Jason Corbett /// 391 /// 392

37 comments

  • Slatts McCracker
    Slatts McCracker Sydney
    If the bedroom door was one which swings open or shut when left alone then it would have been in that position when the photo was taken. Therefore, the door was manually opened or closed during the attack.

    If the bedroom door was one which swings open or shut when left alone then it would have been in that position when the photo was taken.

    Therefore, the door was manually opened or closed during the attack.

  • Mary Ellen
    Mary Ellen Birmingham, AL
    Hey guys! I'm a forensic toxicologist, and I just wanted to clarify your question about ethanol (drinking alcohol) concentrations in Jason's blood. When you die, ethanol and other drugs stop metabolizing. If his blood ethanol concentration was 0.02 g/100 mL (comparable to 0.08 g/100 mL which is the per se law in all states), that is what the concentration was at the time of death. The delay in specimen collection would not have an effect unless he had begun to decompose significantly, which can sometimes cause an INCREASE in ethanol in the blood. Since this is a low level and he had been drinking all day, this is likely the blood concentration at the time of the incident. I'm assuming that once his body was removed from the scene it was stored in a morgue until autopsy, which would severely slow the decomposition of the body. The Captain is correct. When you combine a central nervous system depressant (benzodiazepines like Xanax or valium, pain killers like Lortab or oxycontin, sleep aids like ambien) with ethanol, it has an additive effect. A person would be lethargic and sleepy; they would have lowered inhibitions, lowered cognitive function, etc. Taking multiple CNS depressants can be very dangerous. Having looked at the toxicology report, I don't know whether he was still feeling the effects or not. The trazodone level was so low it could only be detected, not quantified, and the level of ethanol is equal to about two drinks in a big guy like that. However, he was likely eliminating the ethanol and not absorbing it anymore, so it wouldn't have been as inhibiting as it was when he was still absorbing the ethanol. What I like to do is think about times when I have been drinking and how I feel when I'm done drinking and a few hours have passed. Personally, I'm crazy sleepy. But that's not everyone's experience, so it's hard to say in this case whether he was feeling any effects of the drugs in his system. Cases like this are hard to evaluate toxicologically because there's no clear cut answer. Yes he took impairing substances, but was he feeling them anymore? Maybe, maybe not. Anyway, that's my two cents. Love the show! :-)

    Hey guys!

    I'm a forensic toxicologist, and I just wanted to clarify your question about ethanol (drinking alcohol) concentrations in Jason's blood. When you die, ethanol and other drugs stop metabolizing. If his blood ethanol concentration was 0.02 g/100 mL (comparable to 0.08 g/100 mL which is the per se law in all states), that is what the concentration was at the time of death. The delay in specimen collection would not have an effect unless he had begun to decompose significantly, which can sometimes cause an INCREASE in ethanol in the blood. Since this is a low level and he had been drinking all day, this is likely the blood concentration at the time of the incident. I'm assuming that once his body was removed from the scene it was stored in a morgue until autopsy, which would severely slow the decomposition of the body.

    The Captain is correct. When you combine a central nervous system depressant (benzodiazepines like Xanax or valium, pain killers like Lortab or oxycontin, sleep aids like ambien) with ethanol, it has an additive effect. A person would be lethargic and sleepy; they would have lowered inhibitions, lowered cognitive function, etc. Taking multiple CNS depressants can be very dangerous. Having looked at the toxicology report, I don't know whether he was still feeling the effects or not. The trazodone level was so low it could only be detected, not quantified, and the level of ethanol is equal to about two drinks in a big guy like that. However, he was likely eliminating the ethanol and not absorbing it anymore, so it wouldn't have been as inhibiting as it was when he was still absorbing the ethanol. What I like to do is think about times when I have been drinking and how I feel when I'm done drinking and a few hours have passed. Personally, I'm crazy sleepy. But that's not everyone's experience, so it's hard to say in this case whether he was feeling any effects of the drugs in his system. Cases like this are hard to evaluate toxicologically because there's no clear cut answer. Yes he took impairing substances, but was he feeling them anymore? Maybe, maybe not.

    Anyway, that's my two cents. Love the show! :-)

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Thank you Mary - this is exactly what we were looking for. Thanks for the help - Cheers! Nic

    Thank you Mary - this is exactly what we were looking for. Thanks for the help - Cheers!
    Nic

  • Rachel
    Rachel O-H-I-O
    Hey guys.. Another great show :) I cam here to say that while I usually find myself agreeing with you quite frequently Nic, this time I disagreed with your conclusion. That's not what i cam here to say, because its totally cool to disagree, I love alternative perspectives. But I wanted to just say that I have unfortunately known a few abusers in my time, male and female., different walks of life in every way. The one thing these abusers have in common is that they call their victims liars, and go out of the way to project their bad behavior on the victims. It's a way to manipulate and deflect. I bring this up because if someone is abusive, of course you are going to hear two different stories from the parties involved and they will almost always be polar opposites, with both accusing the other of the same exact behavior. The only difference is, one person is telling the truth, and the other is just trying to confuse the situation, get by standers to cut the difference down the middle by assuming it's all just a matter of he said/she said and walk away without helping the victim. Then the abuser has accomplished exactly what they wanted. So I get a little triggered when people say the truth is probably somewhere in the middle simply because the two sides disagree. I find it extremely interesting that she wanted custody of children that weren't even biologically hers with no clear financial motive. Maybe the story is exactly what they said, and she is a good person who couldn't in good conscience leave children behind with an abusive parent. So she wanted custody, and in the meantime, his violence went too far at the wrong moment and her dad was finally there to help. I once watched the police drag my dad down my porch and across my walkway because he refused to leave when my abusive husband would not let him in and would not let me come to the door. My dad thought I was inside getting hurt (he wasnt wrong) and he wanted to kill my ex husband. You don't mess with a girl when her daddy is around. Maybe this case is that simple.

