Darlie Routier /// 489 /// 490

128 comments

  • Scott
    Scott CO
    I wanted to ask you guys, when donating to the beer fund is there a way to leave a note? I want to include my friend's name along with mine in the donation, but I didn't proceed past the screen where you enter payment information, because I didn't see a spot to add someone else's name.

    I wanted to ask you guys, when donating to the beer fund is there a way to leave a note? I want to include my friend's name along with mine in the donation, but I didn't proceed past the screen where you enter payment information, because I didn't see a spot to add someone else's name.

  • Ryan
    Ryan Racine WI
    She stated he came down at first wearing blue jeans. In his statement. He went back up stairs to put pants back on.

    She stated he came down at first wearing blue jeans. In his statement. He went back up stairs to put pants back on.

  • SuziBeth
    SuziBeth
    This case has always frustrated me. I've never been able to be convinced completely one way or the other. Even with most cases where what happened is unknown, I tend to have somewhat of an opinion. But this case? I'm just at a loss. So much makes no sense! And on top of that, I agree with the captain: too many names that start with 'D'!

    This case has always frustrated me. I've never been able to be convinced completely one way or the other. Even with most cases where what happened is unknown, I tend to have somewhat of an opinion. But this case? I'm just at a loss. So much makes no sense!
    And on top of that, I agree with the captain: too many names that start with 'D'!

  • Gia
    Gia Washington
    She is INNOCENT. I am sure of it. They did this poor woman so wrong, I can’t even imagine. This is injustice.

    She is INNOCENT. I am sure of it. They did this poor woman so wrong, I can’t even imagine. This is injustice.

  • Cee Bee
    Cee Bee Sydney
    When Capt queried the motive for killing the two older children and not the bub it reminded me of my friend who had several children "Just because I like babies". Of course, if u r psychopath who wants to reduce food & clothing bills and sports commitments it's also an explicable choice. Also, I can't help but wonder if Nic is an INFJ and Capt an ESTP? D'ya know?

    When Capt queried the motive for killing the two older children and not the bub it reminded me of my friend who had several children "Just because I like babies". Of course, if u r psychopath who wants to reduce food & clothing bills and sports commitments it's also an explicable choice.

    Also, I can't help but wonder if Nic is an INFJ and Capt an ESTP? D'ya know?

  • Paula
    Paula Downingtown, PA
    I’d like to know about the crime in the area at the time. Were there some unsolved rapes or burglaries? What kind of area did they live in? A neighborhood? A remote area?

    I’d like to know about the crime in the area at the time. Were there some unsolved rapes or burglaries? What kind of area did they live in? A neighborhood? A remote area?

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Scott I believe if you go the PayPal route that there is a place for that. I've seen it both ways from Bandzoogle (website). Send an email to my show mail and I'll get your note included. Cheers and thanks for the support! Nic

    @ Scott I believe if you go the PayPal route that there is a place for that. I've seen it both ways from Bandzoogle (website). Send an email to my show mail and I'll get your note included.
    Cheers and thanks for the support!
    Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Carrie Bee - I don't know anything about that stuff but I'm a weirdo, I know that! Cheers Nic

    @ Carrie Bee - I don't know anything about that stuff but I'm a weirdo, I know that!
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Paula - great question. The Routier's were living a very comfortable life in what I would describe as an upper middle class neighborhood. I would guess that crime in the history of the neighborhood would have been very low and limited to some pretty petty stuff - teenager crimes as I call them, your typical neighborhood stuff. There does seem to have been some concern that something else may have been going on around the time of the murders and we address this at the end of part two. Cheers Nic

    @ Paula - great question. The Routier's were living a very comfortable life in what I would describe as an upper middle class neighborhood. I would guess that crime in the history of the neighborhood would have been very low and limited to some pretty petty stuff - teenager crimes as I call them, your typical neighborhood stuff. There does seem to have been some concern that something else may have been going on around the time of the murders and we address this at the end of part two.
    Cheers Nic

  • Sarah
    Sarah Mississippi
    I just want to point out, because Nick kept talking about the intruder not seeming to be a burglar, that the technical legal definition of burglary is illegally entering a dwelling/building at night with the intent to commit a felony therein. I realize Nick was probably using it in the colloquial, non-legal sense where most people think of theft, but it is not legally limited to theft.

    I just want to point out, because Nick kept talking about the intruder not seeming to be a burglar, that the technical legal definition of burglary is illegally entering a dwelling/building at night with the intent to commit a felony therein. I realize Nick was probably using it in the colloquial, non-legal sense where most people think of theft, but it is not legally limited to theft.

  • Amy
    Amy Texas
    Coming from a mom of 3 kids. When I know I am “in charge” of taking care of the baby/kids at night I sleep a lot lighter and every noise wakes me up as opposed to when I know my husband or their grandparents will get up with them. This may be a reason as to why she didn’t wake up because she knew the baby was with the husband and he would take care of him if he were to wake up so she could sleep a little deeper. I really have no clue on this case as to wether she is innocent or not. I am from Texas so I have heard about it for years and I change my mind every time It gets brought up. Just wanted to give my 2 cents from a mom perspective on her being a light sleeper but then not waking up on that night!

    Coming from a mom of 3 kids. When I know I am “in charge” of taking care of the baby/kids at night I sleep a lot lighter and every noise wakes me up as opposed to when I know my husband or their grandparents will get up with them. This may be a reason as to why she didn’t wake up because she knew the baby was with the husband and he would take care of him if he were to wake up so she could sleep a little deeper. I really have no clue on this case as to wether she is innocent or not. I am from Texas so I have heard about it for years and I change my mind every time
    It gets brought up. Just wanted to give my 2 cents from a mom perspective on her being a light sleeper but then not waking up on that night!

  • Roni
    Roni Houston
    I have a real problem with the fact that they sentenced this woman to death mostly based on that silly string video, they had no real evidence, really glad you guys covered this case it’s been in the back of my mind since she was on unsolved mysteries

    I have a real problem with the fact that they sentenced this woman to death mostly based on that silly string video, they had no real evidence, really glad you guys covered this case it’s been in the back of my mind since she was on unsolved mysteries

  • Aine Walsh
    Aine Walsh
    I have always been conflicted on this case. I lean more towards her having some type of psychotic episode and not recalling the incident when she snapped out of it.

    I have always been conflicted on this case. I lean more towards her having some type of psychotic episode and not recalling the incident when she snapped out of it.

  • Seth
    Seth Michigan
    From what I remember of the Forensic Files episode on this case, there were no unknown footprints found at the scene - correct me if I'm wrong, but if not that seems like a hard bit of evidence to ignore.

    From what I remember of the Forensic Files episode on this case, there were no unknown footprints found at the scene - correct me if I'm wrong, but if not that seems like a hard bit of evidence to ignore.

  • Dean
    Dean GA
    After listening to these 2 episodes my first thought is why didn't they suspect the husband. I think he's the guilty one...

    After listening to these 2 episodes my first thought is why didn't they suspect the husband. I think he's the guilty one...

  • Lindsey
    Lindsey Arkansas
    Hey guys, I still tend to believe that Darlie is guilty. I just can't get past the facts that a) the boys were stabbed to death (or to near death) and b) while Darie's injuries could have been life threatening, they weren't. Also, when she made the 911 call, she mentions herself being hurt first - the boys' injuries were secondary. As a mother myself, if God forbid either of my boys were injured and I was too, I'd be seeking help for them first. I appreciate yall's shows and all the hard work you do. Keep it up!

    Hey guys,
    I still tend to believe that Darlie is guilty. I just can't get past the facts that a) the boys were stabbed to death (or to near death) and b) while Darie's injuries could have been life threatening, they weren't. Also, when she made the 911 call, she mentions herself being hurt first - the boys' injuries were secondary. As a mother myself, if God forbid either of my boys were injured and I was too, I'd be seeking help for them first. I appreciate yall's shows and all the hard work you do. Keep it up!

  • Chris
    Chris Scotland
    Come on, she's clearly guilty. No evidence of anyone else there, the knife in the butcher block with debris on it, the kitchen knife with blood. Why didn't the attacker just plunge the knife into her like the kids? The ridiculous behaviour at the grave. The conflicting statements. Absolutely guilty.

    Come on, she's clearly guilty. No evidence of anyone else there, the knife in the butcher block with debris on it, the kitchen knife with blood. Why didn't the attacker just plunge the knife into her like the kids? The ridiculous behaviour at the grave. The conflicting statements. Absolutely guilty.

  • Amanda Leigh
    Amanda Leigh Illinois
    I am leaning innocent. I think the cops and prosecutors did not give her a fair shake and tainted the public’s perception so she did not get a fair trial. This is a case I had for a long time thought she was guilty but when I began looking into it was like maybe she didn’t do it. About to listen to episode two on her!.Keep up the good work guys!

    I am leaning innocent. I think the cops and prosecutors did not give her a fair shake and tainted the public’s perception so she did not get a fair trial. This is a case I had for a long time thought she was guilty but when I began looking into it was like maybe she didn’t do it. About to listen to episode two on her!.Keep up the good work guys!

  • Kt
    Kt MT
    Darlie is GUILTY!!! I’ve read and seen everything on this case since it happened. The book Precious Angels is an excellent read.

    Darlie is GUILTY!!!
    I’ve read and seen everything on this case since it happened.
    The book Precious Angels is an excellent read.

  • Kayla
    Kayla PA
    At the beginning i was fairly convinced she was guilty based on the 911 call, her varying story of events and the lack of blood evidence showing that the knive was dropped in the garage by an intruder. But once you mentioned about the sock being found a few houses away followed by the witness reporting a similar attempted break in i am now leaning toward her innocence. There is no clear reasoning for her to just decide to kill 2 of her 3 kids. I have experienced postpartum after both of my children's births and in my experience i was only frustrated to the point of posing a threat to anyone when they would cry inconsolably fir extended periods of time and I would need to walk away and isolate myself from them until I calmed down. My frustration would always stem from a screaming infant not from my older sleeping child or nephew. Im not saying its not possible that postpartum would cause someone to kill their child/children but I would expect it to be a trigger reaction in a moment of frustration and not a premeditated action.

    At the beginning i was fairly convinced she was guilty based on the 911 call, her varying story of events and the lack of blood evidence showing that the knive was dropped in the garage by an intruder. But once you mentioned about the sock being found a few houses away followed by the witness reporting a similar attempted break in i am now leaning toward her innocence. There is no clear reasoning for her to just decide to kill 2 of her 3 kids. I have experienced postpartum after both of my children's births and in my experience i was only frustrated to the point of posing a threat to anyone when they would cry inconsolably fir extended periods of time and I would need to walk away and isolate myself from them until I calmed down. My frustration would always stem from a screaming infant not from my older sleeping child or nephew. Im not saying its not possible that postpartum would cause someone to kill their child/children but I would expect it to be a trigger reaction in a moment of frustration and not a premeditated action.

  • As an attorney, this case made me furious. I don't practice in criminal law, and I am Australian, but boy, does it throw up a whole bunch of issues. Nic and the Captain did a great job covering the case (as usual). In my opinion, the conviction is unsafe. I believe that defence counsel assistance was not only inadequate, but borderline negligent. On the issue of the graveside video, I would like to know two things: 1. I hope the the defence made a motion that it should not be admissible on the basis that it is more prejudicial than probative, and 2. Whether there is any positive obligation on the prosecutors to play the tape in context, because the earlier portion seems to be exculpatory. As Preet Brahrara says in his book "Doing Justice", the prosecution should be seeking justice, not manipulating evidence in a purely prejudicial way. In any event, it is simply astounding that defence counsel did not require the tape to be played in it's entirety. Likewise, the failure to lead evidence of the true extent of Darlie's wounds was also highly troubling. One would not expect self inflicted wounds to come so close to being fatal, and not be in a manner that also supports a pattern of defensive wounds. In similar cases we often hear of hesitancy, lighter cut marks when knife wounds are self inflicted. Was there any evidence of such marks? Finally, my views (for what it's worth) on the death penalty has changed over time. Before, I ardently opposed the death penalty, but now believe it is appropriate but only in the most clear cut (excuse the pun) cases where not only the facts are beyond a reasonable doubt, but where the jury is completely certain, completely sure of guilt, and the crime is particularly abhorrent. This is in no way such a case, due to the level of doubt. As usual, thanks guys for another brilliant analysis. As is so often the case, True Crime Garage really adds value when examining cases through the guy's extensive knowledge of true crime and what else is happening at the time, such as the fact active serial killer(s) with disturbingly similar M.O's were active at that time and in the area. Further, as Nic highlights (with the Captain's agreement), that the sock simply cannot be worked into the timeline and strongly points to Darlie's innocence.

    As an attorney, this case made me furious. I don't practice in criminal law, and I am Australian, but boy, does it throw up a whole bunch of issues. Nic and the Captain did a great job covering the case (as usual).
    In my opinion, the conviction is unsafe. I believe that defence counsel assistance was not only inadequate, but borderline negligent.
    On the issue of the graveside video, I would like to know two things:
    1. I hope the the defence made a motion that it should not be admissible on the basis that it is more prejudicial than probative, and
    2. Whether there is any positive obligation on the prosecutors to play the tape in context, because the earlier portion seems to be exculpatory. As Preet Brahrara says in his book "Doing Justice", the prosecution should be seeking justice, not manipulating evidence in a purely prejudicial way.
    In any event, it is simply astounding that defence counsel did not require the tape to be played in it's entirety. Likewise, the failure to lead evidence of the true extent of Darlie's wounds was also highly troubling. One would not expect self inflicted wounds to come so close to being fatal, and not be in a manner that also supports a pattern of defensive wounds. In similar cases we often hear of hesitancy, lighter cut marks when knife wounds are self inflicted. Was there any evidence of such marks?
    Finally, my views (for what it's worth) on the death penalty has changed over time. Before, I ardently opposed the death penalty, but now believe it is appropriate but only in the most clear cut (excuse the pun) cases where not only the facts are beyond a reasonable doubt, but where the jury is completely certain, completely sure of guilt, and the crime is particularly abhorrent. This is in no way such a case, due to the level of doubt.
    As usual, thanks guys for another brilliant analysis.
    As is so often the case, True Crime Garage really adds value when examining cases through the guy's extensive knowledge of true crime and what else is happening at the time, such as the fact active serial killer(s) with disturbingly similar M.O's were active at that time and in the area.
    Further, as Nic highlights (with the Captain's agreement), that the sock simply cannot be worked into the timeline and strongly points to Darlie's innocence.

  • Tom
    Tom Philly
    It was interesting listening to this directly after going back and listening to you guys cover the Michael Peterson case. It was also interesting that in this case you both arrived at Darlie being innocent while in the Michael Peterson case you both landed on him being guilty. I agree that there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think some of the speculation (not meant as a slight) you guys put forth was weak. Nick kept mentioning a "sophisticated offender" and what that person would likely do, but it seems to me in most cases the offenders aren't that sophisticated. Likewise, the biggest piece of evidence in Darlie's favor (the bloody sock) makes no sense to me if we're assuming a sophisticated offender. Why would someone wear gloves and then put a sock over top of their gloves? It just doesn't make sense. Also, the mention of two men trying to break into another person's house in the neighborhood doesn't work for me either. Seems like they were checking for unlocked doors and were leaving if the door was locked. If the Routier's door was locked (which it was when police arrived) it stands to reason these guys would've walked away from the Routier house as well. I'd be interested to see this "cut" in the screen because I would think a person sneaking in a window through a T shaped cut would be far more careful than someone running from the house and essentially jumping back through the cut screen. I feel like someone leaving in a frantic state might cause the entire screen to end up torn or possibly even knock it out of the window. I don't know if she's innocent or guilty, but a lack of physical evidence in the house from anyone except Darlie & her family has me leaning towards her being guilty. I think murder is a senseless act and trying to make sense of it could drive us mad. Great coverage as always even if I might disagree with yinz in this case.

    It was interesting listening to this directly after going back and listening to you guys cover the Michael Peterson case. It was also interesting that in this case you both arrived at Darlie being innocent while in the Michael Peterson case you both landed on him being guilty.

