? Anywho, great show, guys!

    Just a couple thoughts:
    at the beginning of the call when Howard said Ed, I heard phone call guy say "This is Ned". I thought Howard just misheard; he got Ed from somewhere.
    I went back and replayed it a few times and I can hear both "This is Ned" and "This isn't Ed".
    Then he didn't say "I'm Clay" or "My name is Clay", he said "You can call me Clay".
    And secondly, re How hard Howard was listening, if he laser-focused on the guy and fired questions at him, the guy might get spooked. Perhaps his seemingly half-assed listening was a technique Howard used to disarm the guy and keep him talking?
    Anywho, great show, guys!

  • Alza  M
    Alza M
    This was a hoax. But the phone call was entertaining. An entertaining fake phone call.

    This was a hoax. But the phone call was entertaining. An entertaining fake phone call.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ All - I like your take aways here. Kenner, This is Ned, You can call me Clay - this is all good stuff. Keep them coming and Gail I'll be on the look out for some B.Nekter Meadery. And for those of you that are a little to young - I actually am myself but no ill will toward Golfers - Kill all the golfers was a Bill Murray line from Caddy Shack. Cheers, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! Nic

    @ All - I like your take aways here. Kenner, This is Ned, You can call me Clay - this is all good stuff.
    Keep them coming and Gail I'll be on the look out for some B.Nekter Meadery.
    And for those of you that are a little to young - I actually am myself but no ill will toward Golfers - Kill all the golfers was a Bill Murray line from Caddy Shack.
    Cheers, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
    Nic

  • Vacra
    Vacra Maryland
    He mentions that he left a body in Mississippi. That's a big detail I wished you guys touched on. I wonder if there are any unsolved homicides in West Mississippi where blunt force trauma was the cod.

    He mentions that he left a body in Mississippi. That's a big detail I wished you guys touched on. I wonder if there are any unsolved homicides in West Mississippi where blunt force trauma was the cod.

  • RustyShacklford
    RustyShacklford FloridaMansBasement
    Yeah, I don't know about this. Howard is asking very leading questions and "Clay" seems to just play into the details that Howard is offering, peppering in some random things. I think there is a possibility its real, but it feels fake to me. Also, the way Howard Stern refers/talks about the sex workers, is gross. Blech. I hate that guy.

    Yeah, I don't know about this. Howard is asking very leading questions and "Clay" seems to just play into the details that Howard is offering, peppering in some random things. I think there is a possibility its real, but it feels fake to me.

    Also, the way Howard Stern refers/talks about the sex workers, is gross. Blech. I hate that guy.

  • Luke
    Luke Atlanta
    I can't believe I have to explain this, but the sex worker who "had a penis" was likely NOT a "cross dresser" but a trans woman. Please have some respect.

    I can't believe I have to explain this, but the sex worker who "had a penis" was likely NOT a "cross dresser" but a trans woman. Please have some respect.

  • Michelle
    Michelle New Orleans
    I was born and raised in New Orleans (And surrounding area). If "Clay" is from NOLA or even the surrounding area, he would have that distinct accent that we call "YAT"...it's an odd accent that anyone from this area has and if we heard it we would be able to pick up on it quickly. He didn't sound like a Yat to me. From some research I did on this case, Clay (Russell Ellwood) is supposed to be from the Massillon, Ohio area. It is quite possible that he was a transplant to the NOLA area. Even someone from Kenner (city that is in the surrounding area of NO) he would still have that Yat accent. And, he does say there are a lot of "out of the way" places that he can "dump" a body. If that were true, then I would like to think he may have dumped some of those bodies in the New Orleans East area. It is quite marshy and there are some desolate places in that area.

    I was born and raised in New Orleans (And surrounding area). If "Clay" is from NOLA or even the surrounding area, he would have that distinct accent that we call "YAT"...it's an odd accent that anyone from this area has and if we heard it we would be able to pick up on it quickly. He didn't sound like a Yat to me. From some research I did on this case, Clay (Russell Ellwood) is supposed to be from the Massillon, Ohio area. It is quite possible that he was a transplant to the NOLA area.
    Even someone from Kenner (city that is in the surrounding area of NO) he would still have that Yat accent.
    And, he does say there are a lot of "out of the way" places that he can "dump" a body. If that were true, then I would like to think he may have dumped some of those bodies in the New Orleans East area. It is quite marshy and there are some desolate places in that area.