    Hey guys.. Another great show smile I cam here to say that while I usually find myself agreeing with you quite frequently Nic, this time I disagreed with your conclusion. That's not what i cam here to say, because its totally cool to disagree, I love alternative perspectives. But I wanted to just say that I have unfortunately known a few abusers in my time, male and female., different walks of life in every way. The one thing these abusers have in common is that they call their victims liars, and go out of the way to project their bad behavior on the victims. It's a way to manipulate and deflect. I bring this up because if someone is abusive, of course you are going to hear two different stories from the parties involved and they will almost always be polar opposites, with both accusing the other of the same exact behavior. The only difference is, one person is telling the truth, and the other is just trying to confuse the situation, get by standers to cut the difference down the middle by assuming it's all just a matter of he said/she said and walk away without helping the victim. Then the abuser has accomplished exactly what they wanted. So I get a little triggered when people say the truth is probably somewhere in the middle simply because the two sides disagree. I find it extremely interesting that she wanted custody of children that weren't even biologically hers with no clear financial motive. Maybe the story is exactly what they said, and she is a good person who couldn't in good conscience leave children behind with an abusive parent. So she wanted custody, and in the meantime, his violence went too far at the wrong moment and her dad was finally there to help. I once watched the police drag my dad down my porch and across my walkway because he refused to leave when my abusive husband would not let him in and would not let me come to the door. My dad thought I was inside getting hurt (he wasnt wrong) and he wanted to kill my ex husband. You don't mess with a girl when her daddy is around. Maybe this case is that simple.

  • JosieD
    JosieD Borden, Indiana
    The word you couldn't make out in Molly's statement is "clearly". "I do not remember clearly after that. " She runs her letters together.

    The word you couldn't make out in Molly's statement is "clearly".

    "I do not remember clearly after that. " She runs her letters together.

  • Cathy
    Cathy Virginia
    I've only listened to the first episode in this case, but it already sounds super sketch. The previous two posters already pointed out some obvious things. But here's another... as the mother of two (previously young) kids, there was never, ever a time i stored "craft" things for the next day on my night stand. In the kitchen, in the garage, in the backyard, in the family room/living room, but not on my night stand. Why???? super sketch. No bruising on her throat? I've seen enough Live PD to know marks = arrest, no marks = no arrest (ie, it didn't happen). Maybe that's simplified, but that's what the cops that see this stuff every day do. There should have been marks--super sketch. Then there is daddy FBI guy isn't strong enough to roll the dead guy over but he's scrappy enough to put him on the floor? He must have been awfully good with the hand to hand fighting training. baseball bat or no--also super sketch. He's either wimpy or he isn't. Finally, and daddy would know this too, once the attacker is incapacitated and/or you can get away, self defense stops being "self defense" and becomes "murder" if you keep attacking. The blood stains alone = murder. Maybe this started out more or less the way daddy said and he walked in on his little baby killing her husband. It sure as hell didn't go down the way those two say.

    I've only listened to the first episode in this case, but it already sounds super sketch. The previous two posters already pointed out some obvious things. But here's another... as the mother of two (previously young) kids, there was never, ever a time i stored "craft" things for the next day on my night stand. In the kitchen, in the garage, in the backyard, in the family room/living room, but not on my night stand. Why???? super sketch. No bruising on her throat? I've seen enough Live PD to know marks = arrest, no marks = no arrest (ie, it didn't happen). Maybe that's simplified, but that's what the cops that see this stuff every day do. There should have been marks--super sketch. Then there is daddy FBI guy isn't strong enough to roll the dead guy over but he's scrappy enough to put him on the floor? He must have been awfully good with the hand to hand fighting training. baseball bat or no--also super sketch. He's either wimpy or he isn't. Finally, and daddy would know this too, once the attacker is incapacitated and/or you can get away, self defense stops being "self defense" and becomes "murder" if you keep attacking. The blood stains alone = murder. Maybe this started out more or less the way daddy said and he walked in on his little baby killing her husband. It sure as hell didn't go down the way those two say.

  • Salla
    Salla Finland
    Could have been self defence made to look like homicide by an overly eager FBI -dad. Maybe by trying to make sure they won't be wrongfully suspected he altered parts of the story making it textbook self defence but at the same time too convenient sounding and not matching the evidence anymore. Thanks for a great podcast! Four out of five bottle caps. Five out of five if you'll stop saying 'had went' cos why treat your beautiful language like that?

    Could have been self defence made to look like homicide by an overly eager FBI -dad. Maybe by trying to make sure they won't be wrongfully suspected he altered parts of the story making it textbook self defence but at the same time too convenient sounding and not matching the evidence anymore.