    I agree that there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think some of the speculation (not meant as a slight) you guys put forth was weak. Nick kept mentioning a "sophisticated offender" and what that person would likely do, but it seems to me in most cases the offenders aren't that sophisticated. Likewise, the biggest piece of evidence in Darlie's favor (the bloody sock) makes no sense to me if we're assuming a sophisticated offender. Why would someone wear gloves and then put a sock over top of their gloves? It just doesn't make sense. Also, the mention of two men trying to break into another person's house in the neighborhood doesn't work for me either. Seems like they were checking for unlocked doors and were leaving if the door was locked. If the Routier's door was locked (which it was when police arrived) it stands to reason these guys would've walked away from the Routier house as well. I'd be interested to see this "cut" in the screen because I would think a person sneaking in a window through a T shaped cut would be far more careful than someone running from the house and essentially jumping back through the cut screen. I feel like someone leaving in a frantic state might cause the entire screen to end up torn or possibly even knock it out of the window.

    I don't know if she's innocent or guilty, but a lack of physical evidence in the house from anyone except Darlie & her family has me leaning towards her being guilty. I think murder is a senseless act and trying to make sense of it could drive us mad.

    Great coverage as always even if I might disagree with yinz in this case.

  • Tracey
    Tracey Clemson SC
    First thanks guys for great information and research you do on all your cases. After hearing part 2 I am certain this woman was innocent. A total miscarriage of justice. I hope she haunts the dreams of the prosecutors.

    First thanks guys for great information and research you do on all your cases. After hearing part 2 I am certain this woman was innocent. A total miscarriage of justice. I hope she haunts the dreams of the prosecutors.

  • tabs
    tabs Georgia
    ep. 1 comment. several things bother me: her report, it was two concise and started from morning to night she had mpre dyails of before than crime. like she went out of her way to describe the perfect life. second, her inconsistencies from him to they to them. i was torn, but more than convinced. yes, she was drugged and "shocked" but... third, her husband never said she was covered in blood or stabbed. fourth, if she was a light sleeper, the broken glass, you cannot muffle glass breaking unless carpet in the kitchen. tbh, i am convinced shes a case of post partum to the xtreme: the 3 boys under ten, home all day and shes young ... bad mix. remind me of tx case the mom killed all her kids by drowning. btw, mental illness can be senseless to those who havent xperienced it from a family member. and wat her family said? seem like her husband is the only one in her corner?

    ep. 1 comment. several things bother me: her report, it was two concise and started from morning to night she had mpre dyails of before than crime. like she went out of her way to describe the perfect life. second, her inconsistencies from him to they to them. i was torn, but more than convinced. yes, she was drugged and "shocked" but... third, her husband never said she was covered in blood or stabbed. fourth, if she was a light sleeper, the broken glass, you cannot muffle glass breaking unless carpet in the kitchen. tbh, i am convinced shes a case of post partum to the xtreme: the 3 boys under ten, home all day and shes young ... bad mix. remind me of tx case the mom killed all her kids by drowning. btw, mental illness can be senseless to those who havent xperienced it from a family member. and wat her family said? seem like her husband is the only one in her corner?

  • Amy
    Amy Kcmo
    There is SO MUCH reasonable doubt!! There is no way I could convict her. And wheres the motive?? Are they saying her having PPD is the cause? If so that's bullshit. Btw my brother died suddenly back in Jan (he was 22) and his bday was in March. my mom my sister & I went to his grave to celebrate and put happy birthday balloons on his grave. I think it helped us a little

    There is SO MUCH reasonable doubt!! There is no way I could convict her. And wheres the motive?? Are they saying her having PPD is the cause? If so that's bullshit.

    Btw my brother died suddenly back in Jan (he was 22) and his bday was in March. my mom my sister & I went to his grave to celebrate and put happy birthday balloons on his grave. I think it helped us a little

  • edwina caparelli
    edwina caparelli Nanaimo BC Canada
    So if I were an intruder, I would have attacked the biggest threat first, ie the parents. If not, I would have taken the children out of the house, that if it was my motive to harm them in the first place. Just my thought. I want to believe her so badly, but it doesn't make sense to me.

    So if I were an intruder, I would have attacked the biggest threat first, ie the parents. If not, I would have taken the children out of the house, that if it was my motive to harm them in the first place. Just my thought. I want to believe her so badly, but it doesn't make sense to me.

  • Amelia
    Amelia CA
    Such a heartbreaking case, always. I always felt so bad about the birthday party and silly string thing. I have a dear friend who's child died tragically, and every year she asked people to come out for a birthday party. We would have cupcakes, balloons, and leave small toys at the graveside and sometimes have an actual birthday party at their home. While I always thought it was a little weird, I recognize that everyone grieves differently. It's strange because I kind of think she did it, it's kind of the simplest answer. However, unbelievable, creepy, horrible, or unlikely things happen all the time and I certainly don't think she was given a fair shot, overall.

    Such a heartbreaking case, always.

    I always felt so bad about the birthday party and silly string thing. I have a dear friend who's child died tragically, and every year she asked people to come out for a birthday party. We would have cupcakes, balloons, and leave small toys at the graveside and sometimes have an actual birthday party at their home. While I always thought it was a little weird, I recognize that everyone grieves differently.

    It's strange because I kind of think she did it, it's kind of the simplest answer. However, unbelievable, creepy, horrible, or unlikely things happen all the time and I certainly don't think she was given a fair shot, overall.

  • Bowser
    Bowser OH - Ohio
    You recommended a podcast that included one story of a four-year-old boy that recognized a picture of it being of him in a past life and I relistened and could not find the recommended podcast could you let me know what it is? Cheers mates

    You recommended a podcast that included one story of a four-year-old boy that recognized a picture of it being of him in a past life and I relistened and could not find the recommended podcast could you let me know what it is? Cheers mates

  • Jen
    Jen Canada
    When you were talking about light sleeping, I have a comment. I’ma heavy sleeper generally, but both of my infants stirring would wake me up when they slept next to me. Moms have a second sense for their babies. So other noises might not have woken her, especially as a tired mom of three.

    When you were talking about light sleeping, I have a comment. I’ma heavy sleeper generally, but both of my infants stirring would wake me up when they slept next to me. Moms have a second sense for their babies. So other noises might not have woken her, especially as a tired mom of three.

  • edwina
    edwina Nanaimo BC Canada
    (further to my previous comment) The more I think about it from a different motivational perspective, say a sexual assault on the mother--I think it might be possible that the intruder would have been surprised that there were children there if he anticipated that it was just the woman on the couch (like nic said) perhaps when he realized there were children present that he panicked and stabbed them first? I don't know. Very curious case though.

    (further to my previous comment) The more I think about it from a different motivational perspective, say a sexual assault on the mother--I think it might be possible that the intruder would have been surprised that there were children there if he anticipated that it was just the woman on the couch (like nic said) perhaps when he realized there were children present that he panicked and stabbed them first? I don't know. Very curious case though.

  • Cookie
    Cookie Kansas
    That a huge house where dad could sneak outside down to ground floor unwitnessed. I don’t think either one did it. Regardless of the video or the cultural bias placed in it there is not enough evidence! Her defense team was incompetent. We are all one weird night away from death row

    That a huge house where dad could sneak outside down to ground floor unwitnessed. I don’t think either one did it. Regardless of the video or the cultural bias placed in it there is not enough evidence! Her defense team was incompetent.

    We are all one weird night away from death row

  • Jenni
    Jenni Lexington, KY
    Darlie is innocent. Travesty of justice. I hope one day someone gets busted for this somehow and she gets out of prison.

    Darlie is innocent. Travesty of justice. I hope one day someone gets busted for this somehow and she gets out of prison.

  • Jen
    Jen North Carolina
    I'm only on the first part of this episode, but as always, I appreciate y'all, so much! Re: the "light sleeper" thing, I know for me that I was always on "constant alert" when my son was an infant and I was sleeping in the same room as he was, and I would wake up at the slightest noise when sleeping in the room with him, worrying that he needed something. But I was so tired that when I knew he was being tended to otherwise (i.e., my husband was in the room with my son and I slept in another room), I'd CRASH--like, forget-what-century-it-is-when-you-wake-up asleep. Anyway, it's just an additional thought about what some folks see as the inconsistency. Thanks, as always, Nic and Captain! Y'all are the best.

    I'm only on the first part of this episode, but as always, I appreciate y'all, so much! Re: the "light sleeper" thing, I know for me that I was always on "constant alert" when my son was an infant and I was sleeping in the same room as he was, and I would wake up at the slightest noise when sleeping in the room with him, worrying that he needed something. But I was so tired that when I knew he was being tended to otherwise (i.e., my husband was in the room with my son and I slept in another room), I'd CRASH--like, forget-what-century-it-is-when-you-wake-up asleep. Anyway, it's just an additional thought about what some folks see as the inconsistency. Thanks, as always, Nic and Captain! Y'all are the best.

  • Amanda R
    Amanda R Texas
    I was waiting to hear if you guys were going to bring this up. I watched a doc series on Darlie on YouTube and there was an issue brought up in which Darren had actually been trying to hire someone to break into the house and steal some stuff etc so that he could claim the insurance money. As far as I know he has confessed and says that darlie knew absolutely nothing about it. Also! One of the jurors was interviewed and stated basically that she believed darlie was guilty because of the fact that she had bleach blonde hair and breast implants. I think her words were along the lines of “what kind of mother looks like that?” Cheers guys! Love the show!

    I was waiting to hear if you guys were going to bring this up. I watched a doc series on Darlie on YouTube and there was an issue brought up in which Darren had actually been trying to hire someone to break into the house and steal some stuff etc so that he could claim the insurance money. As far as I know he has confessed and says that darlie knew absolutely nothing about it.

    Also! One of the jurors was interviewed and stated basically that she believed darlie was guilty because of the fact that she had bleach blonde hair and breast implants. I think her words were along the lines of “what kind of mother looks like that?”

    Cheers guys! Love the show!

  • I have been waiting for you guys to do this one, so thank you. Geez... if you wanted, this could be a 4-parter. Out of the many times I've read about this case or watched shows about her, I had never thought about a sexual predator putting a knife against her throat and then becoming startled when seeing the young children in the living room and then "flipping out". I always wondered when she says that he left the house through the garage --- but how did he physically leave? A side door or the actual garage door? If I remember, that screen with the "cut marks" was still in the window. Also, it was mentioned that a screen could be nicked or cut with a car key, which is very true depending on the age of the screen and how sun damaged it is. But also, 90 percent of all window screens can be easily taken off with a car key. If you have a knife or other tool to cut a screen, it is very easy to simply use that tool to take the screen off instead of cutting it. So much going on in this case.... and I'm sure you guys are going to talk about the husband's insurance plan...

    I have been waiting for you guys to do this one, so thank you. Geez... if you wanted, this could be a 4-parter. Out of the many times I've read about this case or watched shows about her, I had never thought about a sexual predator putting a knife against her throat and then becoming startled when seeing the young children in the living room and then "flipping out". I always wondered when she says that he left the house through the garage --- but how did he physically leave? A side door or the actual garage door? If I remember, that screen with the "cut marks" was still in the window. Also, it was mentioned that a screen could be nicked or cut with a car key, which is very true depending on the age of the screen and how sun damaged it is. But also, 90 percent of all window screens can be easily taken off with a car key. If you have a knife or other tool to cut a screen, it is very easy to simply use that tool to take the screen off instead of cutting it. So much going on in this case.... and I'm sure you guys are going to talk about the husband's insurance plan...

  • Linda Robin
    Linda Robin
    I've always had trouble with this one! One thing I do know is the DA didn't have enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt and I couldn't have voted to convict her. The defense attorney really did her wrong! Thanks for covering this case. /Linda

    I've always had trouble with this one! One thing I do know is the DA didn't have enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt and I couldn't have voted to convict her. The defense attorney really did her wrong! Thanks for covering this case. /Linda

  • Daniel
    Daniel Fargo, ND
    From what was presented, I see at least a preponderance of evidence for guilt. The secondary knife with residue consistent with the screen is quite damning. No way to square that with an intruder. Nic points out that her wounds seem consistent with defensive wounds. I agree, BUT that isn't the story she told. If she was actively defending herself, wouldn't that be top of mind in her very early retelling of what happened? If she wasn't defending herself, we have to believe that an intruder viciously hacked the kids but sliced rather than hacked her. Makes no sense. And sure, maybe she wasn't a ight sleeper every night, but I feel like any normal non-sedated sleeper would have been aware enough early enough to tell a better story than she did. The sock: do we know how much blood was on it? Do we know how fresh the blood was when it was discovered? As presented, the sock does give me pause, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for an intruder either, especially one who is wearing gloves as Nic seems to suspect. You put on a sock over gloves? I mean. . .maybe. Do we know if Drake is Darin's biological son? One possible motive occurs to me: she secretly despised her husband, saw him as someone to exploit, was cheating on him, and wanted to kill his offspring but not Drake, who she knew was another man's child.

    From what was presented, I see at least a preponderance of evidence for guilt. The secondary knife with residue consistent with the screen is quite damning. No way to square that with an intruder. Nic points out that her wounds seem consistent with defensive wounds. I agree, BUT that isn't the story she told. If she was actively defending herself, wouldn't that be top of mind in her very early retelling of what happened? If she wasn't defending herself, we have to believe that an intruder viciously hacked the kids but sliced rather than hacked her. Makes no sense. And sure, maybe she wasn't a ight sleeper every night, but I feel like any normal non-sedated sleeper would have been aware enough early enough to tell a better story than she did.

    The sock: do we know how much blood was on it? Do we know how fresh the blood was when it was discovered? As presented, the sock does give me pause, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for an intruder either, especially one who is wearing gloves as Nic seems to suspect. You put on a sock over gloves? I mean. . .maybe.

    Do we know if Drake is Darin's biological son? One possible motive occurs to me: she secretly despised her husband, saw him as someone to exploit, was cheating on him, and wanted to kill his offspring but not Drake, who she knew was another man's child.

  • Melissa
    Melissa Florida
    I think that for anyone to make an opinion of a mother who JUST LOST HER CHILDREN, and her behavior just after, should only have had the experience such there of. How dare ANYONE suggest or judge how a MOTHER should or shouldn’t act after the death of her children. Placing myself in her shoes and being a mother of three, I can only imagine if someone suggests having a celebratory birthday at a grave site, I, in a robotic matter, would do as such. I can’t imagine where her mind was at. God bless that entire family and those that have convicted her. Only God knows the truth and He will be the ultimate judge.

    I think that for anyone to make an opinion of a mother who JUST LOST HER CHILDREN, and her behavior just after, should only have had the experience such there of. How dare ANYONE suggest or judge how a MOTHER should or shouldn’t act after the death of her children. Placing myself in her shoes and being a mother of three, I can only imagine if someone suggests having a celebratory birthday at a grave site, I, in a robotic matter, would do as such. I can’t imagine where her mind was at. God bless that entire family and those that have convicted her. Only God knows the truth and He will be the ultimate judge.

  • Slatts McCracker
    Slatts McCracker Syd-Aus
    Well damn, I might have to take a closer look at this. Had always been comfortable with her guilt even with recent docos. ‘If’ she is innocent I very much hope advances in touch DNA (m-vac, etc) can clear her. Very 50 / 50 on this case - probably more than any other. Some thoughts: -if there are unknown fingerprints doesn’t that suggest no gloves? So then what’s up with the sock only having her DNA (I realise you may have 2 offenders, 1 with gloves, 1 without, and that generally the sock’s existence supports Darlie) -TLS is an interesting suspect but given the media this case got I think he would have taken credit as he did with other cases -guilt or innocence, the video footage (any of it) should not have been allowed in. Completely irrelevant to the crime. Hoping they through open the file and allow all possible testing so that we can hopefully find the truth. It would be great if DNA acquired via new methods led to the perp (if not Dairlie) via genetic DNA Cheers Slatts

    Well damn, I might have to take a closer look at this. Had always been comfortable with her guilt even with recent docos.