  • RACHEL
    RACHEL O-H-I-O
    Hey Guys. I lean more toward this call being real. I hear things in his voice that are hallmarks of psychopaths. I hear a lot of boredom when discussing his crimes as well as a nonchalant attitude toward his motivation for the crimes. Boredom is a characteristic of many psychopaths which is why they engage in very impulsive and risky behaviors. I also hear an air of superiority in his voice, especially when people get the details wrong about something he said. He also seems irritated to be talking to everyone until he realizes Howard is on the phone. He believes his phone call is worth the big guy’s attention, not the co-hosts. And when he realizes it’s Howard, I don’t hear nervousness in his voice. I hear excitement. He gets short of breath and has an extremely brief moment where you can tell he needs to compose himself again. Excitement and nervousness sound the same, they just look different. Another key piece that I didn’t hear mentioned was that he referred to the male sex worker as “it” before correcting himself to say “he.” He doesn’t relate to his victims as a fellow human because he lacks the emotions that make us human. He is playing a role of humanity, and he missed his cue there for one moment by saying “it”. One thing I thought would help narrow the time frame a bit is that when he mentioned painting with thumbs as something he wanted as an M.O., he said “there was a comic book a couple years back”. If he meant a couple years literally, we just found a benchmark. He seemed to mention this in connection with how he initially wanted his crimes to go, so I would say it roughly coincided with the beginning of his crimes. Which brings up another interesting point, that if he began at 16, I would say he is probably fairly young. I would put him in the 22-25 age range. He actually sounded a lot like Israel Keyes to me. Those were the vibes I was getting. The fact that he said that “she was one of the ones they found,” and “I actually went to Mississippi for that one,” adds credence to the veracity of his story. When asked if he had kids, he said yeah I have a couple, with no pride in his voice, only like you might say you own a couple of pairs of shoes. Because even his kids are possessions. Which is also why he said something about not marrying or staying with “their mothers,” all possessive language because that is how he relates to people around him-as things to be possessed and or used as a means to an end. This is another hallmark of a psychopath. I think the fact that he called was once again a sign of boredom. He was trying to up the ante in whatever game he is playing that he cant figure out. His weapon of choice being a hammer is very interesting. It’s reasonable to assume he had the weapon in his vehicle most of the time. This could suggest that he has no one close enough to him to ride in his car and see an out of place item such as a hammer, or, it wouldn’t be out of place, because he drives some sort of service vehicle that would naturally have a hammer in it. Couple this with his break in crimes being due to his car being broken down, and I think people like cable men, utility workers, handy men, etc. should be explored. We also know he has at least one friend who jokes around with him since he mentioned that friend joking with him after seeing a newspaper article about one of the crimes. Interestingly enough, this also suggests he knows the friend would never listen to that radio show. Anyways, I could go on, but I’m sure I’ve already lost half of the readers by now anyway 😊 This episode was very interesting. Great job guys!