    Thanks for a great podcast! Four out of five bottle caps. Five out of five if you'll stop saying 'had went' cos why treat your beautiful language like that?

  • Sarah
    Sarah Carmel by the Sea
    the bottom line for me on this is, there was obvious reasonable doubt. I can't believe the jury found these folks guilty. great jog by you guys, as always!

    the bottom line for me on this is, there was obvious reasonable doubt. I can't believe the jury found these folks guilty. great jog by you guys, as always!

  • Mark
    Mark Portland
    You guys don’t know what you’re talking about. How about you learn about cases before you start your uneducated conjecturing. Molly is hugely personality disordered and her father an arrogant murdering creep. I really dislike uninformed crap like you dish out. Try listening to Murder Squad.

    You guys don’t know what you’re talking about. How about you learn about cases before you start your uneducated conjecturing. Molly is hugely personality disordered and her father an arrogant murdering creep. I really dislike uninformed crap like you dish out. Try listening to Murder Squad.

  • Amy
    Amy KCMO
    great show once again! im listening to Part 1 now.. as for blood on both sides of the door.. i wonder if dad just closed the door behind him when he went into the bedroom because the kid was asleep? sometime its just a habit to close doors behind you when you enter a room.. at a previous law firm i was in charge of analyzing photos of a similar attack on a woman in her apartment. there was BLOOD EVERYWHERE and sometimes it just wasnt really clear how it got there. blood goes everywhere like water. you just never know

    great show once again! im listening to Part 1 now.. as for blood on both sides of the door.. i wonder if dad just closed the door behind him when he went into the bedroom because the kid was asleep? sometime its just a habit to close doors behind you when you enter a room..

    at a previous law firm i was in charge of analyzing photos of a similar attack on a woman in her apartment. there was BLOOD EVERYWHERE and sometimes it just wasnt really clear how it got there. blood goes everywhere like water. you just never know

  • Stina johnson
    Stina johnson Minnesota
    I feel like she sounds like someone that could have had narcissistic or personality issues... I think he did plan on taking “her” kids away from her, and she lost her mind...... The police photo of her covered in blood, in her pajamas but wearing a FULL LENGTH FUR COAT; that’s absolutely crazy inappropriate. Like, there was nothing easier wearing accessible to grab on the way out the door?

    I feel like she sounds like someone that could have had narcissistic or personality issues... I think he did plan on taking “her” kids away from her, and she lost her mind...... The police photo of her covered in blood, in her pajamas but wearing a FULL LENGTH FUR COAT; that’s absolutely crazy inappropriate. Like, there was nothing easier wearing accessible to grab on the way out the door?

  • Carlos
    Carlos Indiana
    I read the appellate opinion. My top takeaway: The trial court made a BIG mistake by including a jury instruction on the "aggressor doctrine," a qualification of the law of self defense that NC apparently follows. In short, a defendant can't claim self-defense if s/he was the initial aggressor. At the trial, Tom's testimony indicated that JASON was the aggressor. In fact, the State produced NOTHING on its own to show that Tom was the aggressor. Instead, it relied on the theory that somehow Tom "became the aggressor" after Jason took the bat away from him (Tom didn't retreat from the fight at that point). The appellate court held that Tom had no duty to leave his daughter to her fate and instead found that "[a]ll of the evidence supports that Jason was the initial aggressor in the affray, and the first person who used deadly force." I may be wrong, but -- without a jury instruction on the "aggressor doctrine" at a retrial -- I think a jury will have a harder time convicting Tom & Molly.

    I read the appellate opinion. My top takeaway: The trial court made a BIG mistake by including a jury instruction on the "aggressor doctrine," a qualification of the law of self defense that NC apparently follows. In short, a defendant can't claim self-defense if s/he was the initial aggressor.

    At the trial, Tom's testimony indicated that JASON was the aggressor. In fact, the State produced NOTHING on its own to show that Tom was the aggressor. Instead, it relied on the theory that somehow Tom "became the aggressor" after Jason took the bat away from him (Tom didn't retreat from the fight at that point). The appellate court held that Tom had no duty to leave his daughter to her fate and instead found that "[a]ll of the evidence supports that Jason was the initial aggressor in the affray,
    and the first person who used deadly force."

    I may be wrong, but -- without a jury instruction on the "aggressor doctrine" at a retrial -- I think a jury will have a harder time convicting Tom & Molly.

  • Jenni
    Jenni Lexington
    I think the girl tried to kill him and then called daddy and made him think she was in danger and dad took over I think it was premeditated by her

    I think the girl tried to kill him and then called daddy and made him think she was in danger and dad took over I think it was premeditated by her

  • Christina
    Christina Waxhaw, NC
    Captain - Love the Three Amigos reference. Never gets old!

    Captain - Love the Three Amigos reference. Never gets old!

  • Kim
    Kim Parts unknown
    Very interesting episode! I do have one question and I apologize if you covered it and I missed it, but did the police or social workers or anyone confirm with the child if she did in fact wake up during the night and if Molly did go into her room? Isnt that what she claims started the altercation? Keep up the good work guys and stay healthy!