    ‘If’ she is innocent I very much hope advances in touch DNA (m-vac, etc) can clear her. Very 50 / 50 on this case - probably more than any other. Some thoughts:

    -if there are unknown fingerprints doesn’t that suggest no gloves? So then what’s up with the sock only having her DNA (I realise you may have 2 offenders, 1 with gloves, 1 without, and that generally the sock’s existence supports Darlie)

    -TLS is an interesting suspect but given the media this case got I think he would have taken credit as he did with other cases

    -guilt or innocence, the video footage (any of it) should not have been allowed in. Completely irrelevant to the crime.

    Hoping they through open the file and allow all possible testing so that we can hopefully find the truth. It would be great if DNA acquired via new methods led to the perp (if not Dairlie) via genetic DNA

    Cheers
    Slatts

  • Sunny
    Sunny Canada
    This is one of those cases I remember from my teenage years, covered on one of Bill Curtis' A&E shows. I've not heard the case covered since then but remember thinking she's 100% guilty. I can picture her chewing gum in that graveside birthday party video; weird but it stuck in my head. These episodes were eye-opening! Definitely feeling different about it all now.

    This is one of those cases I remember from my teenage years, covered on one of Bill Curtis' A&E shows. I've not heard the case covered since then but remember thinking she's 100% guilty. I can picture her chewing gum in that graveside birthday party video; weird but it stuck in my head. These episodes were eye-opening! Definitely feeling different about it all now.

  • Amber Lizzy
    Amber Lizzy Tucson, AZ
    I have SO many thoughts, so I'll jump right in.. The light sleeper argument is total crap when talking about a mother to an infant. Mothers are chemically wired to wake up at the tiniest thing from their baby. I swear, my sister can't hear a thing most of the time, and she could sleep through D Day. But she hears noises from her baby that dogs couldn't hear. So the idea that she would wake up if she were in the room with her baby but be able to sleep through this attack downstairs doesn't even make me bat an eye. Also, is she right handed or left handed? The slash on her neck, in my humble garage opinion, would not look like that if she inflicted it on herself with her right hand. Between that and the screen being cut from outside, I'm convinced that she is innocent. But that doesn't even matter. What matters is REASONABLE DOUBT, and if she were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt we wouldn't still be talking about the case today.

    I have SO many thoughts, so I'll jump right in.. The light sleeper argument is total crap when talking about a mother to an infant. Mothers are chemically wired to wake up at the tiniest thing from their baby. I swear, my sister can't hear a thing most of the time, and she could sleep through D Day. But she hears noises from her baby that dogs couldn't hear. So the idea that she would wake up if she were in the room with her baby but be able to sleep through this attack downstairs doesn't even make me bat an eye. Also, is she right handed or left handed? The slash on her neck, in my humble garage opinion, would not look like that if she inflicted it on herself with her right hand. Between that and the screen being cut from outside, I'm convinced that she is innocent. But that doesn't even matter. What matters is REASONABLE DOUBT, and if she were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt we wouldn't still be talking about the case today.

  • Carolyn
    Carolyn New Zealand
    I noticed in the emergency call she told the operator he killed my babies. Then later she said they. They indicates more than one person...I think they've got the right person.

    I noticed in the emergency call she told the operator he killed my babies. Then later she said they. They indicates more than one person...I think they've got the right person.

  • Bernadette
    Bernadette Colorado
    Just a thought...as a mom and a light sleeper, I wonder if because the baby was upstairs and she knew he’d be taken care of by daddy if he woke up, that she slept more soundly. I know when my kids were smaller and waking up during the night I was easier to wake than I am now.

    Just a thought...as a mom and a light sleeper, I wonder if because the baby was upstairs and she knew he’d be taken care of by daddy if he woke up, that she slept more soundly. I know when my kids were smaller and waking up during the night I was easier to wake than I am now.

  • David
    David Missouri
    Why would someone bold enough to enter a home, not knowing how many people are in there, be willing to brutally attack two children to get to the woman on the couch - as you guys postulate as his original intention - suddenly back off from her? Why didn’t he finish the job? He apparently still had the murder weapon in his possession as he fled if you believe Darlie’s story. And he apparently hadn’t been injured because he didn’t leave blood. Just decided to take it easy on the mother and leave a potential witness? Also no mention of the odd statements and behavior of Darlie after the fact as attested to by paramedics, friends, and hospital staff.

    Why would someone bold enough to enter a home, not knowing how many people are in there, be willing to brutally attack two children to get to the woman on the couch - as you guys postulate as his original intention - suddenly back off from her? Why didn’t he finish the job? He apparently still had the murder weapon in his possession as he fled if you believe Darlie’s story. And he apparently hadn’t been injured because he didn’t leave blood. Just decided to take it easy on the mother and leave a potential witness?

    Also no mention of the odd statements and behavior of Darlie after the fact as attested to by paramedics, friends, and hospital staff.

  • Nikki
    Nikki Parts unknown
    Regarding the sock, werent they running around getting neighbors? That leaves time. Granted I don't know which neighbor it was near or Know what I believe. Just pointing it out.

    Regarding the sock, werent they running around getting neighbors? That leaves time. Granted I don't know which neighbor it was near or Know what I believe. Just pointing it out.

  • Susan
    Susan parts unknown
    I think that the 911 call sounds very authentic --- I can usually sense when there is some "faking" going on; I found her demeanor on the call very genuine. I also think that a mom would not use a knife to kill her kids --- too messy, and too brutal, too chaotic. However, the whole story of an intruder is so implausible that it easy to see why they would focus in on the mom. Her behavior afterwards was pretty bizarre as well; this case is a tough call

    I think that the 911 call sounds very authentic --- I can usually sense when there is some "faking" going on; I found her demeanor on the call very genuine. I also think that a mom would not use a knife to kill her kids --- too messy, and too brutal, too chaotic. However, the whole story of an intruder is so implausible that it easy to see why they would focus in on the mom. Her behavior afterwards was pretty bizarre as well; this case is a tough call

  • Elizabeth
    Elizabeth Uruguay
    Hi there! You asked for listeners’ takes on this case and here is mine: True guilty party here ? Her defense team. It seems a lot more emphasis should have been put on the other recent / same night (!) criminal activity, that sock, the initial portion of that birthday gathering video (as a whole a bad idea, nonetheless) and several other aspects that to me spoke about this woman being blamed for something she didn’t do. A complete tragedy, losing your children, seeing them die in front of you and on top being accused of their murders. Plenty of times while listening, Jeffrey MacDonald’s case came to mind and every time I thought he was evidently guilty and she was not. In any case, her wounds were very serious, had she been lying on the floor not able to make that 911 phone call would she had even been blamed the way she was? Considering her injuries she was probably mustering all her strength in an effort to save her children. And, really, why ? She was about to take a trip to Mexico with friends, her husband seemed supportive, nothing tells me that she was in a desperate situation before that tragic night. Exhausted, sure, but hardly exceptional. One last thought. The children’s life insurance policies were meager. What about hers? If any, I would have drawn my attention towards the husband and a hypothetical accomplice of him. Still, far fetched. Probably it was just an outsider without ties to them. I hope something comes out those DNA tests they are planning to perform. Good job, guys! Keep it up !

    Hi there! You asked for listeners’ takes on this case and here is mine:

    True guilty party here ? Her defense team. It seems a lot more emphasis should have been put on the other recent / same night (!) criminal activity, that sock, the initial portion of that birthday gathering video (as a whole a bad idea, nonetheless) and several other aspects that to me spoke about this woman being blamed for something she didn’t do. A complete tragedy, losing your children, seeing them die in front of you and on top being accused of their murders. Plenty of times while listening, Jeffrey MacDonald’s case came to mind and every time I thought he was evidently guilty and she was not.
    In any case, her wounds were very serious, had she been lying on the floor not able to make that 911 phone call would she had even been blamed the way she was? Considering her injuries she was probably mustering all her strength in an effort to save her children.
    And, really, why ? She was about to take a trip to Mexico with friends, her husband seemed supportive, nothing tells me that she was in a desperate situation before that tragic night. Exhausted, sure, but hardly exceptional.

    One last thought. The children’s life insurance policies were meager. What about hers? If any, I would have drawn my attention towards the husband and a hypothetical accomplice of him. Still, far fetched. Probably it was just an outsider without ties to them. I hope something comes out those DNA tests they are planning to perform.

    Good job, guys! Keep it up !

  • Susan
    Susan parts unknown
    P.S. The serial killer angle is very intriguing, however.

    P.S. The serial killer angle is very intriguing, however.

  • Cee Bee
    Cee Bee
    @ Nic - If you are a NICE weirdo then that fits and The :L won't regret wasting 10min on this Qairre http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp (don't do 16 Personalities test which isn't actually mbti) A quick squizz thru this page may then also be of interest https://www.truity.com/type-relationship-advisor/I/N/F/J/E/S/T/P

    @ Nic - If you are a NICE weirdo then that fits and The :L won't regret wasting 10min on this Qairre http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp
    (don't do 16 Personalities test which isn't actually mbti)
    A quick squizz thru this page may then also be of interest https://www.truity.com/type-relationship-advisor/I/N/F/J/E/S/T/P

  • chris
    chris ct
    The first thing Darin did when he came downstairs was to try to resuscitate one of the boys. Darlie never did that. She never asked the 911 operator what she should do to help the boys --put pressure on their wounds, do CPR, etc. I believe Darin said she was on the other side of the room the whole time. How can you not want to help your children? How can you not want to be right next to them, holding them if they are dying? Why are you even thinking about the knife?! The children should have been her priority.

    The first thing Darin did when he came downstairs was to try to resuscitate one of the boys. Darlie never did that. She never asked the 911 operator what she should do to help the boys --put pressure on their wounds, do CPR, etc. I believe Darin said she was on the other side of the room the whole time. How can you not want to help your children? How can you not want to be right next to them, holding them if they are dying? Why are you even thinking about the knife?! The children should have been her priority.

  • SheilaM
    SheilaM
    I feel that this is a miscarriage of justice. As Nic said, I'm almost sure the misjudged birthday party at the graveside had a lot to do with Darlie's conviction. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this was a rape crime, not a burglary. Another woman who was asleep on her sofa, experiencing two males trying to enter her home in the middle of the night is rather a coincidence. Having given up on their first attempt and finding another woman asleep on her sofa, they tried again. One of them grabbed the knife intending to use it for control purposes. Surprised to find the two boys asleep on the floor, they were thrown, but probably thought they would be able to control them, not realising what fiesty little critters 5 and 6 year olds can be. The situation quickly got out of hand. I've heard / read about incidents where the perpetrator inflicts injuries upon themselves and I don't think Darlie's injuries were self inflicted. They were serious. I've seen the photos from the hospital. I've read the descriptions. I honestly don't think it's possible. Oh... and I also think she lost consciousness for periods of time, without realising it, and was piecing together her story from what she remembered.

    I feel that this is a miscarriage of justice. As Nic said, I'm almost sure the misjudged birthday party at the graveside had a lot to do with Darlie's conviction.

    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this was a rape crime, not a burglary. Another woman who was asleep on her sofa, experiencing two males trying to enter her home in the middle of the night is rather a coincidence.

    Having given up on their first attempt and finding another woman asleep on her sofa, they tried again. One of them grabbed the knife intending to use it for control purposes.

    Surprised to find the two boys asleep on the floor, they were thrown, but probably thought they would be able to control them, not realising what fiesty little critters 5 and 6 year olds can be. The situation quickly got out of hand.

    I've heard / read about incidents where the perpetrator inflicts injuries upon themselves and I don't think Darlie's injuries were self inflicted. They were serious. I've seen the photos from the hospital. I've read the descriptions. I honestly don't think it's possible.

    Oh... and I also think she lost consciousness for periods of time, without realising it, and was piecing together her story from what she remembered.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage MA
    What about the blood drops on the back of her shirt shoulder area and the print of the knife on the back. Also, why would you be so sure the boys saw her do it, if they were asleep! She also said she woke up and saw the guy, not that she fought him off of her. You also forgot to mention her blood and the broken wine glass! Many things you guys forgot to also fit your narrative.

    What about the blood drops on the back of her shirt shoulder area and the print of the knife on the back. Also, why would you be so sure the boys saw her do it, if they were asleep! She also said she woke up and saw the guy, not that she fought him off of her.
    You also forgot to mention her blood and the broken wine glass! Many things you guys forgot to also fit your narrative.

  • RACHEL
    RACHEL O-H-I-O
    @ceebee I would peg the Captain as ENFP and Nic as an INTJ. I am an ENFJ myself :) As for Darlie....where do I begin? I think the fact that anywhere in the 911 phone call, be it at second #2 or minute #5, that she begins to discuss a solution to what happened here is evidence of her guilt. That has nothing to do with the imminent danger her children are in. Zero. I would go so far as to say that as a mother, if my babies were hurt and needed saving, I would even confess to the crime in that moment if it would get the officers to stop looking for a bad guy and spend their time saving my kids. It harkens back to the story of King Solomon slicing a baby in half to to settle an argument, and the real mom making such a dramatic self sacrifice to save the life of her child. There is no sacrifice too big for a parent to make for heir children. Period. But what I hear in Darlie's words, not her voice, but her language, is concern over what will happen to her next. I think the reason she only mentions touching the knife later is because it was at that point that the officer said not to touch it. She was not confused as to his meaning which shows a level of mental clarity to me, and she immediately jumps in with the foundations of a defense. Also, it's so dark you cant see the features of a person, but you can see blood? I dont think so. What is written in a police report comes after someone is given time to reflect, It may not be much, but it is certainly longer than the amount of time you have to choose your words when you are speaking with someone, especially a dispatcher. So tend to put more weight into what someone says at the genesis of these cases than later on. I cannot fathom what would make a mother do this, but I think the police got the right person. I think if we remove the names of the individuals and who they are in relation to each other and just name them person A, B. and C and then lay the crime scene out as it occurred, I think it would be easier of people to accept Darlie's guilt because they wouldn't have the bias of projecting onto the situation their own feelings as parents. I think this same philosophy in trying to solve crimes should be applied to other famous cases, like Jonbenet's.

    @ceebee I would peg the Captain as ENFP and Nic as an INTJ. I am an ENFJ myself smile

    As for Darlie....where do I begin? I think the fact that anywhere in the 911 phone call, be it at second #2 or minute #5, that she begins to discuss a solution to what happened here is evidence of her guilt. That has nothing to do with the imminent danger her children are in. Zero. I would go so far as to say that as a mother, if my babies were hurt and needed saving, I would even confess to the crime in that moment if it would get the officers to stop looking for a bad guy and spend their time saving my kids. It harkens back to the story of King Solomon slicing a baby in half to to settle an argument, and the real mom making such a dramatic self sacrifice to save the life of her child. There is no sacrifice too big for a parent to make for heir children. Period. But what I hear in Darlie's words, not her voice, but her language, is concern over what will happen to her next. I think the reason she only mentions touching the knife later is because it was at that point that the officer said not to touch it. She was not confused as to his meaning which shows a level of mental clarity to me, and she immediately jumps in with the foundations of a defense. Also, it's so dark you cant see the features of a person, but you can see blood? I dont think so. What is written in a police report comes after someone is given time to reflect, It may not be much, but it is certainly longer than the amount of time you have to choose your words when you are speaking with someone, especially a dispatcher. So tend to put more weight into what someone says at the genesis of these cases than later on. I cannot fathom what would make a mother do this, but I think the police got the right person. I think if we remove the names of the individuals and who they are in relation to each other and just name them person A, B. and C and then lay the crime scene out as it occurred, I think it would be easier of people to accept Darlie's guilt because they wouldn't have the bias of projecting onto the situation their own feelings as parents. I think this same philosophy in trying to solve crimes should be applied to other famous cases, like Jonbenet's.

  • Helsey
    Helsey Oz
    If I had to vote then I'd vote not guilty not saying I think she is innocent just that I have reasonable doubt. It truly is a real " buggered if I know" case.

    If I had to vote then I'd vote not guilty not saying I think she is innocent just that I have reasonable doubt. It truly is a real " buggered if I know" case.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Bowser - that was an ad we did earlier this year but not sure what episode. I believe you are talking about the Strange and Unexplained podcast. Happy listening! Nic

    @ Bowser - that was an ad we did earlier this year but not sure what episode.
    I believe you are talking about the Strange and Unexplained podcast.
    Happy listening!
    Nic

  • Susan
    Susan Vancouver
    100% guilty c'mon man knives plunged into those innocent kids and she has basically hesitation wounds, not one other piece of evidence that another person was in that home in footprints, fingerprints, nothing. She so nicely covered that her prints are on the knife because she picked it up.