    Hey Guys. I lean more toward this call being real. I hear things in his voice that are hallmarks of psychopaths. I hear a lot of boredom when discussing his crimes as well as a nonchalant attitude toward his motivation for the crimes. Boredom is a characteristic of many psychopaths which is why they engage in very impulsive and risky behaviors. I also hear an air of superiority in his voice, especially when people get the details wrong about something he said. He also seems irritated to be talking to everyone until he realizes Howard is on the phone. He believes his phone call is worth the big guy’s attention, not the co-hosts. And when he realizes it’s Howard, I don’t hear nervousness in his voice. I hear excitement. He gets short of breath and has an extremely brief moment where you can tell he needs to compose himself again. Excitement and nervousness sound the same, they just look different. Another key piece that I didn’t hear mentioned was that he referred to the male sex worker as “it” before correcting himself to say “he.” He doesn’t relate to his victims as a fellow human because he lacks the emotions that make us human. He is playing a role of humanity, and he missed his cue there for one moment by saying “it”. One thing I thought would help narrow the time frame a bit is that when he mentioned painting with thumbs as something he wanted as an M.O., he said “there was a comic book a couple years back”. If he meant a couple years literally, we just found a benchmark. He seemed to mention this in connection with how he initially wanted his crimes to go, so I would say it roughly coincided with the beginning of his crimes. Which brings up another interesting point, that if he began at 16, I would say he is probably fairly young. I would put him in the 22-25 age range. He actually sounded a lot like Israel Keyes to me. Those were the vibes I was getting. The fact that he said that “she was one of the ones they found,” and “I actually went to Mississippi for that one,” adds credence to the veracity of his story. When asked if he had kids, he said yeah I have a couple, with no pride in his voice, only like you might say you own a couple of pairs of shoes. Because even his kids are possessions. Which is also why he said something about not marrying or staying with “their mothers,” all possessive language because that is how he relates to people around him-as things to be possessed and or used as a means to an end. This is another hallmark of a psychopath. I think the fact that he called was once again a sign of boredom. He was trying to up the ante in whatever game he is playing that he cant figure out. His weapon of choice being a hammer is very interesting. It’s reasonable to assume he had the weapon in his vehicle most of the time. This could suggest that he has no one close enough to him to ride in his car and see an out of place item such as a hammer, or, it wouldn’t be out of place, because he drives some sort of service vehicle that would naturally have a hammer in it. Couple this with his break in crimes being due to his car being broken down, and I think people like cable men, utility workers, handy men, etc. should be explored. We also know he has at least one friend who jokes around with him since he mentioned that friend joking with him after seeing a newspaper article about one of the crimes. Interestingly enough, this also suggests he knows the friend would never listen to that radio show. Anyways, I could go on, but I’m sure I’ve already lost half of the readers by now anyway 😊 This episode was very interesting. Great job guys!

  • chris
    chris fl
    For voluntary confessions, start with the assumption the confession is false, then look for reasons to believe it’s true (uncommon knowledge, etc.) For confessions wrought through interrogation, assume the confession is true and seek reasons to believe it is false (extensive research exists on this: presence of coercion, duration, perceived / actual promises of leniency, presence of factors positively correlated with impressionability like mental illness, etc.) In either case, if you can’t move yourself off that initial mark, you more than likely have the right answer. Clay’s “confession” is voluntary. So, starting from the assumption it’s false, I didn’t see much reason to move off that. First and foremost, he didn’t identify a verifiable crime – date, location, victim name, etc. In the research (I forget which one) the very first thing used to discredit a voluntary false confession is the existence of the crime – very often, there is no crime. Absent an ability to connect the few details Clay provided to a real crime, there’s not much else we can do here. I guess one reason to believe Clay is that he seemed readily able to describe the physical aspects of the crimes. But, that fell through as soon as Howard asked a more probing question. Howard asked whether / how Clay would tell the intended victim he was about to kill them. Clay stumbled and ultimately said, far less confidently than the rest of the interview, “I could say, ‘You’re going to die.’” When pressed for details he hadn’t rehearsed, he’d retreat to the conditional, as in “It depended on my mood.” Questions about things and places were easy for Clay – if I’m right, his mental rehearsing had extended to encompass the when, where, who, how, and to some small extent the why. But, he hadn’t explored certain key details, like the interpersonal relations between the killer and victim, and that ultimately dissuades me from believing this is a delusion or even a fantasy he’s considered extensively. I think he was telling a story, and I think he did this because he seeks the attention and probably respect / acceptance of Howard Stern. ____________________ Kassin & Wrightsman (1985) identified three distinct types of false confession: voluntary, coerced-compliant, and coerced-internalized. The latter two are distinguished by whether, after interrogation, the person actually believes they did it. Though Ofshe and Leo later (1997) extended it to five categories, voluntary remains its own category. Leo (2009) summarizes the research on voluntary false confessions: [I]ndividuals volunteer false confessions in the absence of police questioning for a variety of reasons: a desire for notoriety or fame, the need to expiate guilt over imagined or real acts, an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, or a pathological need for acceptance or self-punishment. But voluntary false confessions need not be rooted in psychological maladies. A person may, for example, provide a voluntary false confession out of a desire to aid and protect the real criminal, to provide an alibi for a different crime or norm violation, or to get revenge on another person. He added this, “Detectives tend to be far more skeptical and less accepting of voluntary false confessions than of police-induced false confessions.” Were fame Clay’s motivation, I think he’d name himself or associate himself, his voice with a famous crime to glean that sense of fame or notoriety. He didn’t. Rather, I think pathological need for acceptance most closely fits Clay’s bill. I’ve only heard a few episodes, but it seems a lot of the callers worship Howard. It wouldn’t surprise me if Clay had tried to get on the show before but with a more fantastical story perhaps referencing a popular crime. As I re-listened to the call I noticed he wanted to feed the drama, to keep the call going (e.g., he paid them anyway, he put the money in compromising places, “it had a penis,” I could say “bababooie,” and so on). Also, the part where he realizes he’s talking to Howard is instructive—it’s the point where he’s gotten what he wants, and it’s like he almost can’t believe it worked.

