Man With No Hands /// 534

56 comments

  • Kristin S
    Kristin S Detroit
    Love the piano jam this week!

    Love the piano jam this week!

  • Matt
    Matt Northern Virginia
    I looked at the tobacco barn on Google Maps. I don't know how things were set up then - I suspect the house and the trailer are more recent - but I am wondering if it may have been possible to pull around back of the barn and thus have some privacy to go about concealing the body. They would know the farmer isn't going to check the barn in the middle of the night, whereas even on an empty country road, someone may drive by and notice a car where one normally would not park.

    I looked at the tobacco barn on Google Maps. I don't know how things were set up then - I suspect the house and the trailer are more recent - but I am wondering if it may have been possible to pull around back of the barn and thus have some privacy to go about concealing the body. They would know the farmer isn't going to check the barn in the middle of the night, whereas even on an empty country road, someone may drive by and notice a car where one normally would not park.

  • Johannes
    Johannes Sweden
    In my opinion it looks that he might be of Eastern European descent… Just a quick reaction.

    In my opinion it looks that he might be of Eastern European descent… Just a quick reaction.

  • Hmmmmmm
    Hmmmmmm Lost
    This case really does exclude ur listener's from outside the states absolutely no point in listening.

    This case really does exclude ur listener's from outside the states absolutely no point in listening.

  • Sue B.
    Sue B. Outskirts, parts unknown
    As The Man with No Hands has been exhumed, maybe LE could administer the isotope test on his remaining natural teeth to determine in what area of the world he spent time in, much like was done with the Isdal Woman in Norway. I really hope he is able to be identified and claimed. Good episode, guys.

    As The Man with No Hands has been exhumed, maybe LE could administer the isotope test on his remaining natural teeth to determine in what area of the world he spent time in, much like was done with the Isdal Woman in Norway. I really hope he is able to be identified and claimed. Good episode, guys.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Matt, From my understanding back in 1989 there wasn't anything around this barn and you could pull up very close to the barn from the road. There's a chance that someone was simply driving and look for a "good spot." This would fit. I'm still very surprised that he wasn't buried but I'm thankful as he may never have been located. At least we have a shot. Cheers Nic

    @ Matt,
    From my understanding back in 1989 there wasn't anything around this barn and you could pull up very close to the barn from the road. There's a chance that someone was simply driving and look for a "good spot." This would fit. I'm still very surprised that he wasn't buried but I'm thankful as he may never have been located. At least we have a shot.
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Sue - that is brilliant. I didn't think of that and you're right that has been a helpful factor in other cases - similar in nature to this one. Cheers Nic

    @ Sue - that is brilliant. I didn't think of that and you're right that has been a helpful factor in other cases - similar in nature to this one.
    Cheers Nic

  • Heidi M
    Heidi M Mesa AZ
    If he had a broken nose and extensive dental work, sounds like he may have had an accident or brutal beating prior to his murder and had restorative work vs. cosmetic.

    If he had a broken nose and extensive dental work, sounds like he may have had an accident or brutal beating prior to his murder and had restorative work vs. cosmetic.

  • Johannes
    Johannes Sweden
    @Sue - I wanna echo Nic’s comment! Brilliant! If he is of (Eastern) European descent that would be a sure fire way to prove/disprove it. With the complexion that the image shows I find it more than plausible that the victim originated from Europe - which would explain the lack of a missing persons report. He might not actually be European but maybe his parents or grand parents were. Knowing the different approaches in Europe and the US that would also make sense regarding how man of this unusual complexion would be unknown after all this time. Just going down a rabbit hole I could see how a number of people originated outside the US end up there and then something goes down and we end up with a John Doe that isn’t reported missing and perps with limited connection to the US. A scenario were the victim perpetrators aren’t ‘grounded’ in the US where the crime takes place. That would certainly make it really hard for the investigators… Just spitballing… Great episode guys! One of the best in a long time! Cheers! // JonnyT

    @Sue - I wanna echo Nic’s comment! Brilliant! If he is of (Eastern) European descent that would be a sure fire way to prove/disprove it. With the complexion that the image shows I find it more than plausible that the victim originated from Europe - which would explain the lack of a missing persons report. He might not actually be European but maybe his parents or grand parents were. Knowing the different approaches in Europe and the US that would also make sense regarding how man of this unusual complexion would be unknown after all this time. Just going down a rabbit hole I could see how a number of people originated outside the US end up there and then something goes down and we end up with a John Doe that isn’t reported missing and perps with limited connection to the US. A scenario were the victim perpetrators aren’t ‘grounded’ in the US where the crime takes place. That would certainly make it really hard for the investigators… Just spitballing… Great episode guys! One of the best in a long time!
    Cheers! // JonnyT

  • Mak
    Mak Portsmouth, OH
    I go to to school in Portsmouth and my heart almost stopped when it was mentioned. Firstly because I thought they were going to say the man was shot and mutilated here and second becasue I was excited they mentioned somewhere I know. Of course it's not for a good reason but still.