    100% guilty c'mon man knives plunged into those innocent kids and she has basically hesitation wounds, not one other piece of evidence that another person was in that home in footprints, fingerprints, nothing. She so nicely covered that her prints are on the knife because she picked it up.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Nikki, That is a really good point. I'm going off of memory but I believe Darin's sock was found in the opposite direction of the neighbor Karen that he ran to get help. I think she lived across the street. Regardless you do bring up a thought that gives a lot more possibility to someone from the Routier house planting the sock. It does feel like if that were the case then the two would have to be in it together. Which I would expect one to turn on the other at some point and they have not. I'm not saying 100% that would happen just a gut feeling. Cheers Nic

    @ Nikki,
    That is a really good point. I'm going off of memory but I believe Darin's sock was found in the opposite direction of the neighbor Karen that he ran to get help. I think she lived across the street. Regardless you do bring up a thought that gives a lot more possibility to someone from the Routier house planting the sock. It does feel like if that were the case then the two would have to be in it together. Which I would expect one to turn on the other at some point and they have not. I'm not saying 100% that would happen just a gut feeling.
    Cheers Nic

  • Cynthia
    Cynthia Phx az
    There is wayyyy too much reasonable doubt. The firat being the lady who saw 2 guys trying to get into her house. Same time and same neighborhood, reasonable doubt! I cant even remember what anyone says to me after any surgery let alone keep my eyes open for an interview. Thats just ridiculous. Not showing the video of the tears and prayer, malpractice imo! That serial killer killing the kid then stabbing the lady in the neck. Way too similar ! I dont believe for 1 minute she did this!!! Use your reasonable brain. Also kids take their socks off inside out and moms put their hands into the sock to turn it inside right! Explain her dna inside duh. I hope the innocence project gets involved before they kill this innocent woman!!!

    There is wayyyy too much reasonable doubt. The firat being the lady who saw 2 guys trying to get into her house. Same time and same neighborhood, reasonable doubt! I cant even remember what anyone says to me after any surgery let alone keep my eyes open for an interview. Thats just ridiculous. Not showing the video of the tears and prayer, malpractice imo! That serial killer killing the kid then stabbing the lady in the neck. Way too similar ! I dont believe for 1 minute she did this!!! Use your reasonable brain. Also kids take their socks off inside out and moms put their hands into the sock to turn it inside right! Explain her dna inside duh. I hope the innocence project gets involved before they kill this innocent woman!!!

  • Mike
    Mike Simi Valley
    Nice job defending a child murderer as this entire podcast leaned to her innocence almost 96%, very little paid to the multitude of evidence she is a child murderer. Nice defense guys try to be more balanced and leave your opinions out.

    Nice job defending a child murderer as this entire podcast leaned to her innocence almost 96%, very little paid to the multitude of evidence she is a child murderer. Nice defense guys try to be more balanced and leave your opinions out.

  • Donnie
    Donnie Ky
    I can’t fathom why the killer would brutally kill two children but then “walk” away from the mother who is still alive frantically screaming. Wouldn’t the killers #1 objective be to kill the mother, No matter what the motive was? You guys did a decent job explaining some of the circumstantial evidence but Im afraid there is just to much of it. A persons motive is never clear When they are depressed and suffering from a mental illness. She did it.

    I can’t fathom why the killer would brutally kill two children but then “walk” away from the mother who is still alive frantically screaming. Wouldn’t the killers #1 objective be to kill the mother, No matter what the motive was?
    You guys did a decent job explaining some of the circumstantial evidence but Im afraid there is just to much of it. A persons motive is never clear When they are depressed and suffering from a mental illness. She did it.

  • Boozie
    Boozie Canada
    I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that Darlie Routier is guilty of the murders of her sons. My belief is based on the overwhelming forensic DNA evidence against her coupled with her lies during her testimony at trial. Since her trial, she has had more post conviction DNA testing than any other DR inmate in Texas and she still cannot put an unknown male in her home that night. The sock which has been tested again and again only contains Darlie's DNA and the two boys blood. Darlie put the sock where it was found as the touch DNA alleges. Darlie's wounds were self-inflicted, her neck wound downward and crooked and contains two hesitations. the boys were kileld with knife wounds in their hearts, lungs etc., her little scratches hardly compare. Plus she lied her head off in front of the jury at her trial. Who does that if they're innocent. Learn the evidence!!!! The 2015 Y-STR DNA tests on the sock, the murder weapon, the bloody prints, her nightshirt and much more exclude an unknown male and her husband as the killer.

    I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that Darlie Routier is guilty of the murders of her sons. My belief is based on the overwhelming forensic DNA evidence against her coupled with her lies during her testimony at trial. Since her trial, she has had more post conviction DNA testing than any other DR inmate in Texas and she still cannot put an unknown male in her home that night. The sock which has been tested again and again only contains Darlie's DNA and the two boys blood. Darlie put the sock where it was found as the touch DNA alleges. Darlie's wounds were self-inflicted, her neck wound downward and crooked and contains two hesitations. the boys were kileld with knife wounds in their hearts, lungs etc., her little scratches hardly compare. Plus she lied her head off in front of the jury at her trial. Who does that if they're innocent. Learn the evidence!!!! The 2015 Y-STR DNA tests on the sock, the murder weapon, the bloody prints, her nightshirt and much more exclude an unknown male and her husband as the killer.

  • Lisa
    Lisa Toronto
    She did it, they got the right person, rot in hell.

    She did it, they got the right person, rot in hell.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Ouch! Thanks Lisa. Cheers Nic

    Ouch! Thanks Lisa.
    Cheers Nic

  • Todd
    Todd Brookyln
    What Lisa said :)

    What Lisa said smile

  • Jez MyOpinion
    Jez MyOpinion
    Sorry, guys, you missed this one. Her knife used to cut screen, jewelry wasn't taken at sink where clean up occurred, she named 2 men in her jail letters & freaked out on the stand when asked about it, blood under the glass & vacuum, no cuts on her feet, wine glass was latched wouldn't have been knocked down, Domain didn't bark, motion lites not on, she called media herself to film that grave scene. Her mother had the opportunity a few years ago to go on Dr. Phil? Worldwide attn and any dna testing? She refused. Why? She knows her daughter did this. Her fans say necklace was embedded, had to be surgically removed but it simply fell off when bandage removed. Bruising on her arms prob caused by boys kicking her off. Her wounds were superficial & she didn't know what/where carotid was. She was lucky she didn't kill herself. She was such a light sleeper that she would wake up when Drake turned over in his crib yet she slept through all that? She's guilty. http://www.darlieroutierfactandfiction.com/

    Sorry, guys, you missed this one. Her knife used to cut screen, jewelry wasn't taken at sink where clean up occurred, she named 2 men in her jail letters & freaked out on the stand when asked about it, blood under the glass & vacuum, no cuts on her feet, wine glass was latched wouldn't have been knocked down, Domain didn't bark, motion lites not on, she called media herself to film that grave scene. Her mother had the opportunity a few years ago to go on Dr. Phil? Worldwide attn and any dna testing? She refused. Why? She knows her daughter did this. Her fans say necklace was embedded, had to be surgically removed but it simply fell off when bandage removed. Bruising on her arms prob caused by boys kicking her off. Her wounds were superficial & she didn't know what/where carotid was. She was lucky she didn't kill herself. She was such a light sleeper that she would wake up when Drake turned over in his crib yet she slept through all that? She's guilty. http://www.darlieroutierfactandfiction.com/

  • Jenn
    Jenn Unknown
    Y’all went into such detail with the 911 call but you never even talked about the fact that she was cut across the throat and never mentions her own wounds or pain. She says at one point “I don’t feel so good” but that right there was such a mama thing to do! “Save my babies, come help! They’re dying!” And not ever mentioning her own pain/injuries! That was huge for me. As a mom, I would totally do the same. If you’re guilty and 2mm from dying, I feel like you’d be yelling “come save US, WE are dying!”

    Y’all went into such detail with the 911 call but you never even talked about the fact that she was cut across the throat and never mentions her own wounds or pain. She says at one point “I don’t feel so good” but that right there was such a mama thing to do! “Save my babies, come help! They’re dying!” And not ever mentioning her own pain/injuries! That was huge for me. As a mom, I would totally do the same. If you’re guilty and 2mm from dying, I feel like you’d be yelling “come save US, WE are dying!”

  • Second Comment --- I've been thinking about this $10, 000 life insurance and their alleged "financial troubles". Someone has the accounting of their financial situation at that time and it is easy for us to look at it and say that they were in trouble or they weren't in trouble. Obviously, Greg Davis and others said they were in trouble. But, we look at it based on our personal biases when it comes to our own financial literacy. Let's assume they were in financial trouble and I believe Darlie didn't work. From my personal experience through observations of family, friends and coworkers, those who are in financial trouble have low financial literacy, but not necessarily at their own fault. That may be either through a lack of math skills, bad spending behaviors, things out of your control, unexpected family problems, or a combination of all four. If Darlie believed they were in trouble, her financial literacy at the time may have been flawed, possibly leading to an abstract understanding of life insurance and/or a lack of understanding of how much funerals cost. If she was on a path of flawed financial literacy, a motive of life insurance may not be that out of reach at that time in her life. The lack of money is a motive, but combine that with a perceived person's understanding of finances. Just imagine if the internet was more prevalent at that time and internet searches were obtained.

    Second Comment --- I've been thinking about this $10, 000 life insurance and their alleged "financial troubles". Someone has the accounting of their financial situation at that time and it is easy for us to look at it and say that they were in trouble or they weren't in trouble. Obviously, Greg Davis and others said they were in trouble. But, we look at it based on our personal biases when it comes to our own financial literacy.

    Let's assume they were in financial trouble and I believe Darlie didn't work. From my personal experience through observations of family, friends and coworkers, those who are in financial trouble have low financial literacy, but not necessarily at their own fault. That may be either through a lack of math skills, bad spending behaviors, things out of your control, unexpected family problems, or a combination of all four. If Darlie believed they were in trouble, her financial literacy at the time may have been flawed, possibly leading to an abstract understanding of life insurance and/or a lack of understanding of how much funerals cost. If she was on a path of flawed financial literacy, a motive of life insurance may not be that out of reach at that time in her life. The lack of money is a motive, but combine that with a perceived person's understanding of finances. Just imagine if the internet was more prevalent at that time and internet searches were obtained.

  • Nancy S.
    Nancy S. Michigan
    She pursued the intruder, who was holding a knife. He dropped the knife and fled. Why would he not kill the only witness who could identify him? A police officer asked her to apply pressure with a towel to one of her son’s wounds, but she did not do that. When paramedics arrived, she did not ask about her sons’ conditions. She had drops of blood down the back of her shirt which suggests she held the knife over her head as she stabbed the children. Her husband divorced her because their lives were “in limbo,” but he still believes in her innocence? If I believed in my spouse’s innocence, I would continue to fight for him. I think she killed her sons. Maybe her husband, psychologically, could not accept that she did but in his heart believes she did. Do we know if she was suffering from post-partum depression and the extent of it? That is a possible motive that should not be discounted. See Andrea Yates.

    She pursued the intruder, who was holding a knife. He dropped the knife and fled. Why would he not kill the only witness who could identify him? A police officer asked her to apply pressure with a towel to one of her son’s wounds, but she did not do that. When paramedics arrived, she did not ask about her sons’ conditions. She had drops of blood down the back of her shirt which suggests she held the knife over her head as she stabbed the children. Her husband divorced her because their lives were “in limbo,” but he still believes in her innocence? If I believed in my spouse’s innocence, I would continue to fight for him. I think she killed her sons. Maybe her husband, psychologically, could not accept that she did but in his heart believes she did. Do we know if she was suffering from post-partum depression and the extent of it? That is a possible motive that should not be discounted. See Andrea Yates.

  • Daniel
    Daniel Fargo, ND
    I watched the "On Death Row" episode about this case, and saw the photo of the sock. I'm now convinced beyond a reasonable doubt she's guilty. The sock had a small amount of blood and was lain in plain sight next to both a garbage can and a storm drain. I think she planted it before the murder. She would have had a good sense of whether anyone had observed her. If she thought that was possible she would have aborted the plan and tried another time. She presents as psychopathic to me in her interviews from death row. I do not believe this was post partum depression or that Darin was involved. He was/is the number one sucker in her life.

    I watched the "On Death Row" episode about this case, and saw the photo of the sock. I'm now convinced beyond a reasonable doubt she's guilty. The sock had a small amount of blood and was lain in plain sight next to both a garbage can and a storm drain. I think she planted it before the murder. She would have had a good sense of whether anyone had observed her. If she thought that was possible she would have aborted the plan and tried another time.

    She presents as psychopathic to me in her interviews from death row. I do not believe this was post partum depression or that Darin was involved. He was/is the number one sucker in her life.

  • Heather
    Heather Oregon
    Was the husband ever looked at as another potential suspect? Just a thought...It bothers me that that the life insurance on the husband was enormous compared to the minuscule amount on the boys. Was there life insurance on Darlie herself? This is one case I have serious doubts about her guilt. She has enormous combative bruising on her arms. Fresh bruising. Did her spouse use the child’s sock to cover his hand during the acts? The silly string incident is meaningless to me - and I am a Mom of four. Thanks guys, great coverage.

    Was the husband ever looked at as another potential suspect? Just a thought...It bothers me that that the life insurance on the husband was enormous compared to the minuscule amount on the boys. Was there life insurance on Darlie herself? This is one case I have serious doubts about her guilt. She has enormous combative bruising on her arms. Fresh bruising. Did her spouse use the child’s sock to cover his hand during the acts? The silly string incident is meaningless to me - and I am a Mom of four. Thanks guys, great coverage.

  • SuziBeth
    SuziBeth
    Cee Bee & Rachel: Disagree! I would say, going only by what can be gleaned from within the confines of the podcasts, Nic ESTJ and Capt INFP. The E/I being the iffiest segment as A) someone who is by no means introverted but is introspective will show up as an 'I' [Myers-Briggs] and B) often podcasters, Youtubers, et al who may seem extroverted by virtue of the fact of simply presenting in their respective medium can be, irl, not necessarily so. Having said that, will someone please get the Captain some screwdrivers, a letter opener, and a decent vacuum cleaner that doesn't fall over if you simply walk by it?!? 😊

    Cee Bee & Rachel: Disagree! I would say, going only by what can be gleaned from within the confines of the podcasts, Nic ESTJ and Capt INFP. The E/I being the iffiest segment as A) someone who is by no means introverted but is introspective will show up as an 'I' [Myers-Briggs] and B)
    often podcasters, Youtubers, et al who may seem extroverted by virtue of the fact of simply presenting in their respective medium can be, irl, not necessarily so.
    Having said that, will someone please get the Captain some screwdrivers, a letter opener, and a decent vacuum cleaner that doesn't fall over if you simply walk by it?!? 😊

  • Danny
    Danny RI
    You boys should try out for the olympics with the high level mental gymnastics at play here. I've never heard a more biased take on this case.

    You boys should try out for the olympics with the high level mental gymnastics at play here. I've never heard a more biased take on this case.

  • Kim
    Kim Texas
    You guys didn't mention Darlie's suicide note written just a month prior to the murders or that she and Darin had been discussing divorce that evening according to their later statements. Also, why didn't Darlie ask Darin if baby Drake was okay when Darin came downstairs? Why didn't she run up the stairs to check on him as soon as she realized Damon and Devin had been attacked while they slept? She never mentions the baby at any time during the 5 minute 911 call. It's like she knew he was fine or something. Also, remember Diane Downs? She shot her children and then drove them to the hospital knowing that at least one was still alive. That didn't stop her from claiming some random stranger had done it. It's possible that Darlie thought Damon was dead when she dialed 911 only to realize he was still alive after Darin came downstairs.