    Very interesting episode! I do have one question and I apologize if you covered it and I missed it, but did the police or social workers or anyone confirm with the child if she did in fact wake up during the night and if Molly did go into her room? Isnt that what she claims started the altercation?

    Keep up the good work guys and stay healthy!

  • Kathleen
    Kathleen SF
    Hi, In part 2 there’s an error about the Michael Peterson case. A family friend died in Germany similar to his second wife. His first wife is alive and appears in the documentary, The Staircase. In the film, she is actually supportive of him and doesn’t think he murdered Kathleen. Thx fir the great show.

    Hi,
    In part 2 there’s an error about the Michael Peterson case. A family friend died in Germany similar to his second wife. His first wife is alive and appears in the documentary, The Staircase. In the film, she is actually supportive of him and doesn’t think he murdered Kathleen.
    Thx fir the great show.

  • mG
    mG tX
    I have little doubt that this crime was premeditated, just not sure if the dad was involved in the original planning. Having a brick on the night stand, the wife's sleeping pills in his system, the blood spray. Her intention was to smash him in his sleep, motivated by the desire to get the kids and the life insurance policy. I think it is safe to say Jason and the kids were heading to Ireland and she was going to be out one family. My guess is the dad joined in after the husband was incapacitated and helped finish the job. I think he quickly deduced a plan and helped cover up what damage was done by the brick. I am pretty sure the 911 call was made after he passed, that is a common trick past killers have used, faking like they are trying to save the victim.. The father claimed he heard noises and instantly jumped up and grabbed an aluminum bat? Look, if I keep a bat under my bed at home for self-defense, I am going to instinctively grab that bat, I am conditioned to know it is there. But they had just arrived that night, I don't think he would have instinctively grabbed the present for his grandson, I think his instinct would be to run to that room. Moreover, the dad's wife never leaves the room or calls for help? That is because a story is harder to keep with three than two. Too many things, like the brick on the nigh stand, strain credibility.

    I have little doubt that this crime was premeditated, just not sure if the dad was involved in the original planning. Having a brick on the night stand, the wife's sleeping pills in his system, the blood spray. Her intention was to smash him in his sleep, motivated by the desire to get the kids and the life insurance policy. I think it is safe to say Jason and the kids were heading to Ireland and she was going to be out one family. My guess is the dad joined in after the husband was incapacitated and helped finish the job. I think he quickly deduced a plan and helped cover up what damage was done by the brick. I am pretty sure the 911 call was made after he passed, that is a common trick past killers have used, faking like they are trying to save the victim.. The father claimed he heard noises and instantly jumped up and grabbed an aluminum bat? Look, if I keep a bat under my bed at home for self-defense, I am going to instinctively grab that bat, I am conditioned to know it is there. But they had just arrived that night, I don't think he would have instinctively grabbed the present for his grandson, I think his instinct would be to run to that room. Moreover, the dad's wife never leaves the room or calls for help? That is because a story is harder to keep with three than two. Too many things, like the brick on the nigh stand, strain credibility.

  • Susan
    Susan Lancaster, SC
    Great podcast as always, guys. Basically for me it boils down to is that at some point it stopped being self defense and became murder with that many blows to the head. Period. I don’t believe the daughter at all, but I’m not 100% convinced that the father intended for that to happen. It’s all pretty sketchy though.

    Great podcast as always, guys. Basically for me it boils down to is that at some point it stopped being self defense and became murder with that many blows to the head. Period. I don’t believe the daughter at all, but I’m not 100% convinced that the father intended for that to happen. It’s all pretty sketchy though.

  • Kelsey
    Kelsey Not Dirty - Jersey
    I am very happy to see this case was covered here in the garage. I have always found this case, along with cases like Jon Bennett, Christopher Lee Watts, and the Susan Cox Powell cases to be some of the most interesting to me personally. I am only through episode one so far, but I will gladly admit that I smiled big when you discussed the door and the vacuum as they have always been items that bothered me. From a very quick first glance, I would have almost thought from the markings that it looked like they attempted to vacuum the rug, getting blood on the inside of the canister. However, after studying it always irked me the direction the blood is dripping on the canister, much suggesting it was lying down, or at least not in this original position. Perhaps EMS moved it--which would be tragic to alter a scene as this. The blood splatter says so much about this case, far too low on the wall for this to have been repeated blows while the victim is still standing/fighting back. I have to say the other thing that always bothered me the MOST (and maybe you will cover this in episode two) but I can't get over how neither the father or daughter (in photographs) have blood on their hands or arms. If they called 911 and EMS rapidly after the incident in hopes of maybe saving his life after "defending themselves" and the 911 operator asks them to perform CPR until EMS arrive, someone in that house should have blood from the victims body on their hands from giving CPR....and if pictures are accurate and were taken before anyone got cleaned up, this isn't the case. You have a "cool body", potentially uninjured father and daughter, and no signs that they actually tried to resuscitate the victim. As well as a wife who apparently didn't see anything, and has no information to give. Extremely suspicious, but I digress until episode 2. Thank you both for covering this case! I have waited long to hear both of your thoughts on this case. Through stitcher app I have not seen the Susan Powell case covered yet...I hope that makes it into the lineup too! Cheers!