    I go to to school in Portsmouth and my heart almost stopped when it was mentioned. Firstly because I thought they were going to say the man was shot and mutilated here and second becasue I was excited they mentioned somewhere I know. Of course it's not for a good reason but still.

  • Heather
    Heather AL
    I think it would be helpful if they could possibly do a genealogy tree on his DNA. My first reaction to the picture says he's from the eastern European area as well, Johannes. Great listen!

    I think it would be helpful if they could possibly do a genealogy tree on his DNA. My first reaction to the picture says he's from the eastern European area as well, Johannes. Great listen!

  • Heather
    Heather AL
    nevermind.... I didn't finish listening to the podcast... hopefully they can find a match through genealogical match!

    nevermind.... I didn't finish listening to the podcast... hopefully they can find a match through genealogical match!

  • Naiman
    Naiman Oregon
    Great show! Would it be helpful to ask dentists around the area if they know anyone who would’ve done that type of extensive work? Seems to be unique factor. Thanks

    Great show! Would it be helpful to ask dentists around the area if they know anyone who would’ve done that type of extensive work? Seems to be unique factor.
    Thanks

  • S
    S Colorado
    Have the authorities checked Canadian missing people? His size makes me think he had an athletic past, his old injuries (teeth, nose) make me think hockey. Canada has good health care so that fits with the dental work. Per Maps, looks like Toronto is only an 8 hour drive away. We know some tobacco farms also had MJ grow operations, which can sometimes get people into dangerous situations (maybe he sometimes drove product from KY to Toronto for extra cash). As for the hands - don't you get finger printed when you apply for a passport? Well, that's where my ADHD/fantasy brain took me - I'll be curious if any part of what I said is right once they figure it out!

    Have the authorities checked Canadian missing people? His size makes me think he had an athletic past, his old injuries (teeth, nose) make me think hockey. Canada has good health care so that fits with the dental work. Per Maps, looks like Toronto is only an 8 hour drive away. We know some tobacco farms also had MJ grow operations, which can sometimes get people into dangerous situations (maybe he sometimes drove product from KY to Toronto for extra cash). As for the hands - don't you get finger printed when you apply for a passport? Well, that's where my ADHD/fantasy brain took me - I'll be curious if any part of what I said is right once they figure it out!

  • Cliff
    Cliff Georgia
    I will be completely shocked if they do not find a 3rd cousin or closer DNA match. In 2018, through DNA, I discovered my legal surname is not my biological surname. Turns out my great grandfather was a NPE. DNA science solved my mystery and I at least I now know my biological surname. I can’t wait to hear about this individual’s DNA matches. YDNA should be able to identify his paternal country/area of origin. Really enjoyed the show. Thanks.

    I will be completely shocked if they do not find a 3rd cousin or closer DNA match. In 2018, through DNA, I discovered my legal surname is not my biological surname. Turns out my great grandfather was a NPE. DNA science solved my mystery and I at least I now know my biological surname. I can’t wait to hear about this individual’s DNA matches. YDNA should be able to identify his paternal country/area of origin. Really enjoyed the show. Thanks.

  • Bing
    Bing Fl
    From the picture, description of characteristics, I wonder if he was ever a professional or amateur boxer. He’s tall, lean, has had a broken nose and missing teeth that were replaced. It would probably be a needle in a haystack but, boxers need licenses to box, usually some kind of paper trail. Great show guys, cheers

    From the picture, description of characteristics, I wonder if he was ever a professional or amateur boxer. He’s tall, lean, has had a broken nose and missing teeth that were replaced. It would probably be a needle in a haystack but, boxers need licenses to box, usually some kind of paper trail. Great show guys, cheers

  • Lou
    Lou Uk
    Lost, what a silly statement! I’m in the UK. No I can’t help but it doesn’t mean I’m not listening or find it fascinating. I googled tobacco barn as I’d never even heard of themI did comment to my daughter in jest on the part about having pals with barns, 😂

    Lost, what a silly statement!
    I’m in the UK. No I can’t help but it doesn’t mean I’m not listening or find it fascinating. I googled tobacco barn as I’d never even heard of themI did comment to my daughter in jest on the part about having pals with barns, 😂

  • Masha
    Masha Pacific NW
    Johannes- I had the exact same thought as you. When I saw the composite I immediately thought he looked Eastern European, quite distinctively so. That would make a lot of sense too. If his family was far away in another country they might not even have ever known he was missing, plus just thinking of what was going on in the world at that time, it would’ve been very complicated if not impossible for a family member in, let’s say the USSR, to report a family member in the US missing.