    You guys didn't mention Darlie's suicide note written just a month prior to the murders or that she and Darin had been discussing divorce that evening according to their later statements.
    Also, why didn't Darlie ask Darin if baby Drake was okay when Darin came downstairs? Why didn't she run up the stairs to check on him as soon as she realized Damon and Devin had been attacked while they slept? She never mentions the baby at any time during the 5 minute 911 call. It's like she knew he was fine or something.
    Also, remember Diane Downs? She shot her children and then drove them to the hospital knowing that at least one was still alive. That didn't stop her from claiming some random stranger had done it. It's possible that Darlie thought Damon was dead when she dialed 911 only to realize he was still alive after Darin came downstairs.

  • Chad
    Chad Texas
    I lived around the corner from the Routiers at the time of the murders. Their house was odd in that they had a huge fountain out front that didn’t really seem to fit the house or the neighborhood. There was a rumor in the neighborhood at the time that there was a drug connection: the story was that they were drug runners who had screwed up and the husband had to choose one child to protect. This doesn’t hold up for me, though. There were a lot of petty crimes in the neighborhood at the time. My car tires were stabbed on two occasions (multiple stabs with a large knife into both tires on one side). Car windows were smashed, general destructive behavior from somebody in the neighborhood. I’ve always felt that there were some really nasty, messed up people living in that area. I moved out after a year. I don’t think Darlie is guilty.

    I lived around the corner from the Routiers at the time of the murders. Their house was odd in that they had a huge fountain out front that didn’t really seem to fit the house or the neighborhood.
    There was a rumor in the neighborhood at the time that there was a drug connection: the story was that they were drug runners who had screwed up and the husband had to choose one child to protect. This doesn’t hold up for me, though.
    There were a lot of petty crimes in the neighborhood at the time. My car tires were stabbed on two occasions (multiple stabs with a large knife into both tires on one side). Car windows were smashed, general destructive behavior from somebody in the neighborhood. I’ve always felt that there were some really nasty, messed up people living in that area. I moved out after a year. I don’t think Darlie is guilty.

  • Janis
    Janis Michigan
    I agree with Boozie in Canada and I would add, with regard to the boys saying anything like “mom did this...” ?! They were mortally wounded and in shock from the trauma, one boy was dead and the other’s wounds were so bad the knife went through to the floor, he wouldn’t have been physically able to communicate anything. Darlie was lying when she said he responded “ok mommy...” it’s in the trial testimony that, due to his wounds, the shock and the trauma it would be very unlikely he would be capable of speaking coherently at all. There is A LOT of physical evidence against her and very little, if any, evidence of an intruder. This very much reminds me of the Jeffery Macdonald case. What intruder would overkill little kids and leave the only witness alive?! She’s guilty. Thanks for your hard work I enjoy your show even when we disagree! CHEERS:)

    I agree with Boozie in Canada and I would add, with regard to the boys saying anything like “mom did this...” ?! They were mortally wounded and in shock from the trauma, one boy was dead and the other’s wounds were so bad the knife went through to the floor, he wouldn’t have been physically able to communicate anything. Darlie was lying when she said he responded “ok mommy...” it’s in the trial testimony that, due to his wounds, the shock and the trauma it would be very unlikely he would be capable of speaking coherently at all. There is A LOT of physical evidence against her and very little, if any, evidence of an intruder. This very much reminds me of the Jeffery Macdonald case. What intruder would overkill little kids and leave the only witness alive?! She’s guilty. Thanks for your hard work I enjoy your show even when we disagree! CHEERSsmile

  • Matt O
    Matt O Ashland, VA
    She is guilty. The old adage, "when you see hoof prints, look for horses and not zebras". Two things convince me. First. No evidence of anyone other than family members in the house. If someone had stabbed three people with a knife, they would likely have been injured as well (knife attacks are bloody for both the victim and the perp). The smudged fingerprints don't prove anyone outside the family was there. A small "kids" print could also be a small woman, yes? Second, the blood sock. Everyone seems to think this points to innocent, but it almost proves guilt to me. If someone had just attacked three people with a knife and the three victims were as bloody as evidence says, why isn't Darlie's blood found on the sock? Just the two boys blood there and Darlie's DNA inside the sock. This points to a timeline where: Darlie kills the boys (likely a post-partem incident - who knows). walks through the house and drops the knife picks up the sock or is wearing the sock with blood and needs to dispose of this evidence - does so down the street (it's after midnight, most people are asleep and wouldn't necessarily see her wandering about) returns and stages the screen (maybe even pushes herself through to make it look legit) performs self-inflicted wounds now (this is why her blood is not on the sock) starts her 911 act. Easy peasy. Timeline is unknown so definitely some time to commit this. My humble $0.02. Keep up the good work.

    She is guilty. The old adage, "when you see hoof prints, look for horses and not zebras". Two things convince me.

    First. No evidence of anyone other than family members in the house. If someone had stabbed three people with a knife, they would likely have been injured as well (knife attacks are bloody for both the victim and the perp). The smudged fingerprints don't prove anyone outside the family was there. A small "kids" print could also be a small woman, yes?

    Second, the blood sock. Everyone seems to think this points to innocent, but it almost proves guilt to me. If someone had just attacked three people with a knife and the three victims were as bloody as evidence says, why isn't Darlie's blood found on the sock? Just the two boys blood there and Darlie's DNA inside the sock. This points to a timeline where:

    Darlie kills the boys (likely a post-partem incident - who knows).
    walks through the house and drops the knife
    picks up the sock or is wearing the sock with blood and needs to dispose of this evidence - does so down the street (it's after midnight, most people are asleep and wouldn't necessarily see her wandering about)
    returns and stages the screen (maybe even pushes herself through to make it look legit)
    performs self-inflicted wounds now (this is why her blood is not on the sock)
    starts her 911 act.

    Easy peasy. Timeline is unknown so definitely some time to commit this.

    My humble $0.02. Keep up the good work.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you for the post Matt - making good sense my friend. Cheers Nic

    Thank you for the post Matt - making good sense my friend.
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Kim you are right - we didn't bring up the suicide note. This case was huge we could have easily done 4 episodes on it and we did 2 that both went over an hour. It's difficult to cram everything in sometimes. That is why we typically do about 2 hours on each case so we don't have to leave anything out. The suicide note was interesting and something to consider but the people that knew her best all seemed to agree that she had bounced back to her normal self. More so you bring up a wonderful point - why didn't she ask Darin if he was okay, why didn't she ask about Drake. You present some damn good questions. Thanks Nic

    Hi Kim you are right - we didn't bring up the suicide note. This case was huge we could have easily done 4 episodes on it and we did 2 that both went over an hour. It's difficult to cram everything in sometimes. That is why we typically do about 2 hours on each case so we don't have to leave anything out. The suicide note was interesting and something to consider but the people that knew her best all seemed to agree that she had bounced back to her normal self.
    More so you bring up a wonderful point - why didn't she ask Darin if he was okay, why didn't she ask about Drake. You present some damn good questions.
    Thanks Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Heather The insurance actually makes a lot of sense to me. There was a high policy on Darin because owned a business and made all of the money for the family. It would be strange to have high policies on children. There was a fairly sizable policy on Darlie too - that is why if one of the parents did it or was involved for money that angle just doesn't work for me. They would have killed the other parent if it were for money. The money troubles are again difficult as were a lot of points in this case. This point again goes to who you ask. The prosecutor says they were having financial trouble but Darin testified that after a couple of slow months at his business things had picked up and they were almost on track to make what they did the year before. Cheers and thanks for posting. Nic

    @ Heather
    The insurance actually makes a lot of sense to me. There was a high policy on Darin because owned a business and made all of the money for the family. It would be strange to have high policies on children. There was a fairly sizable policy on Darlie too - that is why if one of the parents did it or was involved for money that angle just doesn't work for me. They would have killed the other parent if it were for money. The money troubles are again difficult as were a lot of points in this case. This point again goes to who you ask. The prosecutor says they were having financial trouble but Darin testified that after a couple of slow months at his business things had picked up and they were almost on track to make what they did the year before.
    Cheers and thanks for posting.
    Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Todd and Lisa, While I can appreciate someone's passion for a case and their opinion. I find it incredibly bizarre that anyone would want someone to rot in hell for having a different opinion. At the end of the day, it is just my opinion and my opinion only at the time of our recording session. This I stated clearly during the show. I'm not letting Darlie off of death row or out of prison. I'm just stating my opinion as I saw it after reviewing the case for a couple of weeks. Did I get it wrong, maybe but come on let's try to keep it sophisticated. I am glad that you have a different opinion. I appreciate that you shared it here with all of us. I wish you both the best. Cheers Nic

    @ Todd and Lisa,
    While I can appreciate someone's passion for a case and their opinion. I find it incredibly bizarre that anyone would want someone to rot in hell for having a different opinion. At the end of the day, it is just my opinion and my opinion only at the time of our recording session. This I stated clearly during the show. I'm not letting Darlie off of death row or out of prison. I'm just stating my opinion as I saw it after reviewing the case for a couple of weeks. Did I get it wrong, maybe but come on let's try to keep it sophisticated.
    I am glad that you have a different opinion. I appreciate that you shared it here with all of us. I wish you both the best.
    Cheers Nic

  • McKenzie
    McKenzie Vincennes, Indiana
    I don't think it's possible she did it in the time frame. I've always been really frustrated with this case. Also, I'm glad you mentioned Julie Rea and Joel Kirkpatrick. I'm pretty familiar with that case, my husband is actually from Lawrence Co, Illinois and we live just across the bridge in Indiana. This does sound really similar to what happened to them that night. That's could be a good show too! There's a bunch of a**holes that live here that are still convinced Julie is guilty.

    I don't think it's possible she did it in the time frame. I've always been really frustrated with this case.

    Also, I'm glad you mentioned Julie Rea and Joel Kirkpatrick. I'm pretty familiar with that case, my husband is actually from Lawrence Co, Illinois and we live just across the bridge in Indiana.
    This does sound really similar to what happened to them that night.

    That's could be a good show too! There's a bunch of a**holes that live here that are still convinced Julie is guilty.

  • Gen
    Gen SC
    I just can't believe there was an intruder. There is no way an intruder could've committed those crimes and then left the house Without leaving bloody footprints somewhere. Also, I'm surprised that more mention isn't made of the sister that spend the evening with them. What are her thoughts? What was her relationship like with Darin and Darlie?

    I just can't believe there was an intruder. There is no way an intruder could've committed those crimes and then left the house Without leaving bloody footprints somewhere.
    Also, I'm surprised that more mention isn't made of the sister that spend the evening with them. What are her thoughts? What was her relationship like with Darin and Darlie?

  • Gen
    Gen SC
    About an intruder entering through the cut screen, there were layers of dust undisturbed. So it is highly doubtful that anyone entered through that window.

    About an intruder entering through the cut screen, there were layers of dust undisturbed. So it is highly doubtful that anyone entered through that window.

  • Oregon Buckeye
    Oregon Buckeye Purgatorio
    Hey guys-- I've long been of the opinion that Darlie is guilty, however you're managing to maybe poke a few holes in my certainty. (Nick's explaining the limited time frame available for the set-up is pretty, pretty good as well as the throat injury.) That being said, I've also wondered why the husband seems to skate free of almost all suspicion. If she didn't do it, he is the next most likely suspect and his story has always been sketchy. While you were reading his official police statement, I was struck by the two (I think?) times he admits to leaving the house/scene of the crime to go wandering across the street and also down the street. This could explain how the sock ended up where it did, either intentionally or unintentionally.

    Hey guys--

    I've long been of the opinion that Darlie is guilty, however you're managing to maybe poke a few holes in my certainty. (Nick's explaining the limited time frame available for the set-up is pretty, pretty good as well as the throat injury.) That being said, I've also wondered why the husband seems to skate free of almost all suspicion. If she didn't do it, he is the next most likely suspect and his story has always been sketchy. While you were reading his official police statement, I was struck by the two (I think?) times he admits to leaving the house/scene of the crime to go wandering across the street and also down the street. This could explain how the sock ended up where it did, either intentionally or unintentionally.

  • Moose
    Moose Canada
    The T shaped cut in the screen gets me. If someone was going to stage a break in I feel it is more likely they would put a single downward slash like you see in every crime show.

    The T shaped cut in the screen gets me. If someone was going to stage a break in I feel it is more likely they would put a single downward slash like you see in every crime show.

  • Adrien
    Adrien Canada
    Hi guys, love the show and the research you guys are doing on each case is astounding. On this case, I kept going back and forth regarding her being guilty or not, so I went down the rabbit hole a bit and looked into the case a little more. Someone on reddit made a very detailed and well explained post listing all the evidences against Darlie, and the most damning one to me was the fact that the analysis of the knife used in the attack contained some residue of the window screen that was cut off in the T shape. I know you guys try to cover the most of the case, but if that detail is in fact true, this along with the blood spatters on her shoulder indicating a knife being waved up and down during an attack, are the most damming pieces of evidence against Darlie in my opinion. Filicide really is fascinating in a horrible way. Cheers.

    Hi guys, love the show and the research you guys are doing on each case is astounding.
    On this case, I kept going back and forth regarding her being guilty or not, so I went down the rabbit hole a bit and looked into the case a little more.
    Someone on reddit made a very detailed and well explained post listing all the evidences against Darlie, and the most damning one to me was the fact that the analysis of the knife used in the attack contained some residue of the window screen that was cut off in the T shape. I know you guys try to cover the most of the case, but if that detail is in fact true, this along with the blood spatters on her shoulder indicating a knife being waved up and down during an attack, are the most damming pieces of evidence against Darlie in my opinion.
    Filicide really is fascinating in a horrible way.
    Cheers.

  • Kimberli
    Kimberli D/FW
    Nic, while I cannot speak for Lisa and Todd, I think they are saying for Darlie to rot in hell, not you. I think she is guilty, but I also think it was not proven beyond reasonable doubt.

    Nic, while I cannot speak for Lisa and Todd, I think they are saying for Darlie to rot in hell, not you.

    I think she is guilty, but I also think it was not proven beyond reasonable doubt.

  • Chris
    Chris Scotland
    No point in name calling or insults, totally agree. However, having listened to most of your shows, which tend to be very balanced, this one it seemed you were intent on presenting her as innocent. Not guilty just doesn't add up.

    No point in name calling or insults, totally agree.
    However, having listened to most of your shows, which tend to be very balanced, this one it seemed you were intent on presenting her as innocent. Not guilty just doesn't add up.

  •  Jordan
    Jordan
    Great job as always guys! one of the highlights of my week is getting a new TCG episode in my feed. As someone who has been working in a hospital during a pandemic for the past year and a half, I just want you guys to know how much of an impact you make. Listening to your podcast is often the only time all day I take for myself. Keep on keeping on! You guys rock and hope you stay active for years to come :) Re: Darlie--always have leaned more toward the side of innocent but folks here bring up some great points I hadn't thought of. Either way, there is enough reasonable doubt along with her seemingly ineffective defense counsel for her to get a new trial or at least have her sentence reduced to life in prison. I shudder to think of how many people have been executed that were innocent simply due to ineffective counsel or unfair biases of the time/situation.

    Great job as always guys! one of the highlights of my week is getting a new TCG episode in my feed. As someone who has been working in a hospital during a pandemic for the past year and a half, I just want you guys to know how much of an impact you make. Listening to your podcast is often the only time all day I take for myself. Keep on keeping on! You guys rock and hope you stay active for years to come smile

    Re: Darlie--always have leaned more toward the side of innocent but folks here bring up some great points I hadn't thought of. Either way, there is enough reasonable doubt along with her seemingly ineffective defense counsel for her to get a new trial or at least have her sentence reduced to life in prison. I shudder to think of how many people have been executed that were innocent simply due to ineffective counsel or unfair biases of the time/situation.

  • Luciana S
    Luciana S
    Thank you for both playing the 911 call, as well as reading the transcript from the call. It helped to understand everything better.

    Thank you for both playing the 911 call, as well as reading the transcript from the call. It helped to understand everything better.