    For voluntary confessions, start with the assumption the confession is false, then look for reasons to believe it’s true (uncommon knowledge, etc.) For confessions wrought through interrogation, assume the confession is true and seek reasons to believe it is false (extensive research exists on this: presence of coercion, duration, perceived / actual promises of leniency, presence of factors positively correlated with impressionability like mental illness, etc.) In either case, if you can’t move yourself off that initial mark, you more than likely have the right answer.

    Clay’s “confession” is voluntary. So, starting from the assumption it’s false, I didn’t see much reason to move off that. First and foremost, he didn’t identify a verifiable crime – date, location, victim name, etc. In the research (I forget which one) the very first thing used to discredit a voluntary false confession is the existence of the crime – very often, there is no crime.

    Absent an ability to connect the few details Clay provided to a real crime, there’s not much else we can do here. I guess one reason to believe Clay is that he seemed readily able to describe the physical aspects of the crimes. But, that fell through as soon as Howard asked a more probing question. Howard asked whether / how Clay would tell the intended victim he was about to kill them. Clay stumbled and ultimately said, far less confidently than the rest of the interview, “I could say, ‘You’re going to die.’” When pressed for details he hadn’t rehearsed, he’d retreat to the conditional, as in “It depended on my mood.”

    Questions about things and places were easy for Clay – if I’m right, his mental rehearsing had extended to encompass the when, where, who, how, and to some small extent the why. But, he hadn’t explored certain key details, like the interpersonal relations between the killer and victim, and that ultimately dissuades me from believing this is a delusion or even a fantasy he’s considered extensively.

    I think he was telling a story, and I think he did this because he seeks the attention and probably respect / acceptance of Howard Stern.

    ____________________

    Kassin & Wrightsman (1985) identified three distinct types of false confession: voluntary, coerced-compliant, and coerced-internalized. The latter two are distinguished by whether, after interrogation, the person actually believes they did it. Though Ofshe and Leo later (1997) extended it to five categories, voluntary remains its own category. Leo (2009) summarizes the research on voluntary false confessions:

    [I]ndividuals volunteer false confessions in the absence of police questioning for a variety of reasons: a desire for notoriety or fame, the need to expiate guilt over imagined or real acts, an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, or a pathological need for acceptance or self-punishment. But voluntary false confessions need not be rooted in psychological maladies. A person may, for example, provide a voluntary false confession out of a desire to aid and protect the real criminal, to provide an alibi for a different crime or norm violation, or to get revenge on another person.

    He added this, “Detectives tend to be far more skeptical and less accepting of voluntary false confessions than of police-induced false confessions.”

    Were fame Clay’s motivation, I think he’d name himself or associate himself, his voice with a famous crime to glean that sense of fame or notoriety. He didn’t. Rather, I think pathological need for acceptance most closely fits Clay’s bill. I’ve only heard a few episodes, but it seems a lot of the callers worship Howard. It wouldn’t surprise me if Clay had tried to get on the show before but with a more fantastical story perhaps referencing a popular crime. As I re-listened to the call I noticed he wanted to feed the drama, to keep the call going (e.g., he paid them anyway, he put the money in compromising places, “it had a penis,” I could say “bababooie,” and so on). Also, the part where he realizes he’s talking to Howard is instructive—it’s the point where he’s gotten what he wants, and it’s like he almost can’t believe it worked.

  • Scott
    Scott CO
    As far as the Captain wondering if this guy isn't really a Howard listener because he doesn't recognize Howard's voice, I saw someone commenting elsewhere online that they interviewed Howard Stern once over the phone, and they said his voice sounds very different over the phone that it does on the radio. They said that over the phone, his voice has more of a ready, Woody Allen type sound. They said something about it having to do with the quality of the microphone used to pick up Howard's voice in the studio, as well as the positioning of the microphone and whatever audio equipment they are using, versus the quality of audio picked up by a phone receiver. I don't know anything about audio though, the Captain could probably explain that a lot better than I could.