    Johannes- I had the exact same thought as you. When I saw the composite I immediately thought he looked Eastern European, quite distinctively so. That would make a lot of sense too. If his family was far away in another country they might not even have ever known he was missing, plus just thinking of what was going on in the world at that time, it would’ve been very complicated if not impossible for a family member in, let’s say the USSR, to report a family member in the US missing.

  • chris
    chris FL
    What was called the Cornbread Mafia was being investigated and indicted one after another around that time in Kentucky. 70+ were arrested. And, not one of the arrested parties cooperated with law enforcement. Not. One. That is something. IMHO: The body was a message to somebody.

    What was called the Cornbread Mafia was being investigated and indicted one after another around that time in Kentucky. 70+ were arrested. And, not one of the arrested parties cooperated with law enforcement. Not. One. That is something.

    IMHO: The body was a message to somebody.

  • Amanda
    Amanda Cincy
    In my opinion with the porcelain veneer teeth I think that he might’ve had maybe just a bad mouth and had all of his teeth removed to have and you sat in the 80s that was not really that expensive versus may be in the 50s or 60s? He could’ve been a culprit of the iron medicine given to babies at that time that stained your teeth and that he had the flat head he might’ve had a very rough infancy and he was a preemie then he needed to have iron fortified milk which gave him the flat head and the stained teeth so we had his repaired. Maybe with his size and broken nose he was a boxer and lost too many fights? So they removed his hands? Just a thought, I don’t know and his family is too scared to ever come forward. Sounds more like a movie to me but just throwing it out there haha.

    In my opinion with the porcelain veneer teeth I think that he might’ve had maybe just a bad mouth and had all of his teeth removed to have and you sat in the 80s that was not really that expensive versus may be in the 50s or 60s? He could’ve been a culprit of the iron medicine given to babies at that time that stained your teeth and that he had the flat head he might’ve had a very rough infancy and he was a preemie then he needed to have iron fortified milk which gave him the flat head and the stained teeth so we had his repaired.

    Maybe with his size and broken nose he was a boxer and lost too many fights? So they removed his hands? Just a thought, I don’t know and his family is too scared to ever come forward. Sounds more like a movie to me but just throwing it out there haha.

  • Devin
    Devin North Carolina
    I get the feeling he is someone adopted from another country and raised in the United States. I am not sure how commonplace that would have been in the late 1980s. Just a thought given the skull deformity that is common with orphans left in cribs for extended periods of time.

    I get the feeling he is someone adopted from another country and raised in the United States. I am not sure how commonplace that would have been in the late 1980s. Just a thought given the skull deformity that is common with orphans left in cribs for extended periods of time.

  • Dave
    Dave Ottawa, Canada
    The description and rendering of the man with no hands sounds like a Russian hockey player to me. Large man with crew cut, broken nose and fixed teeth can describe many hockey players. "No hands" is also a hockey term for a player that isn't great at handling the puck.

    The description and rendering of the man with no hands sounds like a Russian hockey player to me. Large man with crew cut, broken nose and fixed teeth can describe many hockey players. "No hands" is also a hockey term for a player that isn't great at handling the puck.

  • Lisa
    Lisa Texas
    why not submit his DNA to sights like 23andme?

    why not submit his DNA to sights like 23andme?

  • Sally
    Sally Illinois
    @lost Most of their cases are in the US so I am confused by your comment.

    @lost
    Most of their cases are in the US so I am confused by your comment.

  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Bentonville, AR
    Nic...does this not have at least some resemblance to you????

    Nic...does this not have at least some resemblance to you????

  • Secretagent0014
    Secretagent0014 Tampa
    There is a similar John Doe case in Henderson, KY.

    There is a similar John Doe case in Henderson, KY.

  • Courtney
    Courtney Rochester
    I want more information on how they determined the murder was committed elsewhere and the body transported. If you suspend that conclusion the case looks completely different. With his size alone it would be easier to believe he was killed in that location after being brought there alive. It could increase the possibility of the murder being committed by a single individual as well. Great episode!