  • Lilly
    Lilly New Orleans
    Hey! Met you guys at Crime Con in Nola - it was awesome! I’m the one who really wanted The Captain to show up for a drinking contest with Bob Ruff (ps I’ll sponsor a rematch anytime 🤗) Anyway. Thanks for doing Darlie’s case. I wanted to comment on the whole “someone did this intentionally - nothing has been touched” thing in her 911 call. To me, that sounds like someone trying to make sense of what is happening in front of them. Trying to find a motive. So her thought process is like: “why did this happen? Was someone trying to rob us and the boys interrupted them?No! Nothing has been touched. We haven’t been robbed! Someone came in here to intentionally kill my kids!” That’s all. Love you guys. Thanks for all that you do 💕

    Hey! Met you guys at Crime Con in Nola - it was awesome! I’m the one who really wanted The Captain to show up for a drinking contest with Bob Ruff (ps I’ll sponsor a rematch anytime 🤗)

    Anyway. Thanks for doing Darlie’s case. I wanted to comment on the whole “someone did this intentionally - nothing has been touched” thing in her 911 call.
    To me, that sounds like someone trying to make sense of what is happening in front of them. Trying to find a motive. So her thought process is like: “why did this happen? Was someone trying to rob us and the boys interrupted them?No! Nothing has been touched. We haven’t been robbed! Someone came in here to intentionally kill my kids!”
    That’s all. Love you guys. Thanks for all that you do 💕

  • Mel
    Mel Parts unknown
    Wow, what a story! In my part of the world, you are not allowed to drive a vehicle or sign any kind of legal documentation within 24 hours of a general anesthetic. I am astounded her post surgery interview was admitted in any court. As far as a motive- if mum and two older kids were "out of the way", is there anyone who may have been watching dad? A baby wouldnt remember its mother- but the bigger boys would. Could the person have been interested in dad, rather than the mother? Mum surviving would have thrown a big spanner in the works, especially as dad supported his wife. As far a birthday party for the lost little boys at their graves, it is probably more common than many people realise (thankfully- most people dont experience such loss these days). As you made clear, the recording was edited to present a particular point of view, rather than an overview of a family coming to terms with an enormously tragic loss

    Wow, what a story!
    In my part of the world, you are not allowed to drive a vehicle or sign any kind of legal documentation within 24 hours of a general anesthetic. I am astounded her post surgery interview was admitted in any court.
    As far as a motive- if mum and two older kids were "out of the way", is there anyone who may have been watching dad? A baby wouldnt remember its mother- but the bigger boys would. Could the person have been interested in dad, rather than the mother? Mum surviving would have thrown a big spanner in the works, especially as dad supported his wife.
    As far a birthday party for the lost little boys at their graves, it is probably more common than many people realise (thankfully- most people dont experience such loss these days). As you made clear, the recording was edited to present a particular point of view, rather than an overview of a family coming to terms with an enormously tragic loss

  • Renea
    Renea TX
    I reside in the Dfw area of Texas and lived in Garland at the time, (very close to the area). I feel so sorry for those poor boys and I have always thought she was GUILTY, nothing else makes since to me. But I respect everyone's opinion.

    I reside in the Dfw area of Texas and lived in Garland at the time, (very close to the area). I feel so sorry for those poor boys and I have always thought she was GUILTY, nothing else makes since to me. But I respect everyone's opinion.

  • Barb Holliday
    Barb Holliday
    I lived in Dallas when this happened and until 2018. We pronounce the Row like “Cow”— not “Role” in Rowlett, y’all. The sock could have been grabbed on the way in to gag the victim during attack. I also agree with other moms that jolting awake when your new baby stirs or not being able to get good sleep when baby awakes in night is legit. She was obviously in shock during the 911 call - whether she did it or not & it’s pretty sketchy for prosecutor or defense to leverage that call for guilt or innocence. If I sat on jury trial for child murder - it would be hard to consider the state of mind of the mother minutes after murder or even a few days… as reliable evidence.

    I lived in Dallas when this happened and until 2018. We pronounce the Row like “Cow”— not “Role” in Rowlett, y’all.

    The sock could have been grabbed on the way in to gag the victim during attack. I also agree with other moms that jolting awake when your new baby stirs or not being able to get good sleep when baby awakes in night is legit.
    She was obviously in shock during the 911 call - whether she did it or not & it’s pretty sketchy for prosecutor or defense to leverage that call for guilt or innocence. If I sat on jury trial for child murder - it would be hard to consider the state of mind of the mother minutes after murder or even a few days… as reliable evidence.

  • Carla Hufstedler
    Carla Hufstedler There Might Be Cupcakes Podcast
    With regards to the gravesite party: my little brother died when I was nine and he was seven. Darlie was smiling, chomping gum, spraying Silly String all over her sons’ graves, and having a good time. It’s been 40 years and my mom still can’t even visit my brother’s grave. My dad, when we lived nearby, used to take holiday wreaths to Eric’s grave and clean it off. Mom couldn’t go with him, ever. Even when we went to church, she couldn’t go near the cemetery, because it was too painful to see where he was buried. When my mom saw that video, she actually became sick to her stomach. She saw both parts, and said it did not matter that she cried afterwards, saying she may have been triggered to cry because her mother cried. Perspective from a family who have lost a child, since the Captain mentioned it.

    With regards to the gravesite party: my little brother died when I was nine and he was seven. Darlie was smiling, chomping gum, spraying Silly String all over her sons’ graves, and having a good time. It’s been 40 years and my mom still can’t even visit my brother’s grave. My dad, when we lived nearby, used to take holiday wreaths to Eric’s grave and clean it off. Mom couldn’t go with him, ever. Even when we went to church, she couldn’t go near the cemetery, because it was too painful to see where he was buried. When my mom saw that video, she actually became sick to her stomach. She saw both parts, and said it did not matter that she cried afterwards, saying she may have been triggered to cry because her mother cried.
    Perspective from a family who have lost a child, since the Captain mentioned it.

  • Crizzabell
    Crizzabell Canada
    I usually love your eps, but this one was just way too biased. So much evidence that really goes into her guilt was either glossed over or not mentioned at all. Her guilt is pretty clear to me. That stupid silly string video does not factor in for me at all in thinking her guilty. It's the evidence. NO evidence of any intruder. No footprints, not even dust disturbed. I would be 100% comfortable finding her guilty if I was on the jury.

    I usually love your eps, but this one was just way too biased. So much evidence that really goes into her guilt was either glossed over or not mentioned at all. Her guilt is pretty clear to me. That stupid silly string video does not factor in for me at all in thinking her guilty. It's the evidence. NO evidence of any intruder. No footprints, not even dust disturbed. I would be 100% comfortable finding her guilty if I was on the jury.

  • tom
    tom adelaide, aus
    Thought you might find this breakdown of the evidence against Darlie interesting... ref - http://www.darlieroutierfactandfiction.com/circumstantial-evidence/ let’s review the evidence in Darlie’s case. 1. Unusual concern about fingerprints on the knife as her boys lay dying. 2. No blood or scuff marks on the backyard fence or gate. The gate was closed when police arrived, even though it was difficult to open and close. 3. Enough blood on the door leading to the garage that it dripped down the door, but no blood on or around the exit window in the garage. 4. Screen debris on the bread knife from the Routier’s kitchen. 5. No evidence whatsoever of a knife being dropped on the utility room floor. 6. The bloody knife imprint on the carpet near Devon and the heavy trail indicating a fresh supply of Darlie’s blood being fed to it. 7. The wine glass that somehow was knocked to the floor, despite testimony that it couldn’t have happened with a bump, jostle, or tip of the wine rack. 8. No cuts on Darlie’s feet, despite her claim of running through the kitchen numerous times, and at least twice in the dark. 9. The murder weapon was a knife from her own home. 10. Very minor displacement of furniture in the family room, indicative of a clumsy attempt to stage the crime scene. 11. Her claim of having placed a towel on Damon’s back is directly contradicted by the first responders. 12. Darlie’s conflicting stories to various police officers, hospital employees, friends, and family members about what happened that night. 13. Although Darlie later claimed to have no memory of the attack and only a vague memory of the intruder leaving, she wrote people from jail while awaiting trial claiming, “I know who did it…I saw him!” 14. Darlie’s claim that five-year-old Damon, after being stabbed in the liver and lungs, was walking and speaking to her for some time after the intruder left. 15. Blood being washed and wiped away in and around the sink area. 16. No blood on the section of the couch where Darlie said her head was resting. 17. No cast-off blood in the family room or kitchen; just smudges or round drops indicating slow movement through the area. 18. Bruises on right arm which didn’t show up until more than 4 days after the murders. No blunt-trauma bruises anywhere else on her face or body. 19. Darlie clearly saying on the 911 call that “I was fighting!” and then changing it to “I was frightening” at trial. (This switcheroo coincided with her traumatic amnesia claim). 20. The boys’ cast-off blood on the shoulder and back of her nightshirt. 21. Darlie’s superficial wounds were drastically different from her sons’ deep, penetrating stab wounds. 22. The overturned vacuum cleaner in the kitchen, with broken glass and Darlie’s bloody footprints underneath. 23. Four cuts in Darlie’s nightshirt with no corresponding injuries. 24. Darin’s accounts being constantly expanded to explain his wife’s suspicious and contradictory statements. 25. Darlie’s suicide note written a month prior to the murders. 26. Financial problems so severe that their house was on the verge of foreclosure, and Darin’s application for a $5,000 vacation loan was turned down the day before the murders. 27. The complete lack of any evidence that someone else was in that house during the time of the murders. 28. The whole idea of a stranger walking through the pitch-black garage without bloodying anything, tripping over anything, disturbing the windowsill dust, or transferring blood inside and outside the garage. 29. Animal bowls outside, a large animal cage partly blocking the garage window – all strong deterrents for an intruder. 30. A vicious cat who, when approached, would hiss and flail around in his cage just a few feet from the couch. 31. Expensive jewelry and Darlie’s purse, in plain sight on the kitchen counter, were not taken. 32. The idea of an intruder stabbing two little boys to death for absolutely no reason, and leaving the adult who can identify him alive and armed with a knife

    Thought you might find this breakdown of the evidence against Darlie interesting...
    ref - http://www.darlieroutierfactandfiction.com/circumstantial-evidence/
    let’s review the evidence in Darlie’s case.
    1. Unusual concern about fingerprints on the knife as her boys lay dying.
    2. No blood or scuff marks on the backyard fence or gate. The gate was closed when police arrived, even though it was difficult to open and close.
    3. Enough blood on the door leading to the garage that it dripped down the door, but no blood on or around the exit window in the garage.
    4. Screen debris on the bread knife from the Routier’s kitchen.
    5. No evidence whatsoever of a knife being dropped on the utility room floor.
    6. The bloody knife imprint on the carpet near Devon and the heavy trail indicating a fresh supply of Darlie’s blood being fed to it.
    7. The wine glass that somehow was knocked to the floor, despite testimony that it couldn’t have happened with a bump, jostle, or tip of the wine rack.
    8. No cuts on Darlie’s feet, despite her claim of running through the kitchen numerous times, and at least twice in the dark.
    9. The murder weapon was a knife from her own home.
    10. Very minor displacement of furniture in the family room, indicative of a clumsy attempt to stage the crime scene.
    11. Her claim of having placed a towel on Damon’s back is directly contradicted by the first responders.
    12. Darlie’s conflicting stories to various police officers, hospital employees, friends, and family members about what happened that night.
    13. Although Darlie later claimed to have no memory of the attack and only a vague memory of the intruder leaving, she wrote people from jail while awaiting trial claiming, “I know who did it…I saw him!”
    14. Darlie’s claim that five-year-old Damon, after being stabbed in the liver and lungs, was walking and speaking to her for some time after the intruder left.
    15. Blood being washed and wiped away in and around the sink area.
    16. No blood on the section of the couch where Darlie said her head was resting.
    17. No cast-off blood in the family room or kitchen; just smudges or round drops indicating slow movement through the area.
    18. Bruises on right arm which didn’t show up until more than 4 days after the murders. No blunt-trauma bruises anywhere else on her face or body.
    19. Darlie clearly saying on the 911 call that “I was fighting!” and then changing it to “I was frightening” at trial. (This switcheroo coincided with her traumatic amnesia claim).
    20. The boys’ cast-off blood on the shoulder and back of her nightshirt.
    21. Darlie’s superficial wounds were drastically different from her sons’ deep, penetrating stab wounds.
    22. The overturned vacuum cleaner in the kitchen, with broken glass and Darlie’s bloody footprints underneath.
    23. Four cuts in Darlie’s nightshirt with no corresponding injuries.
    24. Darin’s accounts being constantly expanded to explain his wife’s suspicious and contradictory statements.
    25. Darlie’s suicide note written a month prior to the murders.
    26. Financial problems so severe that their house was on the verge of foreclosure, and Darin’s application for a $5,000 vacation loan was turned down the day before the murders.
    27. The complete lack of any evidence that someone else was in that house during the time of the murders.
    28. The whole idea of a stranger walking through the pitch-black garage without bloodying anything, tripping over anything, disturbing the windowsill dust, or transferring blood inside and outside the garage.
    29. Animal bowls outside, a large animal cage partly blocking the garage window – all strong deterrents for an intruder.
    30. A vicious cat who, when approached, would hiss and flail around in his cage just a few feet from the couch.
    31. Expensive jewelry and Darlie’s purse, in plain sight on the kitchen counter, were not taken.
    32. The idea of an intruder stabbing two little boys to death for absolutely no reason, and leaving the adult who can identify him alive and armed with a knife

  • Kit Krause
    Kit Krause Minnesota
    Any possibility Tommy Lynn Sells may have been in the area at the time? Quite a few similarities there.

    Any possibility Tommy Lynn Sells may have been in the area at the time? Quite a few similarities there.

  • Linda
    Linda Cortland, Ohio
    I think if she had a better defense team, she may have gotten off.

    I think if she had a better defense team, she may have gotten off.

  • Bambi
    Bambi Brisbane, Aus
    She used the sock to cover her hand so there were no fingerprints on the knife she used to kill her kids. Then, after moving the knife a few times, perhaps she accidentally touched the knife, picked it up or whatever (maybe she realised one child was still breathing and tried to finish the job under panic). She or the husband then removed the sock from the property. Can't leave it on the property right? That would be too suspicious. I bet she assumed it wouldn't be found but had moved it just up the road put of panic. Also for anyone who breaks into a house to rape and murder someone (let's assume they didn't break in to steal), who ends up murdering two kids and attacking a woman, would surely finish the job right? Why kill the children and let her live. It just doesn't make sense. I believe she had post natal depression and that is the motive. She don't want want to sleep in the same room as her new child.

    She used the sock to cover her hand so there were no fingerprints on the knife she used to kill her kids. Then, after moving the knife a few times, perhaps she accidentally touched the knife, picked it up or whatever (maybe she realised one child was still breathing and tried to finish the job under panic). She or the husband then removed the sock from the property. Can't leave it on the property right? That would be too suspicious. I bet she assumed it wouldn't be found but had moved it just up the road put of panic.
    Also for anyone who breaks into a house to rape and murder someone (let's assume they didn't break in to steal), who ends up murdering two kids and attacking a woman, would surely finish the job right? Why kill the children and let her live. It just doesn't make sense.
    I believe she had post natal depression and that is the motive. She don't want want to sleep in the same room as her new child.

  • Steph
    Steph Finland
    If the marriage was good and husband so sure of her innocence, why divorce her and not fight for her freedom. Was the husband ever a looked into ...

    If the marriage was good and husband so sure of her innocence, why divorce her and not fight for her freedom. Was the husband ever a looked into ...

  • Angela
    Angela Cleveland
    There is a 'Forensic Files' episode about this case. In it they discuss an analysis of Darlie's 9-1-1 call in which they determined that she was walking around the house (not where she said she was) during the 9-1-1 call. You guys didn't even discuss that. Good episodes though.

    There is a 'Forensic Files' episode about this case. In it they discuss an analysis of Darlie's 9-1-1 call in which they determined that she was walking around the house (not where she said she was) during the 9-1-1 call. You guys didn't even discuss that. Good episodes though.