    As far as the Captain wondering if this guy isn't really a Howard listener because he doesn't recognize Howard's voice, I saw someone commenting elsewhere online that they interviewed Howard Stern once over the phone, and they said his voice sounds very different over the phone that it does on the radio. They said that over the phone, his voice has more of a ready, Woody Allen type sound.
    They said something about it having to do with the quality of the microphone used to pick up Howard's voice in the studio, as well as the positioning of the microphone and whatever audio equipment they are using, versus the quality of audio picked up by a phone receiver.
    I don't know anything about audio though, the Captain could probably explain that a lot better than I could.

  • Who the F is "Howard"
    Who the F is "Howard" Nowhere
    Without exception, absolutely your worst episode ever. Most people do not know or care who this Stern person is. Second, you do not discuss the call at all. You do not discuss any attempts to find out who this guy might be. You don't talk about any related investigations. Just all of this Howard adulation, even though all I could find out about him on the Internet is he does a lot of obscene and deeply stupid things. Who cares? Your podcast is not advertised as being adulation for niche radio jerks. Thanks so much for wasting my time. If you had addressed the guy by his first name one more time I swear to God I would have thrown up. I gave up after fast forwarding several times to see if you ever actually talked about an investigation of any kind. Never happened. Just Howard Howard Howard Howard Howard...

    Without exception, absolutely your worst episode ever. Most people do not know or care who this Stern person is. Second, you do not discuss the call at all. You do not discuss any attempts to find out who this guy might be. You don't talk about any related investigations. Just all of this Howard adulation, even though all I could find out about him on the Internet is he does a lot of obscene and deeply stupid things. Who cares? Your podcast is not advertised as being adulation for niche radio jerks. Thanks so much for wasting my time. If you had addressed the guy by his first name one more time I swear to God I would have thrown up. I gave up after fast forwarding several times to see if you ever actually talked about an investigation of any kind. Never happened. Just Howard Howard Howard Howard Howard...

  • KB
    KB Canada
    I highly doubt a real serial killer would call like that, it is too big a risk. He is on air, recorded, someone might recognize him, the conversation is really long. And with all the new technologies, couldn't the voice be identified if it was a killer that was caught since?The only thing that make me doubt is when he says he kills because he is bored. It is so mundane it sounds genuine... Anyway, happy holidays, stay safe!

    I highly doubt a real serial killer would call like that, it is too big a risk. He is on air, recorded, someone might recognize him, the conversation is really long. And with all the new technologies, couldn't the voice be identified if it was a killer that was caught since?The only thing that make me doubt is when he says he kills because he is bored. It is so mundane it sounds genuine... Anyway, happy holidays, stay safe!

  • Daniel C
    Daniel C Fargo, ND
    Reminds me of "Richie" from the Apology Line. Richie sounded believable too but was ultimately a fake.

    Reminds me of "Richie" from the Apology Line. Richie sounded believable too but was ultimately a fake.

  • Daniel C
    Daniel C Fargo, ND
    Nic raises a good point about how long a real killer would stay on the line. Not nearly that long. Howard and crew never mentioning the call again makes it look to me like one of their fakes that they decided went too far and could be dangerous to them. This would also explain the inconsistent vibes I got. Didn't seem like either a real killer or like someone who fantasized about being a killer. . .because as the mindhunter guys point out, fantasies go perfectly. It does seem consistent with a shock jock groupie trying to be outrageous.

    Nic raises a good point about how long a real killer would stay on the line. Not nearly that long.

    Howard and crew never mentioning the call again makes it look to me like one of their fakes that they decided went too far and could be dangerous to them. This would also explain the inconsistent vibes I got. Didn't seem like either a real killer or like someone who fantasized about being a killer. . .because as the mindhunter guys point out, fantasies go perfectly. It does seem consistent with a shock jock groupie trying to be outrageous.

  • Eric
    Eric Boston MA
    Look on YouTube. The Howard Stern Show addressed this call the next morning. They said the FBI did show up and were looking into it.

    Look on YouTube. The Howard Stern Show addressed this call the next morning. They said the FBI did show up and were looking into it.