    I want more information on how they determined the murder was committed elsewhere and the body transported. If you suspend that conclusion the case looks completely different. With his size alone it would be easier to believe he was killed in that location after being brought there alive. It could increase the possibility of the murder being committed by a single individual as well. Great episode!

  • Shannon
    Shannon Oakland
    Could the hanging story come from the hanging tobacco leaves in the barn? Maybe just because there is tobacco hanging in the barn there was a myth started that he was hanging? Or is it specifically mentioned that there are marks that indicate hanging on the body?

    Could the hanging story come from the hanging tobacco leaves in the barn? Maybe just because there is tobacco hanging in the barn there was a myth started that he was hanging? Or is it specifically mentioned that there are marks that indicate hanging on the body?

  • Secretagent0014
    Secretagent0014 Tampa
    Here’s the link of the 89 crime it was Owensboro not Henderson. The murders aren’t the same but the dismemberment is. https://unidentified.wikia.org/wiki/Daviess_County_John_Doe_(1990)

    Here’s the link of the 89 crime it was Owensboro not Henderson. The murders aren’t the same but the dismemberment is. https://unidentified.wikia.org/wiki/Daviess_County_John_Doe_(1990)

  • Elaine
    Elaine Ada Michigan
    This is fascinating. I can’t wait to hear updates. Someone knows him.

    This is fascinating. I can’t wait to hear updates. Someone knows him.

  • Bill
    Bill Pennsylvanian
    I’d bet that he’s European. I assume his misshaped head is a result of crib neglect. He was probably an orphanage baby.

    I’d bet that he’s European. I assume his misshaped head is a result of crib neglect. He was probably an orphanage baby.

  • Lisa
    Lisa Wisconsin
    I wonder if this young man was in the military. Members of military are finger printed. He had a crew cut. I know there are military bases in Kentucky, although not sure if close proximity to the barn. Just a thought that came to me early on when listening to this episode.

    I wonder if this young man was in the military. Members of military are finger printed. He had a crew cut. I know there are military bases in Kentucky, although not sure if close proximity to the barn. Just a thought that came to me early on when listening to this episode.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Jonathan - maybe a little... He's got a flat nose - my is long and pointy and I have blue eyes and a longer face. I look like what the product of an Owen and Luke Wilson child would look like. Not sure if that's true but someone said that to me about 15 years ago and the whole room erupted. Cheers Nic

    @ Jonathan - maybe a little... He's got a flat nose - my is long and pointy and I have blue eyes and a longer face.
    I look like what the product of an Owen and Luke Wilson child would look like. Not sure if that's true but someone said that to me about 15 years ago and the whole room erupted.
    Cheers Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ ALL - I do very much dig the Hockey player and boxer comments. This does make sense. I have a feeling he will be ID'd in the next few months, just a gut feeling based off of the "tone" of LE on this case. The cornbread mafia is something I was aware of but just didn't place it here. I think there's a strong possibility that there could be a link there. Cheers Nic

    @ ALL - I do very much dig the Hockey player and boxer comments. This does make sense. I have a feeling he will be ID'd in the next few months, just a gut feeling based off of the "tone" of LE on this case. The cornbread mafia is something I was aware of but just didn't place it here. I think there's a strong possibility that there could be a link there. Cheers Nic

  • Diane
    Diane Iowa
    Others have suggested that he could be Eastern European. Maybe he’s an Ashkenazi Jew?

    Others have suggested that he could be Eastern European. Maybe he’s an Ashkenazi Jew?

  • Me
    Me Born in a barn
    Growing up in 1980’s New England I recall my Uncle Sam requisitioned a section of my grandparents’ tobacco barn for his marijuana harvest and that was plenty of years after my cousin ran away to marry a mafia hitman in Philadelphia. Decades later, I myself birthed a pair of twins and the runt well he did develop that flat-head syndrome and it also caused him to have a very broad upper forehead like this poor handless fellow. I don’t remember my family missing such a fine fellow and our men do tend to grow upwards of 6 feet, sometimes creeping past the five inch mark so I think we would be able to account for him of her were our’n and on top of that I guarantee half of my kinfolks DNA is already in the CODUS (at least I know mine is). I reckon he was transported from a location that was far aways off on the I-75 or elsewhere far enough that he wouldn’t be missed to closely. Definitely not from that Kentucky area. So sorry I can’t be of more assistance but that’s what I got for this one.