    I am very happy to see this case was covered here in the garage. I have always found this case, along with cases like Jon Bennett, Christopher Lee Watts, and the Susan Cox Powell cases to be some of the most interesting to me personally. I am only through episode one so far, but I will gladly admit that I smiled big when you discussed the door and the vacuum as they have always been items that bothered me. From a very quick first glance, I would have almost thought from the markings that it looked like they attempted to vacuum the rug, getting blood on the inside of the canister. However, after studying it always irked me the direction the blood is dripping on the canister, much suggesting it was lying down, or at least not in this original position. Perhaps EMS moved it--which would be tragic to alter a scene as this. The blood splatter says so much about this case, far too low on the wall for this to have been repeated blows while the victim is still standing/fighting back. I have to say the other thing that always bothered me the MOST (and maybe you will cover this in episode two) but I can't get over how neither the father or daughter (in photographs) have blood on their hands or arms. If they called 911 and EMS rapidly after the incident in hopes of maybe saving his life after "defending themselves" and the 911 operator asks them to perform CPR until EMS arrive, someone in that house should have blood from the victims body on their hands from giving CPR....and if pictures are accurate and were taken before anyone got cleaned up, this isn't the case. You have a "cool body", potentially uninjured father and daughter, and no signs that they actually tried to resuscitate the victim. As well as a wife who apparently didn't see anything, and has no information to give. Extremely suspicious, but I digress until episode 2. Thank you both for covering this case! I have waited long to hear both of your thoughts on this case. Through stitcher app I have not seen the Susan Powell case covered yet...I hope that makes it into the lineup too! Cheers!

  • Natalie
    Natalie London
    You both just dragged a mans good name thru the dirt..another bs pod from the clueless duo

    You both just dragged a mans good name thru the dirt..another bs pod from the clueless duo

  • Toby
    Toby Sweden
    Thanks for the podcast, Nic & Captain! I looked up some pictures of the crime scene, and what makes the least sense to me is that paving brick. Such an out-of-place object to keep in a bedroom, or indeed inside a house! It's just a crude piece of concrete, roughly trapezoidal in shape, and, frankly, I don't see how it could have been turned into something pretty even if Michelangelo had painted it! It's also a super weird choice of murder weapon -- clumsy and awkward to get a grip on, especially for a woman, and doesn't really have any swing to it! (If this was a premeditated crime, and Jason was attacked in his sleep, couldn't Molly have found herself a nice, heavy brass candlestick or something?)

    Thanks for the podcast, Nic & Captain!

    I looked up some pictures of the crime scene, and what makes the least sense to me is that paving brick. Such an out-of-place object to keep in a bedroom, or indeed inside a house! It's just a crude piece of concrete, roughly trapezoidal in shape, and, frankly, I don't see how it could have been turned into something pretty even if Michelangelo had painted it! It's also a super weird choice of murder weapon -- clumsy and awkward to get a grip on, especially for a woman, and doesn't really have any swing to it! (If this was a premeditated crime, and Jason was attacked in his sleep, couldn't Molly have found herself a nice, heavy brass candlestick or something?)

  • Katelyn Hayter
    Katelyn Hayter Springfield MO
    The vacuum was an interesting area for me to see that picture, the blood pattern on the floor to the right of the vacuum is the exact outline of the vacuum and would be consistent with it laying on its side during the "fight" and explain how the blood was going sideways, the door you can also see a "line" in the carpet that the door was about 3/4 closed during the attack due to heavier blood splatter on the inside and less on the outer side of the door This is a bloody scene and if life saving efforts had been made the father-in-law and wife should have had more blood on them. He claims to have touched his head during the 911 call, how did he not get covered? The cool to touch on a body post mortem and while naked can vary but is pretty evident around 15-20min after circulation has stopped, if CPR was attempted he should have had somewhat circulation to his core and EMS would have not noted that. Along with CPR there are some evident things that happen during this, cracking of the sternum during compressions, EMS would have noticed that when transferring care

    The vacuum was an interesting area for me to see that picture, the blood pattern on the floor to the right of the vacuum is the exact outline of the vacuum and would be consistent with it laying on its side during the "fight" and explain how the blood was going sideways, the door you can also see a "line" in the carpet that the door was about 3/4 closed during the attack due to heavier blood splatter on the inside and less on the outer side of the door
    This is a bloody scene and if life saving efforts had been made the father-in-law and wife should have had more blood on them. He claims to have touched his head during the 911 call, how did he not get covered?
    The cool to touch on a body post mortem and while naked can vary but is pretty evident around 15-20min after circulation has stopped, if CPR was attempted he should have had somewhat circulation to his core and EMS would have not noted that. Along with CPR there are some evident things that happen during this, cracking of the sternum during compressions, EMS would have noticed that when transferring care

  • Katherine
    Katherine St. Louis
    Here is the thing with the self defense portion of Tom's defense. Police offices you see very often shoot to defend until the the threat that is attacking is down for good. I have seen many police shooting videos where the person will be down and they are still shooting. My friend was gunned down by police. I am not going to say he did not deserve it because he did have a gun and he would not put it down, but they shot him over 20 something times. So placing that information into this case, of course Tom is going to continue to hit Jason even after the threat is down. He wants to ensure that the threat is not going to get up again. This happens a lot when they are bigger threats too. I agree we do not know if Molly started the fight to begin with before Tom walked in the door, we have no clue if she hit him in the head already with the brick and Jason was trying to defend himself. However, as far as Tom is concerned, I only think he was going on what he was faced with at that moment. Could he have stopped, yes perhaps but then in his training I am sure he was trained to naturalize the threat so as not to give them a chance to come back at you.