  • john
    john Michigan
    I would also love to hear what the "Mind Hunter" has to say about this one.

    I would also love to hear what the "Mind Hunter" has to say about this one.

  • Kelly
    Kelly Michigan
    The minute he realized it was Howard and his breathing changed, I don’t think he was (just) nervous. He realized he was talking to Howard and getting his own few minutes of fame and that led to him being excited and pleasuring himself. Sorry, but that’s what it sounds like to me.

    The minute he realized it was Howard and his breathing changed, I don’t think he was (just) nervous. He realized he was talking to Howard and getting his own few minutes of fame and that led to him being excited and pleasuring himself. Sorry, but that’s what it sounds like to me.

  • Feeny
    Feeny Western MA
    I’m getting Israel Keyes vibes

    I’m getting Israel Keyes vibes

  • Andrew J
    Andrew J Sydney
    @Rachel, there was a child serial killer in the Spawn comic book series who would cut off his victims’ fingers to make paintings. The relevant issue, Issue 5, was released in October 1992.

    @Rachel, there was a child serial killer in the Spawn comic book series who would cut off his victims’ fingers to make paintings. The relevant issue, Issue 5, was released in October 1992.

  • Maddy
    Maddy Colorado
    I agree with the comment above, about the caller stumbling to answer questions relating to his victims reactions as being a red flag. From confessions I have heard, they really don’t skimp on describing those kinds of details and they have a very vivid memory of the terror and pleading or fight for life. Mostly so they can use them later to relive the experience, especially reliving the power and control they wield over their victim. This guy totally lacked the pride or absolute dominance he had in the final moments of his supposed victims lives, leading me to believe this was more fantasy than reality. Low resolution fantasy and not a horror into dark human psychology.

    I agree with the comment above, about the caller stumbling to answer questions relating to his victims reactions as being a red flag. From confessions I have heard, they really don’t skimp on describing those kinds of details and they have a very vivid memory of the terror and pleading or fight for life. Mostly so they can use them later to relive the experience, especially reliving the power and control they wield over their victim. This guy totally lacked the pride or absolute dominance he had in the final moments of his supposed victims lives, leading me to believe this was more fantasy than reality. Low resolution fantasy and not a horror into dark human psychology.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Andrew - thank you for that. I knew somewhere in the back of my mind I had seen that before. Spawn was a suspicion of mine but couldn't place it. Cheers Nic

    @ Andrew - thank you for that. I knew somewhere in the back of my mind I had seen that before. Spawn was a suspicion of mine but couldn't place it. Cheers Nic

  • Jenny
    Jenny Toronto
    I feel like his manner of speech and voice sounded a lot like Israel Keyes.

    I feel like his manner of speech and voice sounded a lot like Israel Keyes.

  • Jenni
    Jenni Kentucky
    I thought this was a great episode - a nice escape from the norm. I had never heard of this call, but to me it was very interesting. Thanks guys!

    I thought this was a great episode - a nice escape from the norm. I had never heard of this call, but to me it was very interesting. Thanks guys!

  • JPM
    JPM Milwaukee
    I honestly think this was a BIT gone wrong. They probably got a call from law enforcement telling them that it was not funny and to not talk about that kind of stuff again in a joking way.

    I honestly think this was a BIT gone wrong. They probably got a call from law enforcement telling them that it was not funny and to not talk about that kind of stuff again in a joking way.

  • Mckenzie Byerly
    Mckenzie Byerly Liberty Hill
    I feel like he didn’t want to admit that he used drugs or got high when he killed because he didn’t want people to think that the “drugs” did it, he wants everyone to know that he’s the mastermind-no drugs needed.

    I feel like he didn’t want to admit that he used drugs or got high when he killed because he didn’t want people to think that the “drugs” did it, he wants everyone to know that he’s the mastermind-no drugs needed.