    Growing up in 1980’s New England I recall my Uncle Sam requisitioned a section of my grandparents’ tobacco barn for his marijuana harvest and that was plenty of years after my cousin ran away to marry a mafia hitman in Philadelphia. Decades later, I myself birthed a pair of twins and the runt well he did develop that flat-head syndrome and it also caused him to have a very broad upper forehead like this poor handless fellow. I don’t remember my family missing such a fine fellow and our men do tend to grow upwards of 6 feet, sometimes creeping past the five inch mark so I think we would be able to account for him of her were our’n and on top of that I guarantee half of my kinfolks DNA is already in the CODUS (at least I know mine is). I reckon he was transported from a location that was far aways off on the I-75 or elsewhere far enough that he wouldn’t be missed to closely. Definitely not from that Kentucky area. So sorry I can’t be of more assistance but that’s what I got for this one.

  • Jessica
    Jessica MS
    I just finished the episode and something kept running through my mind the whole time. What if his family had something to do with it? That would explain why no one has come forward to identify him. The only people who can don’t want him to be identified. When you guys were talking about what could have caused the flat head, I wondered if neglect during infancy could cause that. That then led me to think maybe the broken nose and even his need for extensive dental work was caused by physical abuse? That may be far fetched and it’s very likely that my job as an adolescent therapist influenced my thinking. Hah! But I had to share. Great job as always, gentleman! Jessica

    I just finished the episode and something kept running through my mind the whole time. What if his family had something to do with it? That would explain why no one has come forward to identify him. The only people who can don’t want him to be identified. When you guys were talking about what could have caused the flat head, I wondered if neglect during infancy could cause that. That then led me to think maybe the broken nose and even his need for extensive dental work was caused by physical abuse? That may be far fetched and it’s very likely that my job as an adolescent therapist influenced my thinking. Hah! But I had to share. Great job as always, gentleman!
    Jessica

  • Jody Pasalich
    Jody Pasalich Excelsior Springs MO
    I like the comment about broken nose and dental work being caused by an accident. If it was known by the killers he had been pior Military, that would be a possibility to remove hands, I think Military is fingerprinted in boot camp. Hair cut kind of suggests prior service too. Awesome work, awesome show, awesome music.

    I like the comment about broken nose and dental work being caused by an accident.
    If it was known by the killers he had been pior Military, that would be a possibility to remove hands, I think Military is fingerprinted in boot camp. Hair cut kind of suggests prior service too.
    Awesome work, awesome show, awesome music.

  • Todd
    Todd Dirt Nap
    Seems like this guy could’ve been a gangster himself. And is the Cornbread mafia the same as “The Company “ discussed in the Sally Denton book “The Bluegrass Conspiracy “?

    Seems like this guy could’ve been a gangster himself. And is the Cornbread mafia the same as “The Company “ discussed in the Sally Denton book “The Bluegrass Conspiracy “?

  • Papaya thundersnow
    Papaya thundersnow Chesterville
    @lost Wonder if you didn’t hear them say “he may even be from outside the United States and this is why he hasn’t been identified”. Agree with @sally. At any rate shared on fb to help generate some activity

    @lost
    Wonder if you didn’t hear them say “he may even be from outside the United States and this is why he hasn’t been identified”. Agree with @sally. At any rate shared on fb to help generate some activity

  • Loved the music this week! I had never heard of this case, thanks for bringing some light to it. Sure hope they identify him soon.

    Loved the music this week!
    I had never heard of this case, thanks for bringing some light to it.
    Sure hope they identify him soon.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous PA
    Great episode. I have a lot of random thoughts, so I'll just throw them out there. I agree with Nic 100% about the odd location of the body. Removing the hands suggests some level of planning and sophistication, but dumping a body in a barn suggests otherwise. They contradict one another. Like Nic said, why not bury the body in the wilderness, or hell, even if you didn't want to go through the trouble of burying it, putting it way out in the woods under branches and debris would have been a better hiding spot. Or a body of water. I'm wondering if this dumping spot wasn't as pre-planned as assumed. It feels amateurish to me. Yes, the barn may be described as a place not many out of towners would know about, but maybe this was a place the killer or killers knew about, but at the same time didn't plan ahead of time where to dump the body. If it was even a pre-planned killing, it may not have been. Could've very well been spontaneous. And then they panic, racking their brain to think of a place to hide it very quickly and choosing the barn. If it wasn't very far off the road, it would not have been as difficult of a transport compared to way out in the middle of the woods. Which is why I doubt this was any kind of mob type killing. Not any sophisticated crime syndicate, anyway. Perhaps a local gang of thugs deemed a "mob" but any sophisticated crime element I highly doubt would hide a body in a barn. Possibility the family may have been the ones who committed this crime? If they were involved, it stands to reason they wouldn't want to report him missing. I was going to bring up the possibility of being estranged from the family and either being homeless or taken up by a gang, to where they would not report the individual missing, but given the apparent expensive dental work he received, that's probably unlikely. And one final thing, which is a question. Does anyone know if when a body is discovered, how they calculate their weight? How much does decomposition affect the weight of a dead body? I'm not sure how quickly mass is lost. Does the medical examiner weight the corpse as-is, or do they estimate based on any mass lost from decomposition and determine it that way?