  • Jean
    Jean San Francisco, CA
    Hey guys just wanted to let you know I am having trouble accessing the podcast with NordVPN

    Hey guys just wanted to let you know I am having trouble accessing the podcast with NordVPN

  • Kate
    Kate BC, Canada
    About her being woken up by her baby but not by an intruder, I can believe that. When my kid was a newborn, any tiny noise she made would wake me up, but I slept though a massive tree in my yard falling down. There’s something about being having a baby that makes you hyper aware of them.

    About her being woken up by her baby but not by an intruder, I can believe that. When my kid was a newborn, any tiny noise she made would wake me up, but I slept though a massive tree in my yard falling down. There’s something about being having a baby that makes you hyper aware of them.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Bambi - you bring up some interesting points and issues with her being innocent. This is a tough one that is for sure. It's cases like this that make me terrified of jury duty. Cheers Nic

    @ Bambi - you bring up some interesting points and issues with her being innocent. This is a tough one that is for sure. It's cases like this that make me terrified of jury duty.
    Cheers Nic

  • Carley Wright
    Carley Wright
    I worked at a paternity lab in Dallas in the fall of 1997, but I couldn't remember the name. My brain lit up when you said GeneScreen on the first episode, that was it! They had a section that was forensics, and I thought that was SO COOL. Thank you for the flashback!

    I worked at a paternity lab in Dallas in the fall of 1997, but I couldn't remember the name. My brain lit up when you said GeneScreen on the first episode, that was it! They had a section that was forensics, and I thought that was SO COOL. Thank you for the flashback!

  • Kyle
    Kyle Texas
    I am always surprised when people think she is not guilty and was disappointed the episode was so lazily one-sided. You introduction mentions 450 children / year are killed by their parents, but you question motive? Who does not have a motive is a random intruder. Not to mention the overwhelming evidence against her and zero evidence pointing to an intruder. Adding to that her story continually changes and is concurrently inconsistent and incoherent.

    I am always surprised when people think she is not guilty and was disappointed the episode was so lazily one-sided. You introduction mentions 450 children / year are killed by their parents, but you question motive? Who does not have a motive is a random intruder. Not to mention the overwhelming evidence against her and zero evidence pointing to an intruder. Adding to that her story continually changes and is concurrently inconsistent and incoherent.

  • SuziBeth
    SuziBeth
    This has nothing to do with anything, but even in my second listening of these episodes, this same little thing struck me as so funny I had to keep rewinding what came after because I couldn't stop giggling; I don't know why. Maybe his voice and the cadence in which he speaks: Captain (as 911 operator): "what?"

    This has nothing to do with anything, but even in my second listening of these episodes, this same little thing struck me as so funny I had to keep rewinding what came after because I couldn't stop giggling; I don't know why. Maybe his voice and the cadence in which he speaks:
    Captain (as 911 operator): "what?"

  • Dave
    Dave Niagara Falls
    Hi guys Great job as always. Big fan of your work. I remember this case being plastered all over the news when it happened. The comment about the juror saying if he would have seen the whole video he wouldn’t have voted to convict. That short clip of the silly string video was all they showed about the case at the time. This leads to this theory I’ve had for awhile . It’s about trials in general. So you have the judge, lawyers, multiple experts the crime scene techs and detectives all trained professionals in their specific area of expertise. Then you have 12 average Joe’s deciding someone’s fate. Doesn’t make sense to me. I realize this practice goes back to the dawn of time. I think it’s time to have professional jurors. People who are properly trained to examine cases. But that would make sense and I know we can’t have that.

    Hi guys
    Great job as always. Big fan of your work. I remember this case being plastered all over the news when it happened. The comment about the juror saying if he would have seen the whole video he wouldn’t have voted to convict. That short clip of the silly string video was all they showed about the case at the time. This leads to this theory I’ve had for awhile . It’s about trials in general. So you have the judge, lawyers, multiple experts the crime scene techs and detectives all trained professionals in their specific area of expertise. Then you have 12 average Joe’s deciding someone’s fate. Doesn’t make sense to me. I realize this practice goes back to the dawn of time. I think it’s time to have professional jurors. People who are properly trained to examine cases. But that would make sense and I know we can’t have that.

  • Krissy
    Krissy Big Apple
    OMG she totally is innocent. What a tragedy. Thanks guys for shedding light on this injustice. She lacked means, motive, or opportunity. Zero evidence she did it as you guys showed!

    OMG she totally is innocent. What a tragedy. Thanks guys for shedding light on this injustice. She lacked means, motive, or opportunity. Zero evidence she did it as you guys showed!

  • JOHN
    JOHN PA
    Anyone who believes Darlie Routier is innocent should never be allowed on a jury. She is as guilty as hell. If one thinks she is innocent one must also think Ted Bundy was innocent.

    Anyone who believes Darlie Routier is innocent should never be allowed on a jury. She is as guilty as hell. If one thinks she is innocent one must also think Ted Bundy was innocent.

  • JOHN
    JOHN PA
    Please answer this. Have you guys actually read the entire trial? It is online. All the appellate documents? The police reports? She is as guilty as hell. She will get the needle hopefully soon. Although she should be stabbed in her sleep. The evievidence is overwhelming. The 911 call was the most staged one I ever heard. The bread knife alone is enough to say she is guilty. Everything else is icing. Have you R3ALLY studied the case. During the 911 call she did nothing to show compassion to her kids. Her story changed multiple times. She killed those little boys. She cut the screen.

    Please answer this. Have you guys actually read the entire trial? It is online. All the appellate documents? The police reports? She is as guilty as hell. She will get the needle hopefully soon. Although she should be stabbed in her sleep. The evievidence is overwhelming. The 911 call was the most staged one I ever heard. The bread knife alone is enough to say she is guilty. Everything else is icing. Have you R3ALLY studied the case. During the 911 call she did nothing to show compassion to her kids. Her story changed multiple times. She killed those little boys. She cut the screen.

  • JOHN
    JOHN PA
    Duh she called 911 before Damon dies because she was bleeding a lot and was scared for herself which is all sh ever cared about.

    Duh she called 911 before Damon dies because she was bleeding a lot and was scared for herself which is all sh ever cared about.

  • John
    John PA
    Actually Darlie asked Darin for a divorce that night and he called her bluff. She was mad as hell. Murderous PIG

    Actually Darlie asked Darin for a divorce that night and he called her bluff. She was mad as hell. Murderous PIG

  • Nicole
    Nicole Valpo, IN
    I always wondered if Routier committed the murders without knowing she did; not necessarily sleep-walking but how some diabetics can experience episodes of delirium and psychosis that is directly related to issues with blood sugar. She was post-partum and I figured that played heavily into events without her realizing. The media always gave the impression the family was financially struggling middle-class, and although they were living beyond their means at the time, I didn't realize just how much an intruder made sense until I saw pics of their house and cars. When I saw just how big and impressive their house was, all of a sudden it made a lot more sense to me why someone would break in. This occurred right at that point in the 90s when mommy murderers and daycare sex abuse rings were getting a lot of attention and it became a type of 24-hour-news witch hunt; it led to many false accusations and it's stunning how this case ended up with a death penalty with no real motive or evidence it was her- seems like it was entirely emotions over evidence.

    I always wondered if Routier committed the murders without knowing she did; not necessarily sleep-walking but how some diabetics can experience episodes of delirium and psychosis that is directly related to issues with blood sugar. She was post-partum and I figured that played heavily into events without her realizing. The media always gave the impression the family was financially struggling middle-class, and although they were living beyond their means at the time, I didn't realize just how much an intruder made sense until I saw pics of their house and cars. When I saw just how big and impressive their house was, all of a sudden it made a lot more sense to me why someone would break in. This occurred right at that point in the 90s when mommy murderers and daycare sex abuse rings were getting a lot of attention and it became a type of 24-hour-news witch hunt; it led to many false accusations and it's stunning how this case ended up with a death penalty with no real motive or evidence it was her- seems like it was entirely emotions over evidence.

  • JOHN
    JOHN PA
    Who cares if the scratch on her neck was 2 mms from her Carotid. Darlie barely made it through high school. She had no idea what a carotid artery was much less exactly where it was. Her boo boos were far from "nasty'. They were a joke. Look at the photos of Devon and Damon. Those were real wounds from someone who meant to kill them.

    Who cares if the scratch on her neck was 2 mms from her Carotid. Darlie barely made it through high school. She had no idea what a carotid artery was much less exactly where it was. Her boo boos were far from "nasty'. They were a joke. Look at the photos of Devon and Damon. Those were real wounds from someone who meant to kill them.

  • Maddy
    Maddy Colorado
    About the sleeping situation, when you are sleeping with your baby near by some moms subconsciously listen for baby movement all night. My husband and I would take turns sleeping in the room with our youngest daughter and I slept like a comatose bear while away from our baby, but I hardly slept at all while sleeping in the same room. This is not uncommon! It seems to me, if her postpartum depression caused her to kill it’s odd to kill older children and not the baby. I think she would have been very sophisticated to pull this off, especially alone. The grave party actually doesn’t seem odd to me and if she were doing this for her children why would she cry at their party? Also, older children even if they are young are VERY helpful to have around when you have a baby. Her injuries look pretty gruesome to me. Beautiful women care about their looks and those wounds look like someone tried to kill her. I’m on team innocent. At the very least I can’t imagine that this passes the reasonable doubt test.

    About the sleeping situation, when you are sleeping with your baby near by some moms subconsciously listen for baby movement all night. My husband and I would take turns sleeping in the room with our youngest daughter and I slept like a comatose bear while away from our baby, but I hardly slept at all while sleeping in the same room. This is not uncommon! It seems to me, if her postpartum depression caused her to kill it’s odd to kill older children and not the baby. I think she would have been very sophisticated to pull this off, especially alone. The grave party actually doesn’t seem odd to me and if she were doing this for her children why would she cry at their party? Also, older children even if they are young are VERY helpful to have around when you have a baby. Her injuries look pretty gruesome to me. Beautiful women care about their looks and those wounds look like someone tried to kill her. I’m on team innocent. At the very least I can’t imagine that this passes the reasonable doubt test.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous USA
    "Officer Waddell, to the best of your knowledge, was Mr Rudier wearing pants when you entered the home?" One thing that i find really out of character for parents who believed that a home intruder had just butchered 2 of their children is Darlie and Darin 's complete lack of attention given to the safety of the one child still alive (ie Drake / Baby). It's hard to know how one would respond in such a chaotic situation, but as a parent, I am fairly certain that if i awoke to seeing 2 of my 3 children bleeding to death on the floor, my first 2 instincts would be #1a) keep the 2 injured children in front of me alive; and #1b) make sure my 3rd child/baby upstairs is alive and unharmed. Conversely, if you as parent are the killer, then you know you don't have to worry about your baby (upstairs) because the person who committed the act (downstairs) is yourself (ie no intruder). -On the 911 call, Darlie never once mentions Drake (she is more concerned about her fingerprints being on the knife than she is about the welfare of her baby). -Per Darin's initial statement - https://darliefacts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/darin-statement-june-8-transcribed-final1.pdf , he wakes up to Darlie screaming, puts his glasses on (because he "can't see 2 feet" in front him) and immediately runs down the stairs to administer CPR to Damon and Devon. Darin says that once officers arrived on the scene, he went upstairs to put on pants and check on Drake, and then he went across the street to the Neals. But his testimony differs. He says he put on his pants and glasses immediately after hearing Darlie's screams and then ran down the stairs (note: no mention of him checking the baby/crib). When the prosecution asks for clarification, he confirms his pants were on already. "2 Q. Over the recess, I was reading through your statement. Did you put in your statement, initially, is there something in there that after the police got there, you went upstairs and put your pants on? A. No, sir, I had my pants on." https://darliefacts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/61_darin-routier-2.pdf (p34) -Per Darlie's statement - https://darliefacts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/darlie-statement-june-8-96.pdf , Darin goes up to check on Baby Drake while medics are working on Darlie (even if true, still odd that this didnt happen sooner) and then Darin gives Drake to redacted (presumably Karen Neal). But that sequence of events doesn't match with any of the witness statements statements (eg Darin, Karen Neal, Waddell, etc). So to recap, both parents claim to have been asleep when Devon & Damon are stabbed > wake up to a chaotic scene of 2 of their sons dying in front of them > don't check to see if the "intruder" hadn't also stabbed their third child (during this time period when parents had been asleep). Darlie and Darin both seem to realize after the fact that checking to see if their 3rd child was still alive/unharmed would have been normal behavior for parents whose home had just been invaded by an unknown, murderous assailant so they put it in their statements but them doing this doesn't synch with any of the eyewitness reports or even their own testimony. Tangential aside, Darin talks about Drake in such a disconnected way: During his Day 1 testimony, the word "Drake" is referenced 16 times. 13 times by counsel, 3 times by Darin. The word "baby" is referenced 26 times. 5 times by counsel, 21 times by Darin. Example: 1 A. Terry and Karen Neal brought the baby 2 up. She kept asking for him and wanting to see him, so 3 they brought him up there. 4 And, we brought the baby into the 5 room, and we kind of lifted it up on top of Darlie. Of 6 course, she was -- I don't know if y'all have seen the 7 pictures, but, I mean, she was full of tubes, and she had 8 this great big, huge, white thing on her neck, and all of 9 these gauzes and everything, all over her. And the baby 10 automatically wanted to go for her neck, and we were all 11 kind of afraid that the baby would hurt her wounds, 12 because she wasn't -- you know, she wasn't capable of 13 being able to hold him and use her arm strength to be 14 able to hold him. He squirms really a lot. 15 Q. Did she ultimately hold the baby on 16 her chest? 17 A. Yes, she held him by his fingers. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. She wanted all of the pictures out of 20 the house that she could get of the boys. And when she 21 did, we thought that was a good idea, and then when we 22 got them to her, she just fell apart. 23 She just would go into hysterics

    "Officer Waddell, to the best of your knowledge, was Mr Rudier wearing pants when you entered the home?"

    One thing that i find really out of character for parents who believed that a home intruder had just butchered 2 of their children is Darlie and Darin 's complete lack of attention given to the safety of the one child still alive (ie Drake / Baby).

    It's hard to know how one would respond in such a chaotic situation, but as a parent, I am fairly certain that if i awoke to seeing 2 of my 3 children bleeding to death on the floor, my first 2 instincts would be #1a) keep the 2 injured children in front of me alive; and #1b) make sure my 3rd child/baby upstairs is alive and unharmed. Conversely, if you as parent are the killer, then you know you don't have to worry about your baby (upstairs) because the person who committed the act (downstairs) is yourself (ie no intruder).

    -On the 911 call, Darlie never once mentions Drake (she is more concerned about her fingerprints being on the knife than she is about the welfare of her baby).

    -Per Darin's initial statement - https://darliefacts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/darin-statement-june-8-transcribed-final1.pdf , he wakes up to Darlie screaming, puts his glasses on (because he "can't see 2 feet" in front him) and immediately runs down the stairs to administer CPR to Damon and Devon. Darin says that once officers arrived on the scene, he went upstairs to put on pants and check on Drake, and then he went across the street to the Neals. But his testimony differs. He says he put on his pants and glasses immediately after hearing Darlie's screams and then ran down the stairs (note: no mention of him checking the baby/crib). When the prosecution asks for clarification, he confirms his pants were on already. "2 Q. Over the recess, I was reading through your statement. Did you put in your statement, initially, is there something in there that after the police got there, you went upstairs and put your pants on? A. No, sir, I had my pants on." https://darliefacts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/61_darin-routier-2.pdf (p34)

    -Per Darlie's statement - https://darliefacts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/darlie-statement-june-8-96.pdf , Darin goes up to check on Baby Drake while medics are working on Darlie (even if true, still odd that this didnt happen sooner) and then Darin gives Drake to redacted (presumably Karen Neal). But that sequence of events doesn't match with any of the witness statements statements (eg Darin, Karen Neal, Waddell, etc).

    So to recap, both parents claim to have been asleep when Devon & Damon are stabbed > wake up to a chaotic scene of 2 of their sons dying in front of them > don't check to see if the "intruder" hadn't also stabbed their third child (during this time period when parents had been asleep). Darlie and Darin both seem to realize after the fact that checking to see if their 3rd child was still alive/unharmed would have been normal behavior for parents whose home had just been invaded by an unknown, murderous assailant so they put it in their statements but them doing this doesn't synch with any of the eyewitness reports or even their own testimony.