  • RACHEL
    RACHEL O-H-I-O
    @Andrew You are amazing. Thank you for that info. :)

    @Andrew You are amazing. Thank you for that info. smile

  • Tommy
    Tommy Michigan
    Some Observation: The Caller contradicts himself: 1st, when asked "... and you wondering why you do it?" He says; "I have a pretty good idea." Then after given a short list of possible motives by both HS & Robin he states; "Naw, actually nothing like that..." ["What is it then? then" RQ] "I think I just do it for a sense of power." LATER After Howard asks (2nd time) "You must be very powerful." He responds; "Ah, I wouldn't call myself 'powerful' maybe intimidating." The 1st time HS says "You must be a powerful guy" he replies; "I wasn't then." (at 16 yrs old). He contradicts that first statement of the 'why' later saying; "I'm just bored" & "Um... I don't even understand why I do it, Howard. I don't know if I get any satisfaction." I don't see him naming his victim count quickly as any indication of being legit or true. In fact, he uses a verbal delay crutch "Uhhh" "Ummm" often... I lean toward this being semi scripted, at least on his part and the victim count would be a obvious bullet point. I detected what I believe to be voice drops a few times... i.e. it sounds like Howard and maybe Robin were edited in after the fact.This is a technique used by other radio hosts for interviews...Michael Savage comes to mind. He has no discernible Louisiana or Southern accent. There was one point when he used the word; "time" I thought I could hear a trace of Northern Midwest/Canadian, very slight. I don't have time to pinpoint it as to the timestamp right now but I heard it. Perhaps military transplant? I thought the bit about saying "Baba Booey" along with Howard's; "Be serious" rang as odd, scripted and forced... even if this guy is a killer. He mentions not killing himself because he'd miss the next "Batman movie"... "Batman and ROBIN" was released apprx. 5 months before this 'call'. The next Batman movie... not counting animated TV and video was in 2005. My impression is that this is fake and HS & Co. are the producers of it.

    Some Observation:

    The Caller contradicts himself:

    1st, when asked "... and you wondering why you do it?" He says; "I have a pretty good idea." Then after given a short list of possible motives by both HS & Robin he states; "Naw, actually nothing like that..." ["What is it then? then" RQ] "I think I just do it for a sense of power."
    LATER After Howard asks (2nd time) "You must be very powerful." He responds; "Ah, I wouldn't call myself 'powerful' maybe intimidating." The 1st time HS says "You must be a powerful guy" he replies; "I wasn't then." (at 16 yrs old).

    He contradicts that first statement of the 'why' later saying; "I'm just bored" & "Um... I don't even understand why I do it, Howard. I don't know if I get any satisfaction."

    I don't see him naming his victim count quickly as any indication of being legit or true. In fact, he uses a verbal delay crutch "Uhhh" "Ummm" often... I lean toward this being semi scripted, at least on his part and the victim count would be a obvious bullet point.

    I detected what I believe to be voice drops a few times... i.e. it sounds like Howard and maybe Robin were edited in after the fact.This is a technique used by other radio hosts for interviews...Michael Savage comes to mind.

    He has no discernible Louisiana or Southern accent.

    There was one point when he used the word; "time" I thought I could hear a trace of Northern Midwest/Canadian, very slight. I don't have time to pinpoint it as to the timestamp right now but I heard it.

    Perhaps military transplant?

    I thought the bit about saying "Baba Booey" along with Howard's; "Be serious" rang as odd, scripted and forced... even if this guy is a killer.

    He mentions not killing himself because he'd miss the next "Batman movie"...

    "Batman and ROBIN" was released apprx. 5 months before this 'call'.

    The next Batman movie... not counting animated TV and video was in 2005.

    My impression is that this is fake and HS & Co. are the producers of it.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Tommy Michigan - thank you for posting this. Very insightful and well put together. Cheers mate! Nic

    @ Tommy Michigan - thank you for posting this. Very insightful and well put together.
    Cheers mate!
    Nic

  • sheffield
    sheffield essex uk
    I have been listening to you guys for years now and you guys have me even more interested in true crime. I was wondering if you could do a more in-depth episode on missing teenager madison scott there is limited information out there that i can find but with u guys being pros at this you maybe able to find out more than i can myself (not really to sure on my skills with info gathering ) I find her case really fascinating and intriguing it really is a bit of a mystery how she seem to completely disappeared the way she did. I just feel like her case hasn't had the same media push or attention like other missing people have had.

    I have been listening to you guys for years now and you guys have me even more interested in true crime. I was wondering if you could do a more in-depth episode on missing teenager madison scott there is limited information out there that i can find but with u guys being pros at this you maybe able to find out more than i can myself (not really to sure on my skills with info gathering ) I find her case really fascinating and intriguing it really is a bit of a mystery how she seem to completely disappeared the way she did. I just feel like her case hasn't had the same media push or attention like other missing people have had.