    Great episode. I have a lot of random thoughts, so I'll just throw them out there.

    I agree with Nic 100% about the odd location of the body. Removing the hands suggests some level of planning and sophistication, but dumping a body in a barn suggests otherwise. They contradict one another. Like Nic said, why not bury the body in the wilderness, or hell, even if you didn't want to go through the trouble of burying it, putting it way out in the woods under branches and debris would have been a better hiding spot. Or a body of water. I'm wondering if this dumping spot wasn't as pre-planned as assumed. It feels amateurish to me. Yes, the barn may be described as a place not many out of towners would know about, but maybe this was a place the killer or killers knew about, but at the same time didn't plan ahead of time where to dump the body. If it was even a pre-planned killing, it may not have been. Could've very well been spontaneous. And then they panic, racking their brain to think of a place to hide it very quickly and choosing the barn. If it wasn't very far off the road, it would not have been as difficult of a transport compared to way out in the middle of the woods. Which is why I doubt this was any kind of mob type killing. Not any sophisticated crime syndicate, anyway. Perhaps a local gang of thugs deemed a "mob" but any sophisticated crime element I highly doubt would hide a body in a barn.

    Possibility the family may have been the ones who committed this crime? If they were involved, it stands to reason they wouldn't want to report him missing.

    I was going to bring up the possibility of being estranged from the family and either being homeless or taken up by a gang, to where they would not report the individual missing, but given the apparent expensive dental work he received, that's probably unlikely.

    And one final thing, which is a question. Does anyone know if when a body is discovered, how they calculate their weight? How much does decomposition affect the weight of a dead body? I'm not sure how quickly mass is lost. Does the medical examiner weight the corpse as-is, or do they estimate based on any mass lost from decomposition and determine it that way?

  • Heather
    Heather Oregon
    He looks very Italian/Greek imo - that Mediterranean look. Likely arrested previously, hence, the “no hands/ no prints”. Fast forward 32 years, perhaps genetic DNA will help. Very interesting case guys, thanks for covering it.

    He looks very Italian/Greek imo - that Mediterranean look. Likely arrested previously, hence, the “no hands/ no prints”. Fast forward 32 years, perhaps genetic DNA will help. Very interesting case guys, thanks for covering it.

  • Sarah
    Sarah Australia
    The crew cut hairstyle wasn’t the standard haircut of the time. Perhaps there is a military connection. It may have been thought he was merely AWOL hence not reported missing.

    The crew cut hairstyle wasn’t the standard haircut of the time. Perhaps there is a military connection. It may have been thought he was merely AWOL hence not reported missing.

  • Carol Lenell
    Carol Lenell Spring, Tx
    I am so sad at the shotty job done by the KSP on the sight that day. They didn’t gather the much needed information from the tobacco farmer. And the autopsy report has been DESTROYED!?!? How and why when you have a murder!!!!! There is definitely a family out their in the world suffering from his loss. I believe he is from another country and we haven’t merged with them. I hope there is an update on this genealogy report when it’s completed. 🙇‍♀️

    I am so sad at the shotty job done by the KSP on the sight that day. They didn’t gather the much needed information from the tobacco farmer. And the autopsy report has been DESTROYED!?!? How and why when you have a murder!!!!! There is definitely a family out their in the world suffering from his loss. I believe he is from another country and we haven’t merged with them. I hope there is an update on this genealogy report when it’s completed. 🙇‍♀️

  • Ann
    Ann Houston
    My first thought on seeing the picture was football player. Was his hair actually like that or was that a guess? It’s very football player hair, especially on top of the big square build. Anyway, I hope they get him a name soon.

    My first thought on seeing the picture was football player. Was his hair actually like that or was that a guess? It’s very football player hair, especially on top of the big square build. Anyway, I hope they get him a name soon.