    Here is the thing with the self defense portion of Tom's defense. Police offices you see very often shoot to defend until the the threat that is attacking is down for good. I have seen many police shooting videos where the person will be down and they are still shooting. My friend was gunned down by police. I am not going to say he did not deserve it because he did have a gun and he would not put it down, but they shot him over 20 something times. So placing that information into this case, of course Tom is going to continue to hit Jason even after the threat is down. He wants to ensure that the threat is not going to get up again. This happens a lot when they are bigger threats too. I agree we do not know if Molly started the fight to begin with before Tom walked in the door, we have no clue if she hit him in the head already with the brick and Jason was trying to defend himself. However, as far as Tom is concerned, I only think he was going on what he was faced with at that moment. Could he have stopped, yes perhaps but then in his training I am sure he was trained to naturalize the threat so as not to give them a chance to come back at you.

  • I have to say, I'm quite surprised that they were convicted. I didn't think they would pass the burden of proof. But I believe they're guilty. I wouldn't be surprised if he was drugged with a sleeping pill and then Molly struck first while he was sleeping with the concrete block, and that's how it all started.

    I have to say, I'm quite surprised that they were convicted. I didn't think they would pass the burden of proof. But I believe they're guilty.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he was drugged with a sleeping pill and then Molly struck first while he was sleeping with the concrete block, and that's how it all started.

  • Kelly
    Kelly Los Angeles, CA
    I do not buy Tom and Molly's stories at all. I think they planned it in advance. The baseball bat being so handy is really odd, the stone being in the bedroom is off, the wife downstairs not doing or seeing anything does not make sense, their stories in general seem like total BS. So coincidental the "unexpected" visit and why would Jason attack his wife knowing his FBI Agent father-in-law was just downstairs? Tom probably thought he could get away with it being an FBI Agent and all. I am very much on the side of innocent until proven guilty and there needs to be a lot of evidence to convince me but in this case I definitely lean towards premeditation and not self-defense for both.

    I do not buy Tom and Molly's stories at all. I think they planned it in advance. The baseball bat being so handy is really odd, the stone being in the bedroom is off, the wife downstairs not doing or seeing anything does not make sense, their stories in general seem like total BS. So coincidental the "unexpected" visit and why would Jason attack his wife knowing his FBI Agent father-in-law was just downstairs? Tom probably thought he could get away with it being an FBI Agent and all. I am very much on the side of innocent until proven guilty and there needs to be a lot of evidence to convince me but in this case I definitely lean towards premeditation and not self-defense for both.

  • Heather
    Heather Oregon
    I don't think it was premeditated. I DO think she was being abused & Dad walked in on it. Jason had been drinking all day long according to reports. I can see markings on her neck. I question the death of the first wife. She may well have had the brick in the room because she was afraid of him. It's hard to say. The Dad was ex FBI, he would surely have known how to clean up a crime scene of they had really been trying to hide a premeditated crime. Nor would he of called 911. I don't know that you really understand how domestic violence works. I think that's exactly what this case was - a very sad ending to DV. Maybe their second trial will bring forth more facts.

    I don't think it was premeditated. I DO think she was being abused & Dad walked in on it. Jason had been drinking all day long according to reports. I can see markings on her neck. I question the death of the first wife. She may well have had the brick in the room because she was afraid of him. It's hard to say. The Dad was ex FBI, he would surely have known how to clean up a crime scene of they had really been trying to hide a premeditated crime. Nor would he of called 911. I don't know that you really understand how domestic violence works. I think that's exactly what this case was - a very sad ending to DV. Maybe their second trial will bring forth more facts.

  • Susan
    Susan Illinois
    Very interesting case, guys. Each time I decide one way, I go to the other. I have to say that I find the stone on the night stand very suspicious. I’m an artist, do a lot of projects, even heavy things like that, but why would you bring that into the bedroom? Here, honey, is the rock we’re going to paint? I can see another scenario. Perhaps he had been an abusive spouse. She decides she can’t take it anymore, keeps the rock in the room on purpose and dad and daughter make it all happen. Just a thought. That said, just one part of a recording of him angry and the boy saying dad gets angry does not necessarily make him abusive. Man, going in circles again! Belated Happy Birthday to the Captain! 🎂

    Very interesting case, guys. Each time I decide one way, I go to the other. I have to say that I find the stone on the night stand very suspicious. I’m an artist, do a lot of projects, even heavy things like that, but why would you bring that into the bedroom? Here, honey, is the rock we’re going to paint? I can see another scenario. Perhaps he had been an abusive spouse. She decides she can’t take it anymore, keeps the rock in the room on purpose and dad and daughter make it all happen. Just a thought. That said, just one part of a recording of him angry and the boy saying dad gets angry does not necessarily make him abusive. Man, going in circles again!
    Belated Happy Birthday to the Captain! 🎂

  • Carrie Medlin
    Carrie Medlin
    One quick thought on the watch, what kind was it? I know plenty of people that wear their fitbit or fitness watch to bed because it tracks their sleep patterns..