  • IthinkIknow
    IthinkIknow Parts Unknown
    Think about the mindset of a serial killer. A person who is successful in life is not likely to become a serial killer. I realize there are exceptions to the rule, but this seems to be a good rule of thumb. Thus, the highest level of achievement for a serial killer is his killings--especially when he remains unidentified over several killings. What do people like to brag about--their accomplishments. Well, a serial killer can't brag to his friends. The urge to boast has to be relieved somewhere. Howard Stern's show is the perfect outlet. No one will believe it is genuine because of the content of the show.  I don't think Howard faked the call.  Having seen all the reaction the call provoked, it seems that Howard would've cleared it up by now if it were some scripted event. Furthermore, his ignoring of the call after the next show (the one mentioning the FBI) is further proof that it was genuine, or at least not a bit for the radio program. There are several interesting pieces of content in the call. First, Clay seems disinterested when discussing the victims; he seens to enjoy talking about his actions, though. Second, one would be foolish to give entirely accurate details. Thus, 12 murders instead of 24 (half of the actual total). Hammer instead of strangulation. As an aside: really? A hammer? It seems implausible to think that a hammer would be convenient for murders in a vehicle. You certainly can't swing it very hard without hitting the roof of the car or smashing glass. This just seems contrived. I have dealt with a dozen or so minor serial killers through my work. But, criminals are all basically the same. They say crazy things for crazy reasons. The call sounds plausible to me.

    Think about the mindset of a serial killer. A person who is successful in life is not likely to become a serial killer. I realize there are exceptions to the rule, but this seems to be a good rule of thumb. Thus, the highest level of achievement for a serial killer is his killings--especially when he remains unidentified over several killings. What do people like to brag about--their accomplishments. Well, a serial killer can't brag to his friends. The urge to boast has to be relieved somewhere. Howard Stern's show is the perfect outlet. No one will believe it is genuine because of the content of the show.  I don't think Howard faked the call.  Having seen all the reaction the call provoked, it seems that Howard would've cleared it up by now if it were some scripted event. Furthermore, his ignoring of the call after the next show (the one mentioning the FBI) is further proof that it was genuine, or at least not a bit for the radio program.

    There are several interesting pieces of content in the call. First, Clay seems disinterested when discussing the victims; he seens to enjoy talking about his actions, though. Second, one would be foolish to give entirely accurate details. Thus, 12 murders instead of 24 (half of the actual total). Hammer instead of strangulation. As an aside: really? A hammer? It seems implausible to think that a hammer would be convenient for murders in a vehicle. You certainly can't swing it very hard without hitting the roof of the car or smashing glass. This just seems contrived.

    I have dealt with a dozen or so minor serial killers through my work. But, criminals are all basically the same. They say crazy things for crazy reasons. The call sounds plausible to me.

  • WhosOnFirst
    WhosOnFirst ATL
    Guys, I think it was mentioned that Howard noticed the area code of the call and that was how he knew he was from New Orleans. If that is true, wouldn’t he have the whole number in caller ID, not just the area code. Who is the number registered to????

    Guys, I think it was mentioned that Howard noticed the area code of the call and that was how he knew he was from New Orleans. If that is true, wouldn’t he have the whole number in caller ID, not just the area code. Who is the number registered to????

  • Nancy
    Nancy Louisiana
    Just catching up on recent episodes… “Swaggart Town” is in Baton Rouge, not New Orleans.

    Just catching up on recent episodes… “Swaggart Town” is in Baton Rouge, not New Orleans.

  • Stephanie
    Stephanie Hope mills NC
    I haven’t finished this episode yet.. but wondering if what he said about an African American cop being accused of his crimes could help determine if he is truthful or not with this confession. That really stuck out to me, other than that I would think he was just seeking attention.

    I haven’t finished this episode yet.. but wondering if what he said about an African American cop being accused of his crimes could help determine if he is truthful or not with this confession. That really stuck out to me, other than that I would think he was just seeking attention.

  • Nikky
    Nikky Earth
    The guy confessed, he said a friend called him out, you really think that the friends wouldn't recognize his voice and be certain?!

    The guy confessed, he said a friend called him out, you really think that the friends wouldn't recognize his voice and be certain?!

Add comment