  • Johannws
    Johannws Sweden
    Again, the feeling that he is of European descent persists. If you take the year into consideration it isn’t all that implausible that he might have been a (more or less) recent immigrant to the US. Russia, Belarus, (former) Yugoslavia, Turkey etc. It was a time when the influx of people (of all walks of life) from Eastern Europe were on the rise and shadowy figures expanded to new territory. The fact that he’s not identified feels like there’s a strong probability that he had no deeper ties to the US. It might be as simple as the ‘no hand man’ came to to the US from Eastern Europe to do some shady business and something went terrible wrong. His relatives/family might not have known that he left Europe and therefore might have been non the wiser that he disappeared in the US. This was the the 80’s and the works wasn’t connected. Again, this leads me to believe that the lack of identification is due to geographical distance and how that effected the world in the days before we were all connected. I believe that there’s a family somewhere that lost a son/brother/spouse but never had any idea that the person had left the country let alone the continent. Now, in 2021, that would probably be quite easy to solve. Let’s spread the world in Europe! I’m in Western Europe but I’m hoping that the word gets out to the east - that might give us an answer. Cheers //JonnyT

    Again, the feeling that he is of European descent persists. If you take the year into consideration it isn’t all that implausible that he might have been a (more or less) recent immigrant to the US. Russia, Belarus, (former) Yugoslavia, Turkey etc. It was a time when the influx of people (of all walks of life) from Eastern Europe were on the rise and shadowy figures expanded to new territory. The fact that he’s not identified feels like there’s a strong probability that he had no deeper ties to the US. It might be as simple as the ‘no hand man’ came to to the US from Eastern Europe to do some shady business and something went terrible wrong. His relatives/family might not have known that he left Europe and therefore might have been non the wiser that he disappeared in the US. This was the the 80’s and the works wasn’t connected. Again, this leads me to believe that the lack of identification is due to geographical distance and how that effected the world in the days before we were all connected. I believe that there’s a family somewhere that lost a son/brother/spouse but never had any idea that the person had left the country let alone the continent. Now, in 2021, that would probably be quite easy to solve. Let’s spread the world in Europe! I’m in Western Europe but I’m hoping that the word gets out to the east - that might give us an answer.
    Cheers
    //JonnyT

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Carol - thanks for the post. When researching this case - I was told that the autopsy could not be released to the public. Do you know for certain that it has been destroyed? All reports indicate otherwise. Please let me know. Thanks Nic

    @ Carol - thanks for the post. When researching this case - I was told that the autopsy could not be released to the public. Do you know for certain that it has been destroyed? All reports indicate otherwise.
    Please let me know. Thanks Nic

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    @ Ann - yes he was found with his hair and it was described just as stated on the show. I am considering the possibility if he were to have long(er) hair - if Ione went to the trouble of removing hands, well then a hair cut after death is not out of the question either. Cheers Nic

    @ Ann - yes he was found with his hair and it was described just as stated on the show. I am considering the possibility if he were to have long(er) hair - if Ione went to the trouble of removing hands, well then a hair cut after death is not out of the question either.
    Cheers Nic

  • DeeDoo
    DeeDoo
    The idea that he may be Eastern European really surprised me, because I had that feeling as well. I am part Lithuanian and something about his portrait seemed familiar to me. In N.E. P.A. specifically, there was a strong mafia presence until at least the 1980s, and a very large Eastern European community. As mining and other industry began to decline in the area, fast money making opportunities were welcome. I know of at least one family member-a 2nd cousin-who was "affiliated" in the 70s and 80s. He was around the age of the victim during that time as well. Chicago would also have that element as well. A significant Mob presence with the largest Eastern European population outside of E. Europe. Just brainstorming, but it's food for thought. Also, the Baltic nations and Bosnia have some of the tallest people on average. The dental work is also a fascinating clue. The DNA will be so helpful in identifying his background and hopefully his identity one day. Great episode!

    The idea that he may be Eastern European really surprised me, because I had that feeling as well. I am part Lithuanian and something about his portrait seemed familiar to me. In N.E. P.A. specifically, there was a strong mafia presence until at least the 1980s, and a very large Eastern European community. As mining and other industry began to decline in the area, fast money making opportunities were welcome. I know of at least one family member-a 2nd cousin-who was "affiliated" in the 70s and 80s. He was around the age of the victim during that time as well. Chicago would also have that element as well. A significant Mob presence with the largest Eastern European population outside of E. Europe. Just brainstorming, but it's food for thought. Also, the Baltic nations and Bosnia have some of the tallest people on average. The dental work is also a fascinating clue. The DNA will be so helpful in identifying his background and hopefully his identity one day. Great episode!

  • John
    John North Carolina
    Agree with a man, 6'4'', 220 lbs, broken nose and extensive dental rebuild screams hockey player. Hockey player with his hands cut off screams Russians. In 1989 this could be paramilitary or criminal peopetrators (or both).