    One quick thought on the watch, what kind was it? I know plenty of people that wear their fitbit or fitness watch to bed because it tracks their sleep patterns..

  • Amy
    Amy KCMO
    Heather i agree with you! it does seem like domestic violence (which was proven there was a record of this) and i think dad walked in on it too. i mean any dad that i know would immediately get defensive seeing his daughter get hurt. i dont like the brick being there because it is very odd and if she was keeping it to protect herself its kind of stupid because how does she know Jason wont just grab it first? but yes i agree i dont think either of them had intent to kill him at first.

    Heather i agree with you! it does seem like domestic violence (which was proven there was a record of this) and i think dad walked in on it too. i mean any dad that i know would immediately get defensive seeing his daughter get hurt. i dont like the brick being there because it is very odd and if she was keeping it to protect herself its kind of stupid because how does she know Jason wont just grab it first? but yes i agree i dont think either of them had intent to kill him at first.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Carrie, It was an old man - old style watch. I did learn that a lot of military people sleep with their watch on. I. can't recall if he is former military but he was FBI so that makes sense. I know many in the LE profession and they said they are like me - they don't sleep with their watch on. Cheers Nic

    Hi Carrie,
    It was an old man - old style watch. I did learn that a lot of military people sleep with their watch on. I. can't recall if he is former military but he was FBI so that makes sense. I know many in the LE profession and they said they are like me - they don't sleep with their watch on.
    Cheers Nic

  • Tiffany
    Tiffany San Diego
    Great episodes! I am a big fan. Listened to every episode!! But this is the first time I am coming to this page and it's to see the crime scene photos. I thought it was mentioned they would be here. Can you direct me?

    Great episodes! I am a big fan. Listened to every episode!! But this is the first time I am coming to this page and it's to see the crime scene photos. I thought it was mentioned they would be here. Can you direct me?

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Hi Tiffany - there is not really room here so that stuff goes to our Instagram and Facebook listener page. cheers nic

    Hi Tiffany - there is not really room here so that stuff goes to our Instagram and Facebook listener page.
    cheers nic

  • Kim
    Kim Sunnyvale
    Hi guys, Great episodes as always! I don’t know where I fall when it comes to this case - there’s so many strange things going on, and nothing is ever as it seems when domestic abuse is evolved - I’ve been a domestic violence and sexual assault crisis counselor for years who’s served in both police stations and hospitals, usually immediately after the events. The primary reason for my comment is I want to weigh in on the “cold body” thing since you said you’re unsure whether or not that’s indicative of anything. I’m an RN who has, unfortunately, had my fair share of patients pass away. I can tell you the sense of “life” goes real fast. Almost immediately after someone breathes their last breath, artificial or otherwise, they lose the color, turgor, and temperature of a living person within minutes. I’ve walked in minutes after a person’s expired and they’re already “cool” at the least. So if the 911 call alone was 15 minutes, I don’t doubt at all that between that time and dispatch time, father and daughter could have called 911 expediently and the EMTs may still have thought the body was cold.

    Hi guys,
    Great episodes as always! I don’t know where I fall when it comes to this case - there’s so many strange things going on, and nothing is ever as it seems when domestic abuse is evolved - I’ve been a domestic violence and sexual assault crisis counselor for years who’s served in both police stations and hospitals, usually immediately after the events. The primary reason for my comment is I want to weigh in on the “cold body” thing since you said you’re unsure whether or not that’s indicative of anything. I’m an RN who has, unfortunately, had my fair share of patients pass away. I can tell you the sense of “life” goes real fast. Almost immediately after someone breathes their last breath, artificial or otherwise, they lose the color, turgor, and temperature of a living person within minutes. I’ve walked in minutes after a person’s expired and they’re already “cool” at the least. So if the 911 call alone was 15 minutes, I don’t doubt at all that between that time and dispatch time, father and daughter could have called 911 expediently and the EMTs may still have thought the body was cold.

  • Shane
    Shane Ireland
    Poor performance particularly by the captain on this one. Surely if Molly was being choked by a 260lb man she would have needed medical attention. If they both performed cpr on a man in his condition they both would have been covered in blood. Shame on Captain for saying his first wife died in suspicious circumstances as this has absolutely been disproven. A lot of mud was thrown at a dead man's name in order to justify their story and this is not taken into account by the podcast. Also maybe Captain is giving too much credence to Tom because he is ex FBI. There are plenty of murderers out there who are ex law enforcement.

    Poor performance particularly by the captain on this one. Surely if Molly was being choked by a 260lb man she would have needed medical attention. If they both performed cpr on a man in his condition they both would have been covered in blood. Shame on Captain for saying his first wife died in suspicious circumstances as this has absolutely been disproven. A lot of mud was thrown at a dead man's name in order to justify their story and this is not taken into account by the podcast. Also maybe Captain is giving too much credence to Tom because he is ex FBI. There are plenty of murderers out there who are ex law enforcement.

  • Jared
    Jared OH
    Blood on back of door means Molly hit Jason 1st. Tom comes in. By that time Jason has overtaken Molly. Tom reacts in self defense. Molly should b tried for assault w deadly weaoon. Tom, no charges

    Blood on back of door means Molly hit Jason 1st. Tom comes in. By that time Jason has overtaken Molly. Tom reacts in self defense. Molly should b tried for assault w deadly weaoon. Tom, no charges

  • Jax
    Jax Lively Grove
    Slatts McCracker I thought the same thing. But upon further inspection of the crime scene photos, I couldnt see the bottom of the door in any of the photos. The vacuum photo you can but you cant see the front side. They may have had the door propped open to take photos looking out into the hallway. Or possibly the door is staying open in photos because it's open almost all of the way. My bathroom door swings shut if you just open it just enough to walk through. But stays open if I open it about halfway. But you may be correct! And Mary thanks for the input!

    Slatts McCracker I thought the same thing. But upon further inspection of the crime scene photos, I couldnt see the bottom of the door in any of the photos. The vacuum photo you can but you cant see the front side. They may have had the door propped open to take photos looking out into the hallway. Or possibly the door is staying open in photos because it's open almost all of the way. My bathroom door swings shut if you just open it just enough to walk through. But stays open if I open it about halfway. But you may be correct!
    And Mary thanks for the input!

  • Cora
    Cora Colorado
    I absolutely see this as nothing other than FIRST degree murder. I think this was planned by Tom, Molly, and maybe even Tom’s wife. The brick and bat are just way too convenient. I don’t buy their stories for a second. I don’t buy anything they’re saying. Tom’s wife didn’t call 911? Really? Tom didn’t instruct her to call 911? If I were Tom’s wife I’d have called 911 right away. No reason for her to hide downstairs. She could’ve locked the dogs down there and went up to at least make sure her daughter was ok. Do you know any mom or wife who would just hide in the basement hoping things will turn out ok with that kind of violence and racket going on up there? With your husband and daughter involved no less? I don’t know a single mother out there who would hide downstairs without at least calling 911. But for me I’d have been up there to see what was happening. Not cowering in the basement. She knew full well her husband and daughter would be coming out on top. And the 911 call with the fake CPR? He can’t turn over a 260 pound man? He and Molly couldn’t do this together? I know 110 lb women who can do this. The fake crying from Molly? I’d be a hot mess. Inconsolable - even if it was self defense because she was just brutally attacked according to her story. Wouldn’t that be scary enough? When EMT’s arrive he’s already cold and blood is dried? Come on. Self defense does not equal beating someone to a pulp. What kind of dad doesn’t at least run in the room and order his daughter out of the room to get her to safety? If their story is true then they’d have gained control of Jason to the point of releasing Molly immediately. You don’t swing a bat in the direction of your daughter. If I were the daughter I’d have run out right away to call 911 to protect my dad and if nothing to get out of that scary situation. She brought a brick to a human being’s head. Her husband’s head the head of a father of two young children. None of these people acted right. The alcohol consumption piece is also a lie. His blood alcohol proved that. So why lie? Because they’re covering up a planned murder. All for greed. Pure and simple. I don’t buy their stories for a second and I’m pretty trusting and gullible. This wasn’t self defense. This was pure evil inflicted by people with no soul. The charges should be first degree murder.

    I absolutely see this as nothing other than FIRST degree murder. I think this was planned by Tom, Molly, and maybe even Tom’s wife. The brick and bat are just way too convenient. I don’t buy their stories for a second. I don’t buy anything they’re saying. Tom’s wife didn’t call 911? Really? Tom didn’t instruct her to call 911? If I were Tom’s wife I’d have called 911 right away. No reason for her to hide downstairs. She could’ve locked the dogs down there and went up to at least make sure her daughter was ok. Do you know any mom or wife who would just hide in the basement hoping things will turn out ok with that kind of violence and racket going on up there? With your husband and daughter involved no less? I don’t know a single mother out there who would hide downstairs without at least calling 911. But for me I’d have been up there to see what was happening. Not cowering in the basement. She knew full well her husband and daughter would be coming out on top.
    And the 911 call with the fake CPR? He can’t turn over a 260 pound man? He and Molly couldn’t do this together? I know 110 lb women who can do this. The fake crying from Molly? I’d be a hot mess. Inconsolable - even if it was self defense because she was just brutally attacked according to her story. Wouldn’t that be scary enough? When EMT’s arrive he’s already cold and blood is dried? Come on.
    Self defense does not equal beating someone to a pulp. What kind of dad doesn’t at least run in the room and order his daughter out of the room to get her to safety? If their story is true then they’d have gained control of Jason to the point of releasing Molly immediately. You don’t swing a bat in the direction of your daughter. If I were the daughter I’d have run out right away to call 911 to protect my dad and if nothing to get out of that scary situation. She brought a brick to a human being’s head. Her husband’s head the head of a father of two young children. None of these people acted right. The alcohol consumption piece is also a lie. His blood alcohol proved that. So why lie? Because they’re covering up a planned murder. All for greed. Pure and simple. I don’t buy their stories for a second and I’m pretty trusting and gullible.
    This wasn’t self defense. This was pure evil inflicted by people with no soul. The charges should be first degree murder.

Add comment