    Tangential aside, Darin talks about Drake in such a disconnected way:
    During his Day 1 testimony, the word "Drake" is referenced 16 times. 13 times by counsel, 3 times by Darin. The word "baby" is referenced 26 times. 5 times by counsel, 21 times by Darin.
    Example:
    1 A. Terry and Karen Neal brought the baby
    2 up. She kept asking for him and wanting to see him, so
    3 they brought him up there.
    4 And, we brought the baby into the
    5 room, and we kind of lifted it up on top of Darlie. Of
    6 course, she was -- I don't know if y'all have seen the
    7 pictures, but, I mean, she was full of tubes, and she had
    8 this great big, huge, white thing on her neck, and all of
    9 these gauzes and everything, all over her. And the baby
    10 automatically wanted to go for her neck, and we were all
    11 kind of afraid that the baby would hurt her wounds,
    12 because she wasn't -- you know, she wasn't capable of
    13 being able to hold him and use her arm strength to be
    14 able to hold him. He squirms really a lot.
    15 Q. Did she ultimately hold the baby on
    16 her chest?
    17 A. Yes, she held him by his fingers.
    18 Q. Okay.
    19 A. She wanted all of the pictures out of
    20 the house that she could get of the boys. And when she
    21 did, we thought that was a good idea, and then when we
    22 got them to her, she just fell apart.
    23 She just would go into hysterics

  • Big Don
    Big Don Midwest
    ..there is more of a motive for DR committing the crime than another motive--she was suicidal/etc ....she didn't kill the husband or little one because she is '''crazy''/despondent/etc = she started it but did not finish it

    ..there is more of a motive for DR committing the crime than another motive--she was suicidal/etc ....she didn't kill the husband or little one because she is '''crazy''/despondent/etc = she started it but did not finish it

  • Big Don
    Big Don Midwest
    ..I don't think there is enough evidence to have convicted her, but I think she did it .....the killer doesn't kill her--but!! = the killer only stabs her??!!?...she doesn't wake up with this ''''''stuff'''' going on??!! ..... ...how come these people don't have their deadbolts locked? ..and, thanks for the podcasts--they are professionally done ..there's not much foul language/etc

    ..I don't think there is enough evidence to have convicted her, but I think she did it .....the killer doesn't kill her--but!! = the killer only stabs her??!!?...she doesn't wake up with this ''''''stuff'''' going on??!! .....
    ...how come these people don't have their deadbolts locked?
    ..and, thanks for the podcasts--they are professionally done ..there's not much foul language/etc

  • Big Don
    Big Don Midwest
    ..allow me to explain a little more.....yes, she's been injured and one stab wound is a very close call--but -that's because she is suicidal/''crazy'' -''out of her mind'' ...she didn't or could't go through with the suicide.....

    ..allow me to explain a little more.....yes, she's been injured and one stab wound is a very close call--but -that's because she is suicidal/''crazy'' -''out of her mind'' ...she didn't or could't go through with the suicide.....

  • Becca
    Becca NC
    I have no clue about this case. I also know nothing about being a mother. But #1 I’ve heard that if your baby starts crying/needing attention in any way you might have a mommy instinct to wake up and take care of the baby. Hormone stuff. So maybe it was easier for her to stay with the older boys. #2 This is a question. Is there a door that exits the garage into the outside? They said no one left from the window. But I have seen very few garages that don’t have an exit other than the car garage doors. I haven’t heard anything about this. Whether there was one, if it was unlocked, nothing. #3 If some sadistic rapist looked through the window and just saw a woman. Would he not be so mad at the fact that there were kids when he got in there? It could have just been a rape fantasy and when that got ruined he got so mad he wanted to kill everyone. I can see someone just stabbing the boys, because they wouldn’t want to really see what happened to them. That wasn’t the target. But then trying to slit the woman’s throat because that was his target and he could deal with an adult having a ghastly wound.

    I have no clue about this case. I also know nothing about being a mother. But #1 I’ve heard that if your baby starts crying/needing attention in any way you might have a mommy instinct to wake up and take care of the baby. Hormone stuff. So maybe it was easier for her to stay with the older boys. #2 This is a question. Is there a door that exits the garage into the outside? They said no one left from the window. But I have seen very few garages that don’t have an exit other than the car garage doors. I haven’t heard anything about this. Whether there was one, if it was unlocked, nothing. #3 If some sadistic rapist looked through the window and just saw a woman. Would he not be so mad at the fact that there were kids when he got in there? It could have just been a rape fantasy and when that got ruined he got so mad he wanted to kill everyone. I can see someone just stabbing the boys, because they wouldn’t want to really see what happened to them. That wasn’t the target. But then trying to slit the woman’s throat because that was his target and he could deal with an adult having a ghastly wound.

  • JSo
    JSo Ohio
    Based on the 911 tape played, she never once mentioned or even asked her husband if the infant was ok or alive or if he would go check on him. Seems to me, she knew the baby was fine because she was the one that did the deed. Guilty! Team Nic

    Based on the 911 tape played, she never once mentioned or even asked her husband if the infant was ok or alive or if he would go check on him. Seems to me, she knew the baby was fine because she was the one that did the deed. Guilty!
    Team Nic

  • Cathy
    Cathy Boston
    Lots of evidence left out of this one which point to her guilt. There was a forensic files episode that goes into her bloody footprints and how there was much evidence of blood clean up around the house. The blood evidence all points to one person and blood never lies (MacDonald case). Wish you had included more of this evidence in the show.

    Lots of evidence left out of this one which point to her guilt. There was a forensic files episode that goes into her bloody footprints and how there was much evidence of blood clean up around the house. The blood evidence all points to one person and blood never lies (MacDonald case). Wish you had included more of this evidence in the show.

  • Alyssa
    Alyssa Illinois
    I was obsessed with this case for the longest time because I feel this lady got so screwed. I had read that the crime scene wasn’t preserved properly due to EMT services coming in to the home in the mind set to perform life saving measures, not to preserve a crime scene. Her defense team failed her in so many ways. And even if it was a case of post-partum psychosis prison isn’t what she needed she needed mental health treatment. I had also read her underwear was missing, I never seen anywhere that a rape kit was done. A family annihilator wouldn’t have just picked some of the family to murder they would have done away with them all. I just feel there is more to this story and a women is sitting in jail for the rest of her life as her youngest is growing up without their mama who could very well be innocent. They deserve to have better closure than how this trial went down.

    I was obsessed with this case for the longest time because I feel this lady got so screwed. I had read that the crime scene wasn’t preserved properly due to EMT services coming in to the home in the mind set to perform life saving measures, not to preserve a crime scene. Her defense team failed her in so many ways. And even if it was a case of post-partum psychosis prison isn’t what she needed she needed mental health treatment. I had also read her underwear was missing, I never seen anywhere that a rape kit was done. A family annihilator wouldn’t have just picked some of the family to murder they would have done away with them all. I just feel there is more to this story and a women is sitting in jail for the rest of her life as her youngest is growing up without their mama who could very well be innocent. They deserve to have better closure than how this trial went down.

  • Nicole
    Nicole Cleveland OH
    Completely unrelated to the case, but you mentioned the Lululemon case and that was the first episode of yours I listened to - it got me completely hooked!

    Completely unrelated to the case, but you mentioned the Lululemon case and that was the first episode of yours I listened to - it got me completely hooked!

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Parts Unk
    To think that this lady is innocent, you really have to do some crazy logical gymnastics. You have to believe that these kids were randomly killed by the worlds stealthiest intruder. He leaves no DNA, he leaves no hairs, no fibers, no foot prints, and he isn’t seen by anyone coming or going. in spite of engaging in a vicious set of stabbings, he doesn’t cut himself and leaves no blood. This intruder has no motive, enters the house by using a bread knife that is already in the house to cut the screen from the outside, goes into the house and finds the murder weapon in the dark. He then is able to stab to death two children without waking up their mother who is right beside them, a mother who is sleeping downstairs because the infant wakes her up because she’s a light sleeper. He’s so stealthy that he’s able to cut the arms and throat of the woman without her even waking up. He also just happens to change his approach when it comes to Darley, instead of stabbing her in the chest or back as he did the kids, he suddenly decides he’s going to make a superficial cut across her throat and make some cuts to her arm. He certainly seemed intend on finishing off the boys, but seem to take an awfully light touch when it came to their mother. He leaves the house and vanishes. No car. No one sees him. The woman can’t even describe him. It’s all pretty unlikely. What’s more likely is that this lady had a postpartum depression, and she decided to kill her two boys and then kill her self. When it came to it, she tried to cut her throat but chickened out, and than begin covering her tracks. I think the jury got this one right.

    To think that this lady is innocent, you really have to do some crazy logical gymnastics. You have to believe that these kids were randomly killed by the worlds stealthiest intruder. He leaves no DNA, he leaves no hairs, no fibers, no foot prints, and he isn’t seen by anyone coming or going. in spite of engaging in a vicious set of stabbings, he doesn’t cut himself and leaves no blood. This intruder has no motive, enters the house by using a bread knife that is already in the house to cut the screen from the outside, goes into the house and finds the murder weapon in the dark. He then is able to stab to death two children without waking up their mother who is right beside them, a mother who is sleeping downstairs because the infant wakes her up because she’s a light sleeper. He’s so stealthy that he’s able to cut the arms and throat of the woman without her even waking up. He also just happens to change his approach when it comes to Darley, instead of stabbing her in the chest or back as he did the kids, he suddenly decides he’s going to make a superficial cut across her throat and make some cuts to her arm. He certainly seemed intend on finishing off the boys, but seem to take an awfully light touch when it came to their mother. He leaves the house and vanishes. No car. No one sees him. The woman can’t even describe him. It’s all pretty unlikely.

    What’s more likely is that this lady had a postpartum depression, and she decided to kill her two boys and then kill her self. When it came to it, she tried to cut her throat but chickened out, and than begin covering her tracks. I think the jury got this one right.

  • Sean
    Sean Fort Worth
    I love you guys and listen to you daily but I have to disagree on this case. I also felt like you were bias in this case and left out a few things. First off you stated that you felt like the sock was evidence in Darlie's favor. Darlie's DNA was found in the toe of the sock because she often wore Darren's socks to bed. There was blood DROPLETS from both boys found on the sock. Darlie was cut pretty severely so why was her blood not on the sock? This is the most damaging because it shows that she stabbed the boys while wearing socks and got their blood on the sock. Then she proceeded to clean up the crime scene and disposed of the sock down the alley either as a setup that someone ran that way or maybe she was able to get rid of the other sock but this one got left behind. Every report I have read stated that the screen was cut from the inside and that the knife with screen fibers was inside the house. I think that is the key to all of this and if it was proven that the screen was cut from the inside then we know it was someone in the house. Also you completely glazed over the washing up at the sink part. There was definitely cleanup done. What mother wakes up and sees her boys hurt and chases the attacker outside instead of calling 911? She also did not provide any emergency care to them until Darren came downstairs and that was to throw a towel on one of the boys. I believe your main point was how would she have time to do cleanup since the coroner stated that one of the boys injuries would have killed him within minutes but yet he was still alive when paramedics arrived. I believe she stabbed both boys and then went about trying to clean up the scene and set up an attacker theory. That includes ditching the sock, cutting the screen and washing up at the sink. When she realized one of the boys was still alive I believe she may have stabbed him again and then cut herself and started screaming for Darren. She says he came down with no glasses on and the report states he had his glasses on. So many discrepancies in her story. You did not mention the automated security lights. The lights are alerted to movement and once on they stay on for 14 minutes I believe. So why were they off when the police arrived? She stated she chased the attacker out of the house and then went back and called 911. The police were there in minutes. Also, why would she chase down the intruder and then pick up the knife? If an intruder broke in and did all this I would have immediately called 911 to get them for medical and to chase down the intruder. She did all sorts of things while her children were dying. Who does that?? You also spoke of motive. Darlie could have numerous motives. Go read the autopsy statements on what the contents of the boys stomach was. Did they not eat dinner that night? And why not? I think her and Darren were arguing over money and she wanted to hurt him by killing the boys and then herself. That is why the cut was so severe. There were life insurance policies lying out in front of the fireplace in living room??? She may have just wanted to kill the boys to hurt Darren and then set it up as an intruder. Regardless she has much more motive then the attacker. But what motive did the attacker have? He did not steal anything. No sexual assault occurred. She stated that she was awakened by one of the boys. That means the attacker could have subdued her easily but yet he did nothing but stab the boys then cut her and flee? I do not believe Darren had anything to do with this but he was in love with her almost to the point of obsession. He knew she did it but he did not want his only surviving son to know his mom as a killer. I believe once Darlie is executed, he may talk more but at this point he only incriminates himself if he starts talking about what really happened. I think its very easy to cloud all the evidence by blaming it on the crime scene techs and I was disappointed to hear you say that you felt like they may have messed up more than just the vacuum cleaner. I know its not admissable but I wonder if a lie detector test was ever done on Darren and Darlie? Anyone know?

    I love you guys and listen to you daily but I have to disagree on this case. I also felt like you were bias in this case and left out a few things. First off you stated that you felt like the sock was evidence in Darlie's favor. Darlie's DNA was found in the toe of the sock because she often wore Darren's socks to bed. There was blood DROPLETS from both boys found on the sock. Darlie was cut pretty severely so why was her blood not on the sock? This is the most damaging because it shows that she stabbed the boys while wearing socks and got their blood on the sock. Then she proceeded to clean up the crime scene and disposed of the sock down the alley either as a setup that someone ran that way or maybe she was able to get rid of the other sock but this one got left behind.
    Every report I have read stated that the screen was cut from the inside and that the knife with screen fibers was inside the house. I think that is the key to all of this and if it was proven that the screen was cut from the inside then we know it was someone in the house. Also you completely glazed over the washing up at the sink part. There was definitely cleanup done. What mother wakes up and sees her boys hurt and chases the attacker outside instead of calling 911? She also did not provide any emergency care to them until Darren came downstairs and that was to throw a towel on one of the boys. I believe your main point was how would she have time to do cleanup since the coroner stated that one of the boys injuries would have killed him within minutes but yet he was still alive when paramedics arrived. I believe she stabbed both boys and then went about trying to clean up the scene and set up an attacker theory. That includes ditching the sock, cutting the screen and washing up at the sink. When she realized one of the boys was still alive I believe she may have stabbed him again and then cut herself and started screaming for Darren. She says he came down with no glasses on and the report states he had his glasses on. So many discrepancies in her story. You did not mention the automated security lights. The lights are alerted to movement and once on they stay on for 14 minutes I believe. So why were they off when the police arrived? She stated she chased the attacker out of the house and then went back and called 911. The police were there in minutes. Also, why would she chase down the intruder and then pick up the knife? If an intruder broke in and did all this I would have immediately called 911 to get them for medical and to chase down the intruder. She did all sorts of things while her children were dying. Who does that??
    You also spoke of motive. Darlie could have numerous motives. Go read the autopsy statements on what the contents of the boys stomach was. Did they not eat dinner that night? And why not? I think her and Darren were arguing over money and she wanted to hurt him by killing the boys and then herself. That is why the cut was so severe. There were life insurance policies lying out in front of the fireplace in living room??? She may have just wanted to kill the boys to hurt Darren and then set it up as an intruder. Regardless she has much more motive then the attacker. But what motive did the attacker have? He did not steal anything. No sexual assault occurred. She stated that she was awakened by one of the boys. That means the attacker could have subdued her easily but yet he did nothing but stab the boys then cut her and flee?
    I do not believe Darren had anything to do with this but he was in love with her almost to the point of obsession. He knew she did it but he did not want his only surviving son to know his mom as a killer. I believe once Darlie is executed, he may talk more but at this point he only incriminates himself if he starts talking about what really happened.
    I think its very easy to cloud all the evidence by blaming it on the crime scene techs and I was disappointed to hear you say that you felt like they may have messed up more than just the vacuum cleaner.
    I know its not admissable but I wonder if a lie detector test was ever done on Darren and Darlie? Anyone know?

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