    Agree with a man, 6'4'', 220 lbs, broken nose and extensive dental rebuild screams hockey player. Hockey player with his hands cut off screams Russians. In 1989 this could be paramilitary or criminal peopetrators (or both).

  • Hip27
    Hip27
    What an intriguing case…thank you for bringing it to us! I have a couple of thoughts… The teeth are an interesting clue. It reminds me of the Sumter County Does. The male Doe, later identified as Paul Freund, had extensive and unique dental work. Authorities even reached out to the ADA to get help identifying where the dental work might have been done. It ended up that Freund had the dental work done in Germany when he was stationed there in the service. I also question whether the hands were removed to hide the ID of the victim. This is a distinctive guy: at 6’5”, 220 lbs., flat head syndrome, crew cut. If they really wanted to hide the identity of the victim they would have done a better job hiding/disposing of the body. Maybe the reason they cut off the hands wasn’t to prevent or delay identification, but to prove that the job was done?? A possible scenario for the strangling/shooting: victim in passenger seat of car with driver and 2nd perp in back seat (the use of the car will make it more difficult for the victim to fight back). The perp in back tries to strangle the victim “Godfather” style with a garrote, but the victim fights back, forcing the perpetrators to use the 22, firing 2 shots to the back of the victim’s head. Anyway…glad that this is in the hands of the forensic genealogists and look forward to learning his identity!

    What an intriguing case…thank you for bringing it to us!
    I have a couple of thoughts…
    The teeth are an interesting clue. It reminds me of the Sumter County Does. The male Doe, later identified as Paul Freund, had extensive and unique dental work. Authorities even reached out to the ADA to get help identifying where the dental work might have been done. It ended up that Freund had the dental work done in Germany when he was stationed there in the service.
    I also question whether the hands were removed to hide the ID of the victim. This is a distinctive guy: at 6’5”, 220 lbs., flat head syndrome, crew cut. If they really wanted to hide the identity of the victim they would have done a better job hiding/disposing of the body. Maybe the reason they cut off the hands wasn’t to prevent or delay identification, but to prove that the job was done??
    A possible scenario for the strangling/shooting: victim in passenger seat of car with driver and 2nd perp in back seat (the use of the car will make it more difficult for the victim to fight back). The perp in back tries to strangle the victim “Godfather” style with a garrote, but the victim fights back, forcing the perpetrators to use the 22, firing 2 shots to the back of the victim’s head.
    Anyway…glad that this is in the hands of the forensic genealogists and look forward to learning his identity!

  • Lost
    Lost Mmmmmm
    Lou, not as silly as sending ur convicts to a paradise. 😁

    Lou, not as silly as sending ur convicts to a paradise. 😁

  • Ashley
    Ashley Wisconsin
    Cases like these frustrate the heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck out of me!!! There are some great theories in these comments and it makes me wanna just kick the police station door down and be like TELL ME WHAT YOU HAVE. This is what I get for having a hate-not-knowing-the-answer complex and being a super fan of true crime. Lol. This is a great episode, and I'd love to (and pardon my masochism) hear more one-off episode mysteries like this where we can just talk theories, clues, suspicions, all day long!

    Cases like these frustrate the heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck out of me!!! There are some great theories in these comments and it makes me wanna just kick the police station door down and be like TELL ME WHAT YOU HAVE. This is what I get for having a hate-not-knowing-the-answer complex and being a super fan of true crime. Lol.

    This is a great episode, and I'd love to (and pardon my masochism) hear more one-off episode mysteries like this where we can just talk theories, clues, suspicions, all day long!

  • KellyR
    KellyR Kcmo
    My first thought was Italian. Any mafia activity i the area?

    My first thought was Italian. Any mafia activity i the area?

  • Mitch
    Mitch Tampa
    Sounds like a great story for “The Americans” if they ever revive the show! Definitely an undercover Soviet agent that needed to go away! Seriously, I think the barn was spur of the moment. Could have even happened in the daytime. Easy to pull into the barn, get the body out of the trunk, cover it up and get back to I75 and out of the state. Also points to a single suspect, hard to move a big guy without help, but possible to push out of a car or trunk solo.

    Sounds like a great story for “The Americans” if they ever revive the show! Definitely an undercover Soviet agent that needed to go away!

    Seriously, I think the barn was spur of the moment. Could have even happened in the daytime. Easy to pull into the barn, get the body out of the trunk, cover it up and get back to I75 and out of the state. Also points to a single suspect, hard to move a big guy without help, but possible to push out of a car or trunk solo